Vision Quest: The Final 53 Post Ravens Scrimmage....on the blog!!

[CNYSkinFan]

I have posted my reaction to the scrimmage as well how I think it effects the battles for the roster spots on the warpath blog. You can read the article by clicking the linke below:

Vision Quest: The Final 53 Post Ravens Scrimmage (http://www.hailredskins.com/blog/index.php?p=287)

and tell me how I am wrong below.

[FanFromArizona]

Your breakout of the 53 are interesting:

25 offense, 25 defense, 3 specialists.

The only difference of opinion I have is with Kolston making the roster as opposed to the Practice Squad. We have enough depth on the DLine that we don't need 9 on the roster. I think 8 is the magic number there.

The roster spot I just took away will be given in either the RB/FB area [I think 6 is the magic number] or an additional LB/DB. It will come down to ST play who gets this magic at-large spot.

[lakeskin]

Great commentary on Warrick Holdman. I just cant get comfortable with him as our starting OLB. Its like having a dream team on defense and somehow Chrsitian Laetnner cracked the starting five. The sooner Rocky steps up the better.

Sean and Marcus are gonna have moster years.

[BigCountry]

I don't think Casey Bramlett is as bad as you said he is. He made one very nice throw yesterday and seems to have a pro arm. He warrants a practice squad spot imo.

[BurgundyNGold]

I don't think Casey Bramlett is as bad as you said he is. He made one very nice throw yesterday and seems to have a pro arm. He warrants a practice squad spot imo.
I think he also threw a pick in the end zone, if I'm not mistaken.

[DUCKIN_TACKLERS]

I agree on almost all except i see Possibly Lumsden or Espy making the squad cause of just how good they have looked. I doubt they would see the field except on teams but they might show just enough that we have to put them on the roster in order to keep teams from poaching them from us.

[CNYSkinFan]

Ok just so everyone realizes that each of the last two years under GW we have kept 9 DL. And I know the standard response is the versatility of wynn and evans will allow us to keep fewer but wynn and evans were on the squad the last two years as well as another tweener type player in Boschetti yet still felt the need to keep 9 players. With the fragility of Salavea and Griffin I think GW will keep 9 DL, like he has the last two years.

[FanFromArizona]

Ok just so everyone realizes that each of the last two years under GW we have kept 9 DL. And I know the standard response is the versatility of wynn and evans will allow us to keep fewer but wynn and evans were on the squad the last two years as well as another tweener type player in Boschetti yet still felt the need to keep 9 players. With the fragility of Salavea and Griffin I think GW will keep 9 DL, like he has the last two years.

Philosophically, I know you and I will disagree on this point, and this will be my last on my philosophy in this thread. In the end, I guess Sept. 2nd will be the day of revelation. Normally I would agree with past history, but the QUALITY of the depth we have THIS YEAR is something we have not had in years. It was a false sense of depth in year's past, but we have a solid core of players this year. Calling Boschetti "depth" last year was a false sense of depth. I have no concerns with our depth here because our backups [Wynn, Evans, Killings] have extensive game time from last year that they could serve us well in a pinch, especially considering Wynn was our starter last year. Evans was part of the normal line rotation last year. Montgomery and Killings will be fresh and able-bodied run stuffers. Stash Golston on PS and free up the spot.

The other reason I am not such a fan of 9 this year is because DT usually don't play special teams. I would much rather have a faster player like a RB/FB or LB/DB take Golston's roster spot, because the injury bug does seem to affect special teamers quite often.

[Keino]

Ok just so everyone realizes that each of the last two years under GW we have kept 9 DL. And I know the standard response is the versatility of wynn and evans will allow us to keep fewer but wynn and evans were on the squad the last two years as well as another tweener type player in Boschetti yet still felt the need to keep 9 players. With the fragility of Salavea and Griffin I think GW will keep 9 DL, like he has the last two years.


I agree that we keep 9. Our Defense was noticably worse when Griff and Salavae were both injured last year, and I think the goal was to improve our depth there. Sure seems like we have, and one way to improve depth is to add starter quality (Moving an aging starter to a reserve role) and addressing the position in the draft. We did both of those things.

[Keino]

Philosophically, I know you and I will disagree on this point, and this will be my last on my philosophy in this thread. In the end, I guess Sept. 2nd will be the day of revelation. Normally I would agree with past history, but the QUALITY of the depth we have THIS YEAR is something we have not had in years. It was a false sense of depth in year's past, but we have a solid core of players this year. Calling Boschetti "depth" last year was a false sense of depth. I have no concerns with our depth here because our backups [Wynn, Evans, Killings] have extensive game time from last year that they could serve us well in a pinch, especially considering Wynn was our starter last year. Evans was part of the normal line rotation last year. Montgomery and Killings will be fresh and able-bodied run stuffers. Stash Golston on PS and free up the spot.

The other reason I am not such a fan of 9 this year is because DT usually don't play special teams. I would much rather have a faster player like a RB/FB or LB/DB take Golston's roster spot, because the injury bug does seem to affect special teamers quite often.

But every DT on the roster gets gametime because of the amount of rotation that Blanche and WIlliams employ

[FanFromArizona]

But every DT on the roster gets gametime because of the amount of rotation that Blanche and WIlliams employ

The point I am trying to make is why allocate 9 roster spots, when it could be 8 roster spots and 1 to the Practice Squad. Not everyone gets to suit up on a Sunday, do you believe that Kolston gets activated each week and would get some playing time when active? The only way I see Kolston playing is is we had Body Bag Game II.

I am sure you would agree that he doesn't make the team for his ST abilities.

[Keino]

The point I am trying to make is why allocate 9 roster spots, when it could be 8 roster spots and 1 to the Practice Squad. Not everyone gets to suit up on a Sunday, do you believe that Kolston gets activated each week and would get some playing time when active? The only way I see Kolston playing is is we had Body Bag Game II.

I am sure you would agree that he doesn't make the team for his ST abilities.

The point Im making is that 8 guys see regular playing time in this system. Keeping 8 puts you at risk of upsetting the normal rotation that Blanche and Williams employ on the D line. ST abilities have very little to do with it.

We, during every game last year played the following players alot: (Starters) Griff, Salavae, Daniels, Wynn (Reserves) Killings, Boschetti, Clemons & Evans.

Do you honestly think we will only keep the number of guys on the D line that get into the game week in and week out?

We will keep 9, like we have for the past 2 years and will play 8 regularly and if there is an injury, the 9th will step in.

[CNYSkinFan]

add in the fact that even if we kept 6 rb/fb no way they would all be active on gameday and the special teams ability won't matter. We will have 10 guys on kickoff coverage teams (4 or 5 lbers, Thrash, Rock, Taylor, a couple of DBers or WR) we are not going to be short on special team play.

[shally]

But every DT on the roster gets gametime because of the amount of rotation that Blanche and WIlliams employ

keeping pressure onthe qb and stuffing the run constantly is key for the defense. it all starts inthe trenches. keep 9 to keep them all fresh and used in rotation

[hockeygoalie29]

Great right up, but is Denard Wilson eligible for the practice squad after spending a year on IR?

[CNYSkinFan]

Great right up, but is Denard Wilson eligible for the practice squad after spending a year on IR?
he was not on IR he signed an injury settlement I believe. This means he does not have one year of accrued NFL season...but I may be wrong.

[Biggie]

Ok just so everyone realizes that each of the last two years under GW we have kept 9 DL. And I know the standard response is the versatility of wynn and evans will allow us to keep fewer but wynn and evans were on the squad the last two years as well as another tweener type player in Boschetti yet still felt the need to keep 9 players. With the fragility of Salavea and Griffin I think GW will keep 9 DL, like he has the last two years.

To be fair, I would call Salavea anything but fragile.

[redwolf1218]

i think it will be a shame if we keep Rock on the active roster and lose Lumsden and Carter to other teams, because they are bigger, faster and younger, even if they might be less experienced. if they continue to look good and dont fumble, they deserve a shot. i really think fumbling is important, and so far Rock is the only one with a fumble that i read about this year.

[BurgundyNGold]

i think it will be a shame if we keep Rock on the active roster and lose Lumsden and Carter to other teams, because they are bigger, faster and younger, even if they might be less experienced. if they continue to look good and dont fumble, they deserve a shot. i really think fumbling is important, and so far Rock is the only one with a fumble that i read about this year.
In all truthfullness, I don't see it as Lumsden/Carter vs. Rock. I think it might be more Lumsden/Carter vs. Nemo.

[redwolf1218]

In all truthfullness, I don't see it as Lumsden/Carter vs. Rock. I think it might be more Lumsden/Carter vs. Nemo.
Lumsden, Carter and Nemo are all bigger and faster than Rock, plus he fumbles. i just dont get the love affair with Rock. i think of it like this, with an objective view and no burgundy goggles, if all of them were cut, who would make another team's roster?

[CNYSkinFan]

Lumsden, Carter and Nemo are all bigger and faster than Rock, plus he fumbles. i just dont get the love affair with Rock. i think of it like this, with an objective view and no burgundy goggles, if all of them were cut, who would make another team's roster?
probably none because 3rd string running backs are a dime a dozen...and that is my point. Take the vet who has helped us win before and contributes over the wishful thinking that these Canadian running backs are just diamonds in the rough that we were lucky to get. Lumsden was passed over before by the NCAA and Seahawks. He will be there to sign on the PS if we want him.

[shally]

Great right up, but is Denard Wilson eligible for the practice squad after spending a year on IR?

did he spend the year on IR or was he released injured/settlement ? i cannot recall

[redwolf1218]

probably none because 3rd string running backs are a dime a dozen...and that is my point. Take the vet who has helped us win before and contributes over the wishful thinking that these Canadian running backs are just diamonds in the rough that we were lucky to get. Lumsden was passed over before by the NCAA and Seahawks. He will be there to sign on the PS if we want him.
by that reasoning, no one drafted or otherwise would ever make the team over the incumbent. no one is ever better, there is no chance for improvement, competition is an illusion.

[CNYSkinFan]

by that reasoning, no one drafted or otherwise would ever make the team over the incumbent. no one is ever better, there is no chance for improvement, competition is an illusion.
How many former canadian all stars are in the league right now?

[shally]

he was not on IR he signed an injury settlement I believe. This means he does not have one year of accrued NFL season...but I may be wrong.

i think that is the way i remember it happening as well.. if so, he should have a t least 1 year for the PS left.

[whitskins]

Question: What was so bad about Warrick Holdman?


I'm watching the tape again right now and I thought he played fine. He got blocked on a couple plays against the first team but also looked much more active on the other plays and was near the ball. And when he dropped into coverage the QB never threw to his man. He also had some nice penetration on a blitz that opened up a big hole for Marcus to rush in on a delay and force a short pass for no gain.

Watching him against the second team right now and he's making a couple tackles and being active again.

I didn't think he did anything too special but definitely not horrible. How could the guy be horrible when our first team played without three starters on the DL and the Ravens still rushed for just a handful of yards? I think he filled in fine.

[Jon Jansen is money]

Lumsden, Carter and Nemo are all bigger and faster than Rock, plus he fumbles. i just dont get the love affair with Rock. i think of it like this, with an objective view and no burgundy goggles, if all of them were cut, who would make another team's roster?

Rock has some experience starting as an NFL RB so i imagine he could sign on if someone were desperate. He can play both FB and TB so hes got that going for him, which is nice.

[CNYSkinFan]

Question: What was so bad about Warrick Holdman?


I'm watching the tape again right now and I thought he played fine. He got blocked on a couple plays against the first team but also looked much more active on the other plays and was near the ball. And when he dropped into coverage the QB never threw to his man. He also had some nice penetration on a blitz that opened up a big hole for Marcus to rush in on a delay and force a short pass for no gain.

Watching him against the second team right now and he's making a couple tackles and being active again.

I didn't think he did anything too special but definitely not horrible. How could the guy be horrible when our first team played without three starters on the DL and the Ravens still rushed for just a handful of yards? I think he filled in fine.
I could not tape the game and watched it at a sports bar...so I may be wrong. but the few times I saw him one of them he was getting blocked downfield by a wide receiver and flashes of last year came into my mind. I would love to see Holdman do better this year, but I just don't trust it.

Then again I didn't trust Brunell until Dallas so I guess I will have to see it in game action.

[shally]

Rock has some experience starting as an NFL RB so i imagine he could sign on if someone were desperate. He can play both FB and TB so hes got that going for him, which is nice.

he is a below average blocker. a decent receiver and a decent short yardage back.. he is not someone i would feel comfortable about being the primary back in a game we needed to win..

[Jon Jansen is money]

he is a below average blocker. a decent receiver and a decent short yardage back.. he is not someone i would feel comfortable about being the primary back in a game we needed to win..

I wouldnt want him being my primary back either, but a 3rd stringer? Sure. Does special teams, and has experience carrying the ball. Thats all i'm saying.

[shally]

I wouldnt want him being my primary back either, but a 3rd stringer? Sure. Does special teams, and has experience carrying the ball. Thats all i'm saying.

seriously, for a moment.. the issue is not this year. we have betts for backup.. it is next year when we lose betts more likely than not.. it would be nice to have betts' replacement already onthe roster. in that sense, rock is clearly not the man. it would be great to know that lumsden or carter is that person..

[Jon Jansen is money]

seriously, for a moment.. the issue is not this year. we have betts for backup.. it is next year when we lose betts more likely than not.. it would be nice to have betts' replacement already onthe roster. in that sense, rock is clearly not the man. it would be great to know that lumsden or carter is that person..

I know Rock is not a serious backup for Portis next year. Despite lacking the necessary skills, Rock is becoming a veteran and we don't want to tie up money with him. Rock will make a fine ST/3rd RB for some other team. My guess is that Betts' replacement won't be Lumsden or Carter, but we'll draft one when the time comes.

[whitskins]

I could not tape the game and watched it at a sports bar...so I may be wrong. but the few times I saw him one of them he was getting blocked downfield by a wide receiver and flashes of last year came into my mind. I would love to see Holdman do better this year, but I just don't trust it.

Then again I didn't trust Brunell until Dallas so I guess I will have to see it in game action.

If you can watch it again on NFL Network or elsewhere give him another look. Again, nothing spectacular, but I thought he looked alright and a lot more active than last year.

I think I know the play you're talking about and the guy who blocked him out of the play was Todd Heap, so thankfully not a WR, but he did get blocked well. Another play were he made a bit of a hiccup was when ST made his HUGE hit, he overpursued and got caught outside when Anderson cut back, but luckily Taylor was there to fill the lane and clean his clock.

Other than that I thought he did prettty well, he was near the ball and he wasn't targeted in coverage so hopefully that means he's in decent shape. I'm not expecting him to make plays on his own, but I think he can play his role and help swarm around out there. If he can just hold down the fort until Rocky is ready then we'll be in good shape cause if we're healthy I think he's our only legitimate question mark on D.

[SonnyandSam]

I remember being one of the first to pooh pooh Lumsden as being able to make the team.....and I may have to eat my words.

I think he has a better chance of making the team than you might think CNYSkinsfan. First, he is impressing coaches AND players in camp. He played well in the scrimmage and Danny Smith has him starting on the kick and punt coverage teams. And Smith has had some positive comments about his size and speed making him a perfect coverage guy.

Watching which new guy is starting on the special teams is a big indicator of which "bubble guys" are a step ahead of the others.

Unless he blows up in the next couple weeks, I'm leaning towards thinking the Skins may find a roster spot for this guy. And it may be at the expense of Nemo or White. Yesterday I read somewhere that the Skins were considering working him in at fullback.

As for 8 or 9 defensive linemen discussed earlier, if Gibbs feels he needs one of those spots for a Lumsden or someone else, Williams just may have to deal with 8 defensive linemen this year.

And my two cents.....I thought Holdman played OK....not great but OK.

But overall....I can't argue much with your predicted roster. Other than Lumsden at this point, I'm not sure Boschetti is as out of it as you suggest. Still a lot of time to see who wins out.

[shally]

I remember being one of the first to pooh pooh Lumsden as being able to make the team.....and I may have to eat my words.

I think he has a better chance of making the team than you might think CNYSkinsfan. First, he is impressing coaches AND players in camp. He played well in the scrimmage and Danny Smith has him starting on the kick and punt coverage teams. And Smith has had some positive comments about his size and speed making him a perfect coverage guy.

Watching which new guy is starting on the special teams is a big indicator of which "bubble guys" are a step ahead of the others.

Unless he blows up in the next couple weeks, I'm leaning towards thinking the Skins may find a roster spot for this guy. And it may be at the expense of Nemo or White. Yesterday I read somewhere that the Skins were considering working him in at fullback.

As for 8 or 9 defensive linemen discussed earlier, if Gibbs feels he needs one of those spots for a Lumsden or someone else, Williams just may have to deal with 8 defensive linemen this year.

And my two cents.....I thought Holdman played OK....not great but OK.

But overall....I can't argue much with your predicted roster. Other than Lumsden at this point, I'm not sure Boschetti is as out of it as you suggest. Still a lot of time to see who wins out.


agree with your take on things.. i believe injuries will likely make a lot of the calls for the skins.. it often happens that way

[X-Factor13]

The ONLY problem i have with this article is that you somehow got the nickname "Zeke" out of Ikechuku Ndukwe. Hold on... Ikechuku Ndukwe! Where is "zeke" in that?!

[CNYSkinFan]

The ONLY problem i have with this article is that you somehow got the nickname "Zeke" out of Ikechuku Ndukwe. Hold on... Ikechuku Ndukwe! Where is "zeke" in that?!
That is his nickname. Vinny valled him that in the offseason. Don't ask me how they got it.

[CNYSkinFan]

If you can watch it again on NFL Network or elsewhere give him another look. Again, nothing spectacular, but I thought he looked alright and a lot more active than last year.

I think I know the play you're talking about and the guy who blocked him out of the play was Todd Heap, so thankfully not a WR, but he did get blocked well. Another play were he made a bit of a hiccup was when ST made his HUGE hit, he overpursued and got caught outside when Anderson cut back, but luckily Taylor was there to fill the lane and clean his clock.

Other than that I thought he did prettty well, he was near the ball and he wasn't targeted in coverage so hopefully that means he's in decent shape. I'm not expecting him to make plays on his own, but I think he can play his role and help swarm around out there. If he can just hold down the fort until Rocky is ready then we'll be in good shape cause if we're healthy I think he's our only legitimate question mark on D.
I am going to withhold judgment until the Cincy game and tape that and watch it over and over again (my cable provider does not give NFL network the bastards).

You are right though, he is the chink in our armor, hopefully McIntosh will be ready.

[CNYSkinFan]

If you can watch it again on NFL Network or elsewhere give him another look. Again, nothing spectacular, but I thought he looked alright and a lot more active than last year.

I think I know the play you're talking about and the guy who blocked him out of the play was Todd Heap, so thankfully not a WR, but he did get blocked well. Another play were he made a bit of a hiccup was when ST made his HUGE hit, he overpursued and got caught outside when Anderson cut back, but luckily Taylor was there to fill the lane and clean his clock.

Other than that I thought he did prettty well, he was near the ball and he wasn't targeted in coverage so hopefully that means he's in decent shape. I'm not expecting him to make plays on his own, but I think he can play his role and help swarm around out there. If he can just hold down the fort until Rocky is ready then we'll be in good shape cause if we're healthy I think he's our only legitimate question mark on D.
I am going to withhold judgment until the Cincy game and tape that and watch it over and over again (my cable provider does not give NFL network the bastards).

You are right though, he is the chink in our armor, hopefully McIntosh will be ready.

[CNYSkinFan]

I remember being one of the first to pooh pooh Lumsden as being able to make the team.....and I may have to eat my words.

I think he has a better chance of making the team than you might think CNYSkinsfan. First, he is impressing coaches AND players in camp. He played well in the scrimmage and Danny Smith has him starting on the kick and punt coverage teams. And Smith has had some positive comments about his size and speed making him a perfect coverage guy.

Watching which new guy is starting on the special teams is a big indicator of which "bubble guys" are a step ahead of the others.

Unless he blows up in the next couple weeks, I'm leaning towards thinking the Skins may find a roster spot for this guy. And it may be at the expense of Nemo or White. Yesterday I read somewhere that the Skins were considering working him in at fullback.

As for 8 or 9 defensive linemen discussed earlier, if Gibbs feels he needs one of those spots for a Lumsden or someone else, Williams just may have to deal with 8 defensive linemen this year.

And my two cents.....I thought Holdman played OK....not great but OK.

But overall....I can't argue much with your predicted roster. Other than Lumsden at this point, I'm not sure Boschetti is as out of it as you suggest. Still a lot of time to see who wins out.

If Lumsden starts playing some at FB then I will agree with you, and if he is starting on special teams come week 3 of pre season then that surely will be an indicator as well. Sopmething to think about is that Nemo, Rock, White they are all PS ineligible, Lumsden is PS eligible. We could keep all of them if Lumsden goes to the PS. I don't buy if we cut him in the final cutdown that another team will sign him to their regular roster. And if they do we can then sign Carter to the PS who looks just as gooid if not better.

[GoDannyBoy]

How many former canadian all stars are in the league right now?

Walla Walla:)

I don't know about the all star part but I can't wait to see him blowing people up this year!

[smoak]

To be fair, I would call Salavea anything but fragile.

Not kidding!!! The man played through pain all season and only missed two games. He also performed surgery on himself in the off season. Sure it was probably just scraping at the thing on his foot, but wow. I love the guy and think he really is under appreciated here.

[vabeach_skinsfan]

I agree on almost all except i see Possibly Lumsden or Espy making the squad cause of just how good they have looked. I doubt they would see the field except on teams but they might show just enough that we have to put them on the roster in order to keep teams from poaching them from us.


Depsite having enough depth at those positions, I totaly agree about those two making the squad. We need to give these guys a job, becasue I think they're good enough to make a difference. Lumsden looked descent rushing the ball against the Ravens, he even had that 12 yd TD....had the crowd going nutzo asking,"who is that guy". I had to enlighten the youts and give them some info about Jesse. I wouldn't mind having this guys on the team.

[hockeygoalie29]

he was not on IR he signed an injury settlement I believe. This means he does not have one year of accrued NFL season...but I may be wrong.

I wasn't sure either but this is what the Redskins.com has to say in his player profile:


Re-signed with the Redskins on May 30, 2006...He originally joined the roster in April 2004 as an undrafted rookie free agent out of Maryland...Wilson suffered a knee injury during 2004 training camp with the Redskins and was placed on the team's injured reserve list

[CNYSkinFan]

ok Fragile was a poor choice of words but Salavea has missed time each of the last two years, same with Griff. I love them both but we need depth at the position and dropping from 9 DL would probably not be a good thing.

[skins74]

I have posted my reaction to the scrimmage as well how I think it effects the battles for the roster spots on the warpath blog. You can read the article by clicking the linke below:

Vision Quest: The Final 53 Post Ravens Scrimmage (http://www.hailredskins.com/blog/index.php?p=287)

and tell me how I am wrong below.


Looks good to me, nice job!

[skins74]

I have posted my reaction to the scrimmage as well how I think it effects the battles for the roster spots on the warpath blog. You can read the article by clicking the linke below:

Vision Quest: The Final 53 Post Ravens Scrimmage (http://www.hailredskins.com/blog/index.php?p=287)

and tell me how I am wrong below.


Looks good to me, nice job!

[Patrick]

Will be interesting to see the changes (if any) by ps game #2.

[Keino]

Lumsden, Carter and Nemo are all bigger and faster than Rock, plus he fumbles. i just dont get the love affair with Rock. i think of it like this, with an objective view and no burgundy goggles, if all of them were cut, who would make another team's roster?

Dude, have you been watching at all? Nemo looks horrible. The one who would make another team's roster is the one with some real NFL experience. I'm not sure why you think Rock has such little value.

[CNYSkinFan]

Dude, have you been watching at all? Nemo looks horrible. The one who would make another team's roster is the one with some real NFL experience. I'm not sure why you think Rock has such little value.
And once again if the team wanted to upgrade over Rock they would not have resigned him. Obviously Gibbs likes Rock alot to give him a 300k SB in the offseason when there was so little interest in him (Holdman got a 25k bonus)

[SonnyandSam]

And once again if the team wanted to upgrade over Rock they would not have resigned him. Obviously Gibbs likes Rock alot to give him a 300k SB in the offseason when there was so little interest in him (Holdman got a 25k bonus)

You keep bringing up those signing bonuses like they mean something. Both are chump change and will have NO bearing on Gibbs decision to keep either. Gibbs will keep the players that can make the biggest contribution to the team.

Holdman's a cinch just because of his experience. Rock has the edge because he is a known commodity to the staff for his running and special teams. Guys like Lumsden, Nemo, etc. are going to have to really outshine Rock in order to take his spot.

Despite some people's love affair with Rock....he is an average running back. He will never be a starter in the NFL. He needs to prove his value on special teams to keep his spot.

[CNYSkinFan]

You keep bringing up those signing bonuses like they mean something. Both are chump change and will have NO bearing on Gibbs decision to keep either. Gibbs will keep the players that can make the biggest contribution to the team.

Holdman's a cinch just because of his experience. Rock has the edge because he is a known commodity to the staff for his running and special teams. Guys like Lumsden, Nemo, etc. are going to have to really outshine Rock in order to take his spot.

Despite some people's love affair with Rock....he is an average running back. He will never be a starter in the NFL. He needs to prove his value on special teams to keep his spot.
slow down there I have never said Rock is a starting running back in this league. I have said he is a better then average 3rd string back and a below average 2nd string running back.

But the signing bonus do mean one thing, what the Front Office and Gibs felt about the players when they resigned him. Since Gibbs makes all personnell decisions with inputs from Saunders and Williams it speaks volumes about whether they felt they needed to upgrade those positions. People like Campbell, Killings, and Rock got significant contracts in the off season when there was very little interest in them. It is significant

[SonnyandSam]

I wasn't accusing you of saying Rock is a starting quality running back....notice I said "some people"....wasn't talking about you on that one.

The signing bonuses were only significant at the time they were signed...that was before the draft and signing of several free agents.

I still say Joe picks his players regardless of what money is invested in the player....PROOF.....LaVar.....or Coles last year. We have taken huge million dollar hits to dump players or make space on the team. $350,000 signing bonus for Rock is peanuts. It will have no bearing on whether Joe keeps Rock or Lumsden should it come down to it. Snyder nor Gibbs value money that much. Now maybe that's how Bill Bidwell and Mike Brown make roster decisions but not the Redskins.

[CNYSkinFan]

I wasn't accusing you of saying Rock is a starting quality running back....notice I said "some people"....wasn't talking about you on that one.

The signing bonuses were only significant at the time they were signed...that was before the draft and signing of several free agents.

I still say Joe picks his players regardless of what money is invested in the player....PROOF.....LaVar.....or Coles last year. We have taken huge million dollar hits to dump players or make space on the team. $350,000 signing bonus for Rock is peanuts. It will have no bearing on whether Joe keeps Rock or Lumsden should it come down to it. Snyder nor Gibbs value money that much. Now maybe that's how Bill Bidwell and Mike Brown make roster decisions but not the Redskins.
True but also Joe did not sign those players either. They were done before he got here.

I have yet to see Gibbs ver II be wrong about a FA signing and dump him the first year after signing him.

[redwolf1218]

Dude, have you been watching at all? Nemo looks horrible. The one who would make another team's roster is the one with some real NFL experience. I'm not sure why you think Rock has such little value.
i dont think Rock would make any other team's roster. i'm not sure why you think he has such a high value.

[Keino]

i dont think Rock would make any other team's roster. i'm not sure why you think he has such a high value.

I don't think his value is all that high, but he is not the bum you and hanbrug make him out to be. After Stephen Davis left, I remember Rock being the only one who could grind out some tough yards. Hanburg makes it seem like the guy fumbled away dozens of games. He had one crucial fumble. SO when someone mentions his St. louis gameit gets poo poo'd as if Rock is the reason that we were in a "5 in a row or we don't go situation" nevermind that Clinton had 2 crucial fumbles just two weeks earlier against Oakland that set up Oakland points. Every RB fumbles.

Rock is an average talent, but he overachieves. Gibbs obviously likes him, and again, if he is on the bubble, then he most certainly would've been getting playing time against the Ravens. They held him out. A very telling sign.

You don't think that Rock could make SF's roster? pshhhhhhhh.

[redwolf1218]

I don't think his value is all that high, but he is not the bum you and hanbrug make him out to be. After Stephen Davis left, I remember Rock being the only one who could grind out some tough yards. Hanburg makes it seem like the guy fumbled away dozens of games. He had one crucial fumble. SO when someone mentions his St. louis gameit gets poo poo'd as if Rock is the reason that we were in a "5 in a row or we don't go situation" nevermind that Clinton had 2 crucial fumbles just two weeks earlier against Oakland that set up Oakland points. Every RB fumbles.

Rock is an average talent, but he overachieves. Gibbs obviously likes him, and again, if he is on the bubble, then he most certainly would've been getting playing time against the Ravens. They held him out. A very telling sign.

You don't think that Rock could make SF's roster? pshhhhhhhh.
i liked it when Rock was called on only to grind out a few tough yards. in an expanded roll, he's not so special. there was no one else to challenge him before, but now he has some competition. that only makes the team better.

and no, i dont think he'd make San Fran's roster or any other team's roster. it's just too easy to find someone better because he has so many glaring faults to counter-act his limited abilities.

[redskin_rich]

i liked it when Rock was called on only to grind out a few tough yards. in an expanded roll, he's not so special. there was no one else to challenge him before, but now he has some competition. that only makes the team better.

and no, i dont think he'd make San Fran's roster or any other team's roster. it's just too easy to find someone better because he has so many glaring faults to counter-act his limited abilities.
To be honest RW, I don't think Rock is being contested. Lumsden, Nemo and Carter appear to be fighting for 2 positions. 5th RB/FB on the roster and practice squad. Manny White is apparently below them right now and may not make it past the first or second cuts.

[whitskins]

I don't understand how in the world Rock Cartwright wouldn't make any other team's roster.

This is basically saying the guy is the worst RB in the NFL right now. No way that is the case. The guy's average yards per carry in his career is 4.5. He played a pretty significant role for us in 2003 and sniffed out some tough yards as Keino said.

He's not a starter in the NFL, but he's made our team for four years. We carried four RBs last year on the roster when we could have easily made due with three, yet we kept him again when everyone (including myself) thought he was as good as gone. I don't understand how this guy could be seen as the worst RB in the NFL, Kenny freaking Watson found a place in the league after we let him go, Rock would too if we were to do the same.

[BurgundyNGold]

To be honest RW, I don't think Rock is being contested. Lumsden, Nemo and Carter appear to be fighting for 2 positions. 5th RB/FB on the roster and practice squad. Manny White is apparently below them right now and may not make it past the first or second cuts.
Chris Canty... Chris Canty... Chris Canty...

Arrrrgggghhhh!!!! :banghead:

[redwolf1218]

To be honest RW, I don't think Rock is being contested. Lumsden, Nemo and Carter appear to be fighting for 2 positions. 5th RB/FB on the roster and practice squad. Manny White is apparently below them right now and may not make it past the first or second cuts.
2 positions for Lumsden, Nemo and Carter sounds good to me. i am intrigued by all of them.

someone has to back up Betts and someone has to back up Sellers.

[shally]

i dont think Rock would make any other team's roster. i'm not sure why you think he has such a high value.

kenny watson made another teams roster and he is still there, i believe. rock would likely find a home somewhere

[shally]

2 positions for Lumsden, Nemo and Carter sounds good to me. i am intrigued by all of them.

someone has to back up Betts and someone has to back up Sellers.

i think that white and nemo are fighting for one spot and rock, carter and lumsden are fighting for another. they are not necessarily interchangable.

only carter has the size to be a short yardage back among the RB types and no one among lumsden, rock or carter looks or blocks like a fullback.

nemo is playing closer to the line than he has ever before. that has to mess with him.

[redwolf1218]

kenny watson made another teams roster and he is still there, i believe. rock would likely find a home somewhere
i really liked Kenny Watson and i'm glad he found a home elsewhere. do you think he'd make it here now?

[redwolf1218]

i think that white and nemo are fighting for one spot and rock, carter and lumsden are fighting for another. they are not necessarily interchangable.

only carter has the size to be a short yardage back among the RB types and no one among lumsden, rock or carter looks or blocks like a fullback.

nemo is playing closer to the line than he has ever before. that has to mess with him.
that is some good competition and it should make the team better.

[shally]

i really liked Kenny Watson and i'm glad he found a home elsewhere. do you think he'd make it here now?

that's a real good question... i do not think he would have beaten out betts, but he might have had enough to beat out rock.. maybe... i think it would have come down to whether his special teams play was as good as rocks

[Hr fan]

Great commentary on Warrick Holdman. I just cant get comfortable with him as our starting OLB. Its like having a dream team on defense and somehow Chrsitian Laetnner cracked the starting five. The sooner Rocky steps up the better.

Sean and Marcus are gonna have moster years.

It may be unfair, but Jeff Posey looks better and better. Holdman may not be able to do it on the field anymore, and Rocky is a rookie and the 'Skins don't play rookies right away. Posey was average for his stats last year and knows GW's system. Probably an improvement over Holdman, and a solid if unspectacular vet that we may need just now.