Thanks For Playing Thread

[GWBlitzST]

I'd just like to say a big thanks to Mike Sellers, Sean Taylor, Brandon Lloyd, Santana Moss, Randle El, Rocky McIntosh, and whoever else has shown up every week with the energy and determination to win that the entire squad seemed to show at the end of last year. I miss the spark, the chemistry, and the "we're gonna beat you whatever it takes" attitude that seems to have been traded along with that 3rd rounder for TJ Duckett.

Thanks again, guys, and I hope to be seeing more of you in the future.

[BIGSEF3]

I'd just like to say a big thanks to Mike Sellers, Sean Taylor, Brandon Lloyd, Santana Moss, Randle El, Rocky McIntosh, and whoever else has shown up every week with the energy and determination to win that the entire squad seemed to show at the end of last year. I miss the spark, the chemistry, and the "we're gonna beat you whatever it takes" attitude that seems to have been traded along with that 3rd rounder for TJ Duckett.

Thanks again, guys, and I hope to be seeing more of you in the future.

why is rocky on that list? i havent seen him show up for anything yet.

[Skinzsnut]

Portis was on the John Tompson show and he said that the team doesn't have the energy and comardire it had last year. He also said that the team didn't want to see Ryan Clark and Robert Royal go, that Ryan Clark made sure that the players in the secondary were in the right places.

[dj_stouty]

Portis was on the John Tompson show and he said that the team doesn't have the energy and comardire it had last year. He also said that the team didn't want to see Ryan Clark and Robert Royal go, that Ryan Clark made sure that the players in the secondary were in the right places.

And the landslide begins...

[akhhorus]

why is rocky on that list? i havent seen him show up for anything yet.

Yeah, he took the wrong route in the end zone and gave up a TD. He was supposed to play the flat on harrison and bit on the TE route.

Portis was on the John Tompson show and he said that the team doesn't have the energy and comardire it had last year. He also said that the team didn't want to see Ryan Clark and Robert Royal go, that Ryan Clark made sure that the players in the secondary were in the right places.

I might buy Clark(but the skins wanted to keep him, he just thought he was worth Ed Reed money), but Royal? A blocking TE isn't what the offense is missing.

[GWBlitzST]

why is rocky on that list? i havent seen him show up for anything yet.
Rocky is on the list for the excitement and intensity he brings on special teams, the only time he is allowed onto the field. Notice he was the first behind Randle El on his touchdown, and he's always right in the mix when a tackle is being made.

[The Skinsinator]

And the landslide begins...You knew if anyone was going to tell the truth it would be Portis. He always does.

[silverspring]

I might buy Clark(but the skins wanted to keep him, he just thought he was worth Ed Reed money), but Royal? A blocking TE isn't what the offense is missing.

You think he is worth adam archuleta money?:rolleyes:

At some point we need to realize that overpaying a known entity that "fits" on our team can be worth it and it certainly isn't as bad as overpaying some free agent that has no history with our team. Our team loves overpaying outside free agents, but not guys that we developed ourselves. There is always something better right?

[Keino]

I might buy Clark(but the skins wanted to keep him, he just thought he was worth Ed Reed money), but Royal? A blocking TE isn't what the offense is missing.


It is when the replacement continues to make ole' blocks.....

[smoot]

It is when the replacement continues to make ole' blocks.....
cooley has been very good blocking though

[akhhorus]

You think he is worth adam archuleta money?:rolleyes:

We offered him about Arch money(well, close and Arch was never going to see a majority of that 30 million we signed him for, 20 of it is tied up in base salary from 2009-2012). And considering how poor he's been playing for the Steelers, we should have signed neither. But Arch isn't the problem with this defense.

At some point we need to realize that overpaying a known entity that "fits" on our team can be worth it and it certainly isn't as bad as overpaying some free agent that has no history with our team. Our team loves overpaying outside free agents, but not guys that we developed ourselves. There is always something better right?

Ironically, Ryan Clark was signed as a UFA. And I have no problem with this plan, but I don't want the Skins to pay an extra 20-40% just so they can say they kept their Free agents. That is a stupider plan than going after big names in Free agency. Most teams have a lot of free agent/trade starters. Denver has more than we do. That doesn't seem to be limiting them, does it?

It is when the replacement continues to make ole' blocks.....

And Royal didn't do that? He was an awful blocker. Royal literally watched Rice sack Brunell twice last year.

[akhhorus]

I would like to add that I think the comment about Royal is a swipe at Cooley's play at TE.

[danny's stogie]

Don't you love it when people hijack good threads so that they can whine some more? Didn't we have a huge vent thread for that?

[dj_stouty]

I would like to add that I think the comment about Royal is a swipe at Cooley's play at TE.

You are probably right. I didn't think about that...

Out of all of our players, the one guy I worry about mouthing off about internal issues is Portis. He has the stats...he walks the talk...and he has the big contract. When he gets upset, or he thinks all problems are outside of his person, I think we will all hear about it.

[bergiemoore]

Most of the time I see rushers blow by blockers, the blocker is usually Jansen or Fauria. I'm not saying that Cooley hasn't blown a block, or two, but I don't think that Royal would have been any better. I think that Portis is just venting about the lack of chemistry in general, and this teams turnover rate.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

We offered him about Arch money(well, close and Arch was never going to see a majority of that 30 million we signed him for, 20 of it is tied up in base salary from 2009-2012). And considering how poor he's been playing for the Steelers, we should have signed neither. But Arch isn't the problem with this defense.
He is absolutely a problem with this defense. There isn't a defender out there that isn't a problem with this defense. We have one of the worst defenses in the league. No one gets a free pass.

[akhhorus]

He is absolutely a problem with this defense. There isn't a defender out there that isn't a problem with this defense. We have one of the worst defenses in the league. No one gets a free pass.

My bad, I meant to say: he's isn't the only problem with this defense. I think the LBs have been far worse than Arch, I just don't understand why Arch gets all the venom here for the defense's failures.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Going back to the point of the thread, I am happy with the enthusiasm some of the players have shown. I am also grateful for Portis who is obviously playing hurt.
But I wish we can play with enthusiasm and inside the rules without getting personal fouls all the time. It seems very obvious that losing teams have that problem determining enthusiasm versus playing outside the rules and winning teams don't have that problem.

[bergiemoore]

I'd like to thank Derrick Dockery for playing like he's about to be a FA. (D'oh!)

[openallnight]

And Royal didn't do that? He was an awful blocker. Royal literally watched Rice sack Brunell twice last year.
I thought Royal was an awful blocker until we brought in Fauria. He has redefined the position of "awful blocker".

[SkinsfaninNJ]

My bad, I meant to say: he's isn't the only problem with this defense. I think the LBs have been far worse than Arch, I just don't understand why Arch gets all the venom here for the defense's failures.
Agreed. He and Carter have not been as bad as everyone wants to make them out to be. The corners are dreadful which makes Arch look that much worse. Hopefully having Springs and Rogers at or near 100% can improve the secondary. But add on top of the swiss cheese secondary, the lack of a pass rush and the entire team's poor tackling, it just spells disaster.

[csquared]

I'd just like to say a big thanks to Mike Sellers, Sean Taylor, Brandon Lloyd, Santana Moss, Randle El, Rocky McIntosh, and whoever else has shown up every week with the energy and determination to win that the entire squad seemed to show at the end of last year. I miss the spark, the chemistry, and the "we're gonna beat you whatever it takes" attitude that seems to have been traded along with that 3rd rounder for TJ Duckett.

Thanks again, guys, and I hope to be seeing more of you in the future.

:banghead: You have me scratching my head as to why Rocky is on there. He has 6 total tackles. Not sure he has done anything at all. Brandon Llloyd? 11 catches for 164 yards with a lost fumble. That fumble almost cost us the Jax game. Also Lloyd got 52 of his yards on 1 catch. We win as a team and lose as a team. Football is team sport. You get nothing for individual stats. As a team we have stunk this year. Offense and Defense.

[skinfan43]

GWBST, good thread bro.
I got:
PRESENT(offense): Moss, Portis, Brunell (more than ABSENT, and yes, MB has heart IMO), Sellers, ARE, Thomas, Dockery, and Betts.
ABSENT: Jansen, Cooley, Rabach, Samuels, Lloyd, WHAT HAPPENED TO PATTEN, BTW?, TJ (gotta assume he's a slow learner until we know otherwise), Saunders, Gibbs (yep, gotta call them out).
PRESENT(defense): Golston, Monty, Evans, Wynn on the line...yep, sad ain't it? No Linebackers at all, 'cept Rocky and Campbell on special teams, Taylor, Rumph (at times) and Springs (only recently, and expect much more vs Dallass). Pathetic number IMO...
ABSENT: Carter (but improving), Griff (injuries, but still absent), Big Joe (same reason), Daniels (inconsistent), ALL starting linebackers, Arch, Rogers, need I say Wright?, Doughty, Jimoh (he piss anyone off or something?), and of course GW.
Special Teams: Coverage units have been ok, but too weak on kickoffs, but that's mostly because, YET AGAIN, we have no kicker, = ABS ENT. Frost = ABSENT (inconsistent). Return game guys (blockers, ARE, and Rock = PRESENT (our best part of the team so far, sadly). Danny Smith = PRESENT, IMO...but get the F/O to get us a REAL punter and kicker someday soon , PLEASE!

Man, this sucks...hope I can make some changes to this list starting with the Dallass game after the bye...

[silverspring]

We offered him about Arch money(well, close and Arch was never going to see a majority of that 30 million we signed him for, 20 of it is tied up in base salary from 2009-2012). And considering how poor he's been playing for the Steelers, we should have signed neither. But Arch isn't the problem with this defense.



Ironically, Ryan Clark was signed as a UFA. And I have no problem with this plan, but I don't want the Skins to pay an extra 20-40% just so they can say they kept their Free agents. That is a stupider plan than going after big names in Free agency. Most teams have a lot of free agent/trade starters. Denver has more than we do. That doesn't seem to be limiting them, does it?


I have read you saying this over and over, but as I recall we offered clark ok money but nothing near archuleta's contract. I don't believe it was even close especially in terms of signing bonus. I don't even remember if the skins fully disclosed what we offered clark. You got the numbers?

Yeah clark was a free agent, but he was here for years making low money and developed into a starter on the GW defense. So why don't we pay him starter money.

And Archuleta is a huge problem on this defense. Mostly because he has no cover skills and when you make someone one of the highest paid safeties in the league you don't expect him to only play run support, he is suppose to be the full package. Archuleta is a bad fit for our system, unless he was paid at a rate that made it ok to never play him on 3rd down. He is great at run support, but he is a defensive back he needs to be able to cover better, you just don't make such a one dimensional player the highest paid safety in the league.

[MONK_in_HOF]

Rocky is on the list for the excitement and intensity he brings on special teams, the only time he is allowed onto the field. Notice he was the first behind Randle El on his touchdown, and he's always right in the mix when a tackle is being made.

Same with the Rock kick return for a TD.

[MONK_in_HOF]

I have read you saying this over and over, but as I recall we offered clark ok money but nothing near archuleta's contract. I don't believe it was even close especially in terms of signing bonus. I don't even remember if the skins fully disclosed what we offered clark. You got the numbers?

That is what I recall as well. I don't remember ever seeing the disclosure of what the Redskins offered Clark. I thought the speculation on local sports talk radio was they were low balling Clark. Akh do you have a link for where those figures came from?

[akhhorus]

I have read you saying this over and over, but as I recall we offered clark ok money but nothing near archuleta's contract. I don't believe it was even close especially in terms of signing bonus. I don't even remember if the skins fully disclosed what we offered clark. You got the numbers?

5 years 18 million front loaded is one figure I remember reading, but i recall they also upped it to 6 years 20-23 million. He turned down both thinking he would get more. Thats a more than fair offer for Clark, also considering that the best offer he got on the open market(which he took) was 4 years, 7 million. As a reference, Arch did get 30 million, but its really a 3 year 8 million dollar deal with heavy backloading he'll never see no matter what.

Yeah clark was a free agent, but he was here for years making low money and developed into a starter on the GW defense. So why don't we pay him starter money.

He offered him starter's money. He wasn't worth(and has showed that in Pittsburgh) 5 million a year. Unless we should pay our "homegrown" players top money no matter what.

And Archuleta is a huge problem on this defense. Mostly because he has no cover skills and when you make someone one of the highest paid safeties in the league you don't expect him to only play run support, he is suppose to be the full package. Archuleta is a bad fit for our system, unless he was paid at a rate that made it ok to never play him on 3rd down. He is great at run support, but he is a defensive back he needs to be able to cover better, you just don't make such a one dimensional player the highest paid safety in the league.

For the last time: He isn't the highest paid safety in the league. Reed is, and its NOT close. And he's been a liability in coverage, but Marcus Washington has been worse as a defender than he's been. Arch is a run supporter, and has done well in that, but he's never been a coverage safety and Springs' injury forced him to play back more. With Prioleau's injury, we didn't have a 3rd Safety to play back until we signed Vincent.

[akhhorus]

That is what I recall as well. I don't remember ever seeing the disclosure of what the Redskins offered Clark. I thought the speculation on local sports talk radio was they were low balling Clark. Akh do you have a link for where those figures came from?

I wish I did, but I clearly remember that we made him that big an offer and he passed. I can't find any links for the exact numbers now.

[MONK_in_HOF]

I wish I did, but I clearly remember that we made him that big an offer and he passed. I can't find any links for the exact numbers now.
Not saying you aren't right, just would like to see what we offered him if it is out there.

[akhhorus]

Not saying you aren't right, just would like to see what we offered him if it is out there.

I understand and I've been looking for a legit source on that. The problem is there's no solid source like for signed contract figures.

[redwolf1218]

I understand and I've been looking for a legit source on that. The problem is there's no solid source like for signed contract figures.
as soon as he said he was determined to stay, i knew he would leave, same as the others.

[silverspring]

5 years 18 million front loaded is one figure I remember reading, but i recall they also upped it to 6 years 20-23 million. He turned down both thinking he would get more. Thats a more than fair offer for Clark, also considering that the best offer he got on the open market(which he took) was 4 years, 7 million. As a reference, Arch did get 30 million, but its really a 3 year 8 million dollar deal with heavy backloading he'll never see no matter what.



He offered him starter's money. He wasn't worth(and has showed that in Pittsburgh) 5 million a year. Unless we should pay our "homegrown" players top money no matter what.



For the last time: He isn't the highest paid safety in the league. Reed is, and its NOT close. And he's been a liability in coverage, but Marcus Washington has been worse as a defender than he's been. Arch is a run supporter, and has done well in that, but he's never been a coverage safety and Springs' injury forced him to play back more. With Prioleau's injury, we didn't have a 3rd Safety to play back until we signed Vincent.

Well if that was the offer then you are correct it was decent, but still not close to arch's. I think part of the problem was that didn't we bring in arch in before we concluded working with clark. And I disagree that clark wasn't worth starter money, he looks at least as good as arch. Either way imo we clearly overpaid for arch.

It doesn't matter anyways, we can't fix the past. But my point is that if we are going to overpay someone i would rather overpay homegrown players, especially high character players that are "true redskins". I just hope gibbs and the rest of the FO is learning some lessons.

If we kept guys like pierce, clark, smoot, and even royal we would have overpaid. But compared to what we did we would have had more of a cap surplus, more draft pics and imo as a whole they were better players than their replacements and certainly their knowledge of the system and the consistency of these guys would have helped.

[Phonte]

And Royal didn't do that? He was an awful blocker. Royal literally watched Rice sack Brunell twice last year. Yea, but we didn't draft Royal to be a blocking TE. That was a Spurrier pick... (and he couldn't catch either)

Fauria was signed as a veteran and a blocking TE. Thus far, all I've seen is him whiffing on blocks and being confused by simple blitzes and stunts.

[akhhorus]

Well if that was the offer then you are correct it was decent, but still not close to arch's. I think part of the problem was that didn't we bring in arch in before we concluded working with clark. And I disagree that clark wasn't worth starter money, he looks at least as good as arch. Either way imo we clearly overpaid for arch.

I don't disagree that Arch is "overpaid", but he's different kind of safety to Clark. We wanted an attacking safety, and because of springs' injury and Rogers' incompetence, Arch had to play back, which he's wasted on. Would clark have been a better coverage safety than Arch? Sure. But we didn't know that Rogers would regress this badly and we didn't know Springs wouldn't play much the first 7 weeks. At the time, it was the right decision. And Arch will be cut after the year and not cost us much. Unless he pulls it together.

It doesn't matter anyways, we can't fix the past. But my point is that if we are going to overpay someone i would rather overpay homegrown players, especially high character players that are "true redskins". I just hope gibbs and the rest of the FO is learning some lessons.

I would rather not overpay anyone. Homegrown or FA. BUT, if it comes down to paying a more talented FA 225-30% more than he's worth instead of keeping some player who wants twice what he's worth, I'll pay the FA. Arch is still more talented than Clark.

If we kept guys like pierce, clark, smoot, and even royal we would have overpaid. But compared to what we did we would have had more of a cap surplus, more draft pics and imo as a whole they were better players than their replacements and certainly their knowledge of the system and the consistency of these guys would have helped.

Based on the presumption that they would be as good before their big deal was signed. Thats a big one. Smoot hasn't been the player he was with us since signing his big deal with the Vikings.

Yea, but we didn't draft Royal to be a blocking TE. That was a Spurrier pick... (and he couldn't catch either)

Fauria was signed as a veteran and a blocking TE. Thus far, all I've seen is him whiffing on blocks and being confused by simple blitzes and stunts.

So, he was a receiving TE? Last year we were are complaining how many drops he had(especially in key situations), so why exactly should we have kept him?

[Phonte]

So, he was a receiving TE? Last year we were are complaining how many drops he had(especially in key situations), so why exactly should we have kept him? Kept him? He sucked donkey balls. I was just saying he was never supposed to be a blocking TE.

Fauria on the other hand...

[silverspring]

I don't disagree that Arch is "overpaid", but he's different kind of safety to Clark. We wanted an attacking safety, and because of springs' injury and Rogers' incompetence, Arch had to play back, which he's wasted on. Would clark have been a better coverage safety than Arch? Sure. But we didn't know that Rogers would regress this badly and we didn't know Springs wouldn't play much the first 7 weeks. At the time, it was the right decision. And Arch will be cut after the year and not cost us much. Unless he pulls it together.

Yeah i just figure when GWs whole d is based on blitzing and leaving corners and safeties with a lot of responsibility you don't get a guy that is a known liability in coverage. And I think safeties that just do run support are fairly easy to come by so i don't know why we couldn't find someone cheaper. But you are right that he is probably being given more responsibility than originally intended.

Can we really cut arch after this season without huge cap hits, i thought we were committed to him?

I would rather not overpay anyone. Homegrown or FA. BUT, if it comes down to paying a more talented FA 225-30% more than he's worth instead of keeping some player who wants twice what he's worth, I'll pay the FA. Arch is still more talented than Clark.

I wish we wouldn't overpay anyone either, but we have precedent upon precedent of doing it. Even when we don't do it we generally make the contract look like we did it until you realize it is designed to cut the guy in a couple years.

Based on the presumption that they would be as good before their big deal was signed. Thats a big one. Smoot hasn't been the player he was with us since signing his big deal with the Vikings.


Smoot has had some problems, no doubt. We all know smoot was injury prone cause of his size and I wasn't that against letting him go at the time, but in hindsight i still think he would have had a positive impact here. I still think we would have drafted a corner either this year or last year even if we had smoot. But we would have been in a position where there would have been a rotation with that corner and smoot.

[redwolf1218]

And Arch will be cut after the year and not cost us much. Unless he pulls it together.


do you really think he'll be cut after this year? i think he plays more minutes on defense than anyone except maybe Taylor.

[Keino]

And Royal didn't do that? He was an awful blocker. Royal literally watched Rice sack Brunell twice last year.


He did. I think letting Royal go was a smart move. But I tend to believe Clinton when he speaks, and so I buy what he's saying. Royal may have been one of those gusy who was a great teamate.....who knows.


I would like to add that I think the comment about Royal is a swipe at Cooley's play at TE.

Now I hadn't thought of that, and now that you mention it, that is very likely. Somehting isn't right with Cooley. He is either being misused, or he is not suited for the nuances of the Saunders scheme.......or a combination thereof.

[akhhorus]

Yeah i just figure when GWs whole d is based on blitzing and leaving corners and safeties with a lot of responsibility you don't get a guy that is a known liability in coverage. And I think safeties that just do run support are fairly easy to come by so i don't know why we couldn't find someone cheaper. But you are right that he is probably being given more responsibility than originally intended.

Because Archuleta, all flaws aside is actually a very good safety when used properly. We're not doing that right now. Having Vincent now allows us to play Arch up as a 3rd LB in the nickel.

Can we really cut arch after this season without huge cap hits, i thought we were committed to him?

5ish million signing bonus. We would have 3.5ish million dead cap, but thats not much really.

I wish we wouldn't overpay anyone either, but we have precedent upon precedent of doing it. Even when we don't do it we generally make the contract look like we did it until you realize it is designed to cut the guy in a couple years.

Thats the thing. We rarely get burned by big contracts because we put some many loopholes in it that we can wriggle out of it without much problem. There is some speculation that this is why Smoot, Champ and Pierce passed on our offers. Champ got a heavily front loaded deal from the Broncos, we offered almost as much money, but backloaded it.

Smoot has had some problems, no doubt. We all know smoot was injury prone cause of his size and I wasn't that against letting him go at the time, but in hindsight i still think he would have had a positive impact here. I still think we would have drafted a corner either this year or last year even if we had smoot. But we would have been in a position where there would have been a rotation with that corner and smoot.

Not at #9 for sure, but who knows. Smoot was a good player, but not worth his demands.

[SkinsKY]

You are probably right. I didn't think about that...

Out of all of our players, the one guy I worry about mouthing off about internal issues is Portis. He has the stats...he walks the talk...and he has the big contract. When he gets upset, or he thinks all problems are outside of his person, I think we will all hear about it.

I mentioned to Fent the other day that you can tell a lot about the locker room atmosphere by listening to Portis. I hate to hear him talk like that, but he says some of the things that I'm thinking and he still works his tail despite everything. He just wants carries and to win games, he got it last year, but doesn't get either this year. There's a correlation between the two that Saunders should figure out because this kid is good.

[akhhorus]

He did. I think letting Royal go was a smart move. But I tend to believe Clinton when he speaks, and so I buy what he's saying. Royal may have been one of those gusy who was a great teamate.....who knows.

Now I hadn't thought of that, and now that you mention it, that is very likely. Somehting isn't right with Cooley. He is either being misused, or he is not suited for the nuances of the Saunders scheme.......or a combination thereof.

I have lost count of how many times I've seen Cooley screw up a route because the DE pushed him down on the Line of Scrimmage. Brunell has looked his way a ton, but Cooley isn't where he's supposed to me. His blocking has been okay from what I've seen, but I really thing the Royal comment was a jab at Cooley.

do you really think he'll be cut after this year? i think he plays more minutes on defense than anyone except maybe Taylor.

If Vincent plays well, Arch will be cut i think. Vincent has a 3 year deal with us, not a 1 year one.

[redskin_rich]

I mentioned to Fent the other day that you can tell a lot about the locker room atmosphere by listening to Portis. I hate to hear him talk like that, but he says some of the things that I'm thinking and he still works his tail despite everything. He just wants carries and to win games, he got it last year, but doesn't get either this year. There's a correlation between the two that Saunders should figure out because this kid is good.
It's kind of hard when Portis is hurting all over and taking himself out of the game constantly. Nobody seems to be mentioning that but it is impossible to establish any rhythm when your stud RB is in and out all day. Now that he has this high ankle sprain, I really would rather the Skins just sit him for a few weeks and see what Duckett can do. Why not, that is what they brought him here for, no?

[redwolf1218]

If Vincent plays well, Arch will be cut i think. Vincent has a 3 year deal with us, not a 1 year one.
but you know as well as i do that they dish out long term deals without really figuring on honoring them. Vincent is a little long in the tooth.

[redwolf1218]

It's kind of hard when Portis is hurting all over and taking himself out of the game constantly. Nobody seems to be mentioning that but it is impossible to establish any rhythm when your stud RB is in and out all day. Now that he has this high ankle sprain, I really would rather the Skins just sit him for a few weeks and see what Duckett can do. Why not, that is what they brought him here for, no?
i would love to see what Duckett can do. this is why he was brought in. it seems to me that Portis is not in game shape. they always show him sucking on the oxygen mask after only a few plays.

[SkinsKY]

It's kind of hard when Portis is hurting all over and taking himself out of the game constantly. Nobody seems to be mentioning that but it is impossible to establish any rhythm when your stud RB is in and out all day. Now that he has this high ankle sprain, I really would rather the Skins just sit him for a few weeks and see what Duckett can do. Why not, that is what they brought him here for, no?

It is hard, but it's not his fault he's hurt and it's not like he pulls himself out so he can go tell a joke to someone. He was in a ton last year because he was healthy. There's a line this year though because he can sit out a little more and make sure he takes care of his body, or he can keep himself in and continue to aggraavate his injuries. Some will want him to rest and some will want him to play, but there are clear pros and cons to each choice. I would like to see Duckett in there as well. Surely he's had time to learn at least a couple hundred pages by now. Get him on the field.

[redskin_rich]

It is hard, but it's not his fault he's hurt and it's not like he pulls himself out so he can go tell a joke to someone. He was in a ton last year because he was healthy. There's a line this year though because he can sit out a little more and make sure he takes care of his body, or he can keep himself in and continue to aggraavate his injuries. Some will want him to rest and some will want him to play, but there are clear pros and cons to each choice. I would like to see Duckett in there as well. Surely he's had time to learn at least a couple hundred pages by now. Get him on the field.
I totally understand what is happening and I'm not blaming CP for being banged up. There is clearly a difference when he is in the game and when he is not. I just think it would be better to rest him until he is completely healthy and gameplan with Betts/Duckett. That way Al Saunders can have more control over the personnel on the field during each game. There are pros and cons to each side but I tend to think having a plan and being able to stick with it is better than constantly having to change things up relying on the health of a banged up RB.

[redwolf1218]

I totally understand what is happening and I'm not blaming CP for being banged up. There is clearly a difference when he is in the game and when he is not. I just think it would be better to rest him until he is completely healthy and gameplan with Betts/Duckett. That way Al Saunders can have more control over the personnel on the field during each game. There are pros and cons to each side but I tend to think having a plan and being able to stick with it is better than constantly having to change things up relying on the health of a banged up RB.
i believe Saunders is learning about his new players just as much as his new players are learning about him. they are trying to get in sync.

[LuvSkins17]

Wow.... writing something about "Thanks For Playing" would be kinda silly at this point....

For the guys not thanked, I hope they can evaluate "themselves" during this bye week and come back ready to give there ALL. At this point it seems no ones job is truely safe.

[redwolf1218]

Wow.... writing something about "Thanks For Playing" would be kinda silly at this point....

For the guys not thanked, I hope they can evaluate "themselves" during this bye week and come back ready to give there ALL. At this point it seems no ones job is truely safe.
everyone's job is safe. that's why guys like Rock and Thrash and Holdman play while guys lke Duckett and Espy and Rocky sit on the sidelines.

[Skinzsnut]

Yeah, he took the wrong route in the end zone and gave up a TD. He was supposed to play the flat on harrison and bit on the TE route.



I might buy Clark(but the skins wanted to keep him, he just thought he was worth Ed Reed money), but Royal? A blocking TE isn't what the offense is missing.
I am just repeating what Portis said, don't argue with me argue with him. Me personally I don't think Ryan Clark wanted Ed Reed money u can provide me a link and prove me wrong but I don't. Rober Royal I thought he sucked, I am just repeating what Portis said.

[akhhorus]

I am just repeating what Portis said, don't argue with me argue with him.

I'm not arguing with you. I just find it funny that Portis is bemoaning the loss of substandard TE unless there is an alterior motive.

Me personally I don't think Ryan Clark wanted Ed Reed money u can provide me a link and prove me wrong but I don't.

Ed Reed money is 18 million in guaranteed money and 40-46 million total. Thats nowhere near what Clark was demanding supposedly.

Rober Royal I thought he sucked, I am just repeating what Portis said.

It would have been nice if you offered an actual "opinion" along with that before. Since you didn't one can only conclude that you agreed with it.

[Skinzsnut]

He did. I think letting Royal go was a smart move. But I tend to believe Clinton when he speaks, and so I buy what he's saying. Royal may have been one of those gusy who was a great teamate.....who knows.



Now I hadn't thought of that, and now that you mention it, that is very likely. Somehting isn't right with Cooley. He is either being misused, or he is not suited for the nuances of the Saunders scheme.......or a combination thereof.
I agree I think letting Royal go was a smart move, as for Cooley one of my friends that coaches football and has a winning record says that Cooley is a H-back and not a pure Te, but I am not sold on that. When watching Kansas City play last year for a couple of games, Al liked to get the ball to the recievers and running back first taking the attention away from Tony and than freeing him up for one on one's exploiting them. I think when the vertical pass becomes established (if it does) than they will start throwing underneath and Cooley would get big numbers, Al likes to use his Te in the red zone. I also think that with defenses playing us close that Cooley has a hard time getting open, he needs one on one's. I also don't know why they don't use Cooley in screens, he was really good at them last year.

[Skinzsnut]

It would have been nice if you offered an actual "opinion" along with that before. Since you didn't one can only conclude that you agreed with it.[/QUOTE]
alright understandable, I think we should have kept Clark, I don't know the whole story though.

[akhhorus]

alright understandable, I think we should have kept Clark, I don't know the whole story though.

How are supposed to know that you disagree with it if you don't tell us until a day or so after you post that thought?

[redskin_rich]

Does somebody want to explain what they think is wrong with Cooley this year? Because I think he is doing just fine. He struggled the first few games but has looked good for the last two. His numbers are right in line with last year's and that is with extra attention he is getting now. And I think he has blocked better than ever. He doesn't stay in on pass protection, so that can't be blamed on him.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

You can label Cooley anything you want, H-back, TE, etc. The bottom line is the guy is a difference maker. He may have struggled to hook up with Brunell the first couple of games, but that is not an issue now.

He makes our team better.

[danny's stogie]

I'm not arguing with you. I just find it funny that Portis is bemoaning the loss of substandard TE unless there is an alterior motive.



Ed Reed money is 18 million in guaranteed money and 40-46 million total. Thats nowhere near what Clark was demanding supposedly.



It would have been nice if you offered an actual "opinion" along with that before. Since you didn't one can only conclude that you agreed with it.

It might have been a shot at Fauria.

[MONK_in_HOF]

It might have been a shot at Fauria.

That was the feeling I got as well. Cooley has proven his ability to Portis, Fauria on the other hand.... :whoknows: Plus Fauria was the replacement for Royal, not Cooley.

[bergiemoore]

Does somebody want to explain what they think is wrong with Cooley this year? Because I think he is doing just fine. He struggled the first few games but has looked good for the last two. His numbers are right in line with last year's and that is with extra attention he is getting now. And I think he has blocked better than ever. He doesn't stay in on pass protection, so that can't be blamed on him.

Cooley hasn't been taking shots down field, and that's really hurt the running game. He's also been blowing coverages, allowing big plays by opposing teams.

Seriously, I have noticed only once where Cooley has dropped a pass he should have made, and once where he was knocked down at the LOS when he was the primary receiver.

I thought the Royal comment was a jab at Fauria. He is the new guy brought in to make this team better. He's the one that I've seen playing El Matador with DEs and LBs.

[akhhorus]

It might have been a shot at Fauria.

Fauria is a part time player at TE. Royal was the starter last year, and Cooley is the starter now.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Fauria is a part time player at TE. Royal was the starter last year, and Cooley is the starter now.
But there are plenty of video clips of Cooley and Portis clowning around together. Obviously friends can call each other out if someone is not living up to their potential, but its not likely to happen. Maybe it was meant more as a compliment to Royal rather than a slap at someone currently on the roster.
Also, I think the underlying theme among the players seems to be stop with the turnover each season. We have to get used to playing with each other to sustain long term success.

[danny's stogie]

Fauria is a part time player at TE. Royal was the starter last year, and Cooley is the starter now.

Yeah, I'm not sure, if the general gripe from players is the constant turnover then the natural target is Fauria. That said -- and I've mentioned this before -- I think Cooley slacked off this offseason and let himself slip. He looks a little better now than he did early this year, but considering that Portis probably knows all of Cooley's personal habits it very well may be a swipe at him.

[frankez99]

I'd just like to say a big thanks to Mike Sellers, Sean Taylor, Brandon Lloyd, Santana Moss, Randle El, Rocky McIntosh, and whoever else has shown up every week with the energy and determination to win that the entire squad seemed to show at the end of last year. I miss the spark, the chemistry, and the "we're gonna beat you whatever it takes" attitude that seems to have been traded along with that 3rd rounder for TJ Duckett.

Thanks again, guys, and I hope to be seeing more of you in the future.

My thanks go out to (in addition to yours):

Ladell Betts and James Thrash

Insignificant on the whole? Yeah....but....these dudes do the little things right....all the time.

[akhhorus]

But there are plenty of video clips of Cooley and Portis clowning around together. Obviously friends can call each other out if someone is not living up to their potential, but its not likely to happen. Maybe it was meant more as a compliment to Royal rather than a slap at someone currently on the roster.
Also, I think the underlying theme among the players seems to be stop with the turnover each season. We have to get used to playing with each other to sustain long term success.

I doubt that Portis would be complaining about some stiff TE if he was going to complain about turnover on the team. And I don't care if Portis and Cooley do a "redskins gone wild" video together, Portis will still call him out, subtlely or not.

[MONK_in_HOF]

I doubt that Portis would be complaining about some stiff TE if he was going to complain about turnover on the team. And I don't care if Portis and Cooley do a "redskins gone wild" video together, Portis will still call him out, subtlely or not.

He might if he had a tight relationship w/ Royal and felt he was a good locker room guy.

[akhhorus]

He might if he had a tight relationship w/ Royal and felt he was a good locker room guy.

Possible, but Portis would have specifically complained about that we lost X when we lost Royal.

[Phonte]

I might buy Clark(but the skins wanted to keep him, he just thought he was worth Ed Reed money), but Royal? A blocking TE isn't what the offense is missing. I don't buy that at all about Ryan. He didnt' want $$$, he just wanted to start.

We were getting AA no matter what and Ryan wasn't going to stay to be a back up. I'll look for the articles, but I know he signed for almost the minimum by Pitt.

[akhhorus]

I don't buy that at all about Ryan. He didnt' want $$$, he just wanted to start.

He was the starter and would have stayed the starter. They only went after Arch after Clark rejected the offer.

We were getting AA no matter what and Ryan wasn't going to stay to be a back up. I'll look for the articles, but I know he signed for almost the minimum by Pitt.

No we weren't. They clearly wanted to keep him. They were talking a new deal with him before the season ended. Arch was one of the later free agents they brought in. Yes he signed for 4 years 7 million from pittsburgh, but thats because he thought he would make more on the open market and didn't. We offered him more than that.

[skinfan43]

He was the starter and would have stayed the starter. They only went after Arch after Clark rejected the offer.



No we weren't. They clearly wanted to keep him. They were talking a new deal with him before the season ended. Arch was one of the later free agents they brought in. Yes he signed for 4 years 7 million from pittsburgh, but thats because he thought he would make more on the open market and didn't. We offered him more than that.
Any possibility that we cut Ach if he continues to blow in coverage, and the Steelers cut Clark because he seems to suck for them, period...and we sign Clark back again, like Coles to the Jets from here? Or just wishful thinking?
(Or maybe Arch should take just some more supplments...FOR HIS BRAIN! Dude is definitely physical, but a BOZO on assignments almost all the time and sometimes on tackling angles as well, both of which could be rectified by EXERCISING HIS FREAKIN' MIND during film study,personal study, and coaching during the practice week, right??!!)

[Phonte]

He was the starter and would have stayed the starter. They only went after Arch after Clark rejected the offer.



No we weren't. They clearly wanted to keep him. They were talking a new deal with him before the season ended. Arch was one of the later free agents they brought in. Yes he signed for 4 years 7 million from pittsburgh, but thats because he thought he would make more on the open market and didn't. We offered him more than that. Clark was quoted saying he would stay in Washington for less money. You're probably right, we don't know what the contract offers were and we can't go by what Ryan says.

In the bigger picture, whatever Ryan wanted couldn't have been anywhere near what AA got paid.

[akhhorus]

Clark was quoted saying he would stay in Washington for less money. You're probably right, we don't know what the contract offers were and we can't go by what Ryan says.

We've heard that from Smoot and Pierce, and they both lied. I don't think it was that, I think Clark thought he was worth a ton of money, got an offer from us he thought was less than he deserved, rejected thinking he would get more(or the same) and ended up getting a whole lot less than he thought he would get.

In the bigger picture, whatever Ryan wanted couldn't have been anywhere near what AA got paid.

I wouldn't be surprised if his agent had him expecting more than what Arch got. Reportedly, he got an offer from us for in the same ballpark as Arch.

[Phonte]

We've heard that from Smoot and Pierce, and they both lied. I don't think it was that, I think Clark thought he was worth a ton of money, got an offer from us he thought was less than he deserved, rejected thinking he would get more(or the same) and ended up getting a whole lot less than he thought he would get.



I wouldn't be surprised if his agent had him expecting more than what Arch got. Reportedly, he got an offer from us for in the same ballpark as Arch. I seriously doubt a journeyman SS would be expecting to break the bank. It's extremely rare in this league for Safeties to get any money; especiallly SS's it's one of the cheapest positions to fill. AA and Reed are the first of the newer generation of safety to get paid. Williams, ST, Palamalu and Wilson will be the next generation when all their rookie contracts go out.

No offense but I'm calling BS on your second statement.

[akhhorus]

I seriously doubt a journeyman SS would be expecting to break the bank. It's extremely rare in this league for Safeties to get any money; especiallly SS's it's one of the cheapest positions to fill. AA and Reed are the first of the newer generation of safety to get paid. Williams, ST, Palamalu and Wilson will be the next generation when all their rookie contracts go out.

No offense but I'm calling BS on your second statement.

I don't care if you do or don't. Clark was not some journeyman then(a case could be made that he is now). He was a young player who had played well for a couple years and was hoping to cash in on his free agency. 4 years for 7 million is NOTHING for any player. Thats not journeyman money, thats you're a scrub money. The fact that Clark didn't sign immediately with the Steelers makes me think that he didn't get the deals he was expecting. He signed long after after free agency started. Also, we signed Arch 2 days before he signed with the Steelers. So, we obviously were trying to keep Clark.

[redwolf1218]

I don't care if you do or don't. Clark was not some journeyman then(a case could be made that he is now). He was a young player who had played well for a couple years and was hoping to cash in on his free agency. 4 years for 7 million is NOTHING for any player. Thats not journeyman money, thats you're a scrub money. The fact that Clark didn't sign immediately with the Steelers makes me think that he didn't get the deals he was expecting. He signed long after after free agency started. Also, we signed Arch 2 days before he signed with the Steelers. So, we obviously were trying to keep Clark.
i always thought that we already knew that he was going to sign with Steelers. they knew Clark was leaving, so they went ahead and signed Arch.

the one player that i really wish would have stayed was Pierce, not Clark.

[Phonte]

I don't care if you do or don't. Clark was not some journeyman then(a case could be made that he is now). He was a young player who had played well for a couple years and was hoping to cash in on his free agency. 4 years for 7 million is NOTHING for any player. Thats not journeyman money, thats you're a scrub money. The fact that Clark didn't sign immediately with the Steelers makes me think that he didn't get the deals he was expecting. He signed long after after free agency started. Also, we signed Arch 2 days before he signed with the Steelers. So, we obviously were trying to keep Clark. Ok...
Guy was an undrafted FA, hardly cracked the starting lineup in a poor NY secondary, only started for us because Bowen went down. Played solid for us in 1 year.

You can't believe Clark or his agents were that stupid, thinking he'd get some huge contract.

[akhhorus]

Ok...
Guy was an undrafted FA, hardly cracked the starting lineup in a poor NY secondary, only started for us because Bowen went down. Played solid for us in 1 year.

well, about 2 years. Bowen tore up his knee in 04 and Clark started for him and never gave up the position.

You can't believe Clark or his agents were that stupid, thinking he'd get some huge contract.

Actually, i've stopped trying to overestimate the stupidity of agents. I fully believe that Clark's agents could have talked him into thinking he would get a massive deal. Never ever underestimate the power of greed. This same thing happened with Lavar. He could have stayed here and made 7-10 million against the cap and not given up more than 5 million of his 68 million dollar deal. Instead he and his agents thought they could get more on the open market. Instead, he got a contract with game by game bonuses for him actually playing and is going to cost him about 10 million this year. So yes, I think agents and players can make stupid assumptions based on greed and idiocy.

[redskin_rich]

You guys are arguing things that are already in the past and can't be changed. That is fine in the appropriate threads, for example- The Vent Thread. (http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=37824)
This thread was supposed to be about mentioning some players that you have noticed playing well.
Speaking for myself, I don't want every single thread turning into a 'whine about this or that' thread, so lets keep this and all threads on the topic, please.

[X-Factor13]

I wanna say good job to all the players playing hard too:



Sean Taylor, Clinton Portis, Marcus Washington, Santana Moss, Mike Sellers

[GWBlitzST]

I wanna say good job to all the players playing hard too:



Sean Taylor, Clinton Portis, Marcus Washington, Santana Moss, Mike Sellers
Im sorry but I take issue with you putting Portis and even Washington on that list. Portis takes himself out of games, runs out of bounds, and talks about in-house stuff with reporters. He was actually a reason I created this thread, because I think he needs to step up and be a leader (along with Brunell) and stop making excuses. Washington, while a leader on D, is not playing up to what I and most have come to expect from the captain of our defense.