players who played for allen and gibbs

[bgforever]

Which MAJOR two players are a link to the present Redskins Head Coach Joe Gibbs for his 80-90's tenure and George Allen of the 70's, and both having at least Hall of Fame nominations?

Hint: They actually practiced against each other. A teary eyed moment.

[Wild Bore]

Which MAJOR two players are a link to the present Redskins Head Coach Joe Gibbs for his 80-90's tenure and George Allen of the 70's, and both having at least Hall of Fame nominations?

Hint: They actually practiced against each other. A teary eyed moment.I believe the following key players played for both Allen and Gibbs: Butz, Theisman, Riggins, Moseley, Murphy and Starke. There were probably more, but I would list these guys first. Pick two of them and call them MAJOR.

[redwolf1218]

I believe the following key players played for both Allen and Gibbs: Butz, Theisman, Riggins, Moseley, Murphy and Starke. There were probably more, but I would list these guys first. Pick two of them and call them MAJOR.
i guess out of that list Butz and Starke would have practiced against each other.

[garedskin]

Which MAJOR two players are a link to the present Redskins Head Coach Joe Gibbs for his 80-90's tenure and George Allen of the 70's, and both having at least Hall of Fame nominations?

Hint: They actually practiced against each other. A teary eyed moment.
Butz and Thiesmann are my guess.:Peace:

[bgforever]

Butz and Thiesmann are my guess.:Peace:

I think that was overlooked was "Hall of Fame" nomination.

Ken Houston, now in the Hall of Fame, was in his last year as a Redskins player, with a legacy for the NEW type of Safety, in 1980, welcoming a rookie WR from Syracuse, named Art Monk.

Monk would go on to catch 58 passes, for 797 yards, 13.7 avg and 3 TD's.

Houston would wrap up his season and retire, having set a torrid pace for TD's, Interceptions by a Safety, numerous highlight reels, tackles, passes defensed, for a whopping 12 All Star and Pro Bowls straight! (old AFL with Houston Oilers, and merged leagues later NFL.)

Theismann was done in 1985. Starke also was done BEFORE 1990, as well as Riggins, but Art Monk was there from 1980 - 1992, while Houston was with the Skins from 1973-1980, reaching the Pro Bowl from 1970 - 1979 all in a row.

[shally]

I think that was overlooked was "Hall of Fame" nomination.

Ken Houston, now in the Hall of Fame, was in his last year as a Redskins player, with a legacy for the NEW type of Safety, in 1980, welcoming a rookie WR from Syracuse, named Art Monk.

Monk would go on to catch 58 passes, for 797 yards, 13.7 avg and 3 TD's.

Houston would wrap his season and retire, having set a torrid pace for TD's, Interceptions by a Safety, numerous highlight reels, tackles, passes defensed, for a whopping 12 All Star and Pro Bowls straight! (old AFL with Houston Oilers, and merged leagues later NFL.)

thank you... that was a great trivia question.. it would be interesting to look at the 1980 roster and see exactly how many players did overlap the 2 regimes..

[bgforever]

thank you... that was a great trivia question.. it would be interesting to look at the 1980 roster and see exactly how many players did overlap the 2 regimes..

Here it is: (Courtesy of Rich Tandlers, "Redskins From A-Z" Vol I The Games, Walking Encyclopedia Publications, 2002)

1980 - Head Coach - Jack Pardee - Record 6-10 - Third in the NFC East
Honors: Mike Nelms ALL-NFL, Pro Bowl Lamar Parrish, ALL-NFL, Pro Bowl)

Gary Anderson, Coy Bacon, Jeff Bostic, Perry Brooks, Dave Butz, Rickey Claitt, Monte Coleman, Mike Connell, Fred Dean, Phil Dubois, Brad Dusek, Ike Forte, Bobby Hammond, Clarence Harmon, Kenny Harrison, Terry Hermeling, Dallas Hickman, Ken Houston, Wilbur Jackson, Joe Jones, Mike Kruczek, Bob Kuziel, Joe Lavender, Karl Lorch, John McDaniel, Zion Mickinney, Kim McQuilken, Rich Milot, Art Monk, Mark Moseley, Mark Murphy, Mike Nelms, Dan Nugent, Neil Olkweicz, Lamar Parrish, Dan Pfeiffer, Tony Peters, Grady Richardson, Ron Saul, Jerry Scanlan, Paul Smith, George Starke, Diron Talbert, Joe Theismann, Ricky Thompson, Ray Waddy, Rick "Doc" [/B[B]]Walker, Don Warren, Jeris White, Jeff Williams, Pete Wysocki

**John Riggins, sat out this year and rejoined the Redskins when Joe Gibbs became the Head Coach the following year in 1981.

**Players in Bold are members of the Redskins very first Superbowl victory team.

** Players in Burgundy are from the very First Redskins Superbowl appearance in 1973 ** Mark Murphy and George Starke appeared in BOTH the very first and the first victory Superbowl teams

[bgforever]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/redskins/longterm/1997/history/allart/dw1973a1.htm

[shally]

Here it is: (Courtesy of Rich Tandlers, "Redskins From A-Z" Vol I The Games, Walking Encyclopedia Publications, 2002)

1980 - Head Coach - Jack Pardee - Record 6-10 - Third in the NFC East
Honors: Mike Nelms ALL-NFL, Pro Bowl Lamar Parrish, ALL-NFL, Pro Bowl)

Gary Anderson, Coy Bacon, Jeff Bostic, Perry Brooks, Dave Butz, Rickey Claitt, Monte Coleman, Mike Connell, Fred Dean, Phil Dubois, Brad Dusek, Ike Forte, Bobby Hammond, Clarence Harmon, Kenny Harrison, Terry Hermeling, Dallas Hickman, Ken Houston, Wilbur Jackson, Joe Jones, Mike Kruczek, Bob Kuziel, Joe Lavender, Karl Lorch, John McDaniel, Zion Mickinney, Kim McQuilken, Rich Milot, Art Monk, Mark Moseley, Mark Murphy, Mike Nelms, Dan Nugent, Neil Olkweicz, Lamar Parrish, Dan Pfeiffer, Tony Peters, Grady Richardson, Ron Saul, Jerry Scanlan, Paul Smith, George Starke, Diron Talbert, Joe Theismann, Ricky Thompson, Ray Waddy, Rick "Doc" [/B[B]]Walker, Don Warren, Jeris White, Jeff Williams, Pete Wysocki

**John Riggins, sat out this year and rejoined the Redskins when Joe Gibbs became the Head Coach the following year in 1981.

**Players in Bold are members of the Redskins very first Superbowl victory team.

** Players in Burgundy are from the very First Redskins Superbowl appearance in 1973 ** Mark Murphy and George Starke appeared in BOTH the very first and the first victory Superbowl teams

i am going to post a related trivia question.. if the mods want to merge them it is okay with me.. thanks for stimulating a great thought question

[shally]

here is a poser for all you redskin fans.. with major props to bgforever who stimulated the thought process..

can you name the players who played for BOTH george allen and joe gibbs?

hint: i was able to find 7 of them

[Wild Bore]

Here it is: (Courtesy of Rich Tandlers, "Redskins From A-Z" Vol I The Games, Walking Encyclopedia Publications, 2002)

1980 - Head Coach - Jack Pardee - Record 6-10 - Third in the NFC East
Honors: Mike Nelms ALL-NFL, Pro Bowl Lamar Parrish, ALL-NFL, Pro Bowl)

Gary Anderson, Coy Bacon, Jeff Bostic, Perry Brooks, Dave Butz, Rickey Claitt, Monte Coleman, Mike Connell, Fred Dean, Phil Dubois, Brad Dusek, Ike Forte, Bobby Hammond, Clarence Harmon, Kenny Harrison, Terry Hermeling, Dallas Hickman, Ken Houston, Wilbur Jackson, Joe Jones, Mike Kruczek, Bob Kuziel, Joe Lavender, Karl Lorch, John McDaniel, Zion Mickinney, Kim McQuilken, Rich Milot, Art Monk, Mark Moseley, Mark Murphy, Mike Nelms, Dan Nugent, Neil Olkweicz, Lamar Parrish, Dan Pfeiffer, Tony Peters, Grady Richardson, Ron Saul, Jerry Scanlan, Paul Smith, George Starke, Diron Talbert, Joe Theismann, Ricky Thompson, Ray Waddy, Rick "Doc" [/B[B]]Walker, Don Warren, Jeris White, Jeff Williams, Pete Wysocki

**John Riggins, sat out this year and rejoined the Redskins when Joe Gibbs became the Head Coach the following year in 1981.

**Players in Bold are members of the Redskins very first Superbowl victory team.

** Players in Burgundy are from the very First Redskins Superbowl appearance in 1973 ** Mark Murphy and George Starke appeared in BOTH the very first and the first victory Superbowl teamsWhile the highlighted guys did play for Gibbs, many did not play for Allen; they came in under Pardee. Also, I don't think either Starke or Murphy were there for the first superbowl. I think Starke came the next year and Murphy a couple years later. I think Terry Hermeling played in the 1973 SB too.

[bgforever]

While the highlighted guys did play for Gibbs, many did not play for Allen; they came in under Pardee. Also, I don't think either Starke or Murphy were there for the first superbowl. I think Starke came the next year and Murphy a couple years later. I think Terry Herneling played in the 1973 SB too.


I think you wrong :)

BOTH Murphy and Starke are Clearly on the roster from the NFL Superbowl history and also in R. Tandler's book

Secondly, I am NOT saying highlighted guys PLAYED FOR BOTH COACHES. Your statement is void by the very beginning of the Roster. It shows Jack Pardee as HEAD COACH for 1980.

[Wild Bore]

I think you wrong :)

BOTH Murphy and Starke are Clearly on the roster from the NFL Superbowl history and also in R. Tandler's book

Secondly, I am NOT saying highlighted guys PLAYED FOR BOTH COACHES. Your statement is void by the very beginning of the Roster. It shows Jack Pardee as HEAD COACH for 1980.Tandler is wrong.

[bgforever]

Tandler is wrong.

Let's meet back here with a link to the factoid then, cool? :)

[Wild Bore]

I know Tandler's book says that. The roster is wrong. There are a lot of errors in his book. The best place to go is the official Redskins website if you don't believe me.

[bgforever]

Tandler is wrong.

Great Call Wild Bore, I stand corrected, Starke was with the Skins in '73, not 72 and Murphy didn't even sign with the Skins until 1977.

Tandler somehow had it redundant and I put my notes down as 1972, not 1973, for Starke.

My bad everyone.

Thanks again Wild Bore, but my main point all along was Houston's and Monk's outstanding careers, yet they did MEET and PLAY for a year on the same team in 1980.

[Wild Bore]

Six of them are: Riggins, Theisman, Butz, Murphy, Moseley, Starke. Standby on the 7th.

[shally]

While the highlighted guys did play for Gibbs, many did not play for Allen; they came in under Pardee. Also, I don't think either Starke or Murphy were there for the first superbowl. I think Starke came the next year and Murphy a couple years later. I think Terry Herneling played in the 1973 SB too.

i used the redskins official roster to look up the answer to my question.. and the issue is that, indeed, pardee was coach between them, so some guys came in under him and would be excluded. see my question, and i will post the answer later if nobody gets the magnificent 7....

have fun

[Wild Bore]

Brad Dusek?

[bgforever]

I know Tandler's book says that. The roster is wrong. There are a lot of errors in his book. The best place to go is the official Redskins website if you don't believe me.


That's true, the PDF is the joint! I didn't use them this time and should have.

so all those inconsistantcies in RTandler's book that I encountered, you are the ONLY one to keep me from looking like an a. Thanks! :lol1:

[Wild Bore]

I think Clarence Harmon played for both too.

[shally]

Brad Dusek?

correct on dusek.. shame on me for missing mosely, murphy and starke..
that will make the total now 10 !!

[Wild Bore]

Yeah, I think there may be a couple of more. I am not sure but I think Joe Lavendar, Karl Lorch, Dallas Hickman, and Ron Saul may have played for both. Anyone?

[bgforever]

correct on dusek.. shame on me for missing mosely, murphy and starke..
that will make the total now 10 !!


:lol1: It's fun to me, cause I learn something each time I do this!!!

When I was watching them during that time, I didn't even think about the DEPTH of the roster and mainly remembered the players that played the most or guys like a Herb Mulkey or Tony Peters who didn't stick around very long, but left an impression. Brad Dusek was one of the players like blue collar that LB position.

[Wild Bore]

That's true, the PDF is the joint! I didn't use them this time and should have.

so all those inconsistantcies in RTandler's book that I encountered, you are the ONLY one to keep me from looking like an a. Thanks! :lol1:
Go Skins!

[shally]

Yeah, I think there may be a couple of more. I am not sure but I think Joe Lavendar, Karl Lorch, Dallas Hickman, and Ron Saul may have played for both. Anyone?

correct.. you got them all.. saul 76-81

hickman 76-81

lorch 76-81

would have played for both.. i will have to look up lavender, but i do not think he was one of them

[shally]

:lol1: It's fun to me, cause I learn something each time I do this!!!

When I was watching them during that time, I didn't even think about the DEPTH of the roster and mainly remembered the players that played the most or guys like a Herb Mulkey or Tony Peters who didn't stick around very long, but left an impression. Brad Dusek was one of the players like blue collar that LB position.

actually, tony peters played for quite a while 79-82 (he was a pardee signing) and then 84 and 85 after his troubles

[Wild Bore]

Brad Dusek was one of the players like blue collar that LB position.Agree. I always thought Brad Dusek was a damn fine linebacker and very underrated; truth be told, in the mid 70's he was actually better than Hanburger, who was getting up in years then.

[bgforever]

Agree. I always thought Brad Dusek was a damn fine linebacker and very underrated; truth be told, in the mid 70's he was actually better than Hanburger, who was getting up in years then.

Speaking of the two wonder guys Hanburger/Houston (wonder how they played that well, that long :), They are BOTH in my avatar.


You know what's interesting? name the players from MARTY's years!

[shally]

I think Clarence Harmon played for both too.

good for you !!

harmon and lavender were also overlaps.. so that brings the total up to 12 now..

agreed that this stuff is fascinating to me because of the development in the roster. it is also fascinating because rosters change about 20-25 % ever year now and yet it means that a core group of 20% or so was present from 77 through 81.. that is pretty stable, i think..

[shally]

Speaking of the two wonder guys Hanburger/Houston (wonder how they played that well, that long :), They are BOTH in my avatar.


You know what's interesting? name the players from MARTY's years!

do you mean players who survived marty's boot camp and single year ... or players that marty actually added?

[Wild Bore]

agreed that this stuff is fascinating to me because of the development in the roster. it is also fascinating because rosters change about 20-25 % ever year now and yet it means that a core group of 20% or so was present from 77 through 81.. that is pretty stable, i think..You know what I really find interesting is the guys that came onto the team during the Pardee years, which also Beathard's first three years. If you look at the drafts and the FA pickups, you begin to see the beginning of the core that would ultimately win those Super Bowls.

Also, that 1979 team was a good team. In my 40 plus years as a Redskin fan, that 1979 Dallas game was the all time low point, that SOB Staubach. People say Riggins sat out 1980 in a contract dispute, but the disappointment from that game is what did it.

[bgforever]

good for you !!

harmon and lavender were also overlaps.. so that brings the total up to 12 now..

agreed that this stuff is fascinating to me because of the development in the roster. it is also fascinating because rosters change about 20-25 % ever year now and yet it means that a core group of 20% or so was present from 77 through 81.. that is pretty stable, i think..


It is exactly WHY the novelty of the first SUPERBOWL game is significant in actual HISTORY, as well as Sports History. It was a common overseas sight to see a picture of Riggins running that ball in the 4th QTR, when I was in Europe for 2 yrs.

That team was supposed to flop because the strike was supposed to take something away from players considered average or laughable from that the -5, start. Many folks were still thinking about the BEGINNING of the 1981 season, NOT the ending! That team beared so much history from Allen to Gibbs, but yet there is STILL one player that played for Lombardi, that played for Allen, yet played for Otto Graham. Len Haus - 4 Pro Bowl Center. That didn't get that attention of Jurgenson, Taylor, Gogalack, etc.

Before last week, and in some cases, still, the team is being looked at more for what it did in the first 8 games, instead of the last. Eerily similar almost.

I was - and Of course with 6 games left, I sold out to the team that they would win out and play in the playoffs.

yet the one constant is Joe Gibbs ability to take even the LESSER thought of players and make the contributors in a run. Oh God, he already did that last year! Betts, Rock, etc.!

[bgforever]

do you mean players who survived marty's boot camp and single year ... or players that marty actually added?


I mean on the Gibbs roster NOW.

[Wild Bore]

It is exactly WHY the novelty of the first SUPERBOWL game is significant in actual HISTORY, as well as Sports History. It was a common overseas sight to see a picture of Riggins running that ball in the 4th QTR, when I was in Europe for 2 yrs.

That team was supposed to flop because the strike was supposed to take something away from players considered average or laughable from that the -5, start. Many folks were still thinking about the BEGINNING of the 1981 season, NOT the ending! That team beared so much history from Allen to Gibbs, but yet there is STILL one player that played for Lombardi, that played for Allen, yet played for Otto Graham. Len Haus - 4 Pro Bowl Center.

Before last week, and in some cases, still, the team is being looked at more for what it did in the first 8 games, instead of the last. Eerily similar almost.

I wasAnd McPeak too before Graham!

[Keino]

Did Terry Metcalf play for both?

Edit: I answered my own question. No. he did not only a Skin in 81

[shally]

Speaking of the two wonder guys Hanburger/Houston (wonder how they played that well, that long :), They are BOTH in my avatar.


You know what's interesting? name the players from MARTY's years!

i was able to find 28 players that marty added in his one year (2001).. that is tremendous turnover.. only 1 ethan albright survives from that era..

if fact very few are still even in the nfl.. banks, barker, bauman, gardner, ohalete, ?leverette, pierce, rasby, rosenfels.. are still in the nfl as far as i know

[bgforever]

And McPeak too before Graham!

Yep, I also added that Hauss didnt' get the attention of Jurgy, Taylor, Go-Go, etc. yet was there in the Creamian Wars :)

[bgforever]

i was able to find 28 players that marty added in his one year (2001).. that is tremendous turnover.. only 1 ethan albright survives from that era..

if fact very few are still even in the nfl.. banks, barker, bauman, gardner, ohalete, ?leverette, pierce, rasby, rosenfels.. are still in the nfl as far as i know


Infreakincredible!

See I told you this stuff is good! Natural High and stimulates the brain cells!

[Wild Bore]

i was able to find 28 players that marty added in his one year (2001).. that is tremendous turnover.. only 1 ethan albright survives from that era..

if fact very few are still even in the nfl.. banks, barker, bauman, gardner, ohalete, ?leverette, pierce, rasby, rosenfels.. are still in the nfl as far as i know
Wow. With the exception of Pierce, even the ones still in the NFL suck. We were horrible. Tony Banks at quarterback, that's bad.

[shally]

And McPeak too before Graham!

hauss was a great center.. but he played in the silent era of offensive linemen..

[Wild Bore]

hauss was a great center.. but he played in the silent era of offensive linemen..
Hauss was a hoss. The real first HOG!

[shally]

Wow. With the exception of Pierce, even the ones still in the NFL suck. We were horrible. Tony Banks at quarterback, that's bad.

the sad thing is that we were in contention for the playoffs right up until the final games.. i believe that had marty switched to kent graham after the denver game, we would have made the playoffs that year...
banks was simply awfull... right up there with shuler, john friez, wuerffel,
matthews and some of the worst who have ever played in a redskin uni..

[bgforever]

Hauss was a hoss. The real first HOG!


Oh you beat me to it!!!!! :lol1:

[Wild Bore]

banks was simply awfull... right up there with shuler, john friez, wuerffel,matthews and some of the worst who have ever played in a redskin uni..Actually, thank God for Friez; otherwise, we would have had to play Shuler!:lol1:

[shally]

Oh you beat me to it!!!!! :lol1:

well, we had guys like wilbur and promuto in earlier eras.. terry hermeling.
paul laaveg..

but hauss was definitely the standard bearer for the o line

[shally]

Actually, thank God for Friez; otherwise, we would have had to play Shuler!:lol1:

we also had rich gannon around that time also (93/94).. give or take... never did much for us and i guess we never saw his potential..

[bgforever]

we also had rich gannon around that time also (93/94).. give or take... never did much for us and i guess we never saw his potential..


Which takes me to the Skins43 "Al Saunders" thread.

[garedskin]

[QUOTE=bgforever]I think that was overlooked was "Hall of Fame" nomination.

Not at all. Butz has been nominated in the past and Thiesmann was nominated yet again this past year.:Peace:

[Keino]

I know Tandler's book says that. The roster is wrong. There are a lot of errors in his book. The best place to go is the official Redskins website if you don't believe me.

Starke was definately on both Superbowl Teams.

From the Redskins Website:
Most memorable moments with the Redskins include playing as a rookie with the “Over the Hill Gang” and blocking for John Riggins on his touchdown run that sealed the Super Bowl win…He considers the Redskins to be a “part of my family”…

http://www.redskins.com/team/history-70.jsp Click on the player.

Murphy joined the team in 1977.

[Wild Bore]

Starke was definately on both Superbowl Teams.

From the Redskins Website:


http://www.redskins.com/team/history-70.jsp Click on the player.

Murphy joined the team in 1977.Starke played with the OTH gang, but not in 1972.

[redwolf1218]

so the answer was Monk and Kenny Houston? 2 of my all-time favorites. i grew up idolizing Kenny Houston, Joe Lavender and Larry Brown.

[garedskin]

Starke was drafted in 1971.He was however traded to KansasCity almost immediately and was cut by them later his rookie year.Dallas picked him up and ended up cutting him as well.Allen did pick him back up in1973 and groomed him for a year before he became a starter in 74.So Starke was not with the Redskins when they went to the superbowl in 1972.

However there was a guy who played in the 1972 superbowl and coached in all the rest of the superbowls the Redskins have played in.........want to take a shot?:Peace:

[garedskin]

so the answer was Monk and Kenny Houston? 2 of my all-time favorites. i grew up idolizing Kenny Houston, Joe Lavender and Larry Brown.

I liked Ken Houston and Coy Bacon.I might be wrong but Bacon is the last Redskin Defensive Lineman to lead the NFC in sacks.:Peace:

[garedskin]

QB Joe Thiesmann,RB John Riggins,RB Clarence Harmon,G Ron Saul,T George Starke,DT Dave Butz,DT Karl Lorch,DE Dallas Hickman,LB Brad Dusek,CB Joe Lavander,S Mark Murphy,and K Mark Moseley.

I came up with 12.:Peace:

[GoDannyBoy]

Thanks for the memories. I was young but I remember Larry Brown who would fight for every yard. He was one of my favorite Skins for a long time.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Threads on Gibbs and Allen players merged.

[Wild Bore]

However there was a guy who played in the 1972 superbowl and coached in all the rest of the superbowls the Redskins have played in.........want to take a shot?:Peace:
Charlie Taylor? I think Richie Pettibon did too.

[Keino]

Starke played with the OTH gang, but not in 1972.


Ahh You're right. For some reason I remembered that being a story for the 82 SB run.

[28Zcomeback]

because I know! He was on the taxi squad, and was the most talented offensive lineman receiving a Redskins paycheck.

If you doubt me, I've got some photos of George Starke at a 1972 charity event which he attended.

Don't ever get your information from these bozo "authors" who get their information from so-called "rosters".

Why do you think Starke became a starter SO quickly in 1973: it's because he had been learning the system for over two years!

That's right, he flew out to California with the rest of the team for the Super Bowl,too. Luckily, he did not get caught with Snowden!

[28Zcomeback]

Ricky Thompson (was in Redskins camp, summer 1977 and played very briefly with that team);

George Starke (was on the team in 1971 briefly and later on the 1972 taxi squad and counts because he went to Pasedena with the Super Bowl team);

Ron Saul (injured reserve, entire 1982 season, but a big Allen favorite, played 1976-1982);

Joe Theisman;

Mark Moseley;

Clarence Harmon;

John Riggins;

Dave Butz;

Dallas Hickman;

Karl Lorch (replaced by Mr. Dexter Manley in 1981);

Perry Brooks (was on the taxi squad in 1977, George's last year. Brooks could not beat out Talbert, Brundige, Butz to make the official roster, but he was groomed by George Allen!);

Brad Dusek (Brad retired during Gibbs' first training camp, summer of 1981; he was physically a wreck after years of breaking up wedges);

Joe Lavender

Mark Murphy

[shally]

Ricky Thompson (was in Redskins camp, summer 1977 and played very briefly with that team);

George Starke (was on the team in 1971 briefly and later on the 1972 taxi squad and counts because he went to Pasedena with the Super Bowl team);

Ron Saul (injured reserve, entire 1982 season, but a big Allen favorite, played 1976-1982);

Joe Theisman;

Mark Moseley;

Clarence Harmon;

John Riggins;

Dave Butz;

Karl Lorch (replaced by Mr. Dexter Manley in 1981);

Perry Brooks (was on the taxi squad in 1977, George's last year. Brooks could not beat out Talbert, Brundige, Butz to make the official roster, but he was groomed by George Allen!);

Brad Dusek (Brad retired during Gibbs' first training camp, summer of 1981; he was physically a wreck after years of breaking up wedges);

Joe Lavender

Mark Murphy

how about dallas hickman 76-81 ?

[28Zcomeback]

squad in 1972--hey, who knows: if George had played in the Super Bowl VII instead of Rock, they might have punched a few more holes for LB.

I've got photos of George Starke at 1972 charity events; so he was on the team, played in practice, just never played a down that year in a regular season game.

[28Zcomeback]

at Redskins Park in 1972; he was as much a part of the team that year as any other guy on the taxi squad.

[28Zcomeback]

Perry was the rookie surprise find of 1977, along with Murphy and Harmon.

[garedskin]

Charlie Taylor? I think Richie Pettibon did too.

Good job Wild Bore.
You are right on both counts.I knew Petitbon was one but I thought Taylor did not showup until 83 but I was wrong,he came aboard in 82.So there are two of them.My fault I should have done more research before I threw that out to everyone.Peace:

[bgforever]

Charlie Taylor? I think Richie Pettibon did too.


Went to Cincinatti (why do I always forget his name).

Russ Grimm (Pittsburgh)

[Wild Bore]

Went to Cincinatti (why do I always forget his name).

Russ Grimm (Pittsburgh)Are you thinking of Sam Wyche?

[shally]

Went to Cincinatti (why do I always forget his name).

Russ Grimm (Pittsburgh)

do you mean sam wyche?

[shally]

Are you thinking of Sam Wyche?

sorry, Bore, i should have read your answer first.. props to you because i do believe it was Sam,( i am.).. was a reserve for the skins in 1 and not sure about his presence as a coach during the others. he might have been gone to cincy before those...

[bgforever]

sorry, Bore, i should have read your answer first.. props to you because i do believe it was Sam,( i am.).. was a reserve for the skins in 1 and not sure about his presence as a coach during the others. he might have been gone to cincy before those...

Yeah guys, you on it! Thanks! Yeah Sam Wyche - In the 1972 NFC Title game and his famous words to Staubach ("Die Dog, Die!" and when Diron Talbert, Brundige, sacked, he said "He Died!"). He started coaching somewhere else afterwards, Cincy first? I know he became their eventual Head Coach and led them to a SB.

[shally]

Yeah guys, you on it! Thanks! Yeah Sam Wyche - In the 1972 NFC Title game and his famous words to Staubach ("Die Dog, Die!" and when Diron Talbert, Brundige, sacked, he said "He Died!"). He started coaching somewhere else afterwards, Cincy first? I know he became their eventual Head Coach and led them to a SB.

i believe wyche and bill walsh had some crossed paths as well along the way..

[28Zcomeback]

Well, you guessed it--Terry Hermeling played for Lombardi and was released in Gibbs' first camp in 1981. Not a bad career.

[shally]

Well, you guessed it--Terry Hermeling played for Lombardi and was released in Gibbs' first camp in 1981. Not a bad career.

he was a very fine player for a number of years.. and he took a few years to mature into his role because he was not an overnight success.. as i recall, he came from nevada-- not exactly a football factory-- and made himself into a solid player.

[28Zcomeback]

fact that he played in the Cleveland game, 1975, on two VERY tender, critically damaged knees (in great pain) simply because there was no one else available. Skins beat Browns that day, in a must win situation.



whe was a very fine player for a number of years.. and he took a few years to mature into his role because he was not an overnight success.. as i recall, he came from nevada-- not exactly a football factory-- and made himself into a solid player.

[28Zcomeback]

I recall that Jeff Bostic gave an interview one day about his first game with the Redskins, back in 1980.

He mentioned that he was picked up off waivers, and joined the Skins in mid season.

During his first game, young Jeff was somewhat surprised when the last members of the Over the Hill Gang lit up cigerettes at halftime!

Anyway, imagine what the young hog learned from the likes of Talbert, Hermeling, Dusek, Starke, Moseley, Coy Bacon, Joe Lavender, Houstan, and Ron Saul.

Another thing: if you look at the key leadership positions on the 1982 team: the team that never gave up, all major leadership came from George Allen's teams:

Butz
Theisman
Murphy
Riggins
Starke
Moseley

[bgforever]

I recall that Jeff Bostic gave an interview one day about his first game with the Redskins, back in 1980.

He mentioned that he was picked up off waivers, and joined the Skins in mid season.

During his first game, young Jeff was somewhat surprised when the last members of the Over the Hill Gang lit up cigerettes at halftime!

Anyway, imagine what the young hog learned from the likes of Talbert, Hermeling, Dusek, Starke, Moseley, Coy Bacon, Joe Lavender, Houstan, and Ron Saul.

Another thing: if you look at the key leadership positions on the 1982 team: the team that never gave up, all major leadership came from George Allen's teams:

Butz
Theisman
Murphy
Riggins
Starke
Moseley

The connection is exactly right! What happened was the core was there, and of course what Gibbs found out about that core in 81, he was able to change it to work better, but instead of finding out the NEXT year, he found out the SAME year, thus establishing HIM as the one that made it all work. Some people can rely on talent already there and just nudge them a little, however, JG still had to ADD to that and keep it going in 82, which he did. That is REAL coaching and LEADERSHIP! He earned every d moment of it and deserved his place in the HOF!

There were other players that needed to be replaced and it wasn't easy, since JG had to trust in Bobby Beatherd to bring him the folks he needed in each position and the depth which would prove vital to replace folks like Coy Bacon, Dusek, and Monk when he went down with an injury. He saw something in Alvin Garrett, Virgil Seay, Don Warren and others that was legendary! He had REINSPIRED big John Riggins and he found the fountain of youth for 4 more years that would catapult big John, Hondo, Riggo, "Deisel", into the HOF, with a landslide vote and overwhelming following that was worldwide!

A man, a mind, and moment.

[shally]

The connection is exactly right! What happened was the core was there, and of course what Gibbs found out about that core in 81, he was able to change it to work better, but instead of finding out the NEXT year, he found out the SAME year, thus establishing HIM as the one that made it all work. Some people can rely on talent already there and just nudge them a little, however, JG still had to ADD to that and keep it going in 82, which he did. That is REAL coaching and LEADERSHIP! He earned every d moment of it and deserved his place in the HOF!

There were other players that needed to be replaced and it wasn't easy, since JG had to trust in Bobby Beatherd to bring him the folks he needed in each position and the depth which would prove vital to replace folks like Coy Bacon, Dusek, and Monk when he went down with an injury. He saw something in Alvin Garrett, Virgil Seay, Don Warren and others that was legendary! He had REINSPIRED big John Riggins and he found the fountain of youth for 4 more years that would catapult big John, Hondo, Riggo, "Deisel", into the HOF, with a landslide vote and overwhelming following that was worldwide!

A man, a mind, and moment.

amen... same thing happening all over again