U. S.Supreme Court has now backed the "No-Knock" Rule!

[bgforever]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060615/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_police_searches

No more cat and mouse with complicated protectionism by law breakers and possible terrorists.

On the other hand, What if a group of people are abused by law enforcement with the warrant, who have the wrong house. Just a sweet "oh, I'm sorry", but that $5,000.00 in damage is your problem. (Current law protects law enforcement for erroneous searches and seizures, by stating it was a court ordered warrant).

What's your view?

[Spence]

The overwhelming majority of Americans would approve of that ruling. Until the cops do it to them.

[CNYSkinFan]

From my lay man's perspective I always thought they had to identify themselves to avoid the "I thought you were a burgler" defense of someone who would rather shoot a cop then get caught.

[VTBob]

I don't like this ruling one bit, sure before this case was ruled upon some bad people could get off, but at least the right of privacy within ones home was protected. Now the police can easily enter your home "erroneously" and still charge you if they find anything illegal...same kind of crap they can pull with searches around a recent crime scene, you could get booked for drug possession even though you had nothing to do with the crime for example...bah

[RedskinsDave]

I don't like this ruling one bit, sure before this case was ruled upon some bad people could get off, but at least the right of privacy within ones home was protected. Now the police can easily enter your home "erroneously" and still charge you if they find anything illegal...same kind of crap they can pull with searches around a recent crime scene, you could get booked for drug possession even though you had nothing to do with the crime for example...bah

Where'd you get that from? I don't see anything changing in illegal searches. The police still need a warrant and still need a correct one.

[swheeler]

From my lay man's perspective I always thought they had to identify themselves to avoid the "I thought you were a burgler" defense of someone who would rather shoot a cop then get caught.
That's a good point.

[bgforever]

That's a good point.

Good point from the other side of a barrel OR 2 barrels :)

NOTE* I wanted to add that there are a lot of things about to happen and a correction on my initial post. The correction is, the household has the right to sue in a Civil Rights Court, via U S Supreme courts dissenters argument, , according Justices' Kennedy's and Scalia's response. But beware that appeals or lawsuits will not guarantee a thing. Interesting read in this regard

2. The number of prisons will need to be increased in size and scope. We are going to witness an increase in "cyber" related criminals who will fall under new types of thresholds of the law, some international.

3. The number of prosecutors of these increased cases, from illegal immigration to cyber sex related crimes, to monetary fund fraud via international electronic connections to spying and terrorism, will be needed.

This means NEW money from the nation's budgets, and appears to put more heat between law enforcement being able to do their job and procrastonators who control their budgets, using it as a tool to stall them and indirectly aid the criminals.

[VTBob]

Where'd you get that from? I don't see anything changing in illegal searches. The police still need a warrant and still need a correct one.

What I was referring to is the fact the police could enter your home erroneously with a valid warrant for the next door neighbor, for example, find drugs growing in your closet and still press charges because it was an error made in good faith. Without knocking they can do it even easier...

...the person in this example is still breaking the law, but their home privacy has been thrown out...

[RedskinsDave]

What I was referring to is the fact the police could enter your home erroneously with a valid warrant for the next door neighbor, for example, find drugs growing in your closet and still press charges because it was an error made in good faith. Without knocking they can do it even easier...

...the person in this example is still breaking the law, but their home privacy has been thrown out...

Actually that's never been legal. Unless things have changed lately that I am not aware of, the officers may not use anything, even things in plain sight, unless the warrant is for the proper address. They certainly cannot go into the wrong address and find something in a closet.

That said, if the cops find illegal activity even by mistake, I think they should be able to arrest the person.

Lastly, there are many situations where the FBI, SWAT, etc do not have to announce their presence long before this ruling and before the Patriot Act.

[akhhorus]

Actually that's never been legal. Unless things have changed lately that I am not aware of, the officers may not use anything, even things in plain sight, unless the warrant is for the proper address. They certainly cannot go into the wrong address and find something in a closet.

I think there's even been cases where the cops when to the right address, but the warrant was wrongly filled out, and the judge threw out the evidence because of that. Anyways, this is a seperate issue. I don't see why the cops should have to give them a warning before executing a warrant. What is this, The Life of Brian where the Romans knock on the door and the guy says: "C'mon, you haven't given us time to hide..."

[lakewinola]

I thought W made warrants meaningless?

[Spence]

I thought W made warrants meaningless?:lol1:

[PennSkinsFan]

I like the ruling. If they have an executable warrant, then to me it really does not matter whether they knock or enter. All that knocking and waiting does it allow time for escape or running. This SC has laid down some pretty awful decisions, but I do not label this with those.

[Ibleedburgundy]

I just don't like the thought of police busting people's doors down when they could have simply knocked and maybe the guy would come out peacefully. Fairfax PD recently used a swat team to arrest a guy who ran a gambling ring. Absolutely no history of violence with this guy. One of the officers was pointing his gun at the guy for no apparent reason after he came out peacefully. He's standing next to his car in his driveway and the gun went off and the guy died.

[RedskinsDave]

I just don't like the thought of police busting people's doors down when they could have simply knocked and maybe the guy would come out peacefully. Fairfax PD recently used a swat team to arrest a guy who ran a gambling ring. Absolutely no history of violence with this guy. One of the officers was pointing his gun at the guy for no apparent reason after he came out peacefully. He's standing next to his car in his driveway and the gun went off and the guy died.

I went to high school with the guy. While that instance was clearly overzealous police, it has nothing to do with this ruling. The stupid part of that instance (his name was Sal Culosi) was that Fairfax apparently uses SWAT teams to serve their warrants. Sal was taking bets. He was also an optometrist with no history of violence. I hope the county makes his family millionaires if nothing else.

[Ibleedburgundy]

I went to high school with the guy. While that instance was clearly overzealous police, it has nothing to do with this ruling. The stupid part of that instance (his name was Sal Culosi) was that Fairfax apparently uses SWAT teams to serve their warrants. Sal was taking bets. He was also an optometrist with no history of violence. I hope the county makes his family millionaires if nothing else.

Overzealous policing has everything to do with this ruling.

[lakewinola]

I hope the county makes his family millionaires if nothing else.

Why do you think his familiy is entitled to millions but not the family of someone who a doctor left a surgical instrument in and died as a result?

[RedskinsDave]

Why do you think his familiy is entitled to millions but not the family of someone who a doctor left a surgical instrument in and died as a result?

Huh?

[RedskinsDave]

Overzealous policing has everything to do with this ruling.

No, it does not. It allows police WITH A WARRANT to burst in without announcing themselves.

[Ibleedburgundy]

No, it does not. It allows police WITH A WARRANT to burst in without announcing themselves.

First of all, let me say this: :rolleyes:

Right, bursting in with a warrant in some cases would be overzealous. I guess I hope the supreme court would police the police because people with the responsibility of policing themselves have a long history of failing.

[bgforever]

First of all, let me say this: :rolleyes:

Right, bursting in with a warrant in some cases would be overzealous. I guess I hope the supreme court would police the police because people with the responsibility of policing themselves have a long history of failing.


I believe this is the understandable fear on all sides of the equation, no matter what background you come from and those who support the ruling will likely keep an eye on that, as they SHOULD.

Yet deep inside of me, I can't help help but see those intense moments, like after Hurricane Katrina, where a law enforcement official or should I say, officials - lose their cool and victimize others. Are we to say, we didn't think about the "snap" possibility of a couple of detectives in the dead of night in South Chicago or a dusty road in Idaho, serving the warrant and meeting someone TOTALLY unexpecting them at the door, with his firearm in hand, frightened kids in another room huged by a fearful wife.

They burst in, without warning, he has no idea who they are, as they FORGET to clearly identify themselves, plus NO siren was used or flashing lights outside as an indicator, that the husband is the target of a police matter. THEY OPEN FIRE, striking him several times, until the man is limp, lifeless, blood painting the walls.

The officers entered the wrong house (it was supposed to be next door), the real criminal heard the initial shots, took off in a pickup out back, from a neighbor's yard.

The family left is terrified, as the detectives are frozen in absolute shock of the annihilation of a former cop, who moved there, just 1 year ago.

Of course the larger percentage will win out, because when its National, the small amount of occurances won't matter to the statistician in Washington.
It matters to me when you kill a member of my family and offer me silly ass paper with dead men's faces, in the place of them.

[RedskinsDave]

First of all, let me say this: :rolleyes:

Right, bursting in with a warrant in some cases would be overzealous. I guess I hope the supreme court would police the police because people with the responsibility of policing themselves have a long history of failing.

Well that's a whole lotta nothin. Only in your world is going in with a search warrant overzealous. Contrary to popular yet ignorant liberal blather police in this country have far from failed us. The guilty have more rights here than any place on the planet. 99.9% of all police are honest hardworking people. I am sure you hold them in great disdain but, then again, you hold anyone who protects you in that regard.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Well that's a whole lotta nothin. Only in your world is going in with a search warrant overzealous. Contrary to popular yet ignorant liberal blather police in this country have far from failed us. The guilty have more rights here than any place on the planet. 99.9% of all police are honest hardworking people. I am sure you hold them in great disdain but, then again, you hold anyone who protects you in that regard.

:rolleyes: Hey kid, don't bother responding to me anymore. Everything in your post is flat wrong. I'm not going to hold your hand and walk you through it anymore.

[RedskinsDave]

You're worthless. Go away.

[Keino]

Contrary to popular yet ignorant liberal blather police in this country have far from failed us. The guilty have more rights here than any place on the planet. 99.9% of all police are honest hardworking people.


This is certainly a matter of perspective......on all points.

[Axegrinder]

KGB or on second thought,think about what the Marines are accused of doing in Iraq.
Accidents happen,but who pays?

The terrorists win again.
They can now vanish into thin air,just like our civil libirties have.