Rocky Bandwagon: Get On [Archive] - hailRedskins.com Fan Board

skinfan43

10-09-2006, 03:35 PM

Although Holdman is hardly the reason for our Defense's woes this season, Rocky starting or at least getting some serious playing time will be something to look for from GW sooner than not. This season's Redskins defense reminds me of last season's Philadelphia Eagles defense: simply "out of it", BOTH mentally and physically.
I wondered how that could happen to a unit that was a perennial top-ten defense, to drop to like #25 (as Philly did last season) without a number of starters going down. Now I'm wondering the same thing about our own team.

GW has to regain a hold on this defense and get the nasty, gritty, confident guys on the field before this escalates into a wash of a season. Top-tier teams rely on their DLines and their OLines when they go to battle, and rise or fall as they do...we're certainly seeing both sides of that equation so far this year. As much as GW needs to get his D back, Gibbs, Bugel, and Al have got to do something to become consistent. I'd appreciate a few weeks' worth of our Texans'/Jaguars'-defeating Offense - OLine BLASTING and PROTECTING, Portis/Betts POUNDING, taking shots downfield after establishing the run...but in order to do that, the guys up front gotta want to do it EVERY WEEK!!! This has been the most puzzling thing for me as a fan thusfar: No matter how new the offensive system, or banged up our D was/is, where's the consistent "DESIRE", the consistent "NASTY", the consistent "WILL" TO DOMINATE???
Starting this upcoming game, this "Legendary Multi-Millionaire" staff has THAT as their work to re-establish within this team, if they are to play to the level we/they all expected coming into this year.
No more BS excuses or post-game explanations now. Time to put up or give up, the next four games will tell our season.
We can do this.

BurgundyNGold

10-09-2006, 03:37 PM

If Rocky isn't playing D then there's a reason. If he still isn't playing D by midseason then there's a reason we should be concerned about.

Ibleedburgundy

10-09-2006, 03:44 PM

I have been on the McIntosh bandwagon ever since he put that O-lineman on his arse in preseason. Play him! Holdman is indecisive, can't shed a block, can't cover, and is way slower than Rocky.

SkinsfaninNJ

10-09-2006, 03:51 PM

Uhhh, this thread topic is misleading.

Agreed. I was excited to think there was a voice out there to rally the masses to turn the season around, but alas just another thread questioning our coaches.

This place is depressing.

For the record, I trust GW, but I would like to see Rocky playing more too simply because he has excelled on special teams and is hopefully a part of the future that needs playing time now.

MONK_in_HOF

10-09-2006, 03:53 PM

After all the criticism that Holdman received last season, and probably rightfully so, I wanted to give him a clean slate when evaluating his play this season. I thought he played better in the first few games, but he has been beaten badly in coverage on several occasions the past couple weeks. Time to see why we moved up to select Rocky. Coach Williams heaped some pretty heavy praise on him during preseason, now it is time to see what he was talking about.

JoeJacksonTaylor28

10-09-2006, 07:18 PM

I'm in, but I don't think this would solve our BIG problems

akhhorus

10-09-2006, 07:37 PM

Holdman actually been decent this year. Rocky has looked interesting in limited action on Special Teams. But benching Holdman for Rocky doesn't solve the defense's problems.

Biggie

10-09-2006, 07:57 PM

Holdman actually been decent this year. Rocky has looked interesting in limited action on Special Teams. But benching Holdman for Rocky doesn't solve the defense's problems.

True, but having a faster lineback may help us cover the intermediate range more effectively and let our corners... no, actually, our corners will suck anyway. Rocky won't help that much.

shally

10-09-2006, 08:25 PM

no not the Skins bandwagon, its the official start Rocky Mcintosh bandwagon. I am on it, don't have to join and if Holdman gets a good game feel free to rub it in.

play rocky.. full time. starting this week and every week thereafter..

shally

10-09-2006, 08:26 PM

Holdman actually been decent this year. Rocky has looked interesting in limited action on Special Teams. But benching Holdman for Rocky doesn't solve the defense's problems.

i doubt it hurts the defense in the short run.. and in the long run we should get a profoundly better linebacker out there. rocky will get better with playing time. can you honestly say the same thing about holdman ?

RedskinRyan

10-09-2006, 10:09 PM

unless rockys playing offense, i dont think hes going to be a difference maker for this team this year.

LadyNRedskinsfan

10-09-2006, 11:38 PM

holdman has played a lot better this year than last, but id like to see rocky get more playing time on D and not just teams.

shally

10-09-2006, 11:40 PM

holdman has played a lot better this year than last, but id like to see rocky get more playing time on D and not just teams.

so has betts.. but i still want to only see portis and duckett.. same with holdman.. we need rocky to get reps...

LATrueRedskin

10-09-2006, 11:47 PM

shally

10-10-2006, 12:15 AM

Holdman is playing solid football right now. I think the last thing we need right now is another player on the field who will struggle with the defensive scheme. We have enough newcomers struggling to grasp what we do on defense.

respectfully disagree with you.. the defense overall is being gashed constantly. getting rocky reps might be a very short term negative, but i do not think so. he has far better explosiveness and athleticism and when he tackles, people go down..and he won't be making calls just following them
holdman's best days are behind him. he was an afterthought this off season whereas rock was nearly a first rounder. get him out there and let him make plays..

LATrueRedskin

10-10-2006, 12:35 AM

respectfully disagree with you.. the defense overall is being gashed constantly. getting rocky reps might be a very short term negative, but i do not think so. he has far better explosiveness and athleticism and when he tackles, people go down..and he won't be making calls just following them
holdman's best days are behind him. he was an afterthought this off season whereas rock was nearly a first rounder. get him out there and let him make plays..

I don't see how putting Rocky in will stop the gashing of the defense. If anything, it'll probably make things worse because he'll more than likely make rookie mistakes when we least need them. I just don't think our defense is at a point where we can take chances with personell on the field. We're already doing that.

I'm extremely confident Rocky will turn out to be a helluva player, but at this point we need to have the best players we have on the field. And right now, I'll take Holdman over McIntosh. Warrick's best days might be behind him, but Rocky's best days are not here yet. If we were performing the way we were last year defensively, then I would love to give Rocky a shot. But I think we just can't afford to right now.

whitskins

10-10-2006, 12:47 AM

I don't know where Rocky is mentally yet, but it would be nice to see a bit more speed on the field.

Marcus is being used almost entirely as a pass rusher and Holdman is getting worked over in coverage. He's far better than the liability he was last season, but I wouldn't be opposed to gaining some athleticism and speed at the other outside LB spot.

shally

10-10-2006, 12:49 AM

I don't see how putting Rocky in will stop the gashing of the defense. If anything, it'll probably make things worse because he'll more than likely make rookie mistakes when we least need them. I just don't think our defense is at a point where we can take chances with personell on the field. We're already doing that.

I'm extremely confident Rocky will turn out to be a helluva player, but at this point we need to have the best players we have on the field. And right now, I'll take Holdman over McIntosh. Warrick's best days might be behind him, but Rocky's best days are not here yet. If we were performing the way we were last year defensively, then I would love to give Rocky a shot. But I think we just can't afford to right now.

holdman contributed nothing to the defensive performance last year..
i am not sure how much he is contributing this year. but, the upside that rocky has is substantial and holdman has little.. rocky won't get better on the bench. play him against the titans. see how he does.
we are already starting to phase doughty in-- he was a 6th rounder. if he is worthy of playing time, rocky as a near 1st rounder should certainly deserve playing time..

PyroGenic

10-10-2006, 12:58 AM

shally

10-10-2006, 01:19 AM

true, but I would imagine that the linebacker position might be a tad more complex than a defensive tackle's.
:lol1:

let's hope doughty aint playing tackle... safety...

PyroGenic

10-10-2006, 01:33 AM

:lol1:

let's hope doughty aint playing tackle... safety...

WHOOPS!

anyway... yeah... montgomery and golston at tackle.

yes...

EDIT: got easily confused cause my mind was set on rookies that are starting for us and our defensive tackles came to mind.... and I'm a little tired.

Yeah I'll be quiet now :)

LATrueRedskin

10-10-2006, 02:55 AM

holdman contributed nothing to the defensive performance last year..
i am not sure how much he is contributing this year. but, the upside that rocky has is substantial and holdman has little.. rocky won't get better on the bench. play him against the titans. see how he does.
we are already starting to phase doughty in-- he was a 6th rounder. if he is worthy of playing time, rocky as a near 1st rounder should certainly deserve playing time..

IMO Holdman played fine last year for the time that he played; I didn't have any problems with his performance then either. He's not a big playmaker, but he's a solid linebacker. His play is much better this year.

I agree that if there's any time to play Rocky, it's against the Titans. But his role is as a backup right now, and if anything, Holdman's performance on the field shows no reason to take him out.

Doughty was in on nickel and/or dime packages, because we're so thin at DB we had to use him. That's not a good thing. I like to think we have pretty solid depth at linebacker.

smoak

10-10-2006, 08:36 AM

If Rocky isn't playing D then there's a reason. If he still isn't playing D by midseason then there's a reason we should be concerned about.

Not really. A lot of rookies take awhile to break in. the Jonathan Vilmas of the world are few and far between.

MONK_in_HOF

10-10-2006, 08:45 AM

I would personally like to see Rocky being coached up for obvious passing downs where his speed and quickness can be an asset. I think Holdman has been picked on in coverage and been decent against the run.

PennSkinsFan

10-10-2006, 09:42 AM

Been on since Holdman was declared the starter.

Dolla Bill

10-10-2006, 10:27 AM

IMO Holdman played fine last year for the time that he played; I didn't have any problems with his performance then either. He's not a big playmaker, but he's a solid linebacker. His play is much better this year.

I agree that if there's any time to play Rocky, it's against the Titans. But his role is as a backup right now, and if anything, Holdman's performance on the field shows no reason to take him out.

Doughty was in on nickel and/or dime packages, because we're so thin at DB we had to use him. That's not a good thing. I like to think we have pretty solid depth at linebacker.

I would like to know where Jimoh has been? I haven't seen him on the field at all in Nickel or Dime packages. Dear God, I cannot believe I am wanting to see a Jimoh sighting on defense. How the times have changed.

Redskinmayhem

10-10-2006, 10:31 AM

I would really like to see what we have in Rocky even if it's just a few packages per game. The guy has earned it IMHO. He runs his arse off on Teams.

Skinzsnut

10-10-2006, 12:48 PM

Holdman actually been decent this year. Rocky has looked interesting in limited action on Special Teams. But benching Holdman for Rocky doesn't solve the defense's problems.
Ur right it doesn't solve the corner problems but it can improve the D overall. If you upgrade the the weakside Lb problem here's were we can improve. Run D that was a problem against the Giants, Tiki ran all over us. Pass D, against Jacksonville however that guy is don't know the name off the top of my head the running back had a lot of yds. the Rb's and Te's also have the ball thrown to them, if we can improve against them our pass d is better. Pass rush we don't have one, a better OLB would help that by coverage or blitzing him. It doesn't solve the main problem but I welcome improvment in other areas even if its not the main one we need to improve it.

Oregonian

10-10-2006, 12:50 PM

How about moving Rocky to strong safety???

Just kidding, mostly.

I do think there should be a way to get him on the field if not as a starter, then at least in situations, like nickel packages or something, which is how alot of defensive rookies are brought along. I think we could really use a dose of athleticism on defense.

But back to the safety comment, if AA really can't cover and has been moved up to the line of scrimmage against the run, then how is he different from a linebacker in his responsibilities?

Why not put in a larger, stronger more athletic player on the field at least part of the time.

guinness4health

10-10-2006, 04:43 PM

Count me on board.....

holdman was looking was looking like a liability against the giants, as they seems to run at him (with alot of success mind you) no matter which side of the ball be lined up at....

give rocky a chance....can he really be much worse?

Skinzsnut

10-10-2006, 10:14 PM

Ur right it doesn't solve the corner problems but it can improve the D overall. If you upgrade the the weakside Lb problem here's were we can improve. Run D that was a problem against the Giants, Tiki ran all over us. Pass D, against Jacksonville however that guy is don't know the name off the top of my head the running back had a lot of yds. the Rb's and Te's also have the ball thrown to them, if we can improve against them our pass d is better. Pass rush we don't have one, a better OLB would help that by coverage or blitzing him. It doesn't solve the main problem but I welcome improvment in other areas even if its not the main one we need to improve it.
whoever not however, what I meant to say because now looking at this it doesn't make a lot of sense. Is he will cover Rb's in the passing game that area would improve and could blitz which can improve our struggling pass rush. He would improve against the run because we are weak against the run.

santanadasavior

10-10-2006, 10:17 PM

I think we will see him start by week 9, about the same as Carlos did last year.

shally

10-10-2006, 10:17 PM

Warpath23

10-11-2006, 10:13 AM

I still dont understand why he isnt playing more. Put him in & let him learn on the field. He cant do any worse than Holdman is doing. GW said several times that he doesnt things the other LB's cant do. What gives then? He can learn more on the field.

DCassain21

10-11-2006, 12:15 PM

i think they should play rocky because i think he will bring more intesity to the d and i think he'll play hugry and gritty and get something started for the d

Spence

10-11-2006, 12:20 PM

Warrick Holdman isn't to blame for the fact that our cornerbacks can't cover and our defensive ends can't stop the run.

HailVictory

10-11-2006, 12:35 PM

I agree that our defensive problems are much deeper than Holdman. Starting a rookie would no doubt be a liability, but phasing him in on some 2nd and 3rd down packages would show me they are still high on him. Nothing to complicated, just go get the QB or cover this TE. I like his ST play, but we drafted a guy to plug a hole and play sooner than later.

RoanokeSkin

10-11-2006, 12:48 PM

he is athletic and has a huge upside.. something that holdman does not have.. put him in ..

I am with you Shally... I am down with the YOUTH movement.

HailVictory

10-11-2006, 02:32 PM

I am with you Shally... I am down with the YOUTH movement.
I tend to fall on the youth movement side of the fence, but always little by little. First, let's actually give Jason the backup QB position and actually have him on the active roster for the first time! Second, put him in when the game is over one way or the other to get some real experience. Third, on those occasions where Brunell is struggling for whatever reason, let Jason come in for a possession and run the hurry up offense. We need to start sending some tangible positive messages his way (and Rocky's for that matter).

Oregonian

10-11-2006, 04:33 PM

Think about what we have done in the draft the last 2 years- paid a high premium in draft picks to get 2 guys, McIntosh and Campbell.

For McIntosh, we gave up TWO 2nd round picks!!!
(this years, next years, plus a 6th).

At that premium shouldn't this be a position we needed to fill and shouldn't this be a player who is ready to play?

redskinz#1fan

10-11-2006, 05:15 PM

unless rockys playing offense, i dont think hes going to be a difference maker for this team this year.

A difference maker is a difference maker! I'll take points anyway that I can get them right now! He might just be that spark that we need...just maybe? :whoknows:

redskinz#1fan

10-11-2006, 05:25 PM

:lol1:

let's hope doughty aint playing tackle... safety...

We would definitely have some matchup problems there! :)

redskinz#1fan

10-11-2006, 05:39 PM

IMO Holdman played fine last year for the time that he played; I didn't have any problems with his performance then either.

Are you serious?! Holdman was just horrible last year! Put it this way...he was replaced by a person that isn't even on our roster anymore! He was used in the running game last year, and couldn't shed a block to save his life. I remember a game last year, where a WR blocked him to the ground. That's just unacceptable!

He's not a big playmaker, but he's a solid linebacker. His play is much better this year.

His play couldn't have gotten any worse over last year. Now I will say that he has played some decent football this year, but he has had a couple of bad games as well. But if they were to put Rocky in, I don't think that you would see that great of a drop off (if any), because where Rocky lacks the playing time and real game time situations, he would make up for with just pure talent and athleticism. Perfect example occured in this last game. There was a play on the sideline where Holdman was waiting for the Giants offensive player to come to him, rather then him pursueing the player. Rogers ended up flying past Holdman and making the tackle. It's plays like that, which will decide if a play is a 1st down or a 4th down. Just a thought!

ryflan47

10-11-2006, 05:42 PM

Maybe mixing it up with Rocky could get something started??

redskinz#1fan

10-11-2006, 05:52 PM

For McIntosh, we gave up TWO 2nd round picks!!!(this years, next years, plus a 6th).

I thought that we only swapped 2nd round picks (from 53rd to 35th) and gave up a 6th round pick. Then we gave up a 2nd in 07 draft. So essentially we only gave up 1-2nd round pick and 1-6th round pick. Maybe that's what you said, but it was worded a little funny!

Oregonian

10-11-2006, 05:58 PM

I thought that we only swapped 2nd round picks (from 53rd to 35th) and gave up a 6th round pick. I don't think that your right about all the other picks.

Redskins Trade Up, Draft Miami LB McIntosh
By Gary Fitzgerald
Redskins.com
April 29, 2006

The Redskins selected linebacker Roger "Rocky" McIntosh from the University of Miami with the 35th overall pick in the 2006 NFL Draft.
To obtain McIntosh, the Redskins traded the 53rd pick in the second round of this year's draft, the 189th pick in the sixth round of this year's draft and a second-round pick in the 2007 NFL Draft.

Roger McIntosh, at the NFL Scouting Combine in February 2006. (AP Photo)
McIntosh is regarded as a versatile defender who is a hard-hitting, hard-working player and will fit into the aggressive style of the Redskins' defense.

Regarding the trade, head coach Joe Gibbs said: ""As we went through the draft, we had a game plan laid out. We made up our mind that if it got down to the end of the first round, we would like to try and move. We didn't feel like we were going to get [McIntosh] at 53. We worked real hard on the phone."

McIntosh, 6-2 and 231 pounds, is a versatile defender who has experience at all three linebacker positions. Last season, Miami's defense ranked fourth in the nation in total defense (270.08 ypg) and scoring defense (14.25) while leading the Division I-A ranks in pass defense (152.17 ypg).

"If I had to guess, I would say we would start him out playing outside for us," Gibbs said. "He will give us a lot of flexibility. Another thing about him is that he can rush. We feel like he is a rush guy, too."

McIntosh started 26-of-46 games at Miami. He recorded 266 tackles (127 solos) with 9.5 sacks for minus 69 yards, 32 stops for losses of 124 yards and nine pressures. He had two fumble recoveries, three forced fumbles and seven pass deflections.

In 2005, McIntosh started 11 games at strongside linebacker and led the team with 89 tackles (50 solo). He also recorded 5.5 sacks for minus 45 yards and 10 tackles for a loss of 56 yards.

Following the season, McIntosh earned All-ACC honorable mention honors for the second consecutive year and was named a Super Sleeper Team choice by the NFL Draft Report.

In 2004, McIntosh ranked second on the team with a career-high 111 tackles (37 solo). He spent the 2003 season as a reserve linebacker.

After redshirting in the 2001 season, McIntosh appeared in 12 games in 2002 with six starts and registered 43 tackles (24 solo).

McIntosh attended Gaffney High School in Gaffney, S.C. He was rated the 15th best linebacker in the country by Super Prep as a senior.

redskinz#1fan

10-11-2006, 06:01 PM

Redskins Trade Up, Draft Miami LB McIntosh
By Gary Fitzgerald
Redskins.com
April 29, 2006

The Redskins selected linebacker Roger "Rocky" McIntosh from the University of Miami with the 35th overall pick in the 2006 NFL Draft.
To obtain McIntosh, the Redskins traded the 53rd pick in the second round of this year's draft, the 189th pick in the sixth round of this year's draft and a second-round pick in the 2007 NFL Draft.

Roger McIntosh, at the NFL Scouting Combine in February 2006. (AP Photo)
McIntosh is regarded as a versatile defender who is a hard-hitting, hard-working player and will fit into the aggressive style of the Redskins' defense.

Regarding the trade, head coach Joe Gibbs said: ""As we went through the draft, we had a game plan laid out. We made up our mind that if it got down to the end of the first round, we would like to try and move. We didn't feel like we were going to get [McIntosh] at 53. We worked real hard on the phone."

McIntosh, 6-2 and 231 pounds, is a versatile defender who has experience at all three linebacker positions. Last season, Miami's defense ranked fourth in the nation in total defense (270.08 ypg) and scoring defense (14.25) while leading the Division I-A ranks in pass defense (152.17 ypg).

"If I had to guess, I would say we would start him out playing outside for us," Gibbs said. "He will give us a lot of flexibility. Another thing about him is that he can rush. We feel like he is a rush guy, too."

McIntosh started 26-of-46 games at Miami. He recorded 266 tackles (127 solos) with 9.5 sacks for minus 69 yards, 32 stops for losses of 124 yards and nine pressures. He had two fumble recoveries, three forced fumbles and seven pass deflections.

In 2005, McIntosh started 11 games at strongside linebacker and led the team with 89 tackles (50 solo). He also recorded 5.5 sacks for minus 45 yards and 10 tackles for a loss of 56 yards.

Following the season, McIntosh earned All-ACC honorable mention honors for the second consecutive year and was named a Super Sleeper Team choice by the NFL Draft Report.

In 2004, McIntosh ranked second on the team with a career-high 111 tackles (37 solo). He spent the 2003 season as a reserve linebacker.

After redshirting in the 2001 season, McIntosh appeared in 12 games in 2002 with six starts and registered 43 tackles (24 solo).

McIntosh attended Gaffney High School in Gaffney, S.C. He was rated the 15th best linebacker in the country by Super Prep as a senior.

I had already edited my post above, but here is what I said......

I thought that we only swapped 2nd round picks (from 53rd to 35th) and gave up a 6th round pick. Then we gave up a 2nd in 07 draft. So essentially we only gave up 1-2nd round pick and 1-6th round pick. Maybe that's what you said, but it was worded a little funny!

So once again, we really only gave up 1- 2nd round pick for him. The other was going to be used anyway, so we just swapped!

LATrueRedskin

10-11-2006, 06:06 PM

Are you serious?! Holdman was just horrible last year! Put it this way...he was replaced by a person that isn't even on our roster anymore! He was used in the running game last year, and couldn't shed a block to save his life. I remember a game last year, where a WR blocked him to the ground. That's just unacceptable!

.

His play couldn't have gotten any worse over last year. Now I will say that he has played some decent football this year, but he has had a couple of bad games as well. But if they were to put Rocky in, I don't think that you would see that great of a drop off (if any), because where Rocky lacks the playing time and real game time situations, he would make up for with just pure talent and athleticism. Perfect example occured in this last game. There was a play on the sideline where Holdman was waiting for the Giants offensive player to come to him, rather then him pursueing the player. Rogers ended up flying past Holdman and making the tackle. It's plays like that, which will decide if a play is a 1st down or a 4th down. Just a thought!

I am serious. Holdman wasn't a beast last year, but our defense didn't suffer much when he was in there. He had a bad game in Denver, but that's about it. So I don't think he was horrible last year.

I don't think Rocky is a "super beast" like people make him out to be. He's a good athlete, yes, but I don't think we can go around saying "pure talent and atleticism." He wasn't a big playmaker in college; we drafted him more on his smarts and ability to play both the run and the pass solidly.

I'm sure that if Rocky was too good to be sitting on the bench, Coach Williams would be playing him every down. He's learning a pretty complicated system, and he's playing good special teams. Holdman has about the same numbers as Marcus Washington, and is playing the run fairly solid. Linebacker play isn't our problem on defense, so why toy around with it?

redskinz#1fan

10-11-2006, 06:21 PM

I am serious. Holdman wasn't a beast last year, but our defense didn't suffer much when he was in there. He had a bad game in Denver, but that's about it. So I don't think he was horrible last year.

I don't think Rocky is a "super beast" like people make him out to be. He's a good athlete, yes, but I don't think we can go around saying "pure talent and atleticism." He wasn't a big playmaker in college; we drafted him more on his smarts and ability to play both the run and the pass solidly.

I'm sure that if Rocky was too good to be sitting on the bench, Coach Williams would be playing him every down. He's learning a pretty complicated system, and he's playing good special teams. Holdman has about the same numbers as Marcus Washington, and is playing the run fairly solid. Linebacker play isn't our problem on defense, so why toy around with it?

But that's just it, LB is costing us some big yards. We are getting hurt over the middle of the field (short passes) by TE's and RB's, which is a LB's duty to cover. Holdman can't cover those guys, because of speed issues. We need someone that can cover ground much better, and that can hang with the TE's & RB's coming out of the backfield.

Washington's #'s are very similar to Holdman's because he's blitzing a lot this year, so that takes him out of a lot of plays. That fact that their #'s are relatively similiar proves my point even more. Washington is still finding ways to get around the play, even coming off of the blitz. I'm not saying that Rocky is the answer, but we need a spark on this team....and Rocky may just very well be that spark!

LATrueRedskin

10-11-2006, 06:34 PM

But that's just it, LB is costing us some big yards. We are getting hurt over the middle of the field (short passes) by TE's and RB's, which is a LB's duty to cover. Holdman can't cover those guys, because of speed issues. We need someone that can cover ground much better, and that can hang with the TE's & RB's coming out of the backfield.

Washington's #'s are very similar to Holdman's because he's blitzing a lot this year, so that takes him out of a lot of plays. That fact that their #'s are relatively similiar proves my point even more. Washington is still finding ways to get around the play, even coming off of the blitz. I'm not saying that Rocky is the answer, but we need a spark on this team....and Rocky may just very well be that spark!

I've seen Marshall blow many coverages so far this season, more so than Holdman. Most of the big plays against our defense isn't from TEs and RBs in the passing game, it's WRs being open all day long.

Troy Williamson torched us on opening night, Terry Glenn had 6 catches for around 100 yards and scored a TD on a deep play, Andre Johnson had about 9 grabs for over well over 100 yards, Reggie Williams obliterated us for 2 TDs and crazy circus catches, and Burress and Carter had big plays just last week. All those players are WRs, and all those players were "covered" by our secondary.

And if Marcus Washington is blitzing the QB for most of the time, then we should be calling for Posey for a spark. Washington has done next to nothing for a pass rush. Holdman blitzes quite a bit as well; he was one of the only players I saw last week generate pressure on Eli Manning and forced a bad throw.

If we're looking for a spark, it'll be with Shawn Springs.

redskinz#1fan

10-11-2006, 06:36 PM

I've seen Marshall blow many coverages so far this season, more so than Holdman. Most of the big plays against our defense isn't from TEs and RBs in the passing game, it's WRs being open all day long.

Troy Williamson torched us on opening night, Terry Glenn had 6 catches for around 100 yards and scored a TD on a deep play, Andre Johnson had about 9 grabs for over well over 100 yards, Reggie Williams obliterated us for 2 TDs and crazy circus catches, and Burress and Carter had big plays just last week. All those players are WRs, and all those players were "covered" by our secondary.

And if Marcus Washington is blitzing the QB for most of the time, then we should be calling for Posey for a spark. Washington has done next to nothing for a pass rush. Holdman blitzes quite a bit as well; he was one of the only players I saw last week generate pressure on Eli Manning and forced a bad throw.

If we're looking for a spark, it'll be with Shawn Springs.

If he doesn't provide us a spark, then I'll be sparking something else! :D

WinnpegSkinsFan

10-11-2006, 09:11 PM

If he doesn't provide us a spark, then I'll be sparking something else! :D

:lol1: You are now on some agency's watch list.

redwolf1218

10-11-2006, 09:12 PM

i'm on, but even though Rocky is bigger, stronger and faster than Holdman, he cant play (except for special teams) because Holdman was here last year. sorry.

does Holdman play special teams? i doubt it.

on a side note, does the 32 year old, 5'-8 Patten play special teams? no. so where's Espy?

redskinz#1fan

10-11-2006, 10:06 PM

:lol1: You are now on some agency's watch list.

This is no news to me! If you knew my real name you could google me, and man would you be surprised!! :imshock:

shally

10-11-2006, 10:12 PM

redwolf1218

10-11-2006, 10:17 PM

This is no news to me! If you knew my real name you could google me, and man would you be surprised!! :imshock:
ok what is it? but i prefer yahoo to google. i hate how "google" is used as a verb.

redwolf1218

10-11-2006, 10:22 PM

linebacker play is a problem in that they are missing tackles... and the defense is giving up big plays on third down, some of them are on the linebackers..
when the strong safety is leading the game in tackles, there is a problem at linebacker.

LATrueRedskin

10-11-2006, 10:24 PM

linebacker play is a problem in that they are missing tackles... and the defense is giving up big plays on third down, some of them are on the linebackers..

Everybody is missing tackles. Yeah, I guess some of them are on the linebackers, but most of them are on the secondary. If I were an opposing offense, I would throw it deep every play. I'd either complete it or get a pass interference call. At least I'd know it wouldn't get intercepted.

redwolf1218

10-11-2006, 10:32 PM

Everybody is missing tackles. Yeah, I guess some of them are on the linebackers, but most of them are on the secondary. If I were an opposing offense, I would throw it deep every play. I'd either complete it or get a pass interference call. At least I'd know it wouldn't get intercepted.
yea Rogers has hands of stone covered in butter, but he's getting worked on bad to get that status. if he was dangerous they would avoid him and we'd never hear his name.

if Arch leads the team in tackles, we are in trouble.

LATrueRedskin

10-11-2006, 10:37 PM

yea Rogers has hands of stone covered in butter, but he's getting worked on bad to get that status. if he was dangerous they would avoid him and we'd never hear his name.

if Arch leads the team in tackles, we are in trouble.

I know. Good thing Lemar Marshall does. :D

But I see what you're saying. I guess my overall point is that we can't scapegoat a guy because our defense is awful. Our linebacker play has been our strong point (if you could call it that) thus far this season, and I don't see how putting in a rookie at linebacker would solve any problems we have at DLine and in the secondary.

redwolf1218

10-11-2006, 10:40 PM

I know. Good thing Lemar Marshall does. :D

But I see what you're saying. I guess my overall point is that we can't scapegoat a guy because our defense is awful. Our linebacker play has been our strong point (if you could call it that) thus far this season, and I don't see how putting in a rookie at linebacker would solve any problems we have at DLine and in the secondary.
i am not saying it will solve any problems. what i'm saying is, if Rocky can get some good experience and learn now, while the defense is bad anyway with Holdman in there, then why not let him get him some good experience? how much worse could it get?

shally

10-11-2006, 10:44 PM

i am not saying it will solve any problems. what i'm saying is, if Rocky can get some good experience and learn now, while the defense is bad anyway with Holdman in there, then why not let him get him some good experience? how much worse could it get?

totally agree with you.. he won't get better on the bench.. get him some serious playing time.. the sooner the better

LATrueRedskin

10-11-2006, 10:47 PM

i am not saying it will solve any problems. what i'm saying is, if Rocky can get some good experience and learn now, while the defense is bad anyway with Holdman in there, then why not let him get him some good experience? how much worse could it get?

Well, I'd like to wait until we're mathmatically eliminated from anything to start doing that type of stuff. It looks pretty bad now, but it's still early in the season (0-2 in the division and 0-3 overall), and I think we should still be putting the personell in that would give us the greatest chance of winning. And right now, I think having Holdman in there right now gives us the best chance to win.

redwolf1218

10-11-2006, 10:51 PM

Well, I'd like to wait until we're mathmatically eliminated from anything to start doing that type of stuff. It looks pretty bad now, but it's still early in the season (0-2 in the division and 0-3 overall), and I think we should still be putting the personell in that would give us the greatest chance of winning. And right now, I think having Holdman in there right now gives us the best chance to win.
that may be true, but it might not be true. i'm sure you saw the Giants run to the left at will. we will never know because the younger guys never get a chance until there's an injury to the older guys ahead of them.

they wont put the younger guys in even if we are mathematically eliminated.

shally

10-11-2006, 10:53 PM

Well, I'd like to wait until we're mathmatically eliminated from anything to start doing that type of stuff. It looks pretty bad now, but it's still early in the season (0-2 in the division and 0-3 overall), and I think we should still be putting the personell in that would give us the greatest chance of winning. And right now, I think having Holdman in there right now gives us the best chance to win.

i doubt it.. if he runs true to form, he will continue to deteriorate as the season goes on.. he won't get better, there is no reason to expect that

redwolf1218

10-11-2006, 10:55 PM

i doubt it.. if he runs true to form, he will continue to deteriorate as the season goes on.. he won't get better, there is no reason to expect that
that is a good point. how will he get better? he's already been here for a year, and he should be fully recovered from his past injury.

LATrueRedskin

10-11-2006, 10:56 PM

that may be true, but it might not be true. i'm sure you saw the Giants run to the left at will. we will never know because the younger guys never get a chance until there's an injury to the older guys ahead of them.

they wont put the younger guys in even if we are mathematically eliminated.

Oh, I definately saw it. Saw every play. Holdman, along with everybody else, played awful. But I also saw the worst gameplan from Coach Williams that I've ever seen. For the most part thus far this season, Holdman's been OK in my book.

Right now Rocky is a very good special teams player. That's his role at this point. I agree that it'll be a problem in my book if he's not on the field during scrub games.

redwolf1218

10-11-2006, 11:00 PM

Oh, I definately saw it. Saw every play. Holdman, along with everybody else, played awful. But I also saw the worst gameplan from Coach Williams that I've ever seen. For the most part thus far this season, Holdman's been OK in my book.

Right now Rocky is a very good special teams player. That's his role at this point. I agree that it'll be a problem in my book if he's not on the field during scrub games.
i have heard them say that they like to let a young guy prove himself on special teams before putting him in the game, just to let them get some exposure to the NFL. ok so Rocky has that now. so let him play.

LATrueRedskin

10-11-2006, 11:03 PM

i doubt it.. if he runs true to form, he will continue to deteriorate as the season goes on.. he won't get better, there is no reason to expect that

I haven't really seen any evidence of him deteriorating. He should have been playing instead of LaVar last year, that's for sure. I don't really expect him to get significantly better, but we don't really need him to. We need the DLine and Marcus Washington to show up. I just don't get how we could be calling for Holdmans head (and replace him with a rookie), when Marcus Washington, and the rest of the defense, has been playing terrible.

Our DLine is so non-existent, that opposing OLineman just skip them and concentrate solely on the linebackers.

There's probably a reason why Rocky isn't playing. If He was overwhelmingly showing both in practice and the classroom that he was ready to step in and be a starter, Coach Williams would have no other option then to put him in. He did it with Sean Taylor.

redwolf1218

10-11-2006, 11:04 PM

so has betts.. but i still want to only see portis and duckett.. same with holdman.. we need rocky to get reps...
we are playing the pintos and keeping the hummers in the shed. barring injury, you cant play on this team unless you were here last year.

redwolf1218

10-11-2006, 11:06 PM

Oh, I definately saw it. Saw every play. Holdman, along with everybody else, played awful. But I also saw the worst gameplan from Coach Williams that I've ever seen. For the most part thus far this season, Holdman's been OK in my book.

Right now Rocky is a very good special teams player. That's his role at this point. I agree that it'll be a problem in my book if he's not on the field during scrub games.
he will never see any time on the field in a game even if it's scrub time, unless Holdman gets injured. there really is no scrub time in an NFL game. teams can come back, so we cant take a chance on letting Rocky get any experience over Holdman. :)

shally

10-11-2006, 11:07 PM

I haven't really seen any evidence of him deteriorating. He should have been playing instead of LaVar last year, that's for sure. I don't really expect him to get significantly better, but we don't really need him to. We need the DLine and Marcus Washington to show up. I just don't get how we could be calling for Holdmans head (and replace him with a rookie), when Marcus Washington, and the rest of the defense, has been playing terrible.

Our DLine is so non-existent, that opposing OLineman just skip them and concentrate solely on the linebackers.

There's probably a reason why Rocky isn't playing. If He was overwhelmingly showing both in practice and the classroom that he was ready to step in and be a starter, Coach Williams would have no other option then to put him in. He did it with Sean Taylor.

it is simple.. rocky will get better with playing time.. he is athletic and hits hard. enough of holdman. he won't get better and the defense needs playmakers. we know that is not holdman. i will gladly take a busted assignment or 2 to get rocky in there. we put up with years of blown assignments from lavar to get his athleticism in.. why not give rocky a chance ?

LATrueRedskin

10-11-2006, 11:08 PM

he will never see any time on the field in a game even if it's scrub time, unless Holdman gets injured. there really is no scrub time in an NFL game. teams can come back, so we cant take a chance on letting Rocky get any experience over Holdman.

I meant mathmatically eliminated games, if it came to that. And, I agree, that would be a problem in my book if we don't put rookies in during that time.

shally

10-11-2006, 11:09 PM

he will never see any time on the field in a game even if it's scrub time, unless Holdman gets injured. there really is no scrub time in an NFL game. teams can come back, so we cant take a chance on letting Rocky get any experience over Holdman.

then williams is just being stubborn for the sake of being stubborn..

redwolf1218

10-11-2006, 11:10 PM

then williams is just being stubborn for the sake of being stubborn..
that's our whole coaching staff, loyalty to the incumbent, to a fault.

LATrueRedskin

10-11-2006, 11:11 PM

it is simple.. rocky will get better with playing time.. he is athletic and hits hard. enough of holdman. he won't get better and the defense needs playmakers. we know that is not holdman. i will gladly take a busted assignment or 2 to get rocky in there. we put up with years of blown assignments from lavar to get his athleticism in.. why not give rocky a chance ?

Rocky's not known for being the overly-athletic playmaker that LaVar was when he first came in here. He's known for being a solid, balanced linebacker. And yeah, LaVar blew assignments during his first years here, and our defensive unit suffered mightily because of that.

schmitty199

10-11-2006, 11:14 PM

If Rocky isn't playing D then there's a reason. If he still isn't playing D by midseason then there's a reason we should be concerned about.

I dont think its anything to be very concerned about if rocky doesnt play much at all this year. The draft is to build for the future. Sure its great when you come across a player who can step in from game 1 and play well but hte truth is theres not that many of them out there. It takes most guys 1 2 or even 3 years to develop.

redwolf1218

10-11-2006, 11:16 PM

Rocky wont get a chance until there's an injury. we lost a game 19 to 3 and no one got a chance.

akhhorus

10-11-2006, 11:17 PM

I dont think its anything to be very concerned about if rocky doesnt play much at all this year. The draft is to build for the future. Sure its great when you come across a player who can step in from game 1 and play well but hte truth is theres not that many of them out there. It takes most guys 1 2 or even 3 years to develop.

With the constant turnover in every team, you need at least 2-3 rookies to contribute immediately. You're right and you're wrong. If you make 5-7 draft picks and sign 3-5 UDFAs who make the squad, you need 3-4 of them to contribute somehow.

shally

10-11-2006, 11:26 PM

With the constant turnover in every team, you need at least 2-3 rookies to contribute immediately. You're right and you're wrong. If you make 5-7 draft picks and sign 3-5 UDFAs who make the squad, you need 3-4 of them to contribute somehow.

if rocky cannot contribute on defense in some meaningfull way (not starting or playing every down, mind you) by now, then we seriously over estimated him as a player. besides, he scored really high on the wonderlic, so there is no excuse

redwolf1218

10-11-2006, 11:29 PM

if rocky cannot contribute on defense in some meaningfull way (not starting or playing every down, mind you) by now, then we seriously over estimated him as a player. besides, he scored really high on the wonderlic, so there is no excuse
he is playing on special teams. that's all he will get until Holdman gets injured.

shally

10-11-2006, 11:34 PM

he is playing on special teams. that's all he will get until Holdman gets injured.

stone waste of a high pick, in that case..

redwolf1218

10-11-2006, 11:38 PM

stone waste of a high pick, in that case..
yep. make a trade, get Rocky, and start Holdman, and then even in a 19 to 3 loss, give Rocky zero experience, except for special teams.

shally

10-11-2006, 11:46 PM

yep. make a trade, get Rocky, and start Holdman, and then even in a 19 to 3 loss, give Rocky zero experience, except for special teams.

given how flat the defense was, i cannot see a better way to give them a spark...

guinness4health

10-16-2006, 10:51 AM

Well it is officially time to get the Rocky Bandwagon started back up....

Holdman has resorted to his 2005 self....he is no longer holding contain, he is allowing himself to get sucked into the middle of the line and leaving giant cut-back lanes.....

then to make matter worse when he is in proper position he is failing to make the play... letting the running backs get into his body and trying to wrestling the ballcarrier done.....

MY GOD I HAVE NEVER SEEN A LINEBACKER SO ADVEARSE TO HITTING AS HE WAS YESTERDAY....

if anyone has the nerve or desire to watch the tape of the game you will find Holdman getting thrown to the game on no less than 3 pathetic tackling attempts (I am hard pressed to even refer to them as tackling attempts...might be better to refer to them as attempted huggings)

Put the rook in at the very least he is going to hit somebody....