Apocalypto!

[Spence]

Mel Gibson's new movie "Apocalypto" is getting some very good reviews. It's also getting some notice for the amount of graphic violence and gore it contains, including scenes of hearts being torn out of bodies, heads being chopped off, and faces being torn off. Of course, with Gibson there is also the question of anti-Semitism, both in "The Passion of the Christ" [I liked the movie very much, though I would have done some things differently] and his drunken tirade earlier this year.

Please take the poll.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Mel Gibson's new movie "Apocalypto" is getting some very good reviews. It's also getting some notice for the amount of graphic violence and gore it contains, including scenes of hearts being torn out of bodies, heads being chopped off, and faces being torn off. Of course, with Gibson there is also the question of anti-Semitism, both in "The Passion of the Christ" [which I liked very much] and his drunken tirade earlier this year.

Please take the poll.
I think I might have to go see it. But what language is it in? Is it really in ancient Mayan?

[danny's stogie]

I plan on downloading the movie and fowarding it to as many people as I know. I might even burn copies, stand on the street corner and pass them out to strangers free of charge.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I plan on downloading the movie and fowarding it to as many people as I know. I might even burn copies, stand on the street corner and pass them out to strangers free of charge.
But downloading movies is like STEALING!!!!!!!

[Spence]

I think I might have to go see it. But what language is it in? Is it really in ancient Mayan?Yes, the dialogue is mostly the language spoken by ancient Mayans. English subtitles are provided, of course.

[danny's stogie]

But downloading movies is like STEALING!!!!!!!

So it's Ok for Mel Gibson to be a nazi turd, but I can't steal a movie?

[SpicyMcHaggis]

So it's Ok for Mel Gibson to be a nazi turd, but I can't steal a movie?
Yes. Absolutely. Downloading is STEALING!!! You can't STEAL!!!!

[CNYSkinFan]

I might go see this movie, and if I don't it isn't for any of the reasons above. This looks like overblown made for Oscar crapola that I usually hate. It will try too hard to make a point and I usually hate that.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Yes, the dialogue is mostly the language spoken by ancient Mayans. English subtitles are provided, of course.
You know what would be funny? That they didn't provide subtitles...I would pay to see the crowd reaction.
But yeah, I think I'm gonna go see it, especially for the gore and the choppepd heads..lol...but he could have made it in english though...

[danny's stogie]

I would love to see someone "what's up tigerlilly?" this movie. Mel's cookoo brain would probably explode.

[Spence]

I might go see this movie, and if I don't it isn't for any of the reasons above. This looks like overblown made for Oscar crapola that I usually hate. It will try too hard to make a point and I usually hate that.The reviews indicate it is an action movie with some incredible chase scenes. I wouldn't worry about this movie getting too much Oscar consideration. Considering the way "Passion" didn't even get something for the cinematography -- which was breathtaking -- I think it is safe to assume the Academy has decided to skunk Gibson for the forseeable future.

[Spence]

but he could have made it in english though...Gibson favors authenticity over convenience. Virtually all the actors in the movie are from southern Mexico, native to the historical Mayan birthplace.

Also, the lead character's name in the movie is Jaguar Paw. That's pretty cool.

[RedskinsDave]

I am finally thankful I got that degree in dead languages. Mel has provided me with uses for aramaic and ancient mayan.

[danny's stogie]

Gibson favors authenticity over convenience. Virtually all the actors in the movie are from southern Mexico, native to the historical Mayan birthplace.



It might also be because he has to go cheap on the actors now that he has to finance his own films.

[dj_stouty]

I believe it was Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom that showed a man getting his beating heart pulled out of his chest, and that was rated PG in 1984. Nothing new here...

I'll rent it, but it better captivate my attention. I am too impatient to sit throught subtitles, although I managed to do so with his last flick.

[LATrueRedskin]

I'm not going to see this movie, basically because I have no real interest in it. I don't like Mel Gibson much anymore, but I'll still go to see a movie of his if I'm interested in it. I'll probably wait to see this one on DVD if I see it at all.

[LATrueRedskin]

I am finally thankful I got that degree in dead languages. Mel has provided me with uses for aramaic and ancient mayan.

:lol1:

[Spence]

It might also be because he has to go cheap on the actors now that he has to finance his own films.I think that's just a fringe benefit. Gibson is fantastically wealthy due to his profits from "The Passion of the Christ." And considering how profitable Gibson's films are, finding investors, if he needs them, would not be a problem. The fact that he finances his own films gives him a creative license that few directors will ever enjoy. It's a remarkable power and he's earned it.

[Spence]

I believe it was Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom that showed a man getting his beating heart pulled out of his chest, and that was rated PG in 1984. Nothing new here...

I'll rent it, but it better captivate my attention. I am too impatient to sit throught subtitles, although I managed to do so with his last flick.My understanding is that the scenes of heart withdrawal in "Apocalypto" are considerably more graphic than in "Temple of Doom." [That movie, by the way, led to the creation of the PG-13 rating we have today.]

[Skins7ny]

I will never watch another movie with that jackass in it.

[redskin_rich]

I will wait until it comes out on DVD. I am interested in this movie but it is rare that I get out to the theaters and when I do, it usually has to be something that both me and my wife agree on, which is even rarer.
I'm sure this movie will be visually stunning, as all of Gibson's films have been.

[danny's stogie]

I will wait until it comes out on DVD. I am interested in this movie but it is rare that I get out to the theaters and when I do, it usually has to be something that both me and my wife agree on, which is even rarer.
I'm sure this movie will be visually stunning, as all of Gibson's films have been.

Really?

http://www.leventcinko.com/sinema/dvd/images/11409f.jpg

[RedskinRyan]

My understanding is that the scenes of heart withdrawal in "Apocalypto" are considerably more graphic than in "Temple of Doom." [That movie, by the way, led to the creation of the PG-13 rating we have today.]

i thought it was because of gremlins?

im not really interested in the subject, so im not really planning on seeing this ever. also im not into movies that are all bloody-gorey.

[Spence]

\when I do, it usually has to be something that both me and my wife agree on, which is even rarer.I heard that. My wife will not be accompanying me to this movie. She just won't stomach the gore.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I am finally thankful I got that degree in dead languages. Mel has provided me with uses for aramaic and ancient mayan.
Damn Mel..if he had made a movie about ancient Rome or ancient Greece I might have put to some use the 5 years of latin and ancient greece I really did study in high school..now it's all wasted.

[Carmelo]

I plan on downloading the movie and fowarding it to as many people as I know. I might even burn copies, stand on the street corner and pass them out to strangers free of charge.
let me know when you're all set up and running.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

let me know when you're all set up and running.
THIEF!!! THIEF!!!!

[danny's stogie]

let me know when you're all set up and running.

Will do. I think I might even stand in front of movie theatres that are showing the film and try to pass them out there. Mel deserves a good punk'ding.

[akhhorus]

I refuse to watch any Gibson's movies until he apologizes for slandering South Carolina in "The Patriot".

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I refuse to watch any Gibson's movies unless he apologizes for slandering South Carolina in "The Patriot".
Wait, I thought "The Patriot" was completely realistic.....

[danny's stogie]

Wait, I thought "The Patriot" was completely realistic.....

If I recall correctly (was asleep for half of the movie), they portrayed the south as a paradise rather than a backwards, inbred, racist bastion, so yeah, they slandered it.

[akhhorus]

Wait, I thought "The Patriot" was completely realistic.....

Nope. The war down here was much more brutal, and both sides would wipe out cities like the British were portrayed to have done. I believe that South Carolina's problems today spring from how brutal the war was then. Gibson claimed that he was portraying a composite of South Carolina Guerilla leaders, but he's really supposed to be Francis Marion(the Swamp Fox) and he really soft-pedaled Marion's flaws(raped his slaves, shooting unarmed british supporters-including women and children, he never fired a shot during the war he just led a band). The battle at the end(Cowpens) was very accurate though. Historical accuracy in movies is a major issue of Gibson's(Braveheart, Passion, etc--Braveheart being the most inaccurate)

What I take issue with is that they only had 1 or 2 scenes of South Carolinians drinking in the movie, and any true South Carolinian couldn't go 15 minutes without drinking.

[whistleandthumb]

Did the same people boycotting Mel Gibson go to see THE PIANIST, or any other Roman Polanski film?

I'd hate to think that people would boycott some guy moronic, angry drunk guy but not a convicted child rapist.

[danny's stogie]

Did the same people boycotting Mel Gibson go to see THE PIANIST, or any other Roman Polanski film?

I'd hate to think that people would boycott some guy moronic, angry drunk guy but not a convicted child rapist.

Good point. But Gibson's work can't hold a candle to Polanski's...

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Nope. The war down here was much more brutal, and both sides would wipe out cities like the British were portrayed to have done. I believe that South Carolina's problems today spring from how brutal the war was then. Gibson claimed that he was portraying a composite of South Carolina Guerilla leaders, but he's really supposed to be Francis Marion(the Swamp Fox) and he really soft-pedaled Marion's flaws(raped his slaves, shooting unarmed british supporters-including women and children, he never fired a shot during the war he just led a band). The battle at the end(Cowpens) was very accurate though. Historical accuracy in movies is a major issue of Gibson's(Braveheart, Passion, etc--Braveheart being the most inaccurate)

What I take issue with is that they only had 1 or 2 scenes of South Carolinians drinking in the movie, and any true South Carolinian couldn't go 15 minutes without drinking.
Yeah, it was pretty obvious that there was something wrong with the Patriot..it looked like "Angels vs. Nazis"..I highly doubt that was the case.
And you're right about Braveheart..it was all over the place.

[whistleandthumb]

What about JEEPERS CREEPERS? That movie made a poop-ton of money, so I know a bunch of people saw it. Probably some of the same people who plan to boycott Mel Gibson.

Is everyone aware that Victor Salvo, the writer/director, is a convicted child rapist?

Is everyone also aware that by purchasing any Francis Ford Coppola product, and I mean from his wine to THE GODFATHER on DVD, you're supporting a child rapist, because Francis Ford Coppola is the chief financier of Victor Salvo's films.

So, no more watching THE GODFATHER!!! :rolleyes:

[whistleandthumb]

Good point. But Gibson's work can't hold a candle to Polanski's...
I'll take Lethal Weapon over Oliver Twist 8 days a week. :)

[akhhorus]

Did the same people boycotting Mel Gibson go to see THE PIANIST, or any other Roman Polanski film?

I'd hate to think that people would boycott some guy moronic, angry drunk guy but not a convicted child rapist.

Polanski's films have gone downhill since his conviction frankly.

Yeah, it was pretty obvious that there was something wrong with the Patriot..it looked like "Angels vs. Nazis"..I highly doubt that was the case.
And you're right about Braveheart..it was all over the place.

Well, they totally changed the history of it. Wallace was a rebel leader, but he had a partner who was as important as he was(John Common) who was cut out of the movie entirely. The battles aren't accurate at all(there's a reason it was called Stamford BRIDGE). The love story was impossible since the Princess was like 7 at the time Wallace died. Robert the Bruce is portrayed as this soft, kind, Naive politician: he killed a man in a church(got him excommunicated) during Wallace's fights and he betrayed Wallace to the English to get him out of the way politicially.

[danny's stogie]

What about JEEPERS CREEPERS? That movie made a poop-ton of money, so I know a bunch of people saw it. Probably some of the same people who plan to boycott Mel Gibson.

Is everyone aware that Victor Salvo, the writer/director, is a convicted child rapist?

Is everyone also aware that by purchasing any Francis Ford Coppola product, and I mean from his wine to THE GODFATHER on DVD, you're supporting a child rapist, because Francis Ford Coppola is the chief financier of Victor Salvo's films.

So, no more watching THE GODFATHER!!! :rolleyes:

You're right about this though. I like Polanski's films. In general I don't like Gibson's, I find them boring and self-indulgent. If it was Polanski or Kubrick or someone like that who was the nazi I might have a harder time boycotting the films.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

What about JEEPERS CREEPERS? That movie made a poop-ton of money, so I know a bunch of people saw it. Probably some of the same people who plan to boycott Mel Gibson.

Is everyone aware that Victor Salvo, the writer/director, is a convicted child rapist?

Is everyone also aware that by purchasing any Francis Ford Coppola product, and I mean from his wine to THE GODFATHER on DVD, you're supporting a child rapist, because Francis Ford Coppola is the chief financier of Victor Salvo's films.

So, no more watching THE GODFATHER!!! :rolleyes:
I agree with you all the way. I think Gibson is out of his mind, but if he makes a movie I'm interested in watching, then I'm gonna go see it. Now if he makes something like What Women Want, it's a whole different story....lol...

[CNYSkinFan]

My problem with The Patriot is I already saw it when it was called Braveheart.

The only thing that would have saved the patriot was when Mel charged the bad guy Brit at the end he should have impaled him on the American Flag.

THat would be an ednign I tell you what!!! USA!! USA!! USA!!

[Spence]

Generally, I only hold historical accuracy against a film if the filmmakers market it as historically accurate. Most producers are too clever to do that. "Braveheart" wasn't historically accurate [if you want to get into an argument with an Englishman, tell him how great "Braveheart" was], but it was a rollicking good movie. I almost died during it, though. I drank an entire large soda without thinking that the movie might be three hours long. I swear, I thought I was literally going to die in the theater, but I enjoyed the flick so much I wouldn't leave to take a leak. That was easily one of the most physically painful things I've ever experienced in my life.

I never saw "The Patriot." That's a movie with Mel Gibson in it, but I don't consider it a Mel Gibson movie because he didn't write and/or direct it. "The Patriot" was directed by Roland Emmerich, a big-budget schlockmeister who hasn't made a decent flick since "Stargate." That makes it distinct from movies like "Braveheart," "The Passion of the Christ" or "Apocalypto," which Gibson either directed or directed and co-wrote.

"The Passion of the Christ" did bill itself as historically accurate. Of course, since the source material is so thin it is hard to argue convincingly about how accurate the film's depiction of the torment, scourging, and death of Jesus really was. There are four separate and somewhat differing accounts of it in the Bible. Gibson appears to have taken some from each as fits his wishes. I guess that's as good a way to do it as any. The problem I had with the movie was that Gibson also used visions of the torture and death of Jesus that were experienced by two Catholic nuns who were almost 2000 years removed from the actual event. I wouldn't have done that myself. It seems to me that Gibson made a real effort to be historically accurate in this film, though, again, since the source material is so thin and often at odds with itself, we can't be sure if he was accurate at all.

"Apocalypto" is straight-up fiction. Gibson appears to making a real effort to fairly depict Mayan culture during the time period in which the film is set, but the story itself -- that is, the specific events portrayed in the movie -- are a concoction of Gibson and his co-writer.

[Spence]

Two subjects I always defer to Akhh on are South Carolina and alcohol. He's got both covered pretty well.

[akhhorus]

Two subjects I always defer to Akhh on are South Carolina and alcohol. He's got both covered pretty well.

It was purely academic to study both. I had to get into the mind of the drunk South Carolinian to really understand it.

[WackyJacky]

The subject matter (Mayan culture) fascinates me, so yeah, I'm for sure going to go see it. Even though Mel is a nutjob.

[Axegrinder]

I intend to check it out.
One of my favorite places to vacation is in the Yucatan.I've developed a fondness and curosity of the Mayans,so this is a must see.

[shally]

Mel Gibson's new movie "Apocalypto" is getting some very good reviews. It's also getting some notice for the amount of graphic violence and gore it contains, including scenes of hearts being torn out of bodies, heads being chopped off, and faces being torn off. Of course, with Gibson there is also the question of anti-Semitism, both in "The Passion of the Christ" [I liked the movie very much, though I would have done some things differently] and his drunken tirade earlier this year.

Please take the poll.

i won't give a penny of my money to someone like gibson..

screw him and his phoney apologies

[whistleandthumb]

i won't give a penny of my money to someone like gibson..

screw him and his phoney apologies
I'd love to get your thoughts on my previous posts in this thread.

[akhhorus]

I'd love to get your thoughts on my previous posts in this thread.

I can't speak for Shally, but from his post it would indicate that Shally isn't not seeing Gibson's movies not for his comments but for his pathetic excuse for an apology after his comments. You can boycott Gibson without applying a total moral standard to hollywood(which would mean you have boycott EVERY movie in the US). Coppola wasn't funding Salva's movies(and Disney is funding his movies also btw) when he made the Godfather movies or any of his classics, so boycotting those movies make no sense. Boycotting his latest movies now makes some, if you want to apply moral filters to what movies you see.

[whistleandthumb]

I can't speak for Shally, but from his post it would indicate that Shally isn't not seeing Gibson's movies not for his comments but for his pathetic excuse for an apology after his comments. You can boycott Gibson without applying a total moral standard to hollywood(which would mean you have boycott EVERY movie in the US). Coppola wasn't funding Salva's movies(and Disney is funding his movies also btw) when he made the Godfather movies or any of his classics, so boycotting those movies make no sense. Boycotting his latest movies now makes some, if you want to apply moral filters to what movies you see.
I don't boycott anything, because I'm able to seperate the art from the artist. I don't like what Polanski, Salvo, or Gibson did, but they create interesting art, and, at the end of the day, THAT'S what's important to me, as an artist.

To your point, I understand what you're saying about Coppola. I guess it's just about where you draw the line. An argument could be made, and it would be the right argument, that by purchasing a copy of THE GODFATHER on DVD, you're putting money into Coppola's pocket, and, therefore, putting money into a Victor Salvo movie. A boycott of Disney products would serve the same purpose, though there are plenty of reasons to boycott Disney... again, I'm not one to boycott, but I can understand why people do.

My original point was just that people should be careful about what they boycott, because when you boycott something, the point of the boycott is to make a statement. For those boycotting Gibson, maybe that statement is, "I won't support Anti-Semites." Or maybe it's simply, "You acted like a moron, didn't apologize up to my standards, so I'm not going to give you my money." Even if the person isn't protesting or seeking an audience for their statement, they are still making a statement, nonetheless. But if your boycott creates a double-standard, then what are you really saying? Just opening that up for discussion.

[akhhorus]

I don't boycott anything, because I'm able to seperate the art from the artist. I don't like what Polanski, Salvo, or Gibson did, but they create interesting art, and, at the end of the day, THAT'S what's important to me, as an artist.

To your point, I understand what you're saying about Coppola. I guess it's just about where you draw the line. An argument could be made, and it would be the right argument, that by purchasing a copy of THE GODFATHER on DVD, you're putting money into Coppola's pocket, and, therefore, putting money into a Victor Salvo movie. A boycott of Disney products would serve the same purpose, though there are plenty of reasons to boycott Disney... again, I'm not one to boycott, but I can understand why people do.

My original point was just that people should be careful about what they boycott, because when you boycott something, the point of the boycott is to make a statement. For those boycotting Gibson, maybe that statement is, "I won't support Anti-Semites." Or maybe it's simply, "You acted like a moron, didn't apologize up to my standards, so I'm not going to give you my money." Even if the person isn't protesting or seeking an audience for their statement, they are still making a statement, nonetheless. But if your boycott creates a double-standard, then what are you really saying? Just opening that up for discussion.

Its not a double standard, just depends on where your lines of tolerance are. I don't like Gibson because his movies are lame and trite. Him being an anti-semite and a general jackoff doesn't help his case with me. I like Polanski's older films and have never seen a Salva film. And I don't equate buying the godfather dvd with supporting Salva(much better reasons to not purchase anything from Coppola, namely his daughter won't have a bankroll). Buying Salva's films on dvd or a ticket for it is supporting him, boycott him.

[danny's stogie]

Its not a double standard, just depends on where your lines of tolerance are. I don't like Gibson because his movies are lame and trite. Him being an anti-semite and a general jackoff doesn't help his case with me. I like Polanski's older films and have never seen a Salva film. And I don't equate buying the godfather dvd with supporting Salva(much better reasons to not purchase anything from Coppola, namely his daughter won't have a bankroll). Buying Salva's films on dvd or a ticket for it is supporting him, boycott him.

Sure, Sofia was horrible as an actress, but she made up for it with "Lost in Translation". :)

Who's Salva(o)?

[PyroGenic]

I'm not going to see it. But not because of the gore or gibson's anti-semitism, it just seems kinda dumb.

[PyroGenic]

It might also be because he has to go cheap on the actors now that he has to finance his own films.

didnt he make hundreds of millions of dollars off of the passion? He paid for that movie and got HUGE profits. Money shouldn't really be a thing for him.

[dj_stouty]

Its not a double standard, just depends on where your lines of tolerance are. I don't like Gibson because his movies are lame and trite. Him being an anti-semite and a general jackoff doesn't help his case with me. I like Polanski's older films and have never seen a Salva film. And I don't equate buying the godfather dvd with supporting Salva(much better reasons to not purchase anything from Coppola, namely his daughter won't have a bankroll). Buying Salva's films on dvd or a ticket for it is supporting him, boycott him.

*Applause* I hate her stuff.

Anyway, I'll get back to the topic. I try very hard, and pretty successfully, to separate the artist from the art. Sometimes I simply can't do it...(Michael Moore)...other times its fairly easy. (Tim Robbins)

Everyone is going to have a different level of ability to do this...so I really can't fault someone for NOT seeing Gibson's movies. I really liked Braveheart...and aside from some very slow scenes, I enjoyed Passion as well. I'll give Apocalypto a try, but only after I read a few more reviews.

[akhhorus]

*Applause* I hate her stuff.

Anyway, I'll get back to the topic. I try very hard, and pretty successfully, to separate the artist from the art. Sometimes I simply can't do it...(Michael Moore)...other times its fairly easy. (Tim Robbins)


Well, its impossible to separate Moore from his "art", his art is in nature political. I don't agree with Robbins' politics, but he is a great actor and I enjoy his work.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

*Applause* I hate her stuff.

Anyway, I'll get back to the topic. I try very hard, and pretty successfully, to separate the artist from the art. Sometimes I simply can't do it...(Michael Moore)...other times its fairly easy. (Tim Robbins)

Everyone is going to have a different level of ability to do this...so I really can't fault someone for NOT seeing Gibson's movies. I really liked Braveheart...and aside from some very slow scenes, I enjoyed Passion as well. I'll give Apocalypto a try, but only after I read a few more reviews.
See, I would never ever do that. When I go and watch a movie I try to know as little about it as possible, so I'm not influenced by anything..obviously I know what the movie is about and what the general feeling of the public is (or else I would have to live in a bubble), but I hate hearing other people's specific opinions about a movie I have yet to see.

[dj_stouty]

See, I would never ever do that. When I go and watch a movie I try to know as little about it as possible, so I'm not influenced by anything..obviously I know what the movie is about and what the general feeling of the public is (or else I would have to live in a bubble), but I hate hearing other people's specific opinions about a movie I have yet to see.

I'm usually the same way with most movies, however something like Apocalypto, which isn't my normal cup of tea; I may read the reviews of some of my favorite reviewers. Just in case...

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I'm usually the same way with most movies, however something like Apocalypto, which isn't my normal cup of tea; I may read the reviews of some of my favorite reviewers. Just in case...
Ok, I can see that..actually that has happened to me a couple of times (and coincidentally often from reading about a movie here, since you guys get to watch them sooner). For example I wasn't planning to watch Casino Royale, but I've read that it's pretty good (without getting into specifics) so I'm gonna go see it.

[akhhorus]

For what its worth, Apocalypto has been a bust at the box office. Cost 70+ million to make and has only made 35 million in the US. It will make a little money after DVD sales and overseas box office, but clearly it was a failure.

[BurgundyNGold]

None of the above. I will probably see it on DVD but it takes a special moview for me to go out and see it in the theater. This is not it.

[WackyJacky]

Saw Apocalypto today in a half-full (half-empty? :p ) theater. I liked it -- I thought the story was good, and it wasn't nearly as bloody as I had heard. (Not even half as much blood as we were treated to in Passion!) I don't know who the actor was who played Jaguar Paw, but he was very charismatic. I'd like to see him in other movies. I'd give the movie a thumbs-up.

[PyroGenic]

I lied in the poll.

Ended up seeing it and liking it. It's like one big chase scene and the ending kinda blows but meh. Pretty good overall.