Too many weapons

[silverspring]

On first instinct this seems to be a problem everyone wants to have. But i just don't agree. The only way I can rationalize having million dollar+ men ride the bench as a good thing is if we have an injury problem or we have no personnel needs.

I worry that it is hard for the qb and offense in general to get into a rhythm while being forced to spread the ball out so much. I mean we got guys like david patten riding the bench? We got 2 TEs with only one catch between them, and cooley was one of our best weapons last year. I want to get the ball in his hands more. We have a 3rd round pick in duckett who is riding the bench. I believe that establishing a running game works best when a running back can get into a rhythm like portis has done these last couple years. I realize tonight portis was probably limited because of his injury. But I worry if our running backs stay healthy how we can fairly give portis the ball 20+ times a game with betts, duckett, rock and even guys like sellers who are hoping for touches. It seems hard to rationalize activating all of them every game.

I wonder what practice is like. I mean yeah it sounds great that everyone gets a chance to rest. But cmon these guys aren't paid to rest. How can they practice and prepare and get in sync with all these plays with all these different players. And if we aren't going to use guys like patten or duckett then why on earth do we have them. We have 2 kickers that are struggling. We have quality depth issues all over our defense.

Does anyone really think we are going to be able to maximize using all these weapons? And I truly worry that if the losses continue the lockerroom attitude will go down the toilet as all these guys want their touches. I mean WRs are selfish by nature, right?

In all honesty i really like all these players and want them all on my team, but I just worry it is too much i can't see how we can use them all especially when we seem to have other dire needs. Is this line of thinking ridiculous?

[whitskins]

I don't think this line of thinking is ridiculous, but it is presumptuous. The offense had trouble punching it in in the red zone. We had the same problem at the beginning of last year. Right now, along with Portis, that is my biggest concern on the offense, and I think they'll both get straightened out soon.

It's a bit early to worry about guys getting sour about spreading the ball around or a lack of touches. Joe Gibbs is our head coach, I'll wait til there is some decent smoke before I get concerned about a fire.

[jporterweb]

Dude, relax. It's the first game. Its a new playbook. There's a lot of new guys. It will come...

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

i think having too many weapons becomes a problem if someone complains about not getting the ball enough. from what ive read, the offense doesnt always have a primary receiver and anyone can get the ball at any time. i understand the want to get your playmakers the ball, but they arent open, what can you do?

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I think it's more a question of who do you NOT have because you decided to have so many offensive weapons. For instance, right now I would gladly take what we are paying Lloyd and give it to Adam Vinatieri or any other good kicker.Or do the same with Patten and Betts/Duckett.
But you do raise a few interesting points. With all these players, it's going to be very very tricky to get people on any kind of streak during games, especially if Portis's carries turn from 10 to 20, like they should. And it's going to be impossible to keep everybody happy. That is just not possible when you have 1 RB who expects 20+ carries, 2 that expect anywhere from 5-10, 4 WRs that think of themselves as #2 WRs at worse, and a TE who had 70+ cathces last year. Someone is going to be pissed (I'm thinking Patten and one of the backup RBs) at the end of the season.

[dukeuch]

No offense, but I think this is one of the most ridiculous theories I have ever seen posted regarding football. We have a problem because we have too many good players and we can't figure out how best to use them? Boy, the Cardinals must really be pissed becuase they have two great wideouts, and now Edgerrin James in the backfield. How in the world has Peyton Manning survived with four good wideouts (and until this year, Edgerrin James). Denver's running game sure suffered last year when they just couldn't decide who should carry the ball more, Tatum Bell or Mike Anderson.

No, we might have a problem because we don't have enough good players. Our wideout situation is one of having one legitimate #1 recieve, and a bunch of other guys who MIGHT be #2-5 on other teams. You can't have enough good running bakcs. Pittsburgh didn't seem to mind the last few years having three guys who could be put in at anytime during the game.

I'm not panicking here, but i never thought we have too many good players at the skill positions. We have two, Portis and Moss, who clearly would be stars on other teams (and I'm still holding my breath on Moss), that's it.

[dukeuch]

ANd by the way, John Hall will lose more games for us than he wins. Can ANYBODY tell me why we are sticking with him? I mean, it's not like he's just having a bad run or some bad luck. He can't hit a 45 yarder. OUr play calling is afffected by the need to get to the 30 yard line before we kick a field goal.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

No offense, but I think this is one of the most ridiculous theories I have ever seen posted regarding football. We have a problem because we have too many good players and we can't figure out how best to use them? Boy, the Cardinals must really be pissed becuase they have two great wideouts, and now Edgerrin James in the backfield. How in the world has Peyton Manning survived with four good wideouts (and until this year, Edgerrin James). Denver's running game sure suffered last year when they just couldn't decide who should carry the ball more, Tatum Bell or Mike Anderson.

No, we might have a problem because we don't have enough good players. Our wideout situation is one of having one legitimate #1 recieve, and a bunch of other guys who MIGHT be #2-5 on other teams. You can't have enough good running bakcs. Pittsburgh didn't seem to mind the last few years having three guys who could be put in at anytime during the game.

I'm not panicking here, but i never thought we have too many good players at the skill positions. We have two, Portis and Moss, who clearly would be stars on other teams (and I'm still holding my breath on Moss), that's it.
You are still holding your breath on Moss?? 6 touches for 100 yards yesterday..1500+ yards last year..I think you can breathe man..
The problem is not having all those players, it's having to pay them all and keep them all happy. Would you rather be paying big bucks to our third receiver or to Vinatieri right now?
And by the way, none of the teams you mentioned had 3 RBs who want the ball, 4 WRs who do the same, and 1 TE who caught 70 balls last year. Plaxico left Pittsburgh because he wasn't getting the ball. ARE did the same.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

ANd by the way, John Hall will lose more games for us than he wins. Can ANYBODY tell me why we are sticking with him? I mean, it's not like he's just having a bad run or some bad luck. He can't hit a 45 yarder. OUr play calling is afffected by the need to get to the 30 yard line before we kick a field goal.
That is an excellent point, and what I've been saying throughout the preseason.

[dukeuch]

You are still holding your breath on Moss?? 6 touches for 100 yards yesterday..1500+ yards last year..I think you can breathe man..
The problem is not having all those players, it's having to pay them all and keep them all happy. Would you rather be paying big bucks to our third receiver or to Vinatieri right now?
And by the way, none of the teams you mentioned had 3 RBs who want the ball, 4 WRs who do the same, and 1 TE who caught 70 balls last year. Plaxico left Pittsburgh because he wasn't getting the ball. ARE did the same.

You are assuming that any number of these "great" skill players would be the #1 on another team. As I said before, only two have proven themselves so, (and I'm not dissing Cooley, I thinks he's really good and solid, and maybe a star, but one season does not a career make) the others may think they are that good, but they have not proven it. If we had a stud QB, there'd be plenty of ball to go around. What we have to pay them has nothing to do with what they do on the field. I agree we pay too much for too little, but expectations based on salary and skill are two different things. The original post in this thread spoke not of overpaying, but by virtue of having so many good players we have to spread the ball around, or practice time is too limited for everyone.

ALL RBs and WRs want the ball. Every team's RB and WR wants to start. If our skill players are so awesome and so deep, than we would not be talking about how Portis or Moss being out cripples our offense.

[dukeuch]

That is an excellent point, and what I've been saying throughout the preseason.

Just for the record, I've been saying so since the middle of last year, least anyone think I'm jumping on him because of one kick. I thought he was a great pickup when we first got him, but since then he has had some serious injuries (for a kicker) and shown no signs of returning to form, or even to returning to average.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

You are assuming that any number of these "great" skill players would be the #1 on another team. As I said before, only two have proven themselves so, (and I'm not dissing Cooley, I thinks he's really good and solid, and maybe a star, but one season does not a career make) the others may think they are that good, but they have not proven it. If we had a stud QB, there'd be plenty of ball to go around. What we have to pay them has nothing to do with what they do on the field. I agree we pay too much for too little, but expectations based on salary and skill are two different things. The original post in this thread spoke not of overpaying, but by virtue of having so many good players we have to spread the ball around, or practice time is too limited for everyone.

ALL RBs and WRs want the ball. Every team's RB and WR wants to start. If our skill players are so awesome and so deep, than we would not be talking about how Portis or Moss being out cripples our offense.
I don't think all our skill players are great. In fact, I think only 2 of them are, and 2 are very good. Moss and Portis, and Randle El and Cooley. Betts is a career backup, Duckett is too, Lloyd still has to have 1 1000 yard season, and Patten is almost finished IMO.
However, that does not take away the fact that these people want the ball, and as a matter of fact, should get the ball every once in a while or else it's pointless to have them. As I wrote during the preseason, confirming all the stats for these players from last year (even considering Patten only played a few games) is almost impossible, and that was before we picked up Duckett. And even with Manning things would not change. Brunell in fact spread the ball around nicely last night, but still, Lloyd, Patten, and Duckett were nowhere to be found, Cooley did nothing, Portis only got 10 carries, and nobody else touched the ball more than 7 or 8 times. Exactly where the 3 players that had 0 touches fit in is still a mistery to me.

[Patrick]

ANd by the way, John Hall will lose more games for us than he wins. Can ANYBODY tell me why we are sticking with him? I mean, it's not like he's just having a bad run or some bad luck. He can't hit a 45 yarder. OUr play calling is afffected by the need to get to the 30 yard line before we kick a field goal.

IF you have a high powered/scoring offense - Kicker's are needed to decide a game.

[hail2skins]

Philly doesn't have a problem spreading the ball around to a lot of players.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Philly doesn't have a problem spreading the ball around to a lot of players.
But Philly doesn't have a RB that should get 25 carries per game, didn't trade a 3rd round pick for a 3rd string RB, and isn't paying their first 4 receivers a combined 100 billion dollars.

[dukeuch]

I don't think all our skill players are great. In fact, I think only 2 of them are, and 2 are very good. Moss and Portis, and Randle El and Cooley. Betts is a career backup, Duckett is too, Lloyd still has to have 1 1000 yard season, and Patten is almost finished IMO.
However, that does not take away the fact that these people want the ball, and as a matter of fact, should get the ball every once in a while or else it's pointless to have them. As I wrote during the preseason, confirming all the stats for these players from last year (even considering Patten only played a few games) is almost impossible, and that was before we picked up Duckett. And even with Manning things would not change. Brunell in fact spread the ball around nicely last night, but still, Lloyd, Patten, and Duckett were nowhere to be found, Cooley did nothing, Portis only got 10 carries, and nobody else touched the ball more than 7 or 8 times. Exactly where the 3 players that had 0 touches fit in is still a mistery to me.

I agree with just about everything you say here, but I don't think any of it has to do with our problems on the field being attributable to "too many good players".

[dukeuch]

IF you have a high powered/scoring offense - Kicker's are needed to decide a game.

Not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing, but we don't have a high powered offense and our kicker was a factor in our losing, and perhaps cost us the game.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I agree with just about everything you say here, but I don't think any of it has to do with our problems on the field being attributable to "too many good players".
Last night, no. But in the long run, if they don't start to produce in some capacity, they will become unhappy. And the money invested in them could have perhaps been spent otherwise. For example, instead of trading for Lloyd, just get ARE which fixes the return game as well as the hole at the #2 receiver spot, keep the picks, sign Vinatieri and a better corner than Wright. But it's just an example, and I don't want to judge Lloyd after just one game. Or another example: trade Betts or Patten or both for whatever you can get, because especially those 2 run the risk of becoming useless fast.

[helimech24]

Not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing, but we don't have a high powered offense and our kicker was a factor in our losing, and perhaps cost us the game.True, John Hall did cost us the game, but as far as having a high powered offense, that is yet to be seen because they are still learning the playbook and each others strengths in this system. It is way to eary to say that we don't have a high powered offense. Our team will get into a better rythem next week. This only one game, and not the season. They showed a stat last night that Gibbs was 0-5, now 0-6, in Monday night openers. Our offense is going to be fine.

As far as having to many good players, it gives us great trade bait when another team has players go down. Not only that, I am sure that all these players understood what they were getting into when they came here. All these players will get a chance to prove themselves and their worth on the field. If they don't do well, we have other players that can step in and get the job done. That is a very good situation to be in.

[Patrick]

True, John Hall did cost us the game, but as far as having a high powered offense, that is yet to be seen because they are still learning the playbook and each others strengths in this system. It is way to eary to say that we don't have a high powered offense. Our team will get into a better rythem next week. This only one game, and not the season. They showed a stat last night that Gibbs was 0-5, now 0-6, in Monday night openers. Our offense is going to be fine.

As far as having to many good players, it gives us great trade bait when another team has players go down. Not only that, I am sure that all these players understood what they were getting into when they came here. All these players will get a chance to prove themselves and their worth on the field. If they don't do well, we have other players that can step in and get the job done. That is a very good situation to be in.

This is a point that I hope will be the theme to our season. As we struggle through the early part of our season I HOPE the offense develops in the new system. Gibbs saw something in Saunder's and his system - We just got to hang on for the ride (BAD and hopefully soon to be GOOD)