Official starting OLB thread.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Since Keith Adams is now off the radar as a possible replacement for Lavar Arrington at WLB (Signed with Carolina), I thought a new thread to discuss the possibilities of a replacement was warranted.

You can still read the Keith Adams thread in the archives here: http://www.hailredskins.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=33873

Have at it hR.

[joethefan]

Dunno what can be done.....I don't think that position is one that can be be hidden who ever it is..they'll HAVE to know what they're doing...Holdman didn't do it for me last year.....If Clemons can raise his game to be an everydown LB I'm for it.

[Patrick]

Dunno what can be done.....I don't think that position is one that can be be hidden who ever it is..they'll HAVE to know what they're doing...Holdman didn't do it for me last year.....If Clemons can raise his game to be an everydown LB I'm for it.

If Holdman can improve on last years effort - he'll be just fine. And I think the same about Clemons ........... On the flip side - won't be surprise to see our second round draft pick going for the best LB on the board (at that time).

[redskin_rich]

If Holdman can improve on last years effort - he'll be just fine. And I think the same about Clemons ........... On the flip side - won't be surprise to see our second round draft pick going for the best LB on the board (at that time).
I'd rather not see Holdman take up a roster space, even if he came back at the minimum vet salary. Clemons definitely has the inside track as the starting Will and the only competition I see for him is if the Skins draft a LB with their 2nd rd pick.

[joethefan]

If Holdman can improve on last years effort - he'll be just fine. And I think the same about Clemons ........... On the flip side - won't be surprise to see our second round draft pick going for the best LB on the board (at that time).

well patrick, I guess I'll miss you ever so complete commentary on the draft since there's no draft party this year....

[GolfFreak]

I'm not to excited about having Holdman back on this team. I really hope we address this position with our 1st pick and let that player battle it out with Clemons.

I suppose it helps a lot to have Washington and Lemar with whoever gets plugged into the other spot.

[AliBabba]

I'm not to excited about having Holdman back on this team. I really hope we address this position with our 1st pick and let that player battle it out with Clemons.

I suppose it helps a lot to have Washington and Lemar with whoever gets plugged into the other spot.

Yes, and unless D'Qwell Jackson is the best LB left at #53, can we please end talk of moving Lemar back outside? He had stats very comparable to APs and he led the team in picks, plus it was his first year. Let the man learn ONE position and pretty soon he'll be a star.

[bgforever]

Yes, and unless D'Qwell Jackson is the best LB left at #53, can we please end talk of moving Lemar back outside? He had stats very comparable to APs and he led the team in picks, plus it was his first year. Let the man learn ONE position and pretty soon he'll be a star.

I agree and this time Marshall's a keeper :)

[Meatsnack]

Well, what seems to be clear is that whatever the FO's plan for replacing #56 was, it didn't include a fullcourt press assault to get a certain FA. Which implies:

a) The FO plans to draft a guy

-- or --

b) they are confident that someone on the roster can step up.

If the pick at #53 comes up and they take the BPA and it isn't a LB, we'll know that Clemons or someone just got a vote of confidence. Either that or the plan went to pot and they will pray for a June 1st cut to come to the rescue... ;)

[shally]

Since Keith Adams is now off the radar as a possible replacement for Lavar Arrington at WLB (Signed with Carolina), I thought a new thread to discuss the possibilities of a replacement was warranted.

You can still read the Keith Adams thread in the archives here: http://www.hailredskins.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=33873

Have at it hR.

right now, chris clemons has the inside track.

but, watch and see if they sign holdman. if they do, especially if it is after OTA's, then it would seem to mean that the coaches are concerned about clemons being more than a third down player.

if they draft a linebacker with the second round pick, it probably means that
holdman will get signed until clemons improves or the draft pick is ready for playing time..

[FanFromArizona]

I think the WLB is the biggest question mark the FANS have right now, I wonder how the coaches are interpreting use a draft pick on this position right now: a need or a luxury?

Looking on the Internet for depth at WSL, there are not many LBs left out there currently, the best LB left remaining with experience is Nick Griesen, but I remember reports that stated we were not interested. The Titans are the latest team inquiring about Griesen, and the last statement about him was that they were waiting until after the draft. NFL Depth Chart for Free Agents (http://www.kffl.com/nfldc.php/38/nfl) It would be nice to see if we could steal some knowledge from him about how the Gints offense work, similar to what Pierce and Hasselback did to us last year.

I am totally on the Clemons train, he will just need to develop and it is my hope he is the last man standing out of TC that he gets the nod at this position.

[shally]

Yes, and unless D'Qwell Jackson is the best LB left at #53, can we please end talk of moving Lemar back outside? He had stats very comparable to APs and he led the team in picks, plus it was his first year. Let the man learn ONE position and pretty soon he'll be a star.

totally agree about leaving lemar inthe middle. no good can come from shifting him back and forth. he got better last year as the season wore on. let's find a first rate replacement for lavar and leave marshall inside..

[HanburgerBum]

I am thinking that Chris Clemons will get first shot at starting there. I am also thinking that Holdman will be brought back at the veteran's minimum as insurance.

Also in the mix will be Sykes (from Denver) if Clemons is unable to nail down the spot on 1st and 2nd downs. One player I think who won't be in the mix is McCune (too mechanical, no football instincts).

Best draft scenario: Roger McIntosh, who may be ready to start by the middle of the season. If he is unavailable at #53, Jon Alston or Thomas Howard should be.

[Syllable]

If Holdman can improve on last years effort - he'll be just fine. And I think the same about Clemons ........... On the flip side - won't be surprise to see our second round draft pick going for the best LB on the board (at that time).
If we play holdman I KNOW we will get torn apart on his side. He was never near the ball in the games he played and bearly did anything. I think he is way to old or lost motivation to go for the ball. Drafting looks like our only way of getting someone worthwhile.

[NCskinsfanatic]

I am thinking that Chris Clemons will get first shot at starting there. I am also thinking that Holdman will be brought back at the veteran's minimum as insurance.

Also in the mix will be Sykes (from Denver) if Clemons is unable to nail down the spot on 1st and 2nd downs. One player I think who won't be in the mix is McCune (too mechanical, no football instincts).

Best draft scenario: Roger McIntosh, who may be ready to start by the middle of the season. If he is unavailable at #53, Jon Alston or Thomas Howard should be.

My thoughts exactly HanburgerBum, I think Clemons will improve but I still have my doubts about him being an everydown player at this level. I dont know much about Sykes But I dont really view him as the "answer" either. Holdman was decent and knows the scheme his reaction time should be better in his 2nd year with us, hey he couldnt play much worse. I also think that we will pick the best LB available( for our scheme) at #53., that is if we dont trade up into the early 2nd round to get our guy......:) .

[ConradCountry]

Apparently the Falcons are shopping Demorrio Williams their will LB.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493115

[silverspring]

I think we have to use our 2nd rounder for a linebacker. I don't expect we will get an immediate starter out of that pick but I do think we can get someone that will rotate with clemons and possible mccune. I see that position being filled with a constant rotation. I think clemons will play the most, mccune might come in for run support and our #2 will fill in the rest of the snaps. It is still possible we pick up a free agent but i think at this point this might be the best strategy. Last year holdman was pretty mediocre, lavar was clearly better but wasn't playing where he needed to be but in both cases we still did pretty good,so I think we can make due and hope clemons and our draft pick steps up.

[CowboyKilla]

I'll get off the fence on this one right now. Chris Clemons will bulk up a little and grow into our starting OLB. Also, our first pick in the draft will be a CB, which one?, who knows. I feel better but still don't know if I'm right. Oh well, Happy Easter to all.

[GoDannyBoy]

Either that or the plan went to pot and they will pray for a June 1st cut to come to the rescue... ;)

I am with you on everything but June 1. Every move Gibbs has made has been well planned and executed. I can not believe we will rely on June 1 cap casualty!

It does seem they didn't go after any FA backers so they must be happy with what they got. All of us training camp junkie ought to be happy.

[silverspring]

I'll get off the fence on this one right now. Chris Clemons will bulk up a little and grow into our starting OLB. Also, our first pick in the draft will be a CB, which one?, who knows. I feel better but still don't know if I'm right. Oh well, Happy Easter to all.

I don't see it, with springs, rogers, right and jimoh we are pretty set at corner right now. We need a decent 5th that can take injury duty but i am pretty happy with what we got. At linebacker though we have a completely open spot and no quality depth past clemons.

[shally]

I'll get off the fence on this one right now. Chris Clemons will bulk up a little and grow into our starting OLB. Also, our first pick in the draft will be a CB, which one?, who knows. I feel better but still don't know if I'm right. Oh well, Happy Easter to all.

i agree with you on the first half... as to the second, it will depend upon who is left on the board. the skins will go with the best player at one of several positions. it would not surprise me one bit if they took an o lineman...

on the other hand, i could see them adding a second pick by trading one of next years drafts.. remember since 1981 the skins have traded their future first rounder 10 times! i bet that is more than any other nfl team by a wide margin..

[shally]

I am with you on everything but June 1. Every move Gibbs has made has been well planned and executed. I can not believe we will rely on June 1 cap casualty!

It does seem they didn't go after any FA backers so they must be happy with what they got. All of us training camp junkie ought to be happy.

i agree with you. i think we will be very quiet after june 1.. the only guy i could see us adding then would be holdman..

[Redskinfan28]

Apparently the Falcons are shopping Demorrio Williams their will LB.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493115

Why? Where did you hear that?

[CowboyKilla]

I think Both needs are really important. The LB need is definitely more apparent because Holdman didn't really play very well last year and Lavar is gone.
But just for arguments sake Springs is no "spring chicken" and both he and Rogers had some injuries last year. Walt Harris was burned at times last year as our 2nd starter(due to injuries, rogers being a rook) and Nickel and really cost us in some games (Tampa Bay). Is Jimoh ready? Is Wright the answer? I don't think it's all that "sewn up".

Also I have a feeling we trade next years pick to move up the board to snatch up the CB we want. Doing everything we can to hold onto this years
2nd round pick where we will pick the LB you mentioned. Just going out on a limb....

[shally]

I think Both needs are really important. The LB need is definitely more apparent because Holdman didn't really play very well last year and Lavar is gone.
But just for arguments sake Springs is no "spring chicken" and both he and Rogers had some injuries last year. Walt Harris was burned at times last year as our 2nd starter(due to injuries, rogers being a rook) and Nickel and really cost us in some games (Tampa Bay). Is Jimoh ready? Is Wright the answer? I don't think it's all that "sewn up".

Also I have a feeling we trade next years pick to move up the board to snatch up the CB we want. Doing everything we can to hold onto this years
2nd round pick where we will pick the LB you mentioned. Just going out on a limb....

again, if you are a betting man, 10 out of 25 is pretty good odds of something happening.. the skins like to use next year's number one pick for immediate impact...

[silverspring]

I think Both needs are really important. The LB need is definitely more apparent because Holdman didn't really play very well last year and Lavar is gone.
But just for arguments sake Springs is no "spring chicken" and both he and Rogers had some injuries last year. Walt Harris was burned at times last year as our 2nd starter(due to injuries, rogers being a rook) and Nickel and really cost us in some games (Tampa Bay). Is Jimoh ready? Is Wright the answer? I don't think it's all that "sewn up".

Also I have a feeling we trade next years pick to move up the board to snatch up the CB we want. Doing everything we can to hold onto this years
2nd round pick where we will pick the LB you mentioned. Just going out on a limb....

But still if the coaches didn't think wright could fill that nickel role then why pick him up, i think he will be just fine. I agree springs is close to the end of his career and we need to start thinking of his replacement with a top flight corner. I don't think we are going to find that top flight corner in the 2nd round so like you said if that happens we will have to trade up. But I kind of feel like GW might have already gotten his big defensive back pick up in arhuleta. However, it isn't a bad idea to trade up cause if we could trade away next years pick it isn't a bad idea cause it will probably be one of the last picks anyways.

[shally]

But still if the coaches didn't think wright could fill that nickel role then why pick him up, i think he will be just fine. I agree springs is close to the end of his career and we need to start thinking of his replacement with a top flight corner. I don't think we are going to find that top flight corner in the 2nd round so like you said if that happens we will have to trade up. But I kind of feel like GW might have already gotten his big defensive back pick up in arhuleta. However, it isn't a bad idea to trade up cause if we could trade away next years pick it isn't a bad idea cause it will probably be one of the last picks anyways.

what ? you don't think jimoh will be ready to fill spring's shoes (jock?) in a year or 2 ? just kidding...

but you cannot have too many cover corners now... getting a potential first round talent inthe second round would be tough to pass up for the future good of the team. i just do not think that cromartie will be there when the skins pick

[23rd year fan]

without a doubt we need to draft a lb at 53. the draft is so deep at that postion that we will undoubtedly get someone who can start and excell towards years end. there will be no cb available better than whatever lb is left. dallas will pick a lb, so will philly, and so will nyg, just in an attempt to stick it to us as best they can, for they too can hear the quiet beating of drums in the dawn and dusk of the warpath. no reason to get a starting cb at 53 when ssprings isnt and should not be going anywhere for 3 years, this guy IS a core guy as well as a leader and not just on defense my friends. we can scoop up someone who can slowly work in and learn from ssprings on day two of the draft. stop worrying about depth so much man, this guy getting hurt, or that guy getting injured. we are redskins fans, the best and most loyal in the world, stay positive and aggressive, if someone goes down, just like last year some one will step in, and in some cases like lemar they will step up. were only getting better. hail and booyaakaa!!! game on:Padawan:

[LATrueRedskin]

All I know is I'm not confident in having Chris Clemons starting every down for us. He's a good change-of-pace pass rusher, but we haven't seen much of him in assignment work and playing the run and pass.

I'd much rather have Warrick Holdman starting for us as he did before. He's not a big playmaker, but he doesn't screw up either. I say sign him and draft a guy with our first draft pick this year.

[PA Skins Girl]

I'm kind of glad we didnt get Adams. Let's see what the draft brings, then re-evaluate.

[redwolf1218]

I'm kind of glad we didnt get Adams. Let's see what the draft brings, then re-evaluate.
i didnt want him either. i dont think there's anyone out there right now as a free agent that really fits the description of what we need. i really believe that Marshall is only playing in the middle because of the cerebral aspect of that position in Williams' scheme of things, but i'd like to see him on the outside, and i dont see why he couldnt call the signals and get everyone lined up correctly from there. that would allow McCune, or someone else to play in the middle.

[shally]

i didnt want him either. i dont think there's anyone out there right now as a free agent that really fits the description of what we need. i really believe that Marshall is only playing in the middle because of the cerebral aspect of that position in Williams' scheme of things, but i'd like to see him on the outside, and i dont see why he couldnt call the signals and get everyone lined up correctly from there. that would allow McCune, or someone else to play in the middle.

in principle i agree with you.. but if it came down to adams or holdman (whom i think we will re sign now) then i wish it to be adams... if we go with clemons, mccune plus a draft pick i will be happy

[HanburgerBum]

i didnt want him either. i dont think there's anyone out there right now as a free agent that really fits the description of what we need. i really believe that Marshall is only playing in the middle because of the cerebral aspect of that position in Williams' scheme of things, but i'd like to see him on the outside, and i dont see why he couldnt call the signals and get everyone lined up correctly from there. that would allow McCune, or someone else to play in the middle.


I doubt you will ever see McCune play one down at MLB. If he had the physical and mental tools to play that position in the GW defense, he would never have been cut last year. Also, there would not be any attempt to move him to the outside. McCune has got "bust" written all over him. Then again, a 5th rounder doesn't often become a starter in the NFL in the first place. If the Skins are really relying on McCune as a solution at LB, they are a lot thinner there than we realize.

[shally]

I doubt you will ever see McCune play one down at MLB. If he had the physical and mental tools to play that position in the GW defense, he would never have been cut last year. Also, there would not be any attempt to move him to the outside. McCune has got "bust" written all over him. Then again, a 5th rounder doesn't often become a starter in the NFL in the first place. If the Skins are really relying on McCune as a solution at LB, they are a lot thinner there than we realize.

except that williams defenses are confusing to many young linebackers..but there better be a whole lot of improvement this year out of mccune or we are looking at a player who will be primarily a special teamer.

for those touting alston as a potential pick for the skins in round 2 this year, he has many of the same negatives written about him that mccune did-- as well as some of the same positives.. which is why i hope we end up with mcintosh or howard or ryans as a linebacker pick, instead of alston...

we also did not do to well with our other linebacker pick last year.. newberry.. he is toiling in nfl europe this off season..for another team !

[HanburgerBum]

except that williams defenses are confusing to many young linebackers..but there better be a whole lot of improvement this year out of mccune or we are looking at a player who will be primarily a special teamer.

for those touting alston as a potential pick for the skins in round 2 this year, he has many of the same negatives written about him that mccune did-- as well as some of the same positives.. which is why i hope we end up with mcintosh or howard or ryans as a linebacker pick, instead of alston...

we also did not do to well with our other linebacker pick last year.. newberry.. he is toiling in nfl europe this off season..for another team !


I have read conflicting reports on Alston. Some think he is non-instinctive and is just a combine work horse, speed freak. Others think that he can develop into a star OLB. Since I fear that McIntosh may not fall to #53, I sure hope the latter group is right about Alston (because I think that's who the Skins will pick).

As for the Skins recent drafts below the third round, you are right that they have yielded very little (fortunately, our first day picks have been excellent). That's why the team has to constantly look to free agency for quality backups. It's time to reverse that trend and get at least two decent developmental players from day two of this draft. If the 2nd rounder isn't spend on a OLineman, April 30 had better bring at least one that can play in the NFL.

[helimech24]

I think if we were going to get a new OLB, it would have happened already. We might draft one late, but I don't think we will use it as the second pick, and I wouldn't really want too. We did fine last year when Lavar wasn't in there and I would expect nothing less this year. I think a Oline man is a better option with the #53 pick.

[shally]

I have read conflicting reports on Alston. Some think he is non-instinctive and is just a combine work horse, speed freak. Others think that he can develop into a star OLB. Since I fear that McIntosh may not fall to #53, I sure hope the latter group is right about Alston (because I think that's who the Skins will pick).

As for the Skins recent drafts below the third round, you are right that they have yielded very little (fortunately, our first day picks have been excellent). That's why the team has to constantly look to free agency for quality backups. It's time to reverse that trend and get at least two decent developmental players from day two of this draft. If the 2nd rounder isn't spend on a OLineman, April 30 had better bring at least one that can play in the NFL.

it sure would be nice to get some productivity from the second day of the draft. sometimes i think it would be better to trade all those picks and roll them into a first day pick, and then just sign a whole bunch of non drafted free agents. we have about as much luck with those guys as we seem to have with low rounders.... not ready to give up yet, but it sure would be good to see some keepers for a change..

[shally]

I think if we were going to get a new OLB, it would have happened already. We might draft one late, but I don't think we will use it as the second pick, and I wouldn't really want too. We did fine last year when Lavar wasn't in there and I would expect nothing less this year. I think a Oline man is a better option with the #53 pick.

we kind of did well in spite of weakness at the Will linebacker spot.. imagine how good the defense would be with a superior player there.

i have to believe that when the skins are still pointing to that spot as one they want to improve, something will happen inthe draft or free agency..

[shally]

Since Keith Adams is now off the radar as a possible replacement for Lavar Arrington at WLB (Signed with Carolina), I thought a new thread to discuss the possibilities of a replacement was warranted.

You can still read the Keith Adams thread in the archives here: http://www.hailredskins.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=33873

Have at it hR.

i wonder if there is any interest in nick griesen... he can play inside or out and is only 26... he does have an injury history, but would seem to be a reasonable player..

any thoughts??

[CNYSkinFan]

I really believe the OLB scenario will play out thusly:

We will draft an OLB with our first pick, whether a trade up or not. This OLB will battle with Clemons for the starting Will position next to Lemar Marshall and Marcus Washington.

Holdman will not be resigned. I think Dale Lindsey is interested but if GW wanted him, he would be here now. There are no cap issues or roster limitations, and he should be willing to play for vet minimum so there is no risk in cutting him and causing a cap hit. This off season we signed Sykes and resigned Campbell and Clemons. If we had interest in him he would be here.

Clemons will win the battle at OLB and our rookie will be the main backup to him and Washington and see action in our 3-4 sets. Campbell will be the backup for Marshall and Sykes and McCune and any low round draft picks will battle for the last couple of LBer spots on the roster.

[skinfan08]

Why not Chad Brown? he is a very experienced OLB and will probably have to settle for the veterens minimum.
Or even Peter Bowlware though he might not settle for the minimum. or even Kevin Hardy

[shally]

Why not Chad Brown? he is a very experienced OLB and will probably have to settle for the veterens minimum.
Or even Peter Bowlware though he might not settle for the minimum. or even Kevin Hardy


too old... too old.. and too old....

i do not see us going after anyone nearing 30 or beyond at this point

[redwolf1218]

I doubt you will ever see McCune play one down at MLB. If he had the physical and mental tools to play that position in the GW defense, he would never have been cut last year. Also, there would not be any attempt to move him to the outside. McCune has got "bust" written all over him. Then again, a 5th rounder doesn't often become a starter in the NFL in the first place. If the Skins are really relying on McCune as a solution at LB, they are a lot thinner there than we realize.
i dont know, Pierce was undrafted. Marshall has played inside and outside linebacker. both of them took several years to develop. there are many similar stories. you may be right about McCune, but i think it's rushing to a conclusion to call him a bust so soon.

[shally]

i dont know, Pierce was undrafted. Marshall has played inside and outside linebacker. both of them took several years to develop. there are many similar stories. you may be right about McCune, but i think it's rushing to a conclusion to call him a bust so soon.

nobody should call mccune a bust yet.. but he has yet to grasp he can master the mental aspect of williams defenses.

not to be forgotten is the fact that both pierce and marshall had several years of reserve and special teams play before they made the leap to starting..

plus, they are talking about moving mccune to a new position outside. it might end up being another year of learning for him.. still, it would be really nice to see him playing as a starter in some preseason games..

[FanFromArizona]

Panthers | Contract update: K. Adams
Mon, 17 Apr 2006 10:31:09 -0700

Carolina Panthers LB Keith Adams' two-year contract with the Panthers included base salaries of $585,000 (2006) and $595,000 (2007).


If you read into this, one possible interpretation is that we did NOT really pursue Keith Adams if this was the best he could get. I mean, we are not exactly challenged for money right now, and our offer was LOWER?

The fact that we lowballed Adams sends a signal that GW/DL et al have faith in bringing back Chris Clemons and is a sign that we will probably go after a LB in the draft.

[shally]

If you read into this, one possible interpretation is that we did NOT really pursue Keith Adams if this was the best he could get. I mean, we are not exactly challenged for money right now, and our offer was LOWER?

The fact that we lowballed Adams sends a signal that GW/DL et al have faith in bringing back Chris Clemons and is a sign that we will probably go after a LB in the draft.

yes... and yes....

it also may have had something to do with promised playing time

[mrhalfbreed]

KFFL.com

Redskins | C. Clemons has advantage to win weak-side linebacker job
Mon, 17 Apr 2006 18:13:59 -0700

Gary Fitzgerald, of Redskins.com, reports Washington Redskins LB Chris Clemons has the advantage to win the starting weak-side linebacker role. LB Robert McCune is a candidate, but saw limited playing time during the 2005 season. LB Jashon Sykes did not play at all last season.

[HanburgerBum]

i dont know, Pierce was undrafted. Marshall has played inside and outside linebacker. both of them took several years to develop. there are many similar stories. you may be right about McCune, but i think it's rushing to a conclusion to call him a bust so soon.


Believe me, I hope I am wrong about McCune. But, I just don't see him as a position player. I think he was drafted primarily for the special teams as part of Gibbs plan to improve them.

Not only is McCune mechanical and lacking in instincts, he was not the typical rookie in terms of age. He was already 26 when he was drafted and thus won't have much time to develope. Besides, this team is ready for a serious run deep into the playoffs. It is unlikely the coaching staff will have the confidence to put him in games or the patience to wait for him to develope. If he is going to make the roster, he better be a beast on special teams.

[redwolf1218]

well maybe Chris Clemons is ready to start. he could be the next Pierce or Marshall, as far as being a nobody who becomes a starter for Greg Williams' defense. he and Marcus Washington are both 6'-3 and they could make an impressive set of bookends as outside linebackers. i'd rather see what he can do than to see anymore of what Holdman can do.

from redskins.com:
During the last three years, Clemons has forged a close bond with the team's coaches, particularly linebackers coach Dale Lindsey. In turn, coaches feel they can trust Clemons in the lineup because they have helped developed his skills.

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=16524

i just hope McCune's lack of playing time is not an indicator that he is already a bust. i dont want to believe all these picks were wasted, but that may very well be the case:

Manuel White, Robert McCune, Jared Newberry, Nehemiah Broughton, Mark Wilson

[shally]

well maybe Chris Clemons is ready to start. he could be the next Pierce or Marshall, as far as being a nobody who becomes a starter for Greg Williams' defense. he and Marcus Washington are both 6'-3 and they could make an impressive set of bookends as outside linebackers. i'd rather see what he can do than to see anymore of what Holdman can do.

from redskins.com:
During the last three years, Clemons has forged a close bond with the team's coaches, particularly linebackers coach Dale Lindsey. In turn, coaches feel they can trust Clemons in the lineup because they have helped developed his skills.

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=16524

i just hope McCune's lack of playing time is not an indicator that he is already a bust. i dont want to believe all these picks were wasted, but that may very well be the case:

Manuel White, Robert McCune, Jared Newberry, Nehemiah Broughton, Mark Wilson

which is why my take on the situation is that:

we ought to trade as many second day picks as it takes to move into the first day...

use next year's picks to get another shot at a first day player, including the first and second picks if needed..

yup. i know it runs contrary to most people's thoughts and it brings up the bogeyman of trading off the future (similar to the cap strategy that we use- it runs contrary)

the plain truth is that we suck at picking roster players on the second day of the draft. 5 players total on the roster-- 2 if you take away last years second day players. you can take the position that gibbs will change that equation. you could be right. but gibbs first 2 drafts have produced 4 second day players. not exactly a treasure trove.

and the team can sign as many post draft players as they want- essentially there is no limit up to the roster limit of 80 or whatever it is. find our second day players on the third day, as it were. that route has produced pierce, marshall, clemons, keasey, watson, clark... players capable of making our roster at one time, and other teams rosters as of now. how many of our second day draftees are even still in the league at all?

just food for thought...

just food for thought

[SpicyMcHaggis]

use next year's picks to get another shot at a first day player, including the first and second picks if needed..

The problem I see with trying to trade next year's picks for picks this year is that I don't know how much we would be able to get out of them..next year's #2 is worth about a mid-third rounder this year and next year's #1 about a mid-second rounder this year..it seems kinda a lot to give up to not even get in the first round this year..

[redwolf1218]

i tend to agree with the idea of doing whatever it takes to get an impact player, rather than waiting around to grab 5 or 6 special teams backups. as shally said, we can get some of those guys on the 3rd day.

there i a numerical equation for the value it takes to move up, but i dont know what it is...i dont know if have that type of ammunition, but if we do and someone wants to trade down maybe even for salary cap reasons or whatever, maybe they dont want to pay for a first rounder this year, then i'd be all for it.

[shally]

The problem I see with trying to trade next year's picks for picks this year is that I don't know how much we would be able to get out of them..next year's #2 is worth about a mid-third rounder this year and next year's #1 about a mid-second rounder this year..it seems kinda a lot to give up to not even get in the first round this year..

no question, you are losing "value" with every trade.. it places a lot of stress on the front office to make every free agent signing a winner. but that is the strategy that we do best. and it gets more expensive if we have to sign vet free agents because we miss on a lot of our rookie free agent picks..

but i would rather have fewer first day picks, and fewer picks overall and have them be higher. i just think we suck at second day picks and have for a long time.

the arguement that we were able to pick players like monte coleman and crhis hanburger comes from the time when we had 12 or 18 rounds.. and i am not sure our percentage of hits was any greater then either. we had an awful lot of misses from the second day picks then as well. we had one mother load draft-- the 1981 draft-- most of the others were pretty forgetable once you get past the second round..

just food for thought

[shally]

i tend to agree with the idea of doing whatever it takes to get an impact player, rather than waiting around to grab 5 or 6 special teams backups. as shally said, we can get some of those guys on the 3rd day.

especially if the only reason they are on the roster is that it would be embarrassing to admit your entire class of second day players is a washout (not completely true, but close)

[SpicyMcHaggis]

no question, you are losing "value" with every trade.. it places a lot of stress on the front office to make every free agent signing a winner. but that is the strategy that we do best. and it gets more expensive if we have to sign vet free agents because we miss on a lot of our rookie free agent picks..

but i would rather have fewer first day picks, and fewer picks overall and have them be higher. i just think we suck at second day picks and have for a long time.

the arguement that we were able to pick players like monte coleman and crhis hanburger comes from the time when we had 12 or 18 rounds.. and i am not sure our percentage of hits was any greater then either. we had an awful lot of misses from the second day picks then as well. we had one mother load draft-- the 1981 draft-- most of the others were pretty forgetable once you get past the second round..

just food for thought

I agree with your reasoning..what I'm saying is that with only a low second round pick this year, and with the general perception that we will be a pretty good team next year, we don't have much ammo to move into the first round this year..first day certainly, but first round I don't know...it's kinda the opposite of what happended when we traded with Denver to get Campbell..everybody thought we would suck last year so we ended up getting a first rounder, but I don't know if we could pull that off this year..

[shally]

I agree with your reasoning..what I'm saying is that with only a low second round pick this year, and with the general perception that we will be a pretty good team next year, we don't have much ammo to move into the first round this year..first day certainly, but first round I don't know...it's kinda the opposite of what happended when we traded with Denver to get Campbell..everybody thought we would suck last year so we ended up getting a first rounder, but I don't know if we could pull that off this year..

all true... but from everything i have read, this years draft is very deep in quality players inrounds 2 and 3.. very little difference between those players and the ones in the end of round 1... this is born out by the discussions about linebackers and corners-- all of them cannot end up being first rounders. but a lot of them should be solid players- possibly starters
we could snag a couple of these players by trading up and trading next years drafts.. there is risk in doing so for certain, but look at whom we have drafted second day inyears past to see exactly what is at risk

[SpicyMcHaggis]

all true... but from everything i have read, this years draft is very deep in quality players inrounds 2 and 3.. very little difference between those players and the ones in the end of round 1... this is born out by the discussions about linebackers and corners-- all of them cannot end up being first rounders. but a lot of them should be solid players- possibly starters
we could snag a couple of these players by trading up and trading next years drafts.. there is risk in doing so for certain, but look at whom we have drafted second day inyears past to see exactly what is at risk

Using second day picks to move into the first day is a great idea IMO..I don't know if we have the picks to do it with no 4th available, but nontheless it's a great idea..
But trading away our first rounder next year for a second rounder this year doesn't seem to smart to me..especially since we're pretty good with first round picks..if we could package our second rounder and first next year to move into the first round this year then I would certainly be all for it, but I just don't think we'll be able to do that..again,if we could than I would be thrilled...

[redwolf1218]

Using second day picks to move into the first day is a great idea IMO..I don't know if we have the picks to do it with no 4th available, but nontheless it's a great idea..
But trading away our first rounder next year for a second rounder this year doesn't seem to smart to me..especially since we're pretty good with first round picks..if we could package our second rounder and first next year to move into the first round this year then I would certainly be all for it, but I just don't think we'll be able to do that..again,if we could than I would be thrilled...
it might take a trade partner who has more than one 1st round pick, but no cap space to sign them, who also wants to load up on late round picks instead.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

it might take a trade partner who has more than one 1st round pick, but no cap space to sign them, who also wants to load up on late round picks instead.

The Broncos! That would be hilarious..they would give us our first rounder right back...

[shally]

The Broncos! That would be hilarious..they would give us our first rounder right back...

they will use those picks to move up... but they could net out a second rounder as part of the trade and that would be our target, i think..

[chrisbcbu]

I really didnt want to start a thread about Warrick Holdman. But Larry Michael just said that Holdman has been re-signed.

Here is the link for it. http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=16532
ugh!!

[AliBabba]

they will use those picks to move up... but they could net out a second rounder as part of the trade and that would be our target, i think..

why do we need to move up in the draft? Why can't we get a decent LB with pick #53. Looking at the prospects available this year, there are 8 or 9 guys I would be happy with. I highly doubt all will be gone by the time our pick comes up.

Also, let's have some faith in Clemons, GW, Lindsay, and our player development. We've gotten alot more out of players that we didn't expect much from recently; especially on defense.

Let's hold onto that 1st pick for next year, what if we don't resign either Cooley or Dock? I think that either of those would be a much bigger concern to address than our current LB situation.

[AliBabba]

I really didnt want to start a thread about Warrick Holdman. But Larry just said that Holdman has been re-signed.

ugh!!

God!!!!! *#&! [EXPLETIVE DELETED] SON OF A [[EXPLETIVE DELETED] NO PLEASE [EXPLETIVE DELETED] WHY???

[CNYSkinFan]

Ok everyone in the NFL get ready to run to the Left each and every time. Away from Carter and Washington into Daniels and Holdman.

[chrisbcbu]

Ok everyone in the NFL get ready to run to the Left each and every time. Away from Carter and Washington into Daniels and Holdman.

I really hope Clemons starts and Holdman is strictly for backup purposes.

[CNYSkinFan]

I really hope Clemons starts and Holdman is strictly for backup purposes.
Holdman either starts or gets cut. he does not play special teams. Looks like Lindsey got his way.

[chrisbcbu]

Holdman either starts or gets cut. he does not play special teams. Looks like Lindsey got his way.

I thought Holdman was able to play all 3 LB positions. I could be wrong but i was pretty sure i had read that somewhere.

While i dont want him on the field EVER. I think it would be good for depth. If he gets cut then i wouldnt lose any sleep over it either.

Of course i would much rather get a rookie. Someone like Mcintosh or someone like that in the 2nd if we dont draft a CB.

[CNYSkinFan]

I thought Holdman was able to play all 3 LB positions. I could be wrong but i was pretty sure i had read that somewhere.

While i dont want him on the field EVER. I think it would be good for depth. If he gets cut then i wouldnt lose any sleep over it either.

Of course i would much rather get a rookie. Someone like Mcintosh or someone like that in the 2nd if we dont draft a CB.
I have yet to see evidence Holdman can play any lb position.....but that's just me.

[chrisbcbu]

I have yet to see evidence Holdman can play any lb position.....but that's just me.

LMAO, while with the Redskins i agree. But he did have 1 very good season with the Bears and i think that is why Lindsey and Blanche love the guy.

here is the link on the signing Redskins.com (http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=16532)
He had his best season in 2001 with the Bears, setting career-high with 145 tackles (101 solo) and three forced fumbles.

[CNYSkinFan]

LMAO, while with the Redskins i agree. But he did have 1 very good season with the Bears and i think that is why Lindsey and Blanche love the guy.

here is the link on the signing Redskins.com (http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=16532)

Ancient history....hell Lavar had a better year last year in half a season then Holdman has had any year since 2001.


PLEASE DRAFT A LBer. Holdman is not the answer. He was dumped on his but by WRers more often then not last year.

[AliBabba]

LMAO, while with the Redskins i agree. But he did have 1 very good season with the Bears and i think that is why Lindsey and Blanche love the guy.

So what?? The other night, at the bar across the street, I threw a dart behind my back that ended up a perfect bullseye, from TWENTY FEET AWAY.

I'm not expecting THAT to happen again. Lindsay's nuts.

[chrisbcbu]

So what?? The other night, at the bar across the street, I threw a dart behind my back that ended up a perfect bullseye, from TWENTY FEET AWAY.

I'm not expecting THAT to happen again. Lindsay's nuts.

Im not saying i like the guy. Im just trying to think of a reason why he is still on this team. And that is the only reason i can think of.

Can you think of another reason why Lindsay loves the guy? Cause i sure cant.

[redwolf1218]

does anyone know...did he already have an offer on the table and just waited until now to sign it, or did they wait this long to make him an offer?

[AliBabba]

Im not saying i like the guy. Im just trying to think of a reason why he is still on this team. And that is the only reason i can think of.

Can you think of another reason why Lindsay loves the guy? Cause i sure cant.

No you are most def right ... but Lindsay is also wrong.

As long as this is only for depth and maybe to push Clemons a little harder, fine. BUT if this effects our drafting an upper-tier LB in 11 days, I am pissed. I'm not saying that Clemons can't get the job done long-term, but I am saying that I don't know. I do know that Holdman doesn't have it in him anymore to start or even to contribute much at a high level. We should have drafted the depth we needed.

BOOOO. HISSSSSSS.

[shally]

I really didnt want to start a thread about Warrick Holdman. But Larry Michael just said that Holdman has been re-signed.

Here is the link for it. http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=16532
ugh!!

somebody likes him in the coaching staff. you could see that one coming

[shally]

No you are most def right ... but Lindsay is also wrong.

As long as this is only for depth and maybe to push Clemons a little harder, fine. BUT if this effects our drafting an upper-tier LB in 11 days, I am pissed. I'm not saying that Clemons can't get the job done long-term, but I am saying that I don't know. I do know that Holdman doesn't have it in him anymore to start or even to contribute much at a high level. We should have drafted the depth we needed.

BOOOO. HISSSSSSS.


i agree... but we might still draft for lb depth...

holdman is there because the staff does not fully trust clemons to step up

[shally]

No you are most def right ... but Lindsay is also wrong.

As long as this is only for depth and maybe to push Clemons a little harder, fine. BUT if this effects our drafting an upper-tier LB in 11 days, I am pissed. I'm not saying that Clemons can't get the job done long-term, but I am saying that I don't know. I do know that Holdman doesn't have it in him anymore to start or even to contribute much at a high level. We should have drafted the depth we needed.

BOOOO. HISSSSSSS.

i think we might still draft a linebacker, but this makes it less likely. i wonder if cromartie is the real target to move up ?

it also says they do not fully trust clemons to get er done. it will push him for sure.

[CNYSkinFan]

i agree... but we might still draft for lb depth...

holdman is there because the staff does not fully trust clemons to step up
all it really says is that Dale Lindsey still has a man crush on Holdman.

[shally]

LMAO, while with the Redskins i agree. But he did have 1 very good season with the Bears and i think that is why Lindsey and Blanche love the guy.

here is the link on the signing Redskins.com (http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=16532)


he has never been the same after he had a knee injury.. selective memory by blache and lindsay.. they are looking at old bear's tapes..LOL

[shally]

all it really says is that Dale Lindsey still has a man crush on Holdman.


true.. but if clemons cannot beat out holdman then he does not deserve to start.. period..

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I refuse to think that the whole coaching staff can be satisfied with Holdman as the starter at the OLB position..if he is signed for depth and because he knows the system then fine, but I really really hope he is not being penciled in as the starter..if they wanna draft a LB with our second rounder great, if they wanna start Cleamons fine, whatever..but Holdman starting must not happen...

[SpicyMcHaggis]

true.. but if clemons cannot beat out holdman then he does not deserve to start.. period..
If Cleamons cannot beat out Holdman he doesn't deserve a spot on the roster.

[The Skinsinator]

I refuse to think that the whole coaching staff can be satisfied with Holdman as the starter at the OLB position..if he is signed for depth and because he knows the system then fine, but I really really hope he is not being penciled in as the starter..if they wanna draft a LB with our second rounder great, if they wanna start Cleamons fine, whatever..but Holdman starting must not happen...These are my thoughts exactly. Warrick Holdman isn't close to being a starter in this league yet alone with our talent filled defense. Draft a linebacker with our pick and start Clemons. I want Holdman for depth no more no less.

[CNYSkinFan]

true.. but if clemons cannot beat out holdman then he does not deserve to start.. period..
If it is on the up and up. This is a Danny Wuerfel situation. No matter how bad he was Spurrier loved him. Snyder and Cerrato had to step in and say no you cna't have him./ It may get that bad with holdman.

[Warpath23]

Lol, Clemons has talent & speed but I have to wonder if he can take the ponding of teams running right at him...Holdman got out of position so much it was sad to watch. leaving huge running lanes will get you cut in GW's scheme.

[shally]

If Cleamons cannot beat out Holdman he doesn't deserve a spot on the roster.


that is a cruel way of looking at it, but it might be true.. clemons plays special teams and can rush the passer. what can holdman offer if he is not starting? so if holdman starts and we draft a linebacker then clemons is likely the odd man out inthat scenario

[shally]

If it is on the up and up. This is a Danny Wuerfel situation. No matter how bad he was Spurrier loved him. Snyder and Cerrato had to step in and say no you cna't have him./ It may get that bad with holdman.


why should holdman alone be worthy of that exalted position ? nobody else gets favored treatment that way?

[AliBabba]

If it is on the up and up. This is a Danny Wuerfel situation. No matter how bad he was Spurrier loved him. Snyder and Cerrato had to step in and say no you cna't have him./ It may get that bad with holdman.

You are really serious about this mancrush thing, huh? If you are right I hope we draft our next LB based on his dazzling good looks then, so that Holdman can become yesterday's news to Dale

[CNYSkinFan]

You are really serious about this mancrush thing, huh? If you are right I hope we draft our next LB based on his dazzling good looks then, so that Holdman can become yesterday's news to Dale
Do you have a better explanation? I don't.

[AliBabba]

Do you have a better explanation? I don't.

Sadly no ... this move really sucks. Only b/c as others, and especially you CNYSkinfan (Dustin???) have said, it opens the door to this guy possibiliy starting. He's only older now and has an inexperienced kid behind him on the depth chart (if he's starting).

If he couldn't get motivated to play hard/well with a 3-time pro-bowler waiting to take his starting role, then he never will. His angles/efforts/instincts last year clearly showed me that he should never start on this defense. If he is to take a Todd Collins type role, thats fine, still not happy, but I can live with that.

[shally]

Do you have a better explanation? I don't.


selective memory.??. holdman was once a fine linebacker with the bears..

[shally]

Sadly no ... this move really sucks. Only b/c as others, and especially you CNYSkinfan (Dustin???) have said, it opens the door to this guy possibiliy starting. He's only older now and has an inexperienced kid behind him on the depth chart (if he's starting).

If he couldn't get motivated to play hard/well with a 3-time pro-bowler waiting to take his starting role, then he never will. His angles/efforts/instincts last year clearly showed me that he should never start on this defense. If he is to take a Todd Collins type role, thats fine, still not happy, but I can live with that.


then cut him and make him an assistant coach... better than taking up a spot from a young player who could improve...

[AliBabba]

then cut him and make him an assistant coach... better than taking up a spot from a young player who could improve...

you're telling me. I don't hate the guy but I did at times last year. After the Broncos game I would have gladly delivered the pink slip.

[shally]

you're telling me. I don't hate the guy but I did at times last year. After the Broncos game I would have gladly delivered the pink slip.


like sam shade.. a nice person who became a defensive liability.. time to move on

[Redblood]

I really believe the OLB scenario will play out thusly:

We will draft an OLB with our first pick, whether a trade up or not. This OLB will battle with Clemons for the starting Will position next to Lemar Marshall and Marcus Washington.

Holdman will not be resigned. I think Dale Lindsey is interested but if GW wanted him, he would be here now. There are no cap issues or roster limitations, and he should be willing to play for vet minimum so there is no risk in cutting him and causing a cap hit. This off season we signed Sykes and resigned Campbell and Clemons. If we had interest in him he would be here.

Clemons will win the battle at OLB and our rookie will be the main backup to him and Washington and see action in our 3-4 sets. Campbell will be the backup for Marshall and Sykes and McCune and any low round draft picks will battle for the last couple of LBer spots on the roster.


CNYSkinFan! Voice of consistency!

The NFL Draft scheduled for next week might save your skin. We will be watching! :)

[CNYSkinFan]

CNYSkinFan! Voice of consistency!

The NFL Draft scheduled for next week might save your skin. We will be watching! :)
lol...yeah got that whole Holdman thing wrong....but in a way I ddi predict if he was resigned it would be before the draft....

Still I think he sucks I hate the signing.

[Redblood]

lol...yeah got that whole Holdman thing wrong....but in a way I ddi predict if he was resigned it would be before the draft....

Still I think he sucks I hate the signing.


And what about your unrequited love for the TE last year? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

[CNYSkinFan]

I was right about that....look at that San Diego game and see if I wasn't.

I wanted us to upgrade at TE and this year we finally did.

Campbell may prove me ultimately wrong on that (I thought Ramsey was our guy but at that time most did). But Heath Miller was a stud last year you gotta admit. All upside there.

[finnspidey]

Why do we need a pass catching TE. I love Cooley in the H-Back ,I have know idea why we are changing the scheme with Fuaria(I not used to the spelling yet). But I'm from MA and if the Pats thought Christian(not gonna get me twice) so good why did they draft or pick up a FA TE every year he was there.

[CNYSkinFan]

ok I am not going into that whole h-back versus TE debate again. No offense but I spent all last season on that and to be quite honest I don't know enough of what Saunders is going to do with the H-back role this off season to even bother debating it.

It is very likely THIS year that Sellers will start at full back and Cooley at TE and just as likely that Cooley is still playing the traditional h-back role and an unnamed starter is at Te (Fauria is probably the guy right now but look at Robert Johnson) and they are calling Cooley a TE for pro-bowl voting.

[finnspidey]

I know I'm hopping on this site late but how Cooley didn't make it last year was a joke. And I guess it couldn't hurt to have options at the TE,H-Back, and Fb positions. But I just wish we would concern ourselves with the D-Fence in whats left of the off-season.

[ConradCountry]

Na'il Diggs {Packers}

Nick Gieson {Giants}

Tommey Polley {Rams}

Saleem Rasheed {49ers}

I personally like Rasheed because he could be brought in cheap and has great speed.

[danny's stogie]

I want Lavar back, because seriously, if he signs with the Giants the Skins will never win another game again. Ever.


Diggs signed with the Packers today.

Cato June is still available. He's the only one I have any interest in.

[redskin_rich]

Cato June is still available. He's the only one I have any interest in.
Wasn't he tendered though?

Regardless, there are no FA's coming in at LB, it's over. We re-signed Holdman to be the vet insurance and we might draft another that could possibly be in the competition for the one and only starting position that is up for grabs this coming season.

[danny's stogie]

Wasn't he tendered though?

Regardless, there are no FA's coming in at LB, it's over. We re-signed Holdman to be the vet insurance and we might draft another that could possibly be in the competition for the one and only starting position that is up for grabs this coming season.

Yes, I forgot about that. But hey, when has it stopped the Skins before? :rolleyes:

[akhhorus]

I want Lavar back, because seriously, if he signs with the Giants the Skins will never win another game again. Ever.

Surely you jest. If he signs with the Giants, it just means the Giants will get more offsides calls and Cooley's stats will go up.

[danny's stogie]

Surely you jest. If he signs with the Giants, it just means the Giants will get more offsides calls and Cooley's stats will go up.

What? You are joining me at the bring Lavar back vigil that someone is trying to organize on ExtremeSkins?

[Skinz4lyfe]

Any chance of the Redskins bringing in a FA basically went out the door when we re-signed Holdman. I sincerely hope we pick up somebody else because I don't wanna see Holdman starting for us again. If he does he better improve because he was a revolving door at LB.

[LATrueRedskin]

I highly doubt we will be looking for another Linebacker via FA. We're definately pushing all of our efforts towards the draft right now. I'd like to see us draft a backer with our first pick. We have the possibility to get a very, very good player.

[redwolf1218]

I want Lavar back, because seriously, if he signs with the Giants the Skins will never win another game again. Ever.


Diggs signed with the Packers today.

Cato June is still available. He's the only one I have any interest in.
he's fat and slow and his knee might be worse than anyone thought. he might not pass the physical. his agents want "3-time probowler" money, which he is no longer worth. he might be okay in a few years though.

[shally]

I want Lavar back, because seriously, if he signs with the Giants the Skins will never win another game again. Ever.


Diggs signed with the Packers today.

Cato June is still available. He's the only one I have any interest in.


june might be a good signing.. he is very fast and athletic...but i do not think we are signing any more vets... rookies only from here on out

[IowaSkinsFan]

Threads merged.

[chrisbcbu]

Isnt Cato June a RFA? If so we may not have the compensation if we sign him.

[shally]

Isnt Cato June a RFA? If so we may not have the compensation if we sign him.

yes... he is a RFA.. came into the league as a 6th rounder, but i do not know what the tender offer was, so i am not sure of the compensation in pick that would be required.. still, when has that ever stopped the skins before? with the jets we had to acquire a draft pick one time for one of the RFA's we signed and we were able to do so..

that is not the issue, unless he would require a first day pick-- but i think we are finished signing vets at linebacker..

[redskin_rich]

Diggs signed with the Packers today.


Correction, Diggs signed with Carolina.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2416062

[CNYSkinFan]

yes... he is a RFA.. came into the league as a 6th rounder, but i do not know what the tender offer was, so i am not sure of the compensation in pick that would be required.. still, when has that ever stopped the skins before? with the jets we had to acquire a draft pick one time for one of the RFA's we signed and we were able to do so..

that is not the issue, unless he would require a first day pick-- but i think we are finished signing vets at linebacker..

Cato was offered a mid range tender meaning the signing team must give up a first round pick (much like we did with Dock).

I guess if we wanted to we could sign him and give up our 2nd this year and 1st next year and that would be acceptable to Indy...maybe.

We don't have the cap space for his contract and Brandon LLoyds soon to come contract extension.

[akhhorus]

he's fat and slow and his knee might be worse than anyone thought. he might not pass the physical. his agents want "3-time probowler" money, which he is no longer worth. he might be okay in a few years though.

According to PFT, Lavar might need microfracture surgery since there's no cartilage in his repaired knee. If thats true, he won't be ready to play for anyone until 2007.

[shally]

According to PFT, Lavar might need microfracture surgery since there's no cartilage in his repaired knee. If thats true, he won't be ready to play for anyone until 2007.


now, THAT is starting to make some sense....

foster came back from that surgery.. courtney brown did as well... but some guys do not come back that well. davis has not been the same player since he had his M-F procedure..

you are correct, that it takes longer to come back because you cannot go right back onthe knee or you risk tearing it up.. why someone would sign him now if he is looking at that procedure is beyond me. he well might end up on the PUP list and miss the first 6 games or more of the up coming season. no way you pay a player like that peterson type of money...

[I Like the Cowgirls]

i think that the redskins should stick with lamar marshall and then maybe use the second rounder for a DE

[OCSkinzFan]

What? You are joining me at the bring Lavar back vigil that someone is trying to organize on ExtremeSkins?
It's just as likely to bring back Monty Coleman. He was better anyway.

[Keino]

I was right about that....look at that San Diego game and see if I wasn't.

I wanted us to upgrade at TE and this year we finally did.

Campbell may prove me ultimately wrong on that (I thought Ramsey was our guy but at that time most did). But Heath Miller was a stud last year you gotta admit. All upside there.


Wait, you are going to point to one game and claim vindication?

Doesn't that ignore the big plays made from the TE in the stretch of 5 straight wins to get into the playoffs?

[danny's stogie]

Correction, Diggs signed with Carolina.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2416062

Yeah, he came from the Packers, my bad.

I'm on a roll with mistakes in this thread. First June's tender now this, my thoughts are elsewhere in the offseaon.

[redskin_rich]

Yeah, he came from the Packers, my bad.

I'm on a roll with mistakes in this thread. First June's tender now this, my thoughts are elsewhere in the offseaon.
No worries bro, it happens to us all. Aren't you getting ready for a move back east and a Euro trip? That would be enough to make offseason football talk hard to focus on for anybody.