Redskins interested in Posey

[RichardBradley]

http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=NFL&id=2301

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Personally, I would pass..but I wouldn't be against bringing him in for a try out..

[redskin_rich]

If the Skins bring him in, it likely would signal the end of Cris Clemons days as a Redskin.

[smoak]

For veterans minimum, I wouldn't care if the Skins brought in Uncle Fester.

[IowaSkinsFan]

If the Skins bring him in, it likely would signal the end of Cris Clemons days as a Redskin.

I would think it would be the end of Robert McCune whom was verbally lambasted by Dale Lindsey last week. Clemons has speed and that is a valuable commodity.

[redskin_rich]

I would think it would be the end of Robert McCune whom was verbally lambasted by Dale Lindsey last week. Clemons has speed and that is a valuable commodity.
I am doubting McCune makes it anyway. It was this little blurb that made me mention Clemons:
Marcus Washington is Washington's star at the SAM position, so Posey would likely be a nickel-rushing reserve if he landed in D.C.
That has been Clemons role for the last two years.

[GolfFreak]

Mixed feelings - it would be nice to keep developing the younger talent, but if they are not grasphing GW's system then get someone who is. And GW knows what Posey brings to the table.

[IowaSkinsFan]

I am doubting McCune makes it anyway. It was this little blurb that made me mention Clemons:
That has been Clemons role for the last two years.

I find it dubious that the only source reporting this is through a fantasy affiliation. Any other accreditation?

[CNYSkinFan]

If the Skins bring him in, it likely would signal the end of Cris Clemons days as a Redskin.
And possibly the placing of Spencer Havner on the PS. I say bring him in, it can't hurt to see what he can do.

I also think McCune is all but done.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

And possibly the placing of Spencer Havner on the PS. I say bring him in, it can't hurt to see what he can do.

I also think McCune is all but done.
Is the next "bad 2nd day draft choices" ready? ;) (I completely agree with you on the subject by the way)

Referring to what ISF was saying, what happened between McCune and Lindsey?

[Redskin4Life]

I would think it would be the end of Robert McCune whom was verbally lambasted by Dale Lindsey last week. Clemons has speed and that is a valuable commodity.
How is that any different than what GW did to Doughtery??? And no one thinks Reed's not going to make the 53...

[shally]

http://fantasyfootball.usatoday.com/content/player.asp?sport=NFL&id=2301

does this say they are not so sure about holdman ?

is it just looking for the best squad overall?

is it a courtesy to a player known to some of the coaches ?

[CNYSkinFan]

Is the next "bad 2nd day draft choices" ready? ;) (I completely agree with you on the subject by the way)

Referring to what ISF was saying, what happened between McCune and Lindsey?
If Molinaro and McCune Nemo and Manny are done (probably not all of them but I would venture 3 out of 4) then then 2nd day draft choices from 2004 (both of them) and from 2005 (all 4 of them) are complete bustaroonies.

Believe me it will make a nice article come next April. Then again it looks as if this year's crop (Montgomery, Dougherty, Golston) are doing pretty good with exception of Lefotu.

[CNYSkinFan]

How is that any different than what GW did to Doughtery??? And no one thinks Reed's not going to make the 53...
difference is that Doughty is getting Rookie hazing. McCune failed to reach the opening day 53 last year and only got on after injuries. The McCune switched positions and we drafted an LB (McIntosh) and resigned an LB (Holdman) both who are ahead of him on the draft chart.

McCune is in real trouble...too bad because he has a good story behind him.

[smoak]

If Molinaro and McCune Nemo and Manny are done (probably not all of them but I would venture 3 out of 4) then then 2nd day draft choices from 2004 (both of them) and from 2005 (all 4 of them) are complete bustaroonies.

Believe me it will make a nice article come next April. Then again it looks as if this year's crop (Montgomery, Dougherty, Golston) are doing pretty good with exception of Lefotu.

Ahhh, but if a draft pick is cut in the woods with nobody around to hear it, will he make a noise? ;)

[CNYSkinFan]

Ahhh, but if a draft pick is cut in the woods with nobody around to hear it, will he make a noise? ;)
yeah that noise is something like "Damn how am I going to pay rent next month?"

[bgforever]

difference is that Doughty is getting Rookie hazing. McCune failed to reach the opening day 53 last year and only got on after injuries. The McCune switched positions and we drafted an LB (McIntosh) and resigned an LB (Holdman) both who are ahead of him on the draft chart.

McCune is in real trouble...too bad because he has a good story behind him.

My point on sentimentalness is known. I like what they do off the field and their dedication on it, but if its not working, you have to put that sentiment aside and say adios.

[Patrick]

MAN ............ they better start getting interest in a few veteran O-linemen. Our 2n/3rd units are weak!!!

[CNYSkinFan]

MAN ............ they better start getting interest in a few veteran O-linemen. Our 2n/3rd units are weak!!!
no one is out there that is worth it.

[redskin_rich]

MAN ............ they better start getting interest in a few veteran O-linemen. Our 2n/3rd units are weak!!!
There was a quote by Bugel in the Wash Times article today saying there is nothing out there worth bringing in. With Molinaro out, they have Tyson Walter(a C/G) now playing Left Tackle with the 2nd team. We are dangerously thin at Tackle.

[shally]

If Molinaro and McCune Nemo and Manny are done (probably not all of them but I would venture 3 out of 4) then then 2nd day draft choices from 2004 (both of them) and from 2005 (all 4 of them) are complete bustaroonies.

Believe me it will make a nice article come next April. Then again it looks as if this year's crop (Montgomery, Dougherty, Golston) are doing pretty good with exception of Lefotu.

golston especially seems to have some fans among the coaches.. he needs to stay healthy as his main issue

[shally]

There was a quote by Bugel in the Wash Times article today saying there is nothing out there worth bringing in. With Molinaro out, they have Tyson Walter(a C/G) now playing Left Tackle with the 2nd team. We are dangerously thin at Tackle.

we were dangerously thin at tackle even with molinaro there... let us hope that turns out not to be a bad off season decision (to not go after a vet tackle).
that and the faith the team has placed in hall and especially frost are the 2 biggest worries i have had all off season

[CNYSkinFan]

There was a quote by Bugel in the Wash Times article today saying there is nothing out there worth bringing in. With Molinaro out, they have Tyson Walter(a C/G) now playing Left Tackle with the 2nd team. We are dangerously thin at Tackle.
yeah I am scratching my head on that. Everyone was so high on Jonta Woodard, why not give him some playing time now?

[joethefan]

Well, I guess now we'll know what the next positional draft thread will be written about....

[Dolla Bill]

When are the first wave of cuts? As far as OL depth, we may have to work out something there, and even then, trying to bring them in and learn the offense is a huge step back.

[Redblood]

If Molinaro and McCune Nemo and Manny are done (probably not all of them but I would venture 3 out of 4) then then 2nd day draft choices from 2004 (both of them) and from 2005 (all 4 of them) are complete bustaroonies.




Respectfully disagree! If they make it into their 2nd year, they are not a bust. Just replaced. The reason to draft every year is to find those gems to replace the "Others", no matter who they are, or where they were drafted. No one is a "bust" if they hang for two TCs.

For all we know, W. Holdman may have one foot out the door, and the other foot on a banana peel.

And of course, everyone agrees T. Jacobs will be replaced this year! But he has drawn a sizable paycheck for how many years now as a 2nd round choice of OBC ??? ("Old Ball Coach" for those new to the Forum) And he was never a bust. Just easily replaceable.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Respectfully disagree! If they make it into their 2nd year, they are not a bust. Just replaced. The reason to draft every year is to find those gems to replace the "Others", no matter who they are, or where they were drafted. No one is a "bust" if they hang for two TCs.

For all we know, W. Holdman may have one foot out the door, and the other foot on a banana peel.

And of course, everyone agrees T. Jacobs will be replaced this year! But he has drawn a sizable paycheck for how many years now as a 2nd round choice of OBC ??? ("Old Ball Coach" for those new to the Forum) And he was never a bust. Just easily replaceable.
Taylor Jacobs was never a bust???!!! Are you kidding? I really hope so...
And just "making" it to the 2nd year means nothing if you never actually contribute to the team's play on the field..

[danny's stogie]

MAN ............ they better start getting interest in a few veteran O-linemen. Our 2n/3rd units are weak!!!

Well, you could chop off one of Samuels' limbs and he'd still be on the field sunday.

Well, I guess now we'll know what the next positional draft thread will be written about....

The unpopular opinion...time to start looking into Jansen's replacement.

[CNYSkinFan]

Respectfully disagree! If they make it into their 2nd year, they are not a bust. Just replaced. The reason to draft every year is to find those gems to replace the "Others", no matter who they are, or where they were drafted. No one is a "bust" if they hang for two TCs.

For all we know, W. Holdman may have one foot out the door, and the other foot on a banana peel.

And of course, everyone agrees T. Jacobs will be replaced this year! But he has drawn a sizable paycheck for how many years now as a 2nd round choice of OBC ??? ("Old Ball Coach" for those new to the Forum) And he was never a bust. Just easily replaceable.
If you go to the Dictionary and look up bust you will see Taylor Jacobs picture there. Believe me he was a bust. A High 2nd round pick that did not make a significant contribution to the team. Big time bust.

As for your assertions aboiut playing two years let's review shall we:

2004 2nd Day Draft choices:

Mark Wilson: Played 1 year was cut the very next training camp.

Jim Molinaro: Stayed on the roster for two years but was inactive most of his time here despite being able to play Guard and Tackl and the redskins having major injuries at both.

And now 2005:

Manuel White: Spent a year on IR and there was speculation he would have been cut if he did not get hurt. Either he or NEmo will be cut this year.

Robert McCune: Did not make opening roster spent most of the year on PS until injuries forced his promotoion. Was beat out of roster spot by Zak keasay a UFA. Probably cut this year.

Jared Newberry: Cut in the first round of cuts in the same year as he was drafted.

Nehemiah Broughton: Could not beat out Rock never developed into the short yardage back evveryone hoped he would be. Spent the year almost exclusively Inactive as the 4th string RB.


As I said I hope 2006's class is better and it is the best class of the Gibbs II era. But 2004 and 2005 were really bad 2nd day draft decisions.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

The unpopular opinion...time to start looking into Jansen's replacement.
Or, more probably, Dockery's replacement..but in general I agree with going o-lline in the draft..I would go CB in the first round (we have one right?), and then almost all o-line and d-line.

[redskin_rich]

Well, you could chop off one of Samuels' limbs and he'd still be on the field sunday.



The unpopular opinion...time to start looking into Jansen's replacement.
I think we need to look for both replacements for the future. Samuels has an arthritic knee that has bothered him for years now.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

If you go to the Dictionary and look up bust you will see Taylor Jacobs picture there. Believe me he was a bust. A High 2nd round pick that did not make a significant contribution to the team. Big time bust.

As for your assertions aboiut playing two years let's review shall we:

2004 2nd Day Draft choices:

Mark Wilson: Played 1 year was cut the very next training camp.

Jim Molinaro: Stayed on the roster for two years but was inactive most of his time here despite being able to play Guard and Tackl and the redskins having major injuries at both.

And now 2005:

Manuel White: Spent a year on IR and there was speculation he would have been cut if he did not get hurt. Either he or NEmo will be cut this year.

Robert McCune: Did not make opening roster spent most of the year on PS until injuries forced his promotoion. Was beat out of roster spot by Zak keasay a UFA. Probably cut this year.

Jared Newberry: Cut in the first round of cuts in the same year as he was drafted.

Nehemiah Broughton: Could not beat out Rock never developed into the short yardage back evveryone hoped he would be. Spent the year almost exclusively Inactive as the 4th string RB.


As I said I hope 2006's class is better and it is the best class of the Gibbs II era. But 2004 and 2005 were really bad 2nd day draft decisions.
I think you could actually count the snaps played by all those players combined in a real NFL game and not get to 100.

[danny's stogie]

Or, more probably, Dockery's replacement..but in general I agree with going o-lline in the draft..I would go CB in the first round (we have one right?), and then almost all o-line and d-line.

Dockery was one of the most solid players on the team from week 6 on. I'd look to lock him up before looking for a replacement.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Dockery was one of the most solid players on the team from week 6 on. I'd look to lock him up before looking for a replacement.
That's the point..he needs to be locked up..I'm not 100% sure he won't look for a huge payday next year..if we resign him I completely agree with you.

[Redblood]

Taylor Jacobs was never a bust???!!! Are you kidding? I really hope so...
And just "making" it to the 2nd year means nothing if you never actually contribute to the team's play on the field..


If you draw a paycheck for one, two, or three years as a bench player, no matter NBA, MLB, or NFL, neither you nor your family consider you a bust.

You would be rich and out of work, but not "busted".

But all of us experts here in the Forum can spot "lack of heart and lack of talent" for sure. On that, I will agree with you. That lack of heart and talent translates to little PT, and eventually the pink slip.

Everyone of us would appreciate, or would have appreciated a cup of coffee at an NFL TC, and none of us would consider ourselves a bust. And neither would our families.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

If you draw a paycheck for one, two, or three years as a bench player, no matter NBA, MLB, or NFL, neither you nor your family consider you a bust.

You would be rich and out of work, but not "busted".

But all of us experts here in the Forum can spot "lack of heart and lack of talent" for sure. On that, I will agree with you. That lack of heart and talent translates to little PT, and eventually the pink slip.

Everyone of us would appreciate, or would have appreciated a cup of coffee at an NFL TC, and none of us would consider ourselves a bust. And neither would our families.
Ok I think I see the problem..you are interpreting the word "bust" in a much different way then everybody else is on this board...
Since I am not Taylor Jacobs nor am I a part of his family, I couldn't care less what that group of people considers him..I'm sure his mommy is very proud of him and cries when she sees him play, but I am a Redskins fan, and given his complete lack opf production in the time he was here, I consider him a bust..and I think everyone in the Redskins's organization does too.

[CNYSkinFan]

If you draw a paycheck for one, two, or three years as a bench player, no matter NBA, MLB, or NFL, neither you nor your family consider you a bust.

You would be rich and out of work, but not "busted".

But all of us experts here in the Forum can spot "lack of heart and lack of talent" for sure. On that, I will agree with you. That lack of heart and talent translates to little PT, and eventually the pink slip.

Everyone of us would appreciate, or would have appreciated a cup of coffee at an NFL TC, and none of us would consider ourselves a bust. And neither would our families.
So Ryan Leaf was not a bust because he was in the league for three years? I just don't buy that logic at all. What about Kwame Brown in the NBA?

[SpicyMcHaggis]

So Ryan Leaf was not a bust because he was in the league for three years? I just don't buy that logic at all. What about Kwame Brown in the NBA?
KB is a bust and an idiot as well.

[redskin_rich]

Desmond Howard, Rod Gardner and Michael Westbrook all had far more production than Taylor Jacobs and they are considered colossal busts by everyone. TJ is not even good enough to be considered a bust. How about just a waste.

[bigcmr]

Nehemiah Broughton: Could not beat out Rock never developed into the short yardage back evveryone hoped he would be. Spent the year almost exclusively Inactive as the 4th string RB. (quote)





I don't know if i would put Nemo on the bust list just yet. I mean the guy was a 7th round pick expectations were never too high. He made the team last year. He is competing in camp this year what more can you ask for out of a 7th rounder?

[Brokenstriker]

For veterans minimum, I wouldn't care if the Skins brought in Uncle Fester.

I think Fester is an interior lineman from the looks of things

[CNYSkinFan]

Nehemiah Broughton: Could not beat out Rock never developed into the short yardage back evveryone hoped he would be. Spent the year almost exclusively Inactive as the 4th string RB. (quote)





I don't know if i would put Nemo on the bust list just yet. I mean the guy was a 7th round pick expectations were never too high. He made the team last year. He is competing in camp this year what more can you ask for out of a 7th rounder?
I know many will disagree with me but my expectation for a 2nd day draft pick is a 3 year stay on the team and at the very least develop into a 2nd string type player. 3rd and 4th strings are filled by UFAs.

A bust as a pick is not just about the player but about the team drafting them as well. Broughton and White were brought into situations with alot of guys ahead of them. An argument can be made that the team is responsible for the bust by not evaluating their own squad. Same with McCune and Newberry.

But that is plainly my theory. many on here disagree with me on it

[danny's stogie]

I know many will disagree with me but my expectation for a 2nd day draft pick is a 3 year stay on the team and at the very least develop into a 2nd string type player. 3rd and 4th strings are filled by UFAs.

A bust as a pick is not just about the player but about the team drafting them as well. Broughton and White were brought into situations with alot of guys ahead of them. An argument can be made that the team is responsible for the bust by not evaluating their own squad. Same with McCune and Newberry.

But that is plainly my theory. many on here disagree with me on it

Present!

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I know many will disagree with me but my expectation for a 2nd day draft pick is a 3 year stay on the team and at the very least develop into a 2nd string type player. 3rd and 4th strings are filled by UFAs.

A bust as a pick is not just about the player but about the team drafting them as well. Broughton and White were brought into situations with alot of guys ahead of them. An argument can be made that the team is responsible for the bust by not evaluating their own squad. Same with McCune and Newberry.

But that is plainly my theory. many on here disagree with me on it
I don't. I completely agree. It seems pretty obvious that if you pick 2 players that play the same position in the later rounds (which we have a habit of doing), the odds of both of them making the team are pretty slim, unless the team has some kind of gaping hole in that position, which the Skins didn't and don't at RB/FB and LB.
I can understand doing that with the o-line and d-line, where a lack of depth can crush a team, so the more bodies you have the better, but not so much at other positions.

[redskin_rich]

I know many will disagree with me but my expectation for a 2nd day draft pick is a 3 year stay on the team and at the very least develop into a 2nd string type player. 3rd and 4th strings are filled by UFAs.

A bust as a pick is not just about the player but about the team drafting them as well. Broughton and White were brought into situations with alot of guys ahead of them. An argument can be made that the team is responsible for the bust by not evaluating their own squad. Same with McCune and Newberry.

But that is plainly my theory. many on here disagree with me on it
Your boy Rock was a 2nd day pick and has yet to develop into more than a 3rd stringer and probably never will.

[smoak]

Well, you could chop off one of Samuels' limbs and he'd still be on the field sunday.



The unpopular opinion...time to start looking into Jansen's replacement.

??????????

Jansen has shown a lot more in his career in terms of playing injured???

[danny's stogie]

??????????

Jansen has shown a lot more in his career in terms of playing injured???

Whoa smoak, both Jansen and Samuels have played through a lot of pain -- I can't even remember the last game either of them missed that didn't involve the Jon Jansen travesty of '04. But I don't know whether it was getting back to form and regaining some mobility after the knee injury, but Jansen didn't look so hot last season. He needs to reprove himself in my eyes -- he's still solid, but he wasn't the force he once was. If he isn't back up to that level, considering his age, it might be time to start grooming the replacement.

[Brokenstriker]

overloaded at WR ... maybe a trade for a back-up NFL caliber O-Lineman?

Patton for someone?
Jacobs for someone? (stop laughing!)

also RB ...
Cartwright for someone? (I know ... not going to happen)
can't make myself type Betts here ... so I won't

package deal?

[CNYSkinFan]

LMAO!!! I clearly remember your absence from the draft thread after we picked our second d-lineman..what you described is exactly what I thought was going on at your house at that precise moment...high comedy!
yeah I had to refrain from typing or risk being banned not just from hr but possibly from the internet as well.

[smoak]

I know many will disagree with me but my expectation for a 2nd day draft pick is a 3 year stay on the team and at the very least develop into a 2nd string type player. 3rd and 4th strings are filled by UFAs.

A bust as a pick is not just about the player but about the team drafting them as well. Broughton and White were brought into situations with alot of guys ahead of them. An argument can be made that the team is responsible for the bust by not evaluating their own squad. Same with McCune and Newberry.

But that is plainly my theory. many on here disagree with me on it

And some adamantly disagree with you to the point where we are worried for you... :D

You also have to factor in undrafted FAs. To me, they are part of the story from each draft as well. Frankly, I think the draft should go back to being 10-12 rounds with NONE of this supplemental pick garbage.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

overloaded at WR ... maybe a trade for a back-up NFL caliber O-Lineman?

Patton for someone?
Jacobs for someone? (stop laughing!)

also RB ...
Cartwright for someone? (I know ... not going to happen)
can't make myself type Betts here ... so I won't

package deal?
I think the only tradeble guy would be Patten...because Betts is a FA at the end of the year, Cartwright is a 3rd string RB after all, and Jacobs...:banghead: .....
Honestly, if someone offered us a pretty good o-lineman in exchange for Patten, I would do it.

[CNYSkinFan]

overloaded at WR ... maybe a trade for a back-up NFL caliber O-Lineman?

Patton for someone?
Jacobs for someone? (stop laughing!)

also RB ...
Cartwright for someone? (I know ... not going to happen)
can't make myself type Betts here ... so I won't

package deal?
I just don't see many people wanting to trade during TC. They will wait for the cuts, as will we. Backup OL are a high priced commodity. Superflous RBs and WRs are not. We would have to trade draft picks to get one and high draft picks to boot.

I rather us go with the guys we got and hope they don't get too banged up this year.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

yeah I had to refrain from typing or risk being banned not just from hr but possibly from the internet as well.
Maybe even from the world...

[smoak]

LMAO!!! I clearly remember your absence from the draft thread after we picked our second d-lineman..what you described is exactly what I thought was going on at your house at that precise moment...high comedy!

I tried warning him that we were coming out of the draft with at least one but very possibly two DTs. When you get into that second day and you really need to fill a position, you have to throw numbers at it and let the cream rise to the top.

[danny's stogie]

I think we could have used one of our choices on OL instead of DT and then found a vet DL guy out there to take the rookie's spot for one year. It is easier to find decent backup DT then OL IMO

Both positions had pretty slim pickins this offseason and I definitely wouldn't classify one position as having more available talent than the other. In general it's tough to find 300 pound bodies that can move.

[CNYSkinFan]

And some adamantly disagree with you to the point where we are worried for you... :D

You also have to factor in undrafted FAs. To me, they are part of the story from each draft as well. Frankly, I think the draft should go back to being 10-12 rounds with NONE of this supplemental pick garbage.
Well i do think we do a good job at UFAs and personnell overall...but 2nd day drafting is our Achille's heel. We get that down and we will build team's that are truly wonderful and deep.

BTW that just makes my whole point about 2nd day picks stronger. There are less draft picks and the talent level SHOULD be higher. The people picked should contribute more to the team.

But we are getting ahead of ourselves. You never know White or Nemo could make the squad this year and be our backup FB..>That would make 2005 not a total waste.

[danny's stogie]

Well i do think we do a good job at UFAs and personnell overall...but 2nd day drafting is our Achille's heel. We get that down and we will build team's that are truly wonderful and deep.

BTW that just makes my whole point about 2nd day picks stronger. There are less draft picks and the talent level SHOULD be higher. The people picked should contribute more to the team.

But we are getting ahead of ourselves. You never know White or Nemo could make the squad this year and be our backup FB..>That would make 2005 not a total waste.

Please elaborate Dustin, this makes absolutely no sense. Because the draft is shortened from 12 rounds to 7 the players in rounds 4-7 are suddenly more talented than they were when there were 12 rounds?

[smoak]

Well i do think we do a good job at UFAs and personnell overall...but 2nd day drafting is our Achille's heel. We get that down and we will build team's that are truly wonderful and deep.

BTW that just makes my whole point about 2nd day picks stronger. There are less draft picks and the talent level SHOULD be higher. The people picked should contribute more to the team.

But we are getting ahead of ourselves. You never know White or Nemo could make the squad this year and be our backup FB..>That would make 2005 not a total waste.

I don't want to get too far off track, but:

IMO, UFA is part of day two. I just think your expectations are two high... The Redskins probably keep a lower % of picks b/c they sign a higher % of FAs than most teams.

# of picks has nothing to do with the talent level??? The 100th overall pick is no better compared to his peers than he was 20 years ago??? Its just that insteaad about hearing a success story about an 11th rounder, you now hear it about an UFA. Maybe I am missing your point, but I don't see how the talent pool is higher at all??? Sounds insane to me. With expansion and all the supplemental picks, a fourth rounder today really was probably more like a seventh rounder 20 years ago. Therefor it can be argued the talent pool is THINNER!??

Yes, we are getting ahead of ourselves.

[CNYSkinFan]

2nd day draft picks as a group are more talented since we are talking about players drawon from rounds 4-7 instead of players drawn from rounds 4-12. Overall the subset should have a higher talent and you should expect more from the entire subset.

[smoak]

Please elaborate Dustin, this makes absolutely no sense. Because the draft is shortened from 12 rounds to 7 the players in rounds 4-7 are suddenly more talented than they were when there were 12 rounds?

Yeah, I am startng to worry about him???

[CNYSkinFan]

And there is a tendency among some fans to discount our 7th round draft picks because it is the last round of the draft. When the draft was longer a 7th round draft pick was not looked on (by fans) as camp fodder as some seem to do on here. My point is that there is plenty of talent in the 2nd day that most or all of your draft picks should contribute to the team. At the very least half. If Nemo, Molinaro, Mcune, and White end up leaving this year then we are batting 0 for 6 over the last two years and still have problems in oline depth.

[smoak]

And there is a tendency among some fans to discount our 7th round draft picks because it is the last round of the draft. When the draft was longer a 7th round draft pick was not looked on (by fans) as camp fodder as some seem to do on here. My point is that there is plenty of talent in the 2nd day that most or all of your draft picks should contribute to the team. At the very least half. If Nemo, Molinaro, Mcune, and White end up leaving this year then we are batting 0 for 6 over the last two years and still have problems in oline depth.

Just because we have realistic expectations doesn't mean we are "discounting" seventh rounders?? You think they should become solid backups, but the numbers don't agree with you. Most seventh rounders are out of the league in 3-4 years.

We'll settle this the last weekend before the season opens.

[danny's stogie]

2nd day draft picks as a group are more talented since we are talking about players drawon from rounds 4-7 instead of players drawn from rounds 4-12. Overall the subset should have a higher talent and you should expect more from the entire subset.

Strength in numbers. The probability of finding a contributing player in the later rounds gets increasingly smaller. Suppose for example:

round 4 (.20) 5 (.10) 6 (.07) 7 (.06) 8 (.05) 9 (.04) 10 (.03) 11 (.02) 12 (.01)

A) with 7 rounds, probability of finding a contributing player = P(4)+P(5)+P(6)+P(7)

B) w/ 12 rounds, probability of finding a contributing player = P(4)+P(5)+....+P(12)

A < B

[redskin_rich]

And there is a tendency among some fans to discount our 7th round draft picks because it is the last round of the draft. When the draft was longer a 7th round draft pick was not looked on (by fans) as camp fodder as some seem to do on here. My point is that there is plenty of talent in the 2nd day that most or all of your draft picks should contribute to the team. At the very least half. If Nemo, Molinaro, Mcune, and White end up leaving this year then we are batting 0 for 6 over the last two years and still have problems in oline depth.
There were less teams and no free agency back when the draft was longer, so in reality, late rounders were much more important then than now.

[CNYSkinFan]

Just because we have realistic expectations doesn't mean we are "discounting" seventh rounders?? You think they should become solid backups, but the numbers don't agree with you. Most seventh rounders are out of the league in 3-4 years.

We'll settle this the last weekend before the season opens.
Well I would be happy with 3-4 years. We aren't getting even that.

And your right we just won't know until the last weekend of the pre-season. And probably not until after next season.

[joethefan]

There were less teams and no free agency back when the draft was longer, so in reality, late rounders were much more important then than now.


hey rich ..had a great time with ya on Saturday.....

[redskin_rich]

hey rich ..had a great time with ya on Saturday.....
Likewise! Check out the FAD pictures thread at the bottom of the page or it may be on page 2 now. We were worried about you, did you get your van running?

[LATrueRedskin]

I knew Coach Williams would at least have a look at Posey, due to their ties in Buffalo and Williams' ability to turn journey men into monsters on the field. I agree that if we bring him in, that's showing a lot about out depth at linebacker. I think Posey would be a nice veteran for this team.

[BurgundyNGold]

For veterans minimum, I wouldn't care if the Skins brought in Uncle Fester.
Uncle Fester has no lateral quickness. He couldn't play tht weak side which is where we would need him.

[RichardBradley]

Uncle Fester has no lateral quickness. He couldn't play tht weak side which is where we would need him.


good one.......


Seriously who cares when players were drafted ? If this guy is better than who we have than I am all for it. Greg Williams knows who he wants to represent him on the field>

[Patrick]

Uncle Fester has no lateral quickness. He couldn't play tht weak side which is where we would need him.

should be looking at Lurch (?sp) anyway ........... :D

[colkurtz]

I think our expectations of the lower round draft picks is too high. The chances of lower round picks making a team - any team - are very, very small. Many other teams draft these guys because they are cheap. If they can contribute to the ST, excellent. Every once in awhile a lower pick rises up to actually play - great . However, people tend to over-estimate the number that actually do anything in their short careers.

Studies of first and second round picks show only a third are on the team after a few years. I suggest rounds 4-7 are probably less 5-10%.

Low draft picks are usually a very inexpensive pool of players that is constantly refreshed, with new inexpensive draft picks. I wish we were drafting better in the lower rounds, but the low success rate is standard across the NFL, I bet.

[Patrick]

I think our expectations of the lower round draft picks is too high. The chances of lower round picks making a team - any team - are very, very small. Many other teams draft these guys because they are cheap. If they can contribute to the ST, excellent. Every once in awhile a lower pick rises up to actually play - great . However, people tend to over-estimate the number that actually anything.

Studies of first and second round picks show only a third are on the team after a few years. I suggest rounds 4-7 are probably less 5-10%.

Low draft picks are usually a very inexpensive pool of players that is constantly refreshed, with new inexpensive players. I wish we were drafting better in the lower rounds, but the low success rate is standard across the NFL, I bet.

It would interest if there were some data on the % of players who make it onto a team base round picked.

[silverspring]

i think a lot of it is a matter of space restrictions that hold back the later round draft guys.

First of all if our practice squad could be twice as big and the players could be kept on there for more then one year i think teams would have the time they need to transform a developmental prospect into a contributor. Or maybe there could be a separate practice squad that are never elgible for the actual active roster. Either way if there was a way to hold on to developmental prospects and train them in house without sacrificing the few roster spots available things would change. In fact a change like that might change the whole sport because all of the sudden there would be more of a focus on development then getting near finished products from the draft.

It would increase the pool of potential players and you would probably see player salaries go down. It seems like salaries are so high now because there is only a small group of players that are able to transition from college to the nfl and compete immediately and even if you count players that take a single year of transition time to becoming nfl contributors it is still a small select group of players. I think it is too bad that the rules don't encourage more in house development. It just doesn't make sense though, when i look at how tight our roster is this year, there are tons of guys i think we would probably like to hang on to and develop but we can't cause we need every spot we can get.

[colkurtz]

It would interest if there were some data on the % of players who make it onto a team base round picked.

Yeah, i can't remember where I read about the first and second round success rate (33%), but it puts into perspective all the draft hype. I suspect the 4-7 draft success rate is really low.

[smoak]

It would interest if there were some data on the % of players who make it onto a team base round picked.

We are going to pull something together over the next couple weeks breaking players into categories based on their contributions.

[shally]

We are going to pull something together over the next couple weeks breaking players into categories based on their contributions.

i can tell you we have more players (just raw numbers, not percentages) who were true free agents over 2nd day draft picks.. that has been so for quite some time.

[HanburgerBum]

we were dangerously thin at tackle even with molinaro there... let us hope that turns out not to be a bad off season decision (to not go after a vet tackle).
that and the faith the team has placed in hall and especially frost are the 2 biggest worries i have had all off season


Shally, you are right that tackle and place kicking are worries this season. But, please don't give the punter another second of thought. I guarantee that won't be a problem, whoever is going to do the punting. Some teams have spent high draft picks on a punter in the past, but that makes no sense. There is not enough of a difference between the top and the bottom punters in the League to amount to a hill of beans.

All any team would need is a guy who can average about 38-42 yds and doesn't kick linedrives. I hope the Skins punter this season ranks last statistically (that happened in their last SB season).

[smoak]

i can tell you we have more players (just raw numbers, not percentages) who were true free agents over 2nd day draft picks.. that has been so for quite some time.

to me that says we do a good job convincing the right UDFAs to come to Washington. Keep in mind, that my theory was never that we were a great drafting team, but rather I was tired of the "chicken littles" who ripped every pick b/c they player wasn't on THEIR list (or the list of some internet website/magazine).

[smoak]

Whoa smoak, both Jansen and Samuels have played through a lot of pain -- I can't even remember the last game either of them missed that didn't involve the Jon Jansen travesty of '04. But I don't know whether it was getting back to form and regaining some mobility after the knee injury, but Jansen didn't look so hot last season. He needs to reprove himself in my eyes -- he's still solid, but he wasn't the force he once was. If he isn't back up to that level, considering his age, it might be time to start grooming the replacement.

See, I disagree. I thought Jansen looked fantastic considering he was playing without thumbs. He wasn't perfect, but that right side (before Thomas went out) was stronger than the left IMO. Allen for whatever reason tore up Jansen, but Rice tore up Samuels (although the replay seemed to show that Royal was at least supposed to be helping on the one play). Don't get me wrong, I love both guys and think they are the best pair in the division.

[redskin_rich]

See, I disagree. I thought Jansen looked fantastic considering he was playing without thumbs. He wasn't perfect, but that right side (before Thomas went out) was stronger than the left IMO. Allen for whatever reason tore up Jansen, but Rice tore up Samuels (although the replay seemed to show that Royal was at least supposed to be helping on the one play). Don't get me wrong, I love both guys and think they are the best pair in the division.
Jansen struggled a bit in pass protection last year but he was just as good as ever in run blocking. I would bet that 80% of Portis' TD's and first downs occured on the right side.

[CNYSkinFan]

See, I disagree. I thought Jansen looked fantastic considering he was playing without thumbs. He wasn't perfect, but that right side (before Thomas went out) was stronger than the left IMO. Allen for whatever reason tore up Jansen, but Rice tore up Samuels (although the replay seemed to show that Royal was at least supposed to be helping on the one play). Don't get me wrong, I love both guys and think they are the best pair in the division.
I do think that Robert Royale's blocking, or lack therof hurt both Tackles. When you have a great pass rusher like Rice or a guy who is tearing you up like Allen you can give the tackle help with a TE, but Royal was little help to either all year long.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Has anyone seen any other links on this Posey story other than the USA today fantasy link? I don't think redskins.com has even commented on it.