Whatever Happened to the Patriot Missile?

[BurgundyNGold]

How is it that in 1991, batteries of US made Patriot missiles could shoot down about half of the SCUD missiles launched at Israel from Iraq but I haven't seen or heard of a single Patriot battery being deployed against the Iranian-made Hezbollah missles being launched from Lebanon? This seems to be the kind of thing that it was designed for and after 15 years to make it better, I'd figure that it would be able to up those intercept percentages.

[akhhorus]

Well, the Patriot Missile can only be used against other missiles. What Hezbollah is shooting at Israel are crude unguided rockets in huge clusters and the Patriots are useless against them. There's no way to intercept them in any way really(which is why Hezbollah and others use them). Just hunker down and wait for the shooting to stop.

[BurgundyNGold]

Well, the Patriot Missile can only be used against other missiles. What Hezbollah is shooting at Israel are crude unguided rockets in huge clusters and the Patriots are useless against them. There's no way to intercept them in any way really(which is why Hezbollah and others use them). Just hunker down and wait for the shooting to stop.
So, they're not really "missiles"? What are they, glorified RPGs?

[akhhorus]

So, they're not really "missiles"? What are they, glorified RPGs?

They're not even that complicated. They have no guidance systems and can be fired quickly. They're basically artillery. And about as stoppable as an artillery shell in the air. Patriots are designed to intercept large guided missiles and are useless against rockets.

[BurgundyNGold]

They're not even that complicated. They have no guidance systems and can be fired quickly. They're basically artillery. And about as stoppable as an artillery shell in the air. Patriots are designed to intercept large guided missiles and are useless against rockets.
Well, they seem pretty damned effective. Probably less than 5% of them ever hit their target, but they are inflicting terror from Tel Aviv on north, which seems to be their only real purpose.

BTW, I love how the Hezbollah leader, the Iranian president and now Al-Zawahiri are all on the same "we have some surprises in store for you" and other hyperbole page. They talk, talk, talk and have nothing.

[akhhorus]

Well, they seem pretty damned effective. Probably less than 5% of them ever hit their target, but they are inflicting terror from Tel Aviv on north, which seems to be their only real purpose.

Thats the whole point of them. They'll take out cars, lightly built buildings and anyone caught outside, but do little else. Sometimes forces put whisiles on the top of them to increase the terror caused by them. But they are useless against modern military forces.

BTW, I love how the Hezbollah leader, the Iranian president and now Al-Zawahiri are all on the same "we have some surprises in store for you" and other hyperbole page. They talk, talk, talk and have nothing.

Im sure they have some cards up their sleeve, but it appears that Israel has done a good job cutting off their supplies and they are expecting a long fight. Oh, and there's no way Al Queda will work with Hezbollah, or even coordinate with them. They might hate Hezbollah more then they hate us.

[Spence]

The Patriot missiles didn't even work well. It emerged later that their 90% success rate had, in fact, been about 10 percent.

[akhhorus]

The Patriot missiles didn't even work well. It emerged later that their 90% success rate had, in fact, been about 10 percent.

yeah, the Israelis are close to releasing the Arrow, their new ABM missile and are rumored to be close to a laser based system that can intercept bullets, artillery shells and rockets.

[Spence]

Did anyone else catch Al Zawahiri's video today? I think that was produced in a sound studio. He's not in a cave and if he's in a safe house it must be a pretty nice safe house. He sure didn't seem like a man on the run. Nice to know the mastermind of the Al Qaeda attacks on 9/11/01 is living so well. [He's not even supposed to be living at all.] Weren't we supposed to do something about that guy? You know, capture or kill him? Seems like a long time ago now.

[akhhorus]

Did anyone else catch Al Zawahiri's video today? I think that was produced in a sound studio. He's not in a cave and if he's in a safe house it must be a pretty nice safe house. He sure didn't seem like a man on the run. Nice to know the mastermind of the Al Qaeda is living so well. [He's not even supposed to be living at all.] Weren't we supposed to do something about that guy? You know, capture or kill him? Seems like a long time ago now.

The current thinking is that they are both in Pershawar, Dagastan or Paraguay. You'd think we would be hunting them...

[BurgundyNGold]

Did anyone else catch Al Zawahiri's video today? I think that was produced in a sound studio. He's not in a cave and if he's in a safe house it must be a pretty nice safe house. He sure didn't seem like a man on the run. Nice to know the mastermind of the Al Qaeda attacks on 9/11/01 is living so well. [He's not even supposed to be living at all.] Weren't we supposed to do something about that guy? You know, capture or kill him? Seems like a long time ago now.
This whole thing is so disheartening. It makes you wonder how we could EVER put a man on the moon. We can't even find two men on the Earth. BTW, this isn't a Bush thing I don't think. The Fed has been pretty much worthless for the balance of both of our lives.

[BurgundyNGold]

The current thinking is that they are both in Pershawar, Dagastan or Paraguay. You'd think we would be hunting them...
Paraguay? As in South America Paraguay? WTF?! Where did you hear that?

[akhhorus]

Paraguay? As in South America Paraguay? WTF?! Where did you hear that?

There's a part in South America where Paraguay, Brazil and I think Chile meet that is a haven for terrorists because there is literally zero government. Michael Mann actually wanted to film the finale to Miami Vice there because they could do stuff there they couldn't in the civilized world. Anywho, Al Queda is pretty big down there and the rumor is that Senior Al Queda leadership has(or will) moved there. They have been seen with American White Supremists down there(thats scary).

[BurgundyNGold]

There's a part in South America where Paraguay, Brazil and I think Chile meet that is a haven for terrorists because there is literally zero government. Michael Mann actually wanted to film the finale to Miami Vice there because they could do stuff there they couldn't in the civilized world. Anywho, Al Queda is pretty big down there and the rumor is that Senior Al Queda leadership has(or will) moved there. They have been seen with American White Supremists down there(thats scary).
There are so many far fetched concepts in that parapgrah that I don't know what to believe, lol. How about none of it? :D

[akhhorus]

There are so many far fetched concepts in that parapgrah that I don't know what to believe, lol. How about none of it? :D

The area is the area of Brazil, Argentina and Paraguay. Its problems are well documented. And its all completely real. The Miami Vice thing is from the MSNBC article on the movie. And the White Supremist thing is from Foreign Affairs 2003. Hezbollah operatives have been caught trying to smuggle coke out of there to sell to raise money for weapons.

[BurgundyNGold]

The area is the area of Brazil, Argentina and Paraguay. Its problems are well documented. And its all completely real. The Miami Vice thing is from the MSNBC article on the movie. And the White Supremist thing is from Foreign Affairs 2003. Hezbollah operatives have been caught trying to smuggle coke out of there to sell to raise money for weapons.
I'm not doubting that any of these things aren't true individually, only that they are pretty incredible individually annd putting them together is surreal.

[akhhorus]

I'm not doubting that any of these things aren't true individually, only that they are pretty incredible individually annd putting them together is surreal.

Truth is always stranger than fiction.

[BurgundyNGold]

Truth is always stranger than fiction.
Yeah, but fiction is more fun. Like if Rambo went over to [insert unknown country] and made grenade popsicles out of bin Laden and al-Zawahiri. Instead, we're stuck with the truth which both sucks and blows.

[akhhorus]

Yeah, but fiction is more fun. Like if Rambo went over to [insert unknown country] and made grenade popsicles out of bin Laden and al-Zawahiri. Instead, we're stuck with the truth which both sucks and blows.

Well, Stallone is in talks to make another Rambo movie where he comes out of retirement after 9-11 to kill Bin Laden....

[PyroGenic]

Well, Stallone is in talks to make another Rambo movie where he comes out of retirement after 9-11 to kill Bin Laden....


I heard that all he's gonna do is run around topless, mutter and then make bin laden's head explode with the incomprehensible sounds that come out of Stallone's mouth.

[BurgundyNGold]

Well, Stallone is in talks to make another Rambo movie where he comes out of retirement after 9-11 to kill Bin Laden....
You mean he come out of the retirement home don't you? :D

[redskin_rich]

This thread is very entertaining, in a dark comedy sort of way. Al Qaeda-Aryans, lol, when I see that I will know that the end days are upon us.

To the initial topic, as Spence pointed out, the Patriots were actually below 10% in interception rate and this was at a cost of well over $100 Mil per missile. If you don't believe me, look it up. The Patriots were as big of a money pit as the Osprey V22 Aircrafts. No wonder Lockheed/Martin is such a powerful company, getting billions upon billions of $$$ for stuff that is less reliable than a slinky.

[bgforever]

This thread is very entertaining, in a dark comedy sort of way. Al Qaeda-Aryans, lol, when I see that I will know that the end days are upon us.

To the initial topic, as Spence pointed out, the Patriots were actually below 10% in interception rate and this was at a cost of well over $100 Mil per missile. If you don't believe me, look it up. The Patriots were as big of a money pit as the Osprey V22 Aircrafts. No wonder Lockheed/Martin is such a powerful company, getting billions upon billions of $$$ for stuff that is less reliable than a slinky.


Here's some more humore then:

http://www.apj.us/2003coulterslandergallery.html


That do dad about South America, black market trading with terrorist, who decide to stay where there is trees, shade, real bathrooms, air conditioning,fully loaded SUV's , cocaine, and getting free head for days, is true. All the while they are planning their s against the US. Who's helping? Millions of unsuspecting Mexicans.

[dukeuch]

yeah, the Israelis are close to releasing the Arrow, their new ABM missile and are rumored to be close to a laser based system that can intercept bullets, artillery shells and rockets.

I call BS on intercepting bullets, but I really don't want to start an argument about it. Let's wait until their laser system is complete and then we will know one way of the other, OK?

[akhhorus]

I call BS on intercepting bullets, but I really don't want to start an argument about it. Let's wait until their laser system is complete and then we will know one way of the other, OK?

I love how you want to make your comments, but want no discussion on them. The prototype system(SkyGuard--and we have our own version which we're designing to take out planes and missiles) has been successfully tested on rockets, artilley shells and missiles. The version that can intercept bullets is being worked on(its apparently a totally different concept than the Skyguard system), but its expected to be ready for testing soon(probably not soon enough).

[swheeler]

I love how you want to make your comments, but want no discussion on them. The prototype system(SkyGuard--and we have our own version which we're designing to take out planes and missiles) has been successfully tested on rockets, artilley shells and missiles. The version that can intercept bullets is being worked on(its apparently a totally different concept than the Skyguard system), but its expected to be ready for testing soon(probably not soon enough).
How would that work? Can it distinguish who's firing the bullets, or does it take them all out? It seems like that would be infinitely more difficult than the others, not just because bullets are smaller but also because they won't explode when you it hits them, so it would have to vaporize them or something.

[akhhorus]

How would that work? Can it distinguish who's firing the bullets, or does it take them all out? It seems like that would be infinitely more difficult than the others, not just because bullets are smaller but also because they won't explode when you it hits them, so it would have to vaporize them or something.

From what I understand it has to do with the laser system targetting anything without a tag or identification(much like IFF for planes) of some sort and then automatically attacks with the laser system. The civilian applications are interesting. Take down any bullet in a given area that doesn't have a tag...could stop gun violence in cities. The laser destroys its target with a super hot burst, so melting bullets(or rockets, artillery shells, etc) would be fairly easy.

[Axegrinder]

Answer:
After an uneventful career in Buffalo,he's now tossing lobs in Big D.

[helimech24]

From what I understand it has to do with the laser system targetting anything without a tag or identification(much like IFF for planes) of some sort and then automatically attacks with the laser system. The civilian applications are interesting. Take down any bullet in a given area that doesn't have a tag...could stop gun violence in cities. The laser destroys its target with a super hot burst, so melting bullets(or rockets, artillery shells, etc) would be fairly easy.That would be pretty interesting to see happen right in front of you. A bullet heading straight for you, and it melts into a metal puddle right before impact.

[akhhorus]

That would be pretty interesting to see happen right in front of you. A bullet heading straight for you, and it melts into a metal puddle right before impact.

Like I said, think of the applications in the civilian world. No more gun violence.

[helimech24]

Like I said, think of the applications in the civilian world. No more gun violence.Imagine what it could do in D.C. right now with all the violence. Maybe the could cut back the death a day to maybe a death a week, lol.

[swheeler]

I just don't see how the anti-bullet lasers work. If it melts it, you still have molten metal hurtling at you at the exact same speed it was going before. I guess air resistance would slow it down, but it would take some distance. Plus, if you have lasers shooting at things that are not up in the air, it seems like there would be a lot of collateral damage.

[helimech24]

I just don't see how the anti-bullet lasers work. If it melts it, you still have molten metal hurtling at you at the exact same speed it was going before. I guess air resistance would slow it down, but it would take some distance. Plus, if you have lasers shooting at things that are not up in the air, it seems like there would be a lot of collateral damage.I don't know if this has any relivence, but I was watching mythbusters on Discovery. They were shotting bullets into water to see how far down it could penetrate. The M16, 50 calibur sniper rifle, and Ak-47 didn't get past 2 feet.

Another thing, what makes a bullet effective is that the shape and spin of the bullet going threw the air. If you disrupt that, it won't be effective at all.

[BurgundyNGold]

I just don't see how the anti-bullet lasers work. If it melts it, you still have molten metal hurtling at you at the exact same speed it was going before. I guess air resistance would slow it down, but it would take some distance. Plus, if you have lasers shooting at things that are not up in the air, it seems like there would be a lot of collateral damage.
I think "vaporize" would be the proper term, but I think that technology is bit far fetched. In essence, we'd be talking about lasers that were able to change the state of lead from solid to a plasma or at least gaseous state. That would take a HUGE about of energy to do this instantaneously. Even then, we'd be talking Star Wars stuff here, folks. Given that we apparently can't get SDI or even the Patriot missle programs working after 20+ years and billions of $$$, I'm not holding out much hope for the Israeli Death Star, lol.

[BurgundyNGold]

I don't know if this has any relivence, but I was watching mythbusters on Discovery. They were shotting bullets into water to see how far down it could penetrate. The M16, 50 calibur sniper rifle, and Ak-47 didn't get past 2 feet.

Another thing, what makes a bullet effective is that the shape and spin of the bullet going threw the air. If you disrupt that, it won't be effective at all.
No, it will start to tumble and will inflict that much more damage on impact because of the odd shape it will take on. :)

[swheeler]

I think "vaporize" would be the proper term, but I think that technology is bit far fetched. In essence, we'd be talking about lasers that were able to change the state of lead from solid to a plasma or at least gaseous state. That would take a HUGE about of energy to do this instantaneously. Even then, we'd be talking Star Wars stuff here, folks. Given that we apparently can't get SDI or even the Patriot missle programs working after 20+ years and billions of $$$, I'm not holding out much hope for the Israeli Death Star, lol.
Yeah that's what i was saying originally, that the bullet would need to be vaporized or something. Akh was saying they could just melt it, but i dont think that would work.

[dukeuch]

I love how you want to make your comments, but want no discussion on them. The prototype system(SkyGuard--and we have our own version which we're designing to take out planes and missiles) has been successfully tested on rockets, artilley shells and missiles. The version that can intercept bullets is being worked on(its apparently a totally different concept than the Skyguard system), but its expected to be ready for testing soon(probably not soon enough).

I'm just saying that there is really no reason to argue about this at this point in time; neither one of us knows if bullets can be intercepted by this system or not, so why argue when in a matter of time we WILL know one way or the other?

[dukeuch]

I love how you want to make your comments, but want no discussion on them. The prototype system(SkyGuard--and we have our own version which we're designing to take out planes and missiles) has been successfully tested on rockets, artilley shells and missiles. The version that can intercept bullets is being worked on(its apparently a totally different concept than the Skyguard system), but its expected to be ready for testing soon(probably not soon enough).

The reason I say BS is because just figuring out how quickly a laser would need to find, target, and take out a bullet seems pretty unlikely: a Glock 17 has a muzzle velocity of 1,230 ft/sec. Now I know that the bullet will continue to slow as it move through the air, but using that speed, at 50 feet, it would hit it's target in 4/100 of a second. At maximum effective range, 165 feet, it would hit the target in 13/100 second. I need to see it work before I believe it. And that's just a pistol.

A New York Knick might be able to recieve an in-bounds pass, wheel and shoot a trey that quickly, but I don't think a laser could.

[akhhorus]

I'm just saying that there is really no reason to argue about this at this point in time; neither one of us knows if bullets can be intercepted by this system or not, so why argue when in a matter of time we WILL know one way or the other?

I'm sorry, but I don't buy this. You framed it in a way that you didn't want any discussion on it. Trying to claim now that you meant that you didn't want to argue over hypotheticals is ridiculous since you obviously want to comment about it.

The reason I say BS is because just figuring out how quickly a laser would need to find, target, and take out a bullet seems pretty unlikely: a Glock 17 has a muzzle velocity of 1,230 ft/sec. Now I know that the bullet will continue to slow as it move through the air, but using that speed, at 50 feet, it would hit it's target in 4/100 of a second. At maximum effective range, 165 feet, it would hit the target in 13/100 second. I need to see it work before I believe it. And that's just a pistol.

A New York Knick might be able to recieve an in-bounds pass, wheel and shoot a trey that quickly, but I don't think a laser could.

You might have a point with short range(say 10-20 yards) gunfire, but I could easily buy that a system could do that. The Phalanx and Goalkeeper CIWS that we and the Brits are designed to find, target and take out missiles moving much faster(and designed to attempt to take out multiple targets coming in also) and the laser system will be moving at the speed of light.

[shally]

Well, the Patriot Missile can only be used against other missiles. What Hezbollah is shooting at Israel are crude unguided rockets in huge clusters and the Patriots are useless against them. There's no way to intercept them in any way really(which is why Hezbollah and others use them). Just hunker down and wait for the shooting to stop.

good point.. while they seem to have unlimited numbers of rockets, the number of launchers seems to be running out.. hopefully so too are the idiots firing them for hezbollah..

[dukeuch]

[QUOTE]I'm sorry, but I don't buy this. You framed it in a way that you didn't want any discussion on it. Trying to claim now that you meant that you didn't want to argue over hypotheticals is ridiculous since you obviously want to comment about it.

First you accuse me of refusing to debate, then when I do you criticize me. Nice style. I quite clearly said that the reason I preferred not to debate it was that time would provide the answer. You, to my discredti, have drawn me out.

You might have a point with short range(say 10-20 yards) gunfire, but I could easily buy that a system could do that. The Phalanx and Goalkeeper CIWS that we and the Brits are designed to find, target and take out missiles moving much faster(and designed to attempt to take out multiple targets coming in also) and the laser system will be moving at the speed of light.

I said nothing about missiles. I called BS on bullets, and bullets only. That a laser can move at the speed of light is only part of the equation. It needs to find, and target the bullet before it can destroy it. I don't think there is enough time to do that, and also wonder how many and where these laser systems would be located that they could be in the right place at the right time to stop a bullet. Another stat: an AK 47 can empty it's 30 round clip in three seconds at maximum rate of fire. This is an old rifle. Your laser system will sight, target, fire, and destroy at a rate of one bullet every 1/10 of a second, from ONE rifle. I don't think there is a system anywhere close to deployment which can do that. Not in our lifetime.

Regarding missiles, how about rockets? Why doesn't Israel buy this wonderful system to protect itself against Hezz rockets?

[akhhorus]

First you accuse me of refusing to debate, then when I do you criticize me. Nice style. I quite clearly said that the reason I preferred not to debate it was that time would provide the answer. You, to my discredti, have drawn me out.

And you could have stuck to your word and not responded.

I said nothing about missiles. I called BS on bullets, and bullets only. That a laser can move at the speed of light is only part of the equation. It needs to find, and target the bullet before it can destroy it. I don't think there is enough time to do that, and also wonder how many and where these laser systems would be located that they could be in the right place at the right time to stop a bullet. Another stat: an AK 47 can empty it's 30 round clip in three seconds at maximum rate of fire. This is an old rifle. Your laser system will sight, target, fire, and destroy at a rate of one bullet every 1/10 of a second, from ONE rifle. I don't think there is a system anywhere close to deployment which can do that. Not in our lifetime.

I think you underestimate the power of radar and military computer system. It is extremely plausible that a computer and radar system could track, target and fire accurately to destroy bullets within a few miles away. The speed of the laser makes it possible.

Regarding missiles, how about rockets? Why doesn't Israel buy this wonderful system to protect itself against Hezz rockets?

Well, they have it, and this is a question that has been brought up many times. Why don't the deploy SkyGuard in the northern parts of Israel. And the only response is that it isn't operational yet.

[dukeuch]

[QUOTE]And you could have stuck to your word and not responded.

I agree with you here, although I don't recall any kind of promise not to discuss, but rather a statement that I'd rather not. I changed my mind because you didn't agree with my proposal to "wait and see". Is that a problem?


I think you underestimate the power of radar and military computer system. It is extremely plausible that a computer and radar system could track, target and fire accurately to destroy bullets within a few miles away. The speed of the laser makes it possible.

Apparently the manufacturer of the SkyGuard does not agree with you, as they make no claims that their system, which as far as I can tell is not in use anywhere, can stop bullets. I also note that the other two weapon systems you use as examples have nothing to do with lasers, nor radar detection of bullets. I reject the notion that if a system can detect a missile, rocket, or artillery shell, that it can detect a bullet, unless someone provides proof.

[QUOTE]Well, they have it, and this is a question that has been brought up many times. Why don't the deploy SkyGuard in the northern parts of Israel. And the only response is that it isn't operational yet.[QUOTE]

Well, if it works so well, I don't know why they, or the United States, does not deploy it immediately. Do you have any idea? When you say it is not operational, do you mean it isn't "turned on" or it does not yet work well (like the "Star Wars" system, or the Patriot Missile?), or something else? If you don't know, I'll accept an I don't know. If you have an opinion, I'd be happy to hear it.

[dukeuch]

AK:

MEA CULPA! Before you rag on me for misrepresenting what you said about the SkyGuard system, let me apologize and say that you never said it could stop bullets. I went back to re-check after I submitted my last post, and you just said that we (or someone) was working aon a similar system desigend to stop bullets.

I do not, however, back off of my doubt that such a system will be ready soon.

[akhhorus]

I agree with you here, although I don't recall any kind of promise not to discuss, but rather a statement that I'd rather not. I changed my mind because you didn't agree with my proposal to "wait and see". Is that a problem?

if you don't want discussion, or don't want anyone to question you, then don't post the thought.

Apparently the manufacturer of the SkyGuard does not agree with you, as they make no claims that their system, which as far as I can tell is not in use anywhere, can stop bullets. I also note that the other two weapon systems you use as examples have nothing to do with lasers, nor radar detection of bullets. I reject the notion that if a system can detect a missile, rocket, or artillery shell, that it can detect a bullet, unless someone provides proof.....AK:

MEA CULPA! Before you rag on me for misrepresenting what you said about the SkyGuard system, let me apologize and say that you never said it could stop bullets. I went back to re-check after I submitted my last post, and you just said that we (or someone) was working aon a similar system desigend to stop bullets.

I do not, however, back off of my doubt that such a system will be ready soon.

Oh my god, Doomsday is near.


Well, they have it, and this is a question that has been brought up many times. Why don't the deploy SkyGuard in the northern parts of Israel. And the only response is that it isn't operational yet.

Well, if it works so well, I don't know why they, or the United States, does not deploy it immediately. Do you have any idea? When you say it is not operational, do you mean it isn't "turned on" or it does not yet work well (like the "Star Wars" system, or the Patriot Missile?), or something else? If you don't know, I'll accept an I don't know. If you have an opinion, I'd be happy to hear it.

We don't know. Israel is being purposefully coy about it. I have a sneaking suspicion that they have deployed it, and it is operational(and is effective), but would rather that Hezbollah continue to fire at it if it works. Despite having the most rockets fired at Israel on Sunday, the news of damage from this salvo was surprisingly light from what I heard(in fact, news of rockets hitting Israel and doing damage are mysteriously light, despite the number of rockets fired at them). Short answer: I don't know for sure. Long answer: I wouldn't be surprised if we heard after the conflict that it was deployed and made a difference.

[CNYSkinFan]

Listen all I wanted was sharks with freakin laser beams on top of their heads....why can't I get that?

[akhhorus]

Listen all I wanted was sharks with freakin laser beams on top of their heads....why can't I get that?

What do we have...
-Israeli Sea Bass
Right...
-They're mutant Israeli sea bass
Are they ill tempered?
-Yes, we locked them in a room with Mel Gibson...

[BurgundyNGold]

Despite having the most rockets fired at Israel on Sunday, the news of damage from this salvo was surprisingly light from what I heard(in fact, news of rockets hitting Israel and doing damage are mysteriously light, despite the number of rockets fired at them). Short answer: I don't know for sure. Long answer: I wouldn't be surprised if we heard after the conflict that it was deployed and made a difference.
I think this has more to do with the fact that these rockets are not guided in any way. They might as well be using a catapult from the Lebanon border.

[akhhorus]

I think this has more to do with the fact that these rockets are not guided in any way. They might as well be using a catapult from the Lebanon border.

This is true, but the should be causing some damage at least. Even without guidance systems, its kind of hard to miss a country. Its just supposition on my part, but don't be surprised if Israel has deployed this system and want to keep Hezbollah thinking that it can shoot rockets at them.

[BurgundyNGold]

This is true, but the should be causing some damage at least. Even without guidance systems, its kind of hard to miss a country. Its just supposition on my part, but don't be surprised if Israel has deployed this system and want to keep Hezbollah thinking that it can shoot rockets at them.
Yeah, but there's a whole lot of empty desert in northern Israel. IMO, the only thing that Hezbollah -- and by extention Iran -- is showing is how effing backward they are. These folks might as well throw rocks.

[shally]

Yeah, but there's a whole lot of empty desert in northern Israel. IMO, the only thing that Hezbollah -- and by extention Iran -- is showing is how effing backward they are. These folks might as well throw rocks.

the desert (negev) is inthe south of israel.. the northern area around gallilee is much more populated, which is why the rockets usually find some kind of population center

[BurgundyNGold]

the desert (negev) is inthe south of israel.. the northern area around gallilee is much more populated, which is why the rockets usually find some kind of population center
Sure, Haifa and it surrounding areas are pretty populous, but there are many parts of the north that are sparsely populated.

[dukeuch]

if you don't want discussion, or don't want anyone to question you, then don't post the thought.



Oh my god, Doomsday is near.




We don't know. Israel is being purposefully coy about it. I have a sneaking suspicion that they have deployed it, and it is operational(and is effective), but would rather that Hezbollah continue to fire at it if it works. Despite having the most rockets fired at Israel on Sunday, the news of damage from this salvo was surprisingly light from what I heard(in fact, news of rockets hitting Israel and doing damage are mysteriously light, despite the number of rockets fired at them). Short answer: I don't know for sure. Long answer: I wouldn't be surprised if we heard after the conflict that it was deployed and made a difference.

I will be very surprised if we hear after the conflict that the system is deployed at all, and even more surprised if it made a difference. I guess we need to wait until after the conflict, right?

[dukeuch]

Oh yeah; and if Israel has a a rocket defense system that works, and isn't using it, which leads to the deaths of Israeli's, ooooohhh boy! Someone's gonna be in trouble.

[akhhorus]

I will be very surprised if we hear after the conflict that the system is deployed at all, and even more surprised if it made a difference. I guess we need to wait until after the conflict, right?

Assuming that it is operational and moderately effective, why announce it? Better to let Hezbollah shoot off their rockets so you know where they are and can attack.