Jesse Lumsden

[PA Skins Girl]

Louis Riddick talked about Jesse Lumsden on Redskins.com TV.
http://www.redskins.com/

Says he's faster than Jimmy Farris. Says he is an extremely talented running back and to keep our eyes open for him in the preseason. I tell you what. I've been intrigued by this guys since they signed him. I have a feeling they will find a spot on the roster for him. Either on the active roster or the practice squad.

[Slobberknocker]

I forsee a "white man" showdown in the 40 come training camp. Just out of curiosity, is there some reason why Farris wasn't used for kickoff returns? With Randle El preferring to handle punts, receiving and touchdown passes, this seems like an obvious spot on special teams for somebody to make an impact. I love Betts, but he wasn't really a threat. I'd love to add a versatile guy who can cause havoc a la Tim Dwight or Daunte Hall. This spring should tell!

[Chief Seeway]

I'm looking forward to seeing this guy run also. He received some recognition playing in Canada so it will be interesting to see if that transfers to success in the NFL.

[meloveskinslongtime]

yea i saw the videos from what he did in canada ... wow, this guy can be a good RB. i mean really good. the only thing is, if we keep him , we cant have 5 RBs. i would def keep him and develop him some more.

[becky]

Maybe I'm just starved for football, but I have a feeling that this is going to be a really exciting preseason. Thanks for the info PASG.

[redwolf1218]

SKIN Running Back HGT WGT Speed
26 PORTIS Clinton 5-10.5 222 4.48
46 BETTS Ladell 5-10.5 224 4.53
31 CARTWRIGHT Rock 5- 8.2 225 4.56
0 CARTER Kerry 6- 0.0 238 4.52
BROUGHTON Nememiah - 5-11.4 250 4.61
0 LUMSDEN Jesse 6- 2.0 222 4.46
__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Fullback HGT WGT Speed
WHITE Manuel 6- 2.1 235 4.64

i've been intrigued by him too. he's big, tall and fast. according to this site, he's our fastest running back now.

[shally]

absolutely correct... i am ready for things to get started !!!

even if we do not have a big draft, we should have some second day gems and the post draft free agents.. looking for players

[GoDannyBoy]

This guy doesn't go on the practice squad. Three other teams were courting but he wanted to play for the Skins.

Those videos from last CFL season are amazing. He is running crazy.

Competition is a good thing, but somebody good is going to go.

[PA Skins Girl]

yea i saw the videos from what he did in canada ... wow, this guy can be a good RB. i mean really good. the only thing is, if we keep him , we cant have 5 RBs. i would def keep him and develop him some more.
He may beat out Nemo.

[The Jake]

can someone give a link to the CFL videos?

[hogs86]

I forsee a "white man" showdown in the 40 come training camp. Just out of curiosity, is there some reason why Farris wasn't used for kickoff returns? With Randle El preferring to handle punts, receiving and touchdown passes, this seems like an obvious spot on special teams for somebody to make an impact. I love Betts, but he wasn't really a threat. I'd love to add a versatile guy who can cause havoc a la Tim Dwight or Daunte Hall. This spring should tell!


The 6-foot, 211-pound Archuleta ran a 4.39 40, had a 39-inch vertical jump and bench-pressed 225 pounds 31 times.That would be hard to beat.I would put my money on Archuleta :)

[skins111111]

Riddick was quite up on Lunsden, guess we'll have to keep an eye on him. being Canadian you'd think I would know a little bit about him but the NFL takes all my time.............I was really interested in what Riddick had to say about JC....."if he was mentally ready it would be hard to hold him back"
now he's not as diplomatic as Gibbs so I'm thinkin maybe it might be the Cambell show instead of the Brunell show this year.......after hearing him state that twice it seems a lot more possible than it did. I can't wait to see him preform in preseason:)

[PA Skins Girl]

Riddick was quite up on Lunsden, guess we'll have to keep an eye on him. being Canadian you'd think I would know a little bit about him but the NFL takes all my time.............I was really interested in what Riddick had to say about JC....."if he was mentally ready it would be hard to hold him back"
now he's not as diplomatic as Gibbs so I'm thinkin maybe it might be the Cambell show instead of the Brunell show this year.......after hearing him state that twice it seems a lot more possible than it did. I can't wait to see him preform in preseason:)
But is he mentally ready??

[IowaSkinsFan]

A 6'2" RB? He'd be a sitting (running) duck. Speed aside, I doubt me makes it. I'll take the under.

[OCSkinzFan]

He was a rookie w/ Seattle in '05; big news in Canada, eh.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/football/222321_hmoment230.html

[OCSkinzFan]

Here's a funny one:

To express his gratitude to the McMaster Marauders offensive linemen after his record-breaking day, Jesse Lumsden promised to take the big boys out for dinner. What Lumsden didn't tell the five hogs (their average size is 6-foot-3, 285 pounds) was how he was planning to pay for the big night out.

"I'll pay it down the road and get another student loan maybe," Lumsden said after setting three records yesterday, including the CIS single-season rushing mark, in a 32-13 win over the Queen's Golden Gaels in the final regular season game at 48-year-old Les Prince Field yesterday.

"I'm going to work (Lumsden is a bartender at a campus pub) tonight, so I'll ask for extra tips to pay for that dinner and maybe I can buy them something nice like a t-shirt."

http://www.nflcflfutures.com/NFLCFLFuturesOnTheRise04/1018.html

[bgforever]

Here's a funny one:



http://www.nflcflfutures.com/NFLCFLFuturesOnTheRise04/1018.html


:lol1: I REMEMBER a conversation at HR about this guy some time ago and folks kind of put his exp in Canada in a little box and kicked it to the curb. Maybe I'm thinking this is someone else, but isn't this that guy someone referred to as "white". Just going off of that post sometime ago. Never knew what that meant, except it was another white guy cutting on a white guy in a jovial way. I guess the point was few and far between starting at RB.

Nevertheless, I had thought then it was a good pick up and sounds like once again, the Coaching/Scouting staff is on the mark. Saunders embraces speed, attitude and stamina. This guys got it all , according to Riddick and the writeups I've seen so far. I will watch him like a hawk.

Big hands, cradles the ball tight and guarded. Has moves for a big man and a little speed.

[Canuck]

I've seen him play in person. He'll be lucky to make the practice squad at best. The problem isn't his running ability. The problem is that growing up in the canadian system you don't get to see us style blitzes and hence his blitz pick up will be weak.

Also, he's alwasy been a "star" in canadian university football so he's never had to learn to play special teams (ie, coverage and/or return units).

Bottom line, he can run and catch some, but he can't block and most likely there will be better special teams players. His best bet is to make the PS.

I would place more money on K. Carter making the club than this guy.

Just my opinion of course.

[redskin_rich]

He may beat out Nemo.
I wouldn't bet on it.

[PA Skins Girl]

I wouldn't bet on it.
We'll see. Both Nemo and Lumsden will be eligible for the practice squad, so they might both end up there.

Last year, Nemo was active for 4 games, had 1 carry for 3 yards, 1 kickoff return for 5 yards, and 1 special teams tackle. Not sure he that much of an edge.

[redskin_rich]

We'll see. Both Nemo and Lumsden will be eligible for the practice squad, so they might both end up there.

Last year, Nemo was active for 4 games, had 1 carry for 3 yards, 1 kickoff return for 5 yards, and 1 special teams tackle. Not sure he that much of an edge.
I didn't know Nemo actually had a carry last season, lol. Thats pretty much why I don't see Lumsden making the team though, because RB is the deepest, youngest position on the Skins and he doesn't really fit the Skins style of play anyway. At his build, he is not going to break any tackles, he will have to rely on running around LB's or he is going to get hammered.

[vabeach_skinsfan]

Pre-season is going ot be exciting. We get to see Campbell in action, and now this guy Lumsden. Can't wait.

[Redskinfan28]

He was cut in training camp last year by the Seahawks and didn't light it up in the CFL last year. If he didn't make their practice squad with the 'Hawks, he may have trouble making it here. Not to take anything away from the kid - I hope he does well - but noone should expect him to make the roster here.

[Keino]

A 6'2" RB? He'd be a sitting (running) duck. Speed aside, I doubt me makes it. I'll take the under.


There was this guy, his name was Eric Dickerson, he's in the Hall of Fame. Rushed for 2000 yards once.

He is 6'3 220.

Eddie George had a very succesful NFL Career, he too is 6'2. It's not impossible, as long as he runs hard and has good balance.

[shally]

I've seen him play in person. He'll be lucky to make the practice squad at best. The problem isn't his running ability. The problem is that growing up in the canadian system you don't get to see us style blitzes and hence his blitz pick up will be weak.

Also, he's alwasy been a "star" in canadian university football so he's never had to learn to play special teams (ie, coverage and/or return units).

Bottom line, he can run and catch some, but he can't block and most likely there will be better special teams players. His best bet is to make the PS.

I would place more money on K. Carter making the club than this guy.

Just my opinion of course.

a very astute comment. i had read something similar before.

i also read that carter had character issues, but he had great numbers and potential..

as you said, probably practice squadders at best

[shally]

I didn't know Nemo actually had a carry last season, lol. Thats pretty much why I don't see Lumsden making the team though, because RB is the deepest, youngest position on the Skins and he doesn't really fit the Skins style of play anyway. At his build, he is not going to break any tackles, he will have to rely on running around LB's or he is going to get hammered.


don't forget, we also have manny white coming back.. not sure whether he ends up being a true h back, or whether he gets a few carries after all.
he was lost last preseason and needs to show something

[CNYSkinFan]

We'll see. Both Nemo and Lumsden will be eligible for the practice squad, so they might both end up there.

Last year, Nemo was active for 4 games, had 1 carry for 3 yards, 1 kickoff return for 5 yards, and 1 special teams tackle. Not sure he that much of an edge.
I am not sure Nemo is eligible for PS because he was on the roster for all 16 games. Is it on gameday roster or regular roster that counts against the 8 games maximum?

[Keino]

I am not sure Nemo is eligible for PS because he was on the roster for all 16 games. Is it on gameday roster or regular roster that counts against the 8 games maximum?

Im pretty sure it's Active Roster, but then again, I could be very wrong.

[redskinz#1fan]

But is he mentally ready??

I guess we'll see come preseason and regular season time. I hope he is ready mentally, because then we will have a very deep (talent) and good roster of QB's. I am all for competition, because it will only make you better and stronger. And will lead us to having a better team! PERIOD!

[OCSkinzFan]

He was cut in training camp last year by the Seahawks and didn't light it up in the CFL last year. If he didn't make their practice squad with the 'Hawks, he may have trouble making it here. Not to take anything away from the kid - I hope he does well - but noone should expect him to make the roster here.

He had a hip injury in Seattle and was cut.

The Seahawks had nine running backs in camp and Lumsden was set back by a hip injury that kept him out of workouts for two weeks. He was dressed for a pre-season game against Miami, but saw no action and was cut the next day.
http://www.universitysport.ca/e/story_detail.cfm?id=5261

[CNYSkinFan]

Im pretty sure it's Active Roster, but then again, I could be very wrong.

Found this regarding PS eligibiilty on thewarpath.net


Practice Squad Eligibility: To be eligible for the practice squad, a player must not have an accrued season towards free agency. If a player does have an accrued season, he still is eligible for the practice squad if he was not on the active or inactive list for more than nine regular season games.


SOURCE (http://www.thewarpath.net/roster.htm)

Looks like Nemo is not PS eligible since he spent 4 games on an active roster and 12 games on the inactive roster, which is what I thought.

Lumsford however is PS eligible but will one of those spots be opened up to an RB when it seems we have 4 spots on the regular season roster?

[PA Skins Girl]

Found this regarding PS eligibiilty on thewarpath.net



SOURCE (http://www.thewarpath.net/roster.htm)

Looks like Nemo is not PS eligible since he spent 4 games on an active roster and 12 games on the inactive roster, which is what I thought.

Lumsford however is PS eligible but will one of those spots be opened up to an RB when it seems we have 4 spots on the regular season roster?

According to the CBA (unless it changed with the extension) you have to be active for 9 games to get an accrued season. So, I think Nemo is still eligible:


Section 4. Eligibility:

(a) The practice squad shall consist of the following players, provided that they have not served more than one previous season on a Practice Squad: (i) players who do not have an Accrued Season of NFL experience; and (ii) free agent players who were on the Active List for fewer than nine regular season games during their only Accrued Season(s). No player may be a practice squad player for more than two seasons.

http://www.nflpa.org/Media/main.asp?subPage=CBA+Complete#art34

[ChiefPowhatan17]

SKIN Running Back HGT WGT Speed
26 PORTIS Clinton 5-10.5 222 4.48
46 BETTS Ladell 5-10.5 224 4.53
31 CARTWRIGHT Rock 5- 8.2 225 4.56
0 CARTER Kerry 6- 0.0 238 4.52
BROUGHTON Nememiah - 5-11.4 250 4.61
0 LUMSDEN Jesse 6- 2.0 222 4.46
__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Fullback HGT WGT Speed
WHITE Manuel 6- 2.1 235 4.64

i've been intrigued by him too. he's big, tall and fast. according to this site, he's our fastest running back now.

I can't believe that he would be faster than Portis. But, remember when Riggins came here he was the fastest guy on the team.

[CNYSkinFan]

According to the CBA (unless it changed with the extension) you have to be active for 9 games to get an accrued season. So, I think Nemo is still eligible:


http://www.nflpa.org/Media/main.asp?subPage=CBA+Complete#art34

Yeah but Nemo was on the squad for all 16 games so he has an accrued season. The 9 game rule is for FA who join the squad (or PS players) during the regular season. I am almost sure that Nemow is not PS eligible. Robert McCune may be though, since he started the year on the PS but joined the team mid season and does not get credit for a full accrued season.

Under your scenario Jason Campbell would be eligible for the PS.

[PA Skins Girl]

Yeah but Nemo was on the squad for all 16 games so he has an accrued season. The 9 game rule is for FA who join the squad (or PS players) during the regular season. I am almost sure that Nemow is not PS eligible. Robert McCune may be though, since he started the year on the PS but joined the team mid season and does not get credit for a full accrued season.

Under your scenario Jason Campbell would be eligible for the PS.
Okay, I see your point, thanks.

[meloveskinslongtime]

either way ... i dont think he would sit on the practice squad, i'm pretty sure he will replace someone (nemo). If he does sit on the practice squad i'm pretty sure someone will try and pick him up.

Also, i dont get the whole deal about his size. So what if he is 6'2''. The way i saw him play on those highlights was that he had great balance and was willing to run over people. He wasnt a "sitting duck" as some would say. With his speed, his big size will give him the momentum to knock over a few people.

[redskin_rich]

either way ... i dont think he would sit on the practice squad, i'm pretty sure he will replace someone (nemo). If he does sit on the practice squad i'm pretty sure someone will try and pick him up.

Also, i dont get the whole deal about his size. So what if he is 6'2''. The way i saw him play on those highlights was that he had great balance and was willing to run over people. He wasnt a "sitting duck" as some would say. With his speed, his big size will give him the momentum to knock over a few people.
At 6'2", 220 lbs, he doesn't have great size. He is built like a WR, I don't think he will be running over any NFL LB's or Safety's. He is fast and he better be elusive or he will be a target.

[CNYSkinFan]

If Nemo is beat out that doesn't neccessarily mean that the roster spot will go to a RB anyways. Most of the teams in the NFL carry 3 Rbs and 1 or 2 fbs. Our FB spots go to the H-backs (Cooley and Sellers) and Portis, Ladell, and Rock take up the top 3 RB spots. The resigning of Rock is a bad sign for NEMO as Gibbs may elect to keep 5 cbs instead of 4 rbs.

[MONK_in_HOF]

If Nemo is beat out that doesn't neccessarily mean that the roster spot will go to a RB anyways. Most of the teams in the NFL carry 3 Rbs and 1 or 2 fbs. Our FB spots go to the H-backs (Cooley and Sellers) and Portis, Ladell, and Rock take up the top 3 RB spots. The resigning of Rock is a bad sign for NEMO as Gibbs may elect to keep 5 cbs instead of 4 rbs.
I tend to agree. With no ill wishes towards Nemo, I think having only 4 CBs is very risky and wish they would carry 5, especially considering Springs injury history and the fact Rogers had his own injury problems last year. It will be interesting to see what happens with Nemo and Manuel Wright this preseason.

[redskin_rich]

I tend to agree. With no ill wishes towards Nemo, I think having only 4 CBs is very risky and wish they would carry 5, especially considering Springs injury history and the fact Rogers had his own injury problems last year. It will be interesting to see what happens with Nemo and Manuel Wright this preseason.
The Skins will probably carry 5 CB's and only 4 Safety's as opposed to the 4CB/5S ratio used last year. I doubt it will have an affect on the RB situation.

[PA Skins Girl]

either way ... i dont think he would sit on the practice squad, i'm pretty sure he will replace someone (nemo). If he does sit on the practice squad i'm pretty sure someone will try and pick him up.

Also, i dont get the whole deal about his size. So what if he is 6'2''. The way i saw him play on those highlights was that he had great balance and was willing to run over people. He wasnt a "sitting duck" as some would say. With his speed, his big size will give him the momentum to knock over a few people.
For whatever reason, RBs are usually 6'-0" or shorter. I dont really see why 6'-2" is a big deal, but you just dont see many RBs that tall. I really dont buy the balance thing because plenty of receivers that are 6'-2" or taller have good balance. Maybe it has to do with the shorter RBs being less visable behind the line of scrimmage.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Louis Riddick talked about Jesse Lumsden on Redskins.com TV.
http://www.redskins.com/

Says he's faster than Jimmy Farris. Says he is an extremely talented running back and to keep our eyes open for him in the preseason. I tell you what. I've been intrigued by this guys since they signed him. I have a feeling they will find a spot on the roster for him. Either on the active roster or the practice squad.
I agree, and I'm equally intrigued by him. I think he can make the team as an H-Back.

[Dept_of_Defense]

I hope both Nemo and Jesse get plenty of playing time in the preseason. With all this hype about Jesse recently, Nemo doesn't look as intriguing. I think Nemo will still win the spot unless they want another RB. Gibbs loves Nemo.

[HanburgerBum]

I agree, and I'm equally intrigued by him. I think he can make the team as an H-Back.


Someone earlier posted that Lumsden is not a good blocker. If that's true, there is no way he can make it as a H-back.

He sounds like a back with excellent speed that may be able to play 1st and 2nd downs (but not 3rd downs, where the ability to pick up blitzes is a key requirement). Or, if he shows good power, Lumsden may be a short yardage back and take Nemo's spot on the roster.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

I posted this a while ago in a different thread, I'm not sure if it has been posted in this one:

http://www.jesselumsden.net/

Interesting site.

[Lavar703]

I just wanted to know with al saunders running the offense doesnt that mean we will no longer use the H back, i just figured he would move sellers and cooley to te with fauria, i figured are fullback position would be occupied by Rock or White, he would use one of the two the same way he used tony richardson, which would then leave Betts,Carter,nemo and lumsden fighting for the two back up spots, and with betts being a given to make the team it comes down to nemo,carter, and lumsden. With lumsdens speed he could be used as a kick returner

[3Taylor6]

I posted this a while ago in a different thread, I'm not sure if it has been posted in this one:

http://www.jesselumsden.net/

Interesting site.

wow those canadian highlights are really impressive i definately thinks he has a shot after seeing that he has very good speed

[bgforever]

wow those canadian highlights are really impressive i definately thinks he has a shot after seeing that he has very good speed

One thing I noted also. Plus he has big hands, great vision for cutting, even shows he can power into defenders, while finishing the run. KNOWS HOW TO FINISH THE RUN. That is important when you desperately need a first and can plow or even shake a defender off. Whether he compete with the likes of the defensive schemes of Cincinatti, Baltimore, etc in the preseason, remains to be seen. He should very intriguing to watch.

[Keino]

For whatever reason, RBs are usually 6'-0" or shorter. I dont really see why 6'-2" is a big deal, but you just dont see many RBs that tall. I really dont buy the balance thing because plenty of receivers that are 6'-2" or taller have good balance. Maybe it has to do with the shorter RBs being less visable behind the line of scrimmage.

The thinking is taller runners tend to run more upright. Even the players I mentioned ran "high" so to speak. When it comes to contact, especially contact close to the line of scrimmage, it is important for the ball carrier to be lower than the defender. Both George and Dickerson were great at initiating the contact, and George also had the high knee action when he got going. These guys are general exceptions, there are others (Chris Warren, Chris Brown) who are effective, but tend/ed not to be so durable. It's not really a visability issue, though some of the shifty shorter runners (Barry 5'8, 212) were crafty in hiding behind their linemen.

[bgforever]

The thinking is taller runners tend to run more upright. Even the players I mentioned ran "high" so to speak. When it comes to contact, especially contact close to the line of scrimmage, it is important for the ball carrier to be lower than the defender. Both George and Dickerson were great at initiating the contact, and George also had the high knee action when he got going. These guys are general exceptions, there are others (Chris Warren, Chris Brown) who are effective, but tend/ed not to be so durable. It's not really a visability issue, though some of the shifty shorter runners (Barry 5'8, 212) were crafty in hiding behind their linemen.


That is truer nowadays at the RB spot. Which is why Robert Smith was so banged up with crossover tacklers on either side spotting Smith and unloading, just as he was ready to make a break. However, blocking placement that is suitable to the style of the runner is key as well. Dickerson, Jim Brown, John Riggins, and Pete Johnson, had assigned blocking to accommodate their size and abilities. The exceptions for Sanders and Peyton and early on, Faulk, were their ability to exceed these weaker O lines.

[PA Skins Girl]

Looks like he can catch the screen pass. Maybe he can be used as a backup to Sellers (FB?)

[redwolf1218]

George Rogers was another tall, upright runner...

if he can catch, his combination of height and speed could pose some problems for defenses.

[PA Skins Girl]

I just wanted to know with al saunders running the offense doesnt that mean we will no longer use the H back, i just figured he would move sellers and cooley to te with fauria, i figured are fullback position would be occupied by Rock or White, he would use one of the two the same way he used tony richardson, which would then leave Betts,Carter,nemo and lumsden fighting for the two back up spots, and with betts being a given to make the team it comes down to nemo,carter, and lumsden. With lumsdens speed he could be used as a kick returner
You're right.

The Redskins.com roster no longer lists Cooley or anyone else as an H-back. I guess they are dropping that terminology.

Here's how they list them:

TE: Cooley, Fauria, Robert Johnson, Calen Powell
FB: Sellers, Nemo, Manny
RB: Portis, Betts, Rock, Lumsden, K. Carter, J. Combs

They'll probably keep 9 or 10 out of those 3 positions combined.

[CNYSkinFan]

You're right.

The Redskins.com roster no longer lists Cooley or anyone else as an H-back. I guess they are dropping that terminology.

Here's how they list them:

TE: Cooley, Fauria, Robert Johnson, Calen Powell
FB: Sellers, Nemo, Manny
RB: Portis, Betts, Rock, Lumsden, K. Carter, J. Combs

They'll probably keep 9 or 10 out of those 3 positions combined.

Very interesting. This could be for two reasons:

1.) They are scrapping the whole H-back thing all together (doubtful)

2.) They will use less of the H-back position with more 3 WR sets and Cooley will still move back and forth. However in this case Cooley will be listed as A TE so he can get Pro-Bowl votes.

[Dept_of_Defense]

One thing I noted also. Plus he has big hands, great vision for cutting, even shows he can power into defenders, while finishing the run. KNOWS HOW TO FINISH THE RUN. That is important when you desperately need a first and can plow or even shake a defender off. Whether he compete with the likes of the defensive schemes of Cincinatti, Baltimore, etc in the preseason, remains to be seen. He should very intriguing to watch.
Wow, I'm impressed.

[Biggie]

2.) They will use less of the H-back position with more 3 WR sets and Cooley will still move back and forth. However in this case Cooley will be listed as A TE so he can get Pro-Bowl votes.

As long as the Pro Bowl voting lists Cooley as a "fullback", he could catch 80 passes and still not make it. If all it takes is switching the letters on the roster to fix that, I'm all for it.

[Dept_of_Defense]

As long as the Pro Bowl voting lists Cooley as a "fullback", he could catch 80 passes and still not make it. If all it takes is switching the letters on the roster to fix that, I'm all for it.
Yeah, what would it take for him to be listed as a TE? Is there a quota for the # of snaps he takes @ TE? @ FB?

[bgforever]

Lumsden isn't getting a fair shake.

How long does the Offensive Line have to play together before Lumsden's back there? Less than a game!!!!!

Why does it take some College Football's BEST in America to gang tackle him instead of one guy, when he gets a head of steam (which takes about a second, compared to about 3-5 for some current NFL starters at RB). He moves with ease in traffic, and isn't getting those yards as gimme's. They're really trying to tatoo him. I also detected the DB's getting discouraged on tackling him in those clips.

Not saying he's the best since sliced bread, just because I like him, but how about giving a guy his due. I think he's far better than Betts and faster than Farris. Since he was in the EAST WEST game and many only saw him for the first time, don't you think those two big runs were good, since the defense had already had a chance to compete against him by then?

Riddick, JG and Saunders and most of all Portis, Betts will be even more impressed.

This thread is about Lumsden isn't it?

[PA Skins Girl]

I bet they try him out at returning kicks/punts in the preseason. If he can do that, he might have a chance to make the team.

[berry1086]

I've had the pleasure to watch him a number of times while living in Canada myself. He's really is a great player with Great speed and a good head on his shoulders, he plays smart but sometimes seems as if his balance is off due to the speed he's going (will fly by someone and although it looks like he was fast enough to avoid an actual collision it often times still sets him off balance and he falls) he definetly has tons of potential and with the right amount of teaching he could definetly be a quality return man or provide depth for CP.

[IowaSkinsFan]

We'll see. Both Nemo and Lumsden will be eligible for the practice squad, so they might both end up there.

Last year, Nemo was active for 4 games, had 1 carry for 3 yards, 1 kickoff return for 5 yards, and 1 special teams tackle. Not sure he that much of an edge.

Except that he was handpicked by Byner and they used a draft pick on him.

[PA Skins Girl]

I've had the pleasure to watch him a number of times while living in Canada myself. He's really is a great player with Great speed and a good head on his shoulders, he plays smart but sometimes seems as if his balance is off due to the speed he's going (will fly by someone and although it looks like he was fast enough to avoid an actual collision it often times still sets him off balance and he falls) he definetly has tons of potential and with the right amount of teaching he could definetly be a quality return man or provide depth for CP.
Thanks for the insight. :)

[PA Skins Girl]

Except that he was handpicked by Byner and they used a draft pick on him.
You're right. Since Nemo is listed as a FB and Lumsden is listed as a RB, I'm not sure Nemo is his competion anyway. He'll be competing against fellow long shots Kerry Carter and Jonathan Combs for a 4th RB spot. That's if they keep 4 RBs.

[redwolf1218]

everyone seemed pretty high on Manuel White when he got drafted and before he got hurt. He was the top rated fullback in the draft on several lists that i saw, but Sellers is tough at fullback. Nemo is intriguing. Portis and Betts seem to be entrenched at tailback and Rock Cartwright always seems to take a roster spot. i think it will come down to how much Saunders changes the gameplan. He might want more true fullbacks and tightends and less hbacks. i dont know where Lumsden will fit into the plans but he seems like a very interesting prospect.

[redwolf1218]

new article about Lumsden on redskins.com:

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=16581

[CNYSkinFan]

I think Jesse is a practice squad player. He can then try and make the squad when Betts leaves next year.

[redwolf1218]

quote from that article:

Louis Riddick, the Redskins' director of pro personnel, liked what he saw of Lumsden, who ran a 4.43 40 at Redskins Park.

[skinfan43]

Interesting prospect, for sure - reminds me of McCune, amazing physical ability, but MUST learn the NFL, and learn FAST. Well, this is why we've got the highest paid staff of teachers in the universe, right?

(In college terms, we might as well be Harvard U. and U of Miami combined into one;))

[shally]

new article about Lumsden on redskins.com:

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=16581

his only chance will be if he has a james thrash type of preseason...

[redwolf1218]

with Al Saunders coming to help with the offense, it'll be interesting to see how many running backs stay on the roster this year, and if they will use a traditional fullback, and what will happen to the h-back position.

[shally]

with Al Saunders coming to help with the offense, it'll be interesting to see how many running backs stay on the roster this year, and if they will use a traditional fullback, and what will happen to the h-back position.


which is why it would not surprise me one bit if the skins threw everyone a curveball and took a premier tight end... saunders loves the position even more than gibbs

[Redskin-4-life]

With Lumsden size and speed, if he doesn't make as a RB, I say try him on defense and see how he performs as a OLB.

[PyroGenic]

With Lumsden size and speed, if he doesn't make as a RB, I say try him on defense and see how he performs as a OLB.

no way, thats an even bigger learning curve and like it has been mentioned before, he doesn't have physical attributes to take a pounding. And tackling takes its tole on the tackler as well..

[Dept_of_Defense]

no way, thats an even bigger learning curve and like it has been mentioned before, he doesn't have physical attributes to take a pounding. And tackling takes its tole on the tackler as well..
Yeah, if he doesn't make it @ RB, he's probably doomed to play here @ any other position. He's definently talented enough to make somebody's roster. RB is one position where we have no problems.

[redwolf1218]

i wonder if he can block and catch. if so he could get some experience playing fullback like Steven Davis did when we had Terry Allen. that brings me to wondering how many tailbacks/fullbacks/hbacks/tightends will be kept on the roster with Al Saunders' influence.

[Brokenstriker]

cant coach speed like this ... can't find speed like this in a weight room either

but you can coach blocking ... and route running

H-Back potential

Clint Didier-esque TE potential (if he can catch)

[bgforever]

With Lumsden size and speed, if he doesn't make as a RB, I say try him on defense and see how he performs as a OLB.

Prediction: If he doesn't make it at RB, he pushes Patten out Jacobs out of the picture.

Why.

He is an excellent open field runner with vision. He is a bruising type of player against secondary's. He is big enough to shuck jams from LB's and quick enough to elude DB's to get open. He is also big enough to block either.
He does show a likeness like Thrash, in just wanting to get the job done. He is a no nonsense type too. He has big hands. If they're soft, it sends a huge warning to Jacobs and yes he would be a good ST replacement of Jacobs as well. Plays with an attitude.

[shally]

Prediction: If he doesn't make it at RB, he pushes Patten out Jacobs out of the picture.

Why.

He is an excellent open field runner with vision. He is a bruising type of player against secondary's. He is big enough to shuck jams from LB's and quick enough to elude DB's to get open. He is also big enough to block either.
He does show a likeness like Thrash, in just wanting to get the job done. He is a no nonsense type too. He has big hands. If they're soft, it sends a huge warning to Jacobs and yes he would be a good ST replacement of Jacobs as well. Plays with an attitude.


i do not think jacobs will come close to making the squad this year. patten is another story. he will be a solid #4 receiver and suprise people his second year.

lumsden's competion will be manny white, thrash, robt johnson.. he needs to kill on special teams to keep getting looks in preseason. if he has a quiet pre season the best he can hope for is the practice squad..

[CNYSkinFan]

cant coach speed like this ... can't find speed like this in a weight room either

but you can coach blocking ... and route running

H-Back potential

Clint Didier-esque TE potential (if he can catch)

Spurrier said the same thing about Cliff russell.

As I said I would love to see himn as a practice squad guy, espescially if he can return jkicks in case ARE goes down.

[redskin_rich]

cant coach speed like this ... can't find speed like this in a weight room either

but you can coach blocking ... and route running

H-Back potential

Clint Didier-esque TE potential (if he can catch)
From what I've read on Lumsden, he has already bulked up just to get to 210 lbs. I don't know if he can put on another 25-30 lbs and keep his speed. Besides, I'm not even sure the Skins will be utilizing the H-back position much anymore.

[OCSkinzFan]

I think he makes the team.
At the very least, he'll run down on kickoffs and play wedge on returns.
He's just got too much going for him. Of course you can argue that he's just a sandbox bully, but he ran 5x for 41 yards in the E/W shrine game. That's an average of 8.2 yards per carry against some good talented college D.

Can't wait to see him break one off in preseason.

Here's his RS link:

http://www.redskins.com/team/profile.jsp?id=225

[GolfFreak]

Looks good on paper, but there must be a reason he hasn't made it in the NFL yet. I don't see him cracking into the RB rotation, but I'd like him to prove me wrong. Portis, Betts and Rock are all safe. He needs to play his guts out on Special Teams.

[OCSkinzFan]

From what I've read on Lumsden, he has already bulked up just to get to 210 lbs. I don't know if he can put on another 25-30 lbs and keep his speed. Besides, I'm not even sure the Skins will be utilizing the H-back position much anymore.
He is listed at 224.
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/553153

[redwolf1218]

Looks good on paper, but there must be a reason he hasn't made it in the NFL yet. I don't see him cracking into the RB rotation, but I'd like him to prove me wrong. Portis, Betts and Rock are all safe. He needs to play his guts out on Special Teams.
maybe if he played for a college in the U.S. it would have been better for him. he won the equivalent of our Heisman in Canada, he's only been out one year and he's only 23. he had a shot in Seattle but didnt make it, but they are pretty loaded at tailback and fullback. then he played one year in Canada, and now he is getting a shot with the Redskins, but we are also loaded at running back.

[OCSkinzFan]

Looks good on paper, but there must be a reason he hasn't made it in the NFL yet. I don't see him cracking into the RB rotation, but I'd like him to prove me wrong. Portis, Betts and Rock are all safe. He needs to play his guts out on Special Teams.

Reason:

Jesse Lumsden's hip is sprained and he's only expected to miss two weeks at Seattle Seahawks camp, which could be bad news for the CIS star running back but good for the Tiger-Cats. If he can't practise and play in pre-season games, Lumsden is closer to getting cut ...

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Columnists/Busby/2005/08/09/1165354-sun.html

[redskin_rich]

He is listed at 224.
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/553153
Whatever, still to skinny to be a H-back.

I'll take your bet about him making the roster. I'll be in OC on Labor Day weekend, if he is still on the roster then, I'll buy you a drink, if not you buy mine. Deal?

[OCSkinzFan]

Here's what he did in the CFL last year:

Lumsden played in seven games for the Tiger Cats and ran for 307 yards on 60 carries. He also added 153 yards on 11 receptions out of the backfield. Hamilton's general manager Rob Kratz stated, "His performance (last year) bode well for him to see a lot of playing time this year (as Hamilton's feature running back)." His unique blend of speed, and strength landed him on kickoff returns as well, where he registered 259 yards on 11 returns.

The rest of this article is pretty good too:

...At 6'3" and 230 pounds, there may be other options... Lumsden has good hands and may have some potential in the H-back role that Joe Gibbs employs. He's likely too small to play tight end at the NFL level, but he may be able to find a niche as a project player and special teams standout. Also with Al Saunders coming in to co-ordinate the offense, Washington may employ a more traditional fullback in some sets and Lumsden might fit in there too.

http://www.thehogs.net/content/bossHog.php?id=645

[OCSkinzFan]

Whatever, still to skinny to be a H-back.

I'll take your bet about him making the roster. I'll be in OC on Labor Day weekend, if he is still on the roster then, I'll buy you a drink, if not you buy mine. Deal?
DEAL

I think I'll have a Pain in d'Ass from Seacreats!:banger:

[redskin_rich]

DEAL

I think I'll have a Pain in d'Ass from Seacreats!:banger:
You got it, my choice will probably be the same.
I'll send you a reminder when training camp starts and you can tell me who to ask for at 49th St, Bayside.

:beer:

[OCSkinzFan]

:beer: You got it, my choice will probably be the same.
I'll send you a reminder when training camp starts and you can tell me who to ask for at 49th St, Bayside.


Ask for UNCLE BRUCE :beer:

[silverspring]

You know this reminds me, a lot of people including myself thought we would trade betts this offseason cause we might be able to get something for him. Don't know if that is still possible but if it is this guy might help rock fill betts shoes.

[shally]

You know this reminds me, a lot of people including myself thought we would trade betts this offseason cause we might be able to get something for him. Don't know if that is still possible but if it is this guy might help rock fill betts shoes.


i do not think we will trade betts for precisely that reason-- the uncertainty of filling portis' shoes if needed without betts...
but i also do not think they will re sign betts long term after this year for any number of reasons, so there is room for someone to claim the future backup role..

[redwolf1218]

i do not think we will trade betts for precisely that reason-- the uncertainty of filling portis' shoes if needed without betts...
but i also do not think they will re sign betts long term after this year for any number of reasons, so there is room for someone to claim the future backup role..
and for another reason...i dont think he has much value as trade bait. he's not very fast, not very big, doesnt catch a lot of balls out of the backfield, and he lacks the blocking skills for pass protection and blitz pickup. everyone was scratching their heads when we drafted him so high in the first place. he can return kicks, but lots of guys can do that. he can play sparingly to give Portis a rest, but if he plays for any extended length of time, he gets hurt.

plus, i dont think anyone really needs a running back. the market has not been very friendly for free agent running backs lately.

[skins111111]

with Nemo being converted to FB maybe Jesse has a chance

[PA Skins Girl]

Does Lumsden remind you of Ronnie "Sunshine" Bass from "Remember the Titans"?

1336

Lumsden??

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

Does Lumsden remind you of Ronnie "Sunshine" Bass from "Remember the Titans"?


Lumsden??
lol. thats the dude who kissed another teammate in the movie jsut to mess with him. he does sort of look like him...

[redwolf1218]

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=16606

in that article, Nemo talks about Al Saunders implimenting the traditional fullback. so that might have some bearing on all the running backs.

[CNYSkinFan]

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=16606

in that article, Nemo talks about Al Saunders implimenting the traditional fullback. so that might have some bearing on all the running backs.
Yeah I am still trying to wrap my head around this. Is Cooley going to line up at fullback most of the time like last season, and then be moved around. Or is he going to be on the line like last year.

I just don't know. I wish Saunders would do an interview where that is asked and answered to my satisfaction.

[GoDannyBoy]

I just don't know. I wish Saunders would do an interview where that is asked and answered to my satisfaction.

A tip his hand. I think Saunders is going to do all of the above and them some. Isn't this the guy who will go 3 or 4 games and not use the same formation?

[bgforever]

Yep. so you couldn't expect to see what was what. Some coaches thought they would just get game film of 3-4 back, but that's only a small portion of what he really does :) I love this guy's sneeky mind.

[skinfan43]

He could get up to around 230 or so and be a way faster Alstott, perhaps...just like Brandon Jacobs from the Giants....

[redwolf1218]

i'm afraid he'll get lost in the mix of TE's, Hbacks, Fullbacks and tailbacks. at 6'-2 and 220, he doesnt really have the classic size for a fullback. he should probably be a backup at tailback but i'm not sure if there's room on the roster for him. i hope he makes the practice squad. he might even benefit from a season in Europe.

[Digger]

Not saying he's the best since sliced bread, just because I like him, but how about giving a guy his due. I think he's far better than Betts and faster than Farris. Since he was in the EAST WEST game and many only saw him for the first time, don't you think those two big runs were good, since the defense had already had a chance to compete against him by then?


He's far better than Betts? Getting a little carried away there...aren't you?

He looked pretty good in those clips but let's not compare him to a guy who's done it pretty well in the NFL.

[Digger]

Yeah I am still trying to wrap my head around this. Is Cooley going to line up at fullback most of the time like last season, and then be moved around. Or is he going to be on the line like last year.

I just don't know. I wish Saunders would do an interview where that is asked and answered to my satisfaction.

I would have to guess that we'll see Cooley used very much as he was last year. When he was at tight end, or at the H-Back, or in the slot, he was primarily a receiver.

Saunders used the H-back position at K.C. but not as often as Gibbs used it here.

Since Saunders uses the blocking FB, I assume that eliminates the blocking TE (ala Gibbs) in most formations. The Saunders' TE must be more versatile. Robert Royal wouldn't fit.

Both systems use one eligible receiver mainly as a blocker. There are tradeoffs, of course. Your versatile tight end might find it harder to get off the LOS (than the H-back) on a pass pattern but your blocking FB can bring more power to the point of attack on a run.

[shally]

I would have to guess that we'll see Cooley used very much as he was last year. When he was at tight end, or at the H-Back, or in the slot, he was primarily a receiver.

Saunders used the H-back position at K.C. but not as often as Gibbs used it here.

Since Saunders uses the blocking FB, I assume that eliminates the blocking TE (ala Gibbs) in most formations. The Saunders' TE must be more versatile. Robert Royal wouldn't fit.

Both systems use one eligible receiver mainly as a blocker. There are tradeoffs, of course. Your versatile tight end might find it harder to get off the LOS (than the H-back) on a pass pattern but your blocking FB can bring more power to the point of attack on a run.


i think the first thing that saunders might do is look at the game film of the second philly game.. it was the most effective defense against cooley the entire season and it totally frustrated him.. saunders is going to need to figure a way to combat that because every def coordinator is going to go to school on it this year.

[shally]

I would have to guess that we'll see Cooley used very much as he was last year. When he was at tight end, or at the H-Back, or in the slot, he was primarily a receiver.

Saunders used the H-back position at K.C. but not as often as Gibbs used it here.

Since Saunders uses the blocking FB, I assume that eliminates the blocking TE (ala Gibbs) in most formations. The Saunders' TE must be more versatile. Robert Royal wouldn't fit.

Both systems use one eligible receiver mainly as a blocker. There are tradeoffs, of course. Your versatile tight end might find it harder to get off the LOS (than the H-back) on a pass pattern but your blocking FB can bring more power to the point of attack on a run.


i think the first thing that saunders might do is look at the game film of the second philly game.. it was the most effective defense against cooley the entire season and it totally frustrated him.. saunders is going to need to figure a way to combat that because every def coordinator is going to go to school on it this year.

[bgforever]

He's far better than Betts? Getting a little carried away there...aren't you?

He looked pretty good in those clips but let's not compare him to a guy who's done it pretty well in the NFL.


No, because Betts didn't put out at that level Lumsden was on in college (East West game is against some far better talent, than what Betts caped off in college). I was for the Skins taking Betts in his rookie year, as a last ditch effort since OTHER backs were taken. However, I pointed out, he is replaceable by a more versatile and quicker back. Betts, like Rock got a lift from a OLine that was cranking up the blocking. Ask yourself this. Before Gibbs arrived and in earlier part of 2004, were you so high on Betts then?

Not carried away. I swear it, but sometimes a white RB gets little love when he does well, even in a East West game, than a 2-3 a carry on WIDE open turf RB. I saw Betts muff many a carry in spaces where he should have blown, through. WHY do you think they got LUMSDEN in?? for window dressing? With a loaded stable already. You question RIDDICK (Dir. Player Personnel/Scouting) right? I put my money on Riddick, not you and sure he'll he'll have to prove it. Look at the clip all you want, but looking HOW he did what he did when all knew who was getting it and when he made moves? Comes natural to him. Instinctive running can't be coached. Its a gift and got nuts just like Betts. So YEAH, I say he's better and I am sticking with it. Wait and see.

As far as what I am doing, has nothing to do with the player ON THE FIELD.
Clip my a!

[OCSkinzFan]

i think the first thing that saunders might do is look at the game film of the second philly game.. it was the most effective defense against cooley the entire season and it totally frustrated him.. saunders is going to need to figure a way to combat that because every def coordinator is going to go to school on it this year.
I think Cooley will be used in Washington like Tony Gonzalez was used in KC. If you dedicate your D to stopping him (which you can do) something else (another player) will open up.

[OCSkinzFan]

Saunders used the H-back position at K.C. but not as often as Gibbs used it here.
I have never heard that.

Where did you find this information?

Gonzalez was used in a versatile way, but never as an H back.

[Digger]

No, because Betts didn't put out at that level Lumsden was on in college (East West game is against some far better talent, than what Betts caped off in college). I was for the Skins taking Betts in his rookie year, as a last ditch effort since OTHER backs were taken. However, I pointed out, he is replaceable by a more versatile and quicker back. Betts, like Rock got a lift from a OLine that was cranking up the blocking. Ask yourself this. Before Gibbs arrived and in earlier part of 2004, were you so high on Betts then?

Not carried away. I swear it, but sometimes a white RB gets little love when he does well, even in a East West game, than a 2-3 a carry on WIDE open turf RB. I saw Betts muff many a carry in spaces where he should have blown, through. WHY do you think they got LUMSDEN in?? for window dressing? With a loaded stable already. You question RIDDICK (Dir. Player Personnel/Scouting) right? I put my money on Riddick, not you and sure he'll he'll have to prove it. Look at the clip all you want, but looking HOW he did what he did when all knew who was getting it and when he made moves? Comes natural to him. Instinctive running can't be coached. Its a gift and got nuts just like Betts. So YEAH, I say he's better and I am sticking with it. Wait and see.

As far as what I am doing, has nothing to do with the player ON THE FIELD.
Clip my a!

I hope Lumsden turns out to be the next Gale Sayers but you have no basis for saying, at this point in his career, that he's far better than Ladell Betts who has already proven himself to be our best kick returner, our best receiver among the RBs, a good blocker and our second best RB.

I don't think you help your guy by over-hyping him like that.

[OCSkinzFan]

I hope Lumsden turns out to be the next Gale Sayers but you have no basis for saying, at this point in his career, that he's far better than Ladell Betts who has already proven himself to be our best kick returner, our best receiver among the RBs, a good blocker and our second best RB.

I don't think you help your guy by over-hyping him like that.
I think our best kick returner will be wearing 82.

[shally]

I think Cooley will be used in Washington like Tony Gonzalez was used in KC. If you dedicate your D to stopping him (which you can do) something else (another player) will open up.

i think you touched on what is really important.. in the philly game, moss and cooley were the only offensive options... that will not be the case this year. saunders will have many more weapons to work with

[Digger]

I have never heard that.

Where did you find this information?

Gonzalez was used in a versatile way, but never as an H back.

I didn't find it anywhere. I've watched K.C. play and saw it for myself. Several NFL teams use the H-back now and then. With Saunders' penchant for using multiple formations, and his coaching roots, do you doubt that he'd have it in his bag?

I don't know if Gonzalez was used there or not. When you use the H-back, the FB is pulled...or he lines up in the H himself if he's a decent receiver.

[Digger]

i think the first thing that saunders might do is look at the game film of the second philly game.. it was the most effective defense against cooley the entire season and it totally frustrated him.. saunders is going to need to figure a way to combat that because every def coordinator is going to go to school on it this year.

What did they do?

[OCSkinzFan]

I didn't find it anywhere. I've watched K.C. play and saw it for myself. Several NFL teams use the H-back now and then. With Saunders' penchant for using multiple formations, and his coaching roots, do you doubt that he'd have it in his bag?

I don't know if Gonzalez was used there or not. When you use the H-back, the FB is pulled...or he lines up in the H himself if he's a decent receiver.
You are confused.

KC doesn't have an H-back.
They move Gonzalez around to try to create mismatches with LBs but he's a versitile TE not an H.

In fact, since Sounders has come to DC, Cooley has been listed as a TE. WE don't even have an H back now.

[Digger]

You are confused.

KC doesn't have an H-back.
They move Gonzalez around to try to create mismatches with LBs but he's a versitile TE not an H.

Okay, Pal

[Digger]

In fact, since Sounders has come to DC, Cooley has been listed as a TE. WE don't even have an H back now.

You added this line as an "edit" or I missed it on the first reading.

You do realize that the same player might be labelled a tight end or a fullback but that doesn't preclude him from lining up as an H-back when they use that formation, don't you?

That we don't have the H-back on our roster means only that the H-formation won't be featured. No one here has said that it would be.

[shally]

What did they do?

i think they had a safety on him much of the time.. but cooley got absolutely no separation from the man who was covering him and was shown throwing his helmet down on the sidelines.
for certain, they paid a lot of attention to him at all times and it frustrated him greatly.
it was his least effective game all last season

[PA Skins Girl]

Can we all just relax a little bit? A couple plays in an East-West game is not anything to put a guy into the #2 RB role on this team. Lumsden is very intriguing. He may be better than Betts, but we dont know that. Betts was drafted in the second round and has played in the NFL for 4 years. Lumsden didnt make the practice squad of any club last year. I would love to see Lumsden make the team. But let's not get ahead of ourselves.

[OCSkinzFan]

Can we all just relax a little bit? A couple plays in an East-West game is not anything to put a guy into the #2 RB role on this team. Lumsden is very intriguing. He may be better than Betts, but we dont know that. Betts was drafted in the second round and has played in the NFL for 4 years. Lumsden didnt make the practice squad of any club last year. I would love to see Lumsden make the team. But let's not get ahead of ourselves.
You are forgetting that he is arguably the best running back to ever come out the the Canadian college ranks.

He wasn't on a practice squad because after he sprained his hip in preseason, he got cut and went home to get better and played in the CFL with the team that drafted him up there, averaging 5 yds a carry (more money and playing time than a practice squad).

I think the real question is will Lumsden supplant Cartwright, not whether he'll replace Betts.

Although I love Rock, I think Jessee will get his spot.

[Digger]

i think they had a safety on him much of the time.. but cooley got absolutely no separation from the man who was covering him and was shown throwing his helmet down on the sidelines.
for certain, they paid a lot of attention to him at all times and it frustrated him greatly.
it was his least effective game all last season

If he was shut down with man coverage, there's nothing Saunders can do about that. You throw to somebody else.

I don't think there are many teams with safeties who can match up with Cooley or the new breed of TE that has come into the league in recent years. More teams will be looking for a Sean Taylor type specimen who can handle it, but they're rare.

[shally]

Can we all just relax a little bit? A couple plays in an East-West game is not anything to put a guy into the #2 RB role on this team. Lumsden is very intriguing. He may be better than Betts, but we dont know that. Betts was drafted in the second round and has played in the NFL for 4 years. Lumsden didnt make the practice squad of any club last year. I would love to see Lumsden make the team. But let's not get ahead of ourselves.

i agree... betts has already shown he can replace portis and run for a 100 yards against an nfl defense. and return a kickoff for a TD
rock has proved he can run for 100 yards against an nfl defense and play killer special teams..

lumsden needs to have the same kind of camp james thrash had in his first season with the skins-- just keep making plays over and over again and make it impossible for the coaches to cut him. otherwise he looks like a practice squad player

[bgforever]

I hope Lumsden turns out to be the next Gale Sayers but you have no basis for saying, at this point in his career, that he's far better than Ladell Betts who has already proven himself to be our best kick returner, our best receiver among the RBs, a good blocker and our second best RB.

I don't think you help your guy by over-hyping him like that.

I am not overhyping him and No I am not saying, because I say he will do well, he HAS TO be THE NEXT Gale Sayers. Stop trying to downplay my point man. By giving me the OVERANXIOUS tag and OVERHYPING, you are also negating what I have to say as it is. Just do without the adjective of WHAT I AM, in making your point.

[bgforever]

You are forgetting that he is arguably the best running back to ever come out the the Canadian college ranks.

He wasn't on a practice squad because after he sprained his hip in preseason, he got cut and went home to get better and played in the CFL with the team that drafted him up there, averaging 5 yds a carry (more money and playing time than a practice squad).

I think the real question is will Lumsden supplant Cartwright, not whether he'll replace Betts.

Although I love Rock, I think Jessee will get his spot.


Thank YOU!

[OCSkinzFan]

You added this line as an "edit" or I missed it on the first reading.

You do realize that the same player might be labelled a tight end or a fullback but that doesn't preclude him from lining up as an H-back when they use that formation, don't you?

That we don't have the H-back on our roster means only that the H-formation won't be featured. No one here has said that it would be.

The H formation?

An H-back often lines up as a TE then goes in motion and is used as a blocker at the line of scrimmage, where he’s in motion and turning upfield at the time the block needs to be thrown. Or, the H-back can be used more like a flanker. By putting the H-back in motion, the offense creates confusion for the defense: who’s going to guard him; when he blocks, whom is he going to go after; etc. The H-back is generally more of an athletic player than the tight end.

Saunders used to split Gonzalez out wide, at flanker, and as tailback in motion in a screen or outlet. That's not an H-back, and it's not lining up in an "H formation." He will probably use Cooley the same way. Cooley was never very good at the motion crack-back at the LOS part of the H-back position any way. A FB will be used instead.

The fact that Saunders removed the "H-back" terminology and added FB I'm sure has something to do with his offensive philosophy. Wouldn't you agree?

[OCSkinzFan]

lumsden needs to have the same kind of camp james thrash had in his first season with the skins-- just keep making plays over and over again and make it impossible for the coaches to cut him. otherwise he looks like a practice squad player

I think Thrash was on the P Squad his first year.

[redskin_rich]

You are forgetting that he is arguably the best running back to ever come out the the Canadian college ranks.

He wasn't on a practice squad because after he sprained his hip in preseason, he got cut and went home to get better and played in the CFL with the team that drafted him up there, averaging 5 yds a carry (more money and playing time than a practice squad).

I think the real question is will Lumsden supplant Cartwright, not whether he'll replace Betts.

Although I love Rock, I think Jessee will get his spot.
LOL, I think it's a stretch that Lumsden even makes our practice squad and you think he is going to replace someone from our active roster.
Man, that drink is going to be good! ;)
Remember, no stipulations for injury or whatever. If Jesse is on the roster on Sunday of Labor Day weekend, you win, if not I win.

[Biggie]

Rock Cartwright makes this team on special teams play alone. He's the reason, along with Thrash and a couple of kick returns, that Danny Smith still has his job.

[Digger]

OCSkinzFan

The H formation?

Okay, a formation that utilizes the H-back.

An H-back often lines up as a TE then goes in motion and is used as a blocker at the line of scrimmage, where he’s in motion and turning upfield at the time the block needs to be thrown.

If he's lined up on the line of scrimmage as a TE, the rules do not allow him to go in motion. An H-back lines up in the backfield, deeper than a wingback, but not as deep as a FB.

Or, the H-back can be used more like a flanker.

If he lines up as a flanker, then he's a flanker in that formation, not an H-back.

The fact that Saunders removed the "H-back" terminology and added FB I'm sure has something to do with his offensive philosophy. Wouldn't you agree?

As previously stated, it means that the H-back is not a featured position in his scheme. It doesn't mean that he doesn't use the H-back concept at all. Given the variety of formations he uses, it would be most surprising if he didn't pull it out now and then.

[OCSkinzFan]

LOL, I think it's a stretch that Lumsden even makes our practice squad and you think he is going to replace someone from our active roster.
Man, that drink is going to be good! ;)
Remember, no stipulations for injury or whatever. If Jesse is on the roster on Sunday of Labor Day weekend, you win, if not I win.
I am very glad that you think buying me a drink will be good!
:stout:

Wait, Jessee only has to make the practice squad?
Winning this is gonna be like findin' sand on the beach.

[PA Skins Girl]

You are forgetting that he is arguably the best running back to ever come out the the Canadian college ranks.

He wasn't on a practice squad because after he sprained his hip in preseason, he got cut and went home to get better and played in the CFL with the team that drafted him up there, averaging 5 yds a carry (more money and playing time than a practice squad).

I think the real question is will Lumsden supplant Cartwright, not whether he'll replace Betts.

Although I love Rock, I think Jessee will get his spot.
Actually, I'm not forgetting anything. I'm the one who started this thread and I'm pulling for Lumsden to make the team. I've pulled as many articles and video highlights as I could find on the guy and I like what I see. But I have not seen him play in the NFL, which is a big big difference between the opponents at McMaster, the East-West game, or the Hamilton Ti-Cats.

[OCSkinzFan]

If he's lined up on the line of scrimmage as a TE, the rules do not allow him to go in motion. An H-back lines up in the backfield, deeper than a wingback, but not as deep as a FB.So if your not on the LOS, your not a TE? Were you alive when Gibbs coached the team the first time? Donny Warren and Clint Diddier went in motion all the time. So did Cooley this year, lined up at TE.
Wingback? Is an H back deeper than the flying wedge?
You are sorely confused.


If he lines up as a flanker, then he's a flanker in that formation, not an H-back.So Tony Gonzalez is a flanker. Thanks for the info. I guess when a WR crosses behind the RB he a flea flicker back...

As previously stated, it means that the H-back is not a featured position in his scheme. It doesn't mean that he doesn't use the H-back concept at all. Given the variety of formations he uses, it would be most surprising if he didn't pull it out now and then.
He will use multiple motions and formations. But I don't think you understand the role of an H, especially during running plays.

[bgforever]

Actually, I'm not forgetting anything. I'm the one who started this thread and I'm pulling for Lumsden to make the team. I've pulled as many articles and video highlights as I could find on the guy and I like what I see. But I have not seen him play in the NFL, which is a big big difference between the opponents at McMaster, the East-West game, or the Hamilton Ti-Cats.

which is why I have finally shut up. I know I over-reacted on my responses, can understand yours and others points, but I had as much to go on as the RB we have on the roster, just like this guy. I will wait and see, and yes finally shut up. I think the best way now is time. I think that Seattle showing interest initially but having a crowd w/SA as well, made him expendable.

I am a goat if he's used for preseason space until the regular season. I can live with that, as I have about a 45-50% success rate. So my busts got my support big time :) Happens. Live with it and move on.

[redskin_rich]

I am very glad that you think buying me a drink will be good!
:stout:

Wait, Jessee only has to make the practice squad?
Winning this is gonna be like findin' sand on the beach.
The practice squad won't be announced until after the date I set for this bet so that is not a factor. Once again, he has to one of the final 60 or whatever the number is on Sunday of Labor Day weekend.

[Digger]

So if your not on the LOS, your not a TE? Were you alive when Gibbs coached the team the first time? Donny Warren and Clint Diddier went in motion all the time. So did Cooley this year, lined up at TE.
Wingback? Is an H back deeper than the flying wedge?
You are sorely confused.

So Tony Gonzalez is a flanker. Thanks for the info. I guess when a WR crosses behind the RB he a flea flicker back...

He will use multiple motions and formations. But I don't think you understand the role of an H, especially during running plays.

Tony Gonzalez is listed as a tight end on the roster because that's the position he usually plays. If, on a particular play, he lined up in the backfield, taking the snap from center, he'd be the quarterback not the tight end on that play. If he were to line up as a flanker on the next play, then he'd be the flanker not the tight end on that play.

If a safety shifts to playing cornerback for a series, he's not playing safety on that series.

By the way, Donnie Warren never went in motion in his life. He served the same function as Robert Royal, a blocking TE, but he had better hands.

[OCSkinzFan]

Tony Gonzalez is listed as a tight end on the roster because that's the position he usually plays. If, on a particular play, he lined up in the backfield, taking the snap from center, he'd be the quarterback not the tight end on that play. If he were to line up as a flanker on the next play, then he'd be the flanker not the tight end on that play.

If a safety shifts to playing cornerback for a series, he's not playing safety on that series.


So your saying every team that lines a TE off the LOS is actually using an H?
That's just silly. And by your definition, if a QB lines up in the shotgun, he's a running back until he touches the ball. Don't confuse rules and eligibility with position. A player is what he is. When Clint went in motion behind Jacoby he was still a TE. And if If Shawn Taylor covers a WR in man coverage, he is a safety in man coverage. But I guess this is just semantics. So call Gonzales a flanker if you want to.

By the way, Donnie Warren never went in motion in his life.Nope. But I guess it's on me to prove it though because you can't prove that he didn't. Oh well, think what you want.

[OCSkinzFan]

By the way, Donnie Warren never went in motion in his life. He served the same function as Robert Royal, a blocking TE, but he had better hands.
Ummm.... Guess you're wrong.

With Riggins as the lone back, Warren lined up on the line of scrimmage or in the backfield as a H-back and often went in motion. Rookie Clint Didier, more of a pass-catching tight end, set up on the other side of the line.

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=1421

[Digger]

[QUOTE=OCSkinzFan]Ummm.... Guess you're wrong.

Ummm, maybe so. I don't recall Warren at the H-back at all.

Didier, Terrry Orr, Doc Walker...I recall them at the H-back but not Warren.

You didn't mention it, but I hope you noticed in that article that he had to move into the backfield to the H-back in order to go into motion. You don't do it from the TE position.

[OCSkinzFan]

Ummm.... Guess you're wrong.
Ummm, maybe so. I don't recall Warren at the H-back at all. MAYBE???? Like I said, whatever you want to believe, even if the official website says otherwise...

Didier, Terrry Orr, Doc Walker...I recall them at the H-back but not Warren.

You didn't mention it, but I hope you noticed in that article that he had to move into the backfield to the H-back in order to go into motion. You don't do it from the TE position.

Yes, he would take one step back off the line of schrimage to go in motion, otherwise it's illeagal motion. They actually called it "a TE in motion," my guess is because he was a TE.

But what ever you feel you need to cling to.

[murtceps]

bgforever
you fold too quickly
your initial set of points is valid
you said lumsden was better than betts - many, many will agree with you for the reasons you stated (more will climb on during preseason) - his instincts are at least as good as betts, and he would destroy betts in a 40 (two tenths quicker)- he is younger, bigger, much stronger, and probably has better hands - he is also cheaper, not that that matters to snyder

big deal that he hasn't lined up in the nfl - sometimes this is a hugely imp factor, but not here imo - lumsden was injured as an ufa in seattle, and couldnt play preseason - that gets you cut instantly once recovered - it is unfair to state that lumsden was not good enough for even a pr spot - guys who are obviously subpar do not do what lumsden did in his only 6 rookie games in the cfl, (this is what sells me on him, above all else - those clips on www.jesselumsden.net show serious dimension) and are not offered multiple nfl contracts thereafter

skins fans, of which i have been one for 20 years, tend to be blind to weaknesses in some wash players, esp rbs, and esp this past offseason - have watched betts for a while now - he is 'ok' at best, and is not durable - my guess is that wash trades him bf the first reg season game

there is a compelling body of non nfl evidence that suggests that lumsden is VERY special

stay strong bgforever - you have some drinks coming your way

[OCSkinzFan]

bgforever
you fold too quickly
your initial set of points is valid
you said lumsden was better than betts - many, many will agree with you for the reasons you stated (more will climb on during preseason) - his instincts are at least as good as betts, and he would destroy betts in a 40 (two tenths quicker)- he is younger, bigger, much stronger, and probably has better hands - he is also cheaper, not that that matters to snyder

big deal that he hasn't lined up in the nfl - sometimes this is a hugely imp factor, but not here imo - lumsden was injured as an ufa in seattle, and couldnt play preseason - that gets you cut instantly once recovered - it is unfair to state that lumsden was not good enough for even a pr spot - guys who are obviously subpar do not do what lumsden did in his only 6 rookie games in the cfl, (this is what sells me on him, above all else) and are not offered multiple nfl contracts thereafter

skins fans, of which i have been one for 20 years, tend to be blind to weaknesses in some wash players, esp rbs, and esp this past offseason - have watched betts for a while now - he is 'ok' at best, and is not durable - my guess is that wash trades him bf the first reg season game

there is a compelling body of non nfl evidence that suggests that lumsden is VERY special

stay strong bgforever - you have some drinks coming your way
The drink bet is between RedskinRich and me.

But I totally agree with you except I'm not too sure that Rock might get the ax. It may come down to contract stuff. We'll just have to wait and see.

I'm going to make a drink right now!
Here's to YOU and BGForever and the SKINS!

I'll send Rich the bill.:beer:

HTTRS!

[redskin_rich]

The drink bet is between RedskinRich and me.

But I totally agree with you except I'm not too sure that Rock might get the ax. It may come down to contract stuff. We'll just have to wait and see.

I'm going to make a drink right now!
Here's to YOU and BGForever and the SKINS!

I'll send Rich the bill.:beer:

HTTRS!
Oh no, the payoff has to be in person, so you make sure you are working or at least at Seacrets over Labor Day weekend.

[Digger]

Yes, he would take one step back off the line of schrimage to go in motion, otherwise it's illeagal motion. They actually called it "a TE in motion," my guess is because he was a TE.

But what ever you feel you need to cling to.

The rules require seven men on the LOS. The two guys on each end are aptly called "ends." If they are positioned right next to the tackles, they are called tight ends.

If a TE drops back into the backfield on a pre-snap shift, he is no longer an end, tight or otherwise. He Is a "back" (as in backfield) of some kind.

Now, it's possible to have five players who are identified as TEs on the team's roster in the game at the same time but only two of them can play the TE position (on the LOS next to the tackles).

What I'm "clinging to" is Football 101.

[shally]

bgforever
you fold too quickly
your initial set of points is valid
you said lumsden was better than betts - many, many will agree with you for the reasons you stated (more will climb on during preseason) - his instincts are at least as good as betts, and he would destroy betts in a 40 (two tenths quicker)- he is younger, bigger, much stronger, and probably has better hands - he is also cheaper, not that that matters to snyder

big deal that he hasn't lined up in the nfl - sometimes this is a hugely imp factor, but not here imo - lumsden was injured as an ufa in seattle, and couldnt play preseason - that gets you cut instantly once recovered - it is unfair to state that lumsden was not good enough for even a pr spot - guys who are obviously subpar do not do what lumsden did in his only 6 rookie games in the cfl, (this is what sells me on him, above all else - those clips on www.jesselumsden.net show serious dimension) and are not offered multiple nfl contracts thereafter

skins fans, of which i have been one for 20 years, tend to be blind to weaknesses in some wash players, esp rbs, and esp this past offseason - have watched betts for a while now - he is 'ok' at best, and is not durable - my guess is that wash trades him bf the first reg season game

there is a compelling body of non nfl evidence that suggests that lumsden is VERY special

stay strong bgforever - you have some drinks coming your way

if that were the case (very special) i doubt the seahawks would have cut him. they would have found some way to hold onto him.. i am not saying that he could not turn out to be special, only that there is little basis to predict that kind of performance right now.

betts and rock have a proven nfl track record. they are known quantities. lumsden is going to have to prove he is better to earn a spot onthe roster. he will likely get his chance if he stays healthy in camp and in preseason

[OCSkinzFan]

The rules require seven men on the LOS. The two guys on each end are aptly called "ends." If they are positioned right next to the tackles, they are called tight ends.Nope, usually at least one of them is called a wide receiver.

And you can line up the guy hiking the ball on one end and guess what. They'd still call him a center, cause that's who hikes the ball.

On a fake punt, is the punter the QB if he throws the ball?
No, it's a fake punt and he's the punter who threw the ball.


If a TE drops back into the backfield on a pre-snap shift, he is no longer an end, tight or otherwise. He Is a "back" (as in backfield) of some kind.Yes regarding his eligibility for catching a pass or going in motion he is now different, but he has only moved to a new spot on the field; he is still what he is. He is now a TE lined up in the backfield, or in the slot, even though he's not on the end of anything.


Now, it's possible to have five players who are identified as TEs on the team's roster in the game at the same time but only two of them can play the TE position (on the LOS next to the tackles).

What I'm "clinging to" is Football 101.
Semantics

[bgforever]

bgforever
you fold too quickly
your initial set of points is valid
you said lumsden was better than betts - many, many will agree with you for the reasons you stated (more will climb on during preseason) - his instincts are at least as good as betts, and he would destroy betts in a 40 (two tenths quicker)- he is younger, bigger, much stronger, and probably has better hands - he is also cheaper, not that that matters to snyder

big deal that he hasn't lined up in the nfl - sometimes this is a hugely imp factor, but not here imo - lumsden was injured as an ufa in seattle, and couldnt play preseason - that gets you cut instantly once recovered - it is unfair to state that lumsden was not good enough for even a pr spot - guys who are obviously subpar do not do what lumsden did in his only 6 rookie games in the cfl, (this is what sells me on him, above all else - those clips on www.jesselumsden.net show serious dimension) and are not offered multiple nfl contracts thereafter

skins fans, of which i have been one for 20 years, tend to be blind to weaknesses in some wash players, esp rbs, and esp this past offseason - have watched betts for a while now - he is 'ok' at best, and is not durable - my guess is that wash trades him bf the first reg season game

there is a compelling body of non nfl evidence that suggests that lumsden is VERY special

stay strong bgforever - you have some drinks coming your way


WELCOME TO HR murtceps :beer:
Thanks for the vote! I digressed on my outrageous statement about color, as my over reaction. Yeah I am enthusiastic about this guy. My gut tells me he's the real deal, just needs some polish.

[shally]

WELCOME TO HR murtceps :beer:
Thanks for the vote! I digressed on my outrageous statement about color, as my over reaction. Yeah I am enthusiastic about this guy. My gut tells me he's the real deal, just needs some polish.

i hope you are right...

i feel the same way about him as i do about robert johnson (TE).. when a player is on to his second or third team (or in johnson's case his 4th or 5th) there is usually some flaw that keeps him from sticking. some players eventually can overcome it.. most can't and that why they are perpetually being cut. we wish them well because the team will be better if they justify a position, but i still remain doubtfull

[bgforever]

i hope you are right...

i feel the same way about him as i do about robert johnson (TE).. when a player is on to his second or third team (or in johnson's case his 4th or 5th) there is usually some flaw that keeps him from sticking. some players eventually can overcome it.. most can't and that why they are perpetually being cut. we wish them well because the team will be better if they justify a position, but i still remain doubtfull

Example of how I feel about him:

Alvin Garrett

[murtceps]

shally
hear ya - but there is a disconnect to the theory - the seahawks didn't see him at all in camp/preseason, cause he was hurt early (not just an ankle sprain) and thusly didn't show anything of substance (he is a proverbial 'gamer' - he needs games to show his elevation - no ufa makes a team, ever, on practise only)

also, i suspect the seahawks (and pretty much all nfl teams - and even many of lumsden's biased fans) would have never thought that lumsden would be able to produce at the cfl level (tons of div 1 and ex nfl players there) in the way he did as a rookie - i dare say no 22/23 yr old cfl rookie has ever started let alone dominated (see the clips and commentary) as seen - it is truly remarkable what he did, and more importantly 'how' he did it (terrible team, predictable offense - many articles speak to this)

I would say that seattle would not be unhappy to have lumsden in camp, healthy, this year (sa aside, they have issues at rb) - even their view of lumsden, whatever it was, would be heightened, and arguably by much, after viewing the post-cut cfl tape

the irony here is that lumsden likely would have suffered had he made an nfl pr roster and sat all last year - he needed to 'play games', (his lack of div 1 experience required it) and that could only happen in the cfl - he is tentative and not fully explosive in the earlier cfl games, getting a feel for starting as a pro, and still doing v well - by the later games, he is a confident, creative stud absent any hesitiation whatsoever - his growth is rapid and should give him a valuable foundation coming into camp this year versus last - clearly he will not have any doubts about his worth as he lines up in camp this year

bottom line is that IN GAMES he utterly devours yards in seams that he has a nice nose to find (and IS elusive - V imp) - assuming his 4.43 speed is legit (we now know it is not legend but fact) i have no doubt he can succeed, even if he plays australian rules football in the next two months

i will go further - given his unusual measurements, i bet saunders will find a way to slide him in in unusual situations given the matchup problems he can cause all over the place w his obvious versatility -he is an ideal complimentary player to portis, imho

stay thirsty bgforever

[redwolf1218]

i hope you are right...

i feel the same way about him as i do about robert johnson (TE).. when a player is on to his second or third team (or in johnson's case his 4th or 5th) there is usually some flaw that keeps him from sticking. some players eventually can overcome it.. most can't and that why they are perpetually being cut. we wish them well because the team will be better if they justify a position, but i still remain doubtfull
but Gibbs loves a big, blocking TE, where many teams will go after the flashier pass catcher. he's been trying to find one all along since returning to coaching. he thought Walter Rasby was the answer but he wasn't. i'm not sure what the Brian Kozlowsky experiment is all about. he wanted that Kleinsasser(?) guy and he probably would have been the answer that Gibbs was looking for. i'm still not sure if Fauria is the answer either, or if Saunders shares Gibbs passion for the blocking TE, but since they picked him after Saunders came here, then they must agreed there was a need there for a guy who is a blocker and not necessarily a flashy pass catcher. i just dont know if Fauria is big enough at 6'-4 and 245, but he is experienced and there's a lot to be said for that as far as leverage and blocking techniques.

but Lumsden hasnt had much of a chance since Seattle was loaded at tailback and fullback. i just hope he makes the practice squad at least.

[OCSkinzFan]

Oh no, the payoff has to be in person, so you make sure you are working or at least at Seacrets over Labor Day weekend.
Ill be there. And I'll try not to be a closer so we can throw back a few!

[bgforever]

The drink bet is between RedskinRich and me.

But I totally agree with you except I'm not too sure that Rock might get the ax. It may come down to contract stuff. We'll just have to wait and see.

I'm going to make a drink right now!
Here's to YOU and BGForever and the SKINS!

I'll send Rich the bill.:beer:

HTTRS!

Hey, better make a drink for PA Skins Girl , she's the one that brought this more to the fore! :)

[OCSkinzFan]

Hey, better make a drink for PA Skins Girl , she's the one that brought this more to the fore! :)
I'll line 'em up! Seacreats is a Zoo that weekend.

[X-Factor13]

so... is this the first case of us obsessing over every minor move?

[PA Skins Girl]

Hey, better make a drink for PA Skins Girl , she's the one that brought this more to the fore! :)
I actually will be in Ocean City over Labor Day weekend. And it's my birthday that weekend!

[OCSkinzFan]

I actually will be in Ocean City over Labor Day weekend. And it's my birthday that weekend!
Oh, well I'm definitely buying you one then!
:bday:

Only if you're over 21 though, the girl in your avatar looks pretty young.

[bgforever]

I actually will be in Ocean City over Labor Day weekend. And it's my birthday that weekend!

yeah, I won't be around anywhere in DC/MD/VA area anyway, but it was the thought - PA PARTY GIRL! HBTY!~

[CowboyKilla]

Wow over 150 posts for this guy. i have no clue if he'll make it but good look to him.