RAMSEY Thread - Is he worth anything anymore?

[S.Taylor36]

I was reading this article from Rotoworld.com and wanted to hear everyone's thoughts as to where and what we get in return for Ramsey. This article has him going to New Orleans in a trade. I think the Jets could take a shot at him as well. I would either take a 3rd round pick or trade him for a DE like Abraham involved with the Jets or Darren Howard with the Saints.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/story.asp?sport=NFL&storyid=19835

[VTBob]

not trying to bash Ramsey in any way by quoting this, I just found the joke to be hilarious :lol2:

Ramsey can probably be acquired for a box of footballs.

I'd hope we could get a 3rd rounder out of Ramsey, not just some spare pigskins :P

[akhhorus]

The CFL.

[The Skinsinator]

The CFL.LMAO. He will remain in the nfl as many teams need quartertbacks, we just need to get good value for Pat. If most nfl teams had a good qb situation, he very well might end up in the cfl.

[smoak]

I don't think anyone will make him a starter so start looking at teams that may want a solid plan B (GB, Miami -- if Gus is gone, etc)

[CNYSkinFan]

NY Jets, New Orleans, Miami are solid PR landing spots.

Oakland, Baltimore, Buffalo, & Cincinatti are potential spots

Minnesotta (If they trade Culpepper), San Diego (If they don't resign Brees or trade Rivers), are outside shots.

[Redskinfan28]

As stated before, if he gets traded to the Jets, he should just quit football. He took two years of beatings under Spurrier and now the Jets are bascially cutting their entire starting OL. He would simply endure more beatings.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

the home of the former redskins QBs....miami

[vabeach_skinsfan]

Hopefully to the jets so we can get Abraham.

[Skaggsrules]

A good situation Ramsey could go to is KC, but they have little to no interest in him......N.O. or Miami are my best bets

[Skins7ny]

Anyone who says that PR needs to go to Canada, and is not an NFL QB, is either joking or doesn't know football. There are going to be suitors for Ramsey, and I think we will get a 3rd for him, possibly higher. There is so much up in the air with Culpepper and Brees needing to play out, that it is still too early to say where he lands. Look at all the crappy quarterbacks who started games last year (Brooks Bollinger, Gus Frerotte, etc.). You really want to tell me that Ramsey cannot compete for a starting spot somewhere next year???

[joethefan]

on 66 east or west.....LOL

[joethefan]

Hopefully to the jets so we can get Abraham.


John has been franchised his hit this year is around 9 mil....

[Redskinfan28]

Is anyone listening to Sportstalk 980? Every break they have more specific and different information regarding an Abraham/Ramsey trade. At first, it was a rumor and now a trade is in the works. Weird.

[The Skinsinator]

There is so much up in the air with Culpepper and Brees needing to play out, that it is still too early to say where he lands.So true. Culpepper wants a ridiculous 10 million dollar raise and Brees health is up in the air a bit with Mr. Rivers waiting in the wings. For our situation, I have no doubt this is the year to deal Ram.

[whistleandthumb]

Drew Brees is actually one of the main factors right now in deciding where Ram will land. Wherever Drew doesn't go is probably where Ram will. Miami and NY look like the most likely suitors, but I actually think Ram could do well in a Mike Martz system, so maybe Detroit works out for him.

[redskin_rich]

John has been franchised his hit this year is around 9 mil....
That doesn't mean anything, that cap hit would only be on the Jets if they keep him. Its just a move so they can get something for him, just like the Skins did with Champ 2 years ago. Whoever trades for Abraham will probably already have a new deal worked out with him.

[The Skinsinator]

Is anyone listening to Sportstalk 980? Every break they have more specific and different information regarding an Abraham/Ramsey trade. At first, it was a rumor and now a trade is in the works. Weird.To anyone listening to 980 now, what are they specifically stating about this? This is getting interesting.

[Redskinfan28]

To anyone listening to 980 now, what are they specifically stating about this? This is getting interesting.

The report seemingly stems from the Star Ledger article. There doesn't appear to be any updates by 980 - only restating the same story in different ways during each update.

[smoak]

Without a new CBA, trading for JA would kill us in terms of the cap. I am not getting my hopes up for ANY significant additions tothe team unless a new CBA is in place prior to March 3.

[Redskin4Life]

Without a new CBA, trading for JA would kill us in terms of the cap. I am not getting my hopes up for ANY significant additions tothe team unless a new CBA is in place prior to March 3.
Or if they move the FA period to April 1st like rumored...

[The Skinsinator]

Or if they move the FA period to April 1st like rumored...I hope they don't unless they really have to. That would be some serious entertainment in a span of about 25 days combined with the draft. Nothing like finding out what type of team you have going into next season in less than a month. They need to be separate if possible.

[Battle Cat]

Without a new CBA, trading for JA would kill us in terms of the cap. I am not getting my hopes up for ANY significant additions tothe team unless a new CBA is in place prior to March 3.
The CBA is going to get signed no worries there. There is no way the NFL is going to pay back any of that ABC/Fox money due to a strike. Its all about the tv money the money they are arguing over now is just icing on the cake money. They get into the black off of the tv revenue alone. Everyone is posturing but no one is going to blink until a few days before the deadline they will get a deal done and the billionare owners will agree to share revenue with the multi millionare owners. I think we still can get a 3rd for Ramsey due to the fact that the new qb's that have came up in free agency talk are all older, hurt, and wanting far more money than Ramsey. The only guy I would take in front of Ramsey is a hurt Culpepper that might not be able to throw until August or play until October. I say he ends up in San Diego, Minnesota, Tampa Bay, Miami, the Jets are going to get the kid from Vanderbilt and regret getting another weak armed qb.

[akhhorus]

Another possiblity: Paintedbird's basement.

[HAWGZHEAD]

Another possiblity: Paintedbird's basement.ZING!! :lol1:

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

Another possiblity: Paintedbird's basement.
LMAO........:lol3:

[Redskin4Life]

The CBA is going to get signed no worries there. There is no way the NFL is going to pay back any of that ABC/Fox money due to a strike. Its all about the tv money the money they are arguing over now is just icing on the cake money. They get into the black off of the tv revenue alone. Everyone is posturing but no one is going to blink until a few days before the deadline they will get a deal done and the billionare owners will agree to share revenue with the multi millionare owners. I think we still can get a 3rd for Ramsey due to the fact that the new qb's that have came up in free agency talk are all older, hurt, and wanting far more money than Ramsey. The only guy I would take in front of Ramsey is a hurt Culpepper that might not be able to throw until August or play until October. I say he ends up in San Diego, Minnesota, Tampa Bay, Miami, the Jets are going to get the kid from Vanderbilt and regret getting another weak armed qb.
I honestly hope there is NO sharing of the revenues the billionaires club owners are fighting for. Why share money with owners that don't do the extra work to bring in more money or have the business savvy to get it??? Why share money with owners that don't pay their players enough to field a team therin not getting enough people to the stadium and wiping out the need for luxury boxes???? Why share money with owners that want a share of the naming rights for stadiums that they don't want to give up for themselves??? To me, it seems that the handful of guys that work hard are being punished for finding ways to make some of the money back that they lost in their initial investment of buying a NFL franchise!??!?! The money that isn't shared doesn't come from ways that the other franchises couldn't get money from themselves?!!?? Hell, the past 5-6 years, some of these guys didn't have winning teams yet somehow still sold out their stadiums and made lots of money!?!?!

[akhhorus]

Anyone who says that PR needs to go to Canada, and is not an NFL QB, is either joking or doesn't know football. There are going to be suitors for Ramsey, and I think we will get a 3rd for him, possibly higher. There is so much up in the air with Culpepper and Brees needing to play out, that it is still too early to say where he lands. Look at all the crappy quarterbacks who started games last year (Brooks Bollinger, Gus Frerotte, etc.). You really want to tell me that Ramsey cannot compete for a starting spot somewhere next year???

Ramsey would have trouble unseating a Gus Frerotte type for a starting QB job. There will be a couple teams dealing for him, but if Kerry Collins, Frerotte, Pennington, Brooks and a few others are available in trades/free agency, why would you sign/trade for Ramsey? What has he shown to warrant even a 4-5th rounder, much less a 3rd rounder.

[akhhorus]

LMAO........:lol3:

George Michael gets a grainy video tape delievered to him of Ramsey blindfolded with a sign in crayon written out: "Give him a starting job in the NFL or he gets it!"

[ChiefPowhatan17]

Ramsey is going to the Jets. I just have this feeling that we are going to trade for Abraham after what Tony K. said this morning on his show.

[CNYSkinFan]

Ramsey is going to the Jets. I just have this feeling that we are going to trade for Abraham after what Tony K. said this morning on his show.
Tony K has predicted several wrong things....Amare Rolle for example. TO for another. I like TK but he is not an analyst, he is a humorist.

[EberKain]

I don't think anyone will give anything for him, so I look for him be a backup here again, if they asked him to restructure I think he would, if he wont we will probably just squease him under the cap as is.

[redskin_rich]

I don't think anyone will give anything for him, so I look for him be a backup here again, if they asked him to restructure I think he would, if he wont we will probably just squease him under the cap as is.
Ramsey is in the final year of his deal, there is nothing to restructure. Furthermore, he wants out of here, he definitely isn't going to want to hang out as a 3rd stringer, which he would be. Ramsey will be traded or cut, bank on it.

[oldskinfan]

the home of the former redskins QBs....miami

LOL - you are right....Rosenfels, Frerotte, next.....Ramsey.
That actually would not be bad...another conference, not a bad team...I like Ramsey, except when he occasionally reminds you of Jay Schoeder on a bad day.

[EberKain]

Ramsey is in the final year of his deal, there is nothing to restructure. Furthermore, he wants out of here, he definitely isn't going to want to hang out as a 3rd stringer, which he would be. Ramsey will be traded or cut, bank on it.

Maybe for one year he will be 3rd, but how long do you really think Brunell will be around? I think if we can talk Ram into being the backup, it would be good for the team. Has he said he wanted to leave the team? I haven't seen that in any news reports? I don't care what team he goes to, hes not going to have a better coaching staff, and I dont think he will ever be a long-term starter for anyone.

I'm not a Ramsey supporter, but from his POV, why would he want to leave? His competition is a rookie that has yet to play and a fragile old guy in his last few years. If Cambell bombs, which many rookies do at first, and Brunell gets sacked in the knee, then Ram could find himself easily starting next year. Now im just babbling.

[Red Bear]

Ramsey would have trouble unseating a Gus Frerotte type for a starting QB job. There will be a couple teams dealing for him, but if Kerry Collins, Frerotte, Pennington, Brooks and a few others are available in trades/free agency, why would you sign/trade for Ramsey? What has he shown to warrant even a 4-5th rounder, much less a 3rd rounder.

frerotte and collins are on the downside of their careers, pennington is injury prone in his throwing arm/shoulder whatever, maybe brooks was in a bad situation in NO but he isnt that good either. i could see what some teams could see in ramsey, hes a young guy who has flashed potential. hes tough. i can see the jets being interested because of the ramsey/coles relationship in washington. yeah brunell did a decent job for us last year, but i still wonder what our season would of been like if Ramsey actually did QB the entire season. maybe our passing game would have existed at the end of the season when brunell was breaking down and couldnt even throw for 200 yards avg a game. sure ramsey may have throw a few more INTs than brunell but it would have probably equaled out to all the fumbles brunell lost this past year. so ramsey got off to a rocky start against what turned out to be one of the best defenses in football all year long, i think he should of got his chance is all, and whatever team he goes to i hope he lights up the league...

[RicFlairOne]

The CBA is going to get signed no worries there. There is no way the NFL is going to pay back any of that ABC/Fox money due to a strike. Its all about the tv money the money they are arguing over now is just icing on the cake money. They get into the black off of the tv revenue alone. Everyone is posturing but no one is going to blink until a few days before the deadline they will get a deal done and the billionare owners will agree to share revenue with the multi millionare owners. I think we still can get a 3rd for Ramsey due to the fact that the new qb's that have came up in free agency talk are all older, hurt, and wanting far more money than Ramsey. The only guy I would take in front of Ramsey is a hurt Culpepper that might not be able to throw until August or play until October. I say he ends up in San Diego, Minnesota, Tampa Bay, Miami, the Jets are going to get the kid from Vanderbilt and regret getting another weak armed qb.

From what I've read Cutler has a good arm. Ramsey can and will play for someone else next year. It's fun to speculate, but I say Brees goes to Miami, Culpepper to Raiders, and Ramsey to Saints or Vikings.

[redskin_rich]

Maybe for one year he will be 3rd, but how long do you really think Brunell will be around? I think if we can talk Ram into being the backup, it would be good for the team. Has he said he wanted to leave the team? I haven't seen that in any news reports? I don't care what team he goes to, hes not going to have a better coaching staff, and I dont think he will ever be a long-term starter for anyone.

I'm not a Ramsey supporter, but from his POV, why would he want to leave? His competition is a rookie that has yet to play and a fragile old guy in his last few years. If Cambell bombs, which many rookies do at first, and Brunell gets sacked in the knee, then Ram could find himself easily starting next year. Now im just babbling.
This upcoming season could be Brunell's last with the Skins but I wouldn't rule out him being here as the backup in '07.
Ramsey has never said anything publicly about wanting to leave, he is a class act but I'm pretty sure a lot has been said in private. At least two seperate instances have been reported.

I was a Ramsey supporter up until Brunell proved me wrong, not that I thought Ramsey was the answer, I just thought he gave us the best chance to win and I was wrong. Brunell is not as fragile as some of you like to say, he took some big hits and only missed 1 quarter of PT after spraining a ligament in his knee. He even scrambled for yards in games after that injury, though it is obvious that he lost his velocity and accuracy after the injury.

I don't expect Campbell to be put into a bad situation, these coaches will have him ready to play, whenever that is.

It is best for both the Skins and Ramsey to let him go elsewhere this offseason.

[akhhorus]

frerotte and collins are on the downside of their careers, pennington is injury prone in his throwing arm/shoulder whatever, maybe brooks was in a bad situation in NO but he isnt that good either. i could see what some teams could see in ramsey, hes a young guy who has flashed potential. hes tough.

What potential? He's shown a propensity for turnovers, an inability to read a pro defense and whining when benched. He's supposed to have a great arm, but can't hit WRs deep. I would take any of the Qbs over Ramsey. I would take Jay Fiedler over Ramsey.

I can see the jets being interested because of the ramsey/coles relationship in washington. yeah brunell did a decent job for us last year, but i still wonder what our season would of been like if Ramsey actually did QB the entire season. maybe our passing game would have existed at the end of the season when brunell was breaking down and couldnt even throw for 200 yards avg a game. sure ramsey may have throw a few more INTs than brunell but it would have probably equaled out to all the fumbles brunell lost this past year.

C'mon, you have to be joking. Brunell led this team and got the ball down the field. Ramsey, for all his arm strength, could never hit the deep ball consistantly. And we saw what Ramsey did in the preseason. Turnovers, turnovers, turnovers. We wouldn't have made the playoffs with him at QB and we certainly wouldn't have done any better in the playoffs if he relieved Brunell(Brunell did have 242 yards against Seattle).

so ramsey got off to a rocky start against what turned out to be one of the best defenses in football all year long, i think he should of got his chance is all, and whatever team he goes to i hope he lights up the league...

And what about the preseason when he looked like crap?

[gibbsisgod]

if the trade is not to our liking then he stays. Just my opion

[bgforever]

the home of the former redskins QBs....miami


JT? Maybe as the Skins silence drives you crazy then a move that stuns. They said there won't be any of that. Well to us fans, anybody that has started for the Skins or playe a bit in 2005, would be big for us. Since we know they'd do it for it need, Miami would be highly logical as a potential trade partner.

Jason Taylor DE - you know the rest. :)

would be interesting, Ramsey at Qb and Edge in the backfield.

[bgforever]

Ramsey is in the final year of his deal, there is nothing to restructure. Furthermore, he wants out of here, he definitely isn't going to want to hang out as a 3rd stringer, which he would be. Ramsey will be traded or cut, bank on it.


Ramsey will NOT play second fiddle to both Brunell and Jason Campbell in succession (provided JC is all that). After sitting back for 4 yrs, forget it, he's still young enough to catch on somewhere else and start.

[bgforever]

This upcoming season could be Brunell's last with the Skins but I wouldn't rule out him being here as the backup in '07.
Ramsey has never said anything publicly about wanting to leave, he is a class act but I'm pretty sure a lot has been said in private. At least two seperate instances have been reported.

I was a Ramsey supporter up until Brunell proved me wrong, not that I thought Ramsey was the answer, I just thought he gave us the best chance to win and I was wrong. Brunell is not as fragile as some of you like to say, he took some big hits and only missed 1 quarter of PT after spraining a ligament in his knee. He even scrambled for yards in games after that injury, though it is obvious that he lost his velocity and accuracy after the injury.

I don't expect Campbell to be put into a bad situation, these coaches will have him ready to play, whenever that is.

It is best for both the Skins and Ramsey to let him go elsewhere this offseason.

Ditto here and I also agree about supporting Ramsey, until Brunell proved me wrong and I BELIEVE Coach Gibbs when he says JC can step it up! After what he did supporting Brunell when many, even me, were saying get rid of him. Then Coach goes on to say JC isa Ryp type, he's telling us all something!

[monkr]

I was reading this article from Rotoworld.com and wanted to hear everyone's thoughts as to where and what we get in return for Ramsey. This article has him going to New Orleans in a trade. I think the Jets could take a shot at him as well. I would either take a 3rd round pick or trade him for a DE like Abraham involved with the Jets or Darren Howard with the Saints.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/story.asp?sport=NFL&storyid=19835

THE DOLPHINS

[santanadasavior]

THE DOLPHINS

That would all depend on whether or not Drew Brees is re-signed. If he is not then he will likely land there. If he is than Ramsey may be their best choice.

[Death_Venom]

If by some MIRACLE we actually pull off some trade that equals us getting John Abraham for little or nothing-then I am all for it...........But i think our best bet is that we offer up a trade that involves Betts/Ramsey for Bouldin or Fitzgerald with which is would solve our #2 WR problem. We will see which way things will go......

[skins111111]

he might become a Fish that seems to be the missing piece of their puzzle.
maybe a Jet..........so long as he dosen't end up in the NFC east

[Axegrinder]

What about Oakland?
There's no info,I'm just thinking out loud.
Ramsey has a strong arm and he's cheap.

[DCGreys]

Ramsey probably would do the best in Oakland and we could probably get a 4th round pick although i think he will become a winner given the right situation

[bgforever]

Ramsey probably would do the best in Oakland and we could probably get a 4th round pick although i think he will become a winner given the right situation

I think that might be right and Miami's out of the Ramsey sweepstakes, I believe, because of the UN-Agreement on the CBA, FA swap is out, so a pick is better to save on cap room for the coming season.

[colkurtz]

Ramsey will go quietly for a medium draft pick. He will compete for the top QB spot at another team - but will probably end up holding the clipboard there also.

Hope he does well wherever he goes - he's been a class act while he was here.

Anyone who thinks Patrick gets us anything more than a fourth rounder is dreaming.

[santanadasavior]

Ramsey will go quietly for a medium draft pick. He will compete for the top QB spot at another team - but will probably end up holding the clipboard there also.

Hope he does well wherever he goes - he's been a class act while he was here.

Anyone who thinks Patrick gets us anything more than a fourth rounder is dreaming.

I think that if we package him with someone else that we don't want or need anymore than we could get something that we need or want. How desperate are the Jets and the Saints? They would be willing to chuck up something they probably shouldn't. You also have to remember that Ramsey is a lot better than we are giving him credit for. He is a good QB who just hasn't really been given a chance, at least while Gibbs is here. I'm not disagreeing with Gibbs, I'm just saying that this guy is a good QB who has already played with Toes McGee up in NY. That could be anther thing. If we are patient we could get more than a 4th rounder.

[HAWGZHEAD]

Toes McGee up in NY. LOL, I never get tired of the Toe jokes!

[bgforever]

LOL, I never get tired of the Toe jokes!


Toes just put out a hit single!


Toe Jam!

[Red Bear]

akh, you keep mentioning turnovers. where were you when brunell was losing all those fumbles

[akhhorus]

akh, you keep mentioning turnovers. where were you when brunell was losing all those fumbles

Do we have to go over this again? Brunell lost about 6 fumbles all season(and frankly one of them against Oakland didn't matter since it was the last play of the game on 4th down and one of them could have been considered Portis' fault and were lost on the handoff). Ramsey, in his first three drives of the season had 2 fumbles(one lost) and an INT. If you want to go over his preseason where he threw 4 INTs in basically less than two games of work, we can discuss that if you want.

[3644Skins]

Drew Brees is going to end up in Detriot, Culpepper isn't going anywhere, Ramsey ends up in Miami and he will start over Gus if he gets the offense down which I think he will, no doubt. Nick Saban is looking for an upgrade and Ramsey is it. Ramsey's past is just that, the turnovers, the questionable deep ball, blah blah blah, every QB turns the ball over, even our QB so get over it. Ramsey has what it takes, he's sat long enough to learn what's going on and he'll be alright. If anything sitting yet another season has made him a better QB. He's out the door anyway so why even continue, I just wish him well.

[GWBlitzST]

The Jets are our best bet. They are interested and for some reason those AFC North teams like Tulane QB's. The very fact that the Dolphins are showing interest will help his stock go up, not to mention Danny's previous dealings with the Jets in the past few years.

Ramsey also beat the Jets on opening day 2003, which I'm sure they remember.

[Dept_of_Defense]

If by some MIRACLE we actually pull off some trade that equals us getting John Abraham for little or nothing-then I am all for it...........But i think our best bet is that we offer up a trade that involves Betts/Ramsey for Bouldin or Fitzgerald with which is would solve our #2 WR problem. We will see which way things will go......
Wow, this is a great idea, but is there any chance we could pull this off?

[whitskins]

Wow, this is a great idea, but is there any chance we could pull this off?

Considering that Boldin and Fitzgerald are two of the only legitimate players currently on the Cardinals roster, I'd say that the chances are absolutely zero.

[Dept_of_Defense]

Considering that Boldin and Fitzgerald are two of the only legitimate players currently on the Cardinals roster, I'd say that the chances are absolutely zero.
Haha...that's what I thought. Too good to be true.

[C-7]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/25/AR2006022501479.html


INDIANAPOLIS, Feb. 25 -- As they hope for an extension of the NFL's labor agreement to improve their salary cap situation, the Washington Redskins are listening to trade offers for quarterback Patrick Ramsey, Coach Joe Gibbs said here Saturday.

At the NFL's scouting combine, Gibbs said the team had granted permission for Ramsey and his agent, Jimmy Sexton, to speak to other clubs regarding a trade. But Ramsey and Sexton have not come back to the Redskins with a suitable trade partner, Gibbs said, and the search has been complicated by possible surprise entries such as Drew Brees and Daunte Culpepper into the quarterback market.

[hail2skins]

There's already a thread on Ramsey. Merging

[Redskin4Life]

I just don't understand why two players coming off of shoulder surgery (one off of his first, the other off his second), a player trying to come back from a knee injury that would kill anyone's career 5 years ago and another that probably would have lost his job to the younger Simms anyway.... how do these guys become better options than a healthy QB???

[smoak]

I just don't understand why two players coming off of shoulder surgery (one off of his first, the other off his second), a player trying to come back from a knee injury that would kill anyone's career 5 years ago and another that probably would have lost his job to the younger Simms anyway.... how do these guys become better options than a healthy QB???

Brees and Culpepper are former Pro Bowlers. Ramey hasn't even started a full season yet in his career. We will be LUCKY to get a day on pick for Patrick... I think about a 5th or 6th rounder is more likely.

[joethefan]

I just hope that we don't get greedy...if we get perhaps a #3 I would be elated!!!!..But I won't be surprised if we don't get that much.

[S.Taylor36]

I just hope that we don't get greedy...if we get perhaps a #3 I would be elated!!!!..But I won't be surprised if we don't get that much.

Agreed, lets be honest, it's not like Ramsey has ever been a full time starter, let alone productive while in there. I'm hoping for a 4th round pick here but if we get a 5th or 6th I wouldn't be shocked. Anything higher is gravy.

[smoak]

Jason La Canfora just guessed (on the Tonk K Show) that we'd get a fourth rounder before the end of the week.

[DoGood]

Brees and Culpepper are former Pro Bowlers. Ramey hasn't even started a full season yet in his career. We will be LUCKY to get a day on pick for Patrick... I think about a 5th or 6th rounder is more likely.

We would be getting train robbed if we gave up Pat for a 5th or 6th rounder IMO. It is ridiculous to just throw away a former first rounder that has not thrived under horrid coaching for most of his young career. Ramsey would be ideal for any number of teams looking for a fresh start at QB. Patrick is going to heat up on the market here in a bit as teams get anxious to bring him in. I think that Ramsey low value is a result of the anti-Redskin sentiment throughout the media. Except this time, it really hurts us.

In addition, I would take a lot longer look at Ramsey before a guy like Pennington who has little upside and is an accident waiting to happen. McNair is out of juice. Culpeper will get some real long looks and deservingly so. A guy I would look out for is Matt Schaub, the young backup in Atlanta. He has looked sharp in his limited playing time and might attract some teams.

[Ibleedburgundy]

I just want to get this over with. Get our draft pick and move on.

[akhhorus]

We would be getting train robbed if we gave up Pat for a 5th or 6th rounder IMO. It is ridiculous to just throw away a former first rounder that has not thrived under horrid coaching for most of his young career. Ramsey would be ideal for any number of teams looking for a fresh start at QB. Patrick is going to heat up on the market here in a bit as teams get anxious to bring him in.

What will kill Ramsey's value is three things:
1-He whined(well had his agent whine) publically each time he was benched. That says a lot about his maturity.
2-That his reputation around the league is that he cannot read a defense.
3-That he regressed as a QB between 04 and 05. He looked like total crap in the preseason and in the chicago game, then Brunell comes in and looks like-arguably-a pro bowler with the same talent that Ramsey struggled with.

If anyone gives us a 4th rounder, we should be really happy about it.

[smoak]

We would be getting train robbed if we gave up Pat for a 5th or 6th rounder IMO. It is ridiculous to just throw away a former first rounder that has not thrived under horrid coaching for most of his young career. Ramsey would be ideal for any number of teams looking for a fresh start at QB. Patrick is going to heat up on the market here in a bit as teams get anxious to bring him in. I think that Ramsey low value is a result of the anti-Redskin sentiment throughout the media. Except this time, it really hurts us.

In addition, I would take a lot longer look at Ramsey before a guy like Pennington who has little upside and is an accident waiting to happen. McNair is out of juice. Culpeper will get some real long looks and deservingly so. A guy I would look out for is Matt Schaub, the young backup in Atlanta. He has looked sharp in his limited playing time and might attract some teams.

Jason LaConforna reported that P-Ram was given an informal agreement that if he behaved and played the role of a good teammate in '05, the Redskins would either trade or release him on '06. At this point his value is definitely not better than a fourth round pick IMO and I just do not see us getting anything in Day 1 for the young man.

[bgforever]

We would be getting train robbed if we gave up Pat for a 5th or 6th rounder IMO. It is ridiculous to just throw away a former first rounder that has not thrived under horrid coaching for most of his young career. Ramsey would be ideal for any number of teams looking for a fresh start at QB. Patrick is going to heat up on the market here in a bit as teams get anxious to bring him in.


Culpepper leaving Minnesota leaves a gap of depth at QB there, Miami is a question mark, Philadelphia has a depth question maybe, NY Jets may wind up in 1 of 3 QB scenarios, St. Louis is looking at Lienhart (Bulger continues, but ML would soon press, if he's as good as his college game (USC has touted some BIG Names that duded out), Where's Tennessee in all of this, Arizona may be hoping too much on Warner instead of moving in a younger, fiestier QB making them suspect by mid season.

Arizona is the only PLUS, with ST. Louis offering Lienhart the car in need of repair by the time he's ready. Reputation is all that is left in St. Louis, not the production machine it once was, with ONLY a QB missing. RB is ok, but the holes will pop up too soon, starting this year.

Seattle offers Ramsey the BEST WIN NOW scenario, so does Pittsburgh, NY Jets - Play now as does New Orleans, Miami where he could dislodge Ferotte by mid preseason(SS/Gibbs vs Norval). If Culpepper DOES actually sign with Baltimore or New Orleans, then Ramsey's got as good a chance to face a former Skins QB in Johnson, who would represent another Norval vs a SS/Gibbs QB (how interesting that would be also).

Add that Arizona, NY Jets, Miami, Detroit if a playa', NO and Minnesota, have particular trade values as opposed to just getting a draft pick.

[GreenspanDan]

4th rounder is my guess. he's not a rookie anymore. although *i* think he'll go on to be a solid starter, the prevailing "word on the street", right or wrong, is that he makes too many turnovers, can't read a defense, and is too slow to make decisions. someone's gonna get a great deal on a good quarterback in my opinion.

[skinswin]

From what I'm hearing, there are atleast three deals that have been offered. I'd be real pleased if we could somehow get a 4th rounder for Ramsey but a 5th is more likely.

I really think that the best way to maximize what we get for Ramsey is to package him up with a one of our additional 6th round picks and get an additional 4th round pick.

[C-7]

What will kill Ramsey's value is three things:
1-He whined(well had his agent whine) publically each time he was benched. That says a lot about his maturity.
2-That his reputation around the league is that he cannot read a defense.
3-That he regressed as a QB between 04 and 05. He looked like total crap in the preseason and in the chicago game, then Brunell comes in and looks like-arguably-a pro bowler with the same talent that Ramsey struggled with.

If anyone gives us a 4th rounder, we should be really happy about it.



Sorry man, I gota say something to this.

First of all, I have always supported Ramsey.



1 - Ramsey whined. OK. Compare him to other NFL players and tell me how they would have reacted in similar situations. Besides, off the field Ramsey has always been a team player.
2 - Granted.
3 - He looked bad in preseason. But how did he look like crap against Chicago? He played 1 quarter and moved the ball fairly well. Brunell did not play great against them either. You say he regressed, but how can you base that on 1 game or the preseason? He looked fine against the Giants. Brunell played very well but he played. There is simply no way you can know how well Ramsey would have played with the same opportunity. No way.

A 5th or 6th rounder for Ramsey is highway robbery.

[whistleandthumb]

It'd be hard for me to be happy with a 4th round pick for Ram. I'd rather push for a 3rd, but at the end of the day, we need his cap room more than we need a higher draft pick.

[akhhorus]

Sorry man, I gota say something to this.

First of all, I have always supported Ramsey.

1 - Ramsey whined. OK. Compare him to other NFL players and tell me how they would have reacted in similar situations. Besides, off the field Ramsey has always been a team player.

Im sure every NFL player is mad when they are benched, but to publically-even by proxy-gripe whenever he's benched, with plenty of cause by the way, shows immaturity frankly.

2 - Granted.
3 - He looked bad in preseason. But how did he look like crap against Chicago? He played 1 quarter and moved the ball fairly well. Brunell did not play great against them either. You say he regressed, but how can you base that on 1 game or the preseason? He looked fine against the Giants. Brunell played very well but he played.

Ok: Against Chicago, in 3 drives, he moved the ball in one drive(which ended in a lost fumble on a sack), had 1 INT, 1 fumble on a sack(recoved by the skins) and no points. Thats looking like crap. And before you say how great the Chicago defense is, Brunell didn't turn the ball over at all when he came into the game.
against the Giants: He threw 9 passes in 1.5 quarters and you say he looked fine? His TD pass was a disaster that Moss saved. He barely played in that game and he had no say in the outcome of the game(the Skins had 21 points when Brunell left and the Giants never got past 20).

There is simply no way you can know how well Ramsey would have played with the same opportunity. No way.

We know by what we saw. In the preseason and in the little time he played in the regular season, we saw the same Ramsey: Happy feet, throwing into coverage, throwing with no accuracy and taking sacks.

A 5th or 6th rounder for Ramsey is highway robbery.

No, its about fair. If I'm a GM of an NFL team and I could get Aaron Brooks or Ramsey for a 3-4th rounder, I would rather have Brooks or any of a dozen other QBs. Ramsey has shown nothing in his time in the NFL. Certainly nothing to warrant giving up much for him.

[smoak]

Just my thoughts on the Ramsey discussion:

1. I don't think Ramsey's whining was bad. It seemed like genuine frustration which is understandable.

2. No arguments there. The kid has his strengths, but this is his weakness IMO.

3. IMO Ramsey has potential, but struggles with turnovers. I can't blame the fumble on him where he was clotheslined in an illegal hit. Ramsey looked ok against the Giants, and Moss also saved Brunell in that very game. The bottom line is that the team won.

I just think a 4-5th rounder is about fair market value for P-Ram. A 3rd is too high, and a 6th is almost to the point where I just release him.... Almost. :D

[dj_stouty]

Mark Brunell didn't whine when he was benched in the '04 season.

Maybe Ramsey should have taken note...

[RicFlairOne]

I'll take a 4th rounder for him and move on. If he ends up with a crappy team like the Saints or the Jets, he will not do anything anyway. Ramsey needs a change of scenery and the skins can pick up a 3rd qb cheaply.

[danny's stogie]

We would be getting train robbed if we gave up Pat for a 5th or 6th rounder IMO. It is ridiculous to just throw away a former first rounder that has not thrived under horrid coaching for most of his young career. Ramsey would be ideal for any number of teams looking for a fresh start at QB. Patrick is going to heat up on the market here in a bit as teams get anxious to bring him in. I think that Ramsey low value is a result of the anti-Redskin sentiment throughout the media. Except this time, it really hurts us.

In addition, I would take a lot longer look at Ramsey before a guy like Pennington who has little upside and is an accident waiting to happen. McNair is out of juice. Culpeper will get some real long looks and deservingly so. A guy I would look out for is Matt Schaub, the young backup in Atlanta. He has looked sharp in his limited playing time and might attract some teams.

I think this is a point that a lot of us tend to overvalue. Ramsey was a former first rounder, but the second he stepped into uniform he became nothing more than an NFL player. The first round draft pick part should play no role in his current evaluation and so if you remove that from the equation he hasn't proven that he's worth a first day pick in return.

[DoGood]

I would agree with some of you who say that Ramsey handled the benching about as well as a quarterback in his position could have. He's not Mark Brunell, a guy who is a 13! year veteran and former demotee. Mark Brunell is reserved about EVERYTHING.

[IndianBaller27]

Mark Brunell didn't whine when he was benched in the '04 season.

Maybe Ramsey should have taken note...
Ramsey had more reason to whine. He was benched after one quarter when he was basically promised the starting job.

[akhhorus]

I would agree with some of you who say that Ramsey handled the benching about as well as a quarterback in his position could have. He's not Mark Brunell, a guy who is a 13! year veteran and former demotee. Mark Brunell is reserved about EVERYTHING.

So Ramsey has a right to run his mouth? LMAO. Ramsey hasn't earned the right with his play to complain about being benched. If Brunell is benched for Campbell before the 06 season, he has the right to complain since he had a good season in 05.

[akhhorus]

Ramsey had more reason to whine. He was benched after one quarter when he was basically promised the starting job.

All he was promised was that he would start the season, not hold the starting job for the season. And considering how poor he looked and how well Brunell did, he has no reason to complain.

[Redskinfan28]

Ramsey is a good teamate and a goos person. No reason to blast him. However, if we can get a 4th for him, pull the trigger.

[DoGood]

All he was promised was that he would start the season, not hold the starting job for the season. And considering how poor he looked and how well Brunell did, he has no reason to complain.

I agree on both accounts but more to the first.

[whistleandthumb]

Mark Brunell didn't whine when he was benched in the '04 season.

Maybe Ramsey should have taken note...
In Ram's defense, when he was benched this year, he never said a peep about it, and was probably the most supportive person of Mark being in there in his place.

Now, last year, when Mark was brought in, Ram's AGENT made some comments, but I don't think Ram, himself, was ever quoted as saying anything bad or "whiney."

[akhhorus]

In Ram's defense, when he was benched this year, he never said a peep about it, and was probably the most supportive person of Mark being in there in his place.

Now, last year, when Mark was brought in, Ram's AGENT made some comments, but I don't think Ram, himself, was ever quoted as saying anything bad or "whiney."

If you recall, Ramsey stormed-reportedly-into Gibbs' office and demanded to be traded. That alone is whiney, but I suspect his agent leaked it to let teams know he might be available.

[whistleandthumb]

If you recall, Ramsey stormed-reportedly-into Gibbs' office and demanded to be traded. That alone is whiney, but I suspect his agent leaked it to let teams know he might be available.
Unless any of us were there, maybe we shouldn't destroy someone's character on what the media "reports."

Especially if it's the same media we always criticize for making our team look bad.

[akhhorus]

Unless any of us were there, maybe we shouldn't destroy someone's character on what the media "reports."

Especially if it's the same media we always criticize for making our team look bad.

Right...because Don Vito and Prisco trash the Skins, we shouldn't listen to any media reports. :rolleyes: No one denied this report at all. And considering that Ramsey whined before and demanded to be traded before in 04, this is extremely plausible.

[whistleandthumb]

Right...because Don Vito and Prisco trash the Skins, we shouldn't listen to any media reports. :rolleyes: No one denied this report at all. And considering that Ramsey whined before and demanded to be traded before in 04, this is extremely plausible.
Akh, I guess I'm just not ready to trash someone's character based on media reports, and not something I saw or heard. Had Ram behaved inappropriately in public or at media sessions, I'd totally agree that he's "whiney," but he never did, and all this character bashing comes from reports of people that I wouldn't trust anyway. Maybe if Gibbs said he was being "whiney"...

Now, Ram's play in the preseason last year was suspect, and I think if someone wants to criticize what he's done on the field, then the proof is in the pudding, and there's actual visual evidence to support any arguments for, or against, his play.

[akhhorus]

Akh, I guess I'm just not ready to trash someone's character based on media reports, and not something I saw or heard. Had Ram behaved inappropriately in public or at media sessions, I'd totally agree that he's "whiney," but he never did, and all this character bashing comes from reports of people that I wouldn't trust anyway. Maybe if Gibbs said he was being "whiney"...

See, the problem with this is that no matter who I could bring up as writing this, you left it wide open enough to shoot down any source. Too many sources, from the WaPo/WashTimes to every sports media outlet reported this. The most reliable I saw was from ProFootballWeekly. Which is as reliable as it gets. Ramsey, this past september, tried to play the Semantic games when asked about his trade demand and didn't specificaly deny it.

Now, Ram's play in the preseason last year was suspect, and I think if someone wants to criticize what he's done on the field, then the proof is in the pudding, and there's actual visual evidence to support any arguments for, or against, his play.

I believe I have, many times.

[smoak]

If you recall, Ramsey stormed-reportedly-into Gibbs' office and demanded to be traded. That alone is whiney, but I suspect his agent leaked it to let teams know he might be available.

I remember that Ramsey requested/demanded a trade, but I do not recall any report of him "storming" into Gibbs' office. Even so, just as WAT said, at least anything said was said off the field.

As much as you accuse people of being Ramsey lovers, you have to admit you are a Ramsey hater. He could find a cure for cancer and you still despise him.... Of course a cure for cancer wouldn't help him with his pre-snap reads. :D

[joethefan]

I remember that Ramsey requested/demanded a trade, but I do not recall any report of him "storming" into Gibbs' office. Even so, just as WAT said, at least anything said was said off the field.

:D
noone heard out of ramsey's mouth that he wanted a trade...the idea was that Pat's agent called espn and told them that he wanted a trade....but ramsey never opny said he wanted a trade.....

I still want to get rid of him...I just don't think he has it all .. abad marriage from the beginning...IMO.

[smoak]

noone heard out of ramsey's mouth that he wanted a trade...the idea was that Pat's agent called espn and told them that he wanted a trade....but ramsey never opny said he wanted a trade.....

I still want to get rid of him...I just don't think he has it all .. abad marriage from the beginning...IMO.

I think he'd be a great #3 (eventual #2 once Brunell retires) but he doesn't want that and I respect his competiveness. My faith in Ramsey was always more faith in Joe Gibbs' coaching than anything else.

[akhhorus]

I remember that Ramsey requested/demanded a trade, but I do not recall any report of him "storming" into Gibbs' office. Even so, just as WAT said, at least anything said was said off the field.

I remember Ed Werder saying before the Skins' MNF win over Dallas that Ramsey and Gibbs had an angry meeting where he demanded a cut or trade and he stormed in and out of it.

As much as you accuse people of being Ramsey lovers, you have to admit you are a Ramsey hater. He could find a cure for cancer and you still despise him.... Of course a cure for cancer wouldn't help him with his pre-snap reads. :D

i could care less about Ramsey off the field, but I care what he did(he's past tense now) for the Skins on the field. Which was basically nothing. I don't get the love he garners here.

[whistleandthumb]

I believe I have, many times.

There's certainly no denying that!! :)

And, again, I think criticism of his play is warranted, and that's mostly what we should focus our issue on anyway. Plenty of players have bad attitudes, but as long as they are producing on the field, we overlook it. If we want to get rid of him, let's do it because he's not producing (which he is not), and not because what some media moron reports.

[joethefan]

I think he'd be a great #3 (eventual #2 once Brunell retires) but he doesn't want that and I respect his competiveness. My faith in Ramsey was always more faith in Joe Gibbs' coaching than anything else.


once he learns how to read defenses and throw the ball away as opposed to up in the air....then maybe he can get some things done.

[keepramsey]

There's certainly no denying that!! :)

And, again, I think criticism of his play is warranted, and that's mostly what we should focus our issue on anyway. Plenty of players have bad attitudes, but as long as they are producing on the field, we overlook it. If we want to get rid of him, let's do it because he's not producing (which he is not), and not because what some media moron reports.



well hello WAT!

most logical post i have read here regarding PR.
i would only add, that we should not go after a draft pick, but package him for a DL.
that way we actually/positivley get something we can use next year.


kr

[silverspring]

Right...because Don Vito and Prisco trash the Skins, we shouldn't listen to any media reports. :rolleyes: No one denied this report at all. And considering that Ramsey whined before and demanded to be traded before in 04, this is extremely plausible.


i just don't understand what seems to be your obsession with bashing ramsey. We get it you don't like him, in fact you seem to despise the fact that he is able to breath air on the same planet as you. It is one thing not to support him but this guy is a saint compared to most nfl players and there certainly is no reason to trash him over and over. Maybe you are just having fun provoking people but i think it is just a bit too much. I can only imagine your domicile has a shooting range out back with life size ramsey posters on it. Did you lose some money or something because of him? Seriously you are putting a lot of energy into trashing someone who is inevitable on his way out anyways, he may not have been up to par on the field but i believe he always had good work ethic and was a respectful skin. If anything we need to hype him up so we can get something out of him i don't see what is gained by relentless bashing of ramsey.

[Keino]

i just don't understand what seems to be your obsession with bashing ramsey. We get it you don't like him, in fact you seem to despise the fact that he is able to breath air on the same planet as you. It is one thing not to support him but this guy is a saint compared to most nfl players and there certainly is no reason to trash him over and over. Maybe you are just having fun provoking people but i think it is just a bit too much. I can only imagine your domicile has a shooting range out back with life size ramsey posters on it. Did you lose some money or something because of him? Seriously you are putting a lot of energy into trashing someone who is inevitable on his way out anyways, he may not have been up to par on the field but i believe he always had good work ethic and was a respectful skin. If anything we need to hype him up so we can get something out of him i don't see what is gained by relentless bashing of ramsey.


I think the issue is that so many around here bashed Joe Gibbs, even when he was proven right, about how he treated Ramsey, and as such has caused many of us, myself included, to not be able to wait for the day that Ramsey was no longer a Skin. The "He was never given a fair chance" mantra has not only gotten way old, but it is far from accurate.

Furthermore, I don't think demanding a trade is the "Respectful Skin" way of handling the fact that you now have to compete for the job with a Vet.

People have made Ramsey out to be the next Brett Favre and have stopped just short of calling him a savior with a strong arm. What you see out of Ahk and to a lesser extent, myself, is weariness associated with that point of view that has caused enormous amounts of venom to be aimed at Ramsey's play. Anyone who looks at the facts and not what ifs will undoubtedly come to the conclusion that Ramsey didn't get it done here, and thats that. I wish him luck elsewhere, but if he still has the same issues in his game he won't have much.

[akhhorus]

i just don't understand what seems to be your obsession with bashing ramsey. We get it you don't like him, in fact you seem to despise the fact that he is able to breath air on the same planet as you. It is one thing not to support him but this guy is a saint compared to most nfl players and there certainly is no reason to trash him over and over.

Ok, I could care less about Ramsey and once he's gone I won't give him two thoughts, but I just don't get the love affairs people have with him here. He did next to nothing for the skins yet some people here think we're dumping John Elway.

Maybe you are just having fun provoking people but i think it is just a bit too much. I can only imagine your domicile has a shooting range out back with life size ramsey posters on it.

Actually I did that with pictures of Brunell in 2004.

Did you lose some money or something because of him? Seriously you are putting a lot of energy into trashing someone who is inevitable on his way out anyways, he may not have been up to par on the field but i believe he always had good work ethic and was a respectful skin.

Who cares if he had a good work ethic or was "respectful"(which I disagree with by the way). He sucked and did nothing to earn the job he was whined for. And I would like to point out, that Im not starting the Ramsey debates, it is always someone else who talks about how good he is/could be or that we should get a 1st rounder or something for him in a trade. He is what he is. And I was the first to trash Brunell when he sucked and defended Ramsey. I'm just disappointed in my fellow fans that they are still pining for a guy who frankly can't be a starter in the NFL over a 36 year old Qb.

If anything we need to hype him up so we can get something out of him i don't see what is gained by relentless bashing of ramsey.

Oh yeah because NFL gms check out fan boards to see how valuable a player is that they might want to trade for :rolleyes:

[akhhorus]

I think the issue is that so many around here bashed Joe Gibbs, even when he was proven right, about how he treated Ramsey, and as such has caused many of us, myself included, to not be able to wait for the day that Ramsey was no longer a Skin. The "He was never given a fair chance" mantra has not only gotten way old, but it is far from accurate.

Furthermore, I don't think demanding a trade is the "Respectful Skin" way of handling the fact that you now have to compete for the job with a Vet.

People have made Ramsey out to be the next Brett Favre and have stopped just short of calling him a savior with a strong arm. What you see out of Ahk and to a lesser extent, myself, is weariness associated with that point of view that has caused enormous amounts of venom to be aimed at Ramsey's play. Anyone who looks at the facts and not what ifs will undoubtedly come to the conclusion that Ramsey didn't get it done here, and thats that. I wish him luck elsewhere, but if he still has the same issues in his game he won't have much.

Thank you.

[dallasadmin]

People have made Ramsey out to be the next Brett Favre and have stopped just short of calling him a savior with a strong arm. What you see out of Ahk and to a lesser extent, myself, is weariness associated with that point of view that has caused enormous amounts of venom to be aimed at Ramsey's play. Anyone who looks at the facts and not what ifs will undoubtedly come to the conclusion that Ramsey didn't get it done here, and thats that. I wish him luck elsewhere, but if he still has the same issues in his game he won't have much.

I wonder if we'll be seeing the same arguments about Campbell if he falters in the years to come? ... Of course we will, we're skins fans and love nothing as much as we love a good QB controversy.
Go Sonny!

And for what it's worth, Ramsey did not get the job done. I wish him the best but he will not be here next year and deservedly so.

[danny's stogie]

I think the issue is that so many around here bashed Joe Gibbs, even when he was proven right, about how he treated Ramsey, and as such has caused many of us, myself included, to not be able to wait for the day that Ramsey was no longer a Skin. The "He was never given a fair chance" mantra has not only gotten way old, but it is far from accurate.

Furthermore, I don't think demanding a trade is the "Respectful Skin" way of handling the fact that you now have to compete for the job with a Vet.

People have made Ramsey out to be the next Brett Favre and have stopped just short of calling him a savior with a strong arm. What you see out of Ahk and to a lesser extent, myself, is weariness associated with that point of view that has caused enormous amounts of venom to be aimed at Ramsey's play. Anyone who looks at the facts and not what ifs will undoubtedly come to the conclusion that Ramsey didn't get it done here, and thats that. I wish him luck elsewhere, but if he still has the same issues in his game he won't have much.


Another point is that the majority of Ramsey idolatry went hand in hand with irrational Brunell bashing. I know that we were all scarred by Brunell's 04 performance, but to not give him credit for 05 is absurd. He deserved an NFC pro bowl bid behind Hass and Delhomme and we fans should thank the higher powers for his resurrection and show a little gratitude for him coming back despite the abuse he took from us last season. It's OK to say you were wrong about Brunell, because every one of us but Joe Gibbs was wrong, heck, it's even OK to bite your tongue and not say anything at all, but to still harbor bad feelings towards him because he outperformed Ramsey is downright rotten and shows that you care more about a certain player than you do about the burgundy and gold.

One of the lowest things I've seen on this website was the, "Are We Really a Running Team?" thread started by PaintedBird. On the surface it looked like it might be a legitimate question, but after reading his first post it turned out that the topic was nothing more than a ruse used to facilitate his underhanded bashing of Brunell. He should have just came out and said what he wanted to say: "Brunell sucks, I love Ramsey, :cry: "

[HAWGZHEAD]

One of the lowest things I've seen on this website was the, "Are We Really a Running Team?" thread started by PaintedBird. On the surface it looked like it might be a legitimate question, but after reading his first post it turned out that the topic was nothing more than a ruse used to facilitate his underhanded bashing of Brunell. He should have just came out and said what he wanted to say: "Brunell sucks, I love Ramsey, :cry: "Ugh that thread made me want to vomit...

[akhhorus]

Another point is that the majority of Ramsey idolatry went hand in hand with irrational Brunell bashing. I know that we were all scarred by Brunell's 04 performance, but to not give him credit for 05 is absurd. He deserved an NFC pro bowl bid behind Hass and Delhomme and we fans should thank the higher powers for his resurrection and show a little gratitude for him coming back despite the abuse he took from us last season. It's OK to say you were wrong about Brunell, because every one of us but Joe Gibbs was wrong, heck, it's even OK to bite your tongue and not say anything at all, but to still harbor bad feelings towards him because he outperformed Ramsey is downright rotten and shows that you care more about a certain player than you do about the burgundy and gold.

One of the lowest things I've seen on this website was the, "Are We Really a Running Team?" thread started by PaintedBird. On the surface it looked like it might be a legitimate question, but after reading his first post it turned out that the topic was nothing more than a ruse used to facilitate his underhanded bashing of Brunell. He should have just came out and said what he wanted to say: "Brunell sucks, I love Ramsey, :cry: "

I liked how he tried to claim that Ramsey was the better QB because he had a better QB rating than Brunell did in 05 in 20something passes as compared to Brunell's 450 passes. Or how about the thread he started asking whether Saunders will change the QB, which was really another "Brunell Sucks, I love Ramsey" thread. I think all his posts were on that subject really....

[hail2skins]

Why are you all even wasting time talking about PaintedBird.

[HAWGZHEAD]

Why are you all even wasting time talking about PaintedBird.Because we all secretly miss him?:flower1:

[danny's stogie]

I liked how he tried to claim that Ramsey was the better QB because he had a better QB rating than Brunell did in 05 in 20something passes as compared to Brunell's 450 passes. Or how about the thread he started asking whether Saunders will change the QB, which was really another "Brunell Sucks, I love Ramsey" thread. I think all his posts were on that subject really....

Oh man, I forgot about that one, and to think that only a week seperated the creation of those two threads. Can you imagine a full offseason like that...

"Does Gibbs only value players who save his life?"

"How much influence do water boys have on the starting lineup?" ... leading to: of course water boys get more water for the older players and consequently spend more time with them, thus...

"The better pass blocker: Jansen or Samuels?" ...leading to the inevitable: of course Jansen is and that's why...


Why are you all even wasting time talking about PaintedBird.

I know, sorry. It justs burns me up when people rip Brunell, or any other Redskin for that matter, without a good reason.

[Biggie]

On the subject of PaintedBird, whatever happened to Councilman?

[akhhorus]

On the subject of PaintedBird, whatever happened to Councilman?

He was temp banned for a bit, came back, then left. Then came back in his old REAL RICK Id, then left for awhile. He would leave for awhile when the whole board would start trashing him again. Then he came back as DEFENSEGURU, and eventually got banned for good.

[Biggie]

He was temp banned for a bit, came back, then left. Then came back in his old REAL RICK Id, then left for awhile. Then he came back as DEFENSEGURU, and eventually got banned for good.

Oh, Defenseguru was him? I thought so.

As for Ramsey, I think he might probably be a Miami Dolphin next year. I think it was Saban that offered the first-rounder for him in 2004, and I think a year of Gibbs' coaching has made him a capable game-manager (see the second Giants game). The Dolphins want to run and play defense, and Ramsey has enough to feed the ball to McMichael and Chambers. Besides, Ramsey would be torn to shreds in New York; too much pressure on him. Besides, he would be a lot cheaper than Drew Brees and Daunte Culpepper, and if Guss Frerotte can lead that team to 9-7, I imagine a quarterback could get them into the wild-card.

[danny's stogie]

He was temp banned for a bit, came back, then left. Then came back in his old REAL RICK Id, then left for awhile. He would leave for awhile when the whole board would start trashing him again. Then he came back as DEFENSEGURU, and eventually got banned for good.

Oh my, I had no idea. I didn't even notice DEFENSEGURU was here or that he was banned so I searched his posts:

http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=619846&postcount=59

Classic Councilman.

[Biggie]

and a tight end who can catch. I thought we had one in Cooley but Gibbs keeps throwing the ball to Royal despite that. I don't really get that. So if Gibbs is hell bent on not throwing to Cooley, then I guess we need a tight end who can catch.

That is, by far, the stupidest thing anyone has ever said on this board.*

Note: At the time of Rick's post, Cooley had 49 receptions. For purposes of comparison, Tony Gonzalez had 58, and Antonio Gates had 59. Considering that these are two of the best tight ends in football, I would say Cooley was doing well.

[whitskins]

That is, by far, the stupidest thing anyone has ever said on this board.

I was dying to bring that post back up after Cooley caught 3 TDs in one half against Dallas and finished near the top in NFL TEs in both receptions and yards, but alas, it was too late.

[akhhorus]

Oh my, I had no idea. I didn't even notice DEFENSEGURU was here or that he was banned so I searched his posts:

http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=619846&postcount=59

Classic Councilman.

Same tone, same d-baggery. I won a free drink from Redskin_Rich for spotting him first.

[silverspring]

well i get it, so i guess the argument is that ramsey deserves to be villified because people villified gibbs and brunell and because there are people like me that actually like ramsey. That makes sense:rolleyes:

By all means carry on...

[akhhorus]

well i get it, so i guess the argument is that ramsey deserves to be villified because people villified gibbs and brunell and because there are people like me that actually like ramsey. That makes sense:rolleyes:

By all means carry on...

No, the argument is that people were trashing Gibbs for benching Ramsey for Brunell only to be completely proven wrong (the venom towards Gibbs here was dispicable when Ramsey was benched) and Ramsey has done nothing in four years to warrant the defense he gets. The point is that a lot of people are sick of the excuse making that people make for him for the crap he gave us on the field and there is a clique here that loves Ramsey irrationally. If you and the Ramseyites are going to back him no matter what, then you should have no complaint when we trash him. And we aren't Villifying him, we just don't think he's that good and whines when benched.

Don't worry, Ramsey will only be a relevant issue for another week or so.

[Smurf85]

I agree to many people stick up for Ramsey.He has done nothing for this team and i say good bye.Yes it might not be his fault i blame Spurrier.Still with that being said he has to go im sick of him and i dont think we are going to get to much for him.

[danny's stogie]

Same tone, same d-baggery. I won a free drink from Redskin_Rich for spotting him first.

Geez, you're gonna need to win a room at the Betty Ford clinic before long.

Edit: How many people are you in to for free booze? Rich, myself, JTF right?...

[akhhorus]

Geez, you're gonna need to win a room at the Betty Ford clinic before long.

Do you want to go ahead and pay off our bet already? :D

[danny's stogie]

Do you want to go ahead and pay off our bet already? :D

Betty Ford (http://www.bettyfordcenter.org/), Vince Young, double or nothing?

[akhhorus]

Betty Ford, Vince Young, double or nothing?

huh?

[danny's stogie]

huh?

The payoff, the wager, the stakes = Betty Ford, Vince Young, double or nothing?

[akhhorus]

The payoff, the wager, the stakes = Betty Ford, Vince Young, double or nothing?

Nah. Pass. We'll keep our original bet.

[hail2skins]

Oh my, I had no idea. I didn't even notice DEFENSEGURU was here or that he was banned so I searched his posts:

http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=619846&postcount=59

Classic Councilman.You had to remind me. :banghead:

[redskin_rich]

Same tone, same d-baggery. I won a free drink from Redskin_Rich for spotting him first.
LOL, I don't think anyone else had a chance, you had it pegged within 5 minutes of my bet proposal.



For all the lovers and haters of Ramsey, your pain will be over this week. Mark Maske or Jason LaConoforia from the WashPost was on the TK show today and said Ramsey would be dealt by Friday. Take it for what its worth...

[silverspring]

Don't worry, Ramsey will only be a relevant issue for another week or so.

I will be very suprised if that happens. I hope he is dealt before the draft but i have a feeling he won't be and the skins will blow it and we will probably give him away for almost nothing and then a week later 3 starting qbs will spontaneously implode and we will be cursing ourselves.

[Keino]

No, the argument is that people were trashing Gibbs for benching Ramsey for Brunell only to be completely proven wrong (the venom towards Gibbs here was dispicable when Ramsey was benched) and Ramsey has done nothing in four years to warrant the defense he gets. The point is that a lot of people are sick of the excuse making that people make for him for the crap he gave us on the field and there is a clique here that loves Ramsey irrationally. If you and the Ramseyites are going to back him no matter what, then you should have no complaint when we trash him. And we aren't Villifying him, we just don't think he's that good and whines when benched.

Don't worry, Ramsey will only be a relevant issue for another week or so.
I would only add that Joe Gibbs on the other hand deserved a helluva lot more respect than he got on the board from a helluva lot of people who haven't been man or woman enough to come here and say how wrong they were. The 3 Superbowls and memories should've been enough to trust in the fact that Maybe he knew what the heck he was doing to warrant the benefit of the doubt when the Ramsy benching occured.

And one other point, you won't find anyone vilifying Ramsey, only using factual analysis to show that his play is largely overrated by this board and this fanbase in general.

Why doesn't anyone remember that Ramsey was handed the keys to the offense and everytime it sputtered. That in his very real opportunity to sieze control of the job, Ramsey failed miserably, and Gibbs saved our season by pulling the plug

[akhhorus]

I will be very suprised if that happens. I hope he is dealt before the draft but i have a feeling he won't be and the skins will blow it and we will probably give him away for almost nothing and then a week later 3 starting qbs will spontaneously implode and we will be cursing ourselves.

10 starters could go down and you won't get more than the 3rd for Ramsey. Why give up much for him when you can have a Gus Frerotte, Matt Schaub, Senaca Wallace, Aaron Brooks or any of 5 others who have more value than Ramsey.

[akhhorus]

I would only add that Joe Gibbs on the other hand deserved a helluva lot more respect than he got on the board from a helluva lot of people who haven't been man or woman enough to come here and say how wrong they were. The 3 Superbowls and memories should've been enough to trust in the fact that Maybe he knew what the heck he was doing to warrant the benefit of the doubt when the Ramsy benching occured.

And one other point, you won't find anyone vilifying Ramsey, only using factual analysis to show that his play is largely overrated by this board and this fanbase in general.

Why doesn't anyone remember that Ramsey was handed the keys to the offense and everytime it sputtered. That in his very real opportunity to sieze control of the job, Ramsey failed miserably, and Gibbs saved our season by pulling the plug

Hey, don't villify Ramsey, we shouldn't say publically how much he sucks here at HR because it might decrease his trade value! :D

[ShaggySkins]

I'll be happy when Ramsey is gone. Thats not to say that I wish him any ill will but I've just never been a big fan. He holds the ball too long and takes way too many sacks. There has been enough excuses for the guy here in Washington from Spurrier to the OL to not being given enough chances. I think he needs a change of scenary and the organization needs a fresh start with Jason Campbell. Its a win-win in my book I just hope we can get a mid round pick for him.

[HAWGZHEAD]

Oh my, I had no idea. I didn't even notice DEFENSEGURU was here or that he was banned so I searched his posts:

http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=619846&postcount=59

Classic Councilman.HA, I guess miracles do happen lol.

[helimech24]

HA, I guess miracles do happen lol.Guess it is good to be a homer once in a while,lol. What a moron that guy was.

[bgforever]

10 starters could go down and you won't get more than the 3rd for Ramsey. Why give up much for him when you can have a Gus Frerotte, Matt Schaub, Senaca Wallace, Aaron Brooks or any of 5 others who have more value than Ramsey.


shhh :lol1:

[smoak]

John Clayton is on Mike&Mike reporting that he feels the Jets will get Ramsey for about a sixth round pick. I'd hope it would at least be a conditional deal where the pick could be higher in '07.

I'm not saying that Clayton is right, but it makes a lot more sense to me (from the Jets persepective) that someone giving us a 3rd rounder.

He also said that his gut feeling is that the Redskins will do everything they can to get Campbell ready to start in '06. Brunell would probably open as the starter but the coaching staff loves Campbell and they want to get him in there sooner rather than later. I hope they made the right call on this guy!

[S.Taylor36]

John Clayton is on Mike&Mike reporting that he feels the Jets will get Ramsey for about a sixth round pick. I'd hope it would at least be a conditional deal where the pick could be higher in '07.

I'm not saying that Clayton is right, but it makes a lot more sense to me (from the Jets persepective) that someone giving us a 3rd rounder.

He also said that his gut feeling is that the Redskins will do everything they can to get Campbell ready to start in '06. Brunell would probably open as the starter but the coaching staff loves Campbell and they want to get him in there sooner rather than later. I hope they made the right call on this guy!

I listened to Mike & MIke this morning as well and I cringed when Clayton said a 6th Round pick. Mike Greenberg laughed and said he'd give us 2 6th Rounders. I really hope we can get more than just a 6th Round pick for him. I was hoping for a 4th rounder. Either way Ramsey will be gone in a week.

I can see it now...Ramsey to Coles in New York. It's gonna be a rough season for the Jets.

[smoak]

I listened to Mike & MIke this morning as well and I cringed when Clayton said a 6th Round pick. Mike Greenberg laughed and said he'd give us 2 6th Rounders. I really hope we can get more than just a 6th Round pick for him. I was hoping for a 4th rounder. Either way Ramsey will be gone in a week.

I can see it now...Ramsey to Coles in New York. It's gonna be a rough season for the Jets.

Ramsey and Coles had something going under Spurrier so who knows. It really sounds like the Jets are going to draft a RB so I'm guessing P-Ram would be better served going somewhere else. The Jets aren't going to pay a Cutler or Young high first round money to sit...

But for whatever reason I am wondering if it isn't a smoke screen and their real interest is D'Brick?? Who knows.

Either way, I am not expecting MORE than a fourth like some people are thinking we'll get.

[S.Taylor36]

Ramsey and Coles had something going under Spurrier so who knows. It really sounds like the Jets are going to draft a RB so I'm guessing P-Ram would be better served going somewhere else. The Jets aren't going to pay a Cutler or Young high first round money to sit...

But for whatever reason I am wondering if it isn't a smoke screen and their real interest is D'Brick?? Who knows.

Either way, I am not expecting MORE than a fourth like some people are thinking we'll get.

I agree, if we get a 4th round pick for Ramsey at this point I'd be happy. I just want this to be over so we can move on.

[smoak]

I agree, if we get a 4th round pick for Ramsey at this point I'd be happy. I just want this to be over so we can move on.

All this reminds me of the people who argued we should hold out for no less that second rounder b/c Gardner was drafted in the first round. :rolleyes:

[S.Taylor36]

All this reminds me of the people who argued we should hold out for no less that second rounder b/c Gardner was drafted in the first round. :rolleyes:

Exactly, just because Ramsey was a 1st round pick doesn't mean we get a high pick for him in return. His peformance does match his draft position. Teams are not dumb, they have seen what Ramsey has done and to this point it has not been much.

[joethefan]

I keep telling people that everyone that we'll be lucky if we can get a papa john's pizza.

[vabeach_skinsfan]

I keep telling people that everyone that we'll be lucky if we can get a papa john's pizza.

Can we atleast get pepperoni on it???:)

[helimech24]

Can we atleast get pepperoni on it???:)
is adding sausage reaching?

[smoak]

is adding sausage reaching?

Pappa Johns will throw in a free topping for each touchdown Ramsey throws in '06.

Sausage and pepperoni are definitely a reach.

[helimech24]

Pappa Johns will throw in a free topping for each touchdown Ramsey throws in '06.

Sausage and pepperoni is definitely a reach.Shoot, he might go into the negatives and we will have to give back the cheese on the pizza.

[danny's stogie]

Shoot, he might go into the negatives and we will have to give back the cheese on the pizza.

If Bobby Ramsey winds up with the Jets and their Oline I think a safer bet would be a free topping for every bone he breaks.

[HAWGZHEAD]

Shoot, he might go into the negatives and we will have to give back the cheese on the pizza.They will just bring you the left over crusts of a pizza they ate at the store.

[chrisbcbu]

This is one funny trade rumor but it is about Ramsey. How about to the Bills? 1 Tulane QB to take the place of another Tulane QB.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060228/SPORTS0101/602280328/1007/SPORTS
The Washington Redskins are trying to trade quarterback Patrick Ramsey. He might be worth a fourth-round pick if the Bills are interested and that's all it would take.

[danny's stogie]

This is one funny trade rumor but it is about Ramsey. How about to the Bills? 1 Tulane QB to take the place of another Tulane QB.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060228/SPORTS0101/602280328/1007/SPORTS

How is that the Skins are consistently dubbed by pundits as the most poorly run franchise in the NFL when the Bills have been worse over the last several years? Bledsoe, Lossman, Holcombe, Ramsey? Either make up your mind or do a better job evaluating talent.

[S.Taylor36]

How is that the Skins are consistently dubbed by pundits as the most poorly run franchise in the NFL when the Bills have been worse over the last several years? Bledsoe, Lossman, Holcombe, Ramsey? Either make up your mind or do a better job evaluating talent.

I'm sorry I thought we were talking about Papa John's Pizza here. I love pizza. If we get a few slices and some cheese sticks for Ramsey I'd take it.

[danny's stogie]

I'm sorry I thought we were talking about Papa John's Pizza here. I love pizza. If we get a few slices and some cheese sticks for Ramsey I'd take it.

Is this better?


How is that the Skins are consistently dubbed by pundits as the most poorly run franchise in the NFL when the Bills have been worse over the last several years? Bledsoe, Lossman, Holcombe, Ramsey, Red Barron, Pizza Hut, Stoffer's French Bread? Either make up your mind or do a better job evaluating talent and pizza.

[S.Taylor36]

Is this better?

Lol, Perfect.

[SkinsASchamps]

No confirmed source but i heard ramsey was traded to miami... Im looking. anyone else hear this?

edit: could be wrong but... am checking into it.

[SkinsASchamps]

nevermind. it was a lie. on mike and mike there were joking about it. i came in late on the convo. sorry

[S.Taylor36]

No confirmed source but i heard ramsey was traded to miami... Im looking. anyone else hear this?

edit: could be wrong but... am checking into it.

Where did u hear this?

[bantu]

No confirmed source but i heard ramsey was traded to miami... Im looking. anyone else hear this?

edit: could be wrong but... am checking into it.

Where did u hear this??

[danny's stogie]

nevermind. it was a lie. on mike and mike there were joking about it. i came in late on the convo. sorry

Darn, you interrupted my jig.

[bgforever]

yummy! Lunch's over and back on the clock for CBA Watch we have the likely scenario of a pick obtained by trading Ramsey.

This wouldn't necessarily be a package, except for the CBA determing how deeply dependant we will be on draftees, undrafted and lesser FA's or at least cheaper,but not as talented players.

The package comes to mind, should we get a CBA agreement and seek a 2nd and 2 3rd rounders and then go after a DE/DT/TE/P/CB/K/WR in the 2nd, OT in the 3rd, OG in the 3rd

[S.Taylor36]

nevermind. it was a lie. on mike and mike there were joking about it. i came in late on the convo. sorry

got me excited for a second, I thought we got pizza

[SkinsASchamps]

sorry fellas. I am real sick and am on a lot of meds. I was listening to the radio and they were kidding on mike and mike about what he is worth and they mentioned miami as a possibility. I thought they meant he was traded. I am so sorry. My apology.

[SkinsASchamps]

got me excited for a second, I thought we got pizza

Yeah they said something about us getting a day at the beach in miami in return for him...

[HAWGZHEAD]

Darn, you interrupted my jig.:lol1:

[SkinsASchamps]

Darn, you interrupted my jig.

Sorry. I wish it was true too. Hopefully soon.

[bgforever]

sorry fellas. I am real sick and am on a lot of meds. I was listening to the radio and they were kidding on mike and mike about what he is worth and they mentioned miami as a possibility. I thought they meant he was traded. I am so sorry. My apology.


No problem, sick of waiting for the CBA news, and pizza sounds great! :)

Miami maybe,maybe not, New Orleans, very likely (wouldn't be a trade for Joe Horn, so a draft pick is more logical). Miami is only a trading partner, as I see it, but a HIGH pick in the round Miami has is MORE attractive when put with a 5th rounder to climb up to the 3rd round middle spot and get an O Lineman, LB, TE.

[S.Taylor36]

sorry fellas. I am real sick and am on a lot of meds. I was listening to the radio and they were kidding on mike and mike about what he is worth and they mentioned miami as a possibility. I thought they meant he was traded. I am so sorry. My apology.

No worries

[Redskin4Life]

Hey guys, isn't it interesting that the Jets are reportedly offering a 6th for Ramsey and NOW we're hearing that the Bills will take Ramsey for a 4th???

I know it's insane, especially from all the arguments most of you guys have made. But with not too many good/healthy QBs available, do you think some teams are looking at Ramsey as a stop gap for a young QB or a backup for their QB that's not healthy? And maybe they'll be willing to give up a first day pick?

If the AFC East teams go at it for Ramsey, it might happen... if the Bills rumor is true, we've got a 4th round offer in our hands.

[SkinsASchamps]

No problem, sick of waiting for the CBA news, and pizza sounds great! :)

Miami maybe,maybe not, New Orleans, very likely (wouldn't be a trade for Joe Horn, so a draft pick is more logical). Miami is only a trading partner, as I see it, but a HIGH pick in the round Miami has is MORE attractive when put with a 5th rounder to climb up to the 3rd round middle spot and get an O Lineman, LB, TE.

I think the jets are a viable option. If they clear space then I see them as the front runners.

[helimech24]

Is this better?We might only get one of the stoffer's french bread pizzas out of the box for Ramsey. No deliver will be accepted or offered.

[Redskin4Life]

What about Ramsey for Calvin Pace (a young DE from Arizona)? Arizona's possibly going to let him go and the last DE they let go was Vanden Bosch.

6-4, 270, 25 yrs old. In 2004, he had 5 sacks and 2 FF. Was a highly touted first rounder out of Wake Forest. If in the right system, I think he could be the pass rush specialist we need here. And cheaper than Abe.

[bgforever]

I think the jets are a viable option. If they clear space then I see them as the front runners.


I believe this team is the one that holds the trump, but I also see a problem getting the pick we want.

[silverspring]

I heard the jets were offering the skins a 3rd rounder in exchange for us promising not to make any other trades with them this year.

I think we should hold out for a 2nd rounder though.

[akhhorus]

I heard the jets were offering the skins a 3rd rounder in exchange for us promising not to make any other trades with them this year.

I think we should hold out for a 2nd rounder though.

I dont care who you are, thats funny :lol1:

What about Ramsey for Calvin Pace (a young DE from Arizona)? Arizona's possibly going to let him go and the last DE they let go was Vanden Bosch.

6-4, 270, 25 yrs old. In 2004, he had 5 sacks and 2 FF. Was a highly touted first rounder out of Wake Forest. If in the right system, I think he could be the pass rush specialist we need here. And cheaper than Abe.


Interesting, but he's had some attitude problems. I would rather offer Ramsey to the Jets for Bryan Thomas. But Ramsey for a pass rushing DE would be a good move.

[joethefan]

I heard the jets were offering the skins a 3rd rounder in exchange for us promising not to make any other trades with them this year.

I think we should hold out for a 2nd rounder though.


That ia funny I cracked up when I read that...

[Redskin4Life]

Interesting, but he's had some attitude problems. I would rather offer Ramsey to the Jets for Bryan Thomas. But Ramsey for a pass rushing DE would be a good move.
I thought the Jets were trading Abe with the intent of Thomas getting more play time and growing into the player they expected him to be.

[HanburgerBum]

We would be getting train robbed if we gave up Pat for a 5th or 6th rounder IMO. It is ridiculous to just throw away a former first rounder that has not thrived under horrid coaching for most of his young career. Ramsey would be ideal for any number of teams looking for a fresh start at QB. Patrick is going to heat up on the market here in a bit as teams get anxious to bring him in. I think that Ramsey low value is a result of the anti-Redskin sentiment throughout the media. Except this time, it really hurts us.

In addition, I would take a lot longer look at Ramsey before a guy like Pennington who has little upside and is an accident waiting to happen. McNair is out of juice. Culpeper will get some real long looks and deservingly so. A guy I would look out for is Matt Schaub, the young backup in Atlanta. He has looked sharp in his limited playing time and might attract some teams.


I think you are at least a year too late. After the 2004 season, Miami was apparently willing to give up a mid-first rounder for Ramsey. In one of the very few mistakes Gibbs has made upon his return, he decided to keep Ramsey because Brunell had been horrendous in 2004 and Patrick was looked upon as the starter in 2005. Well, that Ramsey for a first rounder boat has sailed. In the meantime, PR has shown that he has trouble reading defenses, is slow to get rid of the ball and fumbles just about every other time he is hit. He is far from a sure thing as a starting NFL QB.

The truth is that Ramsey is worth what the market says he is worth. Just because the Skins spent a No. 1 pick on him or just because some homer fan like you thinks he is worth more doesn't make him worth more. Right now, a 5th or a 6th rounder is probably just about what is being offered. Maybe, some team will come up with a 4th (let's hope so).

Were you also saying Rod Gardner was worth a first day pick because he was a former first rounder? A case can be made that Gardner actually had a better Redskins career than Ramsey has had. And, as you saw, Gardner got the Skins only a 6th.

An argument can be made that since a 5th or a 6th is such low compensation (the drafted player probably won't make the team anyway), perhaps the Skins should just keep Ramsey for 2006 in case Brunell gets injured or ages suddenly and Campbell isn't ready to take over the reins. But, my hunch is that if that scenario plays out, Ramsey won't prove to be the savior and the season would go down the drain in any event. Further, I believe that Gibbs has promised Patrick, in exchange for his good behavior this past season, that Patrick will be traded or released if he is not the projected starter. And, I don't see Gibbs renaging on his promise.

[HanburgerBum]

What will kill Ramsey's value is three things:
1-He whined(well had his agent whine) publically each time he was benched. That says a lot about his maturity.
2-That his reputation around the league is that he cannot read a defense.
3-That he regressed as a QB between 04 and 05. He looked like total crap in the preseason and in the chicago game, then Brunell comes in and looks like-arguably-a pro bowler with the same talent that Ramsey struggled with.

If anyone gives us a 4th rounder, we should be really happy about it.


I agree 100% with you that Ramsey has not proven that he is a starting NFL QB, that trading him is the right thing to do, and that a 4th rounder is probably the best the Skins can hope for in return.

But, I think it is a little unfair to call Ramsey a whiner. I don't know how accurate is the report of his storming into Gibbs office to demand a trade or whether his agent went public with a trade demand at his behest. But, even if we assume those things to be true, I still think Ramsey has not behaved badly.

Unlike Lavar (whose public whining is really hard to take), whatever transgressions Patrick may have commited behind the scenes, he has not embarrassed the organization. Whenver asked, Ramsey has always said the "right" things and he has supported Brunell. In fact, Gibbs has often gone out of his way to praise Ramsey for the way Patrick has conducted himself this season. PR has many shortcomings, but public whining to embarrass the team is not one of them.

[HAWGZHEAD]

I dont care who you are, thats funny :lol1:




LOL, yeah I don't think holding out and Patrick Ramsey belong in the same sentence.

[DocScholl]

Where is the DCFU dissing thread Hawgzhead ?

[HAWGZHEAD]

Where is the DCFU dissing thread Hawgzhead ?DCFU?? What is that Doc?

[DocScholl]

DCFU?? What is that Doc?


www.DallasCowboyFansUnited.com/?

My site .


Something about a mock draft ....:rolleyes:

[Biggie]

www.DallasCowboyFansUnited.com/? (http://www.DallasCowboyFansUnited.com/?)

My site .


Something about a mock draft ....:rolleyes:

I'm not sure if you know this or not, but there's a spinning piece of crud in your signature.

[HAWGZHEAD]

www.DallasCowboyFansUnited.com/? (http://www.DallasCowboyFansUnited.com/?)

My site .


Something about a mock draft ....:rolleyes:LOL, I was thinking DC as in Washington DC lol duh.

This? http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=676330&postcount=45 I wouldn't consider this smack talk. Akh responds on page 4 as saying. I am glad my mocks are so popular that I am hated for them.

[3Taylor6]

I think he'd be a great #3 (eventual #2 once Brunell retires) but he doesn't want that and I respect his competiveness. My faith in Ramsey was always more faith in Joe Gibbs' coaching than anything else.

i disagree with that i think that last season there wer def a few teams that would of been better off with ramsey at qb then who they had...he just didnt fit in gibbs offense and no qb besides michael vick could fit in spurriers system without getting sacked 10 times a game....but i am by no means saying ramsey will ever be a great qb

[HAWGZHEAD]

i disagree with that i think that last season there wer def a few teams that would of been better off with ramsey at qb then who they had...he just didnt fit in gibbs offense and no qb besides michael vick could fit in spurriers system without getting sacked 10 times a game....but i am by no means saying ramsey will ever be a great qbI don't know Vick gets sacked 10 times a game in Atl.

[3Taylor6]

I don't know Vick gets sacked 10 times a game in Atl.


haha good point

[akhhorus]

LOL, I was thinking DC as in Washington DC lol duh.

This? http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=676330&postcount=45 I wouldn't consider this smack talk. Akh responds on page 4 as saying. I am glad my mocks are so popular that I am hated for them.

The funniest part is that they were trashing me for a trade I thought up, but they only posted it in the blog here two weeks and two mocks after I did it. I guess they might be a tad slower than normal people?

[HAWGZHEAD]

The funniest part is that they were trashing me for a trade I thought up, but they only posted it in the blog here two weeks and two mocks after I did it. I guess they might be a tad slower than normal people?Someone over at his site knee jerked at seeing that I was talking about something on his site I guess and told him about it. :whoknows:

[akhhorus]

I thought the Jets were trading Abe with the intent of Thomas getting more play time and growing into the player they expected him to be.

Neither one fits the 3-4 they are switching to.

[ShaggySkins]

Either way, I am not expecting MORE than a fourth like some people are thinking we'll get.


John Clayton reported today on ESPN Radio Mike & Mike that the Skins will be getting a 6th round pick at best for Ramsey and he'll be gone by Friday with the Jets as the front runner.

I would do a backflip for a 4th rounder but I've been saying for awhile a 6th or 7th rounder is what we are going to end up with.

[MWballer]

John Clayton reported today on ESPN Radio Mike & Mike that the Skins will be getting a 6th round pick at best for Ramsey and he'll be gone by Friday with the Jets as the front runner.

I would do a backflip for a 4th rounder but I've been saying for awhile a 6th or 7th rounder is what we are going to end up with.

Wow!!! we cant even get a 4th or 5th for the guy. This has to hurt his ego.

[Redskin4Life]

Wow!!! we cant even get a 4th or 5th for the guy. This has to hurt his ego.
Not to mention the fact that he won't get the "payday" he has been expecting to get.... the Jets aren't going to give up a 6th rounder but then sign him to anything more than $1 mil a year deal. Looks like he's better off sitting on our bench and collecting a mil than getting table scraps somewhere else.

[bgforever]

Wow!!! we cant even get a 4th or 5th for the guy. This has to hurt his ego.

What's causing this, IMO is the CBA. Draft picks will be coveted like never before. Only some teams can afford to grab FAs almost at will.

[ShaggySkins]

What's causing this, IMO is the CBA. Draft picks will be coveted like never before. Only some teams can afford to grab FAs almost at will.

I don't think its so much that as there is just a lot of FA talent out there at QB and there are a lot of QBs very middle of the road that I really wouldn't necessarily consider all that much worse or better then Ramsey. Also there are several guys who could possibly be had for a trade that would be considered equal if not better then Patrick. Guys like Kitna, Schaub, Volek, and Jeff Garcia are all out there to be traded for or signed who I wouldn't really consider all that much more or less talented then Patrick.

[bgforever]

I don't think its so much that as there is just a lot of FA talent out there at QB and there are a lot of QBs very middle of the road that I really wouldn't necessarily consider all that much worse or better then Ramsey. Also there are several guys who could possibly be had for a trade that would be considered equal if not better then Patrick. Guys like Kitna, Schaub, Volek, and Jeff Garcia are all out there to be traded for or signed who I wouldn't really consider all that much more or less talented then Patrick.

Yeah I forgot about Kitna and Garcia. That does make a difference, and I imagine the teams that are players in the trade arena can offer as much for them and still others can just sign them and keep their roster pretty much intact.

[Sean Taylor is God]

i think all this jet's talk is good for his value, but i think miami is the most likely place. he is cheap and they have severe cap issues. saban is looking to bring in young guys with experience that he can mold. ramsey fits that and i think we can get a fourth-rounder out of them.

[HawaiianTribe]

If he restructures the $, I'd rather keep him as a backup to old knees and young gun. 5th round, maybe 6th? He's a great backup

[Smurf85]

HawaiianTribe Wrote:
If he restructures the $, I'd rather keep him as a backup to old knees and young gun. 5th round, maybe 6th? He's a great backup

Some problems with that lets see.

1.He does not want to be a backup forever.
2.We have a backup Jason Campbell soon to be starter.
3.He has been here to long.

[Redskin4Life]

Not to mention the fact that he can't restructure... this is the last year of his deal. And we're not going to sign him to a new deal...

[Sean Taylor is God]

our ability to trade ramsey all depends on the CBA. if teams know we are forced to release him the will wait. if it gets done we can wait as teams figure out their qb situations then trade him to a team with needs. in a weird twist though it becomes easier for him to stay here if the CBA gets done because we will have a lot more cap room. football tee's? take it.

[colkurtz]

I think he wants to go somewhere else, and deserves his shot - even if we only get a fourth rounder. He kept quiet after his demotion and has been a competent and reserved backup on the sideline.

The team will trade him, not so much because it will be a great deal, BUT BECAUSE IT IS TIME. Patrick will get a chance somewhere else and the team gets a lower draft pick.

Ramsey's trade value is diluted by a crowded field, but he is still of an unknown talent level at other teams. They may take a chance on him over the Garcia's, etc who are a known quality and older age.

[Sean Taylor is God]

i read on rotoworld that the ravens interest in kitna has waned, and they are focused on collins and ramsey. the carousel is on where will PR land? the contract restructuring's are huge because now we have the luxury of waiting for a better offer. because of recent developments i think we might be able to get a third rounder or higher.

[S.Taylor36]

i read on rotoworld that the ravens interest in kitna has waned, and they are focused on collins and ramsey. the carousel is on where will PR land? the contract restructuring's are huge because now we have the luxury of waiting for a better offer. because of recent developments i think we might be able to get a third rounder or higher.

I really hope with this extended period the Redskins can take advantage of trading Ramsey. If Collins gets released, I think the Ravens are all over him. Collins would love to go to the Ravens and get back together with Jim Fassel. I think Ramsey is either a Jet or Dolphin when it's all said and done. I'm hoping for a 4th round pick.

[Redskin4Life]

I really hope with this extended period the Redskins can take advantage of trading Ramsey. If Collins gets released, I think the Ravens are all over him. Collins would love to go to the Ravens and get back together with Jim Fassel. I think Ramsey is either a Jet or Dolphin when it's all said and done. I'm hoping for a 4th round pick.
Or a Raider... I actually like the idea of Ramsey to Moss or Porter. And I'm not a Ramsey fan. I think he could flourish in a system where you've got great WR, a good coach in Shell and an owner that wants to throw the dang ball!!!!

[Smurf85]

If we are not going to get anything for him.We should just cut him so we can get some more cap room.

[bgforever]

If we are not going to get anything for him.We should just cut him so we can get some more cap room.

Sunday is going to be very interesting in his regard.

[PyroGenic]

If he restructures the $, I'd rather keep him as a backup to old knees and young gun. 5th round, maybe 6th? He's a great backup

there's nothing to restructure, this is the last year of his contract.

[whistleandthumb]

Or a Raider... I actually like the idea of Ramsey to Moss or Porter. And I'm not a Ramsey fan. I think he could flourish in a system where you've got great WR, a good coach in Shell and an owner that wants to throw the dang ball!!!!
Interesting idea, but that would just leave the Raiders with Kerry Collins, Jr.

[natgbz]

Frankly, I'll take a young Ramsey over an aging Collins.

[DoGood]

Interesting idea, but that would just leave the Raiders with Kerry Collins, Jr.

Can anyone tell me what in the world whistle's avatar is? It looks like a dinosaur egg resting on a striped pillow. I have no idea what it is...

[Sean Taylor is God]

Can anyone tell me what in the world whistle's avatar is? It looks like a dinosaur egg resting on a striped pillow. I have no idea what it is...

it's a metaphor.

[HAWGZHEAD]

Can anyone tell me what in the world whistle's avatar is? It looks like a dinosaur egg resting on a striped pillow. I have no idea what it is...Ha, I have wondered the same thing.

[Sean Taylor is God]

Can anyone tell me what in the world whistle's avatar is? It looks like a dinosaur egg resting on a striped pillow. I have no idea what it is...
art nouveau?

[DoGood]

art nouveau?

That doesn't help.:)

[Smurf85]

bgforever Wrote:
Sunday is going to be very interesting in his regard.

I agree i really think if you dont see CBA get done and if there is no trade offer for him.He will be cut, come on really the money is more important to our time right now.We dont need a backup/third stringer getting paid that much.

[FanFromArizona]

Can anyone tell me what in the world whistle's avatar is? It looks like a dinosaur egg resting on a striped pillow. I have no idea what it is...

It looks like "ET" lying down on his back on a bed.

Do I get any points if I am right? I'd settle for a cookie

[akhhorus]

bgforever Wrote:


I agree i really think if you dont see CBA get done and if there is no trade offer for him.He will be cut, come on really the money is more important to our time right now.We dont need a backup/third stringer getting paid that much.

Well, if there's no CBA, and our restructures are filed, the Skins are about 2 million over the projected cap. They could make a couple cuts(Bowen and Raymer) and wait until they get a decent offer for Ramsey. Then deal him and recoup the 1.7 million in cap space. I suspect that someone will deal for him-even if its just for a conditional pick in 07.

[chrisbcbu]

Interesting idea, but that would just leave the Raiders with Kerry Collins, Jr.

Kerry Collins is going to be released. He has a pretty big cap hit. Over 5 million and considering the Raiders are over the cap by well over 20mill he is definately gone.

[DCGreys]

It looks like "ET" lying down on his back on a bed.

Do I get any points if I am right? I'd settle for a cookie
I think you are right but why in black and white?

[Sean Taylor is God]

Well, if there's no CBA, and our restructures are filed, the Skins are about 2 million over the projected cap. They could make a couple cuts(Bowen and Raymer) and wait until they get a decent offer for Ramsey. Then deal him and recoup the 1.7 million in cap space. I suspect that someone will deal for him-even if its just for a conditional pick in 07.
Does the 2 million over the cap figure include the release of any players?

[akhhorus]

Does the 2 million over the cap figure include the release of any players?

Only counting restructures that have been agreed to contigent on there being no CBA. This doesn't count any cuts.

[Sean Taylor is God]

Only counting restructures that have been agreed to contigent on there being no CBA. This doesn't count any cuts.
that's really good news. i kinda don't want the deal to get done now. this way we keep ramsey and trade him before the draft. we will get a better value and can use that 1.7 mill to sign the rookies. god bless dan and his glorious team of number nerds.

[Smurf85]

Well, if there's no CBA, and our restructures are filed, the Skins are about 2 million over the projected cap. They could make a couple cuts(Bowen and Raymer) and wait until they get a decent offer for Ramsey. Then deal him and recoup the 1.7 million in cap space. I suspect that someone will deal for him-even if its just for a conditional pick in 07.

Are you positive on that cap number after the restuctures.

[FanFromArizona]

Are you positive on that cap number after the restuctures.

I would advise not asking Akh if he is positive, the man is a stat machine.
I can pretty much tell you to believe it and don't question it. If there was a Redskins trivia contest between a computer that had all the facts at redskinsdb.com and Akh, I am not sure I could say who would favored to win.

[chrisbcbu]

Are you positive on that cap number after the restuctures.

Right now its really an estimated guess on how well the restructures our. But from just a quick glance it looks pretty close, maybe 1-3 million off. But nothing too significant.

[FanFromArizona]

Possible locations for Ramsey:

1. Jets
2. Dolphins
3. Oakland
4. Cardinals
5. Saints
6. Bills

I can see a Ramsey + Betts trade to Arizona and even possibly to the Jets[they have an aging Curtis Martin who will need to be replaced, I could see Betts filling in the starter role there in 2007] or the Saints [not sure about how sold they are with their running game]. The most logical choice would be Arizona, I could see a trade going for there 3rd rounder or possibly one of their young receivers like Bryant Johnson [which would be a STEAL if we could get this kind of trade]. Arizona has too many line issues and could use their 1st and 2nd rounder picks to address these issues. If they use their cap space to sign Randle, then they would have a glut at the receiver position. Kurt Warner is not the long term answer here, I would bench/train Ramsey for a year and promise him the starter role in 2007.

Everyone else would be a straight up trade for Ramsey.

[akhhorus]

Are you positive on that cap number after the restuctures.

Rough estimation, but I don't think its off by much. Maybe a million or two either way.

I would advise not asking Akh if he is positive, the man is a stat machine.
I can pretty much tell you to believe it and don't question it. If there was a Redskins trivia contest between a computer that had all the facts at redskinsdb.com and Akh, I am not sure I could say who would favored to win.

Not just redskins trivia, but I can smoke people in useless information, random knowledge and stupid facts.

[Keino]

Im just wondering why we are continuing to talk about this.

[Smurf85]

Possible locations for Ramsey:

1. Jets
2. Dolphins
3. Oakland
4. Cardinals
5. Saints
6. Bills

I can see a Ramsey + Betts trade to Arizona and even possibly to the Jets[they have an aging Curtis Martin who will need to be replaced, I could see Betts filling in the starter role there in 2007] or the Saints [not sure about how sold they are with their running game]. The most logical choice would be Arizona, I could see a trade going for there 3rd rounder or possibly one of their young receivers like Bryant Johnson [which would be a STEAL if we could get this kind of trade]. Arizona has too many line issues and could use their 1st and 2nd rounder picks to address these issues. If they use their cap space to sign Randle, then they would have a glut at the receiver position. Kurt Warner is not the long term answer here, I would bench/train Ramsey for a year and promise him the starter role in 2007.

Everyone else would be a straight up trade for Ramsey.

Possible locations for Ramsey his couch at home.:lol1:

[Dept_of_Defense]

I can see a Ramsey + Betts trade to Arizona and even possibly to the Jets[they have an aging Curtis Martin who will need to be replaced, I could see Betts filling in the starter role there in 2007] or the Saints [not sure about how sold they are with their running game]. The most logical choice would be Arizona, I could see a trade going for there 3rd rounder or possibly one of their young receivers like Bryant Johnson [which would be a STEAL if we could get this kind of trade]. Arizona has too many line issues and could use their 1st and 2nd rounder picks to address these issues. If they use their cap space to sign Randle, then they would have a glut at the receiver position. Kurt Warner is not the long term answer here, I would bench/train Ramsey for a year and promise him the starter role in 2007.

Everyone else would be a straight up trade for Ramsey.
I just can't see Ramsey wanting to go to Arizona to be benched this year. I think that he would rather be benched here for another year and try to go somewhere next year. I think that a Betts-Ramsey trade could be possible with NY, but I just heard something about Abraham going to Denver.....so maybe that's up in the air too.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

Im just wondering why we are continuing to talk about this.
well, with that post, you just bumped the topic up. :D


i think the real question is which team sees ramsey as a starter. i dont think any team will trade a high draft pick for a backup who hasnt really shown much. i dont think we'll see another a.j. feeley type deal.

[FanFromArizona]

Not just redskins trivia, but I can smoke people in useless information, random knowledge and stupid facts.

Still waiting to find out what color Toupe is.....:sleeping:

j/k

[Sean Taylor is God]

Still waiting to find out what color Toupe is.....:sleeping:

j/k
i think its beige, who's sara evans?

[HAWGZHEAD]

i think its beige, who's sara evans?Country singer with a balcony you could do shakespear from.

[bgforever]

Can anyone tell me what in the world whistle's avatar is? It looks like a dinosaur egg resting on a striped pillow. I have no idea what it is...

Does it mean "Rock is a sleeper???"

[akhhorus]

Country singer with a balcony you could do shakespear from.

lol...you should be forced to hold a cigar like groucho marx if you're going to post a line like that

http://afi.chadwyck.com/images/home/groucho2.jpg

[HAWGZHEAD]

lol...you should be forced to hold a cigar like groucho marx if you're going to post a line like that




http://afi.chadwyck.com/images/home/groucho2.jpg"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it is too dark to read."



That better? lol

[Keino]

I like Groucho Marx. I would take a trade of all of the Marx Brothers movies + Abbott and Costello's "Who's on 1st" routine, all on DVD of course and 7th rounder for Ramsey.

[Sean Taylor is God]

I like Groucho Marx. I would take a trade of all of the Marx Brothers movies + Abbott and Costello's "Who's on 1st" routine, all on DVD of course and 7th rounder for Ramsey.
i'd take 30 lb's of meat. and a chicken!

[akhhorus]

I like Groucho Marx. I would take a trade of all of the Marx Brothers movies + Abbott and Costello's "Who's on 1st" routine, all on DVD of course and 7th rounder for Ramsey.


Even if they made it a 7th rounder in the WNBA draft...

[akhhorus]

http://afi.chadwyck.com/images/home/groucho2.jpg"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it is too dark to read."



That better? lol


I woke up one morning and Patrick Ramsey was on my roster, how he got there I'll never know..

[RicFlairOne]

lol...you should be forced to hold a cigar like groucho marx if you're going to post a line like that

http://afi.chadwyck.com/images/home/groucho2.jpg

LOL. You can see the 'balcony' from that picture.

[FanFromArizona]

i think its beige, who's sara evans?

there are not many people I idolize, and she is one of them
what a voice and what a bod!

everything is NATURAL if you get my drift!

[DCGreys]

there are not many people I idolize, and she is one of them
what a voice and what a bod!

everything is NATURAL if you get my drift!
she is an amazing talent (and she can sing great also)

[HAWGZHEAD]

Maybe a Dolphin uni is in the future for Ramsey as this article states that Frerotte is likely to be cut with no new CBA.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/football/14014847.htm

[santanadasavior]

Maybe a Dolphin uni is in the future for Ramsey as this article states that Frerotte is likely to be cut with no new CBA.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/football/14014847.htm

Is there any chance we could get Jason Taylor out of that deal?

[akhhorus]

Is there any chance we could get Jason Taylor out of that deal?

If the Dolphins give us Jason Taylor for Ramsey, they should be folded as a franchise.