Betts and Duckett

[santanadasavior]

Now that Portis is out for the year, Duckett and Betts are going to be carrying the load on the ground for the rest of the year. Now I believe that both of their contracts are up at the end of the season, so these last seven weeks are very important to each of them. Simple question, where will they end up next year? Wait for the poll.

[redwolf1218]

i am wondering where they will end up this year on our offense.

Betts came in on 3rd downs, now he starts. does that mean he's an every-down back, even though Portis was not? does anyone expect Duckett to be a 3rd down back?

does it mean Duckett plays the run like Portis did, while Betts still comes in on 3rd downs?

will Betts really take himself out if he's hurt or tired, to let Duckett come in, like Portis did for Betts? i doubt it, seeing as how he's in a contract year.

i really think it would be ideal to start Duckett and leave Betts in the role he has been in all year while Portis was starting, but i doubt that will happen due to Gibbs' loyalty to players with seniority status.

i doubt they will be able to re-sign both Duckett and Betts, and i think Duckett will get better offers on the free agent market. i hope they get to keep Duckett, but i fear they will lose both, or just get Betts back.

[CNYSkinFan]

I think neither will be here come next year.

Betts will get plenty of carries and leave for greener pastures and a chance to start provided he stays healthy the rest of the way.

Duckett has not been treated well while here and only got used after Portis goes down to injury. He will seek a payday and the opportunity to be used somewhere else I imagine as well.

We will need to sign a veteran back to spell Portis.

[santanadasavior]

My guess is that we end up keeping one of them. The other goes to the Steelers. I think we keep Duckett.

[Green-Is-Good]

Betts will go to NYG
Duckett will go to Dallass or Philadelphia
:(

[redwolf1218]

i would love to see Duckett get 30 carries, but we cant have that because it would make Betts cry.

[DoGood]

I think we keep Duckett if he wants to resign. He seems a much better complement to Portis to me.

[silverspring]

I also say neither. I know a lot of people were knocking betts early this season but he has been very effective. He is averaging 4.5 yards per rush, and he has put up some big receiving numbers too. This is betts last shot for a pay day and to start. If he continues to perform this season he will be offered that shot somewhere and I don't believe the skins are willing to pony up competitive dollars for him.

Look the front office can't be stupid enough to trade away a 3rd pick without at least planning on signing duckett to an extension. My guess is duckett has not been cooperative in our efforts to resign him and his lack of playing time is a result of that. No matter what he says to the press, he can't be happy with the organization. And now duckett is going to get some reps, if he shows he still has it, someone will pay him next year. We are going to have to really fork it up to keep him, i don't think we will be able to.

[bgforever]

I think we keep both. The only way we don't one of them demands a trade. Of course my position on this has its shake, because we know the crowded backfield syndrome looms, but as you can see, with Portis out, its more healthier than first glance.

[redwolf1218]

I think we keep both. The only way we don't one of them demands a trade. Of course my position on this has its shake, because we know the crowded backfield syndrome looms, but as you can see, with Portis out, its more healthier than first glance.
a trade? they will both be free agents. how do they demand a trade?

[bgforever]

a trade? they will both be free agents. how do they demand a trade?

they don't :lol1: Cause you just corrected me. Thanks.

[redwolf1218]

they don't :lol1: Cause you just corrected me. Thanks.
maybe a sign-and-trade?

[bgforever]

maybe a sign-and-trade?

That would work if it was Betts, not Duckett. Duckett would just walk out. Betts would sense a debt of grattitude and also Snyder can help him a lot here with the numbers on the contract.

[redwolf1218]

That would work if it was Betts, not Duckett. Duckett would just walk out. Betts would sense a debt of grattitude and also Snyder can help him a lot here with the numbers on the contract.
if they are able to sign Duckett, i would hope they would not even entertain trade offers.

[bgforever]

if they are able to sign Duckett, i would hope they would not even entertain trade offers.

yeah it would benefit both Duckett and team if he signed and I also don't believe he'd get traded or seek it, if signed for a longer deal. It wouldn't make sense to.

[3644Skins]

Neither will be here next season. Duckett has to be fuming about his playing time and the offensive play calling so why come back? Betts has gone through this since he came into the NFL and I'm pretty sure he's going to take his services else where. Now Jessie Lumsden gets to come back next year and fight for a roster spot. :)

[redskin_rich]

I voted neither. Both of them want to be starters or at least have a chance to compete for the top spot and that won't happen here. I just hope we get some compensation from the league after they leave.

There is a huge list of free agent RB's in '07 and many are solid 2nd stringers. I think Duckett tops the list and Betts falls in the top 6. If we miss out on the top vets available, we will have to draft one and early, which might mean *wince* trading future pick(s). It is weird but the RB depth is the strongest position on the team this year and may be the weakest next year.

[meloveskinslongtime]

i think we'll resign one of them. i voted betts because he is going to be our feature back since portis is gone. that plus he has a great relationship with the whole team. gibbs and saunders love him.

however i can def. see him asking for a contract that is a little too high for us. because of this i can see him walking.

if that happens i hope we sign duckett

[SkinsASchamps]

Both. Neither is going to get paid but both want to be appreciated and like to have a good spiritual coach like Gibbs. Duckett is a quality character guy and betts is close to that. They will both stay. CP isnt reliable and is never around for a whole season. 3 RBs is crucial and each has a fit here. Backloading of contracts will allow for them to stay and then cut one later down the road...

[hail2skins]

If Duckett isn't resigned, it would be one of the dumbest moves in Redskins history. We would have given up a draft pick for less than one season.

[whitskins]

Betts will be back, no one will sign him as a starter, he's not a great runner, gets tackled too easily, and gets hurt every year (I'm amazed he hasn't gone down yet).

I'm pretty confident that one of these guys will be back, my money is on Betts.

[skinsfan36]

duckett may go back to atlanta
betts resigns or we sign tony fisher or musa smith

[redskin_rich]

duckett may go back to atlanta
betts resigns or we sign tony fisher or musa smith
Duckett ain't going back to Atlanta but I do agree that Fisher or Smith could end up here.

[Slobberknocker]

If Duckett isn't resigned, it would be one of the dumbest moves in Redskins history. We would have given up a draft pick for less than one season.

With Portis out for half a season now it doesn't sound so dumb. Only blows that we have slim to no shot at the playoffs.

EDIT: If we're gonna end up fishing for another running back next season after carrying 4 this season... drive me to drink why don'tcha. Or worse, shoot me now. Or worse still, force me to become a Raider fan.

[Ibleedburgundy]

I think Betts will still be here next year. He's not going to garner attention as a starter. The Jets already have a Ladell in Leon Washington. There are a lot of RB's out there on par with Betts.

I hope Duckett is here next year but the coaches have shown little interest in getting him on the field.

[LATrueRedskin]

If it were up to me, I'd have Duckett backing up Portis, and serving as a short-yardage and change-of-pace back. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Ladell Betts was kept in favor of T.J. But who knows, maybe Ladell will really impress somebody during these last 7 games and some team will pay the price to get him.

[Skins57]

I said Duckett as I can not see Joe wasting away a pick for nothing but it could depend on who is offered what from somene else first. I am looking forward( as I have been all season) to see TJ run the ball over people

[smoak]

Mwuhahahaha!!!

Without accountability you'll never know how I voted!

:D

[RedskinsReaper21]

I think Betts will continue to carry the load this year while Duckett sits. Betts will have a pretty decent year and someone (NYG after Tiki retires) will pay him. We resign Duckett and keep him around as CP's backup. That's what Gibbs is planning to keep all along - he wants Duckett so he will draw attention from him and onto Betts.

[CNYSkinFan]

Mwuhahahaha!!!

Without accountability you'll never know how I voted!

:D
Anarchist!!!!

[joethefan]

If Duckett isn't resigned, it would be one of the dumbest moves in Redskins history. We would have given up a draft pick for less than one season.that's a very good point at least see your 3rd round pick through.....and make it work for you...IMO.

[hail2skins]

With Portis out for half a season now it doesn't sound so dumb. Only blows that we have slim to no shot at the playoffs.

EDIT: If we're gonna end up fishing for another running back next season after carrying 4 this season... drive me to drink why don'tcha. Or worse, shoot me now. Or worse still, force me to become a Raider fan.Portis being hurt doesn't affect it. They gave away a DRAFT PICK for a guy who may only be on this team for a season. That is ridiculous.

[CNYSkinFan]

Portis being hurt doesn't affect it. They gave away a DRAFT PICK for a guy who may only be on this team for a season. That is ridiculous.
Exactly my point. The Portis injury happened mid season The FO panicked at the possibility of Portis being out from game 1 on and pulled the trigger too quickly IMO. Duckett would have been available a week or two later if Portis did not progress, and if not there are plenty of other backs we could have signed as a backup.

[hail2skins]

Exactly my point. The Portis injury happened mid season The FO panicked at the possibility of Portis being out from game 1 on and pulled the trigger too quickly IMO. Duckett would have been available a week or two later if Portis did not progress, and if not there are plenty of other backs we could have signed as a backup.To take that a little further, if you're always praising your running backs and saying you're happy where you are with them, why go after him at all.

[CNYSkinFan]

To take that a little further, if you're always praising your running backs and saying you're happy where you are with them, why go after him at all.
Saunders loves Betts and I think Saunders was willing to go with betts if Portis was not around. Gibbs and the FO probably thought they needed Ducketts and this is part of the schism between Saunders and Gibbs that I think is there. If you loook at Duckett he would be a perfect back for the Gibbs offense but not the Saunders one.

[bergiemoore]

Saunders loves Betts and I think Saunders was willing to go with betts if Portis was not around. Gibbs and the FO probably thought they needed Ducketts and this is part of the schism between Saunders and Gibbs that I think is there. If you loook at Duckett he would be a perfect back for the Gibbs offense but not the Saunders one.

I think you're right about them keeping Betts, but what is this schism between Gibbs and Saunders? Is there any evidence of this, or is this just speculation based on 3rd hand news reports? I'm not trying to be a jerk, I really just haven't seen or heard of any tension between the two, other than what you get when you lose 6 out of 9 games.

[Redskin4Life]

I honestly think both will be around next year...

Betts maybe having his best stats careerwise right now but everyone in the league knows that he's playing for the big contract. And with so many quality RBs in the draft and free agency, I don't think anyone will offer as much as we would for his services.

As far as Duckett, I think he knows this is a system (or used to be) that he would excel in and he won't get the big payday anywhere else. I think the initial thought was to get Duckett and sign him to a short term contract so that they can sign Betts in the offseason to a long one. Then next year resign TJ to a long term deal. But TJD didn't want that.

Now we're stuck with the quandry of who to keep and how do we do it without upsetting the other.... but it's going to happen. No one will pony up as much as we will SIGNING BONUS WISE.

[CNYSkinFan]

I think you're right about them keeping Betts, but what is this schism between Gibbs and Saunders? Is there any evidence of this, or is this just speculation based on 3rd hand news reports? I'm not trying to be a jerk, I really just haven't seen or heard of any tension between the two, other than what you get when you lose 6 out of 9 games.
Totally my opinon. But I do think there is tension from Saunders backhanded swipes at Brunell and pure speculation on my part. it is my own theory and I readily admit I have no real proof to back it up, which is why I present it as my opinion.

[smoak]

Saunders loves Betts and I think Saunders was willing to go with betts if Portis was not around. Gibbs and the FO probably thought they needed Ducketts and this is part of the schism between Saunders and Gibbs that I think is there. If you loook at Duckett he would be a perfect back for the Gibbs offense but not the Saunders one.

How so? What is it about either back that makes them not fit similar offenses? I am not diagreeing, but I get the feel it isn't that Duckett doesn't fit the offense, but rather that he doesn't fit the way Saunders calls plays. Just a gut feeling, but I think both backs should intellectually fit both systems and yet.... It doesn't feel that way does it?

[CNYSkinFan]

How so? What is it about either back that makes them not fit similar offenses? I am not diagreeing, but I get the feel it isn't that Duckett doesn't fit the offense, but rather that he doesn't fit the way Saunders calls plays. Just a gut feeling, but I think both backs should intellectually fit both systems and yet.... It doesn't feel that way does it?
Ducketts IMO is a north south between the tackles runner who excels when he gets to the second level. Running behind a fullback pounding the ball, that is waht Ducketts does best. Betts, although more nouth south then Portis at times, does not have the frame to move piles and is a better when sent off tackle or on a sweep or counter type of play. Betts is also a better receiver iMO.

[Redskin4Life]

Ducketts IMO is a north south between the tackles runner who excels when he gets to the second level. Running behind a fullback pounding the ball, that is waht Ducketts does best. Betts, although more nouth south then Portis at times, does not have the frame to move piles and is a better when sent off tackle or on a sweep or counter type of play. Betts is also a better receiver iMO.
What about Larry Johnson though? Isn't he a N-S guy that pounds the ball and runs well inbetween the tackles? He's a Saunders guy and excelled in that role.

I think there might be some validity to the rumor that Duckett's not getting the blocking schemes and therefore isn't making the cut on gameday.

With Campbell in, TJD will be used as he was intented... running the ball and not really blocking.

[BIGSEF3]

How is Duckett leading this poll? have people lost their minds?

[hail2skins]

How is Duckett leading this poll? have people lost their minds?you wanna justify your question and not just leave it at that.

[smoak]

What about Larry Johnson though? Isn't he a N-S guy that pounds the ball and runs well inbetween the tackles? He's a Saunders guy and excelled in that role.

I think there might be some validity to the rumor that Duckett's not getting the blocking schemes and therefore isn't making the cut on gameday.

With Campbell in, TJD will be used as he was intented... running the ball and not really blocking.

That is more my question. I understand the strength and differences between the two players, but I really don't see either as a bad fit for each offense if they are used properly.

[Redskinmayhem]

I say Duckett. This year is really Betts' try out for the rest of the league. He's really a very good back and teams are seeing the benefit of having 2 good backs in the backfield. Betts is basically a less gifted version of Portis. Both are the same type of player. That's why I think Duckett will stick around - he's the antithesis of Portis. Plus, we've got Rock who is also a Portis/Betts type.

[warpaint]

ok we drafted betts in the second round, we gave up a third round pick for cj
what would we get compensation type of picks if both became free agents ?

[rusty73]

If there Free agents I don't believe we get squat:banghead:

[Redskinmayhem]

If there Free agents I don't believe we get squat:banghead:
If they're RFA's we get something....

[BandWagon]

I'm kinda of the opinion that Betts is the odd man out here. I know Gibbs is fiercely loyal, but Duckett is a better back and if we can keep him, I don't see Betts being here. Just a gut feeling...

[BigFanRob]

We should keep TJ,with Portis back healthy next season the TEAM could have
another Byner / Riggs situation

REDSKINS RULE BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shally]

ok we drafted betts in the second round, we gave up a third round pick for cj
what would we get compensation type of picks if both became free agents ?

zip... nada... nothing...they are UFA's....

not unless we sign them and then trade them

[shally]

I'm kinda of the opinion that Betts is the odd man out here. I know Gibbs is fiercely loyal, but Duckett is a better back and if we can keep him, I don't see Betts being here. Just a gut feeling...

i think in the end we lose both... betts will want starters money and saunders would like to keep him.... but he will walk

as for TJ, unless he lights it up the rest of the year, i think he was viewed as insurance only and they will let him walk..too bad if that happens.. if i get to choose we keep duckett and sign him before the end of the season. but, i doubt that will happen

we will be inthe market for another back in the off season

[Redskinmayhem]

i think in the end we lose both... betts will want starters money and saunders would like to keep him....

SO you think it's Saunders that's enamored with Betts? He does seem to get alot of touches.....almost more than Portis at times.

[BIGSEF3]

you wanna justify your question and not just leave it at that.

Well I figured it was obvious by the fact that he hasn't played for us at all signifigantly up to this point. He's done NOTHING for us. If the coaching staff was seriously considering him as a long-term option, they would have been playing him and not Betts up to this point. Betts has been a solid contributor here for YEARS and is having a phenomenal year with his limited playing time. Unless Duckett WANTS to play here and Betts DOESNT for some reason, we're keeping Betts. (Or we could lose both of them).

[shally]

SO you think it's Saunders that's enamored with Betts? He does seem to get alot of touches.....almost more than Portis at times.

saunders has been effusive inhis praise of betts from camp on... i would guess he is betts' biggest fan on the coaching staff.

[shally]

Well I figured it was obvious by the fact that he hasn't played for us at all signifigantly up to this point. He's done NOTHING for us. If the coaching staff was seriously considering him as a long-term option, they would have been playing him and not Betts up to this point. Betts has been a solid contributor here for YEARS and is having a phenomenal year with his limited playing time. Unless Duckett WANTS to play here and Betts DOESNT for some reason, we're keeping Betts. (Or we could lose both of them).

i would not classify betts' contributions as solid... he has been injured much of the time, and has done little to suggest that he could be counted on as a starting back.
i think saunders has utilized him better than any OC up to this point-- but betts has been onthe field instead of in the trainers room for once this season.

i would consider him a usefull change of pace back.. like a lesser version of kevin faulk of the pats.. but anyone who expects him to be the next version of chester taylor or lamont jordan is gonna pay a lot of money and end up disappointed.

duckett, onthe other hand, IMHO, has the qualities needed to make him a primary back on the right team.. i would try to keep him over betts in a heartbeat.. but the way the front office is dragging their feet, i think it is going to end up badly for the skins

[Redskin4Life]

We should keep TJ,with Portis back healthy next season the TEAM could have
another Byner / Riggs situation

REDSKINS RULE BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was thinking more of a Brandon Jacobs/Tiki Barber (BJ is a good compliment bruiser back but Tiki can do it all) with TJD being like Jacobs and Tiki being a Portis. Or a Priest Holmes and Larry Johnson combo.

[Redskin4Life]

zip... nada... nothing...they are UFA's....

not unless we sign them and then trade them
Shally, what about in the form of compensatory picks? I think if we lost both we would get something in return as long as we don't pick up anyone that offseason in FA...

[LATrueRedskin]

Well I figured it was obvious by the fact that he hasn't played for us at all signifigantly up to this point. He's done NOTHING for us. If the coaching staff was seriously considering him as a long-term option, they would have been playing him and not Betts up to this point. Betts has been a solid contributor here for YEARS and is having a phenomenal year with his limited playing time. Unless Duckett WANTS to play here and Betts DOESNT for some reason, we're keeping Betts. (Or we could lose both of them).

I agree. I'm sure we'll re-sign Betts, unless we get in a bidding war with another team. The good thing is we hold the cards here in this situation. If we can't sign one, sign the other.

[Redskin4Life]

That is more my question. I understand the strength and differences between the two players, but I really don't see either as a bad fit for each offense if they are used properly.
I'm with you on this one, Smoak....

Just to clarify... CNY, so are you saying that Duckett's more Gibbs than Saunders style of back... not necessarily unusable in a Saunders system, right? You do think Al can use Duckett in his offense or do you think Betts is the better compliment to Portis in Saunders' eyes?

[Redskin4Life]

I brought this up in the "FA" thread but is it possible that Duckett WON'T void the last year of his contract and stay with us instead for a year? Possibly to increase his status with other teams or get a better deal with us at the end of training camp?

[CNYSkinFan]

I'm with you on this one, Smoak....

Just to clarify... CNY, so are you saying that Duckett's more Gibbs than Saunders style of back... not necessarily unusable in a Saunders system, right? You do think Al can use Duckett in his offense or do you think Betts is the better compliment to Portis in Saunders' eyes?
I think Betts is a better fit for a Saunders offense but Ducketts is definitely usable.....and underused at that, even when Portis was around. It is purely my opinion but I don't think Saunders likes Duckett's bruising style and so does not scheme for him preferring Betts & Portis. Now he will have to adjust.

[Redskin4Life]

I think Betts is a better fit for a Saunders offense but Ducketts is definitely usable.....and underused at that, even when Portis was around. It is purely my opinion but I don't think Saunders likes Duckett's bruising style and so does not scheme for him preferring Betts & Portis. Now he will have to adjust.
I agree with all of that except the dislike of a bruiser by Saunders especially when he had LJ in a bruiser role last year. I read in article recently that someone on the staff eluded to the idea that TJ's not understanding the blocking schemes well enough to get into the games. Maybe this is the reason he's in Al's Doghouse...

[LATrueRedskin]

I brought this up in the "FA" thread but is it possible that Duckett WON'T void the last year of his contract and stay with us instead for a year? Possibly to increase his status with other teams or get a better deal with us at the end of training camp?

I don't think so. I think T.J. wants to play, and assuming we keep Betts, he'll want to get out of here. But if other teams take a run at Ladell this offseason, I think it's a possibility.

I must say T.J. has been nothing but a class act during the entire time he's been here. I know he's probably itching to play, but he's kept his mouth in-check and has said all the right things while he's been here.

[CNYSkinFan]

I agree with all of that except the dislike of a bruiser by Saunders especially when he had LJ in a bruiser role last year. I read in article recently that someone on the staff eluded to the idea that TJ's not understanding the blocking schemes well enough to get into the games. Maybe this is the reason he's in Al's Doghouse...
LJ has way more talent then Ducketts obviously and was in the doghouse for awhile if I remember in KC as well.

[Meatsnack]

I think they will both walk unless Duckett gets a chance to really shine late here. betts will want guarantees that he is The Man somwhere which he isn't going to get here. Duckett, likewise, believes he can start and that will figure heavily in where he signs.

[Redskin4Life]

I have to disagree with you on Duckett being more talented than LJ. We really don't know what we've got in TJ only cause he came here late in the offseason in this new system. He didn't fit in the offense they were running in ATL and was the change of pace back there. I think we'll see the real TJ now...

But you're right, LJ was in Saunders doghouse for a couple of years... I remember the "diaper" comment like it was yesterday.

[Redskin4Life]

I don't think so. I think T.J. wants to play, and assuming we keep Betts, he'll want to get out of here. But if other teams take a run at Ladell this offseason, I think it's a possibility.

I must say T.J. has been nothing but a class act during the entire time he's been here. I know he's probably itching to play, but he's kept his mouth in-check and has said all the right things while he's been here.
It's true he wants to play but I'm not sure if he wants to be the feature back or is willing to be a two-headed monster here with Portis. I think as long as he gets paid he won't care. That's why I think he's going to stay.

For that matter, I think Betts will too cause he won't get any consideration out there for that much more moneywise than us..... I think Cartwright is the one that might be on the "outs". Betts will take over for him as the 3rd back/special teams stud..

[LATrueRedskin]

It's true he wants to play but I'm not sure if he wants to be the feature back or is willing to be a two-headed monster here with Portis. I think as long as he gets paid he won't care. That's why I think he's going to stay.

For that matter, I think Betts will too cause he won't get any consideration out there for that much more moneywise than us..... I think Cartwright is the one that might be on the "outs". Betts will take over for him as the 3rd back/special teams stud..

It depends on what Ladell does with these 6-7 games left in the season. If he comes out like gangbusters, you better believe he'll get some offers from teams lacking in the run department (Cleveland, Oakland, NY Jets, etc.). I don't see us signing both running backs to substantial contracts this offseason. It wouldn't be beneficial for us.

[shally]

It depends on what Ladell does with these 6-7 games left in the season. If he comes out like gangbusters, you better believe he'll get some offers from teams lacking in the run department (Cleveland, Oakland, NY Jets, etc.). I don't see us signing both running backs to substantial contracts this offseason. It wouldn't be beneficial for us.

let someone else sign betts to a mega deal.. he is a complimentary back.. nothing more..

[BIGSEF3]

let someone else sign betts to a mega deal.. he is a complimentary back.. nothing more..

Yes, and that is why we keep Betts. We dont need another starting caliber back like Duckett. We need a complimentary back. Duckett is going to want to start somewhere. that wont happen here.

[shally]

Yes, and that is why we keep Betts. We dont need another starting caliber back like Duckett. We need a complimentary back. Duckett is going to want to start somewhere. that wont happen here.

and you think betts won't want to start somewhere ?

i think TJ looks at portis and says to himself, he could end up starting next year if portis starts to wear down..

both should command about the same attention onthe market, i think..

much rather have TJ because he can move a pile.. betts cannot. TJ is a good receiver also, we have just not given him the chance

[redwolf1218]

and you think betts won't want to start somewhere ?

i think TJ looks at portis and says to himself, he could end up starting next year if portis starts to wear down..

both should command about the same attention onthe market, i think..

much rather have TJ because he can move a pile.. betts cannot. TJ is a good receiver also, we have just not given him the chance
i dont think Betts is capable of starting anywhere.

you are right about Portis. the fact that he is hurt now should weigh on Duckett's decision. anyone can get hurt, and everyone is only one play away from starting.

if at all possible, they should re-sign both Duckett and Betts for continuity, or get someone better in free agency or the draft. running back is usually a good position to draft in the middle rounds, we just have not done well at it by taking guys like Nemo and White. the fact that they drafted those guys tells me they want a bruiser, and Duckett fits the bill. Betts does not.

either that or call Lumsden. :)

[skinsfan36]

where is betts going to go as a number one?
jets-leon washington has emerged(anyone here about his topps card where hes trying to make an e wiith his arms crossed looks like 2 middle fingers.
houston-will draft peterson
tennesee-? will draft a rookie
green bay-? will draft a rookie
micheal turner will be the #1 free agent back
betts would get his most carries here

[shally]

i dont think Betts is capable of starting anywhere.

you are right about Portis. the fact that he is hurt now should way on Duckett's decision. anyone can get hurt, and everyone is only one play away from starting.

if at all possible, they should re-sign both Duckett and Betts for continuity, or get someone better in free agency or the draft. running back is usually a good position to draft in the middle rounds, we just have not done well at it by taking guys like Nemo and White. the fact that they drafted those guys tells me they want a bruiser, and Duckett fits the bill. Betts does not.

either that or call Lumsden. :)

you and i agree about betts.. but HE thinks he could/should start somewhere and that is going to drive the negotiations.. watch..

we have had some success with mid range selections of backs inthe past.
ervins, timmie smith, jamie morris.. not world beaters, but decent complimentary backs.. we just do not have many picks to use on that type of luxury this offseason. which makes me think we sign a free agent

nemo and white are still lurking around and will get another look next preseason, i think.. lumsden ?? not.. also we have ? carter coming back from a knee

[RedHokieSkin]

I think Betts can be a starter elsewhere. From what I've seen so far, he's not going to be a top back in the league, but he's certainly better than some of the guys that are starting right now. Maybe he can turn some heads now with this opportunity and show us some things he hasn't yet.

We'll hang on to Duckett as the two in the one-two punch of CP & TJ, much like he was utilized in Atlanta with Dunn.

[redwolf1218]

you and i agree about betts.. but HE thinks he could/should start somewhere and that is going to drive the negotiations.. watch..

we have had some success with mid range selections of backs inthe past.
ervins, timmie smith, jamie morris.. not world beaters, but decent complimentary backs.. we just do not have many picks to use on that type of luxury this offseason. which makes me think we sign a free agent

nemo and white are still lurking around and will get another look next preseason, i think.. lumsden ?? not.. also we have ? carter coming back from a knee
they've tried Nemo, White, Carter, Lumsden, and that kid D. Green liked. they've all either been hurt (White, Carter, Lumsden), or fumbled (Nemo, D. Green's kid), or made stupid mistakes (Nemo dropped that TD pass from Collins). Rock seems to get a free pass on the fumbles and mistakes because he's been here already and he's a "great guy". if he gets playing time now that Portis is hurt, Duckett will probably leave for sure, and i wouldnt blame him one bit.

[shally]

where is betts going to go as a number one?
jets-leon washington has emerged(anyone here about his topps card where hes trying to make an e wiith his arms crossed looks like 2 middle fingers.
houston-will draft peterson
tennesee-? will draft a rookie
green bay-? will draft a rookie
micheal turner will be the #1 free agent back
betts would get his most carries here


oakland traded for jordan and minny traded for taylor.. that is a situation that betts will be looking for. we have half a season for things to develop

[shally]

they've tried Nemo, White, Carter, Lumsden, and that kid D. Green liked. they've all either been hurt (White, Carter, Lumsden), or fumbled (Nemo, D. Green's kid), or made stupid mistakes (Nemo dropped that TD pass from Collins). Rock seems to get a free pass on the fumbles and mistakes because he's been here already and he's a "great guy". if he gets playing time now that Portis is hurt, Duckett will probably leave for sure, and i wouldnt blame him one bit.

yup.. rock is a special teamer and nothing more.. like thrash he is likely to have a spot as long as gibbs coaches.. but he should not be confused with a starter or even a reliable reserve..

i would try and get duckett signed but i do not think it will happen

[skinfan43]

NOTE:Duckett's free agent year with us is 2008, check the link:

http://www.skinsfans.com/pcinoz/Contracts%20Chart.htm

The final year is voidable, but it appears we'll still have him under contract for next season. The Skins seem to have made sure to get at least a longer look at TJ (a full offseason and camp with the team would be a good start, eh?) for that 3rd round pick they gave up.

[redskin_rich]

NOTE:Duckett's free agent year with us is 2008, check the link:

http://www.skinsfans.com/pcinoz/Contracts%20Chart.htm

The final year is voidable, but it appears we'll still have him under contract for next season. The Skins seem to have made sure to get at least a longer look at TJ (a full offseason and camp with the team would be a good start, eh?) for that 3rd round pick they gave up.
You're not reading it right, he would be a FA in '08 but the final year is '07 which is voidable.

[skinfan43]

You're not reading it right, he would be a FA in '08 but the final year is '07 which is voidable.
Crap.
Thanks Rich, good thing I'm not the capologist, eh?;)

[Slobberknocker]

Crap.
Thanks Rich, good thing I'm not the capologist, eh?;)

Crapologist? :rolleyes:

[dabro]

I chose Duckett, but I've always been a Betts supporter. He runs like a smaller Stephen Davis. I just figure that since they gave up a 3rd, and they don't really have another effective big back, TJ will be the guy. OTH, they may sign both! I'm hoping Duck gets a lot more playing time now that CP is out, and the staff and fans can really get a chance to evaluate him.

[smoak]

yup.. rock is a special teamer and nothing more.. like thrash he is likely to have a spot as long as gibbs coaches.. but he should not be confused with a starter or even a reliable reserve..

i would try and get duckett signed but i do not think it will happen

I guess you missed our win over dallass. You should try and buy it on DVD. It was a great game!

[CNYSkinFan]

i dont think Betts is capable of starting anywhere.

you are right about Portis. the fact that he is hurt now should weigh on Duckett's decision. anyone can get hurt, and everyone is only one play away from starting.

if at all possible, they should re-sign both Duckett and Betts for continuity, or get someone better in free agency or the draft. running back is usually a good position to draft in the middle rounds, we just have not done well at it by taking guys like Nemo and White. the fact that they drafted those guys tells me they want a bruiser, and Duckett fits the bill. Betts does not.

either that or call Lumsden. :)

AHHHHH my eyes!!! My eyes!!!!

[redwolf1218]

AHHHHH my eyes!!! My eyes!!!!
sorry i just had to do it.

i have to believe that there is a plan in place regarding Duckett and Betts, particularly Duckett. if not, then i cant fathom the wasted draft pick.

also if they had any confidence in Betts and Rock they probably would not have grabbed Duckett.

it reminds me of Ramsey in a way. Gibbs obviously had no confidence in him so he got Brunell and drafted Campbell. despite what he said about Ramsey (all favorable), he's gone. i would think Betts will also be gone, but it would great to keep him and Duckett. they spent the preseason praising Betts, but grabbed Duckett as soon as Portis busted his shoulder.

[skinfan43]

Crapologist? :rolleyes:
That's a far more accurate title, I am often full of it.:lol1:

[skinfan43]

AHHHHH my eyes!!! My eyes!!!!
You can never get away from Canadian Jesus...

[shally]

sorry i just had to do it.

i have to believe that there is a plan in place regarding Duckett and Betts, particularly Duckett. if not, then i cant fathom the wasted draft pick.

also if they had any confidence in Betts and Rock they probably would not have grabbed Duckett.

it reminds me of Ramsey in a way. Gibbs obviously had no confidence in him so he got Brunell and drafted Campbell. despite what he said about Ramsey (all favorable), he's gone. i would think Betts will also be gone, but it would great to keep him and Duckett. they spent the preseason praising Betts, but grabbed Duckett as soon as Portis busted his shoulder.

that is a good comparison... i think that gibbs has praised betts when he was given opportunity to play, but it is really saunders who likes him...
it would not be surprised if TJ was the one they tried to hold onto after the season.. but i still feel both will end up gone after this year

[bgforever]

AHHHHH my eyes!!! My eyes!!!!

I know, I know!!! :lol1:

[skins111111]

interesting poll.....I woulda thought that Betts would be the most popular answer, he has a ton of talent and Gibbs loves him.....Duckett is not proven in Washington and is on the last year of his contract.
I voted both just because Gibbs likes debth at the RB position and haveing CP and Betts would not be suppriseing....I was just thinking that TJ was gonna be huge the last half of the season....we would have our own Thunder & Lightning dou and on the goal line TJ running behind Sellers would be pretty much unstoppable, if this turns out to be true I can't see us not signing him

[skins111111]

as long as Gibbs is here we will always have quality debth at RB......looks like its paying off bigtime this year..........can't wait to see how TJ does in this system.......the majority of the teams now run 2 backs for the whole game and feature RBs are getting to be a thing of the past......makes it rough in FF

[shally]

as long as Gibbs is here we will always have quality debth at RB......looks like its paying off bigtime this year..........can't wait to see how TJ does in this system.......the majority of the teams now run 2 backs for the whole game and feature RBs are getting to be a thing of the past......makes it rough in FF

plus, TJ has the size and ability to pound the ball that gibbs has always loved

[Carmelo]

I fully say TJ. I expect big, big things from him. I know we've seen Betts and he's been here and all, but I really, really expect TJ to come out and solidify himself as a sure bet for this team. I am hoping that he shows himself to be a premiere back... we'll see.

[shally]

I fully say TJ. I expect big, big things from him. I know we've seen Betts and he's been here and all, but I really, really expect TJ to come out and solidify himself as a sure bet for this team. I am hoping that he shows himself to be a premiere back... we'll see.

you and me both.. i hope he shows his worth and then they make a push to sign him in the next couple of weeks..

[Carmelo]

you and me both.. i hope he shows his worth and then they make a push to sign him in the next couple of weeks..
Tomorrow is a big day for our whole offense. Lots of people need to make a statement tomorrow. I think Jason has it easier because it's not so horrible if he has a crap game.

[shally]

Tomorrow is a big day for our whole offense. Lots of people need to make a statement tomorrow. I think Jason has it easier because it's not so horrible if he has a crap game.

true.. but all TJ has to do is follow his blockers or run over people...

[skins111111]

true.. but all TJ has to do is follow his blockers or run over people...

yep and what a blocker he has in the Caveman

[skins111111]

Sellers and Duckett = a whole lotta pain

[Skins7ny]

This is a very tough question. I voted neither because I think that Duckett has got to be itching to get out of here, he must be thinking that the coaching staff is costing him his payday on the FA market. He is not going to sign here at a discount to be CP's backup. It will be a buyer's market for RBs this off-season, as it has been for the last several years. I don't think Ladell will get starter's money, but the next several weeks will answer this question for us. Clinton being on IR changes everything. Ladell can make himself a lot of money the next 7 weeks by staying healthy and proving that he can be a 1,000+ yard back. I think he is a notch below that, but we are about to find out. The next 7 weeks also gives TJD a chance to re-establish his market value. I think the chances are about even that one of them or none of them come back. I think the only thing that is unlikely is them both returning.

[shally]

This is a very tough question. I voted neither because I think that Duckett has got to be itching to get out of here, he must be thinking that the coaching staff is costing him his payday on the FA market. He is not going to sign here at a discount to be CP's backup. It will be a buyer's market for RBs this off-season, as it has been for the last several years. I don't think Ladell will get starter's money, but the next several weeks will answer this question for us. Clinton being on IR changes everything. Ladell can make himself a lot of money the next 7 weeks by staying healthy and proving that he can be a 1,000+ yard back. I think he is a notch below that, but we are about to find out. The next 7 weeks also gives TJD a chance to re-establish his market value. I think the chances are about even that one of them or none of them come back. I think the only thing that is unlikely is them both returning.

agreed if they hit the open market..

[OCSKINSFAN]

This is a very tough question. I voted neither because I think that Duckett has got to be itching to get out of here, he must be thinking that the coaching staff is costing him his payday on the FA market. He is not going to sign here at a discount to be CP's backup. It will be a buyer's market for RBs this off-season, as it has been for the last several years. I don't think Ladell will get starter's money, but the next several weeks will answer this question for us. Clinton being on IR changes everything. Ladell can make himself a lot of money the next 7 weeks by staying healthy and proving that he can be a 1,000+ yard back. I think he is a notch below that, but we are about to find out. The next 7 weeks also gives TJD a chance to re-establish his market value. I think the chances are about even that one of them or none of them come back. I think the only thing that is unlikely is them both returning.

Not a very good scenario if neither returns - we lose both and get nothing in return. Our remaining backup - Rock, who while a decent kick returner and special teamer, is no better than a 3rd string running back.

[helimech24]

As much as I would hate to say it, I think Betts will be on the team. Gibbs and Company love this guy, and they haven't used Duckett all year.

[helimech24]

This is a very tough question. I voted neither because I think that Duckett has got to be itching to get out of here, he must be thinking that the coaching staff is costing him his payday on the FA market. He is not going to sign here at a discount to be CP's backup. It will be a buyer's market for RBs this off-season, as it has been for the last several years. I don't think Ladell will get starter's money, but the next several weeks will answer this question for us. Clinton being on IR changes everything. Ladell can make himself a lot of money the next 7 weeks by staying healthy and proving that he can be a 1,000+ yard back. I think he is a notch below that, but we are about to find out. The next 7 weeks also gives TJD a chance to re-establish his market value. I think the chances are about even that one of them or none of them come back. I think the only thing that is unlikely is them both returning.I don't think it will be a big buyers market for RBs this year with all the talent that is coming out of college and the fact that there are only a few teams that need running backs, at least starting running backs.

[shally]

I don't think it will be a big buyers market for RBs this year with all the talent that is coming out of college and the fact that there are only a few teams that need running backs, at least starting running backs.

jordan was lost to oakland.. they could be in the market this offseason

[LATrueRedskin]

BTW, Duckett is averaging 5.7 ypc., but of course we don't like to rush him, that would only lead to good things.

[shally]

BTW, Duckett is averaging 5.7 ypc., but of course we don't like to rush him, that would only lead to good things.

a total head scratcher.. but he was in much of the 4th quarter at least..

[bergiemoore]

a total head scratcher.. but he was in much of the 4th quarter at least..

Yeah, right up until Betts coughed it up...

I think that Duckett is a better back than Betts on 1st and 2nd down. He provides the ability to jam it between the tackles, and always seems to fall forward for at least 2 yards. Betts is a better pass receiver out of the back-field, and is a decent blocker.

I hope we keep TJ.

[Skins7ny]

I don't think it will be a big buyers market for RBs this year with all the talent that is coming out of college and the fact that there are only a few teams that need running backs, at least starting running backs.

When I said "buyer's market", I meant that the buyers (teams) are going to be able to get good bargains because there will be a glut of quality backs on the free agent market. When there are only one or two guys available and a bunch of teams that are in the market for RBs,, then it is a sellers market. Unless I am mixing up the terms, which is always possible...:)

[CowboyKilla]

Duckett looks more valuable in his very limited play. (limited).
We know betts' capabilities already. Duckett's audition should come real soon.
I expect it to be him who we resign.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

If we have decided to keep one of the two, it's gonna be tough to make a decision when one gets 5 carries and the other gets 7. But based on those few carries, no contest: TJ by a mile.

[Patrick]

Very good question. Betts will test the market unless he's offer the Skins standard contract of 12 million per season for the next five years.
Duckett, should just smile at the Skins and say, "No Thanks, I want to go play for a winner". ................ (I don't think I'd be that nice if I were TJ. )

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Very good question. Betts will test the market unless he's offer the Skins standard contract of 12 million per season for the next five years.
Duckett, should just smile at the Skins and say, "No Thanks, I want to go play for a winner". ................ (I don't think I'd be that nice if I were TJ. )
Neither would I. Actually that's an interesting point. I think TJ's attitude has been EXTREMELY positive so far, even in really bizarre circumstances. In all his post-game interviews, he has never said anything out of place. And from what he has shown on the field, mostly in past years since we obviously often forget he is on our team, I think it's really a no contest as to which of the two is a better RB.

[shally]

Yeah, right up until Betts coughed it up...

I think that Duckett is a better back than Betts on 1st and 2nd down. He provides the ability to jam it between the tackles, and always seems to fall forward for at least 2 yards. Betts is a better pass receiver out of the back-field, and is a decent blocker.

I hope we keep TJ.

i think TJ is abatter back altogether.. TJ was a first rounder and betts was a reach to be taken inthe second.. not that means everything, but i would take TJ in a heartbeat

[santanadasavior]

i think TJ is abatter back altogether.. TJ was a first rounder and betts was a reach to be taken inthe second.. not that means everything, but i would take TJ in a heartbeat

As would I, I expect him to become a full fledged starter by New Orleans. He has played his whole career in a dome and we will have two straight there. I think it only makes sense. Also, he is starting to be in the game more. One thing that I really like is the new short yardage game. It just seemed to work this week where it had not worked the whole season.

[Dept_of_Defense]

Honestly what are the chances that we resign Duckett? Is he really going to want to sign here? I think that Betts is gone after this season, but I don't want to risk losing both of them.

We all know Betts' capabilities and we have seen what Duckett can do. I think that TJ is a huge change of pace from CP and our offense would benefit immensly from him. Can you imagine defenses chasing CP around all game, and then on 3rd downs we just pound Duckett right @ them? That would be so tough on a defense, where when we put Betts in, it's not that different other than maybe he's a little bit of a better receiver and he's not as shifty. Going from tackling a 210 lb. back to a 260 lb back is a huge difference and it's only going to benefit us.

[santanadasavior]

Honestly what are the chances that we resign Duckett? Is he really going to want to sign here? I think that Betts is gone after this season, but I don't want to risk losing both of them.

We all know Betts' capabilities and we have seen what Duckett can do. I think that TJ is a huge change of pace from CP and our offense would benefit immensly from him. Can you imagine defenses chasing CP around all game, and then on 3rd downs we just pound Duckett right @ them? That would be so tough on a defense, where when we put Betts in, it's not that different other than maybe he's a little bit of a better receiver and he's not as shifty. Going from tackling a 210 lb. back to a 260 lb back is a huge difference and it's only going to benefit us.

Thats what I think. Teams will have to account for two different types of running instead of one. I hope the coaches realize that and start playing him more.

[shally]

As would I, I expect him to become a full fledged starter by New Orleans. He has played his whole career in a dome and we will have two straight there. I think it only makes sense. Also, he is starting to be in the game more. One thing that I really like is the new short yardage game. It just seemed to work this week where it had not worked the whole season.

plus betts put the ball on the ground... gibbs absolutely hates that...

[shally]

Honestly what are the chances that we resign Duckett? Is he really going to want to sign here? I think that Betts is gone after this season, but I don't want to risk losing both of them.

We all know Betts' capabilities and we have seen what Duckett can do. I think that TJ is a huge change of pace from CP and our offense would benefit immensly from him. Can you imagine defenses chasing CP around all game, and then on 3rd downs we just pound Duckett right @ them? That would be so tough on a defense, where when we put Betts in, it's not that different other than maybe he's a little bit of a better receiver and he's not as shifty. Going from tackling a 210 lb. back to a 260 lb back is a huge difference and it's only going to benefit us.

plus TJ can really pound it up the gut.. neither betts nor CP has the strength to do that consistently.. only sellers is a strong and TJ is faster..

it is a no brainer...

[redwolf1218]

plus betts put the ball on the ground... gibbs absolutely hates that...
but he gives a pass to the incumbents like Rock and now i'm sure Betts will get a pass as well. if a new guy fumbles he's gone.

[shally]

but he gives a pass to the incumbents like Rock and now i'm sure Betts will get a pass as well. if a new guy fumbles he's gone.

rock is no longer a back.. he is a special teamer.

betts is AS's favorite, not gibbs.. i think the door is really open for TJ.. betts had 10 yards total in the first half and then fumbled inthe second to give tampa the momentum.. unless TJ starts missing blocks or fumbling the ball i think he gets more chances as the season winds down..

[Skinz4lyfe]

Duckett does not fit our offense. Betts is a better fit. But knowing how successful we've been in re-signing our own free agents I'd be surprised if we re-sign either of them. I'd prefer Betts back though. In a year where we could sorely use some young talent (via the draft) Duckett turns out to net another wasted draft pick. :banghead:

[shally]

Duckett does not fit our offense. Betts is a better fit. But knowing how successful we've been in re-signing our own free agents I'd be surprised if we re-sign either of them. I'd prefer Betts back though. In a year where we could sorely use some young talent (via the draft) Duckett turns out to net another wasted draft pick. :banghead:

respectfully i disagree. what cannot TJ do ? he runs with power. he is a decent receiver out of the back field. he can convert the short yardage situation.

the only negative has been his inability to block as well as they would like. with his size he will get it eventually.

i think betts' main skill is as a receiver.. i would not want him as a primary carrier. and he is simply not strong enough in short yardage situations..

[redwolf1218]

Duckett does not fit our offense. Betts is a better fit. But knowing how successful we've been in re-signing our own free agents I'd be surprised if we re-sign either of them. I'd prefer Betts back though. In a year where we could sorely use some young talent (via the draft) Duckett turns out to net another wasted draft pick. :banghead:
Betts got 7 carries for 18 yard in his big start. Duckett got 5 carries for 26 yards as a reserve. how is Betts a better fit?

Duckett has averaged 5.5 yards per carry this year.

plus Betts fumbled again.

[Skinz4lyfe]

Last year's offense Duckett might be a better fit. However, we have gone away from smashmouth football. We're running more sweeps and off-tackle running plays this year. That is not Duckett's specialty. In Saunders offense, we need a more versatile backup and Duckett is not that guy. I'm not saying Betts is a starter but he's a better backup in our current offense (Saunder's offense) than Duckett.

[redwolf1218]

Last year's offense Duckett might be a better fit. However, we have gone away from smashmouth football. We're running more sweeps and off-tackle running plays this year. That is not Duckett's specialty. In Saunders offense, we need a more versatile backup and Duckett is not that guy. I'm not saying Betts is a starter but he's a better backup in our current offense (Saunder's offense) than Duckett.
you bring up a good point about Duckett, but the plays we are running now are not helping the team. maybe Duckett would be better.

[Skinz4lyfe]

you bring up a good point about Duckett, but the plays we are running now are not helping the team. maybe Duckett would be better.

You are absolutely correct!! I believe Saunders needs to cator our offense more to the talent that we have. IMO, he hasn't done that yet, thus our inconsistencies in the running game.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I don't know who will be on our team next year (maybe neither) but I honestly have no idea why anybody would choose to keep Betts.
Here is a quick career stat comparison:
G GS ATT YDS AVG LNG TD 20+
Betts: 58 5 410 1655 4.0 27 6 9

Duckett: 59 13 564 2241 4.0 55 31 13

Plus you have 87 catches for 786 yads for Betts and 30 catches for 230 yads for Duckett, which is abundantly evened out by Betts's tendency to get injured and his higher tendency to fumble the ball. Duckett has only one more fumble in 100 more touches.
The best thing to do, but I don't think it's economically possible, would be to keep them both. Duckett is a great alternative to Portis, and Betts could be very useful in 3rd down situations coming out of the backfield, and returning kicks. Right now the only reason to keep Rock is because of his ST play in coverage. I'm not sure that is enough.

Edit: one more thing..what kind of back is Betts exactly? A short yardage back? I don't think so, not with 6 career TDs in his whole career...a speed back? I don't think so, not with a 4.0 yard average and a long of just 27 yards...a back with great vision? Uhm..I don't think so...
So besides tha pass-catching, what exactly is Betts better than Duckett at?

[BSMKF]

Man I would love to see a Portis and Duckett combo next year.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Man I would love to see a Portis and Duckett combo next year.
I would have loved to see it this year as well.

[shally]

I would have loved to see it this year as well.


i will settle for seeing what TJ can do this year.. is he ron dayne ? or is he mike alstott?

[skinsfan36]

u dont think that teams will watch his fumbling tapes this offseason before making him a feature back? i think so.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

u dont think that teams will watch his fumbling tapes this offseason before making him a feature back? i think so.
Absolutely. I have no idea what any team might see in him that warrants making him their starter.

[skinsfan36]

Absolutely. I have no idea what any team might see in him that warrants making him their starter.

especially with lynch,peterson coming out early and garrett wolfe(very underrated) all better options. and micheal turner even.

i mean the jets like washington so that leaves like three teams without feature backs:green bay,cleveland,tennessee so betts best bet may be to stay here as a back up but if he keeps fumbling like rock he can go wherever