McIntosh to sit and learn?

[Dolla Bill]

Seems he's 3rd on the depth chart already.

Per KFFL:

Redskins | McIntosh to sit and learn
Thu, 4 May 2006 12:47:54 -0700

Gary Fitzgerald, of Redskins.com, reports Washington Redskins second-round draft pick LB Rocky McIntosh is unlikely to enter the season as the starter. McIntosh currently sits behind LBs Warrick Holdman and Chris Clemons on the depth chart. In addition, assistant head coach Gregg Williams doesn't usually like to start rookie defensive players right off the bat. It is likely McIntosh will sit the bench until the staff feels he is ready.

[Santheb]

Warrick Holdman makes me cry :banghead:

[RichardBradley]

Holdman will play his way out of the lineup.

[Biggie]

Warrick Holdman makes me cry :banghead:

Warrick Holdman is the next Mark Brunell. Except he won't stop sucking.

[redskin_rich]

Sean Taylor didn't start at first, do you expect any other rookie to?

No worries, if and when he is ready, he will start. This was one of my reasons for not liking the cost of getting him but as long as he turns into a good player, I won't complain.

[techskinsfan]

Sean Taylor didn't start at first, do you expect any other rookie to?

No worries, if and when he is ready, he will start. This was one of my reasons for not liking the cost of getting him but as long as he turns into a good player, I won't complain.
exactly...rodgers didnt really work in heavily til the san diego game...no surprise

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Taylor..Rogers..McIntosh...I sense a pattern there...

[The Skinsinator]

Taylor..Rogers..McIntosh...I sense a pattern there...Bingo. We have a winner folks. McIntosh wasn't as highly regarded as Rogers or Taylor so I highly doubt he would've started. Can't wait to see what he can do though. His athleticism is unreal.

[whitskins]

I want this guy to play sooner rather than later. His smarts are supposed to be one of his biggest attributes, and if he is athleticly gifted as many say then he shouldn't have a hard time out performing the guys in front of him.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Same as Rogers and Harris.... Holdman/Clemons will likely start and midway through the season Rocky will take over.... for good... and for a decade (hopefully)

[HAWGZHEAD]

I don't think he will come in as the starter, but it is a little early for faith in depth charts IMO.

[Campbell2Moss13]

I do not think he will be sitting for very long. I am going to guess maybe three games at the most. Because Holdman is :weak:

[Red Bear]

yeah i never expected him to start right away, and if he could that would be nice. i think i said in another thread he could be starting by week 5, unless holdman or clemons plays very well then you would have to stick with one of them...

[redwolf1218]

unless he learns everything really fast, there's no reason to throw him to the wolves. on the other hand, he's supposedly smart and he went to the same highschool and of course college as Taylor so if they have remained friends and Taylor helps his progression he should have the inside track on the learning curve.

[smoot]

i love that greg does the same things with every player drafted that most teams do with their franchise quarterbacks. i honestly believe that it makes them better in the long run.

that being said, McIntosh seems ominously similar to Marcus Washington to me. dont ask me why, just a feeling

[Red Bear]

not to throw the thread of subject but didnt buck ortega also go to high school with taylor? i thought i read that somewhere...

..and lets not compare him to marcus washington just yet, marcus plays with a great passion for the game and shows it, probably the best signing we've made in years. a true leader and motivator, other guys have to look up to him, if theyre not they should be. im enamored with marcus washington. i remember seeing him in a game with the colts and seeing how well he played that game in particular and was thinking he could be a great redskin but also thinking that it would probably never happen. next thing i know he's a free agent and we signed him. and i had never even heard of him before that one colts game i happened to watch

[redwolf1218]

not to throw the thread of subject but didnt buck ortega also go to high school with taylor? i thought i read that somewhere...
you're right, he is the one that went to highschool with Taylor, i got him mixed up with Rocky.

[redwolf1218]

i love that greg does the same things with every player drafted that most teams do with their franchise quarterbacks. i honestly believe that it makes them better in the long run.

that being said, McIntosh seems ominously similar to Marcus Washington to me. dont ask me why, just a feeling
he seems very similar to me too. those 2 guys will make great bookends on either side of Marshall. actually Clemons is similar too. they are all tall and athletic on the outside, except for Holdman.

[RedskinsVision]

If Holdman makes 11 whopping solo tackles in his first 7 starts this year as he did last season, then I expect Rocky to be the starter sooner rather than later. Maybe after 4 or 5 games.

[IowaSkinsFan]

If anyone should be #1 on the depth chart it should be Clemons.

[PA Skins Girl]

Go to Redskins.com and click on depth chart. It will tell you there is no depth chart in the off season.

[skins111111]

I don't look at it like- Is he good enough to start the season.
BUT is he good enough to be the starter by the end of the season (or middle, at least by the playoffs)

[bgforever]

Usual stuff. It works better this way. 2007 should present itself, like 2005 did for Sean Taylor.

[smoot]

..and lets not compare him to marcus washington just yet
i dont think anybody is comparing the two, they just seem to be very similar players

i know that kind of sounds like a contradiction but im not sure how else to word it. maybe when the effects of all this medicine wears off ill be back to my normal vocabulary and can phrase it better

[the real moss89]

If his athleticism and intelligence is as good as people say it is then i expect to see him starting around midseason. Remember he still has training camp and preseason to move up the depth chart.

[redwolf1218]

we have to remember with 4 preseason games, rookies have played their entire college season by game 6, with 10 games to go, plus post season.

[GolfFreak]

Sean Taylor was the #5 pick and he didn't start ... no worries.

[becky]

If anyone should be #1 on the depth chart it should be Clemons.

I completely agree. Hopefully Rocky will become a great contributor for us, but for now I'd like to see Clemons at #1 and Rocky and Warrick battle it out for #2. But.. it's only May.

[silverspring]

That is alright i think clemons will get a chance to start and rocky will rotate in. I really can't conceive that holdman will play much of a role other then backup, i assume he is an insurance policy. Holdman still might not even make the team, i hope...

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

Taylor..Rogers..McIntosh...I sense a pattern there...
yeah. im not surprised at all by the news. rocky needs to earn his job and im sure he was told that day one.

[LATrueRedskin]

Clemons better be able to handle the position.

[skinfan43]

i love that greg does the same things with every player drafted that most teams do with their franchise quarterbacks. i honestly believe that it makes them better in the long run.

that being said, McIntosh seems ominously similar to Marcus Washington to me. dont ask me why, just a feeling
Smoot, your sig is just so beautiful.
I was is Spartanburg, SC w/my now-ex-girlfriend watching that game vs. Philly at a "Southern" bar. When that entire play w/McNabb trying to embarass us happened just before the half, I jumped off of my barstool and shouted at the top of my lungs, TO MAKE US LOOK STUPID?!
I was ejected from the drinking establishment.
And laughed every step of the way out.;)

(McIntosh may start, we have to wait for camp to tell the story first.)

[DoGood]

Even though I haven't seen him play yet, I would assume that he could probably out perform both Holdman and Clemons for the position.

[vabeach_skinsfan]

GW knows what he's doing. He did the same thing with Carlos Rogers last year.

[CNYSkinFan]

He should be third on the depth chart and sitting. HGe has not signed a contract, not taken one practice rep, not learned one play, not played one down for the Redskins.

If he is third come opening day then there is a problem and we need to schedule a trip for Lindsey and McIntosh to Vermont.

[redwolf1218]

i hope McCune can be in the mix as well, here is a good article about him:

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=16968

"I want to make sure I know the defense inside and out. I have to be ready mentally to go out on the field and play. I have to know where to be lined up. I also want to know the defense so well that I can get other guys lined up. That's what Lemar Marshall and Marcus Washington can do."

"Last year, I was predominantly learning the middle linebacker, but this year I've been learning the weak-side spot," he said. "I'm just going to do the best that I can, no matter where I'm lined up. I'm watching film every day and looking at both positions, watching what they're doing.

[smoak]

I am really pulling for McCune to make this team and contribute. Man we have a very impressive collection of special players and interesting characters. :)

[shally]

Seems he's 3rd on the depth chart already.

Per KFFL:

and that's exactly how it should play out.. let him earn his way to the top of the heap..

[shally]

I am really pulling for McCune to make this team and contribute. Man we have a very impressive collection of special players and interesting characters. :)

the competition for linebacker positions on the team is going to be fierce.. add campbell and sykes into the mix and there is a lot of quality depth everywhere

[SpicyMcHaggis]

the competition for linebacker positions on the team is going to be fierce.. add campbell and sykes into the mix and there is a lot of quality depth everywhere
Great! The more the better!!

[dj_stouty]

and that's exactly how it should play out.. let him earn his way to the top of the heap..

Exactly. GW has been successful for many reasons...one of those reasons is the fact that he doesn't throw rookies into the fire immediately; even when he drafted the best defender in the '04 draft. (Taylor)

He has been doing this for a while. Nate Clements didn't start the season opener for GW in his first year as HC in Buffalo...and that was his first draft choice as a HC.

[shally]

Exactly. GW has been successful for many reasons...one of those reasons is the fact that he doesn't throw rookies into the fire immediately; even when he drafted the best defender in the '04 draft. (Taylor)

He has been doing this for a while. Nate Clements didn't start the season opener for GW in his first year as HC in Buffalo...and that was his first draft choice as a HC.

agreed.. and rogers didn't start until the san diego game last year as i recall.

plus, it sends a real bad message to the vets if they are replaced without the rookie even seeing the field.. very bad for team chemistry

[redwolf1218]

Exactly. GW has been successful for many reasons...one of those reasons is the fact that he doesn't throw rookies into the fire immediately; even when he drafted the best defender in the '04 draft. (Taylor)

He has been doing this for a while. Nate Clements didn't start the season opener for GW in his first year as HC in Buffalo...and that was his first draft choice as a HC.
it seemed like he almost went out of way to bring Taylor in slowly, like he was proving a point, because there was such a difference with Taylor in there instead of Andre Lott. i think the difference will be noticeable like that when Rocky gets in, if Holdman or Clemons is starting at the beginning.

[dj_stouty]

it seemed like he almost went out of way to bring Taylor in slowly, like he was proving a point, because there was such a difference with Taylor in there instead of Andre Lott. i think the difference will be noticeable like that when Rocky gets in, if Holdman or Clemons is starting at the beginning.

Correct. GW will probably bring along Rocky slowly...or possibly even slower than Taylor. Rocky is supposedly very intelligent, so that will go in his favor...however I doubt he is anywhere close to being an upgrade to Holdman at present moment. It takes time. I believe Holdman is on a 1 year extension, which makes me believe he will start most or even all of this year and bring Rocky along slowly to be the starter next year.

This is all fine by me. GW knows what he is doing, and after the way the team has improved over the past two years, I find it very hard to nitpick on any decision GW or Gibbs makes anymore. (And I hope to say the exact same thing of Saunders in one year's time)

[Hr fan]

I don't look at it like- Is he good enough to start the season.
BUT is he good enough to be the starter by the end of the season (or middle, at least by the playoffs)

Through Gibbs 1 and now in Gibbs 2 rookies don't start. I think adaptation to life with money (most have not had any in their past), reliance on maturity rather than constant supervision personally, learning the little things (did anyone else notice how many players drafted/signed by the Redskins are reluctant workout warriors, including Lutui, Simon (arrogance), Montgomery, Havner, the Oklahoma CB, etc.), and adjusting to NFL team concepts (more reliance on role than ability, more reliance on intelligence/knowledge of the game than triangle numbers) plus the stress of learning to play at an entirely different speed/intensity level means egos can be shattered by starting or being counted on to contribute before the player has matured personally. Gibbs never sacrifices the person to need, and winds up with many unheralded contributors. He waits until the player is ready on all levels, not just physically.

[DoGood]

Correct. GW will probably bring along Rocky slowly...or possibly even slower than Taylor. Rocky is supposedly very intelligent, so that will go in his favor...however I doubt he is anywhere close to being an upgrade to Holdman at present moment. It takes time. I believe Holdman is on a 1 year extension, which makes me believe he will start most or even all of this year and bring Rocky along slowly to be the starter next year.

I think we actually have better options at WLB than Holdman if you exclude Rocky. I think both Khary Campbell and Chris Clemons could make some noise and push for the starting spot. McCune has an uphill climb. I don't know much about Sykes. The only thing that Holdman has going for him is his experience.

[becky]

I think we actually have better options at WLB than Holdman if you exclude Rocky. I think both Khary Campbell and Chris Clemons could make some noise and push for the starting spot. McCune has an uphill climb. I don't know much about Sykes. The only thing that Holdman has going for him is his experience.

I know a lot of people are anti-Holdman, but this may turn out to be a big factor. GW knows what he's doing.. I say let the best player win.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

this sounds right. remember GW sat taylor behind Lott before Lott got hurt and never made it back. It has to do with paying your dues.

[meloveskinslongtime]

I think he will be in a few packages to get his feet wet first. maybe a situational player for the first few games but will bust into the starting lineup 4-5 games into the season.

[shally]

I think he will be in a few packages to get his feet wet first. maybe a situational player for the first few games but will bust into the starting lineup 4-5 games into the season.

look for him on nearly every coverage team to begin with.. after that, packages where he has a clearly defined mission

[bgforever]

Clemons better be able to handle the position.


This is MY greater concern. Clemons, has shown that a converted Safety to LB can work, but for some, as in his case, situational seems best. If he can fool us and give us the kind of output Marshall does in the middlen, then more power to him. If he can't it won't be long before the phasing in of who is BEST suited for the spot, is done. I am inclined to believe that what hurst Clemons, is the lack of playing time to even ever have it to show. He must compete with Holdman and Rocky, but losing to Rocky doesn't mean losing the actual STARTING position, but you can bet, he'd overwhelm by the middle of the season.

If Rocky needs more time, then it was expected. God, talk about a win-win situation for coach Gregg Williams and Dale Lindsey ! :)

[redwolf1218]

Clemons or Holdman will be okay while waiting for Rocky to start, probably better than Walt Harris was while waiting for Rogers, and better than that guy who started before Sean Taylor.

[shally]

Clemons or Holdman will be okay while waiting for Rocky to start, probably better than Walt Harris was while waiting for Rogers, and better than that guy who started before Sean Taylor.

i think that clemons is going to surprise a lot of people...after his third year he was felt to be a fine pro prospect, but advised to remain at georgia for his senior year... he has the size and athleticism..the question willbe whether he has the head for williams defense

[redwolf1218]

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=17007

quote from Rocky:

"They were all nice to me at the beginning, but now they're starting to get a little bit tougher," McIntosh said, smiling. "They're all a little bit harder on you now. They want to see how much you can take and how much you can put out."

Said Lindsey: "[On Friday], Rocky showed flashes of the talent that we expected from him when we drafted him."

[shally]

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=17007

quote from Rocky:

"They were all nice to me at the beginning, but now they're starting to get a little bit tougher," McIntosh said, smiling. "They're all a little bit harder on you now. They want to see how much you can take and how much you can put out."

Said Lindsey: "[On Friday], Rocky showed flashes of the talent that we expected from him when we drafted him."

just wait until the contact starts....

[redwolf1218]

i think that clemons is going to surprise a lot of people...after his third year he was felt to be a fine pro prospect, but advised to remain at georgia for his senior year... he has the size and athleticism..the question willbe whether he has the head for williams defense
i think he should have the head for it now after the year he's got in Williams' system. they could rotate a few guys in and out for certain matchups and situations, like pass rushing or coverage or run-stopping, and keep everyone fresh.

[meloveskinslongtime]

i think he should have the head for it now after the year he's got in Williams' system. they could rotate a few guys in and out for certain matchups and situations, like pass rushing or coverage or run-stopping, and keep everyone fresh.

i love how our system has people come in for different things. People dont really know what to expect when different groups of people come in. HOwever, the one that scares me is a team like the colts. Those guys are really annoying because they dont allow teams to sub players in. this type of game will be annoying because we wont be able to get our rotation going. Meaning whoever is at WLB is gonna have to make sure they can do all the things that they are asked for cuz they may not have any back up come in. thoughts anybody?

[SpicyMcHaggis]

i love how our system has people come in for different things. People dont really know what to expect when different groups of people come in. HOwever, the one that scares me is a team like the colts. Those guys are really annoying because they dont allow teams to sub players in. this type of game will be annoying because we wont be able to get our rotation going. Meaning whoever is at WLB is gonna have to make sure they can do all the things that they are asked for cuz they may not have any back up come in. thoughts anybody?
Well we currently have extremely versatile players on the defense, especially at the LB position..Marshall has played a whole season at MLB and a whole season at OLB..McIntosh, at least according to Gibbs, can play inside and out, and Washington is a 3-down player.
And regarding the Colts specifically, I think we match up pretty well because the way to beat them is with an extremely aggressive defense, and a good pass rush from anywhere and everywhere..at least that's how the Steelers beat them this year in the playoffs..

[redskin_rich]

i love how our system has people come in for different things. People dont really know what to expect when different groups of people come in. HOwever, the one that scares me is a team like the colts. Those guys are really annoying because they dont allow teams to sub players in. this type of game will be annoying because we wont be able to get our rotation going. Meaning whoever is at WLB is gonna have to make sure they can do all the things that they are asked for cuz they may not have any back up come in. thoughts anybody?
Since the Colts are not much of a running team and even less of a threat, now that Edge is gone, the Skins would probably use the Nickle as their base defense in that game. On 3rd and very long, they would shuttle out their Dime package, regardless of what the Colts did. Pretty simple really, as the Colts are pretty one-dimensional, albeit very dangerous at that one dimension.

[shally]

Since the Colts are not much of a running team and even less of a threat, now that Edge is gone, the Skins would probably use the Nickle as their base defense in that game. On 3rd and very long, they would shuttle out their Dime package, regardless of what the Colts did. Pretty simple really, as the Colts are pretty one-dimensional, albeit very dangerous at that one dimension.

both pitts and new england have shown the way to beat the colts.... go after manning- HARD.
if you sit back in a zone manning will simply kill you. there is no defense he cannot pick apart if you give him time. on the other hand if he is running for his life or constantly has a man in his face he will put the ball in the hands of the safety. he is not that mobile although he can slide around. the key is bringing the rush from angles he cannot predict. that is something that williams does really well

[redwolf1218]

Well we currently have extremely versatile players on the defense, especially at the LB position..Marshall has played a whole season at MLB and a whole season at OLB..McIntosh, at least according to Gibbs, can play inside and out, and Washington is a 3-down player.
And regarding the Colts specifically, I think we match up pretty well because the way to beat them is with an extremely aggressive defense, and a good pass rush from anywhere and everywhere..at least that's how the Steelers beat them this year in the playoffs..
i think that is the blue print right there, unless the Colts can figure out an adjustment to counter that style of D. not ever team is capable of doing what the Steelers did in that game but our D probably is one of the ones that can.

[redskin_rich]

both pitts and new england have shown the way to beat the colts.... go after manning- HARD.
if you sit back in a zone manning will simply kill you. there is no defense he cannot pick apart if you give him time. on the other hand if he is running for his life or constantly has a man in his face he will put the ball in the hands of the safety. he is not that mobile although he can slide around. the key is bringing the rush from angles he cannot predict. that is something that williams does really well
I agree. I was answering a post about formation and personnel, moreso than execution.

[shally]

I agree. I was answering a post about formation and personnel, moreso than execution.

i remember 1 year we played them and we had a tiny corner, mcmillan, who was sent on a blitz. it was hilarious watching him trying to bring down manning. it looked like a little kid trying to climb up a tree trunk. he might have actually gotten a sack, i am not certain, but it was hilarious to watch mannings reaction

[Dept_of_Defense]

You guys didn't expect Rocky to just come in and win everybody over that easily did ya? Of course Rocky's going to be listed as 3rd on the depth chart. Sean Taylor didn't even start the season and his preseason was dominating. He'll be starting by Week 8.

[Red Bear]

a 3-4 with lots of pass rush and good man to man coverage is the way to beat the colts

[whistleandthumb]

It's very keeping with this coaching staff's strategy that Rocky would be 3rd on the depth chart right off the bat. However, he's going to have all of TC and the preseason games to show that he's capable of starting, so I'd expect to see him start games sooner than later. Even if he's not starting, like what ST went through, he'll still see significant playing time early.

[danny's stogie]

a 3-4 with lots of pass rush and good man to man coverage is the way to beat the colts

I don't think it's exclusive to 3-4 teams, it just takes a good pass rush in general. The Jaguars always do fine against the Colts and they run a 4-3 and get the majority of their pressure from the interior. The Texans on the other hand have toyed with a 3-4 the past few years and they always get smoked by the Colts.

As for the thread topic: I don't think there is any question that no matter how ready Rocky is to start he is going to come off the bench for the first few games. As was pointed out before, ST, Rogers, there's a trend. It's about building a culture of hard work brings success and part of that is making rookies, no matter how good they are, work their way into the lineup.

[meloveskinslongtime]

Since the Colts are not much of a running team and even less of a threat, now that Edge is gone, the Skins would probably use the Nickle as their base defense in that game. On 3rd and very long, they would shuttle out their Dime package, regardless of what the Colts did. Pretty simple really, as the Colts are pretty one-dimensional, albeit very dangerous at that one dimension.


good stuff, i felt like our blitz schemes vs. manning's arm was gonna be one hell of a game to watch

[Hr fan]

Holdman will play his way out of the lineup.

Depth charts always show a vet before a rookie. Given the 'Skins philosophy about not starting rookies to acclimate them and avoid confidence problems, I didn't expect McIntire to start in any event - no hole exists with a marginal player like existed for Tatupu of the Seahawks last year. I will be shocked if Holdman makes the roster. He was available with no takers, and can learn the expanded defense in camp. He will then become at-home catastrophe insurance at the position.

[Hr fan]

Same as Rogers and Harris.... Holdman/Clemons will likely start and midway through the season Rocky will take over.... for good... and for a decade (hopefully)

More thinking Clemons/McCune (proven tackler in the open field on special teams, plays more than one position, and has upside where Holdman has downside because of age). We tried for Holdman two years ago, and he went elsewhere for one year only on a multi-year contract. His starting last year is more a comment about Arrington's problems with GWs defense than an endorsement of Holdman. We have options this year that were not there last year.

[Hr fan]

not to throw the thread of subject but didnt buck ortega also go to high school with taylor? i thought i read that somewhere...

..and lets not compare him to marcus washington just yet, marcus plays with a great passion for the game and shows it, probably the best signing we've made in years. a true leader and motivator, other guys have to look up to him, if theyre not they should be. im enamored with marcus washington. i remember seeing him in a game with the colts and seeing how well he played that game in particular and was thinking he could be a great redskin but also thinking that it would probably never happen. next thing i know he's a free agent and we signed him. and i had never even heard of him before that one colts game i happened to watch

Amen!

[Hr fan]

Clemons better be able to handle the position.

If he can't expect Marshall to go SLB with Campbell/McCune in the middle.

[OCSkinzFan]

If he can't expect Marshall to go SLB with Campbell/McCune in the middle.
I don't think McCune has the head for the MLB. That's why hes learning weak side.

[OCSkinzFan]

If he can't expect Marshall to go SLB with Campbell/McCune in the middle.
I don't think McCune has the head for the MLB. That's why hes learning weak side in this year's camp.

[Fathead]

He should be third on the depth chart and sitting. HGe has not signed a contract, not taken one practice rep, not learned one play, not played one down for the Redskins.

If he is third come opening day then there is a problem and we need to schedule a trip for Lindsey and McIntosh to Vermont.


Exactly.