Evolution

[SkinsASchamps]

I am taking a General Biology class and we are talking about Evolution and Intelligent Design. I am wondering how people feel about this topic and how educated people are in general on these topics. I dont want this to be a heated debate or any name calling but I would like candid response. If this cannot go here and needs to be in the Political Forum I am sorry and can someone please move it there. Im not trying to start an arguement but would like to start a discussion. So I have included a poll. Please vote and then if you care to discuss your feelings on the matter. Thank you.

I thought this could be a distraction from the game today... :)

[CNYSkinFan]

God Intelligently designed Evolution

[SkinsASchamps]

Well, without swaying the voting either way, I will tell you how I feel. I think Evolution is a fact. There is evidence that suggests that it exist and it seems like a viable answer to me. I feel like Intelligent design is a cop out and doesnt explain anything tangible to me. Evolution is science and Ill take science over "feeling" or "belief" anyday. Just some of how I feel but I hope some people will respond.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

God Intelligently designed Evolution
LOL. good answer. i believe in God, so my answer is no.

[redskin_rich]

I voted a combination. This is a great topic for deep discussion, as long as everyone is willing to be open-minded and offer their opinions.
A simpler take is the old 'chicken and egg' argument. I say that a higher form created the chicken that layed the egg.

[SkinsASchamps]

LOL. good answer. i believe in God, so my answer is no.

I think you can still believe in God and think Evolution is real. Why couldnt God set Evolution in place?

[SkinsASchamps]

I voted a combination. This is a great topic for deep discussion, as long as everyone is willing to be open-minded and offer their opinions.
A simpler take is the old 'chicken and egg' argument. I say that a higher form created the chicken that layed the egg.

Thank you for the response. If I can get facts to back up either side of the debate it would make my report for my class that much more insightful. I appreciate all comments. That said, many people have strong feelings either way but dont have all the facts (myself included). Since I have learned about it in my class I have seen many different sides that are quite interesting. Ill put them down after others get to think and vote. I dont want to cloud thinking.

[WarEagle]

I believe in God, personally. But I think school kids should be exposed to both views, so they can decide if they come from Adam and Eve, or Flipper and Bonzo. :lol1:

[SkinsASchamps]

I believe in God, personally. But I think school kids should be exposed to both views, so they can decide if they come from Adam and Eve, or Flipper and Bonzo. :lol1:

I really appreciate the comment but I dont want this to turn into people checking off whether they believe in God or how they want kids to be taught. I am really happy you repsonded but I just dont want the topic to stray. Thanks.

This does not have to be a choice between God and evolution. Evolution says that "In biology, evolution is the change in the heritable traits of a population over successive generations, as determined by shifts in the allele frequencies of genes. Over time, this process can result in speciation, the development of new species from existing ones. All contemporary organisms are related to each other through common descent, the products of cumulative evolutionary changes over billions of years. Evolution is thus the source of the vast diversity of life on Earth, including the many extinct species attested to in the fossil record." from Wikipedia. (I know it isnt the best source but this definition is pretty good). This definition makes no mention of God or a lack of God.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

I think you can still believe in God and think Evolution is real. Why couldnt God set Evolution in place?
there is no proof in my bible that says anything about us being formed from monkeys. lol. thats just my opinion.

[akhhorus]

The theories aren't mutually exclusive(ID and evolution), BUT ID/Creationist is based on pure sophistry(Michael Bede's book "Darwin's Black Box" is the only serious scientific work on ID and it yields a lot of ground to evolution, and admits that if linkage fossils are found, ID falls apart and they've found over 10,000 of them) and Evolution is based on hard scientific fact.

[CNYSkinFan]

there is no proof in my bible that says anything about us being formed from monkeys. lol. thats just my opinion.
I don't see anything in the bible about astro-physics....but that is real as well.

Science and faith are not mutually exclusive.....

but Science and religion are because Science allows for rational logical thought and most religious authority derives from the need to quell rational thought.

(note I am talking about religious authorities...not faith in god. IE pope, minister, priest, hindu guru, mullah, whatever. I believe in God, I have faith. I also hate religion.)

[Skaggsrules]

I am not a man of faith, but I am sensitive to those who have faith... With that said, I too am in a college class called Ecology & Evolution, and I do believe in evolution of humans, as it is a logical explanation with evidence.

[Green-Is-Good]

God Intelligently designed Evolution

Agree

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Well, without swaying the voting either way, I will tell you how I feel. I think Evolution is a fact. There is evidence that suggests that it exist and it seems like a viable answer to me. I feel like Intelligent design is a cop out and doesnt explain anything tangible to me. Evolution is science and Ill take science over "feeling" or "belief" anyday. Just some of how I feel but I hope some people will respond.
Uhm..is there anybody out there that does NOT think this? I seriously hope not...

[BurgundyNGold]

You can't have a combination of ID and Evolution. They are mutually exclusive theories based on the insistance of the ID folks to not acknowledge fact. The foundation premise of ID states that because of the singular complexity of organisms, or more specifically their subcomponents like an eyeball, that they could not have possible evolved to their current state without divine intervention. Of course, this isn't actually proving the theory of ID, rather it's more a shot to try and take down evolution.

The world is more than 10,000 years old, folks. It's not a matter of some evidence stating it -- ALL evidence shows this irrefutibly. Is it possible that God designed the world with evolution? Sure. In fact, that's my bet. But don't make the mistake of thinking that scenario is ID. ID is the cornerstone attempt by creationists to essentially give them a "scientific" argument (there is no science there and the scientific method is often skirted at every available opportunity) to say that the Earth is scarcely 10,000 years old, man descendant from Adam and Eve and the bible is to be interpreted literally.

The big one is that last part. Almost to a man, those who would advance ID believe in literal interpretation of the bible. So, really, that's what the whole thing is about. Prove the Earth is older than 10,000 years and dominoes start falling over for some of these folks. Tug on a loose thread of a belief system -- any belief system -- and watch the sparks fly.

[BurgundyNGold]

Uhm..is there anybody out there that does NOT think this? I seriously hope not...
Don't worry. there are plenty of people who think that evolution is a sham. I'm not one of them but there are plenty.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Don't worry. there are plenty of people who think that evolution is a sham. I'm not one of them but there are plenty.
Disturbing...

[BurgundyNGold]

Disturbing...
Telling, actually.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Telling, actually.
I guess both...

[smoak]

I think we're all part of some cosmic experiment started by some alien race millions of years ago.

[dj_stouty]

I just impressed with the frequent use of "mutually exclusive" in this thread. ;)

Back on topic; Can someone explain what "Intelligent Design" is? I've read this thread and still don't know.

[CNYSkinFan]

http://blog.outer-court.com/files/tom-cruise-at-yahoo.jpg

How dare you speak of Xenu. Only a 12th level auditor has that information. Now prepare to die.

[AGibbsGirl]

crud...I voted neither of the two...I meant to vote Intelligent Design....thank God, the one creating is intelligent because in my case the one created isn't so much!

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I just impressed with the frequent use of "mutually exclusive" in this thread. ;)

Back on topic; Can someone explain what "Intelligent Design" is? I've read this thread and still don't know.
This is a good question. By "Intelligent design", do people mean a literal interpretation of the Bible, in which God just created Adam and Eve, and then things went on from there? Or is it more like God created the universe, and then things evolved from then on? Because I can cope with the second one, but I just don't see how anybody could believe the first one..

[CNYSkinFan]

You can't have a combination of ID and Evolution. They are mutually exclusive theories based on the insistance of the ID folks to not acknowledge fact. The foundation premise of ID states that because of the singular complexity of organisms, or more specifically their subcomponents like an eyeball, that they could not have possible evolved to their current state without divine intervention. Of course, this isn't actually proving the theory of ID, rather it's more a shot to try and take down evolution.

The world is more than 10,000 years old, folks. It's not a matter of some evidence stating it -- ALL evidence shows this irrefutibly. Is it possible that God designed the world with evolution? Sure. In fact, that's my bet. But don't make the mistake of thinking that scenario is ID. ID is the cornerstone attempt by creationists to essentially give them a "scientific" argument (there is no science there and the scientific method is often skirted at every available opportunity) to say that the Earth is scarcely 10,000 years old, man descendant from Adam and Eve and the bible is to be interpreted literally.

The big one is that last part. Almost to a man, those who would advance ID believe in literal interpretation of the bible. So, really, that's what the whole thing is about. Prove the Earth is older than 10,000 years and dominoes start falling over for some of these folks. Tug on a loose thread of a belief system -- any belief system -- and watch the sparks fly.

While I agree Evolution and ID are mutually exclusive, I don't think Science and God are. If you have a Deist outlook, God is using Science to further his/her creation while not directly interfering. Thomas Aquinas, Benjamin Franklin, Galileo and many other notable religious & scietific figures have views along those lines. I think Science has all the answers to life's issues except for one, and that is the answer to why anything exists at all? Science cannot answer that question, that is why I have faith as well.

You don't throw out the whole of science because of one answer we cannot figure out though, that is just crazy. And that is what ID asks it's believers to do. I would call ID pseudo science but that is an insult to Phrenology and Astrology. ID is an attempt to get creationism taught in the classroom. It's a fraud and should be denounced as such.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

While I agree Evolution and ID are mutually exclusive, I don't think Science and God are. If you have a Deist outlook, God is using Science to further his/her creation while not directly interfering. Thomas Aquinas, Benjamin Franklin, Galileo and many other notable religious & scietific figures have views along those lines. I think Science has all the answers to life's issues except for one, and that is the answer to why anything exists at all? Science cannot answer that question, that is why I have faith as well.

You don't throw out the whole of science because of one answer we cannot figure out though, that is just crazy. And that is what ID asks it's believers to do. I would call ID pseudo science but that is an insult to Phrenology and Astrology. ID is an attempt to get creationism taught in the classroom. It's a fraud and should be denounced as such.
I pretty much agree with this word for word.

[CNYSkinFan]

I just impressed with the frequent use of "mutually exclusive" in this thread. ;)

Back on topic; Can someone explain what "Intelligent Design" is? I've read this thread and still don't know.

ID or Intelligent Design is a creationist theory that states based on the cmplexity of life that a guiding intelligense (ie GOD) must have been behind it's creation. It says it is a science but has no basis in scientific fact beyond the mere fact you can't prove it is wrong.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

ID or Intelligent Design is a creationist theory that states based on the cmplexity of life that a guiding intelligense (ie GOD) must have been behind it's creation. It says it is a science but has no basis in scientific fact beyond the mere fact you can't prove it is wrong.
But at what point did the creation happen? Man? The universe? "Life"?

[akhhorus]

ID or Intelligent Design is a creationist theory that states based on the cmplexity of life that a guiding intelligense (ie GOD) must have been behind it's creation. It says it is a science but has no basis in scientific fact beyond the mere fact you can't prove it is wrong.

Its based on disproving a negative basically.

[CNYSkinFan]

Its based on disproving a negative basically.
exactly. Which is why it is so hard to shake true believers from the hold of ID. They set up a false premise: That since Science can not pprove God does not exist then all of science must be wrong. Unfortunately most scienteists are aetheist or agniostic or worse to most evangelicals, secular jews, so they take the bait and try and argue religious philosophy with logic, which allows the ministers and evangelical teachers of ID to perpetuate the mythic confrontation even further.

The whole myth of a debate between ID and Evolution is laughable.

[C-7]

I think we're all part of some cosmic experiment started by some alien race millions of years ago.



Wow that would totally suck.

[Green-Is-Good]

Spicy,
I don't see how you can look at someone who doesn't believe in evolution with contempt unless either you have lived throughout the evolution process (which is impossible) or you are an anthropologist.

[BurgundyNGold]

I think we're all part of some cosmic experiment started by some alien race millions of years ago.
Tom Cruise?

[BurgundyNGold]

While I agree Evolution and ID are mutually exclusive, I don't think Science and God are. If you have a Deist outlook, God is using Science to further his/her creation while not directly interfering. Thomas Aquinas, Benjamin Franklin, Galileo and many other notable religious & scietific figures have views along those lines. I think Science has all the answers to life's issues except for one, and that is the answer to why anything exists at all? Science cannot answer that question, that is why I have faith as well.

You don't throw out the whole of science because of one answer we cannot figure out though, that is just crazy. And that is what ID asks it's believers to do. I would call ID pseudo science but that is an insult to Phrenology and Astrology. ID is an attempt to get creationism taught in the classroom. It's a fraud and should be denounced as such.
Exactly. And I agree with you that while ID and Evolution are mutually exclusive, science and Gid are not. In fact, many scientists are religious BECAUSE of their expiriments. When asked about the theory of relativity and how he came up with it, Einstein noted that he tried to figure out what God would do. Imagine that, a scientist disproving literal interpretation of the Bible, yet reaffirming his belief in God. That sounds exactly like what you are saying .

[SkinsASchamps]

Spicy,
I don't see how you can look at someone who doesn't believe in evolution with contempt unless either you have lived throughout the evolution process (which is impossible) or you are an anthropologist.

I think it is more a matter of education. If you have read and understand evolution and natural selection then a rational person will think it is true. If someone doesnt understand it or hasnt read up on it then you cannot say whether they are wrong but rather ignorant. If someone understands the whole idea and still doesnt accept it then something may be wrong. I think that is what he was trying to say but not quite as worded.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Spicy,
I don't see how you can look at someone who doesn't believe in evolution with contempt unless either you have lived throughout the evolution process (which is impossible) or you are an anthropologist.
Uhm, besides the million or so pieces of evidence that prove that evolution has actually happened? That's like saying you can't say the moon exists unless you have been there or are an astronaut.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I think it is more a matter of education. If you have read and understand evolution and natural selection then a rational person will think it is true.If someone doesnt understand it or hasnt read up on it then you cannot say whether they are wrong but rather ignorant. If someone understands the whole idea and still doesnt accept it then something may be wrong. I think that is what he was trying to say but not quite as worded.
If you have read and understand evolution and natural selection then a rational person will know it is true. And ignorance cannot be an excuse. If a person is ignorant in the matter, than he should not participate in the discussion, not say that something does not exist.

[BurgundyNGold]

But at what point did the creation happen? Man? The universe? "Life"?
I believe that, according to "young Earth" theories, the Earth is supposed to be less than 8,000 years old and closer to 6,000 years old due to projections of the the strength of the magnetic field, amoount of helium in the atmosphere, etc in correlation with Biblical accounts.

[BurgundyNGold]

exactly. Which is why it is so hard to shake true believers from the hold of ID. They set up a false premise: That since Science can not pprove God does not exist then all of science must be wrong. Unfortunately most scienteists are aetheist or agniostic or worse to most evangelicals, secular jews, so they take the bait and try and argue religious philosophy with logic, which allows the ministers and evangelical teachers of ID to perpetuate the mythic confrontation even further.

The whole myth of a debate between ID and Evolution is laughable.
However, since it's inpossible to prove or disprove God, the Bible and the Earth are evidence of his existence. It's enough to make your head hurt sometimes. I wish these folks would stop polluting actual science with this disinformation campaign, though. Faith is faith. Period. Don't try to justify it through science in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. It defeats the purpose of having faith.

[smoak]

Tom Cruise?

The honorable profit Tom Cruise to you, sir.

:D

[BurgundyNGold]

Spicy,
I don't see how you can look at someone who doesn't believe in evolution with contempt unless either you have lived throughout the evolution process (which is impossible) or you are an anthropologist.
So, unless you are intricately familiar with the science involved, you shouldn't scoff at other people who don't?

[CNYSkinFan]

I think it is more a matter of education. If you have read and understand evolution and natural selection then a rational person will think it is true. If someone doesnt understand it or hasnt read up on it then you cannot say whether they are wrong but rather ignorant. If someone understands the whole idea and still doesnt accept it then something may be wrong. I think that is what he was trying to say but not quite as worded.
See this is the kind of trap that I was talking about. it is not about education but about faith and dogma. Very educated people geti involved in silly crap. Look at the Heaven's gate cult...all pretty educated people (computer programers if I remember) but they obviously had some issues with their belief system.

What the scientific community needs to do better at is not making it about Gor OR Evolution and make it more about God AND Evolution. The God "created" a scientific universe and Evolution and Science are one of the many colors he used in his Canvas of Creation.

[BurgundyNGold]

See this is the kind of trap that I was talking about. it is not about education but about faith and dogma. Very educated people geti involved in silly crap. Look at the Heaven's gate cult...all pretty educated people (computer programers if I remember) but they obviously had some issues with their belief system.

What the scientific community needs to do better at is not making it about Gor OR Evolution and make it more about God AND Evolution. The God "created" a scientific universe and Evolution and Science are one of the many colors he used in his Canvas of Creation.
The scientific community has never made it about God OR evolution. The faithful drew that line in the sand because it implies that the Bible is wrong and, since the Bible is the cornerstone of the Judeo-Christian belief system, challenging one of its accounts could open everything up to debate and metaphorical interpretation. That would pretty much take the rug out from under a lot of folks' belief systems.

[SkinsASchamps]

See this is the kind of trap that I was talking about. it is not about education but about faith and dogma. Very educated people geti involved in silly crap. Look at the Heaven's gate cult...all pretty educated people (computer programers if I remember) but they obviously had some issues with their belief system.

What the scientific community needs to do better at is not making it about Gor OR Evolution and make it more about God AND Evolution. The God "created" a scientific universe and Evolution and Science are one of the many colors he used in his Canvas of Creation.

Rational thinking and education are highly correlated. Your example is one example to the contrary but to most people who understand the concepts and can sort through them, they can see that evolution is real. Religion and God should have no power over whether people think evolution is real. Sadly this is not true. If these people were open to the idea and willing to look at it at face value then they could accept the truth but they wont because they bring other factors(God) into the equation which do not need to be there.

[SkinsASchamps]

The scientific community has never made it about God OR evolution. The faithful drew that line in the sand because it implies that the Bible is wrong and, since the Bible is the cornerstone of the Judeo-Christian belief system, challenging one of its accounts could open everything up to debate and metaphorical interpretation. That would pretty much take the rug out from under a lot of folks' belief systems.

Exactly. But by christians making it about God, they have brought this discussion on about the bible eventhough that wasnt intended by evolution. It is very interesting how that works.

[CNYSkinFan]

The scientific community has never made it about God OR evolution. The faithful drew that line in the sand because it implies that the Bible is wrong and, since the Bible is the cornerstone of the Judeo-Christian belief system, challenging one of its accounts could open everything up to debate and metaphorical interpretation. That would pretty much take the rug out from under a lot of folks' belief systems.
No the scientific community has not, BUT they have fallen into that trap by debating it at all Simply and clearly one should ask anyone wishing to debate ID vs. evolution whether God in his supreme knowledge could use Evolution to shape his creation of life as erosion shapes his creation fo the Earth. If they acknowledge it at all then the debate is over.

But there are some proponents of Evolution that have made it about belief in God as a whole, a small number compared to the IDs who have made it that way. Creationist need this fight to exist scientists don't. I just think over the last 30 years in america we have been having the battle of Faith vs. Science on Faith's battlefield. Science should co-opt them and disarm them.

[SkinsASchamps]

No the scientific community has not, BUT they have fallen into that trap by debating it at all Simply and clearly one should ask anyone wishing to debate ID vs. evolution whether God in his supreme knowledge could use Evolution to shape his creation of life as erosion shapes his creation fo the Earth. If they acknowledge it at all then the debate is over.

But there are some proponents of Evolution that have made it about belief in God as a whole, a small number compared to the IDs who have made it that way. Creationist need this fight to exist scientists don't. I just think over the last 30 years in america we have been having the battle of Faith vs. Science on Faith's battlefield. Science should co-opt them and disarm them.

Excellent point CNY. By allowing the arguement to include God, science is making the arguement about stuff it cannot win. Very good point indeed.

[BurgundyNGold]

Exactly. But by christians making it about God, they have brought this discussion on about the bible eventhough that wasnt intended by evolution. It is very interesting how that works.
It's self preservation. I don't blame them for doing it, but ID is still wrong and the fact that it is wrong does not lessen the odds that there is a God.

[BurgundyNGold]

No the scientific community has not, BUT they have fallen into that trap by debating it at all Simply and clearly one should ask anyone wishing to debate ID vs. evolution whether God in his supreme knowledge could use Evolution to shape his creation of life as erosion shapes his creation fo the Earth. If they acknowledge it at all then the debate is over.

But there are some proponents of Evolution that have made it about belief in God as a whole, a small number compared to the IDs who have made it that way. Creationist need this fight to exist scientists don't. I just think over the last 30 years in america we have been having the battle of Faith vs. Science on Faith's battlefield. Science should co-opt them and disarm them.
To continue your analogy, creationists aren't fighting with any ammunition or "arms". Their "science" is summarily dismissed because they don't adhere to the tenets of scientific process. What they do, however, is employ a propaganda campaign and, judging by this poll, a pretty effective one.

One quick thought: Science is arriving at truth through verifiable and repeatable observation. Faith is accepting a truth without any such corroborating evidence. So, arguing with one of these two is pretty pointless because no matter what evidence you provide, it'll never trump faith. So why bother... in this thread at least?

[SkinsASchamps]

To continue your analogy, creationists aren't fighting with any ammunition or "arms". Their "science" is summarily dismissed because they don't adhere to the tenets of scientific process. What they do, however, is employ a propaganda campaign and, judging by this poll, a pretty effective one.

One quick thought: Science is arriving at truth through verifiable and repeatable observation. Faith is accepting a truth without any such corroborating evidence. So, arguing with one of these two is pretty pointless because no matter what evidence you provide, it'll never trump faith. So why bother... in this thread at least?

This is going to stray the topic but your question is intriguing. I think eventually faith wont be what it is today. Christianity will fall and people will live their lives without believing in a higher being. The void that faith fills is constantly being filled for people in different ways. All religions fade and something takes the place. Im not saying this will happen today or tomrorow but eventually it makes sense that it will.

[bwparker]

My opinion is not represented here. So I voted with evolution because it most closely matches my opinion.

I believe evolution to be the best answer to the question of our origin, but it could be wrong/flawed. The body of people that determine the tenets of evolution (the scientific community) readily admits that as well. Thats how science works. There is no conjecture beyond question, everything must be verified and repeated. Its from this constant questioning that science derives its strength and reliability.

Religion is the opposite. Its eschews new findings and staunchly refuses to change in the face of overwhelming amounts of evidence.

If I knew nothing about either of the theories(evolution or ID) knowing the strategies that each of their respective communities use to come up with their opinions would be enough for me to decide. But make note, this does not mean that I believe evolution is fact. It is simply the best possible explanation that is backed by many observable facts and repeatable experiments.

[PyroGenic]

I chose both but that was while I was drunk. I believe in Evolution. ID is created by an overly paranoid and easily agitated religious group that believes that it has to defend itself against anything and everything that may hurt their following.

The earth wasn't created 10,000 years ago (been to any museums EVER? Dinosaurs = 60 million years ago and life on earth began like 4 billion years ago).
I'm not trying to call people that believe in ID dumb, they're just blinded by people that are trying to take advantage of their faith.

I don't think Adam and Eve were literal people. It was a story to tell a moral and to see man's first relationship with God and the Devil and to explain things to people so that they would understand.

I like CNY's "god created evolution" thing because that makes the most sense.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I chose both but that was while I was drunk. I believe in Evolution. ID is created by an overly paranoid and easily agitated religious group that believes that it has to defend itself against anything and everything that may hurt their following.

The earth wasn't created 10,000 years ago (been to any museums EVER? Dinosaurs = 60 million years ago and life on earth began like 4 billion years ago).
I'm not trying to call people that believe in ID dumb, they're just blinded by people that are trying to take advantage of their faith.

I don't think Adam and Eve were literal people. It was a story to tell a moral and to see man's first relationship with God and the Devil and to explain things to people so that they would understand.

I like CNY's "god created evolution" thing because that makes the most sense.
Yeah..and shally was already a teenager 10,000 years ago...

[Green-Is-Good]

Uhm, besides the million or so pieces of evidence that prove that evolution has actually happened? That's like saying you can't say the moon exists unless you have been there or are an astronaut.

Firstly, there is an obvious distinction between the moon and evolution. Evolution is a concept; a theory. The moon is not a concept, it's a moon. It can be seen. Knowing the moon exists is as simple as looking at the skies. Knowing evolution exists (as FACT) takes much more.

Where are the "million or so pieces of evidence?" You speak of them vaguely.

BTW I am not necessarily against evolution (and frankly I don't see why it is such a hot-button issue), I am against evolutionists who look at creationists with contempt when they themselves do not have such a firm grasp on the subject matter.

[BurgundyNGold]

Firstly, there is an obvious distinction between the moon and evolution. Evolution is a concept; a theory. The moon is not a concept, it's a moon. It can be seen. Knowing the moon exists is as simple as looking at the skies. Knowing evolution exists (as FACT) takes much more.

Where are the "million or so pieces of evidence?" You speak of them vaguely.

BTW I am not necessarily against evolution (and frankly I don't see why it is such a hot-button issue), I am against evolutionists who look at creationists with contempt when they themselves do not have such a firm grasp on the subject matter.
Please elaborate.

[Green-Is-Good]

Please elaborate.

Creationists are often viewed upon as feeble-minded religious morons by many evolutionists (although, to be fair, evolutionists are viewed as heathens by many creationists). And many of these evolutionists have no more of a basis for their beliefs than creationists. They merely believe in it because it is in line with their general ideology. But in spite of this unsubstantial foundation, they have a certain arrogance with regards to those who do not share their views.

I am not a creationist. But I am often mocked by my atheist friends for believing in God, as though they know of the secrets of the universe any more than I do. I am not saying this is your attitude of Spicy's attitude, I am saying that this "holier than thou" approach disgusts me, regardless of who is practising it.

[akhhorus]

Creationists are often viewed upon as feeble-minded religious morons by many evolutionists (although, to be fair, evolutionists are viewed as heathens by many creationists). And many of these evolutionists have no more of a basis for their beliefs than creationists. They merely believe in it because it is in line with their general ideology. But in spite of this unsubstantial foundation, they have a certain arrogance with regards to those who do not share their views.

Thats simply not true. There's been legions of scientists who have destroyed entire forests proving this. I would recommend Gould's "Evolution as a Fact and theory" as a starting point. There's no proof what so ever of Creationism and ID because its based not on science at all(Behe aside), its based on faith and supposition.

I am not a creationist. But I am often mocked by my atheist friends for believing in God, as though they know of the secrets of the universe any more than I do. I am not saying this is your attitude of Spicy's attitude, I am saying that this "holier than thou" approach disgusts me, regardless of who is practising it.

And aren't you practicing it a bit with your posts in this thread? You're acting a bit holier than thou with your attitude in this thread also.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Creationists are often viewed upon as feeble-minded religious morons by many evolutionists (although, to be fair, evolutionists are viewed as heathens by many creationists). And many of these evolutionists have no more of a basis for their beliefs than creationists. They merely believe in it because it is in line with their general ideology. But in spite of this unsubstantial foundation, they have a certain arrogance with regards to those who do not share their views.

I am not a creationist. But I am often mocked by my atheist friends for believing in God, as though they know of the secrets of the universe any more than I do. I am not saying this is your attitude of Spicy's attitude, I am saying that this "holier than thou" approach disgusts me, regardless of who is practising it.
This is a joke right?
You mean to tell me that there is equal amount of evidence (actual real-life stuff) to support the theory of evolution than there is to support a theory that states that the Earth is about 10,000 years old and so on and so forth?
Can I suggest a few field trips to all those that believe this?
Here you go:
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/
http://www.amnh.org/
http://www.mnh.si.edu/

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Firstly, there is an obvious distinction between the moon and evolution. Evolution is a concept; a theory. The moon is not a concept, it's a moon. It can be seen. Knowing the moon exists is as simple as looking at the skies. Knowing evolution exists (as FACT) takes much more.

Where are the "million or so pieces of evidence?" You speak of them vaguely.

BTW I am not necessarily against evolution (and frankly I don't see why it is such a hot-button issue), I am against evolutionists who look at creationists with contempt when they themselves do not have such a firm grasp on the subject matter.
If you open your eyes and actually WANT to look, so can evolution.

[HAWGZHEAD]

I thought evolution was the teaching that we were all the result of 5 monkeys having sex with a retarded fish-squirrel, or at least that is what Ms. Garrison taught me. :)

[BurgundyNGold]

I thought evolution was the teaching that we were all the result of 5 monkeys having sex with a retarded fish-squirrel, or at least that is what Ms. Garrison taught me. :)
LMAO!

[HAWGZHEAD]

LMAO!If you missed it lol... http://youtube.com/watch?v=5ulfa4NSgzk NSFW, I guess.

[WarEagle]

If you missed it lol... http://youtube.com/watch?v=5ulfa4NSgzk NSFW, I guess.

South Park is brilliant! That was hilarious. Thank you.:lol1:

[BurgundyNGold]

If you missed it lol... http://youtube.com/watch?v=5ulfa4NSgzk NSFW, I guess.
I saw it. That's why I LMAO. ;)