My conversation with Doc this week...

[rskinsfan10]

...is now up for your reading pleasure.

http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=38464

[shally]

...is now up for your reading pleasure.

http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=38464

good stuff..thanks..

maybe doc is on to something about rogers.. you know vince lombardi would have had his eyes and every other part of his anatomy checked out.. maybe it is a "vision" thing.. somebody needs to check that out.

i do disagree that this is a "young" team.. certainly on defense some players are getting long in the tooth and the fall off can be precipitous when players start to lose it... we need youth and athleticism onthe team.. and to start fox was simply ridiculous. he couldn't start on detroit's crappy defense, how on earth does he start here ?? (put doughty in rather than playing fox, i do not care how inexperienced he is)

[Itoolu]

Great stuff but I have to think that if we lose most of the rest of are games the last thing JG would do is leave us worse off than when he came. He would stay and fight his guts out to make us respectable before leaving, but on the other hand nothing would suprise me anymore.

[shally]

Great stuff but I have to think that if we lose most of the rest of are games the last thing JG would do is leave us worse off than when he came. He would stay and fight his guts out to make us respectable before leaving, but on the other hand nothing would suprise me anymore.

only if it is a matter of his health.. that is the only way i could see gibbs walking away after this year..

[Meatsnack]

As usual, Doc makes some fine points. I didn't realize that Lemar has been hurt all year. I wonder if his wheels have been bad since camp? And, if so, what is keeping McIntosh off the field when Holdman is marginal and Marshall is hurt?

[bgforever]

First of all, that is why I like Doc's scoops, because he's closer to the truth on these guys, and no better insider than a former player.

As for me :banghead: I make to many emotional bonehead statements, Like "Williams coupe de ta", etc. Ok, that is a bit harsh at times, because I did explain myself about what I meant by that, and it was true that it was as much coaching (Like Doc said, JG's "staff"), as it was the players (Roger's confidenc level).

I am borderline with Salave'a. I must admit, him, as well as others. just don't last like the guys of the eras of the 80's-early 90's. You get a couple of good seasons and then its "day to day" or out 5 weeks or the season and SOS the next year. It gets really old quick.

Maybe I see it that way, and its wrong to others, maybe its because today's players are more 355 days a year in some form of being at their work, and the weight, training, pumping iron play a part too. Still why can't we get a guy that can at least be present for still giving a good game 95% of the time like MW, even when nicked!

I will have to wait until Sunday to begin my accepting the consolation prize of them beginnning to play for the very principles THEY ALL STATED AT THEIR ACCEPTANCE TO THE REDSKINS OFFER TO PLAY FOR THE TEAM in the first place. Just once I would like the players to stand each and everyone and say "its NOT the coaches fault its our fault. if I don't honor what I said to all of you I will move on because I didn't want to half way it" - NAAA That would be a matter of principle wouldn't it.

[shally]

As usual, Doc makes some fine points. I didn't realize that Lemar has been hurt all year. I wonder if his wheels have been bad since camp? And, if so, what is keeping McIntosh off the field when Holdman is marginal and Marshall is hurt?

players will seldom if ever talk about their injuries for fear of losing their job.. it is up to the coaches and medical staff to make the call when having a player out there will hurt the team, or himself..
marshall has hurt the team all year with his uneven play.
all the more reasonit has been inexcusable to not have rocky out there- at least on running downs

[shally]

First of all, that is why I like Doc's scoops, because he's closer to the truth on these guys, and no better insider than a former player.

As for me :banghead: I make to many emotional bonehead statements, Like "Williams coupe de ta", etc. Ok, that is a bit harsh at times, because I did explain myself about what I meant by that, and it was true that it was as much coaching (Like Doc said, JG's "staff"), as it was the players (Roger's confidenc level).

I am borderline with Salave'a. I must admit, him, as well as others. just don't last like the guys of the eras of the 80's-early 90's. You get a couple of good seasons and then its "day to day" or out 5 weeks or the season and SOS the next year. It gets really old quick.

Maybe I see it that way, and its wrong to others, maybe its because today's players are more 355 days a year in some form of being at their work, and the weight, training, pumping iron play a part too. Still why can't we get a guy that can at least be present for still giving a good game 95% of the time like MW, even when nicked!

I will have to wait until Sunday to begin my accepting the consolation prize of them beginnning to play for the very principles THEY ALL STATED AT THEIR ACCEPTANCE TO THE REDSKINS OFFER TO PLAY FOR THE TEAM in the first place. Just once I would like the players to stand each and everyone and say "its NOT the coaches fault its our fault. if I don't honor what I said to all of you I will move on because I didn't want to half way it" - NAAA That would be a matter of principle wouldn't it.

the only small issue i might have with your post is the one about injuries..players are bigger, faster and hit so much harder thanin years past that it is no wonder that a lot of them break down during the year.. especially in the line where they are getting mauled over and over

plus, salavea is old by nfl standards and his body is just breaking down.
that is why it is absolutely critical to get some younger players for both lines as back up and eventual starters.. that is one of the reasons why dallas is ascending, i believe.. they have more youth on their defensive squad.

[redskin_rich]

the only small issue i might have with your post is the one about injuries..players are bigger, faster and hit so much harder thanin years past that it is no wonder that a lot of them break down during the year.. especially in the line where they are getting mauled over and over

plus, salavea is old by nfl standards and his body is just breaking down.
that is why it is absolutely critical to get some younger players for both lines as back up and eventual starters.. that is one of the reasons why dallas is ascending, i believe.. they have more youth on their defensive squad.
I would argue that we are younger on defense, especially depth-wise, than on offense and we have drafted more on defense for a couple of years now.

[shally]

...is now up for your reading pleasure.

http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=38464

question ???

with all the terrible news about the defensive players turmoil, why hasn't Doc referenced or even alluded to it ? was he not aware ? was he just being tight lipped ? is it all BS and concocted stuff ??

this really seems to have come out of the blue

[OCSKINSFAN]

the only small issue i might have with your post is the one about injuries..players are bigger, faster and hit so much harder thanin years past that it is no wonder that a lot of them break down during the year.. especially in the line where they are getting mauled over and over

plus, salavea is old by nfl standards and his body is just breaking down.
that is why it is absolutely critical to get some younger players for both lines as back up and eventual starters.. that is one of the reasons why dallas is ascending, i believe.. they have more youth on their defensive squad.

I'm afraid that the Dallas youth on D also has good talent (and has been playing, getting better with experience, unlike Rocky).

[shally]

I'm afraid that the Dallas youth on D also has good talent (and has been playing, getting better with experience, unlike Rocky).

saw a very brief reference in one of the wash post articles today that said... we are the oldest team in the nfl ... if so, this is really not good

[SpicyMcHaggis]

saw a very brief reference in one of the wash post articles today that said... we are the oldest team in the nfl ... if so, this is really not good
Unfortunately that is true.

[shally]

Unfortunately that is true.

comes from all those free agents.. the difference between a bunch of 3-5 year players and a bunch of 1-3 year players (draftees) becomes significant when applied over a roster.

[silverspring]

If you talk to Doc please ask him his take on the whole Jackson, Grey, and other defense drama that the Tom Friend article relates.

[Skins57]

only if it is a matter of his health.. that is the only way i could see gibbs walking away after this year..


I agree

Great read

[DUCKIN_TACKLERS]

...is now up for your reading pleasure.

http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=38464
Do you really call him homeboy..man thats old school LOL... pretty good read the thing i like most about Doc is his passion you can tell it bubbles over.

[shally]

Do you really call him homeboy..man thats old school LOL... pretty good read the thing i like most about Doc is his passion you can tell it bubbles over.

i would really like to know his take on the mental shape of the team after this latest bombshell

[hockeygoalie29]

I would argue that we are younger on defense, especially depth-wise, than on offense and we have drafted more on defense for a couple of years now.

How so?

On offense, our top 3 recievers (Moss, Lloyd, Randel El) are all under 27 years old, Portis and Duckett are 25 while Betts is 26, Campbell is 25, Cooley is 24, and Dockery is 26. The only 4 starters above the age of 27 are Samuels, Jansen, Rabach, and Thomas.

On defense, our young guys are Taylor (23), Rogers (25), Rocky (24), and our two rookie tackles. The rest of the guys are all 28 or older: Springs (31), Wright (29), Daniels (33), Carter (28), Evans (28), Wynn (32), Salave'a (31), Griffin (30), Holdman (31), Marshall (30), Washingon (29), and Aruchuleta (29).

[redskin_rich]

How so?

On offense, our top 3 recievers (Moss, Lloyd, Randel El) are all under 27 years old, Portis and Duckett are 25 while Betts is 26, Campbell is 25, Cooley is 24, and Dockery is 26. The only 4 starters above the age of 27 are Samuels, Jansen, Rabach, and Thomas.

On defense, our young guys are Taylor (23), Rogers (25), Rocky (24), and our two rookie tackles. The rest of the guys are all 28 or older: Springs (31), Wright (29), Daniels (33), Carter (28), Evans (28), Wynn (32), Salave'a (31), Griffin (30), Holdman (31), Marshall (30), Washingon (29), and Aruchuleta (29).
That's strange, since we have drafted more on defense than offense of late. While the offense likely won't see many personnel changes next year, the defense likely will have quite a few new starters. Wright, Holdman, Salave'a, Wynn and/or Daniels will all likely be gone. Of this year's rookie class, Golston or Montgomery will be a starter next year, Rocky will be a starter (hopefully) and Doughty will at least be in the mix, in the defensive backfield.

[hockeygoalie29]

That's strange, since we have drafted more on defense than offense of late. While the offense likely won't see many personnel changes next year, the defense likely will have quite a few new starters. Wright, Holdman, Salave'a, Wynn and/or Daniels will all likely be gone. Of this year's rookie class, Golston or Montgomery will be a starter next year, Rocky will be a starter (hopefully) and Doughty will at least be in the mix, in the defensive backfield.

I think it has a lot to do with the way Gibbs used free agency the last couple years. Portis, Moss, Randel El, Lloyd, and Duckett were all brought in by Gibbs from other teams. They are all young guys who still haven't hit their peak but have proven that they can play. From looking at the contracts we handed out last year, Gibbs set them up for a 3 year run starting this season.

You're right about the defense. I think Williams had a lot of input on the free agenst they brought in the last few years as most are in the last 5 years of their careers which reminds me of the pre-Gibbs era of Redskins free agency.

[shally]

I think it has a lot to do with the way Gibbs used free agency the last couple years. Portis, Moss, Randel El, Lloyd, and Duckett were all brought in by Gibbs from other teams. They are all young guys who still haven't hit their peak but have proven that they can play. From looking at the contracts we handed out last year, Gibbs set them up for a 3 year run starting this season.

You're right about the defense. I think Williams had a lot of input on the free agenst they brought in the last few years as most are in the last 5 years of their careers which reminds me of the pre-Gibbs era of Redskins free agency.

arch and carter were certainly not thought to be at the second half of their careers...

[hockeygoalie29]

arch and carter were certainly not thought to be at the second half of their careers...

Carter definitely not, but Arch is going to be 30 next season...

Arch, Springs, Wright, Daniels, Salave'a, Griffin, Holdman, and Barrow were all older when they arrived via free agency. You could also throw in Vincent and Fox but they are mainly stop gaps.

[Axegrinder]

What can you say,Doc has the pulse of what needs to happen.

As for the age thing,I'm sure that Brunell and Vincent skew our average.

[shally]

What can you say,Doc has the pulse of what needs to happen.

As for the age thing,I'm sure that Brunell and Vincent skew our average.

not just them.. collins is up there.. springs is getting there.. marshall is close to 30 i believe.. thrash is too.. patten...daniels..wynn..salavea... quite a few up there