Coaching wise ...

[PennSkinsFan]

Your anger is centered at which one?

[Spence]

Gibbs hired these guys and he's responsible for the results.

[Skins-R-Us]

Coach Gibbs has officially lost it (with regards to the new NFL) and I don't know if it can ever be found again...

[joethefan]

It was finally good to hear his press conference go a little different. He seemed like he took shots at Saunders. There was no way Jason should have been throwing 34 times in his first start. This team doesn't have a philosphy. And that is what makes everything so frustrating.....

it all starts and ends with him....IMO..he made the bed now he's slleping in it...he should have kept everything the way it was last year...got El and Lloyd and kept that secondary coach and we would have been ok....IMO

[wewantdallas]

It's gotta be Gibbs, and it kills me to say it.

HOWEVER, one thing that gave me a little hope yesterday was Gibbs' presser. He looked MAD, not the "we fought hard" and "we're all in this together stuff." He looked and sounded MAD, and that's what I've been waiting for.

Gibbs has been too much of a kindly grandfather type this year. Taking up for his players when he shouldn't, not being tougher on them, making too many excuses, not exuding the confidence of a winner.

I want to see more of that anger from him and I want to see him start going off on some people.

But from a personnel standpoint, from the people they've brought in here...it all lands on Gibbs, as he himself will surely admit.

[CNYSkinFan]

While I understand the notion that it is Gibbs fault ultimately, the Defense is the biggest reason we are losing. Gibbs & Saunders have made steps to improve the offense in mid season, namely going with JC. GW has not made one step toward improving this defense.

[dj_stouty]

While I understand the notion that it is Gibbs fault ultimately, the Defense is the biggest reason we are losing. Gibbs & Saunders have made steps to improve the offense in mid season, namely going with JC. GW has not made one step toward improving this defense.

Yeah..I'm pretty much in this boat.

[Dolla Bill]

While I understand the notion that it is Gibbs fault ultimately, the Defense is the biggest reason we are losing. Gibbs & Saunders have made steps to improve the offense in mid season, namely going with JC. GW has not made one step toward improving this defense.


I adopt this as my own. GW has always been able to get the most out of his players. This year has been atrocious. There is more to it that we slid from 9th to 30th in the NFL. GW has not adapted during the game.

[PennSkinsFan]

GW. Fact is the pass rush and pass defense and now the rund defense has been broken all year and the only move made was to sit Arch? Where is Demetric Evans? Evans gets to the QB a heckuva alot more than anyone else ont he roster. Rocky? Jimoh? To nme, GW has made very little adjustment to a defense that is horrendous. I guess just filling slots when players leave doesn't work eh GW?

[hockeygoalie29]

Right this second, it's Gregg Williams. While the offensive playcalling has been abysmal all season long, I thought it a lot better yesterday. I would have liked a few more runs even though Betts was getting next to nothing on the chances he did get. I loved the deep route to start the game but I would have loved it even more if Lloyd had caught it and not let it bounce off his hands. A catch there changes the entire game.

But Williams can't get anything going with our defense. Yes there have been a TON of injuries, but that never stopped him before and injuries don't account for the lack of heart on the field. He has to get these guys fired up and has failed to do that since the whistle sounded to end the first half in the Colts game.

[bwparker]

While I understand the notion that it is Gibbs fault ultimately, the Defense is the biggest reason we are losing. Gibbs & Saunders have made steps to improve the offense in mid season, namely going with JC. GW has not made one step toward improving this defense.
This is pretty much how I feel. I think its the wording of the question. Where is my "anger centered?" My anger is centered at the defense.

All facets of the game are playing poorly, but the defense just feels lackluster. They aren't just getting beat on big plays anymore, they are getting beat for their lunch money. Offenses are shedding them like a second skin and dragging them around like toilet paper on the bottom of a shoe. Its depressing. People keep saying that the tackling is suffering because they are going to strip the ball, or trying to make a big hit, but it looks to me like we have a defense of narcoleptics. The minute they make contact with an offensive player they just fall asleep and go limp. Its pathetic, its painful. I don't know what happened, but its bad. Our defense is officially terrible.

[Carmelo]

I say Joe Gibbs for simply not believing in himself. I think Joe could have done a great job calling the plays this season; at least we would still have an identity.

[joethefan]

While I understand the notion that it is Gibbs fault ultimately, the Defense is the biggest reason we are losing. Gibbs & Saunders have made steps to improve the offense in mid season, namely going with JC. GW has not made one step toward improving this defense.

Yea but lets remember ..for the past 2 years, the offense hasn't really played up to it's potential....so remember when the defense was good the O wasn't close.....IMO the D peaked and the O never did. and has never peaked since Gibbs has been there.....

[joethefan]

I say Joe Gibbs for simply not believing in himself. I think Joe could have done a great job calling the plays this season; at least we would still have an identity.


I think he gave upon the team when he chose to give up the playcalling....all he needed was El and Lloyd...then he sould have rolled IMO..kep the D in place w clark...and we'd been special..IMO

[fent]

i think williams is the key here...his players aren't tackling and people have figured out his scheme yet there's been NO change.

[hail2skins]

Yea but lets remember ..for the past 2 years, the offense hasn't really played up to it's potential....so remember when the defense was good the O wasn't close.....IMO the D peaked and the O never did. and has never peaked since Gibbs has been there.....yeah, but now we have an offense that can kinda put points on the board and give the team a lead. Like we did yesterday. What happened after that?

[esmith1790]

Well i picked Gibbs, it starts and stops with him, He needs to take over the play-calling on O and or get more invovled in the Defense meetings. adding players. removing players. trying to scheme it better.

[WRSK1NS]

Goto go with the Assistant Head Coach of Defense on this one. Where has the magic gone GW? I hope you find it soon because right now we are embarassing on D.

[bergiemoore]

yeah, but now we have an offense that can kinda put points on the board and give the team a lead. Like we did yesterday. What happened after that?

I agree there. The defense kept OUR offense off the field by allowing the Bucs to eat up 7 - 8 minutes on key drives in the second half. Campbell and the offense couldn't do a whole lot from the bench.

Our defense is old and tired. These guys have consistently played like crap in the second half of games this year. Our offense could be better, and likely will be better. But the bottom line is, our rookie QB, playing in his first ever NFL game, w/o the help of our premier running back and wide receiver, got us the lead. Our defense let the 30th ranked rushing attack gain 180+ yards on the ground, squandered the lead, and just generally embarrassed the team with poor tackling, and awful execution at every level. GW is the first to blame. Gibbs is next. There are no more excuses for this.

(On offense, Betts deserves to lose his starting job for the inconsistent running and case of the dropsies. At least TJ falls forward)

[RedskinRyan]

Gibbs hired these guys and he's responsible for the results.

while true, this is gregg williams defense. hes not getting 2mil a year for this.

[csquared]

yeah, but now we have an offense that can kinda put points on the board and give the team a lead. Like we did yesterday. What happened after that?
The O doesnt get off that easy yet. Do it a few more times then im sold. Im not sold on it yet. I chose Gibbs. Hate to say it but he put it together so he needs to fix it. Williams cant be held accountable for Sean Taylors boneheaded penalties, Carlos Rogers being burned daily, The whole team missing tackles. As much as the D has been a problem. Its on the players if anyone on D. But its Gibbs team so Gibbs gets my blame.

[joethefan]

yeah, but now we have an offense that can kinda put points on the board and give the team a lead. Like we did yesterday. What happened after that?

Mike in this league 17 Points is not enough especially when the league is leaning more towards offensive point scoring and production more than Defense. you can't convince me that getting 20 points a game is OK when you're having offenses that have to score 30 and 35 to hold on to a win. the average amount of winning points yesterday was 23.

Now we are averaging nearly 18 points a game and that's not enough..with all these weapons we have....am I right. And a 7 point lead is nothing in this league...we all should know that....

[HAWGZHEAD]

Gotta vote GW. Yes the players are missing tackles but most of the missed tackles are on the secondary 8 to 9 yards past the line of scrimmage when they have a full head of steam and room to make a juke or 2. They shouldn't be that far down field in the first place. Whatever this scheme is we are using is being exploited and needs adjustment quickly.

Edit: D'oh I accidentally voted for Saunders :doh:

[BurgundyNGold]

Defense. That "break but don't win" defense that GW has employed this year is a sham. If he's a true genius, he'll get this figured out over the offseason. If not, he'll equate to his mentor, Buddy Ryan, as the Mouse Davis of gimmick defenses.

[Death_Venom]

I say that it starts & stops with Gibbs. As he said (in not so many words) "the buck stops here"............

[smoak]

I'm not angry with any coach. I'm frustrated, and I expect to see better results.

[LATrueRedskin]

I really don't like Al Saunders' offense.

[Brokenstriker]

Gibbs ... but with a twist

Gibbs has two options. Can one or both of is assistant head coaches in mid-season and send everything into chaos (not necessarily a bad thing but at best something less than good) ... or try to get something passable out of them during the season and address in the off-season.

Wouldn't surprise me to hear that Al Saunders has "decided" to take another path sometime in January. I don't think Williams is headed for the same fate because of the injuries on the defense, the "whahappened" sophmore year Rogers is having, the un-redskin like demise of Arrington, mutiple decision makers wrt to free agents (I doubt Williams forced Arch on senior management without some support at a minimum) ... and a proven ability to get the job done in Washington working for Gibbs.

So I voted Saunders.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I would like to vote for all three. I know one is the head coach and above the others, but we're not exactly talking about working bees here with Saunders and Williams. These are highly paid assistants who are supposed to be at the top of their profession.

All three of them have been bad this year and significantly bad at different times. Therefore, I would like to vote for all three of them.

[bergiemoore]

Mike in this league 17 Points is not enough especially when the league is leaning more towards offensive point scoring and production more than Defense. you can't convince me that getting 20 points a game is OK when you're having offenses that have to score 30 and 35 to hold on to a win. the average amount of winning points yesterday was 23.

Now we are averaging nearly 18 points a game and that's not enough..with all these weapons we have....am I right. And a 7 point lead is nothing in this league...we all should know that....

Normally, I'd agree with you, but when the Bucs were driving for 7 to 8 minutes per drive, it's really hard to blame the offense for not scoring. In my opinion, the offense didn't really have enough opportunities.

Also, and I think that this is important, it was Campbell's first game, and the 2 most talented position players on this team were out due to injuries. Had Moss been in the game, Campbell's first pass would have been a touchdown.

Yes, there were some missed opportunities. Betts fumble really broke our back, and the inability of the O-Line to get any real push against a beat up Buc's D-Line stifled our running game. However, the offense was productive in the second half. They made adjustments and were able to move the ball well. They are showing signs of life.

The defense, on the other hand, gets worse with every passing week.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Gregg looks out of shape and so does his defense. Remember when we had a swarming D? Now we have a bunch of guys shying away from contact-Warrick Holman and Carlos Rogers run away from the play sometimes whereas last year our guys were piling onto people and gang tackling. What gives?

[Skinz4lyfe]

Honestly, didn't we see this coming last year? Remember at the beginning of the year last year we were giving up big plays? There was the 1st Dallas game, the Chiefs game, Broncos game and 1st Giants games. Then after we plugged Lavar into the starting lineup we stopped the run better. No, I am not saying Lavar is the answer by any means but I am saying the it is the players. I am questioning the talent and continuity of the players that we have on our defense right now. Maybe something needs to be said for keeping some continuity on both sides of the ball and resigining some of our own free agents. Sometimes it may be better to "overpay" to keep someone rather than replace them with a free agent. Also, maybe we need to better re-evaluate who we are bringing in as replacements. Prime example is Archuleta. Archuleta is who he is, a strong safety who excels in run support and a demon on special teams. Never should we have thought he was any good in coverage and he shouldn't be crucified for sucking in coverage. He has never been good in coverage. He's a poor man's Roy Williams. Too bad he's getting paid more than Roy! :banghead: Talk to any Rams fan and they'll tell you the same. Did we really do our homework recruiting these free agents? I don't know but to me the talent level of our defense continues to decline along with our performance. Maybe we need a GM, maybe we don't but one things for sure: Something needs to change and it needs to start w/our philosophy!

[CowboyKilla]

The ax falls on one man and he knows it. Joe Jackson Gibbs.
Unfortunately I love the guy, so, I can't throw the ax.

[santanadasavior]

I'm not mad that this defense hasn't been turned around, I'm mad that it ever got here. It was so good the last two years and no one expected it to fall this low. It is unbelievable, after the number of games they won for us the last two years, especially last year. I honestly cannot believe this has happened.

[skins4ever28]

:sfight: :sfight: I think the redskins have to many chiefs at the coaching postions. Sometimes egos get in the way and maybe it could be happening behind the scenes. GW believed his defense would work with any players , well guess what you need talent in the NFL. Wake up and go draft some defense thIS APRIL.

[santanadasavior]

First of all, please no one quote Bill Maas and his bologna list. If he can't learn to read the end of Joe Salave'a's name (he pronounced it Salave the whole day), he should not be allowed to talk, ever, again.

Second, the only problem is changing the system in my mind. I get it now that it will take some time for this new system to set in. I cannot even understand what the defensive problem is, my only excuse is quantum physics.

[Keino]

The question is who are you most angry at. Sure Gibbs is ultimately responsible, something that he says after every loss, but nobody wants to hear it. But Im not angry at Gibbs. I believe that every move he has made, including entrusting his Brain Trust of a coaching staff has been done with the intention of winning.

I am most angry at Gregg Williams. For the arrogance in which he has conducted this defense this year, stubbornly refusing to adapt his scheme to disguise our defeciencies. It has truly been pathetic.

[redwolf1218]

Williams has always been successfull, with the Titans, the Bills and here the past 2 years. top 10 defenses all of those places, top 5 most of the time (only exception being last year at #9), and number 1 at times. what's the difference now? what was the common denominator when he dominated the league? was it the line? great d-tackles? great ends and pass rush? great shut-down corners? great linebackers? i dont know what it was, but we have none of those on this defense.

Saunders has also been succesful elsewhere, at least after half a season of getting acclimated. his first year with the Rams was rough though.

the only way Williams could be this bad now after being so succesful everywhere else, i think it would be the talent of his personnel.

with Saunders, i think it all boils down to the o-line. this o-line has been horrible.

[bergiemoore]

You know what's funny? The biggest problem with the defense is the tackling. This is a basic skill. It can't explain the entire extent of the ineptitude, but it is soooo pervasive that I can't totally explain it by blaming the just the coaches.

All that said, the first rule of management is "Everything is your fault!". The defense sucks, ergo Williams sucks. The team's record sucks, ergo Gibbs' sucks.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

im conflicted because since both sides of the ball have been subpar, all signs would point to gibbs, but gibbs brought gregg williams here and his defense has been successful for the last 2 years. i cant call his hiring a bad move. al saunders has a proven track record, but his philosophy and playcalling has not panned out this season. we havent not run the ball the way the redskins are supposed to and gotten away from what this offense does well. i think next year will be a different story. right now, my anger points more towards saunders than williams, although the defense has badly let us down this season. i think saunders has more to work with and hasnt made it work thus far.

[shally]

Your anger is centered at which one?

saunders... by a mile...

in retrospect, i think williams got over production and over achievement from a bunch of no names for 2 years. . they finally played to a realistic level. talent, or lack of it, finally showed..

on the other hand, AS had some prime talent on offense and a returning line.
it is hard to imagine anyone doing less with more. his offense is a sham, and so is he..

dump that chump !!!!!!

[bgforever]

saunders... by a mile...

in retrospect, i think williams got over production and over achievement from a bunch of no names for 2 years. . they finally played to a realistic level. talent, or lack of it, finally showed..

on the other hand, AS had some prime talent on offense and a returning line.
it is hard to imagine anyone doing less with more. his offense is a sham, and so is he..

dump that chump !!!!!!

This set of coaches makes for a tease of drama, in some eyes. I guess its because one wants to be a head coach and another has been a head coach, but you can't rule out, he will want to again. As JG is in his final years of his contract, one may get the sense of some form of internal combustion from AS to use GW as the crutch for the team's demise. i.e. leaving the offense out to dry and forcing the D's hand. Naaa. Like my other sarcastic post about the coupe de ta' of GW, it is not that at all. I think the players are doing some things in practice and laying an egg at game time.

I also think the coaches aren't delivering an internal message in the brain of the players that where there's smoke, there's fire! Put the flame on that seat!

[shally]

This set of coaches makes for a tease of drama, in some eyes. I guess its because one wants to be a head coach and another has been a head coach, but you can't rule out, he will want to again. As JG is in his final years of his contract, one may get the sense of some form of internal combustion from AS to use GW as the crutch for the team's demise. i.e. leaving the offense out to dry and forcing the D's hand. Naaa. Like my other sarcastic post about the coupe de ta' of GW, it is not that at all. I think the players are doing some things in practice and laying an egg at game time.

I also think the coaches aren't delivering an internal message in the brain of the players that where there's smoke, there's fire! Put the flame on that seat!

plenty of blame to go around for certain.. but the talent level is better on offense..

still, gibbs needed to send a message today and he didn't-- at least in public.

i think the coaches need to pay the price as well. gray has been a bad joke.
and bugel has seldome done a poorer job of selecting and developing talent.
he has had few injuries and his squad simply blows

[bigcmr]

i think williams is the key here...his players aren't tackling and people have figured out his scheme yet there's been NO change.

Bad fundaments on D. No one is tackling its like all the players exepet Sean Taylor just try to arm tackle. That will not get it done in the NFL. How many times this year have we gotten ran on? And the D new it was comming but still miss tackle after miss.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I think the person that is doing his job the worst (by far) is Williams. This defense has been horrible all season, and no changes in scheme or players (except the AA benching) have been made to improve it.
But having said that, I voted Gibbs because I think our problems extend to pretty much every part of the team, and he is ultimately responsible if a whole team goes wrong. Just a few things that fall on Gibbs IMO:
1)Not starting Campbell earlier.
2)The ridiculous Duckett trade.
3)Not getting a new (good) kicker in the offseason.
4)Hiring Saunders (which could work in the long run but right now is definitely not).
5)A couple of terrible FA acquisitions (AA mainly, but Carter has been mediocre at best as well).
6)Getting two (IMO) very good wide receivers but sticking with a QB who was incapable of using them.
7)Not imposing his authority when some of his assistant coaches are obviously not doing what they should be. For instance, if I were him, I would have gone to Williams and asked him why in the world McIntosh isn't playing when the playoffs are out of the question and the defense is ranked 30th (if not worse). If Rocky sucks more than our current LBs, then it was a bad decision to draft him anyways, and that falls on Gibbs too. Same thing for Saunders and sticking to the running game more.
8)The team absolutely NOT showing up to play in all 3 away division games. That is unacceptable.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

saunders... by a mile...

in retrospect, i think williams got over production and over achievement from a bunch of no names for 2 years. . they finally played to a realistic level. talent, or lack of it, finally showed..

on the other hand, AS had some prime talent on offense and a returning line.
it is hard to imagine anyone doing less with more. his offense is a sham, and so is he..

dump that chump !!!!!!
Do you think his talent on offense was THAT much better at KC? I'm starting to think that that may be the case, and that gap is almost all on the offensive line. We have far better receivers, a pretty equal RB, and a good pass-catching TE. That leaves Brunell and the o-line...

[shally]

Do you think his talent on offense was THAT much better at KC? I'm starting to think that that may be the case, and that gap is almost all on the offensive line. We have far better receivers, a pretty equal RB, and a good pass-catching TE. That leaves Brunell and the o-line...

the o line is mature and has been together all season.. buges has turned in his worst job ever.

plus portis has been unhappy with the blocking all the time he has been here. you do what is best for your players, not try to fit them into some preconceived scheme.

no.. the offensive coaches should hang their heads in shame.. brunell was poor, but they did far less with far more thanthe def coaches...they had talent to work with.. in retrospect, the defense really didn't

[Axegrinder]

It's all on Joe.
I understand that he's got class[something the organization has lacked at times] and that there's a right way to do things,but in the end it's about wins and losses.It's time for him to be a dictator and right the ship.He doesn't have to say anything publicly,just let the results speak for themselves.If his lower level counterparts don't like it,it's their fault.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

It's all on Joe.
I understand that he's got class[something the organization has lacked at times] and that there's a right way to do things,but in the end it's about wins and losses.It's time for him to be a dictator and right the ship.He doesn't have to say anything publicly,just let the results speak for themselves.If his lower level counterparts don't like it,it's their fault.
Absolutely. Next season is gonna be HUGE for us. We can't afford to have another all-around mess like we've had this year.

[dj_stouty]

Absolutely. Next season is gonna be HUGE for us. We can't afford to have another all-around mess like we've had this year.

I agree. But the big question is; What should our expectations be in '07?

Are playoffs good enough?
Do we need to do better than '05?
Super Bowl?

I guess we will have a better understanding after the season ends.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I agree. But the big question is; What should our expectations be in '07?

Are playoffs good enough?
Do we need to do better than '05?
Super Bowl?

I guess we will have a better understanding after the season ends.
That's it for me. It's absolutely unrealistic to expect a Super Bowl, but we can't be satisfied of just sneaking into the playoffs.

[Meatsnack]

The responsibility lies with Gibbs. However, my anger lies with his subordinates.

Williams, in particular, seems willing to proclaim his genius when his junk works and ducks his responsibilities when it doesn't. I hope he pulls himself together and soon.

And Saunders' playcalling has been attrocious. Period.

Joe Bugel has done nothig with our o-line. Dale Lindsey has produced a linebacking corp that sucks. Greg Blache and Jerry Grey have supervised a regression of every player under their command.

How sad is it that Danny Smith has been our most consistent coach this year?

[shally]

I agree. But the big question is; What should our expectations be in '07?

Are playoffs good enough?
Do we need to do better than '05?
Super Bowl?

I guess we will have a better understanding after the season ends.

playoffs or bust, next year.. at least a strong showing

[dabro]

I think it's Gibbs, but I still have confidence that he can change. He has been making adjustments all his career. I beleive that next year the offense will really start to click, or at least as well as it can with the talent is has, because the players and Saunders will have a year under their belt. The players will know the system better, and Saunders will be more familiar with the strength an weaknesses of his players.

On the defensive side, I think that they will shore up the talent this off-season, hopefully primarily through the draft. I think that a longer an tougher training camp next year will bring back the attitude they have had in the previous years, and that they will also tackle better as a result. It's going to take a couple of years though.

All-in-all, I expect vast improvement next year. Gibbs just won't allow this to continue.

[shally]

I think it's Gibbs, but I still have confidence that he can change. He has been making adjustments all his career. I beleive that next year the offense will really start to click, or at least as well as it can with the talent is has, because the players and Saunders will have a year under their belt. The players will know the system better, and Saunders will be more familiar with the strength an weaknesses of his players.

On the defensive side, I think that they will shore up the talent this off-season, hopefully primarily through the draft. I think that a longer an tougher training camp next year will bring back the attitude they have had in the previous years, and that they will also tackle better as a result. It's going to take a couple of years though.

All-in-all, I expect vast improvement next year. Gibbs just won't allow this to continue.

it is on gibbs in the end because he has placed faith in people to do jobs, who frankly failed.. if gibbs does not take matters in hand in the off season then it will be totally his failures.
but, the day to day failures this year rest with the individual coordinators and coaches.. it really says something when the coach who comes off looking best this year is danny smith.. it shows how far things have fallen since years past..

[Redblood]

Without question, it's all on G. Williams and the lack of D.

[Patrick]

Well lets see ............ these last six games should be a pretty good judge of the offense. As many players who have been in the Saunders offense have indicated all along - it takes time for it to be understood. That being say - we should start to see it begin to click. Maybe too late but hey - stuff happens! I'll reserve my judgement on this offense and Saunders until the end of the season.

Defensive wise - what we though was a solid group of talented players - is nothing more than a group of players with a couple that could be consider above average. Williams did great for a couple of years but it's finally caught up with him. Again - he has proven to be a good coach and I'll be interested to see how he attempts to fix it this off-season.

Overall - Gibbs is as confuse as most of us. Going in this season NO ONE though this team was going to be this bad. 8-8 was the about the worse perdiction I remembered. BUT it's his job to make it right. HE'S THE MAN IN CHARGE. He's getting the big bucks to do what he "DID" the best at one time.

Bottomline - I say they will all be back next season to right this ship!

[shally]

Well lets see ............ these last six games should be a pretty good judge of the offense. As many players who have been in the Saunders offense have indicated all along - it takes time for it to be understood. That being say - we should start to see it begin to click. Maybe too late but hey - stuff happens! I'll reserve my judgement on this offense and Saunders until the end of the season.

Defensive wise - what we though was a solid group of talented players - is nothing more than a group of players with a couple that could be consider above average. Williams did great for a couple of years but it's finally caught up with him. Again - he has proven to be a good coach and I'll be interested to see how he attempts to fix it this off-season.

Overall - Gibbs is as confuse as most of us. Going in this season NO ONE though this team was going to be this bad. 8-8 was the about the worse perdiction I remembered. BUT it's his job to make it right. HE'S THE MAN IN CHARGE. He's getting the big bucks to do what he "DID" the best at one time.

Bottomline - I say they will all be back next season to right this ship!

as long as half of the defensive starters are NOT back next season.. we have a serious lack of talent on defense in addition to the lousy job of coaching the def staff turned in this year.

[thickskin]

starts at the top, blah blah. this works as criticism for your manager at dairy queen when the health inspector shuts you down, but the nfl is about more than gettign people through the drive-thru in under 2 minutes. how many of us would've said at the beginning of the season that we had the best coordinators (assistant head coaches) in the league? maybe even the best on each side of the ball? you think we lure people here by lording it over them that if things start going badly they'll be relieved of their authority? ask parcells how things have gone w/out little bill, and ask him how things have gone w/out romeo and charlie. gibbs brought in the best people, and they failed to deliver.

[Smiley]

I'll put it on the players. This is a Joe Gibbs coached team.

[shally]

starts at the top, blah blah. this works as criticism for your manager at dairy queen when the health inspector shuts you down, but the nfl is about more than gettign people through the drive-thru in under 2 minutes. how many of us would've said at the beginning of the season that we had the best coordinators (assistant head coaches) in the league? maybe even the best on each side of the ball? you think we lure people here by lording it over them that if things start going badly they'll be relieved of their authority? ask parcells how things have gone w/out little bill, and ask him how things have gone w/out romeo and charlie. gibbs brought in the best people, and they failed to deliver.

sometimes there has to be repercussions for failure.. payton was dumped for failure and billick dumped fassell (how is that for karma ?) and the browns threw carthon under the bus (deservedly) for one of the worst jobs as an OC in recent memory..
we want to hold players accountable- and they should be.. the same should hold true with coordinators/coaches..
in baseball, the maxim is that, as manger, you are hired to be fired.. even the great ones are

[X-Factor13]

right now i wanna slap gregg williams in the face. period. what bad signings, what a bad strategy every week, what bad EVERYTHING.

[bgforever]

See I am a theorist on the Williams issue. I have a VERY VERY hard time understanding his REDUNDANT actions or should I say - NON -ACTIONS. Now I see it is related to injured players that SHOULD not have played, and AA is truely a sore spot on the team. (Point on AA - Fox over him, for depth, even though AA was healthy?? - nuff said). So AA was in Phoenix setting debts and making videos, show off his muscles while the TEAM was getting involved in the very thing, He NEEDS TIME TO STILL LEARN. Uh-huh. I get it, basically, AA doesn't fit on our team, no matter how you slice it, principle or otherwise.

Williams, Gray and Blache all went UNDER the radar for 6 games, and the players decided they'd voice their displeasure with AA, on the field. Oh and Rogers play is dependent on how confident he is playing with another player, but its ok pay him and the others for being in a Redskins uniform.

Fed up with the usual NFL bs!

[dogfight6]

Did not vote because it's all of the above. Also include Mr. Snyder.

[thickskin]

sometimes there has to be repercussions for failure.. payton was dumped for failure and billick dumped fassell (how is that for karma ?) and the browns threw carthon under the bus (deservedly) for one of the worst jobs as an OC in recent memory..
we want to hold players accountable- and they should be.. the same should hold true with coordinators/coaches..
in baseball, the maxim is that, as manger, you are hired to be fired.. even the great ones are

understood. but sometimes there has to be patience as well. our offseason d moves didn't pan out at all, and when the injuries hit us, the system broke down. that's unfortunate, and williams likely could have done things differently to stop the bleeding. is it worth it to get a new guy, wait for the players to adjust to the new system, teh new guy to bring in his type of guys etc.? i don't think so. but really, my poin twas just that the pyramid scheme is a naive model for accountability in something like an nfl team, even where someone has the level of control gibbs has. i decline to accept that the strategy of bringing in top flight coaches and promising them room to do their thing is a bad one. we had a great d in place, and made moves to improve it, which seemed to mollify any concerns about saunders offensive style and it not being easy on his defensive counterpart in terms of sustaining drives, top, etc. i don't think there were any surprises from saunders this season. a limited qb, an injured rb, a new system: our permormance on offense adds up it seems to me. d broke down. assistant head coach for d is responsible. i'm not out for his head or anything, i'd give him next season

[redwolf1218]

i dont know, i think Jaws did a good job of assessing the problems when he is evaluating Campbell's first start. Rabach, Samuels, Jansen, and even Sellers got called out for blowing protection assignments. the plays called were good ones that should have been successful, and probably would have been in KC with their line.

[meloveskinslongtime]

sometimes there has to be repercussions for failure.. payton was dumped for failure and billick dumped fassell (how is that for karma ?) and the browns threw carthon under the bus (deservedly) for one of the worst jobs as an OC in recent memory..
we want to hold players accountable- and they should be.. the same should hold true with coordinators/coaches..
in baseball, the maxim is that, as manger, you are hired to be fired.. even the great ones are


i agree. the players are the scapegoats now. rogers, archuleta, marshall, holdman, and carter (just to name a few) are all getting blamed for our offensive defense. but where are the coaches. our team cant go from 9th to last in one season when we have most of the same players. something has to be done to make sure the coaches are being kept in check. the players cant take all of the blame.

[bgforever]

i agree. the players are the scapegoats now. rogers, archuleta, marshall, holdman, and carter (just to name a few) are all getting blamed for our offensive defense. but where are the coaches. our team cant go from 9th to last in one season when we have most of the same players. something has to be done to make sure the coaches are being kept in check. the players cant take all of the blame.

You cannot keep coaches in check when the head coach picked them and they are bosom buddies. A GM is NOT so connected to even the head coach, so as to keep the team in great "operational" order from top down. In order to be MORE effective, as Holmgren found out, is to NOT disconnect with the players and coaches to get a SOLID point across from day one.

[WarEagle]

Coach Gibbs has officially lost it (with regards to the new NFL) and I don't know if it can ever be found again...

He had a hard time adjusting to the new NFL. Time's change, I guess. This is all really going to mess up his career winning percentage.