Rumor floating around..

[Santheb]

Tony K reported on his radio show today that a deal is in the works with the Jets involving John Abraham and Patrick Ramsey. It's a rumor..but it's a good rumor :) He didn't specify any other players.

[PennSkinsFan]

I can't picture this. Abraham would bust the crap out of our already busted cap.

[Redskinfan28]

Tony K reported on his radio show today that a deal is in the works with the Jets involving John Abraham and Patrick Ramsey. It's a rumor..but it's a good rumor :) He didn't specify any other players.

He is referring to this article:

http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1140587263176640.xml&coll=1

Tony K has no insider knowledge - in fact, we probably know things about trades before he does.

[akhhorus]

Don't buy it. It would be next to impossible with the cap considerations. And if the Jets are willing to take a package headlined by Ramsey for John Abraham; then they should be folded as a franchise.

PFT did report that the Skins are talking to the Ravens about Ray Lewis though....

[The Skinsinator]

I can't picture this. Abraham would bust the crap out of our already busted cap.That's what I'm thinking as well. But, nobody even knows what the cap will be. If we wanted him bad enough, we could probably get him. I do not want to give up our 2nd rounder this year whatsoever for him however. That pick in itself could find a player just as good as Abe and a helluva lot cheaper.

[smoak]

Yeah and the Ravens announced today that they are not trading Lewis, which I expected. It is a hard sell to your fan base to get rid of a Super Bowl winning leader and fan favorite.

Plus, the Skins are definitely not going after Abraham without a new CBA. As Akh said, it'll be nearly impossible.

[The Skinsinator]

Yeah and the Ravens announced today that they are not trading Lewis, which I expected. It is a hard sell to your fan base to get rid of a Super Bowl winning leader and fan favorite.Good luck signing him though. He wants the farm and some. He is not worth close to what he wants, not even remotely close. Keep him and make the fans happy while Ray Ray flaps his wings for them. It's not gonna help your overall team a ton.

[chrisbcbu]

The only way we can make this work is if our FO has everything in place cutting/restructuring players. And if thats the case perhaps we are not that bad after all.

I just find it funny that the media comes out and says it would be impossible for us to get any new FA's then the next day say we are close to aquiring Abraham.

[smoak]

Good luck signing him though. He wants the farm and some. He is not worth close to what he wants, not even remotely close. Keep him and make the fans happy while Ray Ray flaps his wings for them. It's not gonna help your overall team a ton.


Yeah, supposedly what Lewis is asking for is insane (haven't read it myself), but I think the Ravens should and will play hard ball. I am so tired of pro athletes signing contracts with tons of gauranteed up front money, only to have them turn around and whine down the road. Owners need to sset an expectation that holdouts will not be tolerated and players need to change the ground rules at the CBA if they are unhappy.

[S.Taylor36]

Don't buy it. It would be next to impossible with the cap considerations. And if the Jets are willing to take a package headlined by Ramsey for John Abraham; then they should be folded as a franchise.

PFT did report that the Skins are talking to the Ravens about Ray Lewis though....

I think you'll hear alot about Ramsey to the Jets talk. Whether or not it gets us Abraham will be interesting. I'm not sure how'd we be able to pull that off but the Jets have engaged in discussion with the Redskins about Ramsey.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/jets/ny-spjets224636835feb22,0,4377264.story?coll=ny-jets-print

I also heard about the rumor that the Redskins have reportedly made an offer for Ray Lewis.
The Ravens declined. A rumor is going around about interest from the Cowboys, but profootballtalk.com reports it is false. I wonder what the package was?

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

Good luck signing him though. He wants the farm and some. He is not worth close to what he wants, not even remotely close. Keep him and make the fans happy while Ray Ray flaps his wings for them. It's not gonna help your overall team a ton.
i would probably vomit if ray lewis were to become a redskin.

regarding the ram-abe trade, it just wouldnt work. for cap reason and we'd have to sweeten the pot even if we did have the cap space. its not like we dont have a ton of picks to trade away.

[smoak]

I think you'll hear alot about Ramsey to the Jets talk. Whether or not it gets us Abraham will be interesting. I'm not sure how'd we be able to pull that off but the Jets have engaged in discussion with the Redskins about Ramsey.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/jets/ny-spjets224636835feb22,0,4377264.story?coll=ny-jets-print

I also heard about the rumor that the Redskins have reportedly made an offer for Ray Lewis.
The Ravens declined. A rumor is going around about interest from the Cowboys, but profootballtalk.com reports it is false. I wonder what the package was?

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

NY would be the worst place for a guy like Ramsey IMO. HE is a good QB who seems to melt under the spotlight and pressure. Where would he be more scrutinized than NY.

[The Skinsinator]

The only way we can make this work is if our FO has everything in place cutting/restructuring players. And if thats the case perhaps we are not that bad after all.

I just find it funny that the media comes out and says it would be impossible for us to get any new FA's then the next day say we are close to aquiring Abraham.I really think the fo knows something about the cba, cap, and all that fun stuff that we don't. Imagine that huh? There were 2 relatively credible sources stating Washington's interest in him. NY desperately needs a qb and we need a new end. Not buying into it but it does hold logic.

[The Skinsinator]

NY would be the worst place for a guy like Ramsey IMO. HE is a good QB who seems to melt under the spotlight and pressure. Where would he be more scrutinized than NY.Not only that, but he would have Spurrier nightmares all over again. Their oline stinks and Ram wouldn't fit in well there. Ram needs a team with a great passing blocking line to really smell success imo. Those are few and far between currently in the nfl.

[Redskinfan28]

Ray was great, but now he is an aging LB who is often injured.

[S.Taylor36]

NY would be the worst place for a guy like Ramsey IMO. HE is a good QB who seems to melt under the spotlight and pressure. Where would he be more scrutinized than NY.

This might be true, but there are zero expectations for the Jets this year and maybe for a few years. They are dismantling the team. Ramsey might be able to play there. I think the Jets want a young QB to get them threw the tough seasons and then they might draft a Jay Cutler in the draft and groom him.

[MWballer]

I dont want Abraham or Lewis I just want to start new when we trade Ramsey for hopefully a first day draft pick.

[The Skinsinator]

This might be true, but there are zero expectations for the Jets this year and maybe for a few years. They are dismantling the team. Ramsey might be able to play there. I think the Jets want a young QB to get them threw the tough seasons and then they might draft a Jay Cutler in the draft and groom him.They're targeting Cutler with their 4th pick and want Ramsey or Kitna their also. Ramsey needs to take care of himself before thinking of "grooming" any youngster. Rather than Abe, I would rather get a pick still. Ram for a 3rd sounds great but we'll see about that.

[GolfFreak]

I also heard about the rumor that the Redskins have reportedly made an offer for Ray Lewis.

I find that pretty shocking. Didn't we learn our lesson in 2000 when we signed all those over the hill players???

I could see a Ramsey for Abrahm deal working out -- we would certainly sign him to a long term deal with his 2006 and 2007 cap numbers being fairly low.

[The Skinsinator]

I will fall to the floor dead if Ray Lewis a Redskin next season. You think Lavar is expensive, Ray Ray will be more. He is still very good, but not as good as a few years back contrary to what he may think. We don't need linebackers and we certainly don't need Ray Lewis.

[S.Taylor36]

They're targeting Cutler with their 4th pick and want Ramsey or Kitna their also. Ramsey needs to take care of himself before thinking of "grooming" any youngster. Rather than Abe, I would rather get a pick still. Ram for a 3rd sounds great but we'll see about that.

Obviously he wouldn't go there thinking he'd be "grooming" anyone. But if the Jets were to take Ramsey and then draft Cutler, thats what he'd be doing. In that situation Ramsey would have to hope for a Drew Brees story.

I'd take a 3rd rounder for Ramsey, but Abraham sounds so sexy it's hard not to want him if we could pull it off. Abraham would make our D so scary.

[Redskin4Life]

Not only that, but he would have Spurrier nightmares all over again. Their oline stinks and Ram wouldn't fit in well there. Ram needs a team with a great passing blocking line to really smell success imo. Those are few and far between currently in the nfl.
All the ones that do, don't need a QB cause their starters and backups are all healthy....

[S.Taylor36]

I will fall to the floor dead if Ray Lewis a Redskin next season. You think Lavar is expensive, Ray Ray will be more. He is still very good, but not as good as a few years back contrary to what he may think. We don't need linebackers and we certainly don't need Ray Lewis.

I agree. No Ray Lewis. He makes alot of money and wants more. If we were getting the Ray Lewis from 3 years ago, I'd say get him, but he's not the same player. I'd rather keep Lavar.

[vabeach_skinsfan]

Tony K reported on his radio show today that a deal is in the works with the Jets involving John Abraham and Patrick Ramsey. It's a rumor..but it's a good rumor :) He didn't specify any other players.

I just heard that same rumor. But Abraham just got tagged as a franshise player???

[The Skinsinator]

All the ones that do, don't need a QB cause their starters and backups are all healthy....True, but Ramsey other than the NY game last season cracks historically under pressure. I was at training camp and can attest how Brunell looked better than Ram. Thus, if a team wants him they better give him plenty of time to throw or they going to regret it. If the Jets want Ram give him up. Give us something of good value in return however.

[greatest2]

I just heard that same rumor. But Abraham just got tagged as a franshise player???

They could do what we did with Champ.... But i seriously doubt that this deal will go through, besides the horriable cap situation it would probably put us in, is his character what Joe Joe wants????

I mean our team fought to win 5 straight, went though injury's, and there is treamendous heart there. Does Abe have that, will he always put everythin' on the line???/

I just don't think it will happen

[The Skinsinator]

I just heard that same rumor. But Abraham just got tagged as a franshise player???Yes he did, but there are ways to work around that. From what I've heard, they did that to position themselves at an advantage to deal him. They can't afford him as their cap sucks and his hit is over 8 million.

[whistleandthumb]

I don't know how we afford Abraham, a marquee WR, AND sign draft picks, but if anyone can figure it out, it's Snyder and Co.

The Jets should have their heads examined for even entertaining a straight up trade of Abe for Ram. Wow...

[Santheb]

I dont want Abraham or Lewis I just want to start new when we trade Ramsey for hopefully a first day draft pick.

Did this really need to be posted four times in a row?

[whistleandthumb]

Did this really need to be posted four times in a row?
Clearly, his point needed four times more emphasis! :)

[ConradCountry]

These aticles, even though they ar erumors, only go to show that LaVaris no longer going to be here.

[chrisbcbu]

There is no way Gibbs will let Ray Lewis on this team. Why would he want someone who murdered someone. That doesnt sound like a Gibbs guy to me.

[S.Taylor36]

These aticles, even though they ar erumors, only go to show that LaVaris no longer going to be here.

These articles are just that...rumors. I see Lavar being here next year still.

[LATrueRedskin]

Ah, offseason......I love rumors. :)

Not going to happen for cap reasons like akh said, but it's fun to think of the possibilities.

[danny's stogie]

Plus, the Skins are definitely not going after Abraham without a new CBA. As Akh said, it'll be nearly impossible.

Well the good news is that if an Abraham trade is made it's a telltale sign that a new CBA will in fact be put in place and that the Skins are in the clear.

[whitskins]

Well the good news is that if an Abraham trade is made it's a telltale sign that a new CBA will in fact be put in place and that the Skins are in the clear.

Yes, I'm actually hoping that the rumors are true because that would imply that the Skins are confident the CBA and cap will not be an issue for them next year.

And if the CBA is signed we could afford Abraham and he would add a dominant element to our defense. I know some here don't like him or question his heart, but he would be a monster on our defense and make this unit easily one of the three best in the NFL.

[MWballer]

Did this really need to be posted four times in a row?

My computer was acting up!

[RedskinsDave]

Is Terry Bradway tied up in a room somewhere waiting for his head to explode? He takes Redskins for pennies on the dollar. I am still mad he's not GM. ;)

[danny's stogie]

Yes, I'm actually hoping that the rumors are true because that would imply that the Skins are confident the CBA and cap will not be an issue for them next year.

And if the CBA is signed we could afford Abraham and he would add a dominant element to our defense. I know some here don't like him or question his heart, but he would be a monster on our defense and make this unit easily one of the three best in the NFL.

You know, I also read that the whole sitting out a playoff game because he didn't want to risk a big contract reports were completely exaggerated. Abraham was pretty injured and it would have been nothing short of a miracle if he actually made it on the field in any sort of productive capacity. I don't question Abe's heart, I question his ability. I've seen teams in the past run right at him and he doesn't respond well to that. It seems to frustrate him and throw him off his game. However, I'd still probably sign him.

[smoak]

This might be true, but there are zero expectations for the Jets this year and maybe for a few years. They are dismantling the team. Ramsey might be able to play there. I think the Jets want a young QB to get them threw the tough seasons and then they might draft a Jay Cutler in the draft and groom him.

Even when NY teams are at their worst, most aathletes will tell you it is harder to play there than any where else. I think P Ram would be better served somewhere else, but I really have no facts to back it up. He could go there and thrive.

[HanburgerBum]

Ray was great, but now he is an aging LB who is often injured.


Sort of remind one of Lavar doesn't he? If you don't want Ray Lewis for those reasons, I hope you won't expect much in return if the Skins trade Arrington.

[HanburgerBum]

Let's assume that the Jets franchised Abraham for the purpose of trading him, and let's further assume that the CBA will be extended and that the Redskins are interested in trading for him. It is still difficult to see how the deal can get done.

Abraham will be guaranteed over 8 million this season with the franchise tag. So, what is his incentive to sign a long term deal with any team unless the signing bonus is astronomical (say 15-20 million range)? I don't see how the Skins can afford that capwise. On top of that, will such an enormous bonus upset the chemistry of the team? How will current star players (Portis, Washington, Griffin, Moss, Samuels, Jansen, Thomas, Springs, etc) feel about it? And, if the Skins trade for Abraham's rights without signing him to a long-term deal, they would be on the hook for his franchised salary this season with the prospect of having to franchise him again next year. That would seem to be stupid on the team's part, and we all know that the Joe Gibbs FO has been far from it.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

I heard this, this morning I think it would be great. But, what is it going to cost us. I don't want to give up anymore #1 draft picks.

[CNYSkinFan]

These aticles, even though they ar erumors, only go to show that LaVaris no longer going to be here.
CC you are like the old lady seeing the virgin Mary in an underpass water stain.....You want to see it so bad that you actually believe it.

Lavar will be here and if he is not these articles are no proof he will not be.

[RedskinsDave]

CC you are like the old lady seeing the virgin Mary in an underpass water stain.....You want to see it so bad that you actually believe it.

Lavar will be here and if he is not these articles are no proof he will not be.

I heard from these people that Lavar is gone:

http://www.startime.com/virginmary/virginmary2faceSundaymornin.jpg

[akhhorus]

I heard from these people that Lavar is gone:

http://www.startime.com/virginmary/virginmary2faceSundaymornin.jpg

Who's the Patron Saint of Overpaid Linebackers?

[smoak]

Let's assume that the Jets franchised Abraham for the purpose of trading him, and let's further assume that the CBA will be extended and that the Redskins are interested in trading for him. It is still difficult to see how the deal can get done.

Abraham will be guaranteed over 8 million this season with the franchise tag. So, what is his incentive to sign a long term deal with any team unless the signing bonus is astronomical (say 15-20 million range)? I don't see how the Skins can afford that capwise. On top of that, will such an enormous bonus upset the chemistry of the team? How will current star players (Portis, Washington, Griffin, Moss, Samuels, Jansen, Thomas, Springs, etc) feel about it? And, if the Skins trade for Abraham's rights without signing him to a long-term deal, they would be on the hook for his franchised salary this season with the prospect of having to franchise him again next year. That would seem to be stupid on the team's part, and we all know that the Joe Gibbs FO has been far from it.

If a new CBA is in place, then there is no telling what the cap will be (assuming a new deal is effective immediately). We'd have to see that new deal or this is all just speculation.

And I still do not want Abraham based on the fact that he was medically cleared, but stat out of a playoff game.

[smoak]

There is no way Gibbs will let Ray Lewis on this team. Why would he want someone who murdered someone. That doesnt sound like a Gibbs guy to me.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! All Lewis did was interefer in the investigation of a double homicide. there is no evidence he actually stabbed either victim or if he did that any of his stab would led to their death.

:rolleyes:

[RedskinsDave]

Who's the Patron Saint of Overpaid Linebackers?

Isn't it St. Zachary of Miami?

[CNYSkinFan]

I heard from these people that Lavar is gone:

http://www.startime.com/virginmary/virginmary2faceSundaymornin.jpg

I was in Florida when that was going on. What a bunch of nutjobs.

[RedskinsDave]

I was in Florida when that was going on. What a bunch of nutjobs.

Some kid splashed something on it a while back and I think it's gone.

[BigCountry]

Is it me or are teams starting to move like they know something about the CBA?

[EberKain]

PFT did report that the Skins are talking to the Ravens about Ray Lewis though....

Remember the older MLB named Barrow, I dont think were going after another old MLB for another 10 years or so.

[MONK_in_HOF]

i would probably vomit if ray lewis were to become a redskin.

The same goes for me except you can remove probably and insert definitely. I would be furious if we were the team to give Ray his big payday in the waning years of his career.

[whitskins]

The same goes for me except you can remove probably and insert definitely. I would be furious if we were the team to give Ray his big payday in the waning years of his career.

He already got the big payday, he signed a contract I believe two years ago for a 19 million dollar bonus. The rumors are that he wants more but that's almost too absurd to believe, I think he's jealous of guys like Ed Reed on the Ravens who have stolen the spotlight from him.

If the Skins traded for him then the Ravens would still be on the hook for his signing bonus, while we pay him his base salaries, which would probably be a good value for him if he stays healthy. Still, I'd rather keep Lemar in the middle (he had an amazing season that was a bit overlooked I think) and either find a way to keep Lavar or sign Witherspoon to replace him.

[MONK_in_HOF]

He already got the big payday, he signed a contract I believe two years ago for a 19 million dollar bonus. The rumors are that he wants more but that's almost too absurd to believe, I think he's jealous of guys like Ed Reed on the Ravens who have stolen the spotlight from him.

If the Skins traded for him then the Ravens would still be on the hook for his signing bonus, while we pay him his base salaries, which would probably be a good value for him if he stays healthy. Still, I'd rather keep Lemar in the middle (he had an amazing season that was a bit overlooked I think) and either find a way to keep Lavar or sign Witherspoon to replace him.

I agree, but like you said, apparently it wasn't big enough for Ray. If we did get Ray and only had to pay his base salary and didn't increase his current deal in any way I think he would either holdout or just be a huge cancer.

[santanadasavior]

I would take the Abraham for Ramsey any day. I was hoping to get a 3rd rounder or something but this sounds great.

[FanFromArizona]

I think you'll hear alot about Ramsey to the Jets talk. Whether or not it gets us Abraham will be interesting. I'm not sure how'd we be able to pull that off but the Jets have engaged in discussion with the Redskins about Ramsey.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/jets/ny-spjets224636835feb22,0,4377264.story?coll=ny-jets-print



From that URL, I found the following funny:

"The Jets currently are more than $25 million over the cap but easily could recoup close to $30 million in cap space by gutting the offensive line, releasing cornerback Ty Law and reworking contracts for receiver Laveranues Coles, running back Curtis Martin, defensive end Shaun Ellis and defensive tackle Dewayne Robertson, among others."

:lol1: :jetsuk:

[ShaggySkins]

I'm really not too big on Abraham but if we could get him for something cheap such as Ramsey without having to give up any high picks I would be for it. I'm just not sure how it would affect our cap in the coming years.

[GoDannyBoy]

No more big names! Coles showed what big names want and that is money. Once they get paid who knows if they are going to show up.

Find another guy flying under the radar like Griffen or Washington and give them a chance. That and a few draft picks and we will be doing better than a couple of "big names".

[RicFlairOne]

I find that pretty shocking. Didn't we learn our lesson in 2000 when we signed all those over the hill players???

I could see a Ramsey for Abrahm deal working out -- we would certainly sign him to a long term deal with his 2006 and 2007 cap numbers being fairly low.

Thank you - my thoughts exactly. I have emailed PFT and asked them the scoop. They said that the Skins made a huge offer (I assume they were talking about Lavar / Ramsey/ or both) and the Ravens declined. We touched on Lewis last night. Don't need him and don't want him !!

[GoDannyBoy]

Although I do have to say that all the rumors this time of year are a lot of fun. All the speculating and so on.

It is much better now that we are winning!

[santanadasavior]

Although I do have to say that all the rumors this time of year are a lot of fun. All the speculating and so on.

It is much better now that we are winning!

I have to second that.

[ConradCountry]

CC you are like the old lady seeing the virgin Mary in an underpass water stain.....You want to see it so bad that you actually believe it.

Lavar will be here and if he is not these articles are no proof he will not be.

I like the ananlogy, I just don't see how he can be kept. His deal hinders the Skins for years to come on what may or may not be his return to form.

I would rather have John Abraham here then LaVar Arrington at this point.

[ConradCountry]

Say No to Ray Lewis, he strike me as one of those players that is aging and losing a step but can't come to grips with it and is lashing out.

[The Iceman]

I like the ananlogy, I just don't see how he can be kept. His deal hinders the Skins for years to come on what may or may not be his return to form.

I would rather have John Abraham here then LaVar Arrington at this point.
This is insane. Give me a guy like Lavar any day over Abraham. How can Redskins fans turn their backs on Lavar? I cannot do it. He is one of the longest tenured Redskins and was brought in the same draft class as Chris Samuels.....Who by the way went through a two year slump before returning to the pro bowl.

I don't even know what to say to this type of lunacy. Lavar is a Redskin. Why can we not just hope it works out for him? Washington, Arrington, Marshall..... Sounds like a nice LB corps to me.

[ConradCountry]

This is insane. Give me a guy like Lavar any day over Abraham. How can Redskins fans turn their backs on Lavar? I cannot do it. He is one of the longest tenured Redskins and was brought in the same draft class as Chris Samuels.....Who by the way went through a two year slump before returning to the pro bowl.

I don't even know what to say to this type of lunacy. Lavar is a Redskin. Why can we not just hope it works out for him? Washington, Arrington, Marshall..... Sounds like a nice LB corps to me.

I would love to see LaVar back in a Skins uniform, but its all about the money.

LaVar in 79 career games has 396 tackles, 22.5 sacks, 3 ints.

Abraham in 73 career games has 278 tackles, 53.5 sacks, O ints.

Abraham is a better player he is more dominant at a position that we need. This defense was scary without LaVar, now imagine that they got a consitent 10 sack a year pass rush.

[akhhorus]

I would love to see LaVar back in a Skins uniform, but its all about the money.

LaVar in 79 career games has 396 tackles, 22.5 sacks, 3 ints.

Abraham in 73 career games has 278 tackles, 53.5 sacks, O ints.

Abraham is a better player he is more dominant at a position that we need. This defense was scary without LaVar, now imagine that they got a consitent 10 sack a year pass rush.

But its not just about the money, Lavar never stops whining, Lavar barely does anything on the field and Lavar is the highest paid redskin. He hasn't had a good year since Marvin Lewis left and nothing is his fault, its Gibbs' fault, its his agents' fault, its Gregg Williams' fault. Lavar is not worth keeping around anymore.

[ConradCountry]

But its not just about the money, Lavar never stops whining, Lavar barely does anything on the field and Lavar is the highest paid redskin. He hasn't had a good year since Marvin Lewis left and nothing is his fault, its Gibbs' fault, its his agents' fault, its Gregg Williams' fault. Lavar is not worth keeping around anymore.

Exactly, he has worn out his welcome and his salary is stupid.

[santanadasavior]

Exactly, he has worn out his welcome and his salary is stupid.

I agree that his salary is stupid but I don't agree with letting this guy go. He hasn't had a good year in 2 years becuase he was injured and was coming off of injury. He is an incredible athlete and I think he realized the things that are important to him in the playoffs this year. I know this may not be the way he feels but he looked so happy and so glad to be a part of the team after the Tampa win. I understand that a lot of people would be happy in that circumstance but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I think that making the playoffs put him in a position where he came back down to earth and realized what the HFL was all about. He got lost in the hype for a while and I see him maturing. I think that letting him go would be a mistake because he will be great wherever he goes and we will not get a lot for him based on these last few seasons. If we keep him he will rise in his career and become the Redskin that we all used to love.

[akhhorus]

I agree that his salary is stupid but I don't agree with letting this guy go. He hasn't had a good year in 2 years becuase he was injured and was coming off of injury.

Come on, again with the injury excuse. Lavar had a minor knee injury and there's no reason it should take him 2 years to recover from it. He didn't have that good a year in 03 when he was "healthy". If he is truly still injured two years after getting hurt, then he's completely finished and should be dumped. If he's healthy and just "sucks", then the Skins should still dump him.

[whitskins]

I agree that his salary is stupid but I don't agree with letting this guy go. He hasn't had a good year in 2 years becuase he was injured and was coming off of injury. He is an incredible athlete and I think he realized the things that are important to him in the playoffs this year. I know this may not be the way he feels but he looked so happy and so glad to be a part of the team after the Tampa win. I understand that a lot of people would be happy in that circumstance but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I think that making the playoffs put him in a position where he came back down to earth and realized what the HFL was all about. He got lost in the hype for a while and I see him maturing. I think that letting him go would be a mistake because he will be great wherever he goes and we will not get a lot for him based on these last few seasons. If we keep him he will rise in his career and become the Redskin that we all used to love.

If Lavar was such a phenomenal athlete it wouldn't have taken him two years to fully recooperate from his knee injury. If any other player on this team had taken 2 years to recover from that injury then they would be eaten alive by the fans.

I think what we saw last year from Lavar is about what we'll get from here on out if we keep him. A solid linebacker who makes the occasional nice play, but disappears in games as well. He is not what he once was physically, that is obvious. Guys have come back from torn ACLs faster than he did from his knee injury.

[DoGood]

If Lavar was such a phenomenal athlete it wouldn't have taken him two years to fully recooperate from his knee injury. If any other player on this team had taken 2 years to recover from that injury then they would be eaten alive by the fans.

I think what we saw last year from Lavar is about what we'll get from here on out if we keep him. A solid linebacker who makes the occasional nice play, but disappears in games as well. He is not what he once was physically, that is obvious. Guys have come back from torn ACLs faster than he did from his knee injury.

I don't know why you are questioning the fact that LaVar is in fact a phenomenal athlete. When healthy, LaVar was the best athlete on this team before Sean Taylor came along. But that doesn't diminish LA's physical ability at all. His rehabilitation has been compounded by a new defensive coordinator as well as a very peculiar voyage back into a starting role. The man hadn't really played a meaningful game for a whole year. How quickly we forget the amazing player that LaVar was and is.

[DoGood]

Come on, again with the injury excuse. Lavar had a minor knee injury and there's no reason it should take him 2 years to recover from it. He didn't have that good a year in 03 when he was "healthy". If he is truly still injured two years after getting hurt, then he's completely finished and should be dumped. If he's healthy and just "sucks", then the Skins should still dump him.

Did anyone have a good year in 2003? Last time I checked, Spurrier didn't even know his defensive players names. That pretty much tells how the defensive was neglected. Who was our defensive coordinator in '03? I don't remember.

[whitskins]

I don't know why you are questioning the fact that LaVar is in fact a phenomenal athlete. When healthy, LaVar was the best athlete on this team before Sean Taylor came along. But that doesn't diminish LA's physical ability at all. His rehabilitation has been compounded by a new defensive coordinator as well as a very peculiar voyage back into a starting role. The man hadn't really played a meaningful game for a whole year. How quickly we forget the amazing player that LaVar was and is.

When Lavar WAS healthy he WAS a phenomenal athlete. Apparently he hasn't been healthy for two years because of a minor knee injury. If that is the case then he is no longer a phenomenal athlete because top flight athletes don't take two years to recover from a minor knee injury.

What does a new defensive coordinator have to do with Lavar's rehab? I don't see how that has any influence on Lavar's physical recovery. And his voyage back to the starting lineup was rocky because physically he was still recovering from his tweaked knee that occured over a year ago at that point. When Lavar was initially injured the prognosis was a few weeks, it took well over a year and when he finally did return to the lineup full time he was clearly not the player he once was, which is why he was only used on two downs and almost never asked to rush the passer (and when he was he was routinely blocked by RBs).

I'm not forgetting the great player that Lavar was, but the past tense has nothing to do with the situation right now, since his injury has obviously slowed him as a player. Lavar was not amazing at any point last year, he was very serviceable, sometimes strong, other times invisible. He's still a good option at WLB if he can provide some salary flexibility, otherwise he's bloating the hell out of our cap. His past success does not render his current struggles and outrageous salary moot, and it also has no bearing on whether or not he is still a phenomenal athlete.

[akhhorus]

I don't know why you are questioning the fact that LaVar is in fact a phenomenal athlete. When healthy, LaVar was the best athlete on this team before Sean Taylor came along. But that doesn't diminish LA's physical ability at all. His rehabilitation has been compounded by a new defensive coordinator as well as a very peculiar voyage back into a starting role. The man hadn't really played a meaningful game for a whole year. How quickly we forget the amazing player that LaVar was and is.

Oh please! Gregg Williams is to blame for Lavar's "slow rehab"? LMAO. He's healthy. There is no way he's not recovered from his knee injury unless he's completely finished as an NFL player. Yes, Lavar was a fantastic athlete, but he looks done as a player now. And he refuses to play the way his coach is telling him to, and when they crack down on him, Lavar goes whining to the press. On top of that, he's the most highly paid redskins and does nothing for this team.

Did anyone have a good year in 2003? Last time I checked, Spurrier didn't even know his defensive players names. That pretty much tells how the defensive was neglected. Who was our defensive coordinator in '03? I don't remember.

Yeah, it was Spurrier's fault he wasn't that good in 03. And what was Lavar's excuse last year? Spurrier was calling him from South Carolina to mentally throw him off?

[MONK_in_HOF]

When Lavar WAS healthy he WAS a phenomenal athlete. Apparently he hasn't been healthy for two years because of a minor knee injury. If that is the case then he is no longer a phenomenal athlete because top flight athletes don't take two years to recover from a minor knee injury.

What does a new defensive coordinator have to do with Lavar's rehab? I don't see how that has any influence on Lavar's physical recovery. And his voyage back to the starting lineup was rocky because physically he was still recovering from his tweaked knee that occured over a year ago at that point. When Lavar was initially injured the prognosis was a few weeks, it took well over a year and when he finally did return to the lineup full time he was clearly not the player he once was, which is why he was only used on two downs and almost never asked to rush the passer (and when he was he was routinely blocked by RBs).

I'm not forgetting the great player that Lavar was, but the past tense has nothing to do with the situation right now, since his injury has obviously slowed him as a player. Lavar was not amazing at any point last year, he was very serviceable, sometimes strong, other times invisible. He's still a good option at WLB if he can provide some salary flexibility, otherwise he's bloating the hell out of our cap. His past success does not render his current struggles and outrageous salary moot, and it also has no bearing on whether or not he is still a phenomenal athlete.

Once again, I couldn't agree more with all of what you have said regarding this situation. As for the bolded part. Here is a link on the initial prognosis. Lavar did NOT tear his ACL or anything near that severe. I think it would be very troubling if he in fact hadn't recovered yet, regardless if he tweaked the injury later on. Especially given his salary.Link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45501-2004Sep23.html) I think many fans have far too strong of a personal attachment to Lavar and they are willing to support him regardless of what has happened over the past 3 years or how it affects the Redskins as a team.

[DoGood]

Once again, I couldn't agree more with all of what you have said regarding this situation. As for the bolded part. Here is a link on the initial prognosis. Lavar did NOT tear his ACL or anything near that severe. I think it would be very troubling if he in fact hadn't recovered yet, regardless if he tweaked the injury later on. Especially given his salary.Link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45501-2004Sep23.html) I think many fans have far too strong of a personal attachment to Lavar and they are willing to support him regardless of what has happened over the past 3 years or how it affects the Redskins as a team.

However strongly some of us support him including myself, I can't see past his HUGE contract. My ideal situation would be for him to stay, heal, and somehow reduce his enormous weight around the Washington Redskins' neck.

[MONK_in_HOF]

However strongly some of us support him including myself, I can't see past his HUGE contract. My ideal situation would be for him to stay, heal, and somehow reduce his enormous weight around the Washington Redskins' neck.

Hey, I really have nothing personal against Lavar. I wasn't thrilled with the interview he did or the timing. I was even less thrilled with him blaming the tweaking of his injury on Gibbs and his staff after admitting a few months prior it was his fault b/c he forced his way on the field.

Having said that I wouldn't mind Arrington staying if he got in shape, fell into line, and most importantly got paid about 1/6th of what he is currently owed. I just don't see any way that happens. But for people to claim that he has been a great player recently or to make excuses for why he hasn't been makes no sense to me. I am just glad that Gibbs and his staff won't look at it from that perspective.

[santanadasavior]

However strongly some of us support him including myself, I can't see past his HUGE contract. My ideal situation would be for him to stay, heal, and somehow reduce his enormous weight around the Washington Redskins' neck.

I agree. He was the face of our team through those tough seasons. The nice guy in me wants him to stay around for the good seasons. I would just feel bad to be successful without him.

[skins111111]

at 23 mill over the cap we will be pretty low profile..............a poession WR is a must and debth at O-Line.............Joe J and the draft

a little tweaking and we will be just fine

[HanburgerBum]

This is insane. Give me a guy like Lavar any day over Abraham. How can Redskins fans turn their backs on Lavar? I cannot do it. He is one of the longest tenured Redskins and was brought in the same draft class as Chris Samuels.....Who by the way went through a two year slump before returning to the pro bowl.

I don't even know what to say to this type of lunacy. Lavar is a Redskin. Why can we not just hope it works out for him? Washington, Arrington, Marshall..... Sounds like a nice LB corps to me.


You want to know how Redskins fans can turn their backs on Lavar. Here is one fan to tell you how. In fact, I don't understand why any Redskins fan still support him.

Lavar is the most over-paid player in Redskins history. He was a great physical talent (doubtful whether he still is), but he managed to waste all that by refusing to play within defensive schemes. As a result, he was an under-achieving, over-rated player.

From his performance in 2005, it is unclear that he would ever become a player who will justify his pay. Despite that, I would have given him the benefit of the doubt if he kept his mouth shut and went about his business. But, his whining (and that absurd grievance) last year was just too much to take.

There is not a single coach on the staff who doesn't want to get rid of Lavar. And, I seriously doubt he has many teammates who wish to have him around. The players are the first to know who is a phony and not worth his paycheck.

If it didn't cost 12 million in cap room to part comapny with Lavar, he would have been long gone by now. He has become an albatross around the Skins necks, and I accept the fact that we fans just have to continue to put up with him. But, I don't want one more beep out of his mouth.

[IowaSkinsFan]

I can't picture this. Abraham would bust the crap out of our already busted cap.

Are you talking about his current deal or a future deal with us?

[ConradCountry]

We give Abraham a deal like Moss small in the first year and then grows from their. We release Arrington take the hit like we did with Coles and everything is fine.

[santanadasavior]

We give Abraham a deal like Moss small in the first year and then grows from their. We release Arrington take the hit like we did with Coles and everything is fine.

I would agree but Abraham doesn't want a small contract at all. He wants a big one from day one and is firm in his ways.

[chad101]

I don't know how we afford Abraham, a marquee WR, AND sign draft picks, but if anyone can figure it out, it's Snyder and Co.

The Jets should have their heads examined for even entertaining a straight up trade of Abe for Ram. Wow...

Where have you seen it written as a straight up deal?

The article says "Rumors have persisted that the Jets could get Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers or Redskins quarterback Patrick Ramsey in a trade involving Abraham".

While Abe for Rivers straight up would be entertained I would not think the same holds true for Ramsey.

[dj_stouty]

Where have you seen it written as a straight up deal?

The article says "Rumors have persisted that the Jets could get Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers or Redskins quarterback Patrick Ramsey in a trade involving Abraham".

While Abe for Rivers straight up would be entertained I would not think the same holds true for Ramsey.

Bradway or no Bradway...of course the trade would be lopsided towards the Redskins.

;)

[bgforever]

I agree. He was the face of our team through those tough seasons. The nice guy in me wants him to stay around for the good seasons. I would just feel bad to be successful without him.

What hurts is, even though my heart of hearts tells me he'd cut it to bare bone to be on this winning team compared to others, he can't. The ink is dry and the law of contracts forces him to see just how much he has hogged the cofers. However, just as Marcus Washington had to part Indianapolis in one of the most gut wrenching moves for the Colts, we'd understand the reasoning for the Skins. If some stroke of luck the owners all sign an agreement under the duress of 1,000 dancing women and wine, the light would show at the end of the tunnel.

[bgforever]

Bradway or no Bradway...of course the trade would be lopsided towards the Redskins.

;)


Love your Avatar :lol1:

I wanted to sell NASCAR tickets but it didn't jive right. Overhead was too high, but hey I can relate, Drive a Brunt Cake to the Brickyard 400 and watch it bake the whole field.

Hats off to #20!

[santanadasavior]

Where have you seen it written as a straight up deal?

The article says "Rumors have persisted that the Jets could get Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers or Redskins quarterback Patrick Ramsey in a trade involving Abraham".

While Abe for Rivers straight up would be entertained I would not think the same holds true for Ramsey.

I think that Abe for Rivers would be more appealing to th eJets, but there are two things preventing that.

1. Drew Brees coming off the injury or if he tests FA, would make the Chargers hold on to Rivers.
2. Ramsey at least has NFL experience. He knows the league and is a certainty to be at least somewhat successful.

[Scotty Moyer]

IF WE GET ABRAHAM, LAVAR IS GONE FOR SURE. ANOTHER WORDS ABRAHAM WILL BE GETTING LAVARS MONEY.

[santanadasavior]

IF WE GET ABRAHAM, LAVAR IS GONE FOR SURE. ANOTHER WORDS ABRAHAM WILL BE GETTING LAVARS MONEY.

There are a lot of other people that could be gone (Ramsey, Bowen, Raymer, Noble, Jacobs) that are taking a lot of money. I still don't think that getting rid of LaVar is the way to go.

[ConradCountry]

There are a lot of other people that could be gone (Ramsey, Bowen, Raymer, Noble, Jacobs) that are taking a lot of money. I still don't think that getting rid of LaVar is the way to go.

Their is no defensive player in the NFL that I would pay 12 million dollars to especially the third best LB on a team.

[DoGood]

How would you guys feel if we did somehow release or trade LaVAR and he followed what he has said before and actually retired? That would kill me.

[akhhorus]

How would you guys feel if we did somehow release or trade LaVAR and he followed what he has said before and actually retired? That would kill me.

Didn't Lavar-after the uproar over those comments-go back on them and say that he was misquoted? Just as long as Lavar is off the team, he can go smoke up with Ricky Williams for all I care.

[DoGood]

Didn't Lavar-after the uproar over those comments-go back on them and say that he was misquoted? Just as long as Lavar is off the team, he can go smoke up with Ricky Williams for all I care.

I don't recall him recinding his comments. In fact, I thought I remember him actually reiterating them on a later date. Oh I remember now. Your thinking of the comments he made either before last season or the early going in last season. But he made comments about retiring if he wasn't a Redskin long before that.

I get the vibe that your beyond all reason for keeping LaVAR. I however, wish for a solution that is beneficial for the whole team and I will hold out hope until they prove me wrong.

[akhhorus]

I don't recall him recinding his comments. In fact, I thought I remember him actually reiterating them on a later date. Oh I remember now. Your thinking of the comments he made either before last season or the early going in last season. But he made comments about retiring if he wasn't a Redskin long before that.

http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=31576

Thats the omnibus thread on the whole Lavar claiming that he's going to retire. Lavar claimed that he was misquoted, but I find that hard to believe.

I get the vibe that your beyond all reason for keeping LaVAR. I however, wish for a solution that is beneficial for the whole team and I will hold out hope until they prove me wrong.

I loved Lavar, but I just don't see why the Skins should keep him at all. Besides his almost complete lack of doing anything on the field(which I believe is his job), besides his massive contract which will be a major burden on the team even if he was producing on the field, but he's constantly whining about how Gibbs and Williams are the reason he sucks. We don't need players like him on this team and he's frankly no different that The Toe. Good riddance to a cancer. Im more than willing to listen on why we should keep him, but I don't see any logical reason why. There's little upside and way too much risk and down side in it. If he's still hurt form his minor knee injury, then the Skins should cut him because he'll never be healthy then. If he's chunked up from his rehab, then the Skins should cut him because he's lazy and making a fortune. If he's just lost it or teams have figured out how to beat him regularly, then there's no reason to keep him around because he's taking up millions in cap room and he's useless. The justification: "Well we should give him another chance and then cut him if he doesn't rebound" is ridiculous since it will cost 5-6 million more to cut/trade him after next season than doing it this offseason. Cut bait now and save cap room to keep Cooley, Taylor, Portis etc. They actually do well on the field.

[santanadasavior]

http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=31576

Thats the omnibus thread on the whole Lavar claiming that he's going to retire. Lavar claimed that he was misquoted, but I find that hard to believe.



I loved Lavar, but I just don't see why the Skins should keep him at all. Besides his almost complete lack of doing anything on the field(which I believe is his job), besides his massive contract which will be a major burden on the team even if he was producing on the field, but he's constantly whining about how Gibbs and Williams are the reason he sucks. We don't need players like him on this team and he's frankly no different that The Toe. Good riddance to a cancer. Im more than willing to listen on why we should keep him, but I don't see any logical reason why. There's little upside and way too much risk and down side in it.

I'm definetly on the keep LaVar bandwagon and I'll tell you why. I agree with you that his contract is too much and right now he is somewhat of a cancer. Now for the upside. He is an incredible athlete. He is a great football player. He is a fan favorite. He is now out of the doghouse of the coaches. He has been in the playoggs now and he is more apt to work for the team now that he has a better understanding of what the team concept is all about. I just think that he is too important and I like him too much to get rid of him.

[danny's stogie]

I'm definetly on the keep LaVar bandwagon and I'll tell you why. I agree with you that his contract is too much and right now he is somewhat of a cancer. Now for the upside. He is an incredible athlete. He is a great football player. He is a fan favorite. He is now out of the doghouse of the coaches. He has been in the playoggs now and he is more apt to work for the team now that he has a better understanding of what the team concept is all about. I just think that he is too important and I like him too much to get rid of him.

He is currently the highest paid Redskin, but is roughly the 20th most important player on the roster. He has no business making that kind of money no matter how many POTENTIAL positives there are. Take the savings on his contract and use it to resign the team's better players and sign a few productive players.

[akhhorus]

I'm definetly on the keep LaVar bandwagon and I'll tell you why. I agree with you that his contract is too much and right now he is somewhat of a cancer. Now for the upside. He is an incredible athlete. He is a great football player. He is a fan favorite. He is now out of the doghouse of the coaches. He has been in the playoffs now and he is more apt to work for the team now that he has a better understanding of what the team concept is all about. I just think that he is too important and I like him too much to get rid of him.

You make a lot of assumptions on how he's feeling without any evidence of it. And you should speak of Lavar in the past tense. He was an incredible athlete. When he picked off the pass against Tampa in the playoffs, do you think the old Lavar would have been stopped by an Olineman just short of the goalline? He was a great football player(in all fairness he had one "great" season and a couple very good ones). I seriously doubt he's out of the doghouse with his whining last december and if Gibbs wouldn't want to keep with a guy who privately whined(ToeBoy), why would he deal with one who constantly rips him. He's not that important to this team. He's the 3-4th best LB on it now and has the highest contract on the team. If we were talking about any other player-since he's a fan favorite-there wouldn't be any debate over this. What if Taylor Jacobs was sized to a 10 million dollar per year extention and had the season(s) he's had over the last 2-3 years. There wouldn't be any debate over his fate.

[santanadasavior]

He is currently the highest paid Redskin, but is roughly the 20th most important player on the roster. He has no business making that kind of money no matter how many POTENTIAL positives there are. Take the savings on his contract and use it to resign the team's better players and sign a few productive players.

I'll agree that he is not deserving of his money. I should have said that I would keep him if he takes the cap cut. I don't really know why but I really like this guy.

[akhhorus]

I'll agree that he is not deserving of his money. I should have said that I would keep him if he takes the cap cut. I don't really know why but I really like this guy.

The problem with that is if he restructures, he'll save about 4-5 million for 06, but then its impossible to cut him later if he's still a stiff. His charge for being cut would be too high to cut for 3 years and we're still stuck with his huge deal. Make no mistake, Lavar cannot give up(and why would he) any money from the 50 million he's owed over the next 5 years.

[santanadasavior]

The problem with that is if he restructures, he'll save about 4-5 million for 06, but then its impossible to cut him later if he's still a stiff. His charge for being cut would be too high to cut for 3 years and we're still stuck with his huge deal. Make no mistake, Lavar cannot give up(and why would he) any money from the 50 million he's owed over the next 5 years.

There's some part of me that thinks that he's going to come out and produce next year. If he does that then I would be fine paying him his money.

[warpaint]

You make a lot of assumptions on how he's feeling without any evidence of it. And you should speak of Lavar in the past tense. He was an incredible athlete. When he picked off the pass against Tampa in the playoffs, do you think the old Lavar would have been stopped by an Olineman just short of the goalline? He was a great football player(in all fairness he had one "great" season and a couple very good ones). I seriously doubt he's out of the doghouse with his whining last december and if Gibbs wouldn't want to keep with a guy who privately whined(ToeBoy), why would he deal with one who constantly rips him. He's not that important to this team. He's the 3-4th best LB on it now and has the highest contract on the team. If we were talking about any other player-since he's a fan favorite-there wouldn't be any debate over this. What if Taylor Jacobs was sized to a 10 million dollar per year extention and had the season(s) he's had over the last 2-3 years. There wouldn't be any debate over his fate.

thing i dont understand is why he is viewed as a team favorite anyways. he has shown be nothing for the past 2 years. thing is with him getting all out of shape/fat ,shows he doesnt care about the team. all of the hype over lavar was created by a few plays he made and it all started in college with that lavar leap,where he flew over the center to stuff the running back. i did like lavar a lot, but as with desmond howard,heath schuler and others,just comes a time when we have to just admit they cant do their jobs anymore. i know with my job if i dont or cant do it, will be replaced in a heart beat. i agree with you 100% on your thoughts , as far as i am concerned the sooner the better. i swear when he intercepted that pass in the tampa game,thought it was a lineman big and slow. maybe eastern motors can use him ,or pappa johns.

[akhhorus]

There's some part of me that thinks that he's going to come out and produce next year. If he does that then I would be fine paying him his money.

I dont see how thats worth the risk. At best, he's just barely earning his pay(he's overpaid unless he's Derrick Brooks in his prime). There's too many negatives to giving him another year and if we have to dump better players just because we gave Lavar another year and he fails, then the Skins lose big time.

[santanadasavior]

I dont see how thats worth the risk. At best, he's just barely earning his pay(he's overpaid unless he's Derrick Brooks in his prime). There's too many negatives to giving him another year and if we have to dump better players just because we gave Lavar another year and he fails, then the Skins lose big time.

I'm in the same boat as you when it comes to getting rid of him if it means getting rid of some players not paid as much and that are producing more (Salav'ae, Wynn, Daniels, Springs). I would be fine with him leaving if that were the situation. I just want to keep him if we can. I think that he still has a bright future. I'm not on the "keep-Lavar-at-all-costs" bandwagon, just if we can keep him within reason.