Cast Your Vote - Good or Bad Trade for Lloyd

[hail2skins]

AS one of my partners always says "You knew it was coming".


What are your thoughts on the Lloyd trade?

[hogs86]

I do not see a poll.But i like it 100% !!

[Sean Taylor is God]

I'm waiting to see the #'s until I make an ultimate decision but overall this is great. We did not give up a lot and we now have a very good #2 and great fill in should moss get hurt. Grade: B+

[IndianBaller27]

I say good trade because two picks isn't really that much. Brandon Lloyd can be a playmaker if in the right situation and this sytem would work well for him.

[skins lady]

Yes, good trade. I think he's a great WR, and we got him pretty cheap. A 3rd this year and a 4th next isn't bad to me. I really want to see him in B and G.

[hail2skins]

I do not see a poll.But i like it 100% !!You should see it.

[redskin_rich]

Thumbs up from me.

[RedskinRyan]

i personally think it will be the best player personnel move we make all offseason. mark my words now.

[MWballer]

Giving up a 3rd and 4th instead of 1st round pick for a young playmaking WR how could you not like this deal.

[smoak]

I'll vote yes now, but I want to see what kind of contract we give Lloyd first.

[flave1969]

I am so tired of giving up picks. If it were one year further on and Lloyd was a UFA then fine.

But I keep thinking what if a good player fell in the draft that we really wanted, what do we have left to get him? When we got Cooley we swapped picks and gave up the next years fourth. Our fourth for next year is gone now as is our third this year, what is there left to trade with if a Cooley type player is available?

I hope Lloyd is cheap.

[NCskinsfanatic]

Good trade IMO. We heard just as much "negative" press on Moss last year and if Lloyd can produce half of what Santana did last year for a 3rd and a future 4th then thats a trade I can get behind. Lloyd is not TO, nobodys TO :rolleyes: and I think he will fall right in line with this staffs expectations.

[GoDannyBoy]

Guy could be trouble. Lets hope good coaching wins out and maybe a clause in is contract if he acts up!

[hail2skins]

I am so tired of giving up picks. If it were one year further on and Lloyd was a UFA then fine.

But I keep thinking what if a good player fell in the draft that we really wanted, what do we have left to get him? When we got Cooley we swapped picks and gave up the next years fourth. Our fourth for next year is gone now as is our third this year, what is there left to trade with if a Cooley type player is available?

I hope Lloyd is cheap.Good points but who thought about Cooley before we drafted him? I don't like giving up picks either but it's the way this team operates and I have accepted it.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Great trade IMO

[hogs86]

You should see it.
I got it and i voted yes.:)

[Red Bear]

i say this is a good trade

[DUCKIN_TACKLERS]

gotta love it we need a #2 WR and we got a player who played as a #1 last year. he will transisiton just fine and will help out this O big time IMO. im really excited about this guy and i dont get excited about many players.

[IMALILTEAPOT]

i dont know, when i heard we were looking at him, i didnt like it. i will embrace him cuz hes a skin now, but im a lil iffy on this trade

[hogs86]

Good points but who thought about Cooley before we drafted him? I don't like giving up picks either but it's the way this team operates and I have accepted it.


You know i was thinking today.George Allen and Joe Gibbs are doing it the same way by tading our draft picks for good veterans.We may never have another #1 draft pick again.But i am ok with that.:rolleyes:

[santanadasavior]

This makes it less likely that we will give up too much money for Randel El. Me likey.

[MONK_in_HOF]

I vote no. While I feel that Lloyd could turn out to be a good player and has good skills, there are a few reasons why I don't like it.

1. I would have preferred an UFA that wouldn't result in losing 2 draft picks.
2. If Lloyd got anywhere near a 10 Million dollar signing bonus, as John Clayton has reported, I think that is a little steep.

I am just disheartend by the way the Skins, IMO, disrespect draft picks. Personally I feel 3rd and 4th round picks are more valuable than many others here seem to. I just think there is quality to be had in the first 4 rounds of most drafts, if nothing esle to bolster depth. Case and point, Lloyd himself was a 4th rounder.

[DCGreys]

great trade. when he gets in that huddle with all those great players, i think he will follow and make plays, not trouble

[DCGreys]

I vote no. While I feel that Lloyd could turn out to be a good player and has good skills, there are a few reasons why I don't like it.

1. I would have preferred an UFA that wouldn't result in losing 2 draft picks.
2. If Lloyd got anywhere near a 10 Million dollar signing bonus, as John Clayton has reported, I think that is a little steep.

I am just disheartend by the way the Skins, IMO, disrespect draft picks. Personally I feel 3rd and 4th round picks are more valuable than many others here seem to. I just think there is quality to be had in the first 4 rounds of most drafts, if nothing esle to bolster depth. Case and point, Lloyd himself was a 4th rounder.
No disrespect, but we have been doing this with draft picks since 1971. This is a very young team, not the Over the Hill Gang, so that should make it more palatable trading draft picks.

[3644Skins]

I think it's a decent trade, we needed another WR that can produce now. While a rookie may have been more exciting it takes at least 2 or 3 years for a WR to hit stride and make an impact in the NFL. Lloyd has been there and done that already, plus he's still young so it's alright to me. The only thing I'm worried about is what kind of contract he will be offered, he shouldn't get Santana Moss money. Don't forget David Patten is still on this team, I truly believe he's going to stand out this year, he's one of the hardest workers in the NFL and he's going to produce this up coming season for us.

[santanadasavior]

i dont know, when i heard we were looking at him, i didnt like it. i will embrace him cuz hes a skin now, but im a lil iffy on this trade

He isn't as gifted in the toughness factor. The clincher for me is that he has amazing hands. He makes some amazing catches and he will be great for us for many reasons.

1. He can stretch the field with Moss and is a very good threat going deep.
2. He will be able to make key catches in shorty yardage/goaline situations.
3. He can burn people in single coverage if they concentrate elsewhere.
4. He WILL take attention away from Moss.

This sounds like a win.

[MONK_in_HOF]

No disrespect, but we have been doing this with draft picks since 1971. This is a very young team, not the Over the Hill Gang, so that should make it more palatable trading draft picks.

I realize that but I just don't like it. I just don't understand why we would give up 2 picks if there are comparable players that could be signed minus the picks.

[chad101]

Very Good trade. I'd pass on El now if I am Washington.
Patton, Moss, Lloyd plus Cooley should make for a good passing attack.

Use the El money to improve elsewhere.

[ItchySkin]

yeah i say pass on R.E. and get a real RE (maybe left)...hehe...I love the Lloyd trade...cant wait for the highlight reels! :)

[SkinsKY]

I'll vote yes now, but I want to see what kind of contract we give Lloyd first.

This is what I'm most concerned about. The third is fine. The fourth next year is fine. The contract is all that i care about in this deal.

I would like to say that I think Lloyd's contract to production will probably be more favoable than Randle El.

[tbfoster1]

I'm down with it. :awesomewo

[skins111111]

I wanted Joe J but figured Lloyd would be signed, I have some concerns but if he's good enough for Gibbs and the boys he's good enough for me.
His age is great and if his talent is where it should be (he's suppose to be worth a 1st round pick) then a 3rd and 4th are well worth it for a seasoned WR thats "tried tested and true"

[skins lady]

Hmm...Mr. Lloyd's # is 85 and that's the percentage that voted yes so far.

[REDMAN]

I think it was a good trade, but wish we could have keep the 3rd round pick.

[akhhorus]

I have a conditional vote in favor of the deal here:
I don't think Lloyd can be the complement to Moss, but if we got Randle El, this is a good deal. It means a ton of 3 wr sets and Lloyd will cause matchup problems as the slot guy. I slightly disaprove if we're going to ask Lloyd to be the Y target to Moss' X. Pricy deal with the draft picks though.

[GolfFreak]

I like the trade, they find someone they like and go get him. I don't like giving up draft picks every year though.

[danny's stogie]

Good points but who thought about Cooley before we drafted him? I don't like giving up picks either but it's the way this team operates and I have accepted it.

That's a great point and I'm starting to warm up to it. Instead of standing pat and thinking about "value"--for instance the value of what it costs to trade up to get Campbell or Cooley--the Skins target players who they want and then they go and get them no matter what the cost. It seems like a good strategy, target players who you really want as opposed to sitting on your hands and being merely satisfied with the scraps that fall to you.

I guess it would be cool if the Skins make another trade like that in this years draft. If the player they really want is available at the end of the first round go get him, don't sit back and take what's left in the 2nd, why waste time on players they don't really want.

[Slobberknocker]

Hmm...Mr. Lloyd's # is 85 and that's the percentage that voted yes so far.

There's another "85" in the league and if Brandon resembles him for us, I'd be quite happy.

"Who's gonna cover 85?" We'll, he'd better bring friends or Moss, Cooley and Co. will light it up. Pick your poison, Gint/Iggles/Girls...

[BurgundyNGold]

I cautiously approve. I don't like giving up a first day pick though.

[danny's stogie]

I cautiously approve. I don't like giving up a first day pick though.

Hey BnG, long time no see.

[silverspring]

i tenatively say yes, depending on the numbers. Wish he would grow a couple inches but this looks to be a very smart move

[Slobberknocker]

I love pictures like these! All that's missing is burgundy and gold...

http://gra.midco.net/techshark/images/Lloyd.jpg

[SkinsFan4Life2003]

i am going to trust Gibbs on this one, i'm not entirely sold on Lloyd but if he's good enough for Gibbs than i have no problems. Hopefully he'll put up better numbers since he'll have a better offensive attack than when he was in San Fran.

[lakeskin]

Yes, good trade. We made a deal with quite possibly the most inept front office in all of football (and that saying alot) so, Im pretty confident the Redskins know what they were doing and the 49ers had no idea what they just let go of in Brandon Lloyd. And hey have an idiot for a coach. I had to throw that out there.

[Santheb]

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/5848/duck0mq2zc.gif

[danny's stogie]

Santheb-- I'm erasing history. Now that Lloyd is a Skin that never happened. Bring it up again and you're banished. It's a long walk to ExtremeSkins from here.

:D

[lakeskin]

:lol1: Thats pretty funny santheb

[BurgundyNGold]

Hey BnG, long time no see.
Yeah, I've been trying to catch up at work so I can be a derelict next season too LOL. I'm on the move actually. using my PDA to post this.

[RicFlairOne]

Lloyd's got skills and will be a good complement to Moss. Can you imagine what kind of stats he will put up on a good team with decent QB's. Caught 5 TD's from Rattay / Smith - that's pretty good.

[santanadasavior]

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/5848/duck0mq2zc.gif

I'll take one of those when he's out there making one handed catches behind his back and through his legs at the same time. He makes some of the most acrobatic catches I have ever seen. He has great hands and that ball was at his head when he turned. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt now that he is one of us.

[chrisbcbu]

I like this trade. A rookie will take a couple of years to develop and now we have a player who is used to the NFL and is also very young as well.

I just want to hear the contract details before i really get excited. But i trust Gibbs..

[santanadasavior]

I have a conditional vote in favor of the deal here:
I don't think Lloyd can be the complement to Moss, but if we got Randle El, this is a good deal. It means a ton of 3 wr sets and Lloyd will cause matchup problems as the slot guy. I slightly disaprove if we're going to ask Lloyd to be the Y target to Moss' X. Pricy deal with the draft picks though.

Also David Patten could tear up any dime back. I really like the matchups all of this is going to create.

[PennSkinsFan]

I would not say good, I would say steal. Track it like you did last year for Moss. This was an Al Saunders move folks, and watch what Sanduers does with Moss and Lloyd!

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

i need someone to convince me that this is a good trade. i dont think we gave up too much (i hope we get something GOOD for ramsey!) but im need someone to prove to me that brandon lloyd is not a another rod gardner. he is a redskin and i will support brandon lloyd 100% now that he is on the team that i love, but i dont know how excited i should be right now. help me out here hR......

[Slobberknocker]

i need someone to convince me that this is a good trade. i dont think we gave up too much (i hope we get something GOOD for ramsey!) but im need someone to prove to me that brandon lloyd is not a another rod gardner. he is a redskin and i will support brandon lloyd 100% now that he is on the team that i love, but i dont know how excited i should be right now. help me out here hR......

Have you seen the Lloyd highlight reel everybody is posting links to? Watch that, and try, try, try and make one comparable with Gardner. The defense rests.

[Rogers_Redskins]

I like the idea of have a decent playmaking WR other than Moss on offense. I hope he gets along in the locker room.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

Have you seen the Lloyd highlight reel everybody is posting links to? Watch that, and try, try, try and make one comparable with Gardner. The defense rests.
he can make all the circus catches but will he make that critical third and 6 catch for a 1st down when we are down 4 with one minute to go?

[LATrueRedskin]

I voted good trade, but I have mixed feelings about trading draft picks. First, it eliminates our ability to create young depth at key positions. We have to find that in free agency now. Second, Coach Gibbs is really, really good at finding steals in the draft (Cooley, Bostic, Grimm, Gary Clark, Jacoby, etc). I like to see what players he can find and mold into true pros, but that's just me being selfish.

It was a good deal for us; I'm excited to see what this kid can do with a real coach ( Nolan :rolleyes: ) and a real pro offense.

[Biggie]

he can make all the circus catches but will he make that critical third and 6 catch for a 1st down when we are down 4 with one minute to go?

I don't see why not. Besides, with him here, it will be much easier for Moss or Cooley to make that catch too.

[Dept_of_Defense]

i need someone to convince me that this is a good trade. i dont think we gave up too much (i hope we get something GOOD for ramsey!) but im need someone to prove to me that brandon lloyd is not a another rod gardner. he is a redskin and i will support brandon lloyd 100% now that he is on the team that i love, but i dont know how excited i should be right now. help me out here hR......
News Channel 4 just convinced me. They just ran a highlight reel of Lloyd and it blew me away. I'm surprised this guy doesn't get more attention around the league. Some of the craziest one handed catches I have ever seen.......in double coverage! I was questionable @ first, but now I am confident that this is another great move by our front office. 1 Lloyd jersey please...

[CapitalDefense]

I am not gonna say I hate this deal, but they could have signed David Givens(very similar player to Lloyd in size, age and production)) for that amount of money and we keep our draft picks. One thing is for sure this FO does not value draft picks like most teams do.

Hopefully Lloyd keeps progressing and turns into a stud, which would give us two. I know that Saunders runs alot of 3 WR sets, but signing Randle El would be an overkill, right now we have Moss, Lloyd, Patten and Thrash at WR. We also have Cooley and Portis, who will catch alot of balls in this offense. Sellers is our short goaline option, and we are gonna get a TE here in the next few days as well. Are they gonna let us play with 2 footballs on offense.....:lol1:

[SpicyMcHaggis]

he can make all the circus catches but will he make that critical third and 6 catch for a 1st down when we are down 4 with one minute to go?
The problem will never present itself..with one minute to go all we need is a qb who won't get worn out from kneeling!! 19-0 baby!!

[flave1969]

Have you seen the Lloyd highlight reel everybody is posting links to? Watch that, and try, try, try and make one comparable with Gardner. The defense rests.


With all due respect Rod Gardner had games where he was unstoppable. For instance the fine games he had against Dallas and San Francisco two years ago. He was called 50/50 for a reason, he was perfectly capable of doing the hard stuff but showed no application whilst doing the simple stuff. Lloyd last year produced 49.5% of his yards in three games, the other 50.5 % was in the remaining 13 games that just isn't great.

We need consistency not highlight reel we have more than enough of that with Santana. If Lloyd drops passes which is a knock on him like Gardner, I will be pretty disappointed.

[whitskins]

I am not gonna say I hate this deal, but they could have signed David Givens(very similar player to Lloyd in size, age and production)) for that amount of money and we keep our draft picks. One thing is for sure this FO does not value draft picks like most teams do.

Hopefully Lloyd keeps progressing and turns into a stud, which would give us two. I know that Saunders runs alot of 3 WR sets, but signing Randle El would be an overkill, right now we have Moss, Lloyd, Patten and Thrash at WR. We also have Cooley and Portis, who will catch alot of balls in this offense. Sellers is our short goaline option, and we are gonna get a TE here in the next few days as well. Are they gonna let us play with 2 footballs on offense.....:lol1:

There is not much comparison between Lloyd and Givens. Lloyd is by far more talented. Givens had 738 yards and 2 TDs on an outstanding offensive machine with a Hall of Fame quarterback in his prime throwing him the ball. Lloyd had 730 yards and 5 TDs with the worst QBs in the entire league throwing to him and no one else even remotely resembling an offensive threat on his team. Lloyd was also a #1 WR while Givens was a #2. Lloyd also averaged three more yards per catch.

Givens appeared to be our third choice in free agency this year and for good reason, he's simply not as talented as Lloyd or as versatile as Randle-el. If Lloyd put up those decent numbers for San Fran with Cody "Rodeo Clown" Pickett and Alex "Girl Hands" Smith, then he'll easily have 1000 yard potential in DC.

[whitskins]

With all due respect Rod Gardner had games where he was unstoppable. For instance the fine games he had against Dallas and San Francisco two years ago. He was called 50/50 for a reason, he was perfectly capable of doing the hard stuff but showed no application whilst doing the simple stuff. Lloyd last year produced 49.5% of his yards in three games, the other 50.5 % was in the remaining 13 games that just isn't great.

We need consistency not highlight reel we have more than enough of that with Santana. If Lloyd drops passes which is a knock on him like Gardner, I will be pretty disappointed.

The first four games of last season he was great. 2 hundred yard games and 3 TDs. Then Alex Smith and Cody Pickett took over. Honestly its not fair to evaluate any WR when you have these two imposters throwing you the ball.

Pickett was a Rodeo Clown to start the season and Smith took like two months to throw his first TD as a pro. With a capable NFL QB I think this guy will definitely be consistent enough for us.

[Smurf85]

Real good move!

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Smith took like two months to throw his first TD as a pro.


Lloyd would have had a chance to put up better numbers by playing CB AGAINST the 49ers every game...Smith ended up with like 1 TD and 11 INTs..that's ridiculous...

[whitskins]

Lloyd would have had a chance to put up better numbers by playing CB AGAINST the 49ers every game...Smith ended up with like 1 TD and 11 INTs..that's ridiculous...

Seriously. It's almost impossible to fully evaluate a guy when he's playing with two QBs who have no business being a starting NFL quarterback. With Rattay he had a great first month, and Rattay is only a mediocre backup. With Brunell/Campbell this guy will be big time.

Worst case scenario (assuming he is healthy) is he only produces about what he did in San Fran, but honestly 700+ yards and 5 TDs would have been a huge addition opposite Santana last year. What did our #2 WRs combine for last season? Around 400 yards and ZERO TDs?? Lloyd is already a huge upgrade.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Seriously. It's almost impossible to fully evaluate a guy when he's playing with two QBs who have no business being a starting NFL quarterback. With Rattay he had a great first month, and Rattay is only a mediocre backup. With Brunell/Campbell this guy will be big time.

Worst case scenario (assuming he is healthy) is he only produces about what he did in San Fran, but honestly 700+ yards and 5 TDs would have been a huge addition opposite Santana last year. What did our #2 WRs combine for last season? Around 400 yards and ZERO TDs?? Lloyd is already a huge upgrade.

Right..and you have to consider that we really didn't give up alot..we gave up a low 3rd round pick and a 4th (hopefully very low) pick next year..in any draft the chances of a 3rd or 4th round pick contributing substantially to the team (more than Lloyd could) are mediocre at best...Maybe 1 out of every 3 3rd round picks and 1 out of every 4 or 5 4th rounders can make that kind of contribution..maybe...
Someone brought up last year's 3rd round in the draft..there were only 6 or 7 players that did anything significant...

[skins lady]

Ugggggg, I want some numbers, any word?

[dogfight6]

It's not the draft picks that is my problem it is the fact the 49'ers let him go so cheap and that the team's players are glad to get rid of him. We don't need a head case in our locker room. Hope I'm proved wrong.

[helimech24]

We got a young decent calibar player for a 3rd this year and a 4th next. I like it.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

It's not the draft picks that is my problem it is the fact the 49'ers let him go so cheap and that the team's players are glad to get rid of him. We don't need a head case in our locker room. Hope I'm proved wrong.

There is no head coach in the NFL who's opinion on player character I trust more the JB's...it's legit to have some doubts but I think we are at least in the best position to have made the right decision...

[whitskins]

It's not the draft picks that is my problem it is the fact the 49'ers let him go so cheap and that the team's players are glad to get rid of him. We don't need a head case in our locker room. Hope I'm proved wrong.

He's hardly a head case. Clowns like Fred Beasley didn't like his braided hair, jewelry collection, and music career.

He and Nolan butted heads a couple times when Lloyd claimed his QB mistimed a throw near the goalline.

Not big stuff at all, he'll be coming to a team with a Hall of Fame coach, amazing assistants, and tons of veteran leadership, he'll be in line.

[skins lady]

He's hardly a head case. Clowns like Fred Beasley didn't like his braided hair, jewelry collection, and music career.

He and Nolan butted heads a couple times when Lloyd claimed his QB mistimed a throw near the goalline.

Not big stuff at all, he'll be coming to a team with a Hall of Fame coach, amazing assistants, and tons of veteran leadership, he'll be in line.
I really think he'll be fine in Washington. Nolan's nothing like Gibbs, Nolan's a really bad coach. It's tough being the best receiver on a no-good offense with a horrible QB throwing to you. I can understand why he loses his temper. The Redskins aren't a bad team any more, when he sees playmakers in the huddle, he'll be fine.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

He's hardly a head case. Clowns like Fred Beasley didn't like his braided hair, jewelry collection, and music career.

He and Nolan butted heads a couple times when Lloyd claimed his QB mistimed a throw near the goalline.

Not big stuff at all, he'll be coming to a team with a Hall of Fame coach, amazing assistants, and tons of veteran leadership, he'll be in line.

And if he's not we can make him run routes over the middle in training camp..Mr.Lloyd, meet Mr.Taylor...Mr.Lloyd, you seem to have misplaced your helmet..with your head in it...

[skins lady]

It doesn't seem like he's that bad of a guy:http://www.providiancares.com/images/T4T_Lloyd.jpg

[ChiefPowhatan17]

Brandon Lloyd has been a guy that I wanted to get since I first looked at who was available. Granted we had to give up 2 picks, but just look at it as losing a third rounder for a proven reciever.

[skins74]

I saw Brandon make some incredible catches last year. I am all for this trade.

[shane88]

This is a great trade, imo. We gave up a 3rd and 4th round pick for a PROVEN playmaker. 99% sure neither one of those picks would've been a starter for this team, let alone an immediate impact player.

[smoak]

I have a conditional vote in favor of the deal here:
I don't think Lloyd can be the complement to Moss, but if we got Randle El, this is a good deal. It means a ton of 3 wr sets and Lloyd will cause matchup problems as the slot guy. I slightly disaprove if we're going to ask Lloyd to be the Y target to Moss' X. Pricy deal with the draft picks though.

I agree to an extent. So are you completely soured on Patten?

I am going to feel ill if the $10MM signing bonus is accurate.

[CarMike]

I like the move. I just hope he can keep his attitude healthy. We don't need no "me" players in DC.

With that said, I trust Gibbs and Saunders know what they are doing.

[PGiddy18]

i need someone to convince me that this is a good trade. i dont think we gave up too much (i hope we get something GOOD for ramsey!) but im need someone to prove to me that brandon lloyd is not a another rod gardner. he is a redskin and i will support brandon lloyd 100% now that he is on the team that i love, but i dont know how excited i should be right now. help me out here hR......

Rach, that is exactly what I was thinking. Its all well and good if he can make the sports center top plays list, but i want a guy that will be able to make those simple catches, get the first downs and let us spread the ball around.

I'm going for a cautious thumbs up. I want to know what the terms to his deal are (Smoak, I too hope that its not that large of a bonus). I think he will be able to take some of the pressure off Moss, but I still am cautious. I'm not a draft guru like most of you people here, but so long as we are able to fill our needs, I don't think the 3rd and the 4th will hurt us.

[hail2skins]

Rach, that is exactly what I was thinking. Its all well and good if he can make the sports center top plays list, but i want a guy that will be able to make those simple catches, get the first downs and let us spread the ball around.

I'm going for a cautious thumbs up. I want to know what the terms to his deal are (Smoak, I too hope that its not that large of a bonus). I think he will be able to take some of the pressure off Moss, but I still am cautious. I'm not a draft guru like most of you people here, but so long as we are able to fill our needs, I don't think the 3rd and the 4th will hurt us.Well, well, well. It's been awhile. :D

[PGiddy18]

Well, well, well. It's been awhile. :D
Blame the Flyers!

[akhhorus]

I agree to an extent. So are you completely soured on Patten?

No, I think he could be dealt for something. But if I had the choice between Randle El/Lloyd or Patten, Ill take the former.

I am going to feel ill if the $10MM signing bonus is accurate.

Eh, maybe me too. If the Base salaries are low, im fine with it.

[CarMike]

Guys, FA forces teams to overpay for players. It's part of the game.

Lloyd should be given a new chance. What if he comes in and plays as well as Moss? People thought we overpaid for Moss last year at this time. Do those people feel the same today? probably not.

[PGiddy18]

Guys, FA forces teams to overpay for players. It's part of the game.

Lloyd should be given a new chance. What if he comes in and plays as well as Moss? People thought we overpaid for Moss last year at this time. Do those people feel the same today? probably not.

You bring up a good point Mike, but I really don't feel that he will come in and be nearly as effective as Moss. I would love to be wrong (In fact I challenge you to prove me wrong Lloyd!). I think this deal has great potential and he can be very successful with our organization, but there are alot of question marks with him. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[CNYSkinFan]

I am voting no...right now.

I know I may be totally wrong. I like LLoyd but when there are plenty of good WRs out there and if we sign Randle El we are giving up 2 draft choices for a 3rd or 4th WR.

[skinfandan]

I say good trade because two picks isn't really that much. Brandon Lloyd can be a playmaker if in the right situation and this sytem would work well for him. Heck yea good trade after all we gave up a #2 when we drafted Jacobs (over Mike Doss) and he has done absolutely nothing!

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I like LLoyd but when there are plenty of good WRs out there and if we sign Randle El we are giving up 2 draft choices for a 3rd or 4th WR.

Which good WRs are there?

[HAWGZHEAD]

I'll vote on this trade next off-season. Not a big fan of Lloyd myself.

[X-Factor13]

I love this trade! ESPECIALLY considering how lloyd was a number one receiver for SF! he'll be the catalyst this offense has been dying for!

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I'll vote on this trade next off-season. Not a big fan of Lloyd myself.

That's not fair!

[InsomniaKiller]

Haven't read the whole thread yet. Just voted and offering my opinion on why I think it's a great trade.

We need a receiver and we're not going to get a better one than Lloyd in the 3rd round. Not only that, but isn't it usually taken as fact that receivers don't usually produce their first year and they don't "break out" until their third season or so?

So now instead of drafting a guy in the 3rd and hoping he works out sometime down the road, we've got a guy who has certainly shown that he's a capable receiver and has already put in those first couple of seasons getting adjusted to the speed of the NFL. And he's very young. I think it's a fantastic trade. We needed help now, and that's what we got.

On another note, I've heard it debated that we gave up too much for Lloyd if we're going to get Randle El. Why? If we get both of them we're going to be running A LOT of 3 receiver sets. Our offense will be much more dynamic and either one of them lined up against a nickle is a fantastic match-up for us.

Our team from last year with another capable receiver or two is a team to be reckoned with. On top of that, we're after a couple other FA's and using the draft for depth. Sounds like the perfect plan for me.

And can anyone honestly say, assuming we somehow managed to get both of them, that one would DEFINITELY be the #2 receiver over the other? Based on what I've seen, I'd probably put Lloyd at #2, but that's something that I don't think anyone will know for sure until they both put on some pads and line up on the field together.

[oldskinfan]

considering what we gave up 3rd / 4th....really not bad for a guy who has played #1 receiver on a cr*ppy team. He has a lot more upside than Patten, though I think Patten will do better 2nd year. I also think Lloyd will complement Patten / Moss and also help clear out the zones for underneath route by Cooley and CP. His numbers may actually improve as a #2 w/ Moss getting so much attention....which means Moss's #'s (probably TD's) may go down....

The final test will be whether or not he works hard blocking downfield...because we are a run-first team. For his small size, I was surprised how hard Moss worked on downfield blocking.

[CNYSkinFan]

Joe Jureviscious, Randle El, David Givens, ...the list goes on. Not to mention if we sign Randle El LLoyd becomes a #3or 4 and what happens to David Patten?

[oldskinfan]

....he [Gardner] ...showed no application whilst doing the simple stuff.

Good point about LLoyd producting half his yds in 3 games last year...Also love it when you teach us Yankees proper English (e.g. usage of "whilst") :-)

[HAWGZHEAD]

Joe Jureviscious, Randle El, David Givens, ...the list goes on. Not to mention if we sign Randle El LLoyd becomes a #3or 4 and what happens to David Patten?I was crushed when I heard the Browns signed Jureviscius. I was hoping to see him here.

[santanadasavior]

considering what we gave up 3rd / 4th....really not bad for a guy who has played #1 receiver on a cr*ppy team. He has a lot more upside than Patten, though I think Patten will do better 2nd year. I also think Lloyd will complement Patten / Moss and also help clear out the zones for underneath route by Cooley and CP. His numbers may actually improve as a #2 w/ Moss getting so much attention....which means Moss's #'s (probably TD's) may go down....

The final test will be whether or not he works hard blocking downfield...because we are a run-first team. For his small size, I was surprised how hard Moss worked on downfield blocking.

I'm not worried about Moss' numbers going down. One because he is skilled enough and he won't have the same attention as last year. Two, it will help us win games.

[redskin_rich]

Joe Jureviscious, Randle El, David Givens, ...the list goes on. Not to mention if we sign Randle El LLoyd becomes a #3or 4 and what happens to David Patten?
I don't get why you think Randle El would start over Lloyd. RE has never been more than a 3rd option until this past year and what did he have, like 30 something receptions?
If the Skins sign RE, he will be the third WR and KR/PR.

[santanadasavior]

I don't get why you think Randle El would start over Lloyd. RE has never been more than a 3rd option until this past year and what did he have, like 30 something receptions?
If the Skins sign RE, he will be the third WR and KR/PR.

Agreed, I really can't fathom Randel El starting over those Lloyd or Moss. The mix of those three and Patten would really be so great though. We could keep fully capable WRs in rotation in the 2 and 3 spot while the defense could not afford to give their DBs that were guarding them a break too.

[RichardBradley]

I like the trade but in no way should we give this guy a 10 million dollar signing bonus

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Joe Jureviscious, Randle El, David Givens, ...the list goes on. Not to mention if we sign Randle El LLoyd becomes a #3or 4 and what happens to David Patten?

Jurevicious wanted to play in his home town and is older..Givens probably will go back to New England, Bruce went back to St.Louis, Moulds is 33, Bryant has the same presumed attitude problems that Lloyd has, Robinson resigned with the Vikings...I'm not sure were so many receivers available this year like everybody thinks
If we get Randle-El I'm not sure what happens to Patten, but I wouldn't worry about the order the WRs are in..we'll probably see many more 3 receiver sets and we'll rotate them..guys I don't know if you remember the receivers we were playing with in Seattle..we can't risk throwing away a season like that again...

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I was crushed when I heard the Browns signed Jureviscius. I was hoping to see him here.

Jurevicius: 31 1/2 years old, 55 catches for 694 yds and 10 tds playing in the best offense in the NFC..has had 500+ yards in 2 years out of 8..23 tds in 8 years..and mostly..HAD BY FAR HIS BEST YEAR IN HIS CONTRACT YEAR, which is never a good sign..

Lloyd: 25 years old in 2 months, 48 catches for 733 yds and 5 tds playing in the worst offense in the NFC..500+ yards 2 years out of 3..13 tds in 3 years

I'm not saying either one is way better than the other, but I don't see why Jurevicious would have been awesome while Lloyd is raising so many doubts

JJ:http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/12484

BL: http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/396021

[HAWGZHEAD]

I don't mind the picks part of the deal, we do that alot and for the talent he has it is fair. The person that he may or may not be worries me but I guess if Gibbs likes the guy so do I. Gibbs is a good judge of character and after being reminded of that as I read through the thread I voted yes. I am still not warm and fuzzy on the guy but Gibbs slightly outranks me in judgement lol.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Gibbs is a good judge of character

Exactly! No way Gibbs would risk the chemistry the team has right now...

[Huston24]

Good trade...giving up a 3rd this year and a 4th next year for a guy that could solve our #2 problem is a good trade...and next year we should have the rest of our picks so the 4th won't hurt

[flave1969]

Good point about LLoyd producting half his yds in 3 games last year...Also love it when you teach us Yankees proper English (e.g. usage of "whilst") :-)

If you heard the way I talk sometimes you wouldn't be saying that.:)

[flave1969]

Jurevicius: 31 1/2 years old, 55 catches for 694 yds and 10 tds playing in the best offense in the NFC..has had 500+ yards in 2 years out of 8..23 tds in 8 years..and mostly..HAD BY FAR HIS BEST YEAR IN HIS CONTRACT YEAR, which is never a good sign..

Lloyd: 25 years old in 2 months, 48 catches for 733 yds and 5 tds playing in the worst offense in the NFC..500+ yards 2 years out of 3..13 tds in 3 years

I'm not saying either one is way better than the other, but I don't see why Jurevicious would have been awesome while Lloyd is raising so many doubts

JJ:http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/12484

BL: http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/396021

I think why people talk about JJ is because of his physical presence. JJ is not someone I wanted but I understand the theory behind getting a big receiver like him.

If you want evidence look at the dynamic that existed in all the partnerships that Art Monk was a part off. Monk's expertise at running the mid length routes across the middle and to the sideline kept the secondary from cheating back into double coverage. That is where Joe Jurevicious was successful this year. The threat from Lloyd seems to be down the field which allows the secondary as a whole to drop into coverage. The value of a possesion guy is that he holds people in the box and causes disruption, that is the point about getting a big physical presence.

As I alluded to earlier it seems Al Saunders likes to use his Tight End as the big disruptive force. It helped that he had Tony Gonzalez, now he has Chris Cooley and maybe this is where we become like KC, and just send our receivers downfield.

[whitskins]

Joe Jureviscious, Randle El, David Givens, ...the list goes on. Not to mention if we sign Randle El LLoyd becomes a #3or 4 and what happens to David Patten?

Lloyd is far more talented than all of those guys. Jurevicious is old and has a history of severe injuries. Yes he's coming off a great year TD wise but he's not nearly the athletic phenom that Lloyd is and would not command the defensive attention that Lloyd will.

Randle-el, well it's not a big argument since we signed him as well (bwahahahahaha) but Lloyd has put up better numbers on a far worse team.

Givens also put up weaker numbers than Lloyd, despite playing in an awesome offense with a Hall of Fame QB. He only had 2 TDs last season and approx. 700 yards. Also not nearly the athlete that Lloyd is.

Yes if we signed JJ or Givens we wouldn't have had to give up draft picks, but I think two mid-rounders is worth it. I think if Tim Rattay had lasted as the Niners QB then Lloyd would have had a very big year because he had a great first month with him, but once they shifted to Cody Pickett and Alex Smith those clowns could hardly even throw a first down...

[LavarEatsBabies]

Two mid-round picks for a very good receiver? We got the better half of this deal

[Meatsnack]

I voted no on the trade based on what little I know at this point (no compensation numbers, etc.).

I don't care about the braids, the wanna-ba-a-rapper persona, or any of that stuff. Everybody is entitled to look and act how they want to if it isn't hurting other people. Let him dress like Uncle Milty if he wants to, if he produces on the field and is a good teammate and member of the community, I love him.

The personality issues? That junk gets checked out first by our front office and if he were a demonstrable knucklehead we wouldn't have taken the trouble to go get him. Maybe Fred B. wishes he had as much hair?

I am not even worried about the picks in the trade. The rule of thumb for trades is a 4th rounder next year is equal to a 5th rounder this year in terms of matrix numbers (same slot one round lower). So, in terms of trade value we gave up a third rounder, which Lloyd was originally, and an effective 5th. Can you guarantee a WR (or any player) who will be productive in his first season with those picks? No. So, we paid a 5th to be sure of the goods. I am very cool with that.

The reason I voted No on the trade is because I am terrified that the guy will be like Lady suggests and just tune out on routine catches and be a fragile, contact-shy player. Only the future will tell and I really, really hope Lloyd puts my fears to rest in camp/pre-season.

[IowaSkinsFan]

I voted No, but right now I personally don't know what to make of it. If it was just Lloyd, that would be understandable, but the news about also signing Randle El makes this very confusing. Where does David Patten fit into all of this? He signed a 5 or 6 year deal last offseason for about $31 million if I remember correctly.

I honestly thought it would be Lloyd or Randle El, but not both.

[redskin_rich]

I voted No, but right now I personally don't know what to make of it. If it was just Lloyd, that would be understandable, but the news about also signing Randle El makes this very confusing. Where does David Patten fit into all of this? He signed a 5 or 6 year deal last offseason for about $31 million if I remember correctly.

I honestly thought it would be Lloyd or Randle El, but not both.
Patten's deal was 5 years, 13 Mil.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Patten's deal was 5 years, 13 Mil.

I have a tendency to transpose numbers. My boss hates it.

[smoak]

No, I think he could be dealt for something. But if I had the choice between Randle El/Lloyd or Patten, Ill take the former.


Eh, maybe me too. If the Base salaries are low, im fine with it.

I can't imagine we'd get much for Patten. A second day draft pick maybe?

Well the deal seems high to me, but we'll see. I just hope everyone's ego is check at the door... In this case it is at the door of the bank.

[forcefield58]

You know i was thinking today.George Allen and Joe Gibbs are doing it the same way by tading our draft picks for good veterans.We may never have another #1 draft pick again.But i am ok with that.:rolleyes:

Nunber 1 draft picks are always trouble anyway. I like the trade...

[vabeach_skinsfan]

I say good trade. Lloyd had more yards than Randle El, so I think Lloyd will be a big part of the passing game. Randle El will be more involved in KR/PR.

[Battle Cat]

I have no problem with the trade I think we did well. When is the
last time we brought in a draft pick after the 2nd round that had a major impact? Rock Cartwright maybe.

[Ibleedburgundy]

I like this trade and I can't wait to see Moss/Lloyd/El in action. It's a huge upgrade over whoever was supposed to be our #2 reciever last year. Seemed like we didn't have a number two, we had a number one and a number 5. Hopefully, this will allow us to put Taylor Jacobs out of his misery.

I'm always impressed with guys that are able to be productive on crap teams. Lloyd is one of those guys, not that his numbers are huge, but they are certainly respectable for a guy with no help and no QB on the worst team in the league. Say what you want about his attitude, any WR in his right mind would have been a little ticked off about that SF situation. They are the worst front office in football these days IMO.

[colkurtz]

Draft picks are a HUGE gamble - most do not work out. First and second rounders have a 33% success rate after a couple years. Lesser rounds have even less success.

WR draft picks are even more unstable. Might as well throw darts at the WR combine list for the level of succesful picks. With Lloyd we get a proven product from a crap offense. His attitude will improve and he'll have the right coaching / mentoring.

[PyroGenic]

a 3rd and a 4th rounder for Lloyd? ummm... yes, good trade for us :)

[AliBabba]

This trade addresses our biggest need with two mid-round picks. As previously stated who draft picks are a risk even in the first and second round. I like what I have already seen from Lloyd and who gladly take this trade.

[bgforever]

I say it was good. I don't think we went in blindly about Llyod needing a #1 to have the trade work. WE HAD to compensate for what SF wanted and they gave us a break on not making it a #1. Yeah, say what you will about the #3 or #4 pick being gone, but at #2, we can now get a quality pick still.

Lloyd knows he will not be expected to be all over the field like he was in SF and that means longevity, more involvement of what he likes to do, and likely having a firm commitment to team goals first. He showed the exepctional attitude to excel in spite of a limited offense, as Archuletta pointed out.

Somewhere in there is a part of the deal not revealed that will let us all know, it was a better deal than we thought.

[MWballer]

Gibbs did his research Lloyd played HS ball with L. Betts!
High Jumped over 7 feet!

[RedskinsATW!]

I think we did pretty well. I mean, everybody knows how great Cleveland's first round picks turned out the last decade. Kellen Winslow, Jr? Uh, haven't seen him on the football field but the last I heard he was trying to ride a wheelie on his motorcycle. So glad to see he single handedly demolished the Redskins as he claimed.

Braylon Edwards? Those couple of TD catches against single coverage by crappy opponents were indeed impressive.

I know guys get hurt but I'd rather take a gamble on a guy I KNOW can play in this league versus a guy I THINK can play in this league. The draft is for the future and "projects." Not immediate need. The Redskins are filling immediate needs.

Plus, how many bone-headed FA acquisitions has Coach Gibbs made so far? Portis? Brunell? Springs? Washington? See a pattern developing? Some haven't turned out great (Walt Harris) but none have been abyssmal (Canidate/Coles/Deion/ad nauseum). Oh ye of little faith.