1st Round situation

[Agrawog]

I have been looking at some mock drafts recently and i am confused about one thing.. there is a notation saying the skins and broncos may swap 1st round picks depending on the difference in their value at draft time (= or less than a 3rd round pick point value).

Can anyone explain the situation to me? Should i root for the broncos to lose or win?

[Lavar703]

I have been looking at some mock drafts recently and i am confused about one thing.. there is a notation saying the skins and broncos may swap 1st round picks depending on the difference in their value at draft time (= or less than a 3rd round pick point value).

Can anyone explain the situation to me? Should i root for the broncos to lose or win?


We owe them a certain amount of draft points, exactly how many i dont remember, but the only way we would switch is if we were like 10 picks within eachother, beings that were most likely going to pick in the top ten or even the top 5, it will not happen, they will just get our third and maybe another pick, Akh may be able to explain it better

[FanFromArizona]

We owe them a certain amount of draft points, exactly how many i dont remember, but the only way we would switch is if we were like 10 picks within eachother, beings that were most likely going to pick in the top ten or even the top 5, it will not happen, they will just get our third and maybe another pick, Akh may be able to explain it better

260 points is what we owe Denver.

Denver sent Ashlie Lelie to Atlanta.
Atlanta sent TJ to us.
We owe Denver 260 points.

Swap of first rounders would occur if we are within 4 picks of each other, which is not going to happen.

Offseason will determine what will be done to satisfy the trade, and then the * will disappear.

[hogs86]

260 points is what we owe Denver.

Denver sent Ashlie Lelie to Atlanta.
Atlanta sent TJ to us.
We owe Denver 260 points.

Swap of first rounders would occur if we are within 4 picks of each other, which is not going to happen.

Offseason will determine what will be done to satisfy the trade, and then the * will disappear.



Can we send TJ Duckett back and call it even ?? :)

[FanFromArizona]

Can we send TJ Duckett back and call it even ?? :)


can I send my teenagers back and start over? :rolleyes:

[Meatsnack]

I have been looking at some mock drafts recently and i am confused about one thing.. there is a notation saying the skins and broncos may swap 1st round picks depending on the difference in their value at draft time (= or less than a 3rd round pick point value).

Can anyone explain the situation to me? Should i root for the broncos to lose or win?
You should vote for them to lose because they are knee-breaking sissies. What happens these last three weeks only makes Jake Plummer look better than their QB of the future. MUAH-Ha-Ha-Haaaaa! Plus, Shanahan is a Class A jerk. MHBIH.

[bigcmr]

I have heard many different things about this. But no defiant answer. I remember reading somewhere it said the only way we swap picks in the firsts round is if we pick at 21 or worse. But not too sure about that. If I can recall when this trade went down there were so many different trade scenarios the league almost didn't allow this trade to go throw. I have been hoping someone could get to the bottom of this some how. Because after such a bad year I would hate to loose a top ten pick.

[shally]

can I send my teenagers back and start over? :rolleyes:

hmmmmmm.. tempting... (mine, not yours...)

[csquared]

I have heard many different things about this. But no defiant answer. I remember reading somewhere it said the only way we swap picks in the firsts round is if we pick at 21 or worse. But not too sure about that. If I can recall when this trade went down there were so many different trade scenarios the league almost didn't allow this trade to go throw. I have been hoping someone could get to the bottom of this some how. Because after such a bad year I would hate to loose a top ten pick.
Well its obvious nobody will be able to get to the bottom of this until the season is over.

[silverspring]

I thought it was just a 3rd, a 3rd and a 4th both next year's?

[ryflan47]

I hate that we virtually rented TJ Duckett at the price of our draft. This only leads me to believe that we will trade down this year.

[JasonCampbell]

Yup, rented him for 16 games (was he even active all of them) and barely used him. And now that we actually use him, they are in situations I'd rather have Betts

[BurgundyNGold]

I hate that we virtually rented TJ Duckett at the price of our draft. This only leads me to believe that we will trade down this year.
He might be back next season. I don't ,think there will be a huge offseason market for him.

[akhhorus]

Supposedly, there's 96 different potential scenarios. We owe them 260 draft value points(the equivalent to a high 3rd round pick). We have to fulfill this. The most likely scenario is our 3rd rounder this year and perhaps our 7th. There are scenarios where we flip 1st rounders with them. It all depends on where the skins and Broncos end up drafting and how we work it out.

[shally]

Supposedly, there's 96 different potential scenarios. We owe them 260 draft value points(the equivalent to a high 3rd round pick). We have to fulfill this. The most likely scenario is our 3rd rounder this year and perhaps our 7th. There are scenarios where we flip 1st rounders with them. It all depends on where the skins and Broncos end up drafting and how we work it out.

yup.. there is no point in worrying about what happens because there is still too many variables at work.

i still would love to see a trade down scenario, but lots of time including the free agency period to see how this off season will shake out

[akhhorus]

yup.. there is no point in worrying about what happens because there is still too many variables at work.

i still would love to see a trade down scenario, but lots of time including the free agency period to see how this off season will shake out

Yeah exactly. However, if Denver sees a player available at our first that they just have to have, I would let them invoke the deal and let them add picks to their first to make it happen.

[shally]

Yeah exactly. However, if Denver sees a player available at our first that they just have to have, I would let them invoke the deal and let them add picks to their first to make it happen.

plus, i hope we can take a position or 2 off the table in free agency.. we look to have nice reserve o lineman in pucillo and wade. we need to resign them. corner and safety as well as MLB need to be addressed in free agency. that will likely leave the d line for the draft

[redskin_rich]

I don't think we will be giving up our 3rd straight up. It won't be the value of the 260 points that was part of the deal and the differential won't be enough to throw in the following year's 4th pick. This was considered the most likely scenario but it was under the belief that the Skins would be drafting somewhere between 15-25. As it is, we'll likely be drafting from the 5-10 position.

IMO, there are two scenarios that are most likely:
1. A swap of 1st round positions with Denver and the deal is done. No other compensation, so we would still have our 3rd round pick.
2. We engineer another trade, possibly a 3-way, that compensates Denver yet still leaves us with at least two first day picks.

Bottom line, draft day will be exciting for us, something will happen and we won't know until it does.

[shally]

I don't think we will be giving up our 3rd straight up. It won't be the value of the 260 points that was part of the deal and the differential won't be enough to throw in the following year's 4th pick. This was considered the most likely scenario but it was under the belief that the Skins would be drafting somewhere between 15-25. As it is, we'll likely be drafting from the 5-10 position.

IMO, there are two scenarios that are most likely:
1. A swap of 1st round positions with Denver and the deal is done. No other compensation, so we would still have our 3rd round pick.
2. We engineer another trade, possibly a 3-way, that compensates Denver yet still leaves us with at least two first day picks.

Bottom line, draft day will be exciting for us, something will happen and we won't know until it does.

another pathway.. trade down and then swap THAT pick with denver.. that way we keep our own third and still pick up another first day pick.. that would give us a full complement of 3 first day picks.. got to have them this year

[greatest2]

I don't think we will be giving up our 3rd straight up. It won't be the value of the 260 points that was part of the deal and the differential won't be enough to throw in the following year's 4th pick. This was considered the most likely scenario but it was under the belief that the Skins would be drafting somewhere between 15-25. As it is, we'll likely be drafting from the 5-10 position.

IMO, there are two scenarios that are most likely:
1. A swap of 1st round positions with Denver and the deal is done. No other compensation, so we would still have our 3rd round pick.
2. We engineer another trade, possibly a 3-way, that compensates Denver yet still leaves us with at least two first day picks.

Bottom line, draft day will be exciting for us, something will happen and we won't know until it does.

yea, i guess exciting is the word, cause i hope we don't get pushed out of a top ten pick with this stupid trade for duckett. could you imagin us passin up on a guy in that trade, and him havein a crazy career? sounds like our luck. Lets try and keep the first we will have, try and trade down maybe or somethin, but that high a first round pick is a must for this team, cause we have some holes that need to be filled with youth and talent

[shally]

yea, i guess exciting is the word, cause i hope we don't get pushed out of a top ten pick with this stupid trade for duckett. could you imagin us passin up on a guy in that trade, and him havein a crazy career? sounds like our luck. Lets try and keep the first we will have, try and trade down maybe or somethin, but that high a first round pick is a must for this team, cause we have some holes that need to be filled with youth and talent

we do NOT need a top 10 pick for this team.. we need 3 first day players who can come in and be role players next year and then develop into starters by 2008..

[redwolf1218]

we do NOT need a top 10 pick for this team.. we need 3 first day players who can come in and be role players next year and then develop into starters by 2008..
but that may not be the case after free agency.

[greatest2]

we do NOT need a top 10 pick for this team.. we need 3 first day players who can come in and be role players next year and then develop into starters by 2008..
i agree with you, but to have those 3 picks, you need to trade that top 10 first rounder right? well we can't do that if we have to give it to denver for there 15-25 or whatever.

so yea, i hope we retain our top 10 first rounder, give denver our 3 or whatever else to satisfy that dumb trade we made, and trade that top 10 into more picks on the first day. so i agree with you

[greatest2]

but that may not be the case after free agency.

yea your right, it also depends on how old the guys are in free agency that we get? we could get someone to understudy in the late first or second or even 3rd round, and let them learn (i.e. corner to learn under springs as an example).

[Biggie]

i agree with you, but to have those 3 picks, you need to trade that top 10 first rounder right? well we can't do that if we have to give it to denver for there 15-25 or whatever.

so yea, i hope we retain our top 10 first rounder, give denver our 3 or whatever else to satisfy that dumb trade we made, and trade that top 10 into more picks on the first day. so i agree with you

We don't have a three. Well, we do, but it's named T.J. Duckett and it sits on the bench.

[redskin_rich]

yea, i guess exciting is the word, cause i hope we don't get pushed out of a top ten pick with this stupid trade for duckett. could you imagin us passin up on a guy in that trade, and him havein a crazy career? sounds like our luck. Lets try and keep the first we will have, try and trade down maybe or somethin, but that high a first round pick is a must for this team, cause we have some holes that need to be filled with youth and talent
I would rather move out of the top ten and net more picks, myself. The odds of getting good players is always better with multiple picks versus a high pick. Not to mention the fact that the higher picks require a substantial investment and a miss can really do damage for many years.

[shally]

but that may not be the case after free agency.

we need to be developing quality depth all along the roster, so yes, we need 3 first day draft picks still

[redwolf1218]

we need to be developing quality depth all along the roster, so yes, we need 3 first day draft picks still
it still depends on what we get in free agency. i only say that because this team tends to fill needs in free agency, even at depth, and then go into the draft with only one or 2 places to fill, be that starters or (more likely) depth.

[shally]

i agree with you, but to have those 3 picks, you need to trade that top 10 first rounder right? well we can't do that if we have to give it to denver for there 15-25 or whatever.

so yea, i hope we retain our top 10 first rounder, give denver our 3 or whatever else to satisfy that dumb trade we made, and trade that top 10 into more picks on the first day. so i agree with you

we are not giving denver our pick, we are potentially swapping the pick.. we will still have a first rounder we can trade down with. then we can use that pick to trade to get more picks.

if we swap picks with denver we still have a 1,3.. that can be swapped as well.. we could end up with a low round 1 and 2 third rounders.. i would be okay with that as well

[shally]

it still depends on what we get in free agency. i only say that because this team tends to fill needs in free agency, even at depth, and then go into the draft with only one or 2 places to fill, be that starters or (more likely) depth.

up to this point we have mainly used free agency for starters (carter, arch, lloyd, ARE, fauria were all supposed to start.. wright was a reserve but first off the bench in nickle).. but getting depth is okay as well.
still, i think we need to re sign pucillo and wade

[greatest2]

we are not giving denver our pick, we are potentially swapping the pick.. we will still have a first rounder we can trade down with. then we can use that pick to trade to get more picks.

if we swap picks with denver we still have a 1,3.. that can be swapped as well.. we could end up with a low round 1 and 2 third rounders.. i would be okay with that as well
yea i understand we would switch, but i would rather not cause our top 10 pick will be valued much higher then there pick, and who knows, maybe somebody will have to have somebody and give us alot for that pick? i don't know, i just want to fill these holes with youth and talent, people who will be more then mercenaries, who will hopefully have loyalty, and want to fight for the skins

[shally]

yea i understand we would switch, but i would rather not cause our top 10 pick will be valued much higher then there pick, and who knows, maybe somebody will have to have somebody and give us alot for that pick? i don't know, i just want to fill these holes with youth and talent, people who will be more then mercenaries, who will hopefully have loyalty, and want to fight for the skins

betts certainly was one.. we will see how many others there are..

my point is simply that we need 3 quality players out of this draft and not one superb player and the rest busts... besides, the lower the first rounder, the more reasonable the contract will be and the more money we will have for free agents and re doing contracts..

[FanFromArizona]

I don't think we will be giving up our 3rd straight up. It won't be the value of the 260 points that was part of the deal and the differential won't be enough to throw in the following year's 4th pick. This was considered the most likely scenario but it was under the belief that the Skins would be drafting somewhere between 15-25. As it is, we'll likely be drafting from the 5-10 position.

IMO, there are two scenarios that are most likely:
1. A swap of 1st round positions with Denver and the deal is done. No other compensation, so we would still have our 3rd round pick.
2. We engineer another trade, possibly a 3-way, that compensates Denver yet still leaves us with at least two first day picks.

Bottom line, draft day will be exciting for us, something will happen and we won't know until it does.


We have to account for 260 points, here is a chart that can be used to calculate the possibilities:

nfl_draftpick_value.htm (http://www.fftoday.com/nfl/nfl_draftpick_value.htm)

If you look at the chart, and using stats based on today's standings, here's another possibility:

Redskins with pick 7 currently.
Jets in a tie with the 19th-23rd pick. Let's call it the 20th for argument sakes.

TRADE:

1[7] for 1[20], 2[20], 3 [20]
1500 for 850 + 380 + 170 = 1400

That would leave the Jets with 1[7] and 2[7]. We would send our 3[7] and 4 [2008] to Denver , would leave us with 3 first day picks and the Jets would have 2 high picks in the 1st and 2nd round.

We have traded with the Jets before, we do play them next year, I just dont know if they would be a willing trade partner for the deal. They were all over the trade during the trade for Rocky on draft day.

[redwolf1218]

up to this point we have mainly used free agency for starters (carter, arch, lloyd, ARE, fauria were all supposed to start.. wright was a reserve but first off the bench in nickle).. but getting depth is okay as well.
still, i think we need to re sign pucillo and wade
but we also signed depth like Pucillo, Wade, Rumph, Koz, Duckett, Yoder, Collins, Posey, maybe some others...

[shally]

We have to account for 260 points, here is a chart that can be used to calculate the possibilities:

nfl_draftpick_value.htm (http://www.fftoday.com/nfl/nfl_draftpick_value.htm)

If you look at the chart, and using stats based on today's standings, here's another possibility:

Redskins with pick 7 currently.
Jets in a tie with the 19th-23rd pick. Let's call it the 20th for argument sakes.

TRADE:

1[7] for 1[20], 2[20], 3 [20]
1500 for 850 + 380 + 170 = 1400

That would leave the Jets with 1[7] and 2[7]. We would send our 3[7] and 4 [2008] to Denver , would leave us with 3 first day picks and the Jets would have 2 high picks in the 1st and 2nd round.

We have traded with the Jets before, we do play them next year, I just dont know if they would be a willing trade partner for the deal. They were all over the trade during the trade for Rocky on draft day.

lots of possibilities and we do trade often with both the jets and denver.. something will break but it wont happen until draft day

[shally]

but we also signed depth like Pucillo, Wade, Rumph, Koz, Duckett, Yoder, Collins, Posey, maybe some others...

we traded for rumph.. he looks like a bust... we traded for TJ he was a poor trade

koz, yoder, collins, and posey are older players and i would prefer youth..

wade and pucillo while not young, would be worth re signing

[Redskin4Life]

We have to account for 260 points, here is a chart that can be used to calculate the possibilities:

nfl_draftpick_value.htm (http://www.fftoday.com/nfl/nfl_draftpick_value.htm)

If you look at the chart, and using stats based on today's standings, here's another possibility:

Redskins with pick 7 currently.
Jets in a tie with the 19th-23rd pick. Let's call it the 20th for argument sakes.

TRADE:

1[7] for 1[20], 2[20], 3 [20]
1500 for 850 + 380 + 170 = 1400

That would leave the Jets with 1[7] and 2[7]. We would send our 3[7] and 4 [2008] to Denver , would leave us with 3 first day picks and the Jets would have 2 high picks in the 1st and 2nd round.

We have traded with the Jets before, we do play them next year, I just dont know if they would be a willing trade partner for the deal. They were all over the trade during the trade for Rocky on draft day.
Honestly, I don't want to give up our high draft pick unless we get at least two firsts for it..

[FanFromArizona]

lots of possibilities and we do trade often with both the jets and denver.. something will break but it wont happen until draft day


curious what you think of my idea......if the hypothetical trade were to occur.... I think we could get what we need on the defensive side of the ball if we were to get the 1[20], 2[20], and 3[20] picks in the draft.

[FanFromArizona]

Honestly, I don't want to give up our high draft pick unless we get at least two firsts for it..

that type of trade would be hard to consummate unless of course you'e talking about trading with New England this year for their two firsts. New England likes their draft picks.

Getting two first rounders will be difficult. Plus we don't absolutely need 2 1st rounders, we need 3 draft picks.

Lastly as the trading team we would have to give something up in the process (that is where the 100 points goes).

[shally]

that type of trade would be hard to consummate unless of course you'e talking about trading with New England this year for their two firsts. New England likes their draft picks.

Getting two first rounders will be difficult. Plus we don't absolutely need 2 1st rounders, we need 3 draft picks.

Lastly as the trading team we would have to give something up in the process (that is where the 100 points goes).

we are not likely enough to get a high enough pick to get the pats 2 first rounders.. then they do not like to trade their first rounders as was pointed out.
and the cost of a low first round contract is still a lot higher than a high second rounder..

i will take any scenario that leaves us with a full complement of 3 first day picks no matter where inthe round they end up

[redskin_rich]

We have to account for 260 points, here is a chart that can be used to calculate the possibilities:

nfl_draftpick_value.htm (http://www.fftoday.com/nfl/nfl_draftpick_value.htm)

If you look at the chart, and using stats based on today's standings, here's another possibility:

Redskins with pick 7 currently.
Jets in a tie with the 19th-23rd pick. Let's call it the 20th for argument sakes.

TRADE:

1[7] for 1[20], 2[20], 3 [20]
1500 for 850 + 380 + 170 = 1400

That would leave the Jets with 1[7] and 2[7]. We would send our 3[7] and 4 [2008] to Denver , would leave us with 3 first day picks and the Jets would have 2 high picks in the 1st and 2nd round.

We have traded with the Jets before, we do play them next year, I just dont know if they would be a willing trade partner for the deal. They were all over the trade during the trade for Rocky on draft day.
LOL, I love your creativity but I don't think the Jets would do that. They are the ones that have received more picks in all of our trades.
I gave my vague speculation on how we handle the draft, with the comp owed to Denver but I am not even going to begin speculating exact trade scenarios until the final weeks leading up to the draft.

[shally]

curious what you think of my idea......if the hypothetical trade were to occur.... I think we could get what we need on the defensive side of the ball if we were to get the 1[20], 2[20], and 3[20] picks in the draft.

i would take that deal in a heartbeat... i do not think that playing a team is any impediment to a draft day trade.. we have traded with dallas before on draft day.. only if 2 teams are after the same player inthe same round is it a problem..or if you are trading with a shark like al davis..

[shally]

LOL, I love your creativity but I don't think the Jets would do that. They are the ones that have received more picks in all of our trades.
I gave my vague speculation on how we handle the draft, with the comp owed to Denver but I am not even going to begin speculating exact trade scenarios until the final weeks leading up to the draft.

agree.. first we have to see what holes we fill in march.. then you have to wait for draft day anyway to see what trades will develop

[FanFromArizona]

i would take that deal in a heartbeat... i do not think that playing a team is any impediment to a draft day trade.. we have traded with dallas before on draft day.. only if 2 teams are after the same player inthe same round is it a problem..or if you are trading with a shark like al davis..

I was alluding to the fact that I would hate to have the 1st and 2nd rounder player selected by the Jets, using our pick, to come back to hurt us.

[redwolf1218]

it would not surprise me if we win out now, because that would be the worst thing to do. play the starters, win these games, and hurt our draft position. it's a problem that the nfl is set up so that winning now while out of playoff contention really hurts the team for next year.

[shally]

it would not surprise me if we win out now, because that would be the worst thing to do. play the starters, win these games, and hurt our draft position. it's a problem that the nfl is set up so that winning now while out of playoff contention really hurts the team for next year.

there is no downside to winning out.. give campbell a winning record as a starter and really get the team juiced for the off season

[whitskins]

there is no downside to winning out.. give campbell a winning record as a starter and really get the team juiced for the off season

I agree, Campbell winning his last three games and going 4-3 off the bench for us would be huge for his confidence and the rest of the teams. Who cares about draft position right now, there are still games to be played and I want to win them. If the team feels any differently then they will never get this losing culture turned around.

[FanFromArizona]

LOL, I love your creativity but I don't think the Jets would do that. They are the ones that have received more picks in all of our trades.
I gave my vague speculation on how we handle the draft, with the comp owed to Denver but I am not even going to begin speculating exact trade scenarios until the final weeks leading up to the draft.

well considering the Jets are on the improve they might just want that SUPERSTUD this year and might be willing to do the trade for a chance to get two STUDS. 1[7] and 2[7] will give them that.

Assessing their situation, they have good young receivers(Coles and Cotchery), a running back by committee that is also young (Barlow and Washington), a stable QB situation with a declining Pennington and a 2nd round draft pick in K Clemens, they helped themselves NICELY with their draft last year and a chance to get very high draft picks might send them over the top in the AFC East next year.
They did give the Patriots a good game both times, and a few studs is what they need to put them over the top I think.

[shally]

I agree, Campbell winning his last three games and going 4-3 off the bench for us would be huge for his confidence and the rest of the teams. Who cares about draft position right now, there are still games to be played and I want to win them. If the team feels any differently then they will never get this losing culture turned around.

plus, there are guys playing for jobs out there now.. guys like pucillo, wade, fox, who are eithe r playing for a job here or auditioning for a job elsewhere.
this is far from garbage time right now

[redskin_rich]

If I ever, ever found out that my team was tanking games for any reason, I would end my fanship of that team forever. I don't care what the record is, I want to win every week. Losing is never acceptable, under any circumstances.

[redwolf1218]

i get what yall are saying about "the team" and Campbell's "confidence" but right now, in the big picture, it would be best to lose for the draft position.

i'm not suggesting to tank the games, but rather, to play guys like Rocky instead of Holdman, and Campbell instead of Brunell, etc.

this is the preseason for next year.

[FanFromArizona]

i get what yall are saying about "the team" and Campbell's "confidence" but right now, in the big picture, it would be best to lose for the draft position.


we need to play with desire and passion and let the results fall as they may.
I agree with Rich, I would not stand it as a fan if I found out that we were tanking games for a better draft position.

we dont have a lack of talent, we have enough studs, we need a few key positional players, build the chemistry and destroy the overconfidence factor, we should rip off a tremendous record next year with a #4 schedule.

[redwolf1218]

we need to play with desire and passion and let the results fall as they may.
I agree with Rich, I would not stand it as a fan if I found out that we were tanking games for a better draft position.

we dont have a lack of talent, we have enough studs, we need a few key positional players, build the chemistry and destroy the overconfidence factor, we should rip off a tremendous record next year with a #4 schedule.
i agree about desire and passion, but with the younger players included. playing Holdman over Rocky now is retarded, as would be playing Brunell over Campbell. winning now does not help in the big picture. i said before, if you read my post, i'm not in for tanking, but i'm not in for playing old has-beens in place of younger players when the playoffs are out of the question and draft position is also at stake. it would be retarded to play old players on one-year deals right now, while young players sit on the bench.

[FanFromArizona]

i agree about desire and passion, but with the younger players included. playing Holdman over Rocky now is retarded, as would be playing Brunell over Campbell. winning now does not help in the big picture. i said before, if you read my post, i'm not in for tanking, but i'm not in for playing old has-beens in place of younger players when the playoffs are out of the question and draft position is also at stake. it would be retarded to play old players on one-year deals right now, while young players sit on the bench.


I fully agree that at this juncture in our season that getting game experience for our youthful players (READ: players of our future) supersedes the need to posting a "W". I think we are all in agreement that we want the youth to get the experience and to play 60 minutes of Redskin-style football, play with desire and hope for the best with a "W" at the end of the day.

[redwolf1218]

I fully agree that at this juncture in our season that getting game experience for our youthful players (READ: players of our future) supersedes the need to posting a "W". I think we are all in agreement that we want the youth to get the experience and to play 60 minutes of Redskin-style football, play with desire and hope for the best with a "W" at the end of the day.
thank you. exactly what i'm saying. playing old guys on one-year contracts like Holdman, instead of Rocky, right now, is detremental to the team in the long run. i dont care about a "win" right now with the old has-beens, as it doesnt matter anymore. if we play the young guys and get a win, then that's great. if we play the young guys and lose, that's also great for the future of the team and the experience those young guys will gain.

[shally]

thank you. exactly what i'm saying. playing old guys on one-year contracts like Holdman, instead of Rocky, right now, is detremental to the team in the long run. i dont care about a "win" right now with the old has-beens, as it doesnt matter anymore. if we play the young guys and get a win, then that's great. if we play the young guys and lose, that's also great for the future of the team and the experience those young guys will gain.

we can chew the rocky-holdman situation as much as we wish to and it will never come out logical...

[Patrick]

Yeah exactly. However, if Denver sees a player available at our first that they just have to have, I would let them invoke the deal and let them add picks to their first to make it happen.

This is exactly what I think will happen - Denver will make the playoff but will be exposed badly in one or two areas. They'll want to address this in the draft and we'll be sitting to good enough position to accommodate them. ……………. We swap #1s and they gives us their #3 or #4. Works for me!

[hail2skins]

it would not surprise me if we win out now, because that would be the worst thing to do. play the starters, win these games, and hurt our draft position. it's a problem that the nfl is set up so that winning now while out of playoff contention really hurts the team for next year.Red, what kind of logic is this? Do you think teams should tank games so they can get a better draft pick?

[hail2skins]

i get what yall are saying about "the team" and Campbell's "confidence" but right now, in the big picture, it would be best to lose for the draft position.

i'm not suggesting to tank the games, but rather, to play guys like Rocky instead of Holdman, and Campbell instead of Brunell, etc.

this is the preseason for next year.Are you serious? You are suggesting that games be tanked no matter how you try to hide it. Unbelievable.

[Hr fan]

we do NOT need a top 10 pick for this team.. we need 3 first day players who can come in and be role players next year and then develop into starters by 2008..

One problem ... Gibbs doesn't play rookies (witness McIntosh)

[CNYSkinFan]

One problem ... Gibbs doesn't play rookies (witness McIntosh)
Rocky actually got some series work yesterdayt, most I saw all year, and did very well when he was in. I hope he continues to get more looks each game.

[Redskin4Life]

This is exactly what I think will happen - Denver will make the playoff but will be exposed badly in one or two areas. They'll want to address this in the draft and we'll be sitting to good enough position to accommodate them. ……………. We swap #1s and they gives us their #3 or #4. Works for me!
Is that one of the scenarios? That if we don't have a top 10 pick, we could swap picks and THEY would give us MORE picks to get to the required 260pts???

[redwolf1218]

Are you serious? You are suggesting that games be tanked no matter how you try to hide it. Unbelievable.
if you read my posts, you will see that i said "dont tank the games".

my logic is give guys like Rocky some valuable experience. winning now with Holdman in there is not logical.

[akhhorus]

This is exactly what I think will happen - Denver will make the playoff but will be exposed badly in one or two areas. They'll want to address this in the draft and we'll be sitting to good enough position to accommodate them. ……………. We swap #1s and they gives us their #3 or #4. Works for me!

If we're dealing from the top 7 to the 18-20 range, we'll get more than a 3rd and a 4th.

[skinsfan36]

If we're dealing from the top 7 to the 18-20 range, we'll get more than a 3rd and a 4th.
yeah that would probably warrant a 2nd rounder

[hail2skins]

if you read my posts, you will see that i said "dont tank the games".

my logic is give guys like Rocky some valuable experience. winning now with Holdman in there is not logical.Red, you started off by saying the NFL is setup to hurt teams that aren't in the playoffs. You don't want us to lose a high draft pick by winning even though we're out. That's what you said basically. I can understand playing Rocky and others but that wasn't your premise.

[redwolf1218]

Red, you started off by saying the NFL is setup to hurt teams that aren't in the playoffs. You don't want us to lose a high draft pick by winning even though we're out. That's what you said basically. I can understand playing Rocky and others but that wasn't your premise.
and i stand by that.

[skinsfan36]

i agree we need to sign pucillo,wade.wade is 28 i believe or 29 and pucillo is only in his 4th or 5th year so hes probably about 28. these guys are good depth if we resign them,we have whitley next year and i hear he was a decent backup at denver. and if we resign dock then in the offseason we would only need a blocking tight end,and maybe 1 olineman for depth. and our offense stays the same. that ay we can focus on drafting defensive depth in the draft. since you can get a blocking tight end as an udfa and an ideal sitituation would be to sign harvey or pino off of the eagles or ravens ps before week 17 and cut someone like koz or rumph. then we may be covered on offense completly. we will probably tarde down which means we will have like 3 first day picks we can pick a corner,a safety,a dlineman,or a mlb. we will probably address atleast 2 of those needs in free agency. the draft is strong on the dline,and at mlb,and pairing taylor with any of these 3 first 2 rd safetys landry,griffin,nelson,merriweather would be scary for any offense.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Although I agree it is necessary to get young guys who deserve it, and who will be asked to perform next year valuable playing playing experience, in the NFL, I think you win as many as you can and not worry about the draft until the offseason. It is far too often that the 21st player chosen is a better pro than the 4th player chosen, and that's not even getting into all of the later round finds. Drafting is so inexact that I don't think it much matters what position you draft from.

[PennSkinsFan]

Ending strong gives momentum for next season and shows they may possibly have reached the comfort point in the system. I wanna see us trade down anyway. We need additional picks.

[VegasSkinsFan]

I am pretty sure i am not the only person who fears this possibly happening. The FO, wont get a trade down, then 'brilliantly' trade some future picks to get a 2nd this year.

[Redskin4Life]

i agree we need to sign pucillo,wade.wade is 28 i believe or 29 and pucillo is only in his 4th or 5th year so hes probably about 28. these guys are good depth if we resign them,we have whitley next year and i hear he was a decent backup at denver. and if we resign dock then in the offseason we would only need a blocking tight end,and maybe 1 olineman for depth. and our offense stays the same. that ay we can focus on drafting defensive depth in the draft. since you can get a blocking tight end as an udfa and an ideal sitituation would be to sign harvey or pino off of the eagles or ravens ps before week 17 and cut someone like koz or rumph. then we may be covered on offense completly. we will probably tarde down which means we will have like 3 first day picks we can pick a corner,a safety,a dlineman,or a mlb. we will probably address atleast 2 of those needs in free agency. the draft is strong on the dline,and at mlb,and pairing taylor with any of these 3 first 2 rd safetys landry,griffin,nelson,merriweather would be scary for any offense.
I think Pucillo is being used now as a blocking TE so we would need one more lineman if we sign Dock, Whitley and Wade (today's Post article said he was 30). A backup C-G would be good (follows your Pino and Harvey endorsements).

As for free agency, I'd like to think we're getting Clements AND Smoot (I think he'd be great depth here and only playing as the 3 or 4 CB... smallish contract).

So if what Patrick and Akh are saying is true, then we would probably get to trade down with Denver to their pick and get their 3 and 4 or possibly their 2nd. That would give us three first day picks for DE, Oline and CB. I'd like a stud DE, a promising prospect at CB and a monster at OT.. the later picks should be the usual (LBs and Linemen -- both sides).

Although, I don't think we necessarily need a Mike since I think Rocky will be taking that over next year and move Marshall to Will while our youths get some time to learn. I would like to think that one of the 10-12 LBs we brought in last year can play for us at Will next year or maybe Simon can play at Mike and we'd have nothing to worry about (got a lot of praise in the preseason at Middle and is at home probably rehabing).

I think bringing in Smoot and Clements gives us a secondary that would be arguably the best in the league with SSprings at SSafety with Taylor. PP off the bench.

That would brings us to the AA problem... trade him to Chicago for a first day pick or just keep him here (rather get someone good for the cap hit we would take by trading him).

[hail2skins]

and i stand by that.So, you want us to lose to have a better draft pick? Right

[Dolla Bill]

I can understand the momentum and going into next season, but what happened to the momentum from last season? Winning 5 in a row, getting into the playoffs, winning a playoff game on the road, and almost getting to the championship game? That should of been a ton of momentum, and we shot ourselves in the foot. Momentum can only go so far.

[shally]

I can understand the momentum and going into next season, but what happened to the momentum from last season? Winning 5 in a row, getting into the playoffs, winning a playoff game on the road, and almost getting to the championship game? That should of been a ton of momentum, and we shot ourselves in the foot. Momentum can only go so far.


i think on offense we wrecked it by bringing in AS and having that disastrous pre season on offense. the defense carried the team at the end of last year, and any momentum the offense might have had was lost learning a new system and with portis getting injured

defense got old and GW insanely wanted arch to complete his defense.. some real poor judgement there, although carter has turned out to be a solid pickup after all

[SkinsfaninNJ]

i think on offense we wrecked it by bringing in AS and having that disastrous pre season on offense. the defense carried the team at the end of last year, and any momentum the offense might have had was lost learning a new system and with portis getting injured

defense got old and GW insanely wanted arch to complete his defense.. some real poor judgement there, although carter has turned out to be a solid pickup after all
Also add the Springs injury to that list. It is now obvious to me that GW changed the way he coached when Springs was out. This defense has improved dramatically over the last few games. Think about this, a few weeks ago, we were ranked 30th on D, after the rankings come out this week, we may be as high as 20th (after being 23rd going into the game). Depending on how things go, it would not be unfathomable for this D to move up to 17 or so by the end of the season. That's sick.

[redwolf1218]

So, you want us to lose to have a better draft pick? Right
that is correct. that's how the NFL is set up and i believe it is flawed somehow, although i have no suggestions as to how that could be improved. winning now while playing old players rather than giving young players valuable experience even at the expense of a loss would be irrational. we are not going to make the playoffs so we will only deprive our young players of that experience and hurt our draft position.

[shally]

that is correct. that's how the NFL is set up and i believe it is flawed somehow, although i have no suggestions as to how that could be improved. winning now while playing old players rather than giving young players valuable experience even at the expense of a loss would be irrational. we are not going to make the playoffs so we will only deprive our young players of that experience and hurt our draft position.

i am not so sure we would lose any more games by playing young players on defense now

[shally]

Also add the Springs injury to that list. It is now obvious to me that GW changed the way he coached when Springs was out. This defense has improved dramatically over the last few games. Think about this, a few weeks ago, we were ranked 30th on D, after the rankings come out this week, we may be as high as 20th (after being 23rd going into the game). Depending on how things go, it would not be unfathomable for this D to move up to 17 or so by the end of the season. That's sick.


if that is so, then williams deserves a lot of fault for allowing the defense to fall apart without springs.. cmon, 1 player is not that important.. chicago has lot 4 starters off their defense and is still the number 1 seed.

GW has under produced this entire season

[whitskins]

that is correct. that's how the NFL is set up and i believe it is flawed somehow, although i have no suggestions as to how that could be improved. winning now while playing old players rather than giving young players valuable experience even at the expense of a loss would be irrational. we are not going to make the playoffs so we will only deprive our young players of that experience and hurt our draft position.

You're complicating your position by bringing up the younger and older players. You either want the team to win its last two games or you want them to lose them.

The only player you mention should be playing more is Rocky. If Rocky starts then that is hardly a sure sign that we will lose the next two games. You yourself have claimed that GW and the defensive coaches are retarded for not playing Rocky, so I can only assume that you believe playing him would give us a better chance of winning, which seems to conflict with your desire for us to lose in order to gain a higher draft slot.

So, when the Redskins are playing this coming Sunday, will you be rooting for them to win or lose?

Personally, I don't care where we draft. I would rather our team show heart and guts and prove that they are more talented than the bottom feeder we have seen for most of the year. I'd rather have a team that proves itself to be average and winds up picking in the mid first round than a team that proves itself to be terrible and picks in the top five. One top five player isn't going to revolutionize a terrible team by himself. Also, the player taken at either position could still be a bust just as easily. All I care about is that the Skins get a first round pick who can help improve the team immediately. Where he's drafted means little to me.

[hail2skins]

that is correct. that's how the NFL is set up and i believe it is flawed somehow, although i have no suggestions as to how that could be improved. winning now while playing old players rather than giving young players valuable experience even at the expense of a loss would be irrational. we are not going to make the playoffs so we will only deprive our young players of that experience and hurt our draft position.Ok, let me get this straight. You don't want us to tank but you want us to lose so we'll get a bette draft pick. You also want us to play younger guys and not older guys. You probably feel the younger guys will give us a better chance at losing while gaining experience. You'll say yes to that but your whole theory is that you really want the younger guys playing so we can lose because of their lack of experience and get the better draft pick. Red, I'm not even going to describe that logic the way I want to. I would have to ban myself.

[redwolf1218]

So, when the Redskins are playing this coming Sunday, will you be rooting for them to win or lose?


i will be hoping we lose.

[hail2skins]

i will be hoping we lose.One question Red, how many high draft picks have been busts? The draft is a crap shoot. YOu can get lucky or you can lose. Your logic dictates we should forego winning games and get some form of momentum and confidence for next year. Instead, you want us to lose so that we can gamble on the draft. I sure hope you're going to be watching the game alone.

[RedskinsDave]

I'd rather they play as hard as they can and win. If they play as hard as they can and lose it means we are as bad as our record. If we play hard and win it means something is right in a season where so much has been wrong.

Also, I don't trust anyone in Ashburn to make the picks so I'd rather have a little joy from a meaningless win than a draft pick a few slots higher.

[redwolf1218]

One question Red, how many high draft picks have been busts? The draft is a crap shoot. YOu can get lucky or you can lose. Your logic dictates we should forego winning games and get some form of momentum and confidence for next year. Instead, you want us to lose so that we can gamble on the draft. I sure hope you're going to be watching the game alone.
last year going into this year showed me what "momentum" can do. honestly i dont think momentum carries over an entire offseason, especially now with free agency.

it is unfortunate but true...the fact is, it would be better to lose out when the team is eliminated from playoff contention. we beat a great team on a last second deflection in the end zone this past Sunday. the team should know now that our system is something they can believe in.

i hope to see young players and/or backups play in a loss from here on out.