Back to reality - we are the 30th ranked defense in the NFL

[wewantdallas]

...According to larry michael and bram on Redskins lunch this afternoon.

Ouch.

I hope this news embarrasses the hell out of this staff and these players, as well it should. They better play like wounded animals on Sunday.

Personally, I think when we get our first turnover on defense, especially a pick, the stars will start to align.

[DoGood]

That truly is embarrassing. We ARE better than that. Now its up to the coaches and players to fix it. The defense is the main culprit that has gotten us to this point. If we even had a competent defense this year, we would probably be more like 5-3.

[smoak]

We're terrible defensively. We give up HUGE plays like Mike Vick gives up "cold sores" and we force almost no turnovers. It is the worst defense I can remember under a Gibbs coached team (I don't remember the early years clearly). That said, I love the people who are in charge of turning ti around and this week will be a REAL test. McNabb is a top 5 QB in the league and we need to play better than we have so far.

[dj_stouty]

Not only are they 30th in total defense...They are also:

30th in passing defense
15th in rushing defense
32nd in allowing passing TDs
32nd in Interceptions
31st in sacks
32nd in sack yards
30th in fumble recoveries
26th in allowing 3rd down conversions
32nd in allowing 4th down conversions
27th in defensive penalties

The only thing the Skins' defense is highly ranked at is allowing rushing TDs. They rank 5th in that category....however when you are last in allowing passing TDs, who needs to rush them? :rolleyes:

[RedskinRyan]

Not only are they 30th in total defense...They are also:

30th in passing defense
15th in rushing defense
32nd in allowing passing TDs
32nd in Interceptions
31st in sacks
32nd in sack yards
30th in fumble recoveries
26th in allowing 3rd down conversions
32nd in allowing 4th down conversions
27th in defensive penalties

The only thing the Skins' defense is highly ranked at is allowing rushing TDs. They rank 5th in that category....however when you are last in allowing passing TDs, who needs to rush them? :rolleyes:

ughhh that makes me so sick to my stomach. the thing hurting us most is that teams can pass all over us. as evident from every game this year.

[ArtMonk4HOF]

I like the Arch/Vincent role changes. Hopefully it helps. We definitely need more turnovers. Two rookie QBs had good numbers against us and that is unacceptable.

[Death_Venom]

I like the Arch/Vincent role changes. Hopefully it helps. We definitely need more turnovers. Two rookie QBs had good numbers against us and that is unacceptable.

I could not agree more......I am also inclined to think that maybe the staff will consider moving Arch to LB (in the off-season)........Personally i kinda favor a move like that........What do you guys think?

[smoak]

I could not agree more......I am also inclined to think that maybe the staff will consider moving Arch to LB (in the off-season)........Personally i kinda favor a move like that........What do you guys think?

I thought they would do it on passing downs this season, but he has trouble even covering TEs. I am starting to favor his outright release as the best course of action.

[vabeach_skinsfan]

I thought they would do it on passing downs this season, but he has trouble even covering TEs. I am starting to favor his outright release as the best course of action.

With our luck he'll probaly end up having a pro-bowl year after he leaves.

[BostonSkins]

I am actually shocked that there are teams worse than us at stopping teams on 3rd down. The good news is that there is only room for improvement. Remember what a difference forcing turnovers made last year down the stretch.....

[HAWGZHEAD]

Not only are they 30th in total defense...They are also:

30th in passing defense
15th in rushing defense
32nd in allowing passing TDs
32nd in Interceptions
31st in sacks
32nd in sack yards
30th in fumble recoveries
26th in allowing 3rd down conversions
32nd in allowing 4th down conversions
27th in defensive penalties

The only thing the Skins' defense is highly ranked at is allowing rushing TDs. They rank 5th in that category....however when you are last in allowing passing TDs, who needs to rush them? :rolleyes:Man, there should have been a warning label on this post. That is horrible.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

There are a lot of 30's in those rankings.

[RedskinsDave]

I really don't think it takes a genius to see that clearly this is Mark Brunell's fault. You see, if he challenged the D better in practice they would be better prepared. :)

[shally]

...According to larry michael and bram on Redskins lunch this afternoon.

Ouch.

I hope this news embarrasses the hell out of this staff and these players, as well it should. They better play like wounded animals on Sunday.

Personally, I think when we get our first turnover on defense, especially a pick, the stars will start to align.

yes, but we are a strong 30th....:lol1:

seriously, the turnovers better start happening this weekend and continue or we are going to be hurting

[shally]

Not only are they 30th in total defense...They are also:

30th in passing defense
15th in rushing defense
32nd in allowing passing TDs
32nd in Interceptions
31st in sacks
32nd in sack yards
30th in fumble recoveries
26th in allowing 3rd down conversions
32nd in allowing 4th down conversions
27th in defensive penalties

The only thing the Skins' defense is highly ranked at is allowing rushing TDs. They rank 5th in that category....however when you are last in allowing passing TDs, who needs to rush them? :rolleyes:

what about overall points allowed ? where are we there ?

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Here is a bigger question than all of the others, can we turn it around and climb back up the rankings?
I think this week's defense was better (but not by a lot) than the past few weeks. We have a long way to go to get to respectability. I personally think these guys, if they can stay healthy, can gel over the next two games into a good unit.

[dj_stouty]

what about overall points allowed ? where are we there ?

24th in the league in points allowed.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Here is a bigger question than all of the others, can we turn it around and climb back up the rankings?
I think this week's defense was better (but not by a lot) than the past few weeks. We have a long way to go to get to respectability. I personally think these guys, if they can stay healthy, can gel over the next two games into a good unit.

I agree. Having Springs and Rogers and Griff plus Vincent and not Arch is going to improve things.

[dj_stouty]

I agree. Having Springs and Rogers and Griff plus Vincent and not Arch is going to improve things.

Aside from two nice tackles at the line of scrimmage, I really wasn't impressed with Springs vs. Dallas. He was constantly following behind the receivers downfield all day. He is clearly not the same CB as he was last year. Either he is still rusty, or he isn't exactly 100% yet...

[DoGood]

If Troy Vincent intercepts mcnabb, I will anoint him king of the EVERYTHING.

[shally]

24th in the league in points allowed.


now that is a real important stat... probably the most accurate reflection of where we stand defensively

[shally]

Aside from two nice tackles at the line of scrimmage, I really wasn't impressed with Springs vs. Dallas. He was constantly following behind the receivers downfield all day. He is clearly not the same CB as he was last year. Either he is still rusty, or he isn't exactly 100% yet...


an ominous observation... if he cannot do better the rest of the year, he is either destined to play safety... or will be out of the league pretty soon..

[LATrueRedskin]

Although I was more satisfied with the way they played against Dallas, they're still not performing anywhere near we need to be in order to be successful.

[Skins4life]

Although I was more satisfied with the way they played against Dallas, they're still not performing anywhere near we need to be in order to be successful.


Heres the kicker - they didnt play that good vs dallass. 400 yards. TO dropped a sure TD - they werent where they needed to be. In order for us to win out (minus 1) - at this pace, our O needs to score 28+ per week.

This D is mind boggling.

[LATrueRedskin]

Heres the kicker - they didnt play that good vs dallass. 400 yards. TO dropped a sure TD - they werent where they needed to be. In order for us to win out (minus 1) - at this pace, our O needs to score 28+ per week.

This D is mind boggling.

I didn't say they played well, but I was more satisfied with the heart they played with. They tackled much better than the last couple weeks, and they got solid pressure and run defense from Griffin and the line. It's something to look forward to.

[greatest2]

This D is mind boggling.

couldn't agree more...in the past few years we have been able to overcome injuries, and lack of turnovers, whats the difference now? i mean, i know we lost smoot and more importantly pierce, but this is Lemars 2nd season at MLB, he knows whats going on. Sean sould know the system inside and out, given its his 3rd year at safety, and carlos shouldn't be hittin this sophmore slump....somethin is wierd, i think aliens came and replaced our d with clones:banghead:

[skins74]

It boils down to our defensive line and linebackers not being able to get any pressure let alone sacks. Cornelious Griffin is the only one worth a damn, the other guys are worthless as pass rushers. I hope Rocky can rush the QB.

[shally]

It boils down to our defensive line and linebackers not being able to get any pressure let alone sacks. Cornelious Griffin is the only one worth a damn, the other guys are worthless as pass rushers. I hope Rocky can rush the QB.

his strength is against the run... we will see how he develops

[redwolf1218]

couldn't agree more...in the past few years we have been able to overcome injuries, and lack of turnovers, whats the difference now? i mean, i know we lost smoot and more importantly pierce, but this is Lemars 2nd season at MLB, he knows whats going on. Sean sould know the system inside and out, given its his 3rd year at safety, and carlos shouldn't be hittin this sophmore slump....somethin is wierd, i think aliens came and replaced our d with clones:banghead:
i said this same thing the other night on here. people point to the injuries, but we have dealt with that before without this much of a dropoff. in the past, we have plugged in no-names and still had a good defense.

before i would say the game is always our's to win because we could win it no matter what with our defense, and now it's like the game is always our's to lose, because we play "not-to-lose" and the defense cant stop anyone. bizzare.

[FunBunch5]

We're terrible defensively. We give up HUGE plays like Mike Vick gives up "cold sores" and we force almost no turnovers. It is the worst defense I can remember under a Gibbs coached team (I don't remember the early years clearly). That said, I love the people who are in charge of turning ti around and this week will be a REAL test. McNabb is a top 5 QB in the league and we need to play better than we have so far.

:lol1: YUCK!!!

This defense reminds me of a Norv coached team. It is frustrating, because a lead is never safe. My goodness they got to our 17 yard line in 25 seconds. Last year in the first Dallas game when the Skins took a 1 point lead with a couple of minutes left, Dallas barely got over mid field. And they had the ball a couple of times. If the defense can ever get around to playing up to last years D, then I think this team has a pretty good shot at the playoffs.

[redwolf1218]

who would have ever thought we'd have such a terrible defense this year.

[santanadasavior]

If you look at the schedule, we played some very offensively talented teams. I'm going to play devil's advocate here but I think that numbers aren't everything. The most important thing is the timing of plays. Let me show you something that these guys did at a very important time.

In the fourth quarter, the Cowboys were at the Redskins 36-yard line and looking like they were about to make some progress into field goal range.

The next play, Andre Carter tackled Terry Glenn for an 8-yard loss on a reverse. On second down, Marcus Washington sacked Romo. Those two huge plays forced them to punt following a third down play.

I know our timing hasn't really been there this year so far, but we showed signs like this one. It's not how you play the whole game, but how u play when you need to make a play. We showed that we can step up when that is needed and I expect that to translate into more tell statistics soon enough.

[RedskinRyan]

Although I was more satisfied with the way they played against Dallas, they're still not performing anywhere near we need to be in order to be successful.

yeah, but if our d is so bad, but holds em to 19 points when they hung 35 on carolina, gotta love that

[skins74]

who would have ever thought we'd have such a terrible defense this year.


stupid me thought with the addition of Carter our defense would be top 5 this year.

[RedskinRyan]

stupid me thought with the addition of Carter our defense would be top 5 this year.

that would make alot of us stupid then

who knows, maybe the players will gel better throughout the year and progress.

[X-Factor13]

haha, trust me that reality never left me at any point after the game.


fact is, we still are not a very good team, and have played worse than the 3-5 record we have

[X-Factor13]

that would make alot of us stupid then

who knows, maybe the players will gel better throughout the year and progress.



eh... i dunno man, they haven't even shown potential from what i've seen. they just look like a bunch of fools out there.

[Skins57]

This week if we can stand up and shut down McNabb it will make me feel like the corner has been turned, maybe it will be or maybe it won't be but I am looking forward to this game just for this reason

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

This week if we can stand up and shut down McNabb it will make me feel like the corner has been turned, maybe it will be or maybe it won't be but I am looking forward to this game just for this reason
i agree. if we have to be a bend but dont break defense, then so be it. last weekend was a great start, but if we can knock off a divisional rival, coming off of their bye week, it will say alot about the resolve of the team. the redskins are in a great position now to make some sort of a run. two games on the road that are definitely winnable, followed by 3 tough home games. we are 1-0 in the new season.

[Phonte]

Our defense on 3rd downs was just atrocious.

I think the Cowboys were 7-10 on 3rd and longs.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

i agree. if we have to be a bend but dont break defense, then so be it. last weekend was a great start, but if we can knock off a divisional rival, coming off of their bye week, it will say alot about the resolve of the team. the redskins are in a great position now to make some sort of a run. two games on the road that are definitely winnable, followed by 3 tough home games. we are 1-0 in the new season.
Uhm..so the first 7 games out of a 16 game season do not count?

The defense is by far the thing that worries me the most when I think of next year. Bringing in Campbell with a strong running game and a good defense would be one thing. Bringing him in with the 30th ranked defense, which has gotten progressively worse for the past 3 years, is completely another thing. And I don't even want to think about a new complete rehaul of the defensive personel..

[smoak]

Uhm..so the first 7 games out of a 16 game season do not count?
The defense is by far the thing that worries me the most when I think of next year. Bringing in Campbell with a strong running game and a good defense would be one thing. Bringing him in with the 30th ranked defense, which has gotten progressively worse for the past 3 years, is completely another thing. And I don't even want to think about a new complete rehaul of the defensive personel..

That isn't what she means... But we can't change games 1-7 so why focus on it. What we can impact are games 8-16 and so far we are off to a good start. Even when you are mathmatically eliminated, you still should want to win and build on something for the next year.

Agree on Campbell... I am excited to see him play, but I feel bad for the offense just like I felt bad for the defense in '04. 2005 was nice b/c overall it was balanced with each unit having their ups and downs.

[Green-Is-Good]

Agree on Campbell... I am excited to see him play, but I feel bad for the offense just like I felt bad for the defense in '04. 2005 was nice b/c overall it was balanced with each unit having their ups and downs.

What I don't understand is why the defence is so poor this year. Were Lavar and Ryan Clark that important?

[smoak]

What I don't understand is why the defence is so poor this year. Were Lavar and Ryan Clark that important?

IMO?

LaVar is much better than Holdman at stoppoing the run. However, because he barely played it isn't a big loss. Clark and PP are huge losses in the secondary. In addition, other guys are not palying up to par or are recovering from injury... Springs, Griffin, Washington, and Rogers have all underachieved. Even Taylor has played well short of my expectations. I'm sure if you asked GW, he would shoulder all of the blame, but it is really up to these guys to start winning individual matchups. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see better schemes, but that isn't the main problem as I see it. The fundamentals were killing us there for while. Simple tackling and coverage techniques were awful and hopefully we're now starting to come around....

The Eagles will be a huge test.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

IMO?

LaVar is much better than Holdman at stoppoing the run. However, because he barely played it isn't a big loss. Clark and PP are huge losses in the secondary. In addition, other guys are not palying up to par or are recovering from injury... Springs, Griffin, Washington, and Rogers have all underachieved. Even Taylor has played well short of my expectations. I'm sure if you asked GW, he would shoulder all of the blame, but it is really up to these guys to start winning individual matchups. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see better schemes, but that isn't the main problem as I see it. The fundamentals were killing us there for while. Simple tackling and coverage techniques were awful and hopefully we're now starting to come around....

The Eagles will be a huge test.
I think every single person associated with the defense has underachieved this year (some due to injury), except a couple of rookies or reserve players. Williams, Daniels, Carter, Griffin, Salave'a, Washington, Marshall, Holdman, Taylor (less than others), Arch, Springs, Rogers, Wright. All of them. It's pretty obvious if you think about it..it takes quite a complete effort to go from #3 one year, to #9 the next, to #30 the next.

[esmith1790]

If you look at the schedule, we played some very offensively talented teams. I'm going to play devil's advocate here but I think that numbers aren't everything. The most important thing is the timing of plays. Let me show you something that these guys did at a very important time.

In the fourth quarter, the Cowboys were at the Redskins 36-yard line and looking like they were about to make some progress into field goal range.

The next play, Andre Carter tackled Terry Glenn for an 8-yard loss on a reverse. On second down, Marcus Washington sacked Romo. Those two huge plays forced them to punt following a third down play.

I know our timing hasn't really been there this year so far, but we showed signs like this one. It's not how you play the whole game, but how u play when you need to make a play. We showed that we can step up when that is needed and I expect that to translate into more tell statistics soon enough.

I understand the timing part of what you are trying to say but what about when the defense tries to blitz and cause the holding calls/ false starts and other penalties or even sacks and hurries and then the other team is in 3 and long or 4 and short and they convert most of them at a high percentage.
Are you saying that they picked the wrong time to get a sack or draw a penalty. So when should they wait to do then?

[smoak]

I think every single person associated with the defense has underachieved this year (some due to injury), except a couple of rookies or reserve players. Williams, Daniels, Carter, Griffin, Salave'a, Washington, Marshall, Holdman, Taylor (less than others), Arch, Springs, Rogers, Wright. All of them. It's pretty obvious if you think about it..it takes quite a complete effort to go from #3 one year, to #9 the next, to #30 the next.

I agree, but I specifically wanted to call out the traditional leaders and "all pros" on the D.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I agree, but I specifically wanted to call out the traditional leaders and "all pros" on the D.
Yeah, I agree..they are the ones that should be setting the example. If Washington plays badly it's alot worse than if Holdman does. Same with Griffin and Salavea for example..

[openallnight]

Aside from two nice tackles at the line of scrimmage, I really wasn't impressed with Springs vs. Dallas. He was constantly following behind the receivers downfield all day. He is clearly not the same CB as he was last year. Either he is still rusty, or he isn't exactly 100% yet...
Not dissing' on Springs but, he was even worse against the Colts. The fact that he looked improved against Dallas gives me hope that he is just working off the rust and will continue to improve ea. week.

[shally]

Not dissing' on Springs but, he was even worse against the Colts. The fact that he looked improved against Dallas gives me hope that he is just working off the rust and will continue to improve ea. week.

he better... on the other hand, he had a positive effect on wright because it allowed wright to be played inthe role he was signed to play

[openallnight]

he better... on the other hand, he had a positive effect on wright because it allowed wright to be played inthe role he was signed to play

Actually, that's an excellent the point. The experience KW got w/ the starting unit also should help him even more now that he's moving back to his presumed role as the nickel back.

Some other unrelated positives I saw start to develop in the dallas game.
Moving Vincent into SS is obviously a big improvement over Arch w/ communications and coverage. But, just as important it allows us to move Arch into this hybrid LB spot getting rid of the liability holdman presents in passing situations. (I think the loss of clemons has been almost as critical as the loss of PP and Clark in our pass D).

Griffen, Salevea and Daniels appear to be getting healthy and for the 1st time this season displayed the ability to get some penetration in the passing game. Plus, Carter MAY even be coming around.

I think that lack of confidence has affected MW, Marshall and Taylor the most. When you can't count on your teammates doing there job is when you get yourself into trouble. Hopefully, this victory and the noticeable improvements we saw will allow our "playmakers" to pin their ears back and make their plays.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

That isn't what she means... But we can't change games 1-7 so why focus on it. What we can impact are games 8-16 and so far we are off to a good start. Even when you are mathmatically eliminated, you still should want to win and build on something for the next year.

thank you for clarifying that smoak. thats exactly what i meant.

[EagleAye]

Why we will win out and make the playoffs -
ok I did some in depth analysis and this is why I know we will win out the season.

Week 10 - Eagles offense is sputtering and with our defense completely healthy we beat the eagles

Week 11 - Buccs - They are ranked 31st in points per game and yards per game 30th ins rushing yards per game and 27th passing yards per game. As long as our defense holds up and brunell doesn't sputter again we win this game

Week 12 - Panthers - They are an average team with a somewhat inflated record. They have beaten the Browns (crappy team) Bucs (crappy team) Saints (Good team with inflated record. read my summary when I get to week 15) and the Ravens (Crappy team who's record was inflated in the beginning by going 4 - 0 against crappy teams)

Week 13 - Falcons - Average team (they have a couple of legitimate wins but they have alo beaten some crappy teams (cardinals, Bucs, and Steelers) to give them a partially inflated record.

Week 14 - Eagles again at home - We are at Home!! (same summary as above)

Week 15 - Saints - 1st they haven't beaten a good team yet. their wins are (Bucs twice, Packers, Browns and the Falcons)

Week 16 - Rams - This I think is our 2nd toughest game because you don't know which team you are going to get. They haven't scored more than 28 points all season with the exception to the Lions (who are a crappy team)

Week 17 - Giants - 1st this game is at home on OUR TURF. This is our toughest game of the 2nd half and sort of fitting because it is a divisional rival and the team who will most likely take the NFC east champ position. All stats are out the window on this game. We win this game because we will need this to be in the playoffs. Our emotions will be high and the giants because they will have already clinched the playoff birth and depending how they go the rest of the season, (ie.they win out) they may even clinch home field) they may not take this game very lightly since they will be saving themselves for the playoffs. If they struggle the rest of the season and we are both battling for the NFC east division leader then everything is again out the window and it will come down to who plays the hardest.

I say we finish the season with a 11 - 5 record unless the NFC east comes down to the final game of the season and we could possibly go 10 -6 with a wild card spot.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/3turn/HelpPhoto.jpg
:lol1: I love your logic! I'm not gonna touch this one!!!

Keep the faith and be flexible enough to accept something slightly different from what you think.

[Thugzbunny]

With the addition of Jerry Gray and the new players in the secondary I think we all expected our secondary to improve dramatically. I think along with the G williams Jerry gray has to share some of the blame for the Secondary's woes. It hurts me to see these guys go from being good corners and safetys to become one of the worst in the league (with the exception of Taylor). Wright can't cover, Arch can't keep up with TE's, and Roger's can't catch a ball when it's thrown right to him. If caught all or some of the balls I think Roger would have had between 4 to 6 interceptions by now. Also, I think on defense this team is lacking swagger and hunger. And they are certainly not playing team football.


I don't think we should be too concerned about the rankings because just like last year if these guys choose to they can turn it around. I think everyone should look at themselves and see what they can do change things around rather than worrying about what they have not been able to. Maybe they need to step up to the coaches with suggestions as to how they think they can be best utilized. Putting aside the record from now on every game should be played as if it is a superbowl and the coaching staff must have the same fire and desire in them. Everyone needs to be held accountable and everyone must share the praise and the blame together. I remember last year, when we were I think 5-6 that JG approached his players and had a talk with them, why not do the same thing this time around. From now on I want to see sense of urgency from this time.

I hope it all changes this week.

GO SKINS.

[redwolf1218]

...According to larry michael and bram on Redskins lunch this afternoon.

Ouch.

I hope this news embarrasses the hell out of this staff and these players, as well it should. They better play like wounded animals on Sunday.

Personally, I think when we get our first turnover on defense, especially a pick, the stars will start to align.
we are due. unfortunately, we dont get much pass rush, and lots of turnovers result from pressure on the QB, by knocking the ball away from him, or forcing him into bad throws. i dont see that happening a lot with McNabb.

i think we have to keep the ball like we did on that first drive against Dallas, but of course come away with 7. also, make plays on special teams and win the field position battle. that'll go a long ways towards helping the defense.

[skinfan43]

The Eagles' secondary can be vulnerable to the deep ball, they cover much better on short/intermediate routes. Maybe we can get some PI calls at least if we take some well-timed shots deep (like the Lloyd PI last week).
That's not to say our secondary doesn't suck this year so far...I am VERY concerned about our coverage problems vs. McNabb...I think either we are focused and excel on D, or we could easily give up 35. I am praying for the defense to come ready this week, we all know what another loss (especially within the division) means at this point.
But what if we actually find a way to win?...:mfast:

[redskins567]

Our defence needs to step up against philly. We need to pressure Mcnabb and prevent him from throwing it deep.:eaglesuk: :typeR2: