Still Searching for Offense -- What is the Problem?

[greatest2]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/09/AR2006110902192.html

i agree we are missing a identity. i like what MArk says - we know what we want to be, but we aren't that.

i wish we could be that power running team, like last year, we would run and run and then run more. I trust Al, and believe he will get this turned around, however he does, i hope it happens soon.

Also, props to danny smith on special teams, wasn't long ago we sucked in every aspect of special teams.

what do you think? think we will find an identity this season, or will it be next? what will it be?

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

we know what it is--its up to the coaches to call the correct plays, at the correct time and the players to execute. the players had PLENTY of chances down by the goalline against dallass and they failed to score any points.

[chrisbcbu]

Dont worry, i have Sherlock Holmes on the case. He will find our offense and defense for us.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

Dont worry, i have Sherlock Holmes on the case. He will find our offense and defense for us.
LOL......i wonder if this guy can help us any.......

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/rachay/5903.gif

[smoot]

LOL......i wonder if this guy can help us any.......

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/rachay/5903.gif
isn't that who weve been playing against all season?

[bgforever]

Yep, SS said it all. It's the big plays. Making those keeps you alive and I understand the response both by MB and Gibbs. I see some plays develop better than others for certain players on offense and then in another game its not the best thing to try. Matchup capability is playing a big part in the scoring.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

isn't that who weve been playing against all season?
LOL. that was my point......:)

[CamLwalk]

Sunday, I felt like the offense was on the verge of clicking. Not quite there but I wouldn't be surprised if we light it up in Philly. Saunders' offense took about 7-8 games to really click with KC when he brought it there. Hope 'Tana can play.

[shally]

Sunday, I felt like the offense was on the verge of clicking. Not quite there but I wouldn't be surprised if we light it up in Philly. Saunders' offense took about 7-8 games to really click with KC when he brought it there. Hope 'Tana can play.

let us hope we have a breakout game on both offense and defense.. we will need it to beat philly at the linc

[shally]

most of you would find it hard to miss my opinions concerning brunell as the qb of the skins.. but today, i want to give that drum a rest and think out loud on the subject of the wisdom of hiring al saunders as offensive coordinator and turning the offense over to him..

i understand fully that gibbs wanted to ease some of the burden of running the offense personally, but i just wonder if saunders was the right choice for the position. the more i see of saunders, the more he reminds me of brian billick wearing the robe of "offensive genius.".. this 700 page playbook appears to be not only needlessly complex, but also, seems to end up yielding plays that are not particularly creative..

to wit. how much imagination was shown on the first drive against dallas
when inside the 5 we have 4 portis runs and 1 betts run? straight ahead and into the line. wasn't there something in that telephone book that was better than those series of calls? c'mon, sellers alone had 6 td's from inside the 10 last year. what about cooley,or a surprise throw to yoder? or perhaps a toss to portis and let him try to run to the corner with his speed? or a fade route to lloyd? there simply had to be a better idea than 5 straight runs into the middle. and don't give me that "making a statement" claptrap. scoring a td is making a statement. getting stuffed 5 times is another.

we hear a lot about brunell being a poor fit for the saunders offense. maybe it is because saunders offense simply aint that good? but you say kc was unstoppable under saunders... hmmmmm, looks like kc is doing just fine this year without green and without willie roaf and without saunders.. maybe herm edwards is a lot better coach than i realized, or maybe saunders had better players than i realized.. but i do know this much. we added weapons this off season, returned a mature o line and premier back and yet this offense has looked like garbage most of the time from preseason on.
patience was advised. then concern because, legitimately, portis was hurt.. and yet half way into the season the offense still struggles to score 20 points in nearly every game regardless of how poor the defense is we face. when we face a weak defense against the rush, we do not take advantage of things.. and we lose at home to tennessee in a show of both offensive (and defensive) futility..

and what about the qb situation? not gonna say another comment about brunell. but JC ? well, it looks like big al doesn't exactly have a lot of great things to say about him. doesn't exactly sing his praises does he ? and of course, JC has had to learn that 700 page offense this off season. that makes 6 offenses for him in 6 years. he probably does not know if he is calling plays from year 3 at auburn or year 2 as a redskin. this cannot be good for his development overall. WOULD IT NOT HAVE BEEN FAR BETTER TO HAVE ELEVATED MUSGRAVE TO OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR and let JC mature another year inthe same offense? sure we got him his own qb coach, but he is greener than grass himself, whereas musgrave has had a hand in the development of numerous qb's over the years. i do not know what went into the decision of musgrave leaving and taking the qb coach position at atlanta, but it would have been hard to imagine him turning down gibbs/snyder's offer to step up.

and what happens with the qb situation after this season.. most assume that brunell will not be back. if that is so and big al feels JC is not really ready what happens then? does brunell get invited back for another dance ?? (horrors !!!)... do we have another interim year with collins getting the starting spot after a spirited competition next preseason ?? (horrrors again !!!)... do we sign another caretaker qb, or another veteran qb this off season ??... or do we simply turn JC loose and say in effect, "it's your time, go get 'em" whether or not he is ready ??

in the end, i do not wonder if it was the right idea for joe to pass the offense and play calling to someone else, but feel that we have bought "the emperor's new clothes" in al saunders..

feel free to tell me where i am wrong.....

[DCGreys]

Saunders is a proven quality offensive coordinator. He will do great in the long run. Many of the same criticisms were sent Joe Gibbs way after his start but waiting a bit to pass judgment was wise.

Even given that, someone needs to tell Al Saunders that Redskins football is built on the run, and possession passing, with a good dose of deep down the field passes. But the run is primary; with Duckett on the bench and Portis underutilized, this is not going to work. Mr. Gibbs is the man who needs to communicate this DIRECTLY to Al Saunders. I can't believe he has neglected to do so, so perhaps Al Saunders needs to listen very closely.

[DUCKIN_TACKLERS]

I wont blame him completely for the offense...I will however throw some blame on him for our Defense. Why you ask? I think he sandbagged his plays in the Preseason (assuming we could just turn it on) which led to confusion and lack of confidence in this System. I also feel that he has had to adjust to his players and because of this alot of drives have stalled before they even got started. He seems like he is attempting to have a big play offense(which i believe is starting to come around), But what happens when we dont succeed on those attempts and allow ourselves to keep possesion and run the ball with a lead. What we are left with is an Offense that leaves its Defense out to dry. They have been on the field way too much and weak areas are being exposed. I firmly believe alot of our success on D in past seasons is that they got rest and were not forced to defend 40+ minutes a game on Defense.

[RedSkinBrit]

I wont blame him completely for the offense...I will however throw some blame on him for our Defense. Why you ask? I think he sandbagged his plays in the Preseason (assuming we could just turn it on) which led to confusion and lack of confidence in this System. I also feel that he has had to adjust to his players and because of this alot of drives have stalled before they even got started. He seems like he is attempting to have a big play offense(which i believe is starting to come around), But what happens when we dont succeed on those attempts and allow ourselves to keep possesion and run the ball with a lead. What we are left with is an Offense that leaves its Defense out to dry. They have been on the field way too much and weak areas are being exposed. I firmly believe alot of our success on D in past seasons is that they got rest and were not forced to defend 40+ minutes a game on Defense.


Good point,our D has been undestrenghed and on the field of play too much time in most games.

[smoak]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/09/AR2006110902192.html

i agree we are missing a identity. i like what MArk says - we know what we want to be, but we aren't that.

i wish we could be that power running team, like last year, we would run and run and then run more. I trust Al, and believe he will get this turned around, however he does, i hope it happens soon.

Also, props to danny smith on special teams, wasn't long ago we sucked in every aspect of special teams.

what do you think? think we will find an identity this season, or will it be next? what will it be?

Yeah, the Danny Smith haters seem like idiots now. Our special teams have been the best and most consistent unit on the team.... Unfortunately that is mostly by defaul but... Frost has been ok overall. Hall is injured so I don't hold that against the team. Novak scares me but I love the kid and hope he hangs around. The coverage units have been pretty consistent and breakdowns only seem to happen on bad kicks (from what I remember).

The offense is going to have som opportunities to makes some plays this weekend. The Eagles LBers are vunerable and the secondary hasn't been great. The key is to not run plays that take four years to develop.

[GibbsFan]

Saunders is a proven OC and I think the move to get him was a good one if Gibbs did not want to run the O anymore. Having said that, there is every reason to question what happened on that first drive. We should be able to slam the ball in there, and it was as simple as a lack of execution. Should we have run a little roll out, run the edge, or perhaps a fade? Hindsight would of course say yes, but it was a simple failure from the OL to get any push at all from the doorstep. We should have checked off to another play but we take pride in being more physical, unfortunately we are finding out that we have slipped on the OL.

KC had the best OL in the game over the last 5 or so years, and good FB players can make you look like a better coach than you really are. I am not saying he is a bad coach, but he can't get out there and execute the plays himself. With all the experience of Saunders you can't really say he is a bad OC. What you can say is that he has players who are different now, and have not adjusted to his game. Either that or these guys are just not as good. Upfront we are just not as good as we often think we are. We do have some good guys on the OL but it seems to me that Dock, Samuels, and Jansen are all getting beat too often. Rabach's performance has not exactly been stellar either.

It all starts upfront on the OL. While we like to think we have one of the best OL's in the game, they simply have too many breakdowns in pass protection and too little push in the running game. Basically we have no depth, therefore no one feels any risk of losing there starting job. Maybe we should take a look at throwing someone in Dock's place, but I don't know if we would see anything better. Dock was stuffed on that series and just lacks a nasty streak of a great guard. If he had it, it might be the best in the game. Hopefully, they will all step there game up a notch, because what we have seen thus far has not been enough.

[whitskins]

I admire Brunell a heck of a lot and always will, but we have a boat load of weapons at the skill positions and a QB who only attacks half the field (or less).

I think Saunders would go hog wild with a QB who could make all the throws deep, between the hash marks, and down the sidelines on a consistent basis. Then we could back the safeties up on a regular basis and open things up even more for Portis.

Right now, teams just aren't defending us deep because they know Mark's tendencies and limitations. I think that's the main hindrance to our offense right now, but I still got love for you Mark.

[smoak]

Merged two threads on the offensive struggles.

[dj_stouty]

They look like a different offense out there every week, and as of recent, it doesn't even seem as if Saunders is calling the plays.

I like the new hybrid run/pass offense we saw against Dallas. (Run 30/Pass 23) Its key to run the ball at least that many times, even when the defense shuts you down early like Dallas did. (they are ranked 5th against the rush for a reason) But they stuck with it, and it resulted in Portis' big TD. If the Skins keep that up against lesser talented teams, the sky is the limit in how open this offense can be. Philly's rush defense tends to give up 30 mores yards on the ground than Dallas' defense. However Philly has only allowed (1) rush that netted over 20 yards, so Portis may have to take the role of Grinder against this bend-but-not-break Eagles rush D.

Of Course, I really liked the vertical passing game over the middle. It seems as if Dallas really gamplanned for MB's passes outside the hash marks, which probably made it easier for guys like Thrash to find those soft spots.

But what looks pretty good one week rarely is seen the next..so who knows what offense we see against Philly.

[dj_stouty]

WOULD IT NOT HAVE BEEN FAR BETTER TO HAVE ELEVATED MUSGRAVE TO OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR and let JC mature another year inthe same offense? sure we got him his own qb coach, but he is greener than grass himself, whereas musgrave has had a hand in the development of numerous qb's over the years. i do not know what went into the decision of musgrave leaving and taking the qb coach position at atlanta, but it would have been hard to imagine him turning down gibbs/snyder's offer to step up.


I must say; losing Musgrave probably hurt more than we think. He was the guy who put Matt Schaub on the map at UVA (and who will be a hot commodity in '07)...and he was the guy who helped develop Leftwich in Jacksonville. He was also the guy who managed to squeeze some talent out of Brunell, who was all but washed up leading to the beginning of last season.

When we drafted JC, I was excited about the possibilities of him learning the QB postion under Musgrave. But unfortunately, like every other offensive mentor in Campbell's life since his rookie year at Auburn, Musgrave hit the road. Now he is in Atlanta helping Michael Vick become a reborn passing QB. And he is being effective....

I'm not sure if I would have given him OC status, but I certainly would have given him one of those patented "Danny raises" where he makes as much as a typical NFL OC. (After all, SAudners is paid like a HC anyway...)

[smoot]

LOL. that was my point......:)
well then, good joke. A+ material

[vabeach_skinsfan]

Sunday, I felt like the offense was on the verge of clicking. Not quite there but I wouldn't be surprised if we light it up in Philly. Saunders' offense took about 7-8 games to really click with KC when he brought it there. Hope 'Tana can play.

Thats pretty much what I was thinking, or better yet.....hoping. Philly's been giving up games left and right......not finishing unitl the end of the game. Thats to our advantage, because I know this team doesn't give up and continues to fight till the end, which was evident agaisnt the 'girls last Sunday.

I know they're coming off a bye week, but we're coming off a huge vitcory over dallass.....which should be a confidence booster....for both Offense and Defense. Although McNugget and the Eagles love to throw the rock 80 times a game, and which looks to be our weakest apsect on Defense, I think the pressence of Springs and the addition of Vincent into the starting line up will help our D get things back on track.

[vabeach_skinsfan]

I must say; losing Musgrave probably hurt more than we think. He was the guy who put Matt Schaub on the map at UVA (and who will be a hot commodity in '07)...and he was the guy who helped develop Leftwich in Jacksonville. He was also the guy who managed to squeeze some talent out of Brunell, who was all but washed up leading to the beginning of last season.

When we drafted JC, I was excited about the possibilities of him learning the QB postion under Musgrave. But unfortunately, like every other offensive mentor in Campbell's life since his rookie year at Auburn, Musgrave hit the road. Now he is in Atlanta helping Michael Vick become a reborn passing QB. And he is being effective....

I'm not sure if I would have given him OC status, but I certainly would have given him one of those patented "Danny raises" where he makes as much as a typical NFL OC. (After all, SAudners is paid like a HC anyway...)

Thats a great point. That hurt us more than we anticipated. I mean, look what Vick has done this year in the passing game.

[smoak]

I must say; losing Musgrave probably hurt more than we think. He was the guy who put Matt Schaub on the map at UVA (and who will be a hot commodity in '07)...and he was the guy who helped develop Leftwich in Jacksonville. He was also the guy who managed to squeeze some talent out of Brunell, who was all but washed up leading to the beginning of last season.

I completely agree. Although I have complete faith in the long term plan (Saunders), I'm not surprised that there was a bump in the road losing Musgrave...

Why did he leave? Did we try to keep him?

[WaterBoy]

Dock was stuffed on that series and just lacks a nasty streak of a great guard.

I was stunted on that play! I think it was a LB that stuffed Dock. As a guard, he has to win that battle.

[Keino]

I admire Brunell a heck of a lot and always will, but we have a boat load of weapons at the skill positions and a QB who only attacks half the field (or less).

I think Saunders would go hog wild with a QB who could make all the throws deep, between the hash marks, and down the sidelines on a consistent basis. Then we could back the safeties up on a regular basis and open things up even more for Portis.

Right now, teams just aren't defending us deep because they know Mark's tendencies and limitations. I think that's the main hindrance to our offense right now, but I still got love for you Mark.


Count me as another person who defended Brunell tooth and nail against the unreasonable onslought of Ramseyites who feels the way you do Whit.

I got love for him too, I will never forget what he did for us last year, but I see him as the main problem on our offense right now too.