let's get back to redskin football

[shally]

i think we are all dancing around the big picture here when we are talking about schemes and complexity and other side issues. this is football we are talking about. trench warfare. and that is where we have lost the past 2 games.
it is not our schemes that are at fault. it is the individual players and their collective results that are killing this team. guys like jansen and rabach and others are being bumrushed constantly. duckett and betts cannot block a pass rusher if their lives depended upon it (actually it is brunell's life that depends upon it). betts seldom runs tough or through anybody.
on defense, griff got handled by hutchinson. one on one. that set the tone for the entire defense. when your best player is seen getting whipped time after time it sets the overall tone. carter got stuffed so many times that by the end evans was playing instead. tackles were being broken constantly by players like julius jones and chester taylor, who will not be receiving all pro accolades this season.
i love the quote that was attributed to brad childress all during the minny game. he said it was necessary to be able to bloody the other guy's nose and to run the ball whether the other team put up a defense or not. that is exactly what they did. and that, more than anything is what has to change.

sure, there are mental errors that happen. there is confusion. there are poorly designed schemes. but that is not the basic problem here. it is as plain as could be. we are not playing redskin football. until we do, it is not going to matter whether brunell or campbell is starting. this is not about saunders or williams, it is about attitude and forcing your will upon your opponent. about saying to him, here we come again and you cannot stop me.. that is what must change for this team to win again. nothing less, nothing more....

[redskin_rich]

Complexity is a part of it though, because players are having to think rather than do what comes naturally. When they are comfortable with what they are doing, they will be confident and can start playing Redskins football.
That is an excuse for the offense anyway.

[shally]

Complexity is a part of it though, because players are having to think rather than do what comes naturally. When they are comfortable with what they are doing, they will be confident and can start playing Redskins football.
That is an excuse for the offense anyway.

no sir.. that is bunk..it is not the scheme that rabach and jansen are failing at. it is whipping their man. one on one.
tandler had a comment on dockery not finishing his blocks. that is not about schemes or complexity.
on defense schemes do not cause broken tackles. and we are seeing far too many of them.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

no sir.. that is bunk..it is not the scheme that rabach and jansen are failing at. it is whipping their man. one on one.
tandler had a comment on dockery not finishing his blocks. that is not about schemes or complexity.
on defense schemes do not cause broken tackles. and we are seeing far too many of them.
shally, I agree..we have been talking about schemes, changes in them, complexities, adaptation, and so on and so forth for 3 days now..but none of that really means anything when the o-line can't protect the passer or open holes for the running back, and the d-linemen look like they are facing the Berlin Wall out there...

[Inuyasha]

hmmm someone please tell me why they havn't tried a trick play with Randle El yet,I assume thats one of the reasons why they got him.....

[redskin_rich]

no sir.. that is bunk..it is not the scheme that rabach and jansen are failing at. it is whipping their man. one on one.
tandler had a comment on dockery not finishing his blocks. that is not about schemes or complexity.

If it was that simple, then how can we expect it to change? Are you saying two vets like Jansen and Rabach just aren't motivated. That's bunk.
What are you going to say when this offense does start clicking? They finally got down to playing Redskins football?
Look, I get your point but you are way oversimplifying things. There is more to the problems than just blocking and tackling.

[whitskins]

This team won't be playing "Redskins football" again until Clinton Portis takes the rock 25 times a game. Once CP is back we'll see some dramatic improvements.

[redskinz#1fan]

hmmm someone please tell me why they havn't tried a trick play with Randle El yet,I assume thats one of the reasons why they got him.....


Maybe.........just maybe, it's because we can't complete a normal slant, post, or fly pattern. Or maybe it has something to do with the fact that we haven't been able to the run the ball on a consistent basis. Those might be some reasons....:rolleyes: (not mad at you, just upset about what has been going on)

[Redskin4Life]

hmmm someone please tell me why they havn't tried a trick play with Randle El yet,I assume thats one of the reasons why they got him.....
I was pretty sure they were trying to at the beginning of the 4th quarter... ARE got a hand off from Brunell but seemed like he wasn't running the reverse but looking downfield. But like most of the night, there was a defender in the backfield that dropped him for a 5 yard loss.

[shally]

hmmm someone please tell me why they havn't tried a trick play with Randle El yet,I assume thats one of the reasons why they got him.....

trick plays usually only work when the defense is so worried about stopping the run that they sell out and leave other areas unprotected..

[shally]

If it was that simple, then how can we expect it to change? Are you saying two vets like Jansen and Rabach just aren't motivated. That's bunk.
What are you going to say when this offense does start clicking? They finally got down to playing Redskins football?
Look, I get your point but you are way oversimplifying things. There is more to the problems than just blocking and tackling.

not sure about motivation.. only about results.. and both lines have been thoroughly whipped 2 games in a row. the tackling has been spotty 2 games in a row. that has to change before the results will change

[whistleandthumb]

This team won't be playing "Redskins football" again until Clinton Portis takes the rock 25 times a game. Once CP is back we'll see some dramatic improvements.

Precisely.

No team is threatened by Duckett or Betts, and they shouldn't be since neither one is going to break a run for a big play. Without CP, teams can continue to just stop our run with their front 4, and when we get to 3rd down, drop everyone in coverage, force an incompletion or a sack, and then we're punting again.

Redskin football involved running the ball... alot. And we won't be able to do that, nor do it effectively, until CP is back. Completely back.

[AliBabba]

not sure about motivation.. only about results.. and both lines have been thoroughly whipped 2 games in a row. the tackling has been spotty 2 games in a row. that has to change before the results will change

hey all ... i have been sitting back and just reading these first two weeks ... but i gotta chime in right now

Shally, I totally agree about the results: tackling has been very poor, blocking especially by Rabach and Jansen been horrible, and more than anything mental mistakes and penalties have been at an all-time high (or is that a low).

I don't agree that this is a motivation issue. these guys are pros and they are good ones too. They don't just stop showing up or caring. I don't know exactly what the problem is: technique, health, system, playbook ....

I don't think Houston is a gimme, but I think it will be a good opportunity for us to execute our plays properly, build some confidence and maybe more important than anything, build some continuity. You can't win running only 50 plays a game.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

hmmm someone please tell me why they havn't tried a trick play with Randle El yet,I assume thats one of the reasons why they got him.....
Because everyone, including yourself, are expecting it ;)

Let's get the basics going first IMO

[Syllable]

While, I am still expecting Mark to fold somewhere in this season. The Oline needs to give him a Chance to make some Passes without pressure. I hate to say it myself, but putting Jason Cambell in, when a vet like Mark can't even find someone open with that much pressure.

[openallnight]

i think we are all dancing around the big picture here when we are talking about schemes and complexity and other side issues. this is football we are talking about. trench warfare. and that is where we have lost the past 2 games.
it is not our schemes that are at fault. it is the individual players and their collective results that are killing this team. guys like jansen and rabach and others are being bumrushed constantly. duckett and betts cannot block a pass rusher if their lives depended upon it (actually it is brunell's life that depends upon it). betts seldom runs tough or through anybody.
on defense, griff got handled by hutchinson. one on one. that set the tone for the entire defense. when your best player is seen getting whipped time after time it sets the overall tone. carter got stuffed so many times that by the end evans was playing instead. tackles were being broken constantly by players like julius jones and chester taylor, who will not be receiving all pro accolades this season.
i love the quote that was attributed to brad childress all during the minny game. he said it was necessary to be able to bloody the other guy's nose and to run the ball whether the other team put up a defense or not. that is exactly what they did. and that, more than anything is what has to change.

sure, there are mental errors that happen. there is confusion. there are poorly designed schemes. but that is not the basic problem here. it is as plain as could be. we are not playing redskin football. until we do, it is not going to matter whether brunell or campbell is starting. this is not about saunders or williams, it is about attitude and forcing your will upon your opponent. about saying to him, here we come again and you cannot stop me.. that is what must change for this team to win again. nothing less, nothing more....

You nailed it Shally! Our problem is players getting individually beat. I know everyone wants to point to schemes because, that seems "easily" fixable or a qb change again a quick fix but, bottom line our linemen are losing the battle of the trenches more than they are winning them right now.

[openallnight]

If it was that simple, then how can we expect it to change? Are you saying two vets like Jansen and Rabach just aren't motivated.
I don't know about motivation but, I think Jansen is injured. He has looked like crap all pre-season and in the 1st 2 games this season. He appears to be a shell of the pre-achilles Jansen right now.

[joethefan]

Personaly, I don't know know what redskin football is any more:

No I have it....Redskin football is

Marketing,
Big contracts to everyone,
Getting rid of decent players for no reason (Ryan Clark)
Giving draft picks to to everyone
CHANGING EVERYTHING EVERY FRIGGIN YEAR RESULTING IN NO CONTINUITY.
Charging $25.00 to see a scrimmage.


That's Redskin football.

That's why i coach little league, cause of not I would be pulling my hair out right now.

[shally]

Personaly, I don't know know what redskin football is any more:

No I have it....Redskin football is

Marketing,
Big contracts to everyone,
Getting rid of decent players for no reason (Ryan Clark)
Giving draft picks to to everyone
CHANGING EVERYTHING EVERY FRIGGIN YEAR RESULTING IN NO CONTINUITY.
Charging $25.00 to see a scrimmage.


That's Redskin football.

That's why i coach little league, cause of not I would be pulling my hair out right now.


ouch...

maybe back to what used to be redskin football

[hail2skins]

Personaly, I don't know know what redskin football is any more:

No I have it....Redskin football is

Marketing,
Big contracts to everyone,
Getting rid of decent players for no reason (Ryan Clark)
Giving draft picks to to everyone
CHANGING EVERYTHING EVERY FRIGGIN YEAR RESULTING IN NO CONTINUITY.
Charging $25.00 to see a scrimmage.


That's Redskin football.

That's why i coach little league, cause of not I would be pulling my hair out right now.Pretty funny JTF

Without Marketing this team wouldn't have money to go after players they feel they need (Santana Moss, Marcus Washington). They wouldn't be able to pay the salaries of players like Sean Taylor, Clinton Portis, Marcus Washington, Randle-El, Santana Moss, etc...You'd be paying even higher prices for tickets.

As for Big Contracts to everyone, we know they never see the entire contract and they redo contracts all the time. Do we do it more than other teams, yes but they've gotten some players for it.

Getting rid of decent players is a part of the NFL now. Eventually, all teams must do it.

Giving draft picks to everyone. Yes, they do and they do it for a reason. They would rather a bring someone in who is young and have NFL experience rather than gamble on a lot of players who may or may not pan out. Is it wrong, could be but that's how they do business.

Changing everything. I agree up to a point. We've had continuity in the coaching staff the last couple of years and even with the core of the team. Gibbs decided he wanted to improve the offense so he bought in Saunders to do it. You and I may not like it but he's the head coach and that's the decision he made. Being a coach yourself, I'm sure you've tried to come up with ways to improve your team. They're learning a new offense but some say it just two books combined and they're not that different so that continuity in a way because you're still running plays from last season.

Charging for a scrimmage - I totally agree.

[BurgundyNGold]

Charging for a scrimmage - I totally agree.
Technically, the scrimmage was free. The $25 was for "parking", lol.

[Meatsnack]

I will submit that we can't play "Redskins Football" because we don't have the players to run a ball control offense.

Jansen hasn't been himself since before he tore his achilles.
Dockery is finally dependable but that's about it.
Rabach has had a shorter shelf life than a box of Mini Wheats.

Exhibit "A": the 1981 draft:
1 (20, 20) - Mark May, Pittsburgh
3 (13, 69) - Russ Grimm, Pittsburgh
4 (7, 90) - Tom Flick, Washington
5 (8, 119) - Dexter Manley, Oklahoma State
5 (21, 132) - Gary Sayre, Cameron
6 (10, 148) - Larry Kubin, Penn State
8 (8, 201) - Charlie Brown, South Carolina State
9 (10, 231) - Darryl Grant, Rice
10 (9, 257) - Phil Kessel, Northern Michigan
10 (19, 267) - Allan Kennedy, Washington State
11 (8, 284) - Jerry Hill, North Alabama
12 (10, 314) - Clint Didier, Portland State

We got two HOF-class players out of that draft class, Grimm and Manley. We got a consistent Pro Bowler in May and a very good DT in Grant. Brown was a weapon his entire tenure here. Clint Didier was a dependable "secret weapon" of a 6'6" TE. Joe Jacoby was an UDFA that year as well.

We don't utilize the draft anymore. Will our course of paying more for proven talent be more effective than drafting well? Remains to be seen. I have my doubts that it can be done under the constraints of the salary cap but I have been wrong before.

When we start drafting linemen high in the draft with the intention of dominating the LOS, then and only then I think will we be a successful franchise again long-term. Drafted players are young and cheap and if you can hit on them with any frequency, you can still cherry pick free-agents. It would limit us on trades like the Lloyd thing but ultimately that is a small drop in the bucket anyway.

I wonder if Dan Snyder spent as much money on a scouting department as he does on coaches if we couldn't find a way to refine and dominate player assessment? Is there a reason we don't have four times as many scouts and pay a player personnel guru a bazillion dollars to have our cake and eat it too?

And while I am ranting, how about a FO guy who doesn't blink and cough up extra picks like an asthmatic getting a prostate exam in every darn trade we pull off?

:cussing:

[GibbsFan]

blocking and tackling is 90% of football. all the schemes, big money coaches and FA are not worth a cowturd until we block and tackle well again.

our players seem to fat and happy to me right now. maybe we get it going against the Texans but right now I see us closer to imploding than coming together.

[Patrick]

Pretty funny JTF

Without Marketing this team wouldn't have money to go after players they feel they need (Santana Moss, Marcus Washington). They wouldn't be able to pay the salaries of players like Sean Taylor, Clinton Portis, Marcus Washington, Randle-El, Santana Moss, etc...You'd be paying even higher prices for tickets.

As for Big Contracts to everyone, we know they never see the entire contract and they redo contracts all the time. Do we do it more than other teams, yes but they've gotten some players for it.

Getting rid of decent players is a part of the NFL now. Eventually, all teams must do it.

Giving draft picks to everyone. Yes, they do and they do it for a reason. They would rather a bring someone in who is young and have NFL experience rather than gamble on a lot of players who may or may not pan out. Is it wrong, could be but that's how they do business.

Changing everything. I agree up to a point. We've had continuity in the coaching staff the last couple of years and even with the core of the team. Gibbs decided he wanted to improve the offense so he bought in Saunders to do it. You and I may not like it but he's the head coach and that's the decision he made. Being a coach yourself, I'm sure you've tried to come up with ways to improve your team. They're learning a new offense but some say it just two books combined and they're not that different so that continuity in a way because you're still running plays from last season.

Charging for a scrimmage - I totally agree.

THANK YOU!!!!!! ................ Couldn't agree with you more Mike!