Bailey to reject offer

[PennSkinsFan]

Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17355-2003Aug19.html)

[Rat_Boy]

Cornerback Champ Bailey is poised to reject the Washington Redskins' opening contract offer, a nine-year proposal worth about $55 million, according to sources. Bailey apparently hopes the Redskins will increase their offer, but sources said yesterday that the team is seriously considering making its proposal a take-it-or-leave-it offer.

If the Redskins make their offer non-negotiable, they would be prepared to use their franchise-player tag to keep Bailey with the club next year, sources said. Bailey says he would consider suspending negotiations if there's no deal in place before the Sept. 4 season opener.According to sources, the Redskins have offered about $14.75 million in bonus money, payable in four installments. Two are guaranteed immediately and two become guaranteed if Bailey remains on the team after this season. Snyder has made a practice of having the team's larger signing bonuses payable over several installments. Generally, the signing bonus is the only guaranteed portion of an NFL contract. According to sources, the Redskins' offer to Bailey also includes other bonuses.I guess that is why the confusion on the signing bonus.

Well, it looks like the Franchise Tag 'o Commeth...

[PennSkinsFan]

I hinted at this way back immediately after the Nay interview, that signing Champ to a long term extension at the terms he wants, would be tough, if not possible. There are posters here on this board and many other boards that say they are sick oif hearing about the salary cap, but the bottom line is, the off-season new expenditures that happened, come at a price, and some of the costs may be heavy.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

I don't like the sound of this. Not one bit.

[Skinzaholic]

If we put the Tag on Champ... we can kiss him goodbye.

[NCskinsfanatic]

Originally posted by Skinzaholic
If we put the Tag on Champ... we can kiss him goodbye.
Unfortunately you couldnt be more right IMO.So afgter we limp through this season w/o a d-line we may lose our best CB?

[Brett A]

If Champ can't work out a deal before the season when the team starts the negotiations with an offer like this then. I say good bye Champ and don't let the door hit ya on the way out.

Brett A


The graveyard is full of indispensable people.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

If we kiss Champ goodbye for a pair of first-rounders, especially one that gets us a stud, high-quality, insta-starter DT, I won't be entirely disappointed. Entirely.

[NCskinsfanatic]

Originally posted by JoeDaSchmoe
If we kiss Champ goodbye for a pair of first-rounders, especially one that gets us a stud, high-quality, insta-starter DT, I won't be entirely disappointed. Entirely.
yeah i agree but the other pick better be a corner isnt Smoots contract up after this year i think he will atleast be a RFA.

[IowaSkinsFan]

If we give Champ an 18 Million dollar bonus, then the future of this organization will be in dire straits. Consider that we just gave Coles 13 million and in a few years, Samuels and Arrington's contracts will be up, they will be asking for 20 Million per. We will not be able to sustain any type of competitive team with so much money tied up in so few players. Every team needs ditch diggers and we don't have any.

Personally, I don't think Champ is worth 18 million in up front money. I can still see Rocket Ismail running by him for a long touchdown 2 years ago when the Redskins had a chance to go 6-5 and get back in the playoff hunt under Marty. Instead they dropped to 5-6 and never recovered. If you want that type of money, you should never give up a long score like that. I hope the FO holds the line on this.

[Seebs]

NCSkinfanatic: Smoot will be a RFA at the end of the year (with a 1.9m$ tender comensation would be a 1st and a 2nd rounder)

Rob11273: i agree on the bonus thing no way we go higher than 15.5M$

[GhostRider68]

I'd franchise his rear end and get 2 1st rounders out of him. Then hopefully they can draft a DT (or 2) and a CB. Defenses are built from the front 4 backwards. Why throw the ball when you can get 10 yards a carry?:banghead:

[Shabba]

This is oh so sickening.:mad:

[TexSkin]

I knew he would not take their first offer...just hope his conter proposal is not outragous. I hate agents so much.

[Seebs]

I don't know the reputation of his agent, but when we will have to deal with samuels, watch out! look at Orlando Pace situation with the rams.

[jporterweb]

Relax guys. Both sides are going to play hardball at first. It's normal. They'll work things out, Snyder isn't an idiot.

[Patrick]

A full out rejection of this offer is going to result in the "Franchise Play" tag to be used. Now some counter proposals by Jack Reale may solve this situation quickly IF they are within reason. What the Skins consider "within reason" - who knows but I don't think they want to pay CB more than $7 million per year.

That being said - FRANCHISE BAILEY - if he's not happy with the offer (which is more than fair IMO).

I strongly believe that this organization would be far better off building an awesome D-line with quality LBs. With those elements in place, average DBs is all you need. Having the greatest DBs in the game is nothing if the others teams are running all over you OR not being able generate pressure on the QB (whiich is going to kill you everytime).

[Hailyeah]

Originally posted by robert11273

Personally, I don't think Champ is worth 18 million in up front money. I can still see Rocket Ismail running by him for a long touchdown 2 years ago when the Redskins had a chance to go 6-5 and get back in the playoff hunt under Marty. Instead they dropped to 5-6 and never recovered. If you want that type of money, you should never give up a long score like that. I hope the FO holds the line on this.

It may stick out as its the last time he's been burnt. He's hands down the best in the business at his position. I won't stand for people dogging Champ for ONE play two years ago. Ridiculous to bring up. Lavar is out of position 50% of the time out there and had problems tackling last year! Lavar is the overpaid cat of the two! Samuels is no Anthony Munoz either and should be at his price.

Logically, Champ's far superior to Ty Law and therefore would demand more in the market. I don't know why his demands are surprising to some? We'll pay Coles $13M for one good season with another squad but scoff at $18M for our boy Champ. THE MAN.

And what are the deadbeats in our FO gonna do with two first round picks or the extra capspace anyway. The draft is a crapshoot. We won when Champ was picked. Why throw that away on the prospect of patching up some future need. Champ's money well spent. Its almost blasphemy to me to say otherwise.

[jporterweb]

Amen Hailyeah...Amen

[PennSkinsFan]

Hailyeah i understand your defense, but with the signing bonuses we awarded this off-season, tie that in with Lavar and Samuels and Jansen, a $18 mil bonus to Champ will strangle the organization, and Snyder knows it. These guys are not stupid. They knew that the off-season signing would press the cap too far, but they are looking for a win over the next three years approach, period. So even if we did sign Champ to a nine year deal, you can't really believe that he will be here nine years? Davis was signed for life as well. Any long contract like that is a 3-4 deal year max, then it becomes to cumbersome.

Fact here is this. The Redskins approach to give a take it or leave it approach is wrong. Champ has done nothing but play hard and win over fans and help fill the stadium. I think there should at least be wiggle room and a little negotiations. What has Champ doen to make the front office treat him that way? There is always a point to reach where the front office needs to say NO for the health of the team. BUT, why come out with that right away? Why not negotiate some and show some respect by talking back and forth. If the demand of 18 mil stays, then i say, Goodbye Champ, and good luck, we need the first rounders anyway. BUT for a guy that gave alot tot his franchise, how you can put a contract proposal down ont he table then snub him by saying take it or leave it, that is just damn bad business and disrespect.

On the other hand, Champ's $18 mil demand shows that his interest in the Redskins and the fans are minimal. Its all about money, and NO i do not accept the argument that all players are like that. This contract would give Champ a ridiculous amount of money to play with the rest of his life. Fact is i have seen players take pay cuts, offer pay cuts, to better there team, they are team oriented guys that are also committed to a franchise and a fan base. Maybe Champ is not. If Champ wants to be like Darrell, he need to show it as well.

[Hailyeah]

PSF, Champ is asking for market value for his services. I do not feel offended in the least as a fan. Straightlining an $18M bonus over 9 years vs $~15M over 9 years is only around $333k more per season. Not a dealbreaker IMO.

Why is the answer: don't sign Champ because of Lavar and Samuels already have unwieldly contracts? Doesn't make sense at all. The FO needs to renegotiate those two anyway. If one of them has to go two years down the road, it should be Samuels. He somehow made the Pro Bowl in 2002 even though his play was pretty suspect last year. Pro Bowl voting is a joke, plain and simple. The time to make a big sacrifice is not now. Not with Champ. No way. No how.

[hail2skins]

You know, I really don't like this being played out in the media/public. Champ will be hounded after each practice with microphones in his face asking about the negotiations. He's already stated that he doesn't want it to become a distraction and I believe it already has. Is the Redskins offer reseasonable. I believe so but it is only the first offer. I'd like to hear the counter offer from Reale. If the Redskins make this a take it or leave it offer, then that is bad business/treatment of a player that has produced for you. As mentioned earlier, we'll pay other team's players to come here but we won't pay our own. You can bet that Smoot, Samuals and Lavar are keeping an eye on this negotiations. I think both sides need to give a bit so that this deal can get done. Long-term deals are normally heavy in the rears but remember, they can always be renegotiated.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Originally posted by Hailyeah
It may stick out as its the last time he's been burnt. He's hands down the best in the business at his position. I won't stand for people dogging Champ for ONE play two years ago. Ridiculous to bring up. Lavar is out of position 50% of the time out there and had problems tackling last year! Lavar is the overpaid cat of the two! Samuels is no Anthony Munoz either and should be at his price.

Logically, Champ's far superior to Ty Law and therefore would demand more in the market. I don't know why his demands are surprising to some? We'll pay Coles $13M for one good season with another squad but scoff at $18M for our boy Champ. THE MAN.

And what are the deadbeats in our FO gonna do with two first round picks or the extra capspace anyway. The draft is a crapshoot. We won when Champ was picked. Why throw that away on the prospect of patching up some future need. Champ's money well spent. Its almost blasphemy to me to say otherwise.

So are you a Champ Bailey fan or a Redskin fan? Because if he gets 18 Million in a signing bonus, I'll guarantee you 2 things. 1 is that he will not play out the remaining years of his deal in Washington, i.e. Stephen Davis and 2. The Redskins will be lucky to field a .500 ball club after this year due to having so much money tied up in 4 players. You might as well start rooting for the Arizona Cardinals the day the Redskins give Bailey 18 Million up front. You may not care for Samuels and Arrington, but the fact remains they are 2 of the best at their positions and will demand at least that much when their deals come up for renewal.

And for Champ to come straight out and reject 14.75M (if it was that much) says nothing to me about his desire to play on a team and build something. It sounds to me as if he is only in it for the money. I hope he proves me wrong.

[TexSkin]

Like you aid if the offer is legit then I will not mind if he moves on. They treated him fair and he rejected it. If its not I hope they can work something out.

[Hailyeah]

Who determines fair deal here? The Redskins FO? Are we going to let them spoonfeed us what Champ deserved? I think everyone is assuming Champ is going to turn into an ass here with the negotiation. Not sure why. Dissappointing that some fans will turn on our guy thinking they understand the cap and what a fair offer is.

Robert, I am a proud Washington Redskins and Champ Bailey fan.

Also, if you were fully entrenched in the reality of our team, you'd notice that we would be fortunate to get a game or two over .500 in any of the last few years. What would a Bailey signing ruin? You act as if we have a juggernaut or an impending one? Every year is an overhaul, yet 8-8,8-8,7-9 are the results no matter who we sign or not. Are we on the right track now? Who knows? Maybe not. You act as if the Skins are the only team with several marque players. I question the general assertion in here that the money could be better spent on multiple presumably mediocre players.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Originally posted by Hailyeah
Who determines fair deal here? The Redskins FO? Are we going to let them spoonfeed us what Champ deserved? I think everyone is assuming Champ is going to turn into an ass here with the negotiation. Not sure why. Dissappointing that some fans will turn on our guy thinking they understand the cap and what a fair offer is.

Robert, I am a proud Washington Redskins and Champ Bailey fan.

Also, if you were fully entrenched in the reality of our team, you'd notice that we would be fortunate to get a game or two over .500 in any of the last few years. What would a Bailey signing ruin? You act as if we have a juggernaut or an impending one? Every year is an overhaul, yet 8-8,8-8,7-9 are the results no matter who we sign or not. Are we on the right track now? Who knows? Maybe not. You act as if the Skins are the only team with several marque players. I question the general assertion in here that the money could be better spent on multiple presumably mediocre players.

I know we are not the only team with several marqee players, but I am willing to bet we are in the definite minority of teams with 4 players with signing bonuses over 10 million dollars (Coles, Arrington, Samuels and Bailey forthwith) and 2 more at 7 million apiece (Thomas & Trotter). If someone knows where to get the info, I am willing to bet we are at or near the top in this distinction, and I am not sure it is a distinction that is fiscally sound for the cap health of a team.

Why would you want the Skins to sign Bailey to a contract that you know he has no chance of playing out in Washington? Do you want him to leave in 3 years? Whatever incentives they put into the deal, he is more than likely to achieve, thus driving future cap values higher.

I don't want to see Bailey walk and I sure don't want to see the tag used cause that just leads to hostility on both sides. But whatever future we have, or potentially have (and I am fully entrenched on the reality of this team) is seriously questionable with an 18 Million dollar bonus hanging over our collective heads.

[Hailyeah]

Deals can be renegotiated at any time in the future. No one should be writing off Champ now with 'crystal ball' logic. SD wasn't renegotiated due to his 'not fitting in' with the system. I also questioned that whole drama. The deal he ended up with in Carolina was not earthshattering as we all know. Again, if push comes to shove capwise and we can't afford all our big ticket guys, I'd say adios to Samuels, Smoot, Coles, Trotter in a year or two rather than Champ. Also, our whole organization/player acquisition policy, the coaching staff, all units, are in question right now. The landscape could be unbelievably different in three years. No one knows. All that I know is that our 25 year old blueist of blue chip performers should be paid no more or less than his market value. Whatever that amount shall be.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

I'll tell you a damn good reason why the difference between 15 million and 18 million will matter. Because it won't be spread over seven, eight, or nine years. It'll be spread over three, four, or five. And when push comes to shove and Bailey either has to renegotiate or be shown the door, the same exact thing that happened with Davis could very easily happen with him. Then we've got an extra 3 million in dead bonus cap space that we have to make room for in one year.

[Skinzaholic]

I totally agree with Hail on this one... and I think the main reason is our track record of the past seasons. We have re-built this team each off-season and still only scraped together a .500 record. It is imperative that our FO start to look within and work on actually building a team instead of buying one.

Champ has only shown class from the get go. I have a strange feeling he is simply listening to his agent on all of this. He has been perfect for us for 4 solid years now... and that sort of this MUST be reconized. By rewarding this type of player, our team attracts MORE players with character (instead of money hungry wannabe's like we have in the past). I dont want our team to be viewed as the "get rich quick" team of the NFL

Yes... a huge signing bonus may make things difficult in the future... but that is why the NFL is like it is... good nubmer guys handle the finances and work out the contracts to fit the SC. Champ is high quality thru and thru...

I say... give him a solid offer... build the team with quality... and hoist the trophy in the future.

Otherwise... we can continue to watch talent slip away and pay for nothing.

[hail2skins]

I was just about to touch on the topic of is Champ only listening to his agent. The comment he made about letting his agent handle this scares me. Is it Champ that is rejecting the offer or is it the agent (Reale) telling Champ not to accept it. We don't know this. I have sensed a cockiness in Champ that he hasn't displayed before in public. I really hope that he's telling his agent what to do and not vice versa.

By the way, I think we're already considered "the get rich quick" team.