The After Game - Your thoughts Thread [Merged]

[PennSkinsFan]

1. Clinton Portis showed up, played with heart, put everything on the line, and I give him a big kudos for that. he was a difference maker tonight in a game the defense did not allow him to make a difference.

2. I like this team alot. I really, and in all honestly, bash me if you want, I see us going to know where with Brunell. Juts my opinion take it for what it is worth.

3. Randle El is a gamer. We need to take more advantage of his speed.

4. Where was Brandon Lloyd and how much did we pay him?

5. Where was Duckett? Ummmm, where was Duckett?

6. hR give kudos to the one guy that deserves to start that doesn't. Demetric Evans. Guy played a helluva game, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Guys needs to see more time on the field.

and finally

7. GW is under the microscope. Defense lost this game, so let's see how GW responds. I look for guys like Evans and Golston to see more action. Springs absence hurt.

[mexskins]

Hi PSF

I agree with you on several of your points. However, I dont think the defense lost the game. If you cant score 20 points at home, it would be hard to win in the NFL.

I think the whole team as a unit did not play well. Offense and defense.

Very few individuals played well like you said.

Thanks and hail from Mexico !!

[ryflan47]

Yeah, PSF you hit that on the head. Demetric Evans was just a monster tonight. He was making me think Andre Carter who? If Carter can get something going this season, we're going to have a nasty defensive front that will be fresh because of rotations.

[NCskinsfanatic]

The defenses inability to get off the field on 3rd down led to the Offense having like 5 possessions the entire second half...that is inexcuseable.

[whistleandthumb]

PSF is right - this loss is on the defense. They couldn't stop the run, and they CONTINUALLY gave up big 3rd down conversions. We're still not getting pressure from the front 4, and I'm wondering when Mr. Carter plans to show up and earn his keep.

[Fathead]

Clinton is the man. I hope he didn't tweak anything because we need him next week.


The O line must show up next week. MUST SHOW UP.

We must convert red zone opportunities into TDs!

I like our team. I think some time in this offense will mean great things. My only worry is making sure we don't dig ourselves too big a hole (we did last season and it cost us, 1 more win would have meant being the 2 seed in the playoffs).

A Gregg Williams defense should not give up the plays it did today. Simple as that. I expect something next week.

[PennSkinsFan]

Clinton is the man. I hope he didn't tweak anything because we need him next week.


The O line must show up next week. MUST SHOW UP.

We must convert red zone opportunities into TDs!

I like our team. I think some time in this offense will mean great things. My only worry is making sure we don't dig ourselves too big a hole (we did last season and it cost us, 1 more win would have meant being the 2 seed in the playoffs).

A Gregg Williams defense should not give up the plays it did today. Simple as that. I expect something next week.

and two very big questions need to be asked....

where was TJ Duckett

Where was Brandon lloyd

[Fathead]

I'm going to assume that Duckett wasn't in for a good reason. I think Coach Gibbs has earned that.



I have no idea what happened to Lloyd. He dressed didn't he?

[bergiemoore]

Defense played below expectations, but honestly, when your offense takes 4 trips to the redzone and only comes back w/ 16 points, what do you expect?

We really should have scored a bunch more points. A lot of points were left on the field.

If we force other teams to play from behind, our defense can create turnovers. If our offense can't find the endzone, then opposing offenses can just sit back and run the clock while throwing high percentage paces. It is a little much to expect our defense to continually shut down opposing teams completely. We need to have a balance.

[Dept_of_Defense]

We'll see how CP feels tomorrow morning. Every hit he took I was watching to see which shoulder absorbed most of the contact. Thankfully most of the hits that I saw were on his right shoulder and not his left. Hopefully he's just fine. Is there any update on Pierson Prielou yet? We really needed him tonight.....or should I say Carlos Rogers really needed him tonight....

[Fathead]

Oh I agree. But the Vikings are not an offense juggernaut. They should not have been moving the ball like they did.

[PennSkinsFan]

Defense played below expectations, but honestly, when your offense takes 4 trips to the redzone and only comes back w/ 16 points, what do you expect?

With the millions we have spent on that defense, roster and coaching staff, a helluva alot more that what we got.

[Axegrinder]

The only disagreement that I see is that I'd put the loss on the Special Teams and not the Defense.Where was our kick coverage?
Coverage and the FG unit is the same old stuff.

[Fathead]

All 3 phases of the game failed tonight. Our offense should have scored 24 points. Easily.

Our D should not get exploited like that.

Special teams coverage was lacking, Frost shanked one, and Hall missed the most important kick of the night.



That being said, I still think this is a team that can be great. All of these issues (except Frost and Hall) are fixable.

[RedskinsVision]

If a guy doesn't play on offense or defense you'd expect them to play ST's but Duckett did nada. He's not a ST player so why have him dressed to not play him at all? They couldn't have given any of the 8 carries that Betts had to him? Especially in the redzone. I think that's something they'll remedy though and have him back there next week.

[whitskins]

I think the defense is going to be fine. The Vikes look dominant up front with their O-line. With Birk healthy, Hutchinson in the mix, and McKinnie stepping his game up, they are sick. We got very little pass rush and Brad Johnson had all day to throw. He will hurt you if that is the case. But we managed him pretty well. We could have been better but we were neutralized up front.

Carlos Rogers had probably the worst game of his career. Not just professional career. I mean playing/watching/acknowledging the existence of the game of football career. I think that kind of performance will be a rarity with him.

The offense is not nearly as good without Mr. Clinton Portis. CP is an elite NFL running back. Ladell Betts is... Ladell Betts. I don't see why people think Betts would be a starter on some teams. There's nothing remotely special about him. He's not very good. We need CP back healthy and taking 25 carries a game. If he was fully healthy we'd have won by 10 points.

Our red zone offense stunk at the beginning of last year too. It'll get better. TJ Duckett also needs 10 carries next week. I want to see him play.

[danny's stogie]

I think the defense is going to be fine. The Vikes look dominant up front with their O-line. With Birk healthy, Hutchinson in the mix, and McKinnie stepping his game up, they are sick. We got very little pass rush and Brad Johnson had all day to throw. He will hurt you if that is the case. But we managed him pretty well. We could have been better but we were neutralized up front.

Carlos Rogers had probably the worst game of his career. Not just professional career. I mean playing/watching/acknowledging the existence of the game of football career. I think that kind of performance will be a rarity with him.

The offense is not nearly as good without Mr. Clinton Portis. CP is an elite NFL running back. Ladell Betts is... Ladell Betts. I don't see why people think Betts would be a starter on some teams. There's nothing remotely special about him. He's not very good. We need CP back healthy and taking 25 carries a game. If he was fully healthy we'd have won by 10 points.

Our red zone offense stunk at the beginning of last year too. It'll get better. TJ Duckett also needs 10 carries next week. I want to see him play.

Because Waly Lundy, Mike Bell, and Julius Jones are also starters.

[whitskins]

Because Waly Lundy, Mike Bell, and Julius Jones are also starters.

Maybe Betts could give Lundy a run for his money, I haven't seen very much of Bell. I think JJ is grossly overrated and is nothing special, but he's better than Betts. Betts is super duper average. Not a bad receiver though, but no consistent threat running the ball. When CP is back our offense will be much smoother.

[redskin_rich]

Where was Brandon lloyd
He was the one standing wide open on the final drive that Brunell overthrew by about 10 feet.


Here are my questions, where was the deep passes, where was the pass rush and where was the supposed good special teams coverage?

[danny's stogie]

Maybe Betts could give Lundy a run for his money, I haven't seen very much of Bell. I think JJ is grossly overrated and is nothing special, but he's better than Betts. Betts is super duper average. Not a bad receiver though, but no consistent threat running the ball. When CP is back our offense will be much smoother.

Betts is a better pass blocker and reciever. JJ is better if you give him a 10 foot wide hole to run through.

[wewantdallas]

I agree that this loss is NOT solely on the defense. This is as clear a case of a "team loss" as I've ever seen.

1. Defense had little pressure, costly penalties, gave up tons of third and longs, could not stop the Vikings when they had to, really hurting in the secondary right now.

2. Offense squandered three opportunities to score TDs instead of FGs, GREAT opportunities. Playcalling was suspect at times, not a great running game.

3. Special Teams - Frost was inconsistent as usual, Hall misses a clutch kick, big returns given up, etc.

The whole team really DOES share the blame for this frustrating loss.

What concerns me the most is the injury situation in the secondary. WIthout Springs next week, we're going to be in HUGE trouble against Owens and Glenn.

What truly bothered me tonight is that the fans seemed to have zero effect on the Vikings. And the fans were at times VERY loud, and yet the Vikes still managed to play as if they were in a library. It was incredibly frustrating as a fan screaming my head off on third and long over and over only to have the opposing team convert. Have to give them credit.

[danny's stogie]

What truly bothered me tonight is that the fans seemed to have zero effect on the Vikings. And the fans were at times VERY loud, and yet the Vikes still managed to play as if they were in a library. It was incredibly frustrating as a fan screaming my head off on third and long over and over only to have the opposing team convert. Have to give them credit.

That's what happens when you have one of the game's best centers back from injury.

[jporterweb]

I mean is it just me or did we fall into a lot of zone coverage on those 3rd downs? I can think of no other reason the recievers were always so open. Our cover guys aren't that bad. Where were the big blitzes on third downs to screw up Johnson? We got good pressure on him when we blitzed. I blame Williams for this a lot more than i do most of the players. Except for the fact that Rogers needs to get his frickin hands up when hes in the endzone and his man got passed him. Not just keep running looking at the guy then push him out of bounds.

[whistleandthumb]

What truly bothered me tonight is that the fans seemed to have zero effect on the Vikings. And the fans were at times VERY loud, and yet the Vikes still managed to play as if they were in a library. It was incredibly frustrating as a fan screaming my head off on third and long over and over only to have the opposing team convert. Have to give them credit.

The only answer I have for that is Brad Johnson. The guy's a gamer, what can I say. And I still hate the fact that we gave him up.

But I know I had read that he'd been working on a silent count to use throughout the game, knowing how loud FedEx can get. Plus that OL is pretty good, and is made up of a few great vets.

You guys were doin' us proud, though! They did have a FEW false start penalties.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

and two very big questions need to be asked....

where was TJ Duckett

Where was Brandon lloyd
Where were Andre Carter and David Patten?

I know it's one game, but I think it's pretty clear that we have about 1 pretty well-paid WR too many, and I really have no idea why we felt the need to have Portis, Betts, and Duckett all on our roster at the same time.

How much is Vinatieri making?

[SkinsKY]

PSF is right - this loss is on the defense. They couldn't stop the run, and they CONTINUALLY gave up big 3rd down conversions. We're still not getting pressure from the front 4, and I'm wondering when Mr. Carter plans to show up and earn his keep.

The defense does bear a lot of blame, but three redzone FGs? Instead of 28 points, we come away with 16. That's a huge difference right there too. When you're in the redzone, you have to convert TDs. I would have gone for it on that last FG we hit. I take that risk and try to get it done because a four point lead gives you so much more than a tie.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

The defense does bear a lot of blame, but three redzone FGs? Instead of 28 points, we come away with 16. That's a huge difference right there too. When you're in the redzone, you have to convert TDs. I would have gone for it on that last FG we hit. I take that risk and try to get it done because a four point lead gives you so much more than a tie.
No way IMO. You HAVE to tie the game there.

[MONK_in_HOF]

1. Clinton Portis showed up, played with heart, put everything on the line, and I give him a big kudos for that. he was a difference maker tonight in a game the defense did not allow him to make a difference.

2. I like this team alot. I really, and in all honestly, bash me if you want, I see us going to know where with Brunell. Juts my opinion take it for what it is worth.

3. Randle El is a gamer. We need to take more advantage of his speed.

4. Where was Brandon Lloyd and how much did we pay him?

5. Where was Duckett? Ummmm, where was Duckett?

6. hR give kudos to the one guy that deserves to start that doesn't. Demetric Evans. Guy played a helluva game, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Guys needs to see more time on the field.

and finally

7. GW is under the microscope. Defense lost this game, so let's see how GW responds. I look for guys like Evans and Golston to see more action. Springs absence hurt.

There are several points I agree with.

First off the positives. Clinton definitely showed heart and El is a gamer.

Now for the bad.
4. Where was Lloyd? Was this guy even in the game???
5. Where was Duckett? Why did we trade a 3rd round pick for this guy?? There were plenty of situations he could have been used to pound the ball. Not 1 carry.
7. Defense did lose this game IMO. The Vikings had the ball too long. The front 4 lost the battle. The 3rd downs they allowed were the biggest key. Lots of concerns on that side of the ball. They couldn't make a play when they really needed to.
Carlos Rogers- can't be going for ball fakes.
Adam Archuleta- I am really worried about this guy and wondering why we paid him so much. I have always wondered about the amount of cash, but I am really starting to wonder if he is an upgrade at all over Clark.
Carter- He got a little pressure, but not enough.

This is a very disheartening loss considering all the breaks the Skins got and when you consider the difficulty of the remainder of the schedule.

Edit: Now that I have had more time to cool off and disect the loss, I am less firm in my position that the D cost us this game. I guess I was just used to this D bailing us out time after time over the past 2 years. The 3rd and long D and lack of pass rush was frustrating to say the least, but considering they didn't have Springs the D played well overall. Offense has to finish better, especially at home.

[FunBunch5]

IMO a good defense can stop Brad Johnson. The Vikings are a better team than I personally gave them credit for, but an elite defense gets Brad Johnson and Co off the field. Our defense looked very mediocre today.

I think this teams problem is at QB play. Everything has been upgraded but the QB position. I like Brunell, but he is reminding me of Theisman at the end of his career. Theisman couldn't move the team in 1985 and they were struggling offensively until Shroeder came in. Schroeder made some mistakes, but he was able to get the ball downfield and opened up the offense. I believe the team went on to win 5 of their last 6 games. IMO Brunell is struggling to get the ball down field and holding the offense back.

The good news is this is just the first game and hopefully Brunell proves me wrong by the end of the year.

[WRSK1NS]

Duckett is still new to the scheme (especially with all the shifting) I expect that he will be worked in as the weeks go on.
Also Ladell cannot say that he wasnt given a chance because he had his chance last night. Portis clearly outshined him and I expect that Duckett will too.

[BigPlayJay]

All 3 phases of the game failed tonight. Our offense should have scored 24 points. Easily.

Our D should not get exploited like that.

Special teams coverage was lacking, Frost shanked one, and Hall missed the most important kick of the night.



That being said, I still think this is a team that can be great. All of these issues (except Frost and Hall) are fixable.

Perfect assessment. This was truly a team loss.

The offense left points on the field. the special teams had breakdowns, and the defense underperformed (especially on 3rd down). Team loss all the way. It will get fixed.

[skins74]

How about Chris Samuels? Was I the only one who watched him get beaten badly on many occassions?

[BigPlayJay]

How about Chris Samuels? Was I the only one who watched him get beaten badly on many occassions?

I didn't notice, but I'm glad we didn't wind up with Robert gallery of Oakland, he is sooooo bad!

[IllinoiSkinFan]

It seemed to me that Brunell was being rush far too much.
Our line just was not doing its job.

[vabeach_skinsfan]

I was highly disappointed in the performance of Rumph. No wonder SF let him go, becasue he has no business playing DB. One potential TD catch was dropped by the vikings WR, but Rumph got burnt bad on that play just like several other plays. Luckily we only lost by three, rather then ten pioints.

Not sure how we are going to keep TO and Glenn under control.

[PennSkinsFan]

Now that I have had more time to digest this, further thoughts....

1. I clearly hope this is not the Saunders scheme. I may say, I am very disaapointed. This little dink screen offense is not the kind of offense you can play in the NFC East. Where were the deep passes. We had one, one to Moss, that was a success. We have speedy guys, yet we try only one long shot. This was a very conservative game plan and saunders was rather unimpressive and quite boring in Week One.

2. Andre carter. He was dominated all night. We spent alot of moeny for him to generate pass rush --- he did no such thing, clearly was dominated.

3. Rogers is not a number one CB, but more than likely a good number two. Thsi defense IS NOT HE SAME withotu Shawn Springs. This defense is not a great defense when either Griffin or Springs are out. That was evident last night without Springs.

4. Duckett was new to the scheme???? Who cares. When you in the red zone, running is running and he does it well. This is one thing that really startles me at this game plan. Duckett should have been in the game in the red zone, no ifs ands or buts about it.

5. Marcus Washington proves each and every game since he arrived here why he is the best player on our defense.

6. Taylor has to cool the penalties.

7. Finally, just like I said back in May, we keep Hall and Frost, there gonna kill us several times. Pioint made. This perhaps will turn out to be one of Gibbs' woprst personnel decision, not upgrading the two ST units that were horrendous in 2005 and they return in 2006. Hall is not the same since his injury period.

[dj_stouty]

2. I like this team alot. I really, and in all honestly, bash me if you want, I see us going to know where with Brunell. Juts my opinion take it for what it is worth.

Brunell is our best option at QB. He manages the game well, and doesn't make mistakes. He actually throws a nice/accurate deep ball (when asked upon...which was only once or twice last night). He doesn't turn over the ball. Last night, he had the same number of passing yards as Tom Brady, and only 2 passer rating points lower than Peyton Manning.

We won with Brunell last year and we will continue to win with Brunell this year. I'm not worried about the QB position.

Playcalling? Lack of Pass Rush? Inability to defend on 3rd down? Those are different stories...

[PennSkinsFan]

Brunell is our best option at QB. He manages the game well, and doesn't make mistakes. He actually throws a nice/accurate deep ball (when asked upon...which was only once or twice last night). He doesn't turn over the ball. Last night, he had the same number of passing yards as Tom Brady, and only 2 passer rating points lower than Peyton Manning.

We won with Brunell last year and we will continue to win with Brunell this year. I'm not worried about the QB position.

Playcalling? Lack of Pass Rush? Inability to defend on 3rd down? Those are different stories...

True. Best option, yes. I don't dispute that. BUT, problem i see, we are weak at QB, period.

[hailj]

1. Clinton Portis showed up, played with heart, put everything on the line, and I give him a big kudos for that. he was a difference maker tonight in a game the defense did not allow him to make a difference.

2. I like this team alot. I really, and in all honestly, bash me if you want, I see us going to know where with Brunell. Juts my opinion take it for what it is worth.

3. Randle El is a gamer. We need to take more advantage of his speed.

4. Where was Brandon Lloyd and how much did we pay him?

5. Where was Duckett? Ummmm, where was Duckett?

6. hR give kudos to the one guy that deserves to start that doesn't. Demetric Evans. Guy played a helluva game, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Guys needs to see more time on the field.

and finally

7. GW is under the microscope. Defense lost this game, so let's see how GW responds. I look for guys like Evans and Golston to see more action. Springs absence hurt.

&

8 ) NFL. 47 yard field goal....that is why kickers get paid the bucks...not 57...not 50...47 yard field goal....Ryan longwell did a pretty good job on the 46 yard field goal to go up by 3....John Hall gets the new tag 50/50 on our team and that is sad.

9) Punter? Cricket Cricket...I mean really....what a f'ing embarassment.

10) CB's....Sean Springs better get healthy soon...REALLY SOON...someone needs to show Burnt (Carlos) and Toast (Rumpfff) how to play the position before we play a legit QB/WR duo..(side note I pined that we didnt have Smoot anymore)....REALLY>>>>SMOOOOOT>?...is he better than all our talent? In one word, nay 3 words...LOVE BOAT YES

11) TJ Duckett? 1st and Goal 4 yard line....? WHY DID WE PICK HIM UP?

12) I love Sean Taylor...LOVE HIM...but he is dangerously close to Lavar in my mind in terms of controlling his emotions and playing his role. He is lights out...but he plays a position that demands control, in which he exhibited none last night

13) Chris...Cooley...cricket cricket....whY?

14) Andre Carter - Literally half the size of everyone else on the line...no pressure...no nothing but a financial hole we dumped lots into....we might as well move him to outside linebacker to give him a couple of steps before he gets man handled by the NFL tackles he is going up against....he better start eating 5 guys 5 times a day

15) Al Saunders - 2 million bro....2 million and all I get was goosebumps on the first play (5 wide outs) and then same old same old, dip and dunk, flare into the flats crap that got us 15 points a game last year. Really Really really dissapointing.

16) Adam F'ing Archuleta - Dont know what got me more excited about his play last night.....getting burned or getting run over....but either way he is being paid to be better than Ryan Clark and I didnt see anything last night that even comes close to making that comparison.

17) JOE GIBBS>? I hate to say it but calling a timeout @ 2:26 when it is 2nd and 1 might be the worst football call I have ever heard of....sure it would of cost us maybe 15 seconds and we start with 45 seconds and a TIMEOUT....sorry, never felt the need to resort to questioning him....but I have played madden long enough to know you dont call timeout when then are obviously about to get a new set of downs.....

D- performance...the only thing that keeps it from F is 1) Santana....2) Clinton Portis 3) Randel-EL 4) Our linebacking core...Washington was lights out and Holdman is a new player from a year ago

I know its the first game and I am being over critical....
Hail to the Redskins

Joe will get us back on our feet for the biggest game of the season next week

[IowaSkinsFan]

Brunell may or may not be the best option at QB. What I do see is that Saunders playcalling is severly limited by what he sees from Brunell. I didn't see any difference in playcalling from this year to the last year in the passing game. Passes to the flats and WR screens. Where are the deep balls down the middle to the TE's like Minny was making? I personally don't think Brunell can make those throws anymore and that's why they are not attempted.

[dj_stouty]

True. Best option, yes. I don't dispute that. BUT, problem i see, we are weak at QB, period.

There are a lot of questionmarks at that position. We have our old grizzled vet who is in his last season as a starter, but is temporarily serviceable...we have our developing franchise QB who obviously hasn't gotten his vote of confidence from the new OC...and we have our career backup, whose only benefit seems to be his "knowledge" of the playbook and not his quarterbacking skills.

But when it comes to Brunell, I saw a lot to be happy with last night. He could have had a real cluster-job due to all of the new things with this offense. There are a dozen other scenarios that could have happened last night in which I would start worrying about him.

[Spence]

I dont think the defense lost the game. If you cant score 20 points at home, it would be hard to win in the NFL.I agree. I've written for two years on this website the Gregg Williams isn't nearly as smart without Shawn Springs in the lineup. He just can't run his normal blitz packages without his security blanket in the secondary. The Redskins defense isn't the Redskins defense without Shawn Springs. But they still held the Vikes to less than 20 points at home. The Redskins offense kicked too many field goals and squandered too many chances.

[dj_stouty]

Brunell may or may not be the best option at QB. What I do see is that Saunders playcalling is severly limited by what he sees from Brunell. I didn't see any difference in playcalling from this year to the last year in the passing game. Passes to the flats and WR screens. Where are the deep balls down the middle to the TE's like Minny was making? I personally don't think Brunell can make those throws anymore and that's why they are not attempted.

I keep hearing that Brunell can't throw the deep ball, yet he seems to always make those throws when called upon.

Campbell has a better deep ball (when he isn't putting too much air under them like he did several times in preseason) but that isn't the only skill needed by a Saunder's QB.

I think we need to witness Brunell float the deep ball before we assume he can't throw it anymore.

[Spence]

I keep hearing that Brunell can't throw the deep ball, yet he seems to always make those throws when called upon.I agree and that's what I wrote in Spence Speaks. Brunell was allowed to throw two downfield passes all night. He completed one to James Thrash and another to Santana Moss. That's two for two. Both passes thrown hard and accurately. There were no other downfield passes called. Those routes just were not used, for whatever reason. I don't pretend to know why Al Saunders called the game he called, but it's not fair to blame Mark Brunell for what was clearly a coaching decision.

[IowaSkinsFan]

I certainly didn't see every route that was ran by every receiver but the possibility does exist that those routes were ran on many plays and Brunell chose not to throw the ball there, the receivers weren't open or he didn't see them, have a clear lane, had already checked down, etc.

[Patrick]

Man - I see a lot of the same complaints being posted. Yeah I'm disappointed in the outcome of the game but let's remember - It is a 16 game season.

A few items of note from my view point:

Clinton Portis - yeah yeah yeah - Man has heart - Is a Gamer, and all that stuff BUT he was not 100% last night. He wasn't playing like his usual self and it was pretty evident in the second half. Now if it comes out that he tweek his shoulder or is too sore this week to practice for Dallas - then I say his presents in the game last night was stupid - bottomline.......... Sean Taylor - don't change your play - just play smarter........... Andre Carter was just too light (against McKinney 6-9/350) to be used on first and second down - REALLY felt the effects of Wynn not being able to play last night........... Brandon Loyd does not throw the ball so don't blame him for being invisible last night ............. Duckett not playing is a coach decision so don't blame him for being invisible too............. Marcus Washington IS the BEST defensive player on our team and NFC - without a doubt he's a beast. ......... Al Saunders new wrinkle of using the TE only as a blocker WAS a bad idea ............. LASTLY - scoring less than 20 points a game will yield you ONLY 5 wins (maybe) this season.

[PennSkinsFan]

Man - I see a lot of the same complaints being posted. Yeah I'm disappointed in the outcome of the game but let's remember - It is a 16 game season.

Thats what happens after a loss. Yoru right Patrick it is a long season, but the true negatives, the ones that really stand out are pretty darn clear. The offensive game plan brought tot he table by Saunders was odd and unimpressive, lack of deep ball, poor redzone play, baffling why we did not use Duckett and Punter and Kicker will hurt us throughout 2006. Those are the big negatives. As far as things liek Rogers and Carter, that will cure itself.

[28thegreat]

PSF is right - this loss is on the defense. They couldn't stop the run, and they CONTINUALLY gave up big 3rd down conversions. We're still not getting pressure from the front 4, and I'm wondering when Mr. Carter plans to show up and earn his keep.
Whistle, they had less than a hundred yards rushing. They did a good jpb against the run. Where we stunk the place up was on third down defense. "Johnson in the shotgun, over the middle to _______________, first down." And it was often five to ten yards they had to convert for the first down. Absolutely pitiful. But our run defense was strong. LEss than one hundred yards rushing versus 250 or so passing.

[RedskinsATW!]

1. The D-line was totally outclassed up front: That $49 mil for Steve Hutchinson is starting to look like money well spent. Hell, this is the Redskins, we overspend for everybody. At least the Vikes got some production for their cash. Wish I could say that about Andre Carter. Donovan McNabb threw for 341 yards... against Houston. A team that won the Reggie Bush sweepstakes and subsequently drafted Mario Edwards #1. Point is, you're measured against the best competition not the scrubs. And the Vikes O-line is a damned good one. I don't care if we hold David Carr to 62 yards with 6 picks and 8 sacks when we play them. Some things are a given. We got dominated up front by a good O-line. Period.

2. Brad Johnson is a wiley, ol' SOB: Hats off. He stood in the pocket and fired away those 3 times the O-line actually let him feel pressure. He didn't make any stupid mistakes and I think he played a decent game. Decent enough to win anyways. 'nuff said.

3. Carlos Rogers: Well he made Troy Williamson look like T.O. without the hands. He'll probably make T.O. look like Jerry Rice. Shawn Springs needs a hyperbolic chamber, some cortisone, and a voodoo witch doctor to get him back in shape for next week. Tell me again why we didn't go after Sam Madison? Darrell Green he's not but neither is Rumph and Wright. I'm starting to reconsider my stand that Jimoh isn't a 3rd Corner. After last night, anybody can play this game. Or at least try.

4. Mike Carey is still mad at Sean Taylor for those digital photos with Mike Carey's daughter: I have no other explanation. An obvious 5-yard facemask and a love tap on a play where ST could've put himself on another episode of "Jacked-Up!" equals 30 yards in penalties. He's a safety not a centerfielder! Let them play the game.

5. Al, I know it's the first game but Joe has a system that led to 3 SB titles and a bust in Canton: He now defers to you AND pays you over $2 mil a year in Danny bucks. 16 points is not quite the dividend I was expecting. I know you led the best NFL offense in KC. Let's just say we hope the future is better than the present. GW, 3rd down conversions killed us. Break out the pixie dust and DO SOMETHING!!

6. John Hall has outlived his usefulness and Frost is well... Frost: Oh Hall's deadly inside 30 yards. But this is Pro-Football. I know HS kickers that are deadly from 30 and they don't get paid millions to shank game winners on national TV. Anybody have Nick Novak and Sean Landeta's number?

7. This team is merely mediocre without Clinton Portis: But Randle-El brings excitement and ability and was a good addition. Brandon Lloyd needs to step up and improve but it's still early. I can't help but believe that T.J. Duckett at tailback with Sellers (aka the New Otis Wonsley) at fullback and Cooley and Fauria at double TE's and I'm having flashbacks to 1983 in the Red Zone. 16 points on 4 trips ain't getting it done. Punch it in with attitude. This is a Joe Gibbs led Redskins team. How about we start acting like it!!

Hopefully, things are better next week. After watching John Hall screw the pooch last night I can't take losing to the 'girls on back to back weeks. Reverse karma would be Sean Taylor gives T.O. a Trent Green-type concussion and the league PAYS HIM $17K.

[nyskinsfan7]

am i wrong or were both shawn taylor's penalties on the viking's last scoring drive? i love his athleticism....he is a maniac on the field but he may cost us as many games as he wins us. just a thought

[guinness4health]

7. GW is under the microscope. Defense lost this game, so let's see how GW responds. I look for guys like Evans and Golston to see more action. Springs absence hurt.

with our current secondary, we have to pay a ton of zone and can't blitz like we want to.

[bgforever]

Thats what happens after a loss. Yoru right Patrick it is a long season, but the true negatives, the ones that really stand out are pretty darn clear. The offensive game plan brought tot he table by Saunders was odd and unimpressive, lack of deep ball, poor redzone play, baffling why we did not use Duckett and Punter and Kicker will hurt us throughout 2006. Those are the big negatives. As far as things liek Rogers and Carter, that will cure itself.

Hmm, perfect recipe to get ready to prepare for a Dallas game. Pretty much stunk in a lot of areas, so now, everyone's going to be really focused.

[bgforever]

with our current secondary, we have to pay a ton of zone and can't blitz like we want to.


I believe SS will be a favorable and probable game time decision. I believe lke in 1983, we needed a serious CB, we took DG, ditto in 2007 draft. SS deserves a real student and achiever of the game, in Rogers mold (yes he's still learning to turn properly in mid air :) ). Rogers learned a valuble lesson in the end zone. Its the feeling you NEVER forget and it shapes you into the monster you can become. Rogers is the type of mindset like MW. He will only get better.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

with our current secondary, we have to pay a ton of zone and can't blitz like we want to.

I disagree entirely. Our zone got obliterated every time we ran it. On the other hand, after the first couple of misjudgements in man coverage, the secondary seemed to respond to that very, very well. On top of that, it's not at all impossible to blitz with man coverage. Either can be done.

[hailj]

I thought the offense looked pretty much in sync. They communicated well. Although they had difficulty in the red zone, they looked pretty comfortable out ther for the most part (taking into account that this was the FIRST game). Brunnell spread the ball around pretty well, and a lot of people got involved. I actually thought ST played pretty well too. Frost hit a couple of sorry punts early on, but his kickoffs looked pretty good, his later punts were better and coverage was good. They should've gone for it on 4th down at the end.The defense clearly misses Springs.

[guinness4health]

I disagree entirely. Our zone got obliterated every time we ran it. On the other hand, after the first couple of misjudgements in man coverage, the secondary seemed to respond to that very, very well. On top of that, it's not at all impossible to blitz with man coverage. Either can be done.

My point is that the defensive staff doesn't have the confidence in the corners without springs...to completely unleash the dogs.... thus they played a lot of zone to try and cover the weakness....

with springs in the line-up it is a very different defense, we can count on 3-4 secs of good coverage to get after the quarterback.... until springs gets back we are not going to be able to be as aggressive (IMO)

[helimech24]

My point is that the defensive staff doesn't have the confidence in the corners without springs...to completely unleash the dogs.... thus they played a lot of zone to try and cover the weakness....

with springs in the line-up it is a very different defense, we can count on 3-4 secs of good coverage to get after the quarterback.... until springs gets back we are not going to be able to be as aggressive (IMO)Well said. Our defense isn't going to work right until we get our #1 corner back into the game. Until then, our team is going to struggle in the passing game. It is the responsibility of the LBs to control the LOS so that Arch and ST don't have to make all the plays against the run.

[BIGSEF3]

[QUOTE=PennSkinsFan]

7. GW is under the microscope. Defense lost this game, so let's see how GW responds. [QUOTE]

I honestly have to disagree. Our defense only gave up 16points. Thats not too shabby for a defense. Yes, they kind of fell apart near the end of the game, but even then, they had done a good job containing the Vikings most of the game. 3rd downs were definately disappointing, but that speaks more to springs absence than a true problem with our defense, in my opinion.

In my opinion our offense lost this game. Brunell had time all day long in passing situations. Our line did a great job protecting him most of the time. The problem in my opinion is the playcalling. We only threw 2 deep balls all game, and both were completed. There is no excuse for this offense only scoring 1 touchdown. Our offense lost us this game with a poor red-zone performance. John hall is not a good kicker. I knew there was no chance he would make that field goal. When you are absolutely certain your kicker will miss a 47yarder, then theres a problem. It was Gibbs decision and he needs to get over his love affair with Hall. Knowing hall's weakness, we should have gone for it on 4th. I'm thinking a quick play to the outside to get in range for hall. I would have even been happy to go for the TD. Going for the 47 yarder was stupid. However, it never should have come to that. If saunders had called a better gameplan (more downfield passes, run Betts up the middle, let Duckett play, etc) we never would have been in that situation to begin with.

Kudos for the vikings though. I underestimated them. They really earned thier victory.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

[QUOTE=PennSkinsFan]

7. GW is under the microscope. Defense lost this game, so let's see how GW responds. [QUOTE]

I honestly have to disagree. Our defense only gave up 16points. Thats not too shabby for a defense. Yes, they kind of fell apart near the end of the game, but even then, they had done a good job containing the Vikings most of the game. 3rd downs were definately disappointing, but that speaks more to springs absence than a true problem with our defense, in my opinion.

In my opinion our offense lost this game. Brunell had time all day long in passing situations. Our line did a great job protecting him most of the time. The problem in my opinion is the playcalling. We only threw 2 deep balls all game, and both were completed. There is no excuse for this offense only scoring 1 touchdown. Our offense lost us this game with a poor red-zone performance. John hall is not a good kicker. I knew there was no chance he would make that field goal. When you are absolutely certain your kicker will miss a 47yarder, then theres a problem. It was Gibbs decision and he needs to get over his love affair with Hall. Knowing hall's weakness, we should have gone for it on 4th. I'm thinking a quick play to the outside to get in range for hall. I would have even been happy to go for the TD. Going for the 47 yarder was stupid. However, it never should have come to that. If saunders had called a better gameplan (more downfield passes, run Betts up the middle, let Duckett play, etc) we never would have been in that situation to begin with.

Kudos for the vikings though. I underestimated them. They really earned thier victory.
:banghead: :banghead:

[Dolla Bill]

[QUOTE=PennSkinsFan]

7. GW is under the microscope. Defense lost this game, so let's see how GW responds. [QUOTE]

I honestly have to disagree. Our defense only gave up 16points. Thats not too shabby for a defense. Yes, they kind of fell apart near the end of the game, but even then, they had done a good job containing the Vikings most of the game. 3rd downs were definately disappointing, but that speaks more to springs absence than a true problem with our defense, in my opinion.

In my opinion our offense lost this game. Brunell had time all day long in passing situations. Our line did a great job protecting him most of the time. The problem in my opinion is the playcalling. We only threw 2 deep balls all game, and both were completed. There is no excuse for this offense only scoring 1 touchdown. Our offense lost us this game with a poor red-zone performance. John hall is not a good kicker. I knew there was no chance he would make that field goal. When you are absolutely certain your kicker will miss a 47yarder, then theres a problem. It was Gibbs decision and he needs to get over his love affair with Hall. Knowing hall's weakness, we should have gone for it on 4th. I'm thinking a quick play to the outside to get in range for hall. I would have even been happy to go for the TD. Going for the 47 yarder was stupid. However, it never should have come to that. If saunders had called a better gameplan (more downfield passes, run Betts up the middle, let Duckett play, etc) we never would have been in that situation to begin with.

Kudos for the vikings though. I underestimated them. They really earned thier victory.


What?! Were we watching the same game?

[BIGSEF3]

[QUOTE=BIGSEF3][QUOTE=PennSkinsFan]

7. GW is under the microscope. Defense lost this game, so let's see how GW responds.


What?! Were we watching the same game?

Yes, maybe you should watch it again. He had alot more time than we gave Rob Johnson, which is a compliment. I think after the game you may be remembering all the negatives. If there is one thing on our offense I feel good about, its our offensive line. I am very proud of our offensive line.

[Skinz4lyfe]

2. I like this team alot. I really, and in all honestly, bash me if you want, I see us going to know where with Brunell. Juts my opinion take it for what it is worth.



The funny thing is I actually agree w/you on this one. I cannot elaborate on it right now because I can't put it into words exactly how I feel. But its just the first "official" night seeing him in this offense. We will see how the season plays out.

[shally]

now that my pulse and finger temperature have both cooled below triple digits this is what i think about last night's loss....

the espn crew took special pains to point out that gibbs was 0-5 on monday night openers.. now he is 0-6... a not so veiled slap at our coach not being able to win a big game onthe national stage.. does anyone know how those previous 5 seasons turned out? was it a harbinger of a non playoff year, or was it merely a bump in the road? i have no clue

what i do know is that it sets up a huge game next week. few teams recover from an 0-2 start to become playoff teams. i do not know if any have ever reached the superbowl. one way or the other, it will be a statement game for this team. losing preseason games is one thing, losing 2 within the conference to start out is another. dallas will be facing the same crossroads and it will be their home opener. expect them to come out hard inthe first half. we need to be ready and match their intensity.

losing prioleau was huge. it will be felt all year, if the news is as i fear (ACL).
he was a steadying influence and was extremely versatile.

credit the vikes and childress. he said he was going to change the culture of his team and for at least 1 game, he did. credit him for being totally in sync with his qb. johnson was the perfect extension of his coach on the field. granted, there was little if any pass rush on him, but even when pressured he had the ball out so quickly it did not matter. he converted 3rd down after 3rd down via the pass. and toughness? they ran the ball to set up the final fg when they had to. if there is a better interior lineman in the nfl than hutchinson, i have not seen him. he is the first player i have seen to manhandle griff by himself. the left side of the vike off line plus the center may be the top trio in the nfc. they were simply dominating all night

what about the redskins? here are some thoughts..

700 page playbook produces dink and doink offense.. how many times did we throw deep? santana was available. lloyd was not even involved. if you need to run a 2 man route and max protect, so be it. but get the ball downfield in the hands of your playmakers.

where was cooley ? if akh is right, it will be a waste of one of the teams bigger weapons.. gibbs always adapted to his personnel. why cannot saunders?

i liked what i saw of d evans and golston. lots of energy and around the ball.
i never saw carter flash all night. is he really a one move player? clearly in 1 game he is not the outside rushing force we hoped to have. he needs to rebound next week against a suspect dallas o line..

we miss springs so much it is pathetic.. rogers looked hesitant and slow at times. rumph got toasted. wright committed his worst timing penalty. they played so far off the receivers that johnson had clear sailing.. and had williamson caught that pass it would have been another helping of toast.

and arch ?? why did we spend top tier money on a guy who is a liability in pass coverage? that was his rep with the rams and that is what we got. all those third down coversions ? a lot of them were in the middle of the field and arch had his back turned to the qb for them. tell me what we saw in him that clark did not provide for less money ? i do not see that as being an upgrade. plus, his presence seems to put more strain on taylor in pass coverage.. again, losing prioleau is huge in that aspect as well.. 1 game only, but i am unconvinced we did the right thing..

betts? i like the way they used him on wheel routes.. as for him running the ball, no way. work duckett into the rotation with portis. nobody in their right mind will pay betts starters money

ARE.. what an exciting player... they need to find a way to get the ball into his hands even more often. he just makes plays.

holdman.. had a decent game. still,we want to get rocky involved. overall there are still too many missed tackles on defense. not a great game by marshall either, but washington is still a great player.. they need to create turnovers as a defense however..

frost... had a decent game. he planted the ball on the 2 and had only 1 poor punt. his kickoffs were erratic and he still had to make a TD saving tackle on a return. it would still be better to have a kicker performing this duty, but for now that is how we roll

portis... he is still the MAN.. plays with courage and with heart. this team will get better as he is able to play more

hall.. saving the worst for last.. with all due respect for his supporters on this forum, he is still damaged goods as far as i see. whether it is a physical issue or whether it is a mental one, he is not the kicker he once was. this team looks to be playing quite a few close games until the offense settles in to saunders schemes, and if that is to be so, having a money kicker is paramount. does anyone really think we have that in hall?
the problem is that we passed on longwell and vinateri in the offseason and it is a major roll of the dice to replace hall now with what is out there now.. not a happy situation to be in..

so, on to dallas ... put this one behind us.. win and we are 1-1 and tied for first place if the giants beat philly. lose and we could be 2 behind the eagles already.. gut check time for this team...

shally

[BIGSEF3]

The funny thing is I actually agree w/you on this one. I cannot elaborate on it right now because I can't put it into words exactly how I feel. But its just the first "official" night seeing him in this offense. We will see how the season plays out.

I actually agree with that, too. I honestly think Brunell is still a good quarterback, and I think we can go places with him. However, i view this similar to how I view the Brett Favre situation. Favre is the better quarterback, but the team is rebuilding so you might as well put Rogers in and let Favre go somewhere else.

I dont want Brunell to go, and we're not rebuilding in the same sense the Packers are, but we do have a new offense, new receivers, and Campbell IS the future. I know its early, but I don't see us making the superbowl this year. Im not saying the season is over, but our division is the toughest in the NFL. The Cowboys and Giants lost this week, but they both looked scary - much tougher than the VIkes. We are playing against the 2nd toughest division in the NFL this season. We have 2 games against the Jags and the Colts. Looking at the big picture, I would rather let Campell learn the offense now. If last night was anything to go by, Saunders isnt asking our quarterbacks to do much of anything but hand the ball off and throw short screens. Campell can do THAT just as well as Brunell. I'm not saying we are going to have a losing season, but I honestly don't think we will win or lose
any more games with Brunell under center instead of Campell.

[Jon Jansen is money]

well said shally

[MONK_in_HOF]

I haven't heard much discussion on Holdman's play last night. Last year you couldn't avoid seeing Holdman's name. I think he had a solid game last night. He looks vastly improved over last season.

[bgforever]

I kept mum on some things from the FO, but Vinnie still rings in my head, no matter what coach says, to be modest or not expose the porous FO for its previous adm's with Steve Spurrier on back to Norv Turner. I still have my suspects when it comes to the somewhat ODD amount, even if displaced money into 2075 even. It IS the player we give it to, even if we covet them or they have great, not just good upside. It still doesn't break free of Dan's tinkering to me, but coach said it aint so. So as a human and member of this site, I am exercising a privilege to say my piece.

The good point is, if it happens again next week, we will know for sure, its got the FO's fingerprints all over it.

[skinfanjon]

PSF is right - this loss is on the defense. They couldn't stop the run, and they CONTINUALLY gave up big 3rd down conversions. We're still not getting pressure from the front 4, and I'm wondering when Mr. Carter plans to show up and earn his keep.

Minnesota was 9-17 on thrid down conversions, but it felt more like 14-17. Seriously, I was shocked to see it was barely above 50%. I'm watching the game on DVR right now (it's painful, but I always review tape, especially if I'm at the game)....we had so many chances to stop them deep in their own territory, especially in the second half, only to let them off the hook time and time again. This is the first game I can remember since GW became our DC that our defense was passive. They were reactionary and unimaginative all night. Now, I'm sure with Springs out, GW felt handcuffed a bit, and in turn was just trying to manage the game the best he could, but by staying in base defenses and using the same basic zone blitzes over and over, we really can't expect to force turnovers or sacks from a veteran quarterback known for avoiding those very things. I hope next week in Dallass we decide to take some chances defensively, because if we don't, Dallass will beat us with the same slow drip leak the Vikes used against us last night. Springs cannot return soon enough.

[MONK_in_HOF]

I kept mum on some things from the FO, but Vinnie still rings in my head, no matter what coach says, to be modest or not expose the porous FO for its previous adm's with Steve Spurrier on back to Norv Turner. I still have my suspects when it comes to the somewhat ODD amount, even if displaced money into 2075 even. It IS the player we give it to, even if we covet them or they have great, not just good upside. It still doesn't break free of Dan's tinkering to me, but coach said it aint so. So as a human and member of this site, I am exercising a privilege to say my piece.

The good point is, if it happens again next week, we will know for sure, its got the FO's fingerprints all over it.

I am not really quite sure what you are trying to say, but I think I do so I will try to weigh in with my thoughts. I have personally questioned some moves made by the FO this offseason as well. Personally I didn't like the Lloyd trade b/c we gave up a pick when I felt there were comparable talents in the FA pool that wouldn't require losing a pick. Antonio Bryant is the guy I would have liked to see. Adam Archuleta is the other. I can't fathom making a 1 dimensional player the highest paid strong safety in the league.

But back to your point, I don't think the blame should be pointed at Cerrato, if that in fact is where you were placing the blame. I think he does very little besides gathering information and ranking different players, whether it be draftees, upcoming free agents. I really don't think he has much input when it comes to the final decision on who to draft/sign/trade for. As for Snyder I am sure he is aware of all that is going on, but I doubt he is stepping on Joe Gibbs and his staffs toes and trying to persuade them into football decisions.

Also I am not sure what you mean when you say if it happens again next week we will know for sure it has the FO fingerprints on it. I am not sure what you are saying here. Are you suggesting the FO is determining who plays?

Don't take this reply the wrong way. I am not attacking your post, just trying to get some clarification on the points you are making, b/c I am not following them.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Shally, even though I am 125 years younger than you ( :D), ew think very much alike..I agree with every word you said.

P.S. No offense taken right? You are a young 150 after all...lol...

[shally]

Shally, even though I am 125 years younger than you ( :D), ew think very much alike..I agree with every word you said.

P.S. No offense taken right? You are a young 150 after all...lol...

after last night, i felt like 150 this morning.. and that was with an alcohol free evening (no way my wife would let me start drinking at 4, LOL)

[SpicyMcHaggis]

after last night, i felt like 150 this morning.. and that was with an alcohol free evening (no way my wife would let me start drinking at 4, LOL)
You're telling me...I actually witnessed Hall's miss at 4.20 in the morning...imagine how I felt when I went to sleep...

[Dolla Bill]

Minnesota was 9-17 on thrid down conversions, but it felt more like 14-17. Seriously, I was shocked to see it was barely above 50%. I'm watching the game on DVR right now (it's painful, but I always review tape, especially if I'm at the game)....we had so many chances to stop them deep in their own territory, especially in the second half, only to let them off the hook time and time again. This is the first game I can remember since GW became our DC that our defense was passive. They were reactionary and unimaginative all night. Now, I'm sure with Springs out, GW felt handcuffed a bit, and in turn was just trying to manage the game the best he could, but by staying in base defenses and using the same basic zone blitzes over and over, we really can't expect to force turnovers or sacks from a veteran quarterback known for avoiding those very things. I hope next week in Dallass we decide to take some chances defensively, because if we don't, Dallass will beat us with the same slow drip leak the Vikes used against us last night. Springs cannot return soon enough.


Problem is, that all those 3rd downs were crucial ones.

[skinfanjon]

Problem is, that all those 3rd downs were crucial ones.

No kidding. It was similar to the way we played against Seattle in week 3 last year. Every time they needed to convert, they did. The back breaker was when we had them pinned on their own 2 yardline and let them drive all the way into our territory. We stiffened up and forced a punt, but then we had to punt it right back. Their next drive resulted in the game winning field goal. It felt like all 9 of their 3rd down conversions came on those two drives.

[cactusjack]

I agree with most all of the comments from the start of this thread. I cant bust on Holdman. He did his job last night. I would like to see Rocky get a few more reps thou. However the game was really lost due to those who were filling in for Springs. Mike, Kenny and Adam are really gonna have to step it up Sunday night. Glenn and T.O. are both better than anything the Vikings have on the roster and wont drop the ones that were dropped last night. As for Hall, the guy has always been a choke artist. He is is 8 for 13 lifetime in last minute game tie or win attempts. He is a career 61% with the game on the line. That is 6 otta ten did anyone really think he was gonna make that kick. I also agree that we have to take a few shots deep. I dont remember any attemps over the top. We have to have a few shots over the top to soften the middle and short game.
Well enough of my complaining. I still love our Redskins and always will. I am sure we will play better on Sunday. HAIL TO THE REDSKINS!

[shally]

You're telling me...I actually witnessed Hall's miss at 4.20 in the morning...imagine how I felt when I went to sleep...

ouch !! i would have forgotten about trying to sleep and just had an early breakfast and coffee... lots of coffee...

[SpicyMcHaggis]

ouch !! i would have forgotten about trying to sleep and just had an early breakfast and coffee... lots of coffee...
You're not gonna believe this...I'm Italian, and I absolutely hate coffee...

[Dolla Bill]

You're not gonna believe this...I'm Italian, and I absolutely hate coffee...


Liar :D

[shally]

You're not gonna believe this...I'm Italian, and I absolutely hate coffee...

no way ???? since moving to the pacific northwest i have been totally immersed inthe coffee culture up here.
i could not imagine getting through the day without it.. it is not that big a hassle as you think.. we buy our beans at costco (they have really primo stuff) and grind it inthe morning.. we use an espresso machine and in 2-3 minutes it is heaven in a cup..
i like to use a little sweetened condensed milk (you can get no fat if you wish) along with really strong brew..

magnifico !!

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Liar :D
I swear to god...

[bwparker]

I kept mum on some things from the FO, but Vinnie still rings in my head, no matter what coach says, to be modest or not expose the porous FO for its previous adm's with Steve Spurrier on back to Norv Turner. I still have my suspects when it comes to the somewhat ODD amount, even if displaced money into 2075 even. It IS the player we give it to, even if we covet them or they have great, not just good upside. It still doesn't break free of Dan's tinkering to me, but coach said it aint so. So as a human and member of this site, I am exercising a privilege to say my piece.

The good point is, if it happens again next week, we will know for sure, its got the FO's fingerprints all over it.
I'm sorry, I'm very confused. What are you blaming on the FO exactly?

[Death_Venom]

1. Clinton Portis showed up, played with heart, put everything on the line, and I give him a big kudos for that. he was a difference maker tonight in a game the defense did not allow him to make a difference.

2. I like this team alot. I really, and in all honestly, bash me if you want, I see us going to know where with Brunell. Juts my opinion take it for what it is worth.

3. Randle El is a gamer. We need to take more advantage of his speed.

4. Where was Brandon Lloyd and how much did we pay him?

5. Where was Duckett? Ummmm, where was Duckett?

6. hR give kudos to the one guy that deserves to start that doesn't. Demetric Evans. Guy played a helluva game, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Guys needs to see more time on the field.

and finally

7. GW is under the microscope. Defense lost this game, so let's see how GW responds. I look for guys like Evans and Golston to see more action. Springs absence hurt.

All very valid points. VERY VALID. I think the D suffered largely due to the loss Springs not playing (due to injury). And the CB's looked to be playing very loose off the ball carriers......And lets give a BIG HAIL YA to D. Evans to making some big plays last nite........I would like to see Duckett alternate with Portis instead of the Ole Portis/Betts Rotation Machine.......BTW I thought Lloyd did have ONE catch last nite??? ( I could be wrong on that one.)

[SpicyMcHaggis]

no way ???? since moving to the pacific northwest i have been totally immersed inthe coffee culture up here.
i could not imagine getting through the day without it.. it is not that big a hassle as you think.. we buy our beans at costco (they have really primo stuff) and grind it inthe morning.. we use an espresso machine and in 2-3 minutes it is heaven in a cup..
i like to use a little sweetened condensed milk (you can get no fat if you wish) along with really strong brew..

magnifico !!
It's not the trouble of making it..it's that I just really dislike the taste, in any shape, way, or form...and I've tried any kind I can find here (which is obviously the best you can find) and even in the states..I can't even stand coffe-flavored ice-cream..

[shally]

It's not the trouble of making it..it's that I just really dislike the taste, in any shape, way, or form...and I've tried any kind I can find here (which is obviously the best you can find) and even in the states..I can't even stand coffe-flavored ice-cream..

kahluha ? (sp?) hate that too?

to each his own.. i just want you to know that it does not have to taste bitter if you do not want it to

[Biggie]

I do love a good cup of coffee (or coffee-flavored anything).

Good topic Shally. I agree with what you said about Hutch, the guy is a monster and Seattle is going to be hurting without him.

[shally]

I do love a good cup of coffee (or coffee-flavored anything).

Good topic Shally. I agree with what you said about Hutch, the guy is a monster and Seattle is going to be hurting without him.


seattle WAS hurting without him.. womac is nothing akin to him.. hasselbeck got pounded much of the game

[shally]

No kidding. It was similar to the way we played against Seattle in week 3 last year. Every time they needed to convert, they did. The back breaker was when we had them pinned on their own 2 yardline and let them drive all the way into our territory. We stiffened up and forced a punt, but then we had to punt it right back. Their next drive resulted in the game winning field goal. It felt like all 9 of their 3rd down conversions came on those two drives.

yes.. that was inexcusable.. a total momentum changer.. if not a turnover, they needed a 3 and out..

[BurgundyNGold]

You're telling me...I actually witnessed Hall's miss at 4.20 in the morning...imagine how I felt when I went to sleep...
Ha!

[Charlz]

1. Adam A. didn't show anything to justify making him the highest paid safety in the NFL. I started to get nervous in August when they played him longer than the other vets on defense. Did that mean that he was not catching onto the playbook?

2. ST will be a major liability, he needs a lot more discipline.

3. Carlos Rogers is going to get picked on all season long.

All of this on defense-supposedly out strongest unit.

[3Taylor6]

you really think arch played that bad..yea he didnt change the game the way the highest paid safety should but i really thought he played much better yesterday than he did in the preseason he didnt give up any big plays that were all his fault or atleast i didnt notice any..if your gonna pick on any of our defensive players it should be carlos..9th pick in the draft should be performing better imo

[becky]

the espn crew took special pains to point out that gibbs was 0-5 on monday night openers.. now he is 0-6... a not so veiled slap at our coach not being able to win a big game onthe national stage.. does anyone know how those previous 5 seasons turned out? was it a harbinger of a non playoff year, or was it merely a bump in the road? i have no clue


The man has 3 Super Bowl rings.. if that's not winning big games on the national stage, I don't know what is. I don't know the answer to your question shally, but that stat bugged me when they showed it because it is completely meaningless.

[Syllable]

where was cooley ? if akh is right, it will be a waste of one of the teams bigger weapons.. gibbs always adapted to his personnel. why cannot saunders?



If anything saunders should have done a semi- Tony G on Cooley. The real quest ion is, Why is saunders adapting out of his old style when he has a pretty althletic TE.

[skinfanjon]

The man has 3 Super Bowl rings.. if that's not winning big games on the national stage, I don't know what is. I don't know the answer to your question shally, but that stat bugged me when they showed it because it is completely meaningless.

I know three of the years were 85,89,and 92, and I think the other two years were '88 and 83', but those two may be off.

[OCSKINSFAN]

A number of people have said it's only 1 game, and it's a long season. That's true, but misses an important point. With only 16 games, each game is crucial. There is a big difference between 10-6 and 9-7 - in the playoffs, out fo the playoffs, home field. The Skins have a tough schedule and have to win the games they are expected to. This was 1 of them. They really need to beat Dallas to make up for that (and to get some momentum/confidence after this game and the preseason).

[PGiddy18]

Mark, your overall breakdown was very good, i just want to comment on a couple things.

2. Andre carter. He was dominated all night. We spent alot of moeny for him to generate pass rush --- he did no such thing, clearly was dominated.

3. Rogers is not a number one CB, but more than likely a good number two. Thsi defense IS NOT HE SAME withotu Shawn Springs. This defense is not a great defense when either Griffin or Springs are out. That was evident last night without Springs.

5. Marcus Washington proves each and every game since he arrived here why he is the best player on our defense.

I think i was one of the people that was most excited by the signing of Carter. Finally, we'd be able to get a great deal of pressure on the qb! Obviously, from the part of the game that I saw, that wasn't the case. Jacksonville showed us that if you pressure Bledsoe that he will fold, so Carter had better step it up next week.

Rogers did have a good game, but he isn't accustomed to covering #1 wideouts. He made some plays, (I think he needs to work with the wide receivers to learn how to hold onto a ball) but i think you'll only see him improve. He has a great deal of potential, and this game was an awakening for him. He'll do much better next week.

You can not say enough good things about Washington. He is the heart of this Defense and made some fantastic plays last night. Easily the top performer of the game.

[NamVet4]

Memo to Al Saunders:
Item # 1 Take your 700 page playbook, open to page 279, lay flat, razor the spine and throw away every page on the right!
Item # 2 Chris Cooley is on our team!
Item # 3 The season has started, no need for vanilla.... It's time now in the league where they play for pay

[Syllable]

Memo to saunders.

On your first day as a skin you managed to not get brunell sacked, and no ints.

[Apache]

We were supposed to have beat this team without any worries and we didn't. We are going to have a long season if we don't fix our problems and get our key players back in the game from injuries. What happened to that defense we had from the last 2 season's? It also seemed like we had more penalties than we should last night. Aside from not reaching the end zone, we were moving the ball. There weren't too many 3 and out's that I recall like preseason. We just weren't reaching the end zone from the Red Zone like we should and that's because they forgot Cooley was on our team and TJ Duckett wasn't in the game. Isn't that what Duckett was used for at his last gig??? Big 3rd downs and goal line???

[dj_stouty]

Isn't that what Duckett was used for at his last gig??? Big 3rd downs and goal line???

Speaking of rushing on 3rd down...

Did you know that the Redskins were faced with 13 third-downs last night and they passed on every single one?

[PGiddy18]

Speaking of rushing on 3rd down...

Did you know that the Redskins were faced with 13 third-downs last night and they passed on every single one?

in the first half, there is one third down play that sticks out in my mind.

it was third and 5 or 6, and if we make it, it becomes first and goal. we pass the ball, to portis, who is 4 yards off the line of scrimmage. Portis was met with defenders almost immediately, so we settled for a field goal. If we don't throw the ball PAST the first down line, how are we ever going to get first downs??

[dj_stouty]

in the first half, there is one third down play that sticks out in my mind.

it was third and 5 or 6, and if we make it, it becomes first and goal. we pass the ball, to portis, who is 4 yards off the line of scrimmage. Portis was met with defenders almost immediately, so we settled for a field goal. If we don't throw the ball PAST the first down line, how are we ever going to get first downs??

Reminds me of a few 3rd downs in the Midnight Miracle game last year in Dallas, where Bledsoe constantly hit receivers behind the 1st down markers.

I hate to see our own team do that. My only thought is that Gibbs/Saunders were expecting Portis to "do something" with the ball in the open field. Didnt' work out that way, though...

[Syllable]

Speaking of rushing on 3rd down...

Did you know that the Redskins were faced with 13 third-downs last night and they passed on every single one?
On the third in longs thats fine, but duckett? Also I dont want to see one of those Norval Shotgun Delay handoffs that gets us 10 yards when we should get 15.

[BurgundyNGold]

I know three of the years were 85,89,and 92, and I think the other two years were '88 and 83', but those two may be off.
One was definitely '83. It was against Dallass and had the great Darrell Green rundown of Tony Dorsett.

[hail2skins]

There are way too many of these here are my thoughts threads. I'm merging a couple of them together. Remember to use an existing thread to post your comments.

[hail2skins]

PennSkinsFan and Shally's threads have been merged.

[whistleandthumb]

Memo to saunders.

On your first day as a skin you managed to not get brunell sacked, and no ints.
Good point... though some of that goes on Brunell's shoulders, too. Mark did a great job of sliding around in the pocket, throwing the ball away, and even running for a first down.

[skinfanjon]

in the first half, there is one third down play that sticks out in my mind.

it was third and 5 or 6, and if we make it, it becomes first and goal. we pass the ball, to portis, who is 4 yards off the line of scrimmage. Portis was met with defenders almost immediately, so we settled for a field goal. If we don't throw the ball PAST the first down line, how are we ever going to get first downs??

I get what you're saying, but I doubt that Portis was the first option on that play. I think Cooley was the primary route-runner, but they did a pretty good job of marking him around the goalline. Either way, we have to find a way to get guys open in the end zone. The one time we did was to Moss along the endline, and he got drilled by Sharper and couldn't hang on to the ball. How about running a couple of fades to Lloyd? I know he's only a touch under 6 feet tall, but he plays like he's 6'5. I would love to see us get him isolated in single coverage and lob one in his direction. Actually, we could probably figure a way to manipulate the pre snap motion to free up the same route for Cooley. Whatever we do, we've got to get guys open, because checkdowns short of the first down marker make my blood boil.