Who do you want to be here next year?

[santanadasavior]

Of the people on the hot seat and the ones taht are being talked about, who do you want to keep.

Wait for the poll.

[Biggie]

I don't think Portis should be in this discussion, to be honest with you. When he's healthy, he's just too good of a back.

[santanadasavior]

I don't think Portis should be in this discussion, to be honest with you. When he's healthy, he's just too good of a back.

To be honest with you, I don't want him gone. I was hoping Betts would hit FA so we would be forced to keep him. I don't think they will but the thought of him being delt has been going around so I put him in the poll. I don't expect him to not get a vote in this poll but maybe in the who will be here poll. I want him here, I can just see our FO making the move because of Betts and because Portis can give us a lot back. That's all I'm saying, that the move could be made.

[Santheb]

To be honest with you, I don't want him gone. I was hoping Betts would hit FA so we would be forced to keep him. I don't think they will but the thought of him being delt has been going around so I put him in the poll. I don't expect him to not get a vote in this poll but maybe in the who will be here poll. I want him here, I can just see our FO making the move because of Betts and because Portis can give us a lot back. That's all I'm saying, that the move could be made.

There is no way Clinton gets traded. He had a down year because he got injured. It happens. He'll be back next year with a vengeance.

[ryflan47]

Portis, Springs, Gibbs, Dock

[Green-Is-Good]

Everyone on the list, excluding AA, TJ, and Saunders.

[Vonslydog]

Who do I want here...

Adam Archuleta -no- Don't want him, but he'll be here

Derrick Frost -yes- why not? Doesn't seem to be KILLING us anymore. You can't have probowlers at every position.

Shaun Suisham -TBD- I voted yes, but it really depends on what's available. He's been Ok so far.

TJ Duckett -no- He won't be back, and we don't need him. I appreciate how he's handled his situation here, and I hope he finds a good home though free agency. I think he could make an impact somewhere.

Clinton Portis -yes- Perhaps he's not the "bargain" that Betts is, but C.P. is an elite running back, and they would be nuts to deal him. Think about it, if he was gone, do you think Betts/Rock is a running back stable that will strike fear in opponents defenses? Nope. But Portis/Betts will.

Lemar Marshall -yes- Even if he doesn't play as well as he has in past years, he's a good reserve linebacker, he can play middle or outside, and he's really not expensive.

Shawn Springs -yes- But his deal needs to be redone. Still our best cornerback, and argueably our best defensive back period.

Al Saunders -yes- Unlike most, I still think there is potential in this offense for this team. It isn't the playbook that is a problem, it's the play calling. And that can be (and has been) tweaked. And poor Jason Campbell doesn't need to be learning yet another offense next year.

Joe Gibbs -yes- This year was a setback, but it's not the end of the line

Derrick Dockery -yes- I expect a lot of different opinions on this one. I think Dock has played well this year, and that we should try to keep him. I don't see it happening, though. I get the feeling someone will offer him more than we will.

[shally]

Who do I want here...

Adam Archuleta -no- Don't want him, but he'll be here

Derrick Frost -yes- why not? Doesn't seem to be KILLING us anymore. You can't have probowlers at every position.

Shaun Suisham -TBD- I voted yes, but it really depends on what's available. He's been Ok so far.

TJ Duckett -no- He won't be back, and we don't need him. I appreciate how he's handled his situation here, and I hope he finds a good home though free agency. I think he could make an impact somewhere.

Clinton Portis -yes- Perhaps he's not the "bargain" that Betts is, but C.P. is an elite running back, and they would be nuts to deal him. Think about it, if he was gone, do you think Betts/Rock is a running back stable that will strike fear in opponents defenses? Nope. But Portis/Betts will.

Lemar Marshall -yes- Even if he doesn't play as well as he has in past years, he's a good reserve linebacker, he can play middle or outside, and he's really not expensive.

Shawn Springs -yes- But his deal needs to be redone. Still our best cornerback, and argueably our best defensive back period.

Al Saunders -yes- Unlike most, I still think there is potential in this offense for this team. It isn't the playbook that is a problem, it's the play calling. And that can be (and has been) tweaked. And poor Jason Campbell doesn't need to be learning yet another offense next year.

Joe Gibbs -yes- This year was a setback, but it's not the end of the line

Derrick Dockery -yes- I expect a lot of different opinions on this one. I think Dock has played well this year, and that we should try to keep him. I don't see it happening, though. I get the feeling someone will offer him more than we will.

i think there will some decisions made by the cap.. we can cut arch or lloyd but not likely both.

dock himself will determine whether he stays or goes by his demands

AS ? as much as i feel he was a major mistake, i feel that giving JC yet another offense to learn might be worse than keeping saunders

still his play calling is a real head scratcher much of the time

[RedskinRyan]

i voted everyone but archuleta, duckett, and marshall

cant just dismiss saunders after 1 yr. it would also hurt the development of campbell. of course i want gibbs back. dockett, it would be nice to have that continuity on the oline. springs still has value. and betts hasnt made portis lose his place on this team, yet. you just never know though, but i still dont think he has portis' blocking skills or heart.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Gibbs and Portis. Don't care about the rest.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I want AS, Gibbs and Portis. That's the bread and butter of the offense IMO.

I think Dock is an improving guard and would be a wise sign at the right price, so I'd like to see him back.

I think Springs is still a good corner and at this point, we can't afford to let go of any talent from the secondary.

Arch has to go. I have no opinion right now on the kickers. Frost has been fine, but if we can upgrade that's fine too. The jury is out of Suisham - one good game does not a career make.

I'm not a fan of TJ. I'd rather see Sellers or Rock get the ball if Portis/Betts need a break.

Which brings me to Lemar Marshall. I really like him, but I'm afraid he's probably not good enough at MLB for this defense to be great.

[funnyperson1]

I voted for everyone except Archuleta and Duckett.

I think Al Saunders should stay for consistency. You can't just go switching coaches every year, one would think this team would have learned that by now.

[bergiemoore]

AA needs to go, or restructure his contract so that he's not such a drain on the cap.

Frost and Suisham are both young, and are performing reasonably well. Keep 'em.

Duckett will become a terrific back for someone else.

Portis stays - no brainer.

Lemar will stay on as starter next year, much to my chagrin.

Springs will stay, but needs to start training his replacement.

Saunders needs to stay. We need to develop some consistency on offense. This offense struggled this year with a new coordinator, new receivers, and now a new QB. We desperately need to settle down. I still have faith that Saunders can bring us the type of success that is his trademark. The Saunders experiment will work.

Gibbs stays - another no brainer.

Dock? Depends on him. Dan will make him an offer, but it might not be the sweetheart deal that he wants. If he's cheap, keep him. He's replaceable, though. He's lost a good many match-ups this year, especially in goal line situations.

[Itoolu]

SS gets more votes than CP, unbelievable. I guess its what have done lately around here.

[Spence]

I clicked for Springs and Portis. I'm not necessarily opposed to the others returning, I'm just not excited about it. Let's face it: On a 4-9 team almost nobody is irreplaceable.

[shally]

I clicked for Springs and Portis. I'm not necessarily opposed to the others returning, I'm just not excited about it. Let's face it: On a 4-9 team almost nobody is irreplaceable.

the issue with springs will be cost.. i think he is due to collect about 7 mil for next year. that is an enormous hit for a part time player... that is the key. do they see him as a starter or as a 3rd corner training his replacement ?
and can he even be depended upon for 16 games any more ?

[Spence]

the issue with springs will be cost.. i think he is due to collect about 7 mil for next year. that is an enormous hit for a part time player... that is the key. do they see him as a starter or as a 3rd corner training his replacement ?
and can he even be depended upon for 16 games any more ?When Springs is healthy he is still a very good cornerback in the NFL. Best player on the defense, anyway. That contract can be renegotiated to make it more cap-friendly. They'll have to do that with 10 or so guys this offseason anyway. Springs will be one of them.

[shally]

When Springs is healthy he is still a very good cornerback in the NFL. Best player on the defense, anyway. That contract can be renegotiated to make it more cap-friendly. They'll have to do that with 10 or so guys this offseason anyway. Springs will be one of them.


that is the key.. does spring really want to be here ? will he redo his contract to make it happen ? if he does, it will be worth having him. if not, he will have written his ticket out of here

[Ibleedburgundy]

Everyone on the list, excluding AA, TJ, and Saunders.

Exactly what I voted. Suisham, while we may be able to do better, at least kicks the ball inside the 5 most of the time. Portis should not even be part of this poll. The O-line could be worse and Dock has an upside. I say err on the safe side and keep that unit together if possible.

[Ibleedburgundy]

One more thing, if you vote for Arch in this poll, you are either certifiably insane of a Cowpukes fan. What are the 7 of you thinking!?!

[guinness4health]

I am one of the few that would like to see arch on the team (assuming he wasn't deep throat)....
for two reasons:

1. i refuse to believe he is this bad (there have to be some packages were he could excel)

2. The cap hit we are going to take is going to be rough (if the reports are valid about the contract escalators that guarantee his salary if we don't take the option on the 5 million in roster bonuses)

Other than that Saunders and TJ are the only ones that I don't want back....Saunders is most likely going to be back, but he really needs to rethink his approach and tailor the offense to our personnel

[guinness4health]

One more thing, if you vote for Arch in this poll, you are either certifiably insane of a Cowpukes fan. What are the 7 of you thinking!?!

I voted to keep arch and i am neither insane or a cowpuke fan.....

here is what I was thinking:

the cap hit is going to be rough...he will cost more to cut than keep next year....

and there are situations and packages were he could be successful.....

hell in Greg first year he was getting production blitzing Matt Bowen (no one can tell me that Bowen is a better strong safety than Arch)....

I realize that Arch is going to be cut, but the reality of sucking up that cap hit is going to limit what we can do about adding the depth that is going to be necessary to improve the play of the defensive line and secondary

[Ibleedburgundy]

I am one of the few that would like to see arch on the team (assuming he wasn't deep throat)....
for two reasons:

1. i refuse to believe he is this bad (there have to be some packages were he could excel)

2. The cap hit we are going to take is going to be rough (if the reports are valid about the contract escalators that guarantee his salary if we don't take the option on the 5 million in roster bonuses)

Other than that Saunders and TJ are the only ones that I don't want back....Saunders is most likely going to be back, but he really needs to rethink his approach and tailor the offense to our personnel

Arch played his way out of the starting line up. Then he played his way out of special teams. He really is this bad. Even though we won that Dallass game, we should have lost all because of his pathetic pass defense. He's worse than zero in coverage. He makes Vernon Fox look like Ed Reed.

The cap stuff makes sense but it's either now or later we're going to have to cut our losses. Better to get it over with IMO.

[Ibleedburgundy]

I voted to keep arch and i am neither insane or a cowpuke fan.....

here is what I was thinking:

the cap hit is going to be rough...he will cost more to cut than keep next year....

and there are situations and packages were he could be successful.....

hell in Greg first year he was getting production blitzing Matt Bowen (no one can tell me that Bowen is a better strong safety than Arch)....

I realize that Arch is going to be cut, but the reality of sucking up that cap hit is going to limit what we can do about adding the depth that is going to be necessary to improve the play of the defensive line and secondary

Gregg got production out of Bowen for the first few games, but I thought Bowen got hurt before he had a chance to be exposed in coverage.

[guinness4health]

Arch played his way out of the starting line up. Then he played his way out of special teams. He really is this bad. Even though we won that Dallass game, we should have lost all because of his pathetic pass defense. He's worse than zero in coverage. He makes Vernon Fox look like Ed Reed.

The cap stuff makes sense but it's either now or later we're going to have to cut our losses. Better to get it over with IMO.

we all know that he is a liability in coverage....but he is good close to the line of scrimage in a run support role....

no body should be asking him to cover people man to man that as much Greg williams fault as Arch....everybody and his mother knows that Arch struggles in coverage, yet time after time we left him exposed by forcing him to play man to man against WR, TE, and RB's.

During the course of this season I can remember seeing Arch blitz maybe 5-6 times... while Talyor is sent that many times in a game, and early on in the season that meant that Arch was dropped back into coverage.... that is just plain stupid!!

There are cases in which Arch can be used as a asset (which is why I mentioned Bowen) but Williams refuses to use him.....

part of what made the 2004 and 2005 defensives so good was that he treated all of his players as starters, and he had packages that utilized the individual talents of all of his defenders and keep them out of situations that didn't fit there skillset...

however for some unexplainable reason he doesn't do that anymore....our defensive starters get close to 90% of the snaps and only seem to come out when they need a breather... you can't tell me that Rocky couldn't have been worked in some sets.....clemons played like 50-75 snaps as an undrafted rookie picked up off the scrap heap.


what ever happened to the set where he had 3 safeties, 3 down linemans, 3 linebackers or 4 down lineman and 2 linebackers??? I haven't seen it once this year....(that is a package that Arch could be an asset in)

[redskins567]

NO A.A or Ducket. We dont need them. They stink.

[skinsfan36]

i voted for dock,gibbs,portis(why is he in this poll),suisham,marshall,springs,saunders
now id like to vote for justin smith,fred smoot,patrick wilis,nate clements

[Lavar703]

For me its everybody but Duckett, Saunders, and Archuleta. I have no bad things to say about Duckett, hes been very good with the crappy situation hes been put in, but hes just on the wrong team. Saunders is a great offensive mind, for a team that likes the west coast style, not for an NFC east power running team, a mistake Gibbs made and one that needs to be corrected now. And as bad as Archuleta has been I still feel bad for the guy, hes a gamer and plays his heart out on the field, unfortunately that has not been good enough for this team, although i would like to see Arch get one more chance under a different secondarys coach, I just think we should move on.

[bgforever]

For me, all except AA, Duckett (on default and at my protest). Duckett is in the numbers game, didn't lobby to come to DC and yet, somehow I know in the back of my mind, I can still think of Earnest Byner, Riggs and Ricky Earvins all on the same team. We also had Brian Mitchell as a returner (equivalent in some regards to Rock doing KOR). (BMitch handled ALL return duties, when he arrived). I can understand WHY its better to count Duckett out, than IN, and that is mainly because of him (wanting to be a starter, but he was more effective as a backup to Dunn in Atlanta or when they put BOTH in the backfield at some moments.

Since Betts has elevated his game, and he BETTER stay there, there won't be the need to lean on Duckett so hard, or will they??? Again, I only want Duckett gone, if he wants to start. If he wants to be a part of this team on the way up, then by all means sign him.

AA is gone, because its obvious we need to return Marshall back to WLB, sharing the load with Rocky, like we did to get extra mileage out of Monte Coleman.

[redwolf1218]

Duckett has only had 26 runs all year. the most carries he has had in 1 game this year so far is 7 (he had 2 games with 5 carries each). yet in that limited action, he's ripped off runs of 12, 15, 18 and 19 yards. i would really like to see what he could do with 25 or 30 carries in a game before passing judgement on him.

[BIGSEF3]

We may need to start making "Save Portis" T-shirts. This is just idle speculation by a sportswriter, but it IS Mike Wilbon, and I respect the mans opinion alot:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2006/12/06/DI2006120601073.html

The rushing game is looking good. Boswell, in his column this morning, suggests Portis and Betts might make for a nice tandem once Portis is healthy. I don't know that I expect Portis to be back. Why? I know teams need two healthy and productive backs, but two at those prices? It's not whether the Redskins can afford it absolutely; it's whether the money being spent on Portis, who's been injured often, is best spent elsewhere. The Redskins have so many needs. Certainly they need a couple of upgrades in the secondary, along the offensive and defense lines...



I for one, love Portis and he IS the face of our franchise. If he left, I dont who could possibly fill that role. However, Betts has played better in Saunders' system than any of us could ever have imagined. The cap is rising enough we could trade Portis and take the hit. There arent any "elite" running backs becoming free agents this year and it looks to be a fairly weak year (compared to the past few) for 1st round RBs. we dont have many draft picks and we have ALOT of holes to fill on defense. Portis is elite enough to garner signifigant compensation. I'm not saying I beleive we would/should trade Portis, but you have got to think if Betts continues to play this well, we will consider it.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

We may need to start making "Save Portis" T-shirts. This is just idle speculation by a sportswriter, but it IS Mike Wilbon, and I respect the mans opinion alot:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2006/12/06/DI2006120601073.html




I for one, love Portis and he IS the face of our franchise. If he left, I dont who could possibly fill that role. However, Betts has played better in Saunders' system than any of us could ever have imagined. The cap is rising enough we could trade Portis and take the hit. There arent any "elite" running backs becoming free agents this year and it looks to be a fairly weak year (compared to the past few) for 1st round RBs. we dont have many draft picks and we have ALOT of holes to fill on defense. Portis is elite enough to garner signifigant compensation. I'm not saying I beleive we would/should trade Portis, but you have got to think if Betts continues to play this well, we will consider it.
As soon as Betts fumbles the ball for the first time (which statistically is likely to happen), all the "trade Portis" rumors will suddenly die down...it's amazing how so many people have such a short memory.

[BIGSEF3]

As soon as Betts fumbles the ball for the first time (which statistically is likely to happen), all the "trade Portis" rumors will suddenly die down...it's amazing how so many people have such a short memory.

Well Portis had his fair share of fumbles too. Tiki Barber used to have fumble-itis, but he broke that habbit. I think Betts may have cured his problem there. Either way, Betts has proven himself in this system and is having a better year than Portis ever had here (if you adjust for Betts limited playing time.) Portis' salary takes a huge jump this year and will stay high for the remainder of his contract. If there were ever a year to trade him, this would be it.... I'm not saying I really think it will or should happen, it just wouldnt surprise me if it did.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Well Portis had his fair share of fumbles too. Tiki Barber used to have fumble-itis, but he broke that habbit. I think Betts may have cured his problem there. Either way, Betts has proven himself in this system and is having a better year than Portis ever had here (if you adjust for Betts limited playing time.) Portis' salary takes a huge jump this year and will stay high for the remainder of his contract. If there were ever a year to trade him, this would be it.... I'm not saying I really think it will or should happen, it just wouldnt surprise me if it did.
You might wanna check your facts...

[danny's stogie]

Well Portis had his fair share of fumbles too. Tiki Barber used to have fumble-itis, but he broke that habbit. I think Betts may have cured his problem there. Either way, Betts has proven himself in this system and is having a better year than Portis ever had here (if you adjust for Betts limited playing time.) Portis' salary takes a huge jump this year and will stay high for the remainder of his contract. If there were ever a year to trade him, this would be it.... I'm not saying I really think it will or should happen, it just wouldnt surprise me if it did.

I have to disagree with you SEF. You can't extrapolate RB stats. Part of their measure of worth is their ability to be consistent, something that Portis had proven before getting injured in the preseason and something that Betts has never proven. Furthermore, if you want to say that Betts is better in Saunders' system then I have to disagree once again. Betts is the better pass catcher and that is important in Saunders' system, but the type of running style the Skins have adopted the last several weeks is the same style the Skins' employed at the end of last season when Portis was playing so well.

As for trading Portis, I wouldn't want to see it, I like both him and Betts and think they'll make an absolutely fantastic combo next season, but you're right that no one is untouchable. If someone wanted to offer an impact defender like Peppers or Jason Taylor the Skins would be fools not to say yes, but that said, I highly, highly doubt that would ever happen.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

Frost, Suisham, Duckett, Portis, Marshall, Springs, Gibbs, and Dock.

I could care less if Saunders is here. He might have a great playbook, but he doesn't call a good game. If that was him calling the games. I don't know who's calling plays and we might never know who was.

I don't know if they will get rid of Archuleta, but he should play weakside LB instead of Holdman, who should defineately be gone.

[BIGSEF3]

I have to disagree with you SEF. You can't extrapolate RB stats. Part of their measure of worth is their ability to be consistent, something that Portis had proven before getting injured in the preseason and something that Betts has never proven. Furthermore, if you want to say that Betts is better in Saunders' system then I have to disagree once again. Betts is the better pass catcher and that is important in Saunders' system, but the type of running style the Skins have adopted the last several weeks is the same style the Skins' employed at the end of last season when Portis was playing so well.

As for trading Portis, I wouldn't want to see it, I like both him and Betts and think they'll make an absolutely fantastic combo next season, but you're right that no one is untouchable. If someone wanted to offer an impact defender like Peppers or Jason Taylor the Skins would be fools not to say yes, but that said, I highly, highly doubt that would ever happen.

Betts has nearly 200 run attempts and is averaging 4.7ypc. Portis has had 3.8, 4.1, and 4.3 here. Yes, both Betts and Portis have had injury problems, and yes, Portis is by far a better blocker, but having both of them seems like overkill. The key to me is that both this year and last, we really didnt seem to have that much of a drop-off when Portis was injured. almost no back in the league can be your every-down back all season without injury - you need two backs... but Betts AND Portis is overkill. We have a ton of holes on this team and not alot of ways to fill them. Like you said, no one is untouchable... but i looked around and the only team i saw as a reasonable chance of us doing a trade with were the falcons.

[BIGSEF3]

Frost, Suisham, Duckett, Portis, Marshall, Springs, Gibbs, and Dock.

I could care less if Saunders is here. He might have a great playbook, but he doesn't call a good game. If that was him calling the games. I don't know who's calling plays and we might never know who was.

I don't know if they will get rid of Archuleta, but he should play weakside LB instead of Holdman, who should defineately be gone.

Saunders proved for years in KC he can call good games. I think half the problems this year have come from Saunders having to wait for Gibbs to decide what to do in certain situation. The other half is just players no EXECUTING. Take Campbell's 1st NFL pass. Lloyd makes that catch, the whole face of the game changes. Yes, weve had too many reverses, but other teams run alot of reverses.... with success. Give Saunders more time.

[danny's stogie]

Betts has nearly 200 run attempts and is averaging 4.7ypc. Portis has had 3.8, 4.1, and 4.3 here. Yes, both Betts and Portis have had injury problems, and yes, Portis is by far a better blocker, but having both of them seems like overkill. The key to me is that both this year and last, we really didnt seem to have that much of a drop-off when Portis was injured. almost no back in the league can be your every-down back all season without injury - you need two backs... but Betts AND Portis is overkill. We have a ton of holes on this team and not alot of ways to fill them. Like you said, no one is untouchable... but i looked around and the only team i saw as a reasonable chance of us doing a trade with were the falcons.

You contradict yourself. I don't think it's overkill, it's a huge, huge strength to have going into next season. I hope they get 500 carries combined.

Frost, Suisham, Duckett, Portis, Marshall, Springs, Gibbs, and Dock.

I could care less if Saunders is here. He might have a great playbook, but he doesn't call a good game. If that was him calling the games. I don't know who's calling plays and we might never know who was.



I'm starting to like Saunders now that he's had his wings clipped and stopped trying to outthink himself when the run game is working well.

[AliBabba]

Betts has nearly 200 run attempts and is averaging 4.7ypc. Portis has had 3.8, 4.1, and 4.3 here. Yes, both Betts and Portis have had injury problems, and yes, Portis is by far a better blocker, but having both of them seems like overkill. The key to me is that both this year and last, we really didnt seem to have that much of a drop-off when Portis was injured. almost no back in the league can be your every-down back all season without injury - you need two backs... but Betts AND Portis is overkill. We have a ton of holes on this team and not alot of ways to fill them. Like you said, no one is untouchable... but i looked around and the only team i saw as a reasonable chance of us doing a trade with were the falcons.
You will notice a dropoff if you go from Portis to Betts next year.... also Atlanta is probably feeling pretty good about Jerrious Norwood right now and I doubt they want to sit him down next year for anybody. Plus, that team needs to invest in somebody that can catch the dang ball since they already run for like 300 yards a game

[BIGSEF3]

You will notice a dropoff if you go from Portis to Betts next year.... also Atlanta is probably feeling pretty good about Jerrious Norwood right now and I doubt they want to sit him down next year for anybody. Plus, that team needs to invest in somebody that can catch the dang ball since they already run for like 300 yards a game

Why? There wasn't one this year.....

to your second point, I forgot about Norwood, dangit!

[Vonslydog]

Why? There wasn't one this year.....

to your second point, I forgot about Norwood, dangit!
Sure there was a dropoff this year. I can't be the only one that sees it, can I? Look at the games before Portis went on IR

Game 1: Portis - 3.9ypc, Betts - 2.8ypc
Game 2: Portis - DNP, Betts - 3.6ypc
Game 3: Portis - 5.4ypc, Betts - 7.8ypc (If you factor in the "shovel pass" as a run, Portis's numbers become 9.4ypc. Yes, I know it's not technically a run, which is why I listed it seperately.)
Game 4: Portis - 4.1ypc, Betts - 3.4ypc
Game 5: Portis - 4.0ypc, Betts - 2.0ypc
Game 6: Portis - 4.1ypc, Betts - 3.4ypc
Game 7: Portis - 3.6ypc, Betts - 5.2ypc
Game 8: Portis - 3.7ypc, Betts - 2.7ypc
Game 9: Portis - 4.2ypc, Betts - 4.2ypc

I count 2 games out of 9 where Betts "outperformed" Portis. One of those two games (against Houston) where Betts had a better ypc, it would be very hard to say that Betts actually played better.

The next game (TB), with Portis out, Ladell put up a whopping 2.6ypc.

Then something happened. Gibbs got pissed. Said the team wasn't playing "redskins football." This is when the play calling changed. More running between the tackles. Less of the showboat outside runs that had been used all year. This is when Betts started performing well. It is unfair to assume that Portis's production would not have improved as well. In fact, considering that Portis was playing, in my opinion, better football through the first 9 games than was Betts, it is almost idiotic to assume that his production would not have improved as well.

And all that doesn't even take into account that Portis wasn't even close to 100% at any time during this regular season.

Don't take this the wrong way, because I love Ladell Betts as a change of pace back, and a part time starter, and the "2" in the 1-2 punch, but he just isn't on the same level as Clinton Portis. Not even close. It's really starting to get me down that people are acting like he is. Ladell Betts is merely a good, complete, all-purpose, running back. One of the best second options in the league. Clinton Portis is an elite running back. One of the best first options in the league.

[redskin_rich]

I wish Betts could score TD's like Portis does. We might still be in the playoff hunt.

[BIGSEF3]

Sure there was a dropoff this year. I can't be the only one that sees it, can I? Look at the games before Portis went on IR

Game 1: Portis - 3.9ypc, Betts - 2.8ypc
Game 2: Portis - DNP, Betts - 3.6ypc
Game 3: Portis - 5.4ypc, Betts - 7.8ypc (If you factor in the "shovel pass" as a run, Portis's numbers become 9.4ypc. Yes, I know it's not technically a run, which is why I listed it seperately.)
Game 4: Portis - 4.1ypc, Betts - 3.4ypc
Game 5: Portis - 4.0ypc, Betts - 2.0ypc
Game 6: Portis - 4.1ypc, Betts - 3.4ypc
Game 7: Portis - 3.6ypc, Betts - 5.2ypc
Game 8: Portis - 3.7ypc, Betts - 2.7ypc
Game 9: Portis - 4.2ypc, Betts - 4.2ypc

I count 2 games out of 9 where Betts "outperformed" Portis. One of those two games (against Houston) where Betts had a better ypc, it would be very hard to say that Betts actually played better.

The next game (TB), with Portis out, Ladell put up a whopping 2.6ypc.

Then something happened. Gibbs got pissed. Said the team wasn't playing "redskins football." This is when the play calling changed. More running between the tackles. Less of the showboat outside runs that had been used all year. This is when Betts started performing well. It is unfair to assume that Portis's production would not have improved as well. In fact, considering that Portis was playing, in my opinion, better football through the first 9 games than was Betts, it is almost idiotic to assume that his production would not have improved as well.

And all that doesn't even take into account that Portis wasn't even close to 100% at any time during this regular season.

Don't take this the wrong way, because I love Ladell Betts as a change of pace back, and a part time starter, and the "2" in the 1-2 punch, but he just isn't on the same level as Clinton Portis. Not even close. It's really starting to get me down that people are acting like he is. Ladell Betts is merely a good, complete, all-purpose, running back. One of the best second options in the league. Clinton Portis is an elite running back. One of the best first options in the league.

But Portis isnt suited for that style of offense. I'm not dogging Portis, but we've found something in Betts that is working. But to your argument, lets say Portis IS suited for this style of offense. Do you really think, based on his history here, that he would really perform THAT MUCH better than Betts? We played "redskins football" for the past 2 years and Portis never had 4.7YPC. Betts is averaging close to 5YPC on the year and he is getting better every week. We've found a good thing there. So you have to ask yourself, do we really NEED both of them? Would this team be better off with Betts and Portis OR Betts, a backup running back, and a stud CB, MLB or passrusher we could get in a trade?

I look at our team and i see an overflow of talent at the RB position and ALOT of defensive needs to fill. If we can fill those needs and keep portis, then by all means, why not have our cake and eat it too? But my opinion is that Betts has performed well enough, that we could deal Portis and not really lose anything in terms of offensive production.

[redskin_rich]

But Portis isnt suited for that style of offense. I'm not dogging Portis, but we've found something in Betts that is working. But to your argument, lets say Portis IS suited for this style of offense. Do you really think, based on his history here, that he would really perform THAT MUCH better than Betts? We played "redskins football" for the past 2 years and Portis never had 4.7YPC. Betts is averaging close to 5YPC on the year and he is getting better every week. We've found a good thing there. So you have to ask yourself, do we really NEED both of them? Would this team be better off with Betts and Portis OR Betts, a backup running back, and a stud CB, MLB or passrusher we could get in a trade?

I look at our team and i see an overflow of talent at the RB position and ALOT of defensive needs to fill. If we can fill those needs and keep portis, then by all means, why not have our cake and eat it too? But my opinion is that Betts has performed well enough, that we could deal Portis and not really lose anything in terms of offensive production.
Portis is suited for this style of offense. What Saunders is doing with the running game is a lot different than what Gibbs has done the last two years. I actually think Betts was more suited to Gibbs system. Regardless, Portis still did pretty good in Gibbs system, even if it wasn't perfectly suited to his talents. I have put the numbers up before and I can again, none of Gibbs RB's have put up the numbers in consecutive years that Portis did in '04 and '05. Gibbs system was not meant for high average per carry. It was suited for a workhorse that can consistantly get 3 to 4 yards per carry.
Saunders system is very running back friendly and there is room for both Portis and Betts in this offense. The difference is that Portis can take it to the house at any given time, where Betts simply doesn't have that extra gear.
Betts new deal is in line with that of the top backups in the league, it is not overspending or overkill at the RB position. There are players like Shaun Alexander and Edge James that make more than Portis and Betts combined and frankly, they are not worth it. There is only one team that can get by with one RB and that is San Diego, because LT can do it all and is remarkably durable. His injuries will come though, especially playing Marty ball, getting well over 300 carries per season.
Bottom line, I think you are dead wrong, if you think we can afford to get rid of Portis and thrive with Betts alone. Defenses take notice of Portis, Betts scares no one. Two games in a row, Betts has rushed for over 150 yards and we lost both games. Show me how many times we have lost when Portis rushed for over 100.

[Red Bear]

But Portis isnt suited for that style of offense. I'm not dogging Portis, but we've found something in Betts that is working. But to your argument, lets say Portis IS suited for this style of offense. Do you really think, based on his history here, that he would really perform THAT MUCH better than Betts? We played "redskins football" for the past 2 years and Portis never had 4.7YPC. Betts is averaging close to 5YPC on the year and he is getting better every week. We've found a good thing there. So you have to ask yourself, do we really NEED both of them? Would this team be better off with Betts and Portis OR Betts, a backup running back, and a stud CB, MLB or passrusher we could get in a trade?

I look at our team and i see an overflow of talent at the RB position and ALOT of defensive needs to fill. If we can fill those needs and keep portis, then by all means, why not have our cake and eat it too? But my opinion is that Betts has performed well enough, that we could deal Portis and not really lose anything in terms of offensive production.

like Rich mentioned, Betts hasnt scored the TDs portis has either. and if youve paid attention to the holes the oline has been opening for betts lately since gibbs made changes and put more emphasis on the running game, some of those portis gets more than the 10+ yard runs betts has been getting, some of those portis gets 20-30+ yards and maybe even goes all the way. i give a lot of credit for what betts has done lately to the oline. while betts has been solid and im glad we resigned him, he is not the big play threat portis is either. anyways i dont think were going into 2007 with a ton of dead cap space dedicated to players not on the team like we have in years past. that will help us some, plus the cap moving up. and all those players willing to restructure last year in case there was no CBA extension might be willing to do so again this year, especially some of those that feel theyre in danger of getting cut. so we will be able to improve in areas through free agency and what draft picks we do have or may pick up(and i dont expect any compensatory picks this year).

also, i think saunders will call much better games next year when he will have a much better feel for our players and what they do well. i think the play calling looks a lot better lately with campbell in because he is throwing the ball down the field, and that little pass to betts in the flat that brunell always threw on third and long hasnt been thrown often most likely due to betts increased role carrying the ball and to campbells arm strength to make throws brunell cant.

also, even tho this thread is about people who are currently redskins. some of you have been hoping for smoot to get cut so we can resign him this offseason(why i dont know). but earlier on the news george michael addressed rumors about it pretty much saying its almost certain not to happen

[Red Bear]

Portis is suited for this style of offense. What Saunders is doing with the running game is a lot different than what Gibbs has done the last two years. I actually think Betts was more suited to Gibbs system. Regardless, Portis still did pretty good in Gibbs system, even if it wasn't perfectly suited to his talents. I have put the numbers up before and I can again, none of Gibbs RB's have put up the numbers in consecutive years that Portis did in '04 and '05. Gibbs system was not meant for high average per carry. It was suited for a workhorse that can consistantly get 3 to 4 yards per carry.
Saunders system is very running back friendly and there is room for both Portis and Betts in this offense. The difference is that Portis can take it to the house at any given time, where Betts simply doesn't have that extra gear.
Betts new deal is in line with that of the top backups in the league, it is not overspending or overkill at the RB position. There are players like Shaun Alexander and Edge James that make more than Portis and Betts combined and frankly, they are not worth it. There is only one team that can get by with one RB and that is San Diego, because LT can do it all and is remarkably durable. His injuries will come though, especially playing Marty ball, getting well over 300 carries per season.
Bottom line, I think you are dead wrong, if you think we can afford to get rid of Portis and thrive with Betts alone. Defenses take notice of Portis, Betts scares no one. Two games in a row, Betts has rushed for over 150 yards and we lost both games. Show me how many times we have lost when Portis rushed for over 100.

excellent points

[Vonslydog]

But Portis isnt suited for that style of offense. I'm not dogging Portis, but we've found something in Betts that is working. But to your argument, lets say Portis IS suited for this style of offense. Do you really think, based on his history here, that he would really perform THAT MUCH better than Betts? We played "redskins football" for the past 2 years and Portis never had 4.7YPC. Betts is averaging close to 5YPC on the year and he is getting better every week. We've found a good thing there. So you have to ask yourself, do we really NEED both of them? Would this team be better off with Betts and Portis OR Betts, a backup running back, and a stud CB, MLB or passrusher we could get in a trade?

I look at our team and i see an overflow of talent at the RB position and ALOT of defensive needs to fill. If we can fill those needs and keep portis, then by all means, why not have our cake and eat it too? But my opinion is that Betts has performed well enough, that we could deal Portis and not really lose anything in terms of offensive production.

I think we do NEED both of them, or at least two good running backs. I also don't see Betts as being a particularly great first option. I see no overflow at RB. If we hypothetically dealt Portis, we'd have an OK starter with a history of injuries, and nothing behind him. Who do you think we have depth-wise? Rock? Duckett? Right. What would happen if Betts went down and Rock had to carry the load? A whole lot of nothing is what. Who else do you propose we'd get for RB depth?

Also, keep in mind that a lot of this Betts sentiment is based on the last three weeks of games. Thats 24-28-33 carries. If he kept that pace for a full 16 game season, that would be, what, a little north of 450 carries? That is only 40 more than the single season record. I don't recall Betts being particularly durable during his career, but oviously he'll be good for 450 carries next year. And that's without any post season.

And if Portis hasn't been effective enough the past two years, how effective has Betts been, in that same time frame? Last year Portis averaged 4.3ypc, where Betts averaged 3.8. Same system.
Over the past two and a half seasons, when Portis and Betts have been in the same situation, Portis has substantially outperformed Ladell Betts. That is a fact.

I agree that we have holes on defense, and I agree that we need to fill them. But trading our best offensive player for yet another high-priced "stud" is not the answer.

The bolded part of your comment is the part I take issue with. If I believed for a second that we would not "really lose anything in terms of offensive production", I might be inclined to agree with you. I just don't agree with that... at all.

---addition---
RedBear and Redskin_rich mentioned something that I thought about saying but decided to leave out. About the potential for Portis to have taken what were 15-20 yard runs for Betts, and turning them into 6 points. I agree with them totally. The only reason I didn't mention that point, was because there is no way to know for sure if Portis would have taken any of those runs to the house. But from where I sit, I would certainly not be surprised if he would have.

[BurgundyNGold]

But Portis isnt suited for that style of offense. I'm not dogging Portis, but we've found something in Betts that is working. But to your argument, lets say Portis IS suited for this style of offense. Do you really think, based on his history here, that he would really perform THAT MUCH better than Betts? We played "redskins football" for the past 2 years and Portis never had 4.7YPC. Betts is averaging close to 5YPC on the year and he is getting better every week. We've found a good thing there. So you have to ask yourself, do we really NEED both of them? Would this team be better off with Betts and Portis OR Betts, a backup running back, and a stud CB, MLB or passrusher we could get in a trade?

I look at our team and i see an overflow of talent at the RB position and ALOT of defensive needs to fill. If we can fill those needs and keep portis, then by all means, why not have our cake and eat it too? But my opinion is that Betts has performed well enough, that we could deal Portis and not really lose anything in terms of offensive production.
Quick recap: We're not very good at making "deals". We overpay to get people (take your pick here) and then are forced to take less than they're worth when we trade them because we wait too long (Gardner). We give away draft picks for players who will be cut (Brunell) or that we don't use (Duckett).

I don't want to do any more deals. Danny, step away from the red button. We should focus on drafting and developing a core to our franchise -- something we could've done twice over by now if Danny didn't have the attention span of a meth addict with ADHD.

[BurgundyNGold]

Portis is suited for this style of offense. What Saunders is doing with the running game is a lot different than what Gibbs has done the last two years. I actually think Betts was more suited to Gibbs system. Regardless, Portis still did pretty good in Gibbs system, even if it wasn't perfectly suited to his talents. I have put the numbers up before and I can again, none of Gibbs RB's have put up the numbers in consecutive years that Portis did in '04 and '05. Gibbs system was not meant for high average per carry. It was suited for a workhorse that can consistantly get 3 to 4 yards per carry.
Saunders system is very running back friendly and there is room for both Portis and Betts in this offense. The difference is that Portis can take it to the house at any given time, where Betts simply doesn't have that extra gear.
Betts new deal is in line with that of the top backups in the league, it is not overspending or overkill at the RB position. There are players like Shaun Alexander and Edge James that make more than Portis and Betts combined and frankly, they are not worth it. There is only one team that can get by with one RB and that is San Diego, because LT can do it all and is remarkably durable. His injuries will come though, especially playing Marty ball, getting well over 300 carries per season.
Bottom line, I think you are dead wrong, if you think we can afford to get rid of Portis and thrive with Betts alone. Defenses take notice of Portis, Betts scares no one. Two games in a row, Betts has rushed for over 150 yards and we lost both games. Show me how many times we have lost when Portis rushed for over 100.
The system may be Portis friendly but I'm not so sure that it is friendly to our OL. Running wide and gadget plays all the time is not what these guys are good at. What Portis IS good at is picking a hole and shooting downfield. There have been holes this year if they cutr back behind the trailing OT. You know, like Travis Henry did to us all day. If Portis would do that more, there would be a lot of green grass and high tides for #26.

[redskin_rich]

The system may be Portis friendly but I'm not so sure that it is friendly to our OL. Running wide and gadget plays all the time is not what these guys are good at. What Portis IS good at is picking a hole and shooting downfield. There have been holes this year if they cutr back behind the trailing OT. You know, like Travis Henry did to us all day. If Portis would do that more, there would be a lot of green grass and high tides for #26.
I think our line has looked real good lately with the pitch outs and pulling. The reverses are not working but they have been overused. That is something you do 3-4 times a year, not 2-3 times per game. Our biggest weakness with the line has been pass blocking but until we establish that we can burn a blitz and have a formidable passing attack, that will continue.

[santanadasavior]

The system may be Portis friendly but I'm not so sure that it is friendly to our OL. Running wide and gadget plays all the time is not what these guys are good at. What Portis IS good at is picking a hole and shooting downfield. There have been holes this year if they cutr back behind the trailing OT. You know, like Travis Henry did to us all day. If Portis would do that more, there would be a lot of green grass and high tides for #26.

Portis is great at finding holes which is why I hope that we continue the run playcalling that we are doing now. Betts his the hole with equal if not more power than Portis. They are both very good. The system is working on the ground now. To be honest I would want that to be established before the air attack anyway. I think that the Saunders offense if going to work and that we were all a little too overconfident of it going into the season. It is still a first year offense and the running game is really clicking now. We just need some plays for inside the twenty.

[skins111111]

the coaching staff must remain and Dockery is a must after haveing a real good year ( he continues to grow and after shedding some lbs is blocking better and remaining on his feet)....CP and Betts will make a great 1 2 punch

[santanadasavior]

the coaching staff must remain and Dockery is a must after haveing a real good year ( he continues to grow and after shedding some lbs is blocking better and remaining on his feet)....CP and Betts will make a great 1 2 punch

I really think that we could rack up 200+ yards rushing a game with these two plus JC running and gadget plays. I think that all of these guys together can get us there. I think what we need to learn how to do is score in the redzone. That is our biggest problem. I think a good plan would be using Betts and Portis the way the Saints use Bush and McCalister. Have Betts go right up the middle and Portis around the outside. Let the defense get confused.

[LATrueRedskin]

Adam Archuleta - I actually said yes. I think he is salvagable and can play well for us in the right situation. Having him in coverage is obviously not the answer. He was effective blitzing this year when he got the chance to, and was a solid run-stopper.

Derrick Frost - Sure, why not. He's been solid for us lately, so I don't see a glaring need to replace him.

Shaun Suisham - Depends on how he fares the rest of the year. If he consistently hits 4/4, then I'm all for giving him a shot next year.

TJ Duckett - No. We re-signed Betts, so there's really no need for T.J. on this team. I'm sorry that we screwed with him this year.

Clinton Portis - Oh yeah, most definately want him back. For a long, long time. He's a great player and the type of fighter you want on the field.

Lemar Marshall - I said yes, because he provides cheap, solid depth at all linebacker positions. I'm hoping for Patrick Willis to be a part of this team next year at Mike.

Shawn Springs - Yep, at either corner or safety. He's got a nose for the ball, and provides veteran leadership and good communication on the field. He's still a solid cover-guy.

Al Saunders - Not really, but I'll take him back if he continue to gameplan the way he's doing. His "gameplans" and formations earlier in the year were a joke and didn't really fit this team, but after Coach's tirade, he's been calling pretty good ball games offensively.

Joe Gibbs - Definately. I'd rather continue on the Joe Gibbs ship then overhaul everything completely. There's another coach that's not on this list that I wouldn't mind changing up.

Derrick Dockery - Sure, but I wouldn't lose any sleep if we decided to go another way at this position. Dock's great, but if he's asking too much, I don't think it's worth it.

[redskin_rich]

Lemar Marshall - I said yes, because he provides cheap, solid depth at all linebacker positions. I'm hoping for Patrick Willis to be a part of this team next year at Mike.


Unless we sign a vet free agent MLB, I don't see anybody replacing Lemar. I don't know if it is Williams or Lindsay but rookie LB's don't get any playing time here and if Rocky can't get any PT at the Will, I seriously doubt that any rookie would contribute at the Mike.

[skinsfan36]

Unless we sign a vet free agent MLB, I don't see anybody replacing Lemar. I don't know if it is Williams or Lindsay but rookie LB's don't get any playing time here and if Rocky can't get any PT at the Will, I seriously doubt that any rookie would contribute at the Mike.
gibbs needs to step in then because patrick willis would help this team alot. even h.b. bladesor buster davis would

[skinsfan36]

Unless we sign a vet free agent MLB, I don't see anybody replacing Lemar. I don't know if it is Williams or Lindsay but rookie LB's don't get any playing time here and if Rocky can't get any PT at the Will, I seriously doubt that any rookie would contribute at the Mike.
gibbs needs to step in then because patrick willis would help this team alot. even h.b. blades or buster davis would

[LATrueRedskin]

Unless we sign a vet free agent MLB, I don't see anybody replacing Lemar. I don't know if it is Williams or Lindsay but rookie LB's don't get any playing time here and if Rocky can't get any PT at the Will, I seriously doubt that any rookie would contribute at the Mike.

Which is pretty sad. I salivate at the thought of two young linebackers in McIntosh and Willis on the field together. We could really build around them, Sean Taylor, and Carlos Rogers (if he improves). Rocky must have no idea what he's doing in life if he can't get on the field for this defense.

[redskin_rich]

Which is pretty sad. I salivate at the thought of two young linebackers in McIntosh and Willis on the field together. We could really build around them, Sean Taylor, and Carlos Rogers (if he improves). Rocky must have no idea what he's doing in life if he can't get on the field for this defense.
Or his coaches are too rigid and don't know how to make the most out of his potential. I'm sensing a pattern here.

[LATrueRedskin]

Or his coaches are too rigid and don't know how to make the most out of his potential. I'm sensing a pattern here.

Oh, I agree. I was being sarchastic. Unless Holdman is injured, McIntosh won't see the field. That's pretty much how every one of our rookies sees the field (Taylor, Rogers, Golston, etc.).

[shally]

Oh, I agree. I was being sarchastic. Unless Holdman is injured, McIntosh won't see the field. That's pretty much how every one of our rookies sees the field (Taylor, Rogers, Golston, etc.).

i think with rogers and taylor it was only a matter of time before they were expected to take the position..golston was a very pleasant surprise

[LATrueRedskin]

i think with rogers and taylor it was only a matter of time before they were expected to take the position..golston was a very pleasant surprise

And you'd figure it was only a matter of time before McIntosh took the position. I fully expected him to start and have a bunch of games under his belt by now. A completely wasted opportunity.

[openallnight]

I want the missing 12th man back. I've been cruising the streets of No. VA searching high and low and he's nowhere to be found. I think some evil dallasian or philladelphian is behind this.