Smoak Signals: Redskins News for Aug 8 [Archive]

smoak

08-08-2006, 05:51 AM

Redskins' Taylor fined but not suspended (Associated Press) (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/football/2020AP_FBN_Redskins_Taylor_Fined.html)

Redskins' Taylor Is Fined, Not Suspended (Washington Post) (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/07/AR2006080701017.html)

Patten Returns After Viral Meningitis (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/07/AR2006080701375.html)

Northern Colorado rookie Reed Doughty received an earful from Gregg Williams, assistant head coach-defense, during the scrimmage with Baltimore.

Doughty was beaten by tight end Rob Abiamiri on goal line defense and Aric Williams, who was signed as an undrafted free agent by Philadelphia last year but did not play for the Eagles, was beaten on a fade pattern on the next defensive series.

"Some of the young guys have to understand that this isn't NFL Europe where you get beat on a jump-ball fade," Williams said. "This is not Northern Colorado where you get run over by a tight end in the red zone on a pass route. Those kind of people, that's just the learning curve."

Days earlier in practice, Doughty was bulldozed by 6-foot-3, 278-pound fullback Mike Sellers.

However, offensive coaches pleased with the progress of Jesse Lumsden, the Canadian running back who rushed for 32 yards on six carries in the scrimmage.

Gibbs' only problem: Pacifying his players (http://washtimes.com/sports/20060808-011825-2540r.htm)
Let's do the math.
Clinton Portis carried the ball 352 times for the Redskins last season -- and caught 30 passes to boot.
Ladell Betts had 99 (how I love this term) touches.
Santana Moss had 84 receptions.
Chris Cooley had 71.
Rock Cartwright, David Patten and Mike Sellers, meanwhile, were all thrown their respective crumbs.
And now the offense has added the hungry hands of Brandon Lloyd (48 catches last year with the 49ers) and Antwaan Randle El (35 with the Steelers).

Taylor fined for misdemeanors (The Washington Times) (http://washtimes.com/sports/20060808-011826-9928r.htm)

Lineman Wynn happy to be playing (http://www.roanoke.com/sports/profootball/wb/wb/xp-77271)

Nation's Largest Jewish Organization Urges President of Washington Redskins to Change Name (http://rac.org/Articles/index.cfm?id=674&pge_prg_id=7037)

Enjoy!!

AliBabba

08-08-2006, 07:00 AM

SMOAK SIGNALS ... LOL!!

AliBabba

08-08-2006, 07:07 AM

SMOAK SIGNALS ... LOL!!
I've been reading on this board a/b how well Doughty has supposedly been playing... GW doesn't sound like he's too impressed though. Are we a lock to carry 4 Safety's?? If not, could we see a scenario where we have ST, Arch, and Pierson along with 6 CBs such as Springs, Los, Wright, Patterson, Morton, and maybe somebody like Eubanks sneaks a spot?

I mean he is calling Doughty out individually, before the 1st preseason game, that can't be that good. The even bigger issue is that these problems happened on the goal line. Not that you can really fault a DB for getting trucked by the Caveman, but isn't hitting and stopping the run supposed to be his strong point as well?

IowaSkinsFan

08-08-2006, 07:08 AM

I'd be willing to bet that Doughty still makes this squad.

Patrick

08-08-2006, 07:14 AM

[QUOTE=smoak
Nation's Largest Jewish Organization Urges President of Washington Redskins to Change Name (http://rac.org/Articles/index.cfm?id=674&pge_prg_id=7037)

Enjoy!![/QUOTE]

:banghead:

whitskins

08-08-2006, 07:17 AM

I've been reading on this board a/b how well Doughty has supposedly been playing... GW doesn't sound like he's too impressed though. Are we a lock to carry 4 Safety's?? If not, could we see a scenario where we have ST, Arch, and Pierson along with 6 CBs such as Springs, Los, Wright, Patterson, Morton, and maybe somebody like Eubanks sneaks a spot?

I mean he is calling Doughty out individually, before the 1st preseason game, that can't be that good. The even bigger issue is that these problems happened on the goal line. Not that you can really fault a DB for getting trucked by the Caveman, but isn't hitting and stopping the run supposed to be his strong point as well?

Typically it seems that GW actually calls out the guys he likes and wants to see improve, if he doesn't like you then he pretends you don't exist until you get cut.

And he's also mentioned many times since the draft and through training camp that he likes Doughty a lot. But he had a rough time in the scrimmage so I think GW just wants to motivate him. I would seriously doubt that Doughty gets cut.

And I don't see getting Truck Sticked by Sellers as a huge deal, Brian Dawkins is pretty good at stopping the run and Sellers ate the dude's lunch last year. If Reed Doughty, or mostly any defender in the NFL for that matter, want to tackle Sellers, they better have some help out there or aim right at his knees.

smoak

08-08-2006, 07:18 AM

I've been reading on this board a/b how well Doughty has supposedly been playing... GW doesn't sound like he's too impressed though. Are we a lock to carry 4 Safety's?? If not, could we see a scenario where we have ST, Arch, and Pierson along with 6 CBs such as Springs, Los, Wright, Patterson, Morton, and maybe somebody like Eubanks sneaks a spot?

I mean he is calling Doughty out individually, before the 1st preseason game, that can't be that good. The even bigger issue is that these problems happened on the goal line. Not that you can really fault a DB for getting trucked by the Caveman, but isn't hitting and stopping the run supposed to be his strong point as well?

My guess is that GW is breaking him down a little to build him back up. He did it with ST and CR. I distinctly remember both as rookies being left alone on a island until they finally got burned. I think GW knows that these kids come in and have no idea what they are in for and he wants to humble them early and often. I think Doughty will be fine in the long run, but it is a process.

smoak

08-08-2006, 07:23 AM

Wow, I know I am a big softie, but that article on Wynn was a nice little tug at the heart strings. It feels good to know that some players care about the organizationa and aren't just collecting a check.

"We consider Renaldo one of our leaders," Gibbs said. "Whenever I talk to the guys in the off-season or we have any concerns or problems, Renaldo is one of the people we talk to around here. He's always had the outlook of 'Hey, whatever I can do.' He's a valuable part of the team and he'll play as much as he has been playing. He just might have to play at several spots."

AliBabba

08-08-2006, 07:26 AM

Typically it seems that GW actually calls out the guys he likes and wants to see improve, if he doesn't like you then he pretends you don't exist until you get cut.

And he's also mentioned many times since the draft and through training camp that he likes Doughty a lot. But he had a rough time in the scrimmage so I think GW just wants to motivate him. I would seriously doubt that Doughty gets cut.

And I don't see getting Truck Sticked by Sellers as a huge deal, Brian Dawkins is pretty good at stopping the run and Sellers ate the dude's lunch last year. If Reed Doughty, or mostly any defender in the NFL for that matter, want to tackle Sellers, they better have some help out there or aim right at his knees.

Yeh, I actually can recall past instances of that now. You raise a good point, and maybe GW is doing this primarily b/c he thinks Doughty is worth the extra attention and effort. Still gotta be rough to hear "You aren't at North Colorado anymore" - in the papers.

whitskins

08-08-2006, 07:32 AM

Yeh, I actually can recall past instances of that now. You raise a good point, and maybe GW is doing this primarily b/c he thinks Doughty is worth the extra attention and effort. Still gotta be rough to hear "You aren't at North Colorado anymore" - in the papers.

Yeah that can't feel too good, but if he can't take it then I hope he never plays for Parcells. After missing a block in practice yesterday, BP yelled at Anthony Fasano, "You may not be tough enough to play this game."

Ouch...

smoak

08-08-2006, 07:35 AM

"You may not be tough enough to play this game."

It would be really difficult for me not to laugh after hearing this from a man with large breasts. :rolleyes:

AliBabba

08-08-2006, 07:37 AM

Yeah that can't feel too good, but if he can't take it then I hope he never plays for Parcells. After missing a block in practice yesterday, BP yelled at Anthony Fasano, "You may not be tough enough to play this game."

Ouch...
Very nice, Parcells has always had a way with words.... really knows how to use them in public and the media to lift his players spirits. What's gonna happen when he snaps at TO and calls him "she" or something like that this year? I don't see TO just shrugging that off, and I don't see BP going through a whole season without venting to the media a/b him.

... sit back and enjoy the ride, I never bought this, "he's good for at least one year" bit anyhow, that was the Eagles, Andy Reid, and Donovan McNabb. Those are people I had never heard really complain or whine ever before TO came to town .... Dallas, Jerry Jones, BP .... very different story.

smoak

08-08-2006, 07:38 AM

Another article:

Cooley's cry: 'Al-leluia' (http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20060808-011808-5727r.htm)

"I'm excited," he said, "because I've got that slow-tight end, can't-make-the-plays-downfield, can't-get-downfield reputation. But if I get more of those 60-yard catches like in Seattle last year, I'll get over that stigma, get the H-back title out of here, and have people believe I can be an explosive tight end in the NFL."

S.Taylor36

08-08-2006, 08:18 AM

Great Sean Taylor news. Now lets move forward.

chrisbcbu

08-08-2006, 09:19 AM

Skins' Cash wants test in football to be over (http://www.dailypress.com/sports/dp-94910sy0aug08,0,111178.story)

Label Fits Cooley (http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD%2FMGArticle%2FRTD_BasicArti cle&%09s=1045855935462&c=MGArticle&cid=1149189854914&path=%21sports%21redskins)

Fans waste no time in getting to midseason form (http://www.examiner.com/a-206493~Rick_Snider__Fans_waste_no_time_reaching__m id_year_form_.html)

here are a couple more.

smoak

08-08-2006, 09:32 AM

Label Fits Cooley (http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD%2FMGArticle%2FRTD_BasicArti cle&%09s=1045855935462&c=MGArticle&cid=1149189854914&path=%21sports%21redskins)

We need a catchy name for a Cooley cheerign section where we can have a sign and wigs. This guy is just plain cool and everything I would want to be if I were a player.... except that whole Broncos fan thing.

"I want to make it into a mullet, but the back has to be longer," Cooley said. "I had a mullet when I was about 10 years old, and it was a cool mullet. I was a Broncos fan, and my mom let me spike my hair and color it blue and orange for the Super Bowl. I was a John Elway fan. I always wanted to be a quarterback. I still want to be a quarterback.

"It's probably not going to work out that way, though."

RedskinsDave

08-08-2006, 09:34 AM

Well that's it, if the Rabbis want the Skins to change the name, I guess they should. HA HA HA HA HA.

shally

08-08-2006, 09:36 AM

shally

08-08-2006, 09:37 AM

Well that's it, if the Rabbis want the Skins to change the name, I guess they should. HA HA HA HA HA.

uhhh.. that would be a NO !

C-7

08-08-2006, 10:24 AM

No mention of Molnaro's knee injury? I heard on the radio he was carted off the field today.

smoak

08-08-2006, 10:52 AM

No mention of Molnaro's knee injury? I heard on the radio he was carted off the field today.

I just found this:

Knee Problems Plague Redskin's Roster Hopefuls (http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0806/350994.html)

C-7

08-08-2006, 10:54 AM

Just heard that a fight broke out between Jansen and Droughty after the latter tackled Sellers out of bounds.

smoak

08-08-2006, 11:00 AM

Just heard that a fight broke out between Jansen and Droughty after the latter tackled Sellers out of bounds.

I was listening to 980 and caught pieces of this conversation:

On 980, they had a reporter on who was covering the team's practice this morning and I caught a little...

Supposedly Sellers stiff-armed Doughty and then got tackled out of bounds which caused Jansen to jump into it. Then reportedly Golston jumped in for the defense and it started getting heated! Jansen was beat a couple times, but I didn't catch who was lined up over there?

Samuels continues to struggle with Carter and many think Carter is going to make a huge impact immediately. He has shown all kinds of speed and power and Samuels has really praised him.

AliBabba

08-08-2006, 11:03 AM

I was listening to 980 and caught pieces of this conversation:
That news on Carter has got me as excited as anything else. The thought of legit pass rush from the D-Line sends chills down my spine.

skinfan43

08-08-2006, 11:35 AM

Keino

08-08-2006, 12:18 PM

Speaking of the injury to Dennard Wilson (Keino's boy), we all know GW doesn't tolerate unproven players that can't stay on the field.

By the way Keino, this dude is the poster child for your term "camp fodder"...

Because he hurt his knee? Sure, thats why they brought him back.

I'll have you know thats my friend you are talking about. Whats the reason you are on Lumsden's tip?

AliBabba

08-08-2006, 12:22 PM

Because he hurt his knee? Sure, thats why they brought him back.

I'll have you know thats my friend you are talking about. Whats the reason you are on Lumsden's tip?
Sorry Keino ... tough luck again for your boy. Any idea how long he's supposed to be out this time? Is there a tear or anything serious like that, or just a muscle strain? Was it last year or the year before he broke his leg?

ryflan47

08-08-2006, 12:27 PM

Why does a rabbi want the Redskins to change their name?

Keino

08-08-2006, 12:45 PM

Sorry Keino ... tough luck again for your boy. Any idea how long he's supposed to be out this time? Is there a tear or anything serious like that, or just a muscle strain? Was it last year or the year before he broke his leg?

The article says a few weeks. I wasn't aware that he had hurt his knee, but that could explainhis lack of time in the scrimmage.

I want him to make the team, because I think he is a helluva player in addition to being my friend, but also because his brother (Who I know better than Dennard) is a Cowboys fan. Nothing would make me smile brighter than watching a Cowboys fan convert to the Redskins.

AliBabba

08-08-2006, 12:49 PM

The article says a few weeks. I wasn't aware that he had hurt his knee, but that could explainhis lack of time in the scrimmage.

I want him to make the team, because I think he is a helluva player in addition to being my friend, but also because his brother (Who I know better than Dennard) is a Cowboys fan. Nothing would make me smile brighter than watching a Cowboys fan convert to the Redskins.
That right there is as good a reason as any to cheer a guy on.

tbfoster1

08-08-2006, 01:02 PM

(http://www.dailypress.com/sports/dp-94910sy0aug08,0,111178.story)
Fans waste no time in getting to midseason form (http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD%2FMGArticle%2FRTD_BasicArti cle&%09s=1045855935462&c=MGArticle&cid=1149189854914&path=%21sports%21redskins)
.

This is linked to the Cooley article. Where is this article from, I always like reading about the fans especially if I was there.

skinfan43

08-08-2006, 01:16 PM

Because he hurt his knee? Sure, thats why they brought him back.

I'll have you know thats my friend you are talking about. Whats the reason you are on Lumsden's tip?
First off, I sure hope you don't take things we say about Skins players personally, you know as well as I do that scrutiny is a large part of what comes with the territory of an NFL player. I hope your friend makes a full recovery, I'm sure if he's your friend he's a fine person.

With regards to Lumsden, I've thought about it a bit more and here's my response:

Ever since I was a little kid, I wanted John Riggins' job someday. My own injury in high school (an on-field collision that resulted in an anyurism on my brain initially, that miraculously dissipated to scar tissue only) squashed that possibility, so I knew an NFL player wouldn't be option. But I really felt like it was possible back then, and it hurt to have to let that dream go. I was 6', 250lbs at the time, benched over 350 lbs and leg pressed over 1000lbs - I just LOVED to run people over, and was known for dragging tacklers and having deceptive speed (4.6/40, not bad for a big back)...much like Riggo (or Cooley these days)

Well, Lumsden has a bigger build for a back (6'2" 224 lbs), is fast (4.3/40), is Canadian (as am I, my Dad's entire side of the family hails from Montreal and Quebec), and even shares my initials (JL), LOL! That's what has me "on his tip" personally...

...And he has what appears to be a boatload of natural ability and physicality, as well as the desire to make it in the NFL. Gibbs, Byner and Saunders have all taken notice because of his exceptional play recently, and much like Rock's "Napoleon-height" (5'6") made him an underdog in many people's eyes, Lumsden's Canadian football pedigree made him an underdog as well. I guess I'm pulling for JL for all of these reasons... simply having the chance to go from relative obscurity to a contributor on my beloved Redskins is something I dreamed of many a night, and to have a guy so close to realizing such a similar dream is awesome and inspiring to me.
If he can protect the ball, stay healthy, and bust his a$$ on special teams like Gibbs and Smith have confirmed he has been so far, he just might make the '06 final roster - and I'd probably be as big of a supporter of him as CNY is of Rock, or as you would be of your friend Dennard if he made the final 53.

It's the "pulling for" certain players that makes sports a lot of fun, for whatever our reasons are...we've all been in positions where many thought we wouldn't succeed, but we persevered and did.
I'll be rooting for Lumsden this preseason... and what a thrill it must be for him to be around Gibbs and Saunders, his stellar teammates, and be producing like he has been. Starting Sunday, the intensity gets kicked up a notch, we'll start to see what he's really got when the games begin!

Jon Jansen is money

08-08-2006, 01:49 PM

The name change article is from 2000.

"WASHINGTONJune 19, 2000 — In a letter issued today, Rabbi David Sapersetin urged Daniel M. Snyder, President of the Washington Redskins to change its name."

bantu

08-08-2006, 02:20 PM

Even though the name-changing article is old, it still is an interesting debate. I for one would comply just fine if we had to change it. I think we as Washingtonians are intelligent enough to find a nickname that embodies the Redskins tradition we've built over the years. If there are those out there that feel our nickname is offensive, the organization should do the right thing.

BandWagon

08-08-2006, 02:23 PM

You know, I think I'm going to send that Rabbi a picture I took in Upstate NY. It was of a building that is used by native americans...kinda like a Masonic Lodge of sorts. On it they had the name of the place and indicated it was an organization of "Red Men". So when is this issue going to go away? We've heard time after time a tiny percentage think it's a slur and the vast majority do not.

Keino

08-08-2006, 02:40 PM

That right there is as good a reason as any to cheer a guy on.

His brother tells me they released him today.

Keino

08-08-2006, 02:42 PM

First off, I sure hope you don't take things we say about Skins players personally, you know as well as I do that scrutiny is a large part of what comes with the territory of an NFL player. I hope your friend makes a full recovery, I'm sure if he's your friend he's a fine person.

With regards to Lumsden, I've thought about it a bit more and here's my response:

Ever since I was a little kid, I wanted John Riggins' job someday. My own injury in high school (an on-field collision that resulted in an anyurism on my brain initially, that miraculously dissipated to scar tissue only) squashed that possibility, so I knew an NFL player wouldn't be option. But I really felt like it was possible back then, and it hurt to have to let that dream go. I was 6', 250lbs at the time, benched over 350 lbs and leg pressed over 1000lbs - I just LOVED to run people over, and was known for dragging tacklers and having deceptive speed (4.6/40, not bad for a big back)...much like Riggo (or Cooley these days)

Well, Lumsden has a bigger build for a back (6'2" 224 lbs), is fast (4.3/40), is Canadian (as am I, my Dad's entire side of the family hails from Montreal and Quebec), and even shares my initials (JL), LOL! That's what has me "on his tip" personally...

...And he has what appears to be a boatload of natural ability and physicality, as well as the desire to make it in the NFL. Gibbs, Byner and Saunders have all taken notice because of his exceptional play recently, and much like Rock's "Napoleon-height" (5'6") made him an underdog in many people's eyes, Lumsden's Canadian football pedigree made him an underdog as well. I guess I'm pulling for JL for all of these reasons... simply having the chance to go from relative obscurity to a contributor on my beloved Redskins is something I dreamed of many a night, and to have a guy so close to realizing such a similar dream is awesome and inspiring to me.
If he can protect the ball, stay healthy, and bust his a$$ on special teams like Gibbs and Smith have confirmed he has been so far, he just might make the '06 final roster - and I'd probably be as big of a supporter of him as CNY is of Rock, or as you would be of your friend Dennard if he made the final 53.

It's the "pulling for" certain players that makes sports a lot of fun, for whatever our reasons are...we've all been in positions where many thought we wouldn't succeed, but we persevered and did.
I'll be rooting for Lumsden this preseason... and what a thrill it must be for him to be around Gibbs and Saunders, his stellar teammates, and be producing like he has been. Starting Sunday, the intensity gets kicked up a notch, we'll start to see what he's really got when the games begin!

Well my reasons for wanting Dennard on the roster are entirely personal, so you will have to forgive me if I take offense at the joy you seemingly expressed about his injury. He was cut today from what I hear.

smoak

08-08-2006, 02:59 PM

The name change article is from 2000.

"WASHINGTONJune 19, 2000 — In a letter issued today, Rabbi David Sapersetin urged Daniel M. Snyder, President of the Washington Redskins to change its name."

My sincere apologies. For whatever reason, Google was pulling up a ton of article from as far back as '99!!!??? I filtered most, but guess I missed that one... But they had updates on Shayne Matthews, Spurrier, Marty, D. Gardener, etc... Really weird!?

That aside, I still thought it was funny that Jewish leaders would urge Danny to change the name. :)

Even though the name-changing article is old, it still is an interesting debate. I for one would comply just fine if we had to change it. I think we as Washingtonians are intelligent enough to find a nickname that embodies the Redskins tradition we've built over the years. If there are those out there that feel our nickname is offensive, the organization should do the right thing.

See, I think the symbol is one that honors Native Americans (as opposed to the Cleveland Indian mascot that is cartoon-ish). I would be depressed if we changed it as I am a fan of the Redskins and not a fan of "DC". Honestly, I hear all the time about Native Americans that are proud of local teams and I think there will always be a minority that is offended by things liek that. I am part Irish and a much lesser part Cherokee, and I think a drunken, brawling Irishman is much more offensive... But that is just me, and I understand that many other feel differently.

His brother tells me they released him today.

My sincere apologies my friend. That must be really frustrating for Dennard... Hopefully he doesn't lose heart or become discouraged and just works like hell to get a shot somewhere.

chrisbcbu

08-08-2006, 03:27 PM

This is linked to the Cooley article. Where is this article from, I always like reading about the fans especially if I was there.

my fault, i was reading a couple of articles at a time and mixed them up. It should be fixed now.

smoak

08-08-2006, 06:01 PM

980 Camp Update:

Brunell sat out the afternoon after being kicked in the calf, but more importantly, Lloyd sat out with a hip flexor!!???

whitskins

08-08-2006, 06:13 PM

980 Camp Update:

Brunell sat out the afternoon after being kicked in the calf, but more importantly, Lloyd sat out with a hip flexor!!???

Easy there, nothing to get super worked up about yet.

I mean it's not like Lloyd has missed five straight days of practice, is flying in his own personal training staff and hyperbolic chamber, and ruled himself out of our preseason opener without consulting his coach like some WRs in the NFC East... :)

smoak

08-08-2006, 06:16 PM

Easy there, nothing to get super worked up about yet.

I mean it's not like Lloyd has missed five straight days of practice, is flying in his own personal training staff and hyperbolic chamber, and ruled himself out of our preseason opener without consulting his coach like some WRs in the NFC East... :)

Not flying yet, but a hip fleor can be on of those nagging injuries that limits a player for awhile. Worth keeping an eye on... If I thought it was huge news, it would have gotten a thread.

skinfan43

08-08-2006, 07:25 PM

Well my reasons for wanting Dennard on the roster are entirely personal, so you will have to forgive me if I take offense at the joy you seemingly expressed about his injury. He was cut today from what I hear.
I just checked my post that got you fired up, Sean. I mentioned GW doesn't tolerate unproven players that can't stay on the field. That's just a fact that he's stated more than a few times. I also said that Wilson is the poster child for camp fodder. Considering the flack I've taken for the Lumsden Thread, you included, that statement shouldn't be viewed as "joy I seemingly expressed about his injury". I had no idea he was your friend, and would never take joy in someone's injuries, our team or otherwise. So now I understand that you did take it personally, and I apologize for my comment making you feel that way.:Peace:

Keino

08-08-2006, 08:39 PM

I just checked my post that got you fired up, Sean. I mentioned GW doesn't tolerate unproven players that can't stay on the field. That's just a fact that he's stated more than a few times. I also said that Wilson is the poster child for camp fodder. Considering the flack I've taken for the Lumsden Thread, you included, that statement shouldn't be viewed as "joy I seemingly expressed about his injury". I had no idea he was your friend, and would never take joy in someone's injuries, our team or otherwise. So now I understand that you did take it personally, and I apologize for my comment making you feel that way.:Peace:

No need to apologize, Im not fired up. But the obvious point to me is that why would they bring Dennard back in the first place if they didn't see something they liked?

They hype surrounding Lumsden was based on some 40 times and none of us had seen him play. I haven't given you any flack for buying into it, in fact the only flack I've given is over the repetetive posts in an effort to keep a thread alive which was beyond ridiculous.