This is what Gibbs does.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Some people seem to be complaining about the final decision of the game, the 4th-and-1 that Hall kicked on. That was the kind situation that only Joe Gibbs will handle on gameday - not Saunders, not Williams, not anyone else. And it was absolutely, positively the right call. Yes, it would have been nice to kick from a closer distance. But when you have one play to either take a shot at a tie or risk not having a shot at all, you take your shot. You must at least be able to attempt to tie the game. It's that simple. I agonized the miss as much as anyone else here, but I'd back up Gibbs' decision 1,000 more times.

And if you watched the angle of the kick, you know it would have still missed from five yards closer, anyway.

[akhhorus]

And its hard to try a running play with 17 seconds left and no timeouts, especially to get out of the jumbo package into either a fg or passing package.

[helimech24]

Some people seem to be complaining about the final decision of the game, the 4th-and-1 that Hall kicked on. That was the kind situation that only Joe Gibbs will handle on gameday - not Saunders, not Williams, not anyone else. And it was absolutely, positively the right call. Yes, it would have been nice to kick from a closer distance. But when you have one play to either take a shot at a tie or risk not having a shot at all, you take your shot. You must at least be able to attempt to tie the game. It's that simple. I agonized the miss as much as anyone else here, but I'd back up Gibbs' decision 1,000 more times.

And if you watched the angle of the kick, you know it would have still missed from five yards closer, anyway.I am total agreement here. There is no way you go for it on 4th down just to get a little closer. There are way to many things that could happen. A fumble, int., failure to make the 1st down. With all of that, I would rather just put it on John Halls foot.

[Biggie]

It was the right call. Wrong kicker, but definately the right call.

[RedskinsDave]

Agreed. You can't run another play there. Could you imagine the hysteria had they tried and ran out of time?!!

[Skinz4lyfe]

You are not serious to consider going for it even if it is 4th and 1, when you are already in FG position. Anything could have happened but we did not have any time outs. That was absolutely, positively the right call in that position.

[wewantdallas]

Yeah, obviously the right call. I was arguing with a drunk in the bathroom about this after the game. "Why didn't they go for it, why'd they let him kick it?" he kept saying...

I said, "Because he's a professional friggin' kicker and that's a kick he should be able to make."

If they'd had a timeout, I think he would've probably gone for it, but I'm not sure. Sad thing was, from my angle, it seemed like the kick was good and I was celebrating briefly before the horrible reality set in. Reminded me of the Portis TD against Green Bay in 2004 that would've won the game but was called back because of a penalty.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I really don't see how in the world anybody could think of going for it in that situation. Not even playing Madden.

[bgforever]

I thought the kick was slightly, just slightly blocked or "swirly" winded, because of the appearance of a sudden gust. At the time of the game, the force of wind was in the upper levels, coming in off the coast, due to tropical depression prevailing in the northeast.

[silverspring]

pretty tough to dispute the call, as you say all the alternatives stink. But it must have been a tough one when you know your kicker struggled all pre-season and now you are forcing him to win the game from 48 yards out.

THis call shouldn't really matter though, because the point is we lost the game long before this call had to be made.

[Dolla Bill]

I thought the kick was slightly, just slightly blocked or "swirly" winded, because of the appearance of a sudden gust. At the time of the game, the force of wind was in the upper levels, coming in off the coast, due to tropical depression prevailing in the northeast.


Thank you Al Roker. :lol1: j/k

I agree with the call, it was the right one. If he had made it, then we would be in a state of euphoria right now. Its one of those things.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

pretty tough to dispute the call, as you say all the alternatives stink. But it must have been a tough one when you know your kicker struggled all pre-season and now you are forcing him to win the game from 48 yards out.

THis call shouldn't really matter though, because the point is we lost the game long before this call had to be made.
Actually this is not true. We certainly did not win it before that call, but with either Vinatieri or Longwell, both of whom were available in free agency, I would have been pretty sure we could have gotten the game to overtime.

[C-7]

Actually this is not true. We certainly did not win it before that call, but with either Vinatieri or Longwell, both of whom were available in free agency, I would have been pretty sure we could have gotten the game to overtime.



Didn't Longwell miss a kick of smilar length a few minutes earlier? It also seemed to be pulled by the wind.

[silverspring]

Actually this is not true. We certainly did not win it before that call, but with either Vinatieri or Longwell, both of whom were available in free agency, I would have been pretty sure we could have gotten the game to overtime.

True, true. But the way i see it is we got outplayed all game. So it isn't fair to even consider blaming the game on a single call, or single mistake. There were just too many problems to focus on one.

[skinfanjon]

Some people seem to be complaining about the final decision of the game, the 4th-and-1 that Hall kicked on. That was the kind situation that only Joe Gibbs will handle on gameday - not Saunders, not Williams, not anyone else. And it was absolutely, positively the right call. Yes, it would have been nice to kick from a closer distance. But when you have one play to either take a shot at a tie or risk not having a shot at all, you take your shot. You must at least be able to attempt to tie the game. It's that simple. I agonized the miss as much as anyone else here, but I'd back up Gibbs' decision 1,000 more times.

And if you watched the angle of the kick, you know it would have still missed from five yards closer, anyway.

I can't imagine the thought of going for it in that situation even crossed his mind. It's a no-brainer decision to attempt a FG to tie. The unfortunate reality of the situation is Hall might make that kick 3 out of 10 times. Those are not good odds.

[bgforever]

I never once believed that Joe Gibbs doesn't test his players in certain games. Like more of a glorified preseason test game, since its the regular season anyway. He gets to see them in real prime time situations, without waiting for end of the game. Maybe a prelude to something more later? Sure you want the win, but with so many players just making it back to 100%, they are now far more ready for Dallas, than they actually were for Minnesota. yeah the non-TD's were the fluke of the game, for all concerned, but from where we sit now till season's end, there is far more pickings to be had. This one game is worth its weight in gold for standings, yes, and if a winning record, possibly homefield. However...

If want your team to stand up and fly right on a much higher level, faster, you work them into shape, with a regular season game, though you definitely didn't plan the loss, - you still needed to do this, because once past this, this team is far better than we first thought from that point. Just has to ring close to true, because when this happens, with the team and all, how come it all happens with all three parts of the team AND the coaches?

Its not like because Rogers had a bad night, the WR's for the Skins, had to, or the RB's didn't get as much, just because the DL only had one sack.
Yes, look at what they did do, it lets you know we are on to something far bigger! :) (sacks against Brunell, number of penalties, Returns for TD's, we weren't even where we could be BUT,.

we were there 5 times!!!!
we still had a chance to tie it, after all the crap we did, kept the Vikings on ice for a long time from our D, even though they had struggles and the WATCTHTOWER light was as brilliant as ever! ARE and Moss when they DID catch, Ports DID show up and MW, Grif did what they do best!

[whistleandthumb]

ARE should've been a little more aware of where the 1st down marker was, because I think he could've gotten the 1st down. That being said, Gibbs ABSOLUTELY made the right call. We had to take a chance at a FG, because if we go for it and don't get the 1st down, then we don't even provide ourselves an opportunity to tie the game.

[Death_Venom]

It was the right call. Wrong kicker, but definately the right call.

My opinon EXACTLY!!!!!!!

[mexskins]

It was the right call.

However, I think he made a mistake by not taking a timeout before the 2 minute warning.

Anyway, that is history.

Come on Skins !!!

Hail from Mexico !!!

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Didn't Longwell miss a kick of smilar length a few minutes earlier? It also seemed to be pulled by the wind.
Actually Longwell missed a 54 yarder and made a 46 yarder.

[vabeach_skinsfan]

ARE should've been a little more aware of where the 1st down marker was, because I think he could've gotten the 1st down. That being said, Gibbs ABSOLUTELY made the right call. We had to take a chance at a FG, because if we go for it and don't get the 1st down, then we don't even provide ourselves an opportunity to tie the game.

Thats exactly what I was thinking, ARE should have been more aware about the 1st down marker. But going for the FG was definitely the right choice, but leaving in the hands.....or shall I say "foot" of John Hall is not too much of a choice.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

It was the right call. Wrong kicker, but definately the right call.
Agreed... Man, how I would like to have Adam Vinatieri. That guy is money

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Agreed... Man, how I would like to have Adam Vinatieri. That guy is money
I'll repeat it for the 15th time since last night. He was available.

[Skins4life]

Yeah, obviously the right call. I was arguing with a drunk in the bathroom about this after the game. "Why didn't they go for it, why'd they let him kick it?" he kept saying...

I said, "Because he's a professional friggin' kicker and that's a kick he should be able to make."

If they'd had a timeout, I think he would've probably gone for it, but I'm not sure. Sad thing was, from my angle, it seemed like the kick was good and I was celebrating briefly before the horrible reality set in. Reminded me of the Portis TD against Green Bay in 2004 that would've won the game but was called back because of a penalty.


I hated that game. James trash in illegal motion.

That was BS.

sorry. that game still ticks me off

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Actually this is not true. We certainly did not win it before that call, but with either Vinatieri or Longwell, both of whom were available in free agency, I would have been pretty sure we could have gotten the game to overtime.

It's completely true. We screwed the pooch in this game long before John Hall jogged out with 17 seconds left. If Santana holds onto that touchdown catch, we win. If we force a single turnover, we win. If "3rd down, Brad Johnson completion over the middle, 1st down" doesn't happen 3,472 times in the 2nd half, we win.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

It's completely true. We screwed the pooch in this game long before John Hall jogged out with 17 seconds left. If Santana holds onto that touchdown catch, we win. If we force a single turnover, we win. If "3rd down, Brad Johnson completion over the middle, 1st down" doesn't happen 3,472 times in the 2nd half, we win.
That is all very true. But nonetheless, if we had a reliable kicker, we would have gone to overtime. We were pretty mediocre across the board last night. However, you can work those ifs both ways..if Williamson doesn't drop that bomb early on we go down by 10 early, if they force a single turnover they win much easier, etc. etc. etc. The fact remains that as horribly as we did, with a good kicker, we would have tied the game.

[LATrueRedskin]

Kicking a field goal was without a doubt the right call to make. You'd think a 45-yarder is pretty favorable. We did a good job of getting the ball into field goal range, but just didn't make it happen this time.

[Skins-R-Us]

A couple of you mentioned that ARE should have tried a little harder to get the first down. Even if he did get it would they have run another play with 11 seconds left? If they would have run another play with 11 secs left, then they should have went for it on 4th. Knowing the kicking struggles, there is no way you call that a high probability option. You have to know your players and the situation. Anyone else but Hall and the kick is a no brainer. However with Hall, I think we had a much better shot of getting a first down and having him kick from 5 or 10 yards closer. I still think the best option would have been to take a shot or two to the endzone with 25 secs left. All we needed was a pass interference or completion. Incomplete stops the clock. A TD was a much better alternative to Hall FG.

And if Gibbs would not hide his eyes everytime Hall kicked the ball, he would see what we all see!!!

[Apache]

As was mentioned before. Right CALL, wrong kicker. There was plenty of leg on the ball and he just pulled it.

[rskinsfan10]

ARE should've been a little more aware of where the 1st down marker was, because I think he could've gotten the 1st down. That being said, Gibbs ABSOLUTELY made the right call. We had to take a chance at a FG, because if we go for it and don't get the 1st down, then we don't even provide ourselves an opportunity to tie the game.Totally agree. I was disappointed that ARE didn't at least attempt to dive for the big orange marker in an attempt to get the 1st down.

[HAWGZHEAD]

A couple of you mentioned that ARE should have tried a little harder to get the first down. Even if he did get it would they have run another play with 11 seconds left? If they would have run another play with 11 secs left, then they should have went for it on 4th.If El had made the 1st we would have run a short pass to the sidelines or thrown it away with 11 sec. left seeing as the avg play in the NFL takes what, 7 sec? Now that quick pass to the sidelines can be quite dangerous with a DB more than likely knowing what is going to happen giving him an opportunity to jump the route. Even if he had made the first it would still have been a dangerous situation. Hopefully next time if we are ever in this situation we make the kick and get the W.

[rskinsfan10]

A couple of you mentioned that ARE should have tried a little harder to get the first down. Even if he did get it would they have run another play with 11 seconds left? If they would have run another play with 11 secs left, then they should have went for it on 4th.You seem to be forgetting about the fact that it was 4th down and not 1st down. If ARE moves the chains, then you have the luxury of a new set of downs. That makes the decision whether or not to go for it on 4th a helluva alot easier.

[santanadasavior]

Hindsight is always 20/20 to throw in a cliche. If we went for it and failed or ran out of time we would be saying the same thing about how we should have just kicked the field goal. I back Gibbs a 100% and I think what he did was good for Hall. He called his number when he didn't have to. Also I think Gibbs will call it again in a similar situation just to show him that he has faith in him, which could allow him to make it. I do think that he has a lack of confidence because you can just tell he doesn't think he will make it.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

I'll repeat it for the 15th time since last night. He was available.
Yeah, I know... that's why I keep having wet dreams about him since last night

[DoGood]

The only problem that I had with the end of that game was that we couldn't get that first down and make our lives waaaay easier. Didn't we have a sure fire play to pick up a first down and wasn't that the time to use it? After everything we have invested in this new offense, the least they can do is pick up such an important first down there. Sigh.

[smoak]

I can't imagine anyone who knows football going for it in that spot unless you know your kicker can't hit it. Unfortunately for us, Hall hit them from low 50s in practice and warmups, but not in the game.

Let it go. he was 3-4 on the night and thanks to the play calling and execution, it came down to that missed kick. We should have gotten TDs when we were in the red zone.

[X-Factor13]

Some people seem to be complaining about the final decision of the game, the 4th-and-1 that Hall kicked on. That was the kind situation that only Joe Gibbs will handle on gameday - not Saunders, not Williams, not anyone else. And it was absolutely, positively the right call. Yes, it would have been nice to kick from a closer distance. But when you have one play to either take a shot at a tie or risk not having a shot at all, you take your shot. You must at least be able to attempt to tie the game. It's that simple. I agonized the miss as much as anyone else here, but I'd back up Gibbs' decision 1,000 more times.

And if you watched the angle of the kick, you know it would have still missed from five yards closer, anyway.


I completely agree, but i just wish we had someone better or at least more confident than hall kicking that fg!

[smoak]

Actually this is not true. We certainly did not win it before that call, but with either Vinatieri or Longwell, both of whom were available in free agency, I would have been pretty sure we could have gotten the game to overtime.

I agree with silverspring. We lost the game by not stopping the Vikes on 3rd down and not converting red zone opportunities into TDs. Hall had nothing to do with our loss in my mind, which is not an indication that I am confident in him... A friggen pro kicker should get off a better attempt and hit a large % of sub 50 yard kicks.

[superskin]

I see your point Smoak, but Hall definitely had something to do with this loss.

I am sorry, but I just can't agree with the "we got outplayed anyway" theory. Hell, it is hard enough to win in the NFL, and I don't expect the Skins to dominate an opponent in order to "deserve" a win. The Vikes came to play, Johnson was efficient as hell, and in spite of our mistakes we fought like crap to get down the field with only a minute to play. We put ourselves in a position to force OT, and Hall blew it. It's like saying if Santana had dropped the second bomb from Brunell last year in Dallas, it wouldnt have mattered because we were out played for 56 minutes anyway. Receivers have to catch balls (like Santana did that night) and kickers have to make kicks (like Hall didnt do last night.) That's the difference between winning and losing in this league.

Our kicking game has just been a blur for the last year or so. It's like our dirty little secret, praying that the game doesnt come down to a FG attempt. I sure do yearn for the days of Lohmiller, our last real money kicker.

[santanadasavior]

I see your point Smoak, but Hall definitely had something to do with this loss.

I am sorry, but I just can't agree with the "we got outplayed anyway" theory. Hell, it is hard enough to win in the NFL, and I don't expect the Skins to dominate an opponent in order to "deserve" a win. The Vikes came to play, Johnson was efficient as hell, and in spite of our mistakes we fought like crap to get down the field with only a minute to play. We put ourselves in a position to force OT, and Hall blew it. It's like saying if Santana had dropped the second bomb from Brunell last year in Dallas, it wouldnt have mattered because we were out played for 56 minutes anyway. Receivers have to catch balls (like Santana did that night) and kickers have to make kicks (like Hall didnt do last night.) That's the difference between winning and losing in this league.

Our kicking game has just been a blur for the last year or so. It's like our dirty little secret, praying that the game doesnt come down to a FG attempt. I sure do yearn for the days of Lohmiller, our last real money kicker.

I'll be the mediator here and say that Hall did not cost us the game but he played a role in the loss. He could have made a play to send the game to OT but he didn't. We also could have one the game at other times.

[redskinz#1fan]

I see your point Smoak, but Hall definitely had something to do with this loss.

I am sorry, but I just can't agree with the "we got outplayed anyway" theory. Hell, it is hard enough to win in the NFL, and I don't expect the Skins to dominate an opponent in order to "deserve" a win. The Vikes came to play, Johnson was efficient as hell, and in spite of our mistakes we fought like crap to get down the field with only a minute to play. We put ourselves in a position to force OT, and Hall blew it. It's like saying if Santana had dropped the second bomb from Brunell last year in Dallas, it wouldnt have mattered because we were out played for 56 minutes anyway. Receivers have to catch balls (like Santana did that night) and kickers have to make kicks (like Hall didnt do last night.) That's the difference between winning and losing in this league.

Our kicking game has just been a blur for the last year or so. It's like our dirty little secret, praying that the game doesnt come down to a FG attempt. I sure do yearn for the days of Lohmiller, our last real money kicker.

Good ole' Chip! Mr. Chip shot himself!!

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I agree with silverspring. We lost the game by not stopping the Vikes on 3rd down and not converting red zone opportunities into TDs. Hall had nothing to do with our loss in my mind, which is not an indication that I am confident in him... A friggen pro kicker should get off a better attempt and hit a large % of sub 50 yard kicks.
Ok, so we are down by 3 with 17 seconds left, our kicker misses a makeable FG by a mile, and he had nothing to do with the loss? What exactly are we paying him for? IF it's just to kick 25 yard FGs, then I think Frost (or many of the members here) can take care of that..
We have many other problems that contributed, and the game could have been won way before that (but also lost way before that) in a number of ways, but to say he had nothing to do with it is just ignoring what actually happened IMO.

[smoak]

I'll be the mediator here and say that Hall did not cost us the game but he played a role in the loss. He could have made a play to send the game to OT but he didn't. We also could have one the game at other times.

That is what I meant. Even had Hall made the kick, we still could have lost in OT.

[skins74]

Gibbs made the right call.

[Apache]

rskinsfan10 wrote:

***************
Totally agree. I was disappointed that ARE didn't at least attempt to dive for the big orange marker in an attempt to get the 1st down.
***************

ARE was too upright when he had the ball and I think he was concentrating of trying to get the first down and also out of bounds and came up short on the first down. Had he dove he may not have gotten out to stop the clock but, we could have at least attempted a FG on first down with a chance at a second if you bombed the first. :)

[suppitty]

The problem was burning a timeout on 2nd &1 with 2:30 left. At that point you have to realise that they will get a first down on the next play. We wasted that timeout, and it ended up killing us. His time management is still very suspect, and if that's the one thing he actually has control over on gameday, then it could become a problem.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

The problem was burning a timeout on 2nd &1 with 2:30 left. At that point you have to realise that they will get a first down on the next play. We wasted that timeout, and it ended up killing us. His time management is still very suspect, and if that's the one thing he actually has control over on gameday, then it could become a problem.
I agree. We actually were extremely lucky they converted on the next play. If they had converted on 3rd down, we would have had absolutely no shot in the end. The more I think of it, the more I can't believe he made a mistake like that.

[smoak]

I agree. We actually were extremely lucky they converted on the next play. If they had converted on 3rd down, we would have had absolutely no shot in the end. The more I think of it, the more I can't believe he made a mistake like that.

I have to disagree again. The TO was before the two-minute warning which would have stopped the clock again. It was most like pre-determined that a timeout was going to be called and up to the D to keep it in a manageable situation. I'm sure they knew in the huddle what the situation was and what they needed to do. We were beaten at the point of attack on both sides of the football. You won't win many games when that happens.

[bgforever]

I have to disagree again. The TO was before the two-minute warning which would have stopped the clock again. It was most like pre-determined that a timeout was going to be called and up to the D to keep it in a manageable situation. I'm sure they knew in the huddle what the situation was and what they needed to do. We were beaten at the point of attack on both sides of the football. You won't win many games when that happens.

Great point before and after the game Smoak, you da man :)

I recall you telling about booking a flight if we dominate at the point of attack, well hold the payola for now, though the mistakes numerous, 99% are correctable. I appreciate that great insight man. Some teams can get away with POA ineptitude, because the skilled position players can be so dominant and eek out a win. I believe we have a slew of 'em and it looks to take another day to it.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I have to disagree again. The TO was before the two-minute warning which would have stopped the clock again. It was most like pre-determined that a timeout was going to be called and up to the D to keep it in a manageable situation. I'm sure they knew in the huddle what the situation was and what they needed to do. We were beaten at the point of attack on both sides of the football. You won't win many games when that happens.
Smoak, I'm not saying that was the reason we lost. I'm saying it was bad clock management. IMO we were lucky they converted on 2nd down and not 3rd.
If they had not converted on 2nd down, we would gave gotten to the 2 minute warning on 3rd and 1. Then either we stop them, which you admit we had not done all day, or else they convert on the next play. Then we are forced to take a time out. Then it's 1st and 10 with 1 time out. Game over.