Vito Spatafore/Johnny Cakes vs State of New Jersey

[akhhorus]

I didn't see any thread on this NJ State court allowing a form of gay marriage. Your thoughts? Personally, they should be allowed spousal benefits, I don't know about full out marriage rights.

[Keino]

I didn't see any thread on this NJ State court allowing a form of gay marriage. Your thoughts? Personally, they should be allowed spousal benefits, I don't know about full out marriage rights.


I support it (I know big suprise there). Really, I think spousal benefits/next of kin designation is mainly what Gay and Lesbian partners want. At least the ones that I know.

Im curious, what other marriage rights are you specifically speaking of outside of spousal benefits?

[CNYSkinFan]

I support it (I know big suprise there). Really, I think spousal benefits/next of kin designation is mainly what Gay and Lesbian partners want. At least the ones that I know.

Im curious, what other marriage rights are you specifically speaking of outside of spousal benefits?
there are tax benefits as well, and of course adoption rights.


But I am for it as well. Let everyone marry and be miserable :)

[SpicyMcHaggis]

there are tax benefits as well, and of course adoption rights.


But I am for it as well. Let everyone marry and be miserable :)
That is what I have huge problems with.

[Keino]

That is what I have huge problems with.

Why Spicy?

If the goal is to place unwanted children in a loving and caring environment, why does the potential parent's bedroom activities become a factor for consideration?

Do you think it's better to have these children being "cared for" by the State in group homes and abusive hetero foster parents while ignoring thousands of qualified and desirious parents?

[redskin_rich]

Why Spicy?

If the goal is to place unwanted children in a loving and caring environment, why does the potential parent's bedroom activities become a factor for consideration?

Do you think it's better to have these children being "cared for" by the State in group homes and abusive hetero foster parents while ignoring thousands of qualified and desirious parents?
I agree with what you're saying but I also can't dismiss the fact that the adopted child is going to have to deal with a stigma attached to them. From early on, when certain parents refuse to send their child to his/her party, to the teenage years, which will be worse. This child would have to be quite strong to deal with all the crap that will inevitably be thrown upon him/her. Kids have enough trouble trying to fit in, without having a pariah label on them from the get go. I'm not saying it is right but it is reality.

[Keino]

But aren't we talking about adoption? Which means for the most part, unwanted and in many cases unloved children. I think the potential stigma associated with having gay parents who love them is a much lesser evil than unwanted unloved kids growing up in a group home who are being supported by John Q. Public.

I know 2 sets of gay parents and they are fantastic parents. Im not sure theor adopted children even know that their parents are gay, only that they have 2 moms. Not much different than someone being raised by an Aunt and a Grandmother in the absence of the parents.

[redskin_rich]

But aren't we talking about adoption? Which means for the most part, unwanted and in many cases unloved children. I think the potential stigma associated with having gay parents who love them is a much lesser evil than unwanted unloved kids growing up in a group home who are being supported by John Q. Public.

I know 2 sets of gay parents and they are fantastic parents. Im not sure theor adopted children even know that their parents are gay, only that they have 2 moms. Not much different than someone being raised by an Aunt and a Grandmother in the absence of the parents.
I'm sure a gay couple can be just as good as parents as any hetero couples. I do agree that growing up in a loving household is better than any group home. I'm just stating what I think would be a problem. I have personally dealt with it, as a parent, having to explain gay couples to my kids. It's awkward and those less open-minded than me (which is probably 85% of America) would not be able to without showing their disdain.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I agree with what you're saying but I also can't dismiss the fact that the adopted child is going to have to deal with a stigma attached to them. From early on, when certain parents refuse to send their child to his/her party, to the teenage years, which will be worse. This child would have to be quite strong to deal with all the crap that will inevitably be thrown upon him/her. Kids have enough trouble trying to fit in, without having a pariah label on them from the get go. I'm not saying it is right but it is reality.
That is why I have problems with it. I would NOT want to be that child when he is 14, 15, 16...it is obviously horrible and should not happen, but we all know that it will. Those years could be very very difficult for the child. And one more thing: not having either a father figure or a mother figure in the household is not a good thing for a child. Of course, if the only possible alternative is a group home, then it is a better alternative, but IMO a child would be much better off with having a father and a mother. He risks having real issues growing up. And all this has nothing to do with how loving and caring the gay parents would be, which I'm sure would be very much.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

But aren't we talking about adoption? Which means for the most part, unwanted and in many cases unloved children. I think the potential stigma associated with having gay parents who love them is a much lesser evil than unwanted unloved kids growing up in a group home who are being supported by John Q. Public.

I know 2 sets of gay parents and they are fantastic parents. Im not sure theor adopted children even know that their parents are gay, only that they have 2 moms. Not much different than someone being raised by an Aunt and a Grandmother in the absence of the parents.
How old are those children?

[Spence]

The first thing to do is to understand what the court did and did not do. It did not order the New Jersey state government to legalize gay marriage. In fact, the court ruled that it "cannot find that a fundamental right to same-sex marriage exists in this State." The court suggested that a "separate statutory scheme, which uses a title other than marriage" as long as "the rights and benefits of civil marriage are made equally available to same-sex couples." Basically, New Jersey does not have to permit gay marriage because no right to gay marriage exists in the New Jersey state constitution. However, no rational basis for denying the various civil advantages of marriage to gay couples exists so they must be granted equally. So this decision is less like the Massachussetts state Supreme Court ruling and more like the Vermont state Supreme Court ruling.

By the way, a June poll by Rutger's Eagleton Institute for Politics found that "New Jerseyans, by a margin of 50 percent to 44 percent ... support allowing gays and lesbians to marry legally." And, when you drop the word marriage, as the court did, the support is even more robust: 65 percent of state residents support giving same-sex couples "many of the same rights and benefits as a married man and woman." Only 30 percent are opposed.

[dj_stouty]

I don't have a problem with spousal rights for gay couples. At least in the areas I've lived in...gay couples are more accepted in the community than they were 10 years ago. (even here in Richmond, believe it or not) I've known some gay couples with better relationships than some hetero-couples.

I do agree that a child growing up in a gay home will definitely get some emotional stress from his/her peers. (as if you don't get enough at that age) But I'd rather see them in a loving family than in one of those foster homes, from what I've seen create more troublemakers than they create good kids.

I've known people who grew up in homes without either a mother-figure or father-figure who wished they had one. I wonder if lesbian parents would go out of their way to introduce their son/daughter to a father figure...or vice versa.