Who Belongs on the Field

[Brokenstriker]

Lots of chatter about the talent on the team (and the disgust of not seeing it used, etc.). Curious who you think those people are.

Who on the Redskins ... belongs on the field? Not for charities sake, I mean who has come to work, who has brought intensity, played a solid physical and mental game, and would be a starter of choice on any/most NFL teams?

Let me take the few easy ones (that I see) off the table ...
Moss
Portis




If you remove that last part about being a starter, and include role players ...
maybe you add ...
Evans
Tharp
Cartwright
Randle El
Vincent

who is really at these levels on this team? Your thoughts? Seriously, it couldn't be a long list given the things we have seen this season.

[FunBunch5]

Lots of chatter about the talent on the team (and the disgust of not seeing it used, etc.). Curious who you think those people are.

Who on the Redskins ... belongs on the field? Not for charities sake, I mean who has come to work, who has brought intensity, played a solid physical and mental game, and would be a starter of choice on any/most NFL teams?

Let me take the few easy ones (that I see) off the table ...
Moss
Portis




If you remove that last part about being a starter, and include role players ...
maybe you add ...
Evans
Tharp
Cartwright
Randle El
Vincent

who is really at these levels on this team? Your thoughts? Seriously, it couldn't be a long list given the things we have seen this season.

Lloyd - It doesn't seem like the offense is going through him enough to utilize his talents.

ARE - See comments about Lloyd

Cooley -Seems to be picking it up these last few weeks

Carter - I am hearing his named called more and more. I

[Redskinmayhem]

Don't forget Sellers. He's missed a few blocking assignments in the past few weeks(especially yesterday) but he always brings intensity and he's always ready to bust some heads.

[bwparker]

I think Samuels, Jansen and Thomas on the o-line could start for many teams.
Griffin on d-line.
Marcus Washington.
Chris Cooley.
Sean Taylor would probably be starting.

Thats all I can think of off the top of my head.

[Red Bear]

marcus washington

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I think Samuels, Jansen and Thomas on the o-line could start for many teams.
Griffin on d-line.
Marcus Washington.
Chris Cooley.
Sean Taylor would probably be starting.

Thats all I can think of off the top of my head.
My opinion about our Oline is starting to change. We are at best inconsistent. But I think its probably worse than that. I think we have a tendancy to overrate these guys based on past performance.

Truth is we are poor pass blocking team.

As far as players who have earned it on the field, there are not many.

[bwparker]

My opinion about our Oline is starting to change. We are at best inconsistent. But I think its probably worse than that. I think we have a tendancy to overrate these guys based on past performance.

Truth is we are poor pass blocking team.

As far as players who have earned it on the field, there are not many.
I agree with you. I mean, I named 7 players, plus Moss and Portis that makes 9. 9/22 is not good. Hell, our punter and kicker suck too. So thats really 9/24.

As far as our O-line goes...yeah...its tough, they looked horrible in pass protection yesterday, but looked good on run blocking. Which just happens to be pretty much the opposite of how they looked against the Boy's last week. Sometimes I just wonder if part of the problem is with the Redskins, and not so much the individual players. I'm not making any accusations, per se, just saying that I think those 3 guys could/would probably start in many other places.

[PennSkinsFan]

First and foremost, Jason Campbell. I really think our offense is so limited under Brunell. Campbell should be starter, should have the rest of the season to begin establishing chemistry with Moss, Lloyd, and ARE. It really makes no logical sense to hold off anymore. Any QB needs time to develop that chemistry with receivers and what better time than right now, then next season, it has been nourished.

Starting JC now also gives him ample time to make young mistakes, learn to read NFL defenses, and develop comfort in the Redskins offense.

Rocky McIntosh. He was drafted to replace Arrington, now is the time to do just that.

[GibbsFan]

First and foremost, Jason Campbell. I really think our offense is so limited under Brunell. Campbell should be starter, should have the rest of the season to begin establishing chemistry with Moss, Lloyd, and ARE. It really makes no logical sense to hold off anymore. Any QB needs time to develop that chemistry with receivers and what better time than right now, then next season, it has been nourished.

Starting JC now also gives him ample time to make young mistakes, learn to read NFL defenses, and develop comfort in the Redskins offense.

Rocky McIntosh. He was drafted to replace Arrington, now is the time to do just that.

Absolutely agree, when Brunell had the pick returned for a TD I was hoping and praying Campbell would be warmed up. Maybe Philly was not the ideal place for his debut, but the team mailed in from thereon and that speaks volumes to me.

At this point we have seen what is not working, so changes should be made. On the OL I would bench Dockery, and replace with somebody else. Who, I dunno but he had too many penalties and guys need to answer for crappy play.

Wynn/Evans should get more snaps and Rocky should be brought into the mix with maybe even Arch getting some snaps at WLB. Whatever changes that occur please get Mark outta there, I have seen enough of him for awhile.

[openallnight]

Talent is our biggest problem. Here's the short list that would probably start on most nfl rosters.
On D:
Washington
Griffen (if he's 100% healthy)
Taylor (may actually be better at SS)

On O:
Lloyd
Randel El
Cooley
Samuels
(Add in moss and portis)
That's 9 viable starters out of 22 positions. And 3 are WRs so, that's really 9 out of 23 spots. I think breaking it down like this makes it very apparent why we are where we are.

[Brokenstriker]

so we're talking about ....

3 WRs (out of 3)
Moss
Lloyd
ARE

1 TE (out of 1)
Cooley

1 LB (out of 3)
Washington (a subject of many a talk show "expert" as dropping off significantly)

1 OL (out of 5)
Samuals (frankly I think this is a stretch)

1 DL (out of 4 - 6)
Griffin (with caveat of healthly)

2 RB (out of 2)
Portis
Sellers

1 DB (out of 4 - 5)
Taylor (absolutely on talent ... but no on mental ... is it 4 Personals this season?)

Potential Players
1 QB
Campbell (but does anyone REALLY know if he is any good?)

1 LB
McIntosh (see comment on Campbell)

Role Players
1 RB
Betts (as #2's go he's pretty solid)

1 ST
Cartwright (but only as ST player)

1 DB/ST
Vincent (does he have any brothers?)

1 WR/ST
Tharp (picture the Dallas game without him)


Nice ... but where are the linemen and linebackers?

[PennSkinsFan]

Looking to 2007

3 WRs (out of 3)
Moss
Lloyd
ARE


These are the main 3 and are set for 2007. Beyond these 3, I would be willing to look at what is available as far as younger guys. Thrash should be kept for simple reasons of reliability and special teams.

1 LB (out of 3)
Washington (a subject of many a talk show "expert" as dropping off significantly)

I think Washington's drop off has been a product of an unstable and unresponsive defense. Washington is a keeper. I would replace Holdman with McIntosh NOW, and look and see what is availabel at MLB.

1 DL (out of 4 - 6)
Griffin (with caveat of healthly)

This year is just extremely valuable to Kedirc Golston. The expereince he is getting is awesome. I would spend the first round pick on a pass rushing DE. If Grif can stay healthy and Golston continue to imporve, I think we have a middle line solves. We need to address DE in a big way.

1 DB (out of 4 - 5)
Taylor (absolutely on talent ... but no on mental ... is it 4 Personals this season?)


Move Springs to S, hopefully he can get Taylor back where he needs to be. If we spend on free agency this year, which I PRAY and HOPE that we are extremely limiting in free agency because it is killing us in cohesiveness and chemsitry and is one fo the utmost failures of the Snyder Ownership, it would be here to replace Springs with a quality DB.

OFFENSIVE LINE:

Who knows. Blow it up for all I care. These guys are a bunch of underachievers with alot of hype.

SPECIAL TEAMS:

Bring in at least 3 Kickers and 3 Punters. Let them battle it out with emphasis on youth.

NOW, that being said, will the Redskisn make some surprising moves to gain draft picks?

[Green-Is-Good]

You can GAIN draft picks?!?!?

[Dept_of_Defense]

so we're talking about ....



1 WR/ST
Tharp (picture the Dallas game without him)


Nice ... but where are the linemen and linebackers?

Who's Tharp?

[Dept_of_Defense]

I personally think the only offensive producers other than CP and Moss are Cooley and Lloyd. Both are being under-utilized because Brunell cannot get the ball downfield and the playcalling has been schizophrenic.

On defense I would like to say that nobody's job is safe other than Washington, Griffin, and Taylor (and this is just because GW loves him so much. His play has been mediocre @ best the last few weeks).

I don't want to see Nick Novak in a Redskin uni next season. I love the kid for winning 2 games for us, but I cannot stand opponents fielding our kickoffs @ the 15 yard line. We need to seriously think about drafting a young kicker with a canon leg, or go after an accurate veteran. Could you imagine how many more games we would've been in this year if Vinatieri was a Redskin? We might have @ least 2 more wins.

[Brokenstriker]

Who's Tharp?

LMAO ... a guy I work with ... I meant to type Thrash

[Patrick]

ARE and Washington seem to be the only ones showing any emotion.
The rest - my signature pretty much sums them up.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

LMAO ... a guy I work with ... I meant to type Thrash
Can he play?

[RedskinRyan]

as far as im concerned, and as much as i love jansen and what hes done for the franchise, none of the oline is worth keeping. they arent opening any holes, and brunell never really had time to throw at all yesterday.

brian westbrook got over 100 yards on us? the dline hasnt done much either. linebacker unit is alright, but lemar marshall hasnt shown much capability of covering anyone, yet it baffles me that alot of plays i see him getting beat by WR's. no need to furthur discuss AA's issues, although i dont think he was the issue yesterday. but the secondary is terrible, although carlos rogers covered very well from what i saw.

sean taylor is back to missing tackles, has to be fixed. afterall, he is supposed to become the cornerstone of our defense.

[Brokenstriker]

Can he play?

he's a scratch golfer ... so there's potential

[Oregonian]

as far as im concerned, and as much as i love jansen and what hes done for the franchise, none of the oline is worth keeping. they arent opening any holes, and brunell never really had time to throw at all yesterday.


Agreed. This to me is the root of our offensive problems.

[bgforever]

Originally posted by FUNBUNCH5 Carter - I am hearing his named called more and more.


I really would like to hear his name called more and more particularly in more key sacks and blowing plays up. :)

[Meatsnack]

Most all of our starters are legit NFL quality players. It is shorter to name he ones who aren't.

Novak - no leg, next
Frost - no consistency
Fauria - no talent or effort
Rabach - done
Jansen - hurt or done
Holdman - done a year ago

The rest are either hurt or new to the team.

Archuleta was good before he came here, he didn't start to suck because he crossed the Potomac.
Carter - improving weekly
Daniels/Salave'a/Griffen - dinged, they still seem OK when healthy

[redskin_rich]

Most all of our starters are legit NFL quality players. It is shorter to name he ones who aren't.

Novak - no leg, next
Frost - no consistency
Fauria - no talent or effort
Rabach - done
Jansen - hurt or done
Holdman - done a year ago

The rest are either hurt or new to the team.

Archuleta was good before he came here, he didn't start to suck because he crossed the Potomac.
Carter - improving weekly
Daniels/Salave'a/Griffen - dinged, they still seem OK when healthy
Novak has been hitting the distances on his FG's, accuracy has been his problem. I would at least keep him for the remainder of the season and hope he gets it together.
Agree on Frost.
Fauria has been a disappointment.
Rabach and Jansen should still be in their primes and I can't believe they became bad overnight. I think it has more to do with Brunell's struggles, Portis being in and out of the lineup and the scheme change. I wouldn't give up on guys their age that have been productive as recent as last year.
Holdman has played better this year but didn't we give up two 2nd rd and a 6th rd pick for his replacement [Rocky]? Why isn't he playing?

[Biggie]

Novak has been hitting the distances on his FG's, accuracy has been his problem. I would at least keep him for the remainder of the season and hope he gets it together.
Agree on Frost.
Fauria has been a disappointment.
Rabach and Jansen should still be in their primes and I can't believe they became bad overnight. I think it has more to do with Brunell's struggles, Portis being in and out of the lineup and the scheme change. I wouldn't give up on guys their age that have been productive as recent as last year.
Holdman has played better this year but didn't we give up two 2nd rd and a 6th rd pick for his replacement [Rocky]? Why isn't he playing?

I predict that McIntosh will be playing by the Carolina game. We don't have time to get Holdman experience he doesn't need.

[greatest2]

we are just a mess

pretty old team...cap problems (though it seems we say that every year).....young players anywhere to be seen in the trenchs (o-line, d-line)...how about youth at LB....

anyway, like i said, we a mess:banghead:

as much as i may get burned for this.....i still think Gibbs can get it done, and i still have extreme faith in him right til the end...

[skins67]

u guys are pathetic,last year these same players took us to the play offs,after i remind u a long absence. And now u think non of them would start on any other team shy of a select few.I've been a skins fan since I was three and I've seen all kinds of BS but giving up on the skins was never an option. Giving up on these players isn,t an option either because they are REDSKINS,coach believes and so do I.Joe hasn't lost his touch and I haven't lost my faith HAIL SKINS.

[skins67]

O by the way I'm 38 now!

[greatest2]

O by the way I'm 38 now!

dude, we don't need your credentials, we all got the same, otherwise we wouldn't be here....

relax, different people have different opinions, personally i still like these players and coachs, but don't degrade other's if they dont

i think almost all our guys can start for other teams, and certanily our coachs, shy of frost and nick (maybe nick in a couple years), we have a great group

[WarEagle]

Some coaches like to play the guy with maybe not the best natural talent, but 100% spark and a positive warrior attitude. Belichick and Parcells are good at spotting these creatures, and they work on developing them. Tuna spoke at length about these kind of guys at one of his pressers a couple weeks ago. (Sorry for the references to Parcells, but I was in Boston when he coached the Pats to a Super Bowl, and I admire him.)

[LATrueRedskin]

Here's my list:

Clinton Portis
Mike Sellers
Randy Thomas
Chris Cooley
Santana Moss
Antwaan Randle El
Cornelius Griffin
Lemar Marshall
Shawn Springs
Sean Taylor

I think all of these guys play with high intensity and really leave everything out on the field. There are some players whom I think are on the brink of making my list, but I need to see a little bit more from them.

[redwolf1218]

Here's my list:

Clinton Portis
Mike Sellers
Randy Thomas
Chris Cooley
Santana Moss
Antwaan Randle El
Cornelius Griffin
Lemar Marshall
Shawn Springs
Sean Taylor

I think all of these guys play with high intensity and really leave everything out on the field. There are some players whom I think are on the brink of making my list, but I need to see a little bit more from them.
good list. i'm 42, lol. i think this staff has done well to build a roster. now then they have set out to build a mentality, and chemistry, which is difficult nowadays, but i believe it will yield results, to build on last year's 2nd round playoff appearance and on into the future.

[redskin_rich]

Here's my list:

Clinton Portis
Mike Sellers
Randy Thomas
Chris Cooley
Santana Moss
Antwaan Randle El
Cornelius Griffin
Lemar Marshall
Shawn Springs
Sean Taylor

I think all of these guys play with high intensity and really leave everything out on the field. There are some players whom I think are on the brink of making my list, but I need to see a little bit more from them.
No Marcus Washington or Chris Samuels?

[LATrueRedskin]

No Marcus Washington or Chris Samuels?

Not with how they're playing this year. I think Chris is a fine player, but he's lacking the mentality I think is necessary for his position. He should be the best tackle in the game, and he should take the field with that kind of confidence.

Marcus would have easily been #1 on my list the last two years, but I'm not seeing the same player that I have seen in the past. He's not swarming to the ball nearly as much as he usually does, and he's been taking bad angles and attempting weak tackles. I left him off because he's the leader of the defense in my mind, and his intensity/production has taken a big drop.

[redskin_rich]

Not with how they're playing this year. I think Chris is a fine player, but he's lacking the mentality I think is necessary for his position. He should be the best tackle in the game, and he should take the field with that kind of confidence.

Marcus would have easily been #1 on my list the last two years, but I'm not seeing the same player that I have seen in the past. He's not swarming to the ball nearly as much as he usually does, and he's been taking bad angles and attempting weak tackles. I left him off because he's the leader of the defense in my mind, and his intensity/production has taken a big drop.
I may be alone on this but I think both Marcus and Samuels are bringing it every week. I think both have suffered from things out of their control.

[redwolf1218]

Marcus and Samuels were not Gibbs' aquisitions. Marcus is good, but Samuels is no Lachey or Lachoby.

[LATrueRedskin]

I may be alone on this but I think both Marcus and Samuels are bringing it every week. I think both have suffered from things out of their control.

I agree with that about Samuels, but I think Marcus should be playing much, much better than he is. He's been missing a ton of tackles, and is caught out of place every now and then, which are two things that made him a very good player here the past 2 years.

[LATrueRedskin]

Marcus and Samuels were not Gibbs' aquisitions.

Marcus was.

[redskin_rich]

Marcus and Samuels were not Gibbs' aquisitions.
Marcus was but I didn't realize that was what we were talking about. Lemar Marshall wasn't a Gibbs acquisition.

[LATrueRedskin]

Marcus was but I didn't realize that was what we were talking about. Lemar Marshall wasn't a Gibbs acquisition.

Yeah, I didn't know that either lol. I thought it was just players that are on the team regardless of where they came from.

[redwolf1218]

Marcus was.
thanks, i figured he was he here before Gibbs. that's good then.

[redwolf1218]

Marcus was but I didn't realize that was what we were talking about. Lemar Marshall wasn't a Gibbs acquisition.
i kind of started a debate about Gibbs' aquisitions, defending him, where someone mentioned a percentage of success, where i stated that i thought Gibbs had a better percentage of success than they stated, so i started naming names, hoping more names would be added. Marcus was a name that got added. i still maintain that Gibbs has been successful in his additions to the team, in shaping it towards his preferences.

[redskin_rich]

i kind of started a debate about Gibbs' aquisitions, defending him, where someone mentioned a percentage of success, where i stated that i thought Gibbs had a better percentage of success than they stated, so i started naming names, hoping more names would be added. Marcus was a name that got added. i still maintain that Gibbs has been successful in his additions to the team, in shaping it towards his preferences.
Yeah, I think Gibbs has had more hits than misses. We are about 50/50 on the old vets that have been brought in:
Patten and Fauria can't stay healthy, Barrow never saw the field.
Raymer was bad.
Brunell was good when healthy and Ray Brown was decent filling in at Guard but overmatched at Tackle.
Thrash has done well in his spot and Vincent has been good so far.
Am I missing anybody of the graybeard crew?

[LATrueRedskin]

Yeah, I think Gibbs has had more hits than misses. We are about 50/50 on the old vets that have been brought in:
Patten and Fauria can't stay healthy, Barrow never saw the field.
Raymer was bad.
Brunell was good when healthy and Ray Brown was decent filling in at Guard but overmatched at Tackle.
Thrash has done well in his spot and Vincent has been good so far.
Am I missing anybody of the graybeard crew?

EDIT: Nevermind, overread Brunell.

[Brokenstriker]

u guys are pathetic,last year these same players took us to the play offs,after i remind u a long absence. And now u think non of them would start on any other team shy of a select few.I've been a skins fan since I was three and I've seen all kinds of BS but giving up on the skins was never an option. Giving up on these players isn,t an option either because they are REDSKINS,coach believes and so do I.Joe hasn't lost his touch and I haven't lost my faith HAIL SKINS.

A - Not giving up
B - Every career comes to an end ... sometimes it fades over a few years and sometimes it happens all at once. In any case ... Jansen isn't playing as well as he did 3 years ago, neither is Samuels, Dock isn't moving LBs, Rogers isn't even trying to shut down receivers, Taylor has returned to bad habits, etc. The defense isn't creating turnovers, the swagger is waaay gone, ...

To make the point ... Mark Rypien took them to the Super Bowl ... doesn't mean he should be starting at QB now. And concluding that doesn't make you pathetic .. it means you care about the Redskins enough to expect and want to see quality performances on the field.

[Meatsnack]

Novak has been hitting the distances on his FG's, accuracy has been his problem. I would at least keep him for the remainder of the season and hope he gets it together.
Agree on Frost.
Fauria has been a disappointment.
Rabach and Jansen should still be in their primes and I can't believe they became bad overnight. I think it has more to do with Brunell's struggles, Portis being in and out of the lineup and the scheme change. I wouldn't give up on guys their age that have been productive as recent as last year.
Holdman has played better this year but didn't we give up two 2nd rd and a 6th rd pick for his replacement [Rocky]? Why isn't he playing?
My comment regarding Novak's leg was more a comment on his kickoffs than his FGs. He is fair at longer FGs. I don't think too highly of his accuracy on FGs either, though.
I agree that Rabach and Jansen shouldn't be dropping off like they have after pretty good 2005 campaigns. But, they have/are. My eyes tell me that they stink out loud with the exception of the Jaguars game this year. If our whole line played that way all the time then we are sitting pretty with a strong winning record right now. Clearly they can play at a high level they just choose not to. Jansen has looked really bad at times this season and Rabach has come down with Raymer's Syndrome in which all leg strength and mobility flee your body at once.
Holdman was playing pretty well in our first three/four games and was< I seem to recall, our leading tackler for much of that stretch. However, he has fallen off and wasn't a Pro-Bowl class LB at his best here in DC. I can only conclude that GW sees something on McIntosh in practice that frightens him away from starting the kid. Who knows?

[Dept_of_Defense]

Unless Novak starts kicking them into the endzone on kickoffs, I want him gone next year. He has no leg strength on kickoffs and the opponents are fielding his kicks @ the 15 yard line which is pathetic. On field goals he has unofficially become the new 50/50. He really needs to become more consistent which I think will happen with time, but the kickoff thing just bugs me so much that I still want him gone next year.

[dabro]

My opinion about our Oline is starting to change. We are at best inconsistent. But I think its probably worse than that. I think we have a tendancy to overrate these guys based on past performance.

Truth is we are poor pass blocking team.

As far as players who have earned it on the field, there are not many.These guys are all coming off operations in the off season. Because they are OL we never hear about it, but I think it affects their play.

[bgforever]

These guys are all coming off operations in the off season. Because they are OL we never hear about it, but I think it affects their play.

Them and other players. Sure its league-wide every year, but I think these guys bear more than their fair share of playing with injuries or recovering.