Brunell Out 4-5 Months After Surgery

[hogs86]

Mark Brunell was hurt during game two against Dallas.Please coach Gibbs do not bring him back.:)

Link http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/08/AR2007010801404.html

[shally]

Mark Brunell was hurt during game two against Dallas.Please coach Gibbs do not bring him back.:)

Link http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/08/AR2007010801404.html

welll.... we already knew he was no drew brees... might be the final impetus to retire

[Jon Jansen is money]

I'd welcome him back as a backup at a reduced salary.

[Fathead]

I see no reason not to have him back in a backup role.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I'd welcome him back as a backup at a reduced salary.
I agree, and sounds like he will be full strength by training camp. I would feel comfortable with him in the game if something where to happen...never mind I'm superstituous.

[ryflan47]

Mark, meet the clipboard.

[skinsfan36]

man mcintosh had another knee surgery ahh

[skinsfan36]

if we can work something out with brunells contract and get samuels to restrucure then we can resign dock,fox,pucillo. then restructure and cut to sign defensive players

[Oregonian]

Mark Brunell was hurt during game two against Dallas.Please coach Gibbs do not bring him back.:)

Link http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/08/AR2007010801404.html

Yeah we all know that QBs can't come back after shoulder surgery.

Like Brees and Pennington.

[silverspring]

i would welcome back mark as a backup, nothing more. However, i wonder if mark is really a good candidate for a backup considering he never really seemed to figure out saunders system. And will his arm get weaker because of this?

[shally]

i would welcome back mark as a backup, nothing more. However, i wonder if mark is really a good candidate for a backup considering he never really seemed to figure out saunders system. And will his arm get weaker because of this?

uncertain of the result of this surgery.. just have to wait and see

with an off season i think he would be able to absorb the system-- but being able to implement it is another...

[70chip-on-1]

I'll give a few reasons why I wouldn't bring him back..

He'll be one year older with a surgically repaired gimpy arm.
Al Saunders doesn't like him.
Lockeroom percieves him as one of Gibb's untouchable pets.
and generally season tix holders have seen enough of him.

Maybe we could sign Ramsey to the practice squad for pennies when he's cut later this year. HA!

[PyroGenic]

I'll give a few reasons why I wouldn't bring him back..

He'll be one year older with a surgically repaired gimpy arm.
Al Saunders doesn't like him.
Lockeroom percieves him as one of Gibb's untouchable pets.
and generally season tix holders have seen enough of him.

Maybe we could sign Ramsey to the practice squad for pennies when he's cut later this year. HA!


I know you were joking but Ramsey is inelligible for the practice squad... you seem to know a lot about coach and player perceptions.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

If he is willing to take a pay cut then he can come back..but no way we should be paying a 36YO backup Qb the kind of money he is making now.

[whitskins]

If I was Brunell no amount of money could get me to come back to this team after the fans embarrassed themselves by booing him as he walked onto the field to take over for a series after Campbell was knocked out in the Giants game.

For better or worse, Brunell was a Redskin and gave 100% to the team no matter what the circumstances. Plenty of fans treated him like dirt and he never responded with anything but respect and class. I'd love to have him back as a backup at a backup pricetag, but I wouldn't blame him at all if he wanted to get as far away from this fanbase as possible after the way he has been treated.

[WRSK1NS]

If I was Brunell no amount of money could get me to come back to this team after the fans embarrassed themselves by booing him as he walked onto the field to take over for a series after Campbell was knocked out in the Giants game.

For better or worse, Brunell was a Redskin and gave 100% to the team no matter what the circumstances. Plenty of fans treated him like dirt and he never responded with anything but respect and class. I'd love to have him back as a backup at a backup pricetag, but I wouldn't blame him at all if he wanted to get as far away from this fanbase as possible after the way he has been treated.

Well said, he definitly did not deserve to be booed, especially in that situation! I would welcome him back as the back up and pull as hard as I could for him should he ever have to go in. Get well soon Mark....

[dukeuch]

To be a decent guy, I hope his surgery goes well. As a Redskin fan, I could care less if he is back with us or not, but if he is, I'll reiterate what others have said here, he needs to sing a smaller contract. His was another example of us paying way too much for too little, even when he was our starter

[NCskinsfanatic]

Well I hope Mark recovers soon, I've always been one of his biggest supporters here and would welcome him back as the backup...witha lot lower cap #. The most troubling part of the article for me was the part that said Dockery and the Redskins were no where close to a new deal.

[GolfFreak]

Yeah, I'm on the side of DON'T bring him back. How about an injury settlement for this and he'll be off the books for good - is that doable?

Also - anyone pickup on the comments about not bringing back Holdmand or Wright? Good news IMO!

[smoak]

The booing of Brunell sickened me, and I hope Mark doesn't come back b/c Skins fans are a bunch of drunken jerks. We don't deserve a guy who is going leave everything on the field for his team.

I just hope he doesn't go to a team in the East.... sadly, not b/c of his ability, but b/c of his knowledge.

[gibbs4pres]

If I was Brunell no amount of money could get me to come back to this team after the fans embarrassed themselves by booing him as he walked onto the field to take over for a series after Campbell was knocked out in the Giants game.

For better or worse, Brunell was a Redskin and gave 100% to the team no matter what the circumstances. Plenty of fans treated him like dirt and he never responded with anything but respect and class. I'd love to have him back as a backup at a backup pricetag, but I wouldn't blame him at all if he wanted to get as far away from this fanbase as possible after the way he has been treated.

Agreed 100%

[hail2skins]

If I was Brunell no amount of money could get me to come back to this team after the fans embarrassed themselves by booing him as he walked onto the field to take over for a series after Campbell was knocked out in the Giants game.

For better or worse, Brunell was a Redskin and gave 100% to the team no matter what the circumstances. Plenty of fans treated him like dirt and he never responded with anything but respect and class. I'd love to have him back as a backup at a backup pricetag, but I wouldn't blame him at all if he wanted to get as far away from this fanbase as possible after the way he has been treated.What he said. I believe Brunell already restructured to help resign Betts too.

[Spence]

Brunell is a good guy and the booing of him in week 17 was a disgrace to all Redskins fans. Inexcusable. Here's my problem with bringing Brunell back at any salary: Gibbs loves him. I think Gibbs loves him beyond reason and would love an opportunity to put him back in a game. You might be thinking that's impossible, but I don't think so. I think Campbell's position is precarious as long as Brunell is on the team. Young quarterback's often go thru slumps. [Look at Eli, he's had 8-week-long slumps the last two seasons.] I don't want Brunell back in there just because Jason Campbell hits a bad patch for a couple of weeks.

Just say no to Brunell.

[Dolla Bill]

I do wish Mark a speedy and safe recovery. I always have liked Brunell as a person, his play was eratic here and there, but overall he has done what has been asked of him. It was a damn shame when the fans booed as he came into the game. Even though some players say it doesn't bother them, its still there in the back of their mind. Get well soon Mark.

[gibbs4pres]

To be a decent guy, I hope his surgery goes well. As a Redskin fan, I could care less if he is back with us or not, but if he is, I'll reiterate what others have said here, he needs to sing a smaller contract. His was another example of us paying way too much for too little, even when he was our starter

Go root for another team. You obviously have no idea on what makes a great player. Gibbs does though. As Smoak stated earlier, the Redskins fans this year don't deserve a player of his standards. Mark gave everything as a Redskin and I for one hope he does come back, as a back-up and restructued.
Thank you Mark for giving us your all.

[gibbs4pres]

Brunell is a good guy and the booing of him in week 17 was a disgrace to all Redskins fans. Inexcusable. Here's my problem with bringing Brunell back at any salary: Gibbs loves him. I think Gibbs loves him beyond reason and would love an opportunity to put him back in a game. You might be thinking that's impossible, but I don't think so. I think Campbell's position is precarious as long as Brunell is on the team. Young quarterback's often go thru slumps. [Look at Eli, he's had 8-week-long slumps the last two seasons.] I don't want Brunell back in there just because Jason Campbell hits a bad patch for a couple of weeks.

Just say no to Brunell.

Have to disagree here. I think that Gibbs knows exactly what he has in Brunell. Gibbs wants the best chance to win and I don't think that Gibbs thinks Brunell can last a whole season. He may spell Jason for a few to get his head in the right spot, but I think from here on out Gibbs man is Campbell.
He moved up to pick him and is just bringing him along. Youth for ability and Vet for smarts. Good duo if you ask me. But who knows.

[BIGSEF3]

injury settlement anyone?

[redskin_rich]

The Skins don't have the cap space to give John Hall an injury settlement, they darn sure can't do it with Brunell. Injury settlements guarantee a large portion of the salary (2/3rds I believe), they are for lower tier players as a way they can take some pocket change with them, they are not a get out of jail free card for high priced players.

Like it or not, Brunell will be here. He will likely do another restructure and he has been treated like garbage from the fanbase ever since he has been in DC, so the latest ugly act by Redskins fans probably didn't phase him.

[openallnight]

If I was Brunell no amount of money could get me to come back to this team after the fans embarrassed themselves by booing him as he walked onto the field to take over for a series after Campbell was knocked out in the Giants game.


I think they were chanting BRUUUUUNELL. Just like when Cooley catches a pass it sounds like boos.

[LATrueRedskin]

If I was Brunell no amount of money could get me to come back to this team after the fans embarrassed themselves by booing him as he walked onto the field to take over for a series after Campbell was knocked out in the Giants game.

For better or worse, Brunell was a Redskin and gave 100% to the team no matter what the circumstances. Plenty of fans treated him like dirt and he never responded with anything but respect and class. I'd love to have him back as a backup at a backup pricetag, but I wouldn't blame him at all if he wanted to get as far away from this fanbase as possible after the way he has been treated.

Well said. I wouldn't have anything to say if Brunell had any harsh words for the fans when he left, but he has far too much class to do that.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

The irony of the Brunell situation is that he was statistically better this year than last year. I don't want to get into the whole he didn't throw downfield enough or take chances, etc. debtate. Its all been beat to death. I'm sure I'm not going out on a limb saying we are all happy JC is playing, but people booed Brunell like he was this awful player this year, and that just was not the case.

[guinness4health]

Mark, meet the clipboard.

bingo....(with a big time restructure)

[hail2skins]

I think they were chanting BRUUUUUNELL. Just like when Cooley catches a pass it sounds like boos.No, they were boos. Loud and Clear.

I'm kinda rethinking this as well. Spence has a good argument. We don't need Jason looking over his shoulders knowing Brunell is there and how much Gibbs loves him. Also, what does it say about a coach who rather a play an injured QB over two healthy ones. Gibbs just lost some kudos from my on that alone. A shoulder injury to QB is big even if it isn't his throwing arm.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

No, they were boos. Loud and Clear.

I'm kinda rethinking this as well. Spence has a good argument. We don't need Jason looking over his shoulders knowing Brunell is there and how much Gibbs loves him. Also, what does it say about a coach who rather a play an injured QB over two healthy ones. Gibbs just lost some kudos from my on that alone. A shoulder injury to QB is big even if it isn't his throwing arm.
I think your and Spense's point is valid, but here is my question, if something happens to JC and we need another QB, is there anyone else out there you would rather have than Brunell? The guy clearer knows the system and more or less played well enough to win most of the games he was in this year. I want JC comfortable with his role on the team also, but if something where to happen (notice I refuse to say the "I" word), I want to win ballgames as well.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I think your and Spense's point is valid, but here is my question, if something happens to JC and we need another QB, is there anyone else out there you would rather have than Brunell? The guy clearer knows the system and more or less played well enough to win most of the games he was in this year. I want JC comfortable with his role on the team also, but if something where to happen (notice I refuse to say the "I" word), I want to win ballgames as well.
Considering that he will be 37 when the season starts next year, that he will be a 15 year veteran, that he will be coming off of shoulder surgery..yeah, there are a couple of names that I would be more comfortable with. But if he stays as the backup, at a backup salary, and Gibbs does not get the urge to put him in after JC's first 2 interceptiong ame, then that's all right with me I guess.

[CNYSkinFan]

If I did the figures right, it would be a 2 million Cap savings if we cut Brunell and opnly a 1.25 millions savings if we cut Collins. I personally think they are battling for the same spot (#2). I am more comfortable with Brunell at #2 then a guy who has only attempted 37 more passes then I have in the NFl. I think Casey Bramlet and a yet to be signed UFA will battle for the #3 spot.

If I trusted our Front Office I would say cut both and use the cap savings to find a decent former starter turned backup to be behind JC (Like Garcia in Philly) to take JC's place only in case of injury.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

If I did the figures right, it would be a 2 million Cap savings if we cut Brunell and opnly a 1.25 millions savings if we cut Collins. I personally think they are battling for the same spot (#2). I am more comfortable with Brunell at #2 then a guy who has only attempted 37 more passes then I have in the NFl. I think Casey Bramlet and a yet to be signed UFA will battle for the #3 spot.

If I trusted our Front Office I would say cut both and use the cap savings to find a decent former starter turned backup to be behind JC (Like Garcia in Philly) to take JC's place only in case of injury.
You have attempted 509 passes in the NFL?
And I agree with your last sentence 100%.

[danny's stogie]

If I did the figures right, it would be a 2 million Cap savings if we cut Brunell and opnly a 1.25 millions savings if we cut Collins. I personally think they are battling for the same spot (#2). I am more comfortable with Brunell at #2 then a guy who has only attempted 37 more passes then I have in the NFl. I think Casey Bramlet and a yet to be signed UFA will battle for the #3 spot.

If I trusted our Front Office I would say cut both and use the cap savings to find a decent former starter turned backup to be behind JC (Like Garcia in Philly) to take JC's place only in case of injury.

I hope to god that Bramlett isn't the third string QB. He has such bad mojo that simply his presence on the roster will destroy the Skins, that and he's just that bad.

[morty55]

I agree, and sounds like he will be full strength by training camp. I would feel comfortable with him in the game if something where to happen...never mind I'm superstituous.

the guy is great in the clubhouse and the Coach loves him..it seems to me that some fear his possibly returning to starter -after the P. Ramsey debacle.

whether the shoulder heals or not- you know a re-structure will occur whether he plays or retires..by July it will all sort itself out.

[frankez99]

As long as it is made obvious to Mark via Joe Gibbs (and JG shows patience to Jason Campbell), I would be 100% behind Mark Brunell as our "restructured" backup. Let's face it, his best days are long behind him; but he is still extrememly serviceable, savvy, and smart enough to run our offense to a winning level. I am 100% comfortable with the thought of him as backup.

If he chooses to retire, I wouldn't mind seeing him on the staff in some capacity.

You don't just "discard" a reliable veteran like trash...especially one that has been loyal and can still perform at an acceptable level. Mark deserves better than that...and if anyone in here was involved in that booing episode, then shame on you.

Hail to the Redskins.

[CNYSkinFan]

You have attempted 509 passes in the NFL?
And I agree with your last sentence 100%.
I meant collins there smart guy :)

[CNYSkinFan]

I hope to god that Bramlett isn't the third string QB. He has such bad mojo that simply his presence on the roster will destroy the Skins, that and he's just that bad.
I could normally care about who is third string (unless they decide to put Campbell there again, just for fun).

[Patrick]

Brunell is a good guy and the booing of him in week 17 was a disgrace to all Redskins fans. Inexcusable. Here's my problem with bringing Brunell back at any salary: Gibbs loves him. I think Gibbs loves him beyond reason and would love an opportunity to put him back in a game. You might be thinking that's impossible, but I don't think so. I think Campbell's position is precarious as long as Brunell is on the team. Young quarterback's often go thru slumps. [Look at Eli, he's had 8-week-long slumps the last two seasons.] I don't want Brunell back in there just because Jason Campbell hits a bad patch for a couple of weeks.

Just say no to Brunell.

Will have to disagree with you some Tom.
Agreed that Gibbs holds Burnell in high regard and yes he'd probably put him in IF the situation was bad enough....... BUT I'd rather see it that way than to bright in another QB with less talent/potential and have him inserted for JC IF that moment you refer to does happen.................Nothing IS impossible BUT Gibbs did make the switch to JC while the team still had an outside chance to make the playoffs. You got to remember that Gibbs make some significant moves to obtain JC. ......................... NOW - no one knows for sure how Burnell restructure his contract but if he did and is willing to do it again that indicates to me that MB is willing to help this team in more ways than one. He has stated that he feels he's still capable of competing for a starting position for some team out there BUT IF he's going to be religated to a backup role he'd rather do it here. AGAIN that means a lot - IMO.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I meant collins there smart guy :)
Todd Collins (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1009): 302-546 for 3447 yards, 17 TDs and 19 INTs in his career. ;)

[danny's stogie]

I could normally care about who is third string (unless they decide to put Campbell there again, just for fun).

I have bad vibes from him as a WY Cowboy. Him and his family have helped keep the program down for several years now.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

I think your and Spense's point is valid, but here is my question, if something happens to JC and we need another QB, is there anyone else out there you would rather have than Brunell? The guy clearer knows the system and more or less played well enough to win most of the games he was in this year. I want JC comfortable with his role on the team also, but if something where to happen (notice I refuse to say the "I" word), I want to win ballgames as well.

I honestly don't think this is the case. He knew Gibbs' offensive system, but he doesn't know Saunders' one. According to a recent article, he was frustrated because he didn't have the time to learn it. In that case, better to have Collins as the backup guy, he DOES know Saunders' system.

[bgforever]

i would welcome back mark as a backup, nothing more. However, i wonder if mark is really a good candidate for a backup considering he never really seemed to figure out saunders system. And will his arm get weaker because of this?

Coaching assistant, that is actually "assisting" the QB coach, but that's all. The point is made, it's AS and Joe Gibbs running the offensive show, and AS has a chokehold on the QB position. This favors Campbell, his current backup, Collins and a warm body in camp, more like two more.

[dj_stouty]

No, they were boos. Loud and Clear.

I'm kinda rethinking this as well. Spence has a good argument. We don't need Jason looking over his shoulders knowing Brunell is there and how much Gibbs loves him. Also, what does it say about a coach who rather a play an injured QB over two healthy ones. Gibbs just lost some kudos from my on that alone. A shoulder injury to QB is big even if it isn't his throwing arm.

I think it is VERY healthy for a young QB to feel like he needs to compete at a high level to retain his job; even if the HC has no immediate desire to replace him.

Remember...Ramsey played his worst football when Brunell was lurking in the distance. It helped us evaluate him better. If your franchise QB is going to have his game play affected because of the #2 QB, then I think you should re-evaluate if that guy is truly the future of the organization.

Looking at Jason, he seems to be the opposite of Ramsey. He played very well with Brunell lurking at #2....and quite frankly, I think a lot of Brunell's positive attributes rubbed off on the kid. (protecting the ball, throwing the ball out of bounds...etc) Not to mention that Mark was Jason's biggest cheerleader from the get-go.

I'm not exactly sure how bad Brunell's shoulder injury was...but Brunell wasn't the only player to "play hurt" this season. Marcus, Rogers, Springs, Portis, Santana, Griff...to name a few...all got field-time and played through the pain. Just because a starter is injured doesn't mean the coach needs to play the 2nd or third stringer simply because they are 100% healthy.

[Fathead]

Why Brunell is so vilified here I will never understand.



And the whole, "OMG GIBBS LOVES BRUNELL SO THE SECOND JC HAS A BAD GAME HE'LL JUMP BACK TO BRUNELL" talk is ridiculous. I don't remember Brunell going back in after some bad picks in the Philly game. Coach Gibbs is not suicidal, he knows that when he made the move to JC that it was a long term move. Going back to Brunell as a starter is a move backwards, and I'm willing to bet that Coach knows it.


However, having Brunell there to push JC to work that much harder for a starting job is great. Having Brunell there to mentor JC through the rough patches (which we will have) is great. I see no reason not to have the guy as a backup, assuming it's at a reasonable price.


And none of us know the extent of the shoulder injury, so speculation about it is rather ridiculous.

[hail2skins]

I think it is VERY healthy for a young QB to feel like he needs to compete at a high level to retain his job; even if the HC has no immediate desire to replace him.

Remember...Ramsey played his worst football when Brunell was lurking in the distance. It helped us evaluate him better. If your franchise QB is going to have his game play affected because of the #2 QB, then I think you should re-evaluate if that guy is truly the future of the organization.

Looking at Jason, he seems to be the opposite of Ramsey. He played very well with Brunell lurking at #2....and quite frankly, I think a lot of Brunell's positive attributes rubbed off on the kid. (protecting the ball, throwing the ball out of bounds...etc) Not to mention that Mark was Jason's biggest cheerleader from the get-go.

I'm not exactly sure how bad Brunell's shoulder injury was...but Brunell wasn't the only player to "play hurt" this season. Marcus, Rogers, Springs, Portis, Santana, Griff...to name a few...all got field-time and played through the pain. Just because a starter is injured doesn't mean the coach needs to play the 2nd or third stringer simply because they are 100% healthy.I don't mind the competition factor at all but it seems like we have a coach with an emotional attachment to a specific player. That is the part I don't like. I bought Brunell in here so I have to give him all the opportunity in the world to prove himself. That's the part I'm not comfortable with.

Yes, a bunch of players play through injuries but a QB playing through a should injury just doesn't make sense to me especially since he uses it all the time. Yeah, he may know the offense better than the others (not in this cases though) but if he's injured and is restricted, he can't execute what he knows.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Why Brunell is so vilified here I will never understand.



And the whole, "OMG GIBBS LOVES BRUNELL SO THE SECOND JC HAS A BAD GAME HE'LL JUMP BACK TO BRUNELL" talk is ridiculous. I don't remember Brunell going back in after some bad picks in the Philly game. Coach Gibbs is not suicidal, he knows that when he made the move to JC that it was a long term move. Going back to Brunell as a starter is a move backwards, and I'm willing to bet that Coach knows it.


However, having Brunell there to push JC to work that much harder for a starting job is great. Having Brunell there to mentor JC through the rough patches (which we will have) is great. I see no reason not to have the guy as a backup, assuming it's at a reasonable price.


And none of us know the extent of the shoulder injury, so speculation about it is rather ridiculous.
I agree. I will let other people speak about the cap implications, but if you can have Collins who can help JC with the offense, Brunell can definitely teach JC a thing or two about being a winning QB in this league.

[bgforever]

I think it is VERY healthy for a young QB to feel like he needs to compete at a high level to retain his job; even if the HC has no immediate desire to replace him.

Remember...Ramsey played his worst football when Brunell was lurking in the distance. It helped us evaluate him better. If your franchise QB is going to have his game play affected because of the #2 QB, then I think you should re-evaluate if that guy is truly the future of the organization.

Looking at Jason, he seems to be the opposite of Ramsey. He played very well with Brunell lurking at #2....and quite frankly, I think a lot of Brunell's positive attributes rubbed off on the kid. (protecting the ball, throwing the ball out of bounds...etc) Not to mention that Mark was Jason's biggest cheerleader from the get-go.

I'm not exactly sure how bad Brunell's shoulder injury was...but Brunell wasn't the only player to "play hurt" this season. Marcus, Rogers, Springs, Portis, Santana, Griff...to name a few...all got field-time and played through the pain. Just because a starter is injured doesn't mean the coach needs to play the 2nd or third stringer simply because they are 100% healthy.

Yep! Collins AND JC should still compete for their position, performance wise, and that means doing all the things it takes to be #1. While in REHAB Brunell is yet the #2 still BUT being physically unable to play a game for almost 1/2 a year, is like a star DL being unavailable for 2 yrs. He, by DEFAULT, won't be at his usual spot when OTA's, etc, start. So by virtue of being a spectator and tutor still, why not groom him with the QB's coach's position. MB is an excellent teacher!

When Byron Leftwich went down and made numerous errors, it was because he wasn't using the things that MB showed him. He wanted to be the fancy dancer and got beat up again, made some costly mistakes. JC has the adavantage of having played with him, (MB), watched him and can become the first legitimate coaching student of Brunell's, just like Charley Taylor was the first person Art Monk reported to in Carlisle, PA., his first year.

[redskin_rich]

I agree. I will let other people speak about the cap implications, but if you can have Collins who can help JC with the offense, Brunell can definitely teach JC a thing or two about being a winning QB in this league.
As long as Brunell restructures, there are no favorable cap situations. Any money saved by releasing Brunell, will go into signing another backup QB. The QB situation should stay as it is for '07, IMO.

[dj_stouty]

I don't mind the competition factor at all but it seems like we have a coach with an emotional attachment to a specific player. That is the part I don't like. I bought Brunell in here so I have to give him all the opportunity in the world to prove himself. That's the part I'm not comfortable with.

Well...I certainly don't believe Gibbs would start a player for the sole reason that he was emotionally attached to him or felt he owed him someting; especially if in his heart, he believed there was a better option on the bench who he thought woudl produce more wins. After all, its not like JC became the next Brady or Big Ben. Even after the switch, the team continued to lose games thanks to their putrid defense and who was playing QB didn't make a difference.

If anything, I think its safe to assume Gibbs kept on believing the Brunell he saw take him to the playoffs in '05 would be the one on the field in '06...but this news on the injury definitely changes things a bit. Brunell played like crap with an injury in '04...so you would think Gibbs would be worried of a repeat with him playing with the injury in '06. But then again, his stats were great even with Al Saunders not understanding how to run the offense and running game effectively.

[hail2skins]

Well...I certainly don't believe Gibbs would start a player for the sole reason that he was emotionally attached to him or felt he owed him someting; especially if in his heart, he believed there was a better option on the bench who he thought woudl produce more wins. After all, its not like JC became the next Brady or Big Ben. Even after the switch, the team continued to lose games thanks to their putrid defense and who was playing QB didn't make a difference.

If anything, I think its safe to assume Gibbs kept on believing the Brunell he saw take him to the playoffs in '05 would be the one on the field in '06...but this news on the injury definitely changes things a bit. Brunell played like crap with an injury in '04...so you would think Gibbs would be worried of a repeat with him playing with the injury in '06. But then again, his stats were great even with Al Saunders not understanding how to run the offense and running game effectively.We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. If Gibbs knew Brunell had an injury to his throwing shoulder in week 2 then he should have switched. Yeah, Mark played ok but didn't attempt many passes downfield and didn't attack defenses in the middle where it was open. Was that because of the injury? Probably so. I didn't believe it at the time but Doc has been saying it all season long that something had to be wrong with him. Now we see it's true. Gibbs thought a player with an injured throwing shoulder would give us a better chance to win. Hmmm. Why not get the young guy you drafted started early.

[CNYSkinFan]

Todd Collins (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/1009): 302-546 for 3447 yards, 17 TDs and 19 INTs in his career. ;)
LOL i forgot about the Buffalo years. Then again I don't consider them in the NFL.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

LOL i forgot about the Buffalo years. Then again I don't consider them in the NFL.
Damn! I was hoping you used to be an NFL quarterback so you could send me your autograph, which I would have resold on ebay for a ton of money. Now you ruined everything.

[HAWGZHEAD]

If I did the figures right, it would be a 2 million Cap savings if we cut Brunell and opnly a 1.25 millions savings if we cut Collins. I personally think they are battling for the same spot (#2). Come on now, we know that noone is bad enough on the team to be "battling" with Todd Collins :D. But seriously if we do get rid of Brunell I still think we need a vet to give Campbell some guidance and be there to talk him through trouble if he encounters any. Campbell has looked good but I don't think anyone can be 100% confident in him yet. Gotta have a time tested game ready vet still IMO.

[dj_stouty]

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. If Gibbs knew Brunell had an injury to his throwing shoulder in week 2 then he should have switched. Yeah, Mark played ok but didn't attempt many passes downfield and didn't attack defenses in the middle where it was open. Was that because of the injury? Probably so. I didn't believe it at the time but Doc has been saying it all season long that something had to be wrong with him. Now we see it's true. Gibbs thought a player with an injured throwing shoulder would give us a better chance to win. Hmmm. Why not get the young guy you drafted started early.

I dont' think either of us know exactly what Gibbs thought in his head about this situation. Either he believed an injured Brunell was better than the untested Campbell, especially with so many games left into the season. OR...Gibbs simply was holding onto Brunell too much. I tend to believe the first opinion simply because I think Gibbs cherishes winning and giving the fanbase the best product on the field too much to wager that against his loyalty to one man. Gibbs may be loyal to Brunell, but he is more loyal to the collective team and the fanbase.

Its one of those situations where I wish I knew how someone like Brunell and/or Campbell looked in practice throughout the entire season. Most of the clues to this mystery reside there...I'll bet.

[hail2skins]

I dont' think either of us know exactly what Gibbs thought in his head about this situation. Either he believed an injured Brunell was better than the untested Campbell, especially with so many games left into the season. OR...Gibbs simply was holding onto Brunell too much. I tend to believe the first opinion simply because I think Gibbs cherishes winning and giving the fanbase the best product on the field too much to wager that against his loyalty to one man. Gibbs may be loyal to Brunell, but he is more loyal to the collective team and the fanbase.

Its one of those situations where I wish I knew how someone like Brunell and/or Campbell looked in practice throughout the entire season. Most of the clues to this mystery reside there...I'll bet.Well, that's a good point but since we heard that Campbell didn't get any snaps in practice with the first team, it's hard to tell. All of this coming out now just irks me. I didn't want to see Collins play but if he's healthy and knew the offensive system better than any of the QB's, then I think he would have been the best option of putting the best players on the field for the fans.

I'm not questioning Gibbs passion for winning but I am questioning his decision to stay with an injured QB. Like you said, practice probably is the best place to see why he made his decision. I just wish he would share it with us fans so we'll (I'll) understand.

[HAWGZHEAD]

I'm not questioning Gibbs passion for winning but I am questioning his decision to stay with an injured QB. Like you said, practice probably is the best place to see why he made his decision. I just wish he would share it with us fans so we'll (I'll) understand.Didn't this happen last year as well with us finding out that Brunell had been playing with a bad leg for most of the year? I never want to believe all the relationship between MB and Gibbs being more important than the overall good of the team comments, but things like this make me question. But still maybe even with the injuries Gibbs truly felt he was putting the best product on the field, or at least I hope so.

[bgforever]

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. If Gibbs knew Brunell had an injury to his throwing shoulder in week 2 then he should have switched. Yeah, Mark played ok but didn't attempt many passes downfield and didn't attack defenses in the middle where it was open. Was that because of the injury? Probably so. I didn't believe it at the time but Doc has been saying it all season long that something had to be wrong with him. Now we see it's true. Gibbs thought a player with an injured throwing shoulder would give us a better chance to win. Hmmm. Why not get the young guy you drafted started early.

This confirms my remark about "either Mark Brunell is injured and we just have to get used to the Joe Gibbs dances really close to telling a fib, or he's playing for money betted in Vegas (Colts game). That games WASN"T a GIMME for the Colts. MB had receivers open but knew full well he couldn't "arc" or drop the ball into the streaking receivers (once for Llyod, about 2 times for Cooley and once for ARE. 3 were more likely to be HUGE gains and inside the red zone or TD's. Meaning we could have easily went toe to toe with the Colts. When you are two TD's up on he Colts, you drive a stake in their heart!

MB seemed to fein from passing more aggressively to wide open or streaking receivers (ball placed on the outside shoulder so if they don't catch it, no one can intercept because ti goes out of bounds).

[bgforever]

Didn't this happen last year as well with us finding out that Brunell had been playing with a bad leg for most of the year? I never want to believe all the relationship between MB and Gibbs being more important than the overall good of the team comments, but things like this make me question. But still maybe even with the injuries Gibbs truly felt he was putting the best product on the field, or at least I hope so.


I don't know, I love Joe Gibbs and all, but I aint convinced he wasn't protecting his face on this one.

[gibbs!we!trust!]

Look Gibbs need to face the music that Brunell does not have it anymore and Campbell does. Sure MB back in the early 90's was the bomb, but he is almost for 40 and those injuries will take longer to heal. Plus no offense can live with a QB who can barely throw it 30 yards. That's why the running game has open up, defenses knows Campbell can throw it 60+.

When ask do you think the running game open up due to Campbell able to throw it deep and defense could put 8 and 9 in the box, Gibbs said "No!"

He needs to wake up and smell the coffee.:banghead:

[Skins57]

I see no reason not to have him back in a backup role.


I agree, we need less change and he would be a good back up if he wants to continue his career. I don't see him starting anywhere so i doubt if he plays he is elsewhere

[WarEagle]

I agree, we need less change and he would be a good back up if he wants to continue his career. I don't see him starting anywhere so i doubt if he plays he is elsewhere

I must agree. It appears he's making a commendable effort to encourage and mentor Jason. If he fails his player physical, then hire him as an asst. QB coach to keep him close to Jason. I was a detractor of MB's play for a long time, but he seems to be a great teacher.

[Fathead]

Look Gibbs need to face the music that Brunell does not have it anymore and Campbell does. Sure MB back in the early 90's was the bomb, but he is almost for 40 and those injuries will take longer to heal. Plus no offense can live with a QB who can barely throw it 30 yards. That's why the running game has open up, defenses knows Campbell can throw it 60+.

When ask do you think the running game open up due to Campbell able to throw it deep and defense could put 8 and 9 in the box, Gibbs said "No!"

He needs to wake up and smell the coffee.:banghead:



Did you not watch the last seven games? Campbell started. Brunell was a backup. What more do you want? Brunell lead to the guillotine?

[Dept_of_Defense]

I honestly wouldn't mind having Brunell back as long as he restructures his contract. Maybe we can get Tim Hasselbesck back.

[redwolf1218]

Does Brunell really have enough of a grasp of this new offense to be this great "mentor" that lots of people here have mentioned?

quote:
At times during training camp, Brunell would grow frustrated at the complexity of the new offense. Collins would tell him to relax, that it took about a year to learn.

"I don't have a year," Brunell told Collins. "I've got less than 30 days."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/01/AR2007010101001_3.html

so if all you want is a mentor, Collins would be the man, but i think we need a backup QB who can play and be effective, and i'm just not convinced that Brunell will be able to do that at 37 years of age after shoulder surgery.

i know Brunell is a great guy and everyone loves him,

[Fathead]

There's a lot more to being a mentor than just familiarity with the offense. It's having been in the pressure cooker. It's knowing what to look for in an NFL defense. It's knowing how to handle the media and fans. It's knowing how to keep your guys pumped when the situation is getting out of hand (like 3rd and 27 in the 4th quarter at Dallas). The list goes on and on. Brunell can give all that to JC, and it looked to me like that was how he was doing things when JC took over the starting role.



Keep Collins as the 3rd to help with the offense.

[WarEagle]

There's a lot more to being a mentor than just familiarity with the offense. It's having been in the pressure cooker. It's knowing what to look for in an NFL defense. It's knowing how to handle the media and fans. It's knowing how to keep your guys pumped when the situation is getting out of hand (like 3rd and 27 in the 4th quarter at Dallas). The list goes on and on. Brunell can give all that to JC, and it looked to me like that was how he was doing things when JC took over the starting role.

Keep Collins as the 3rd to help with the offense.

Very true. After Bledsoe lost his job to Brady, and later to Romo, I never heard anyone say that he went out of his way to assist either of them. Mark's a stand-up guy.

[gibbs4pres]

I'm kinda rethinking this as well. Spence has a good argument. We don't need Jason looking over his shoulders knowing Brunell is there and how much Gibbs loves him. Also, what does it say about a coach who rather a play an injured QB over two healthy ones. Gibbs just lost some kudos from my on that alone. A shoulder injury to QB is big even if it isn't his throwing arm.

Jason won't be looking over his shoulder at an older QB like Brunell. If he does then he's not the caliber QB we want. Remember what Gibbs said about P. Ramsey? Same issue. As for playing Brunell after the injury.....22 straight completions the next week. Might want to rethink that.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Jason won't be looking over his shoulder at an older QB like Brunell. If he does then he's not the caliber QB we want. Remember what Gibbs said about P. Ramsey? Same issue. As for playing Brunell after the injury.....22 straight completions the next week. Might want to rethink that.
I agree. This injury thing seems overblown to me. Its not like he never threw long after that because he did. He didn't do it as often as we would have liked, but I would think an injured guy wouldn't be able to do it at all.

I think MB is a stand-up guy as has been stated earlier, but I was calling for JC long before Gibbs put him in. I don't think MB was too injured or hurt to play and that's why Gibbs played him. And let's face it, if our defense played anywhere near 2004 or 2005 level, MB would have led this team to the playoffs this year. We did not lose games due to our QB play this year.

I know after a bad season everyone wants answers and there's tons of speculation about why decisions went wrong, but I don't buy that Gibbs put loyalty to Brunell over wins. Sorry, just don't buy it.

[TheBigCat]

Just for the record, Brunell did have a throw that was completed 41+yds past the line of scrimmage in the air. That would lead me to believe he can throw it over "30 yards". I am not saying he has an extremely strong arm in the NFL, but it isn't the liability some have made out.

[gibbs4pres]

I agree. This injury thing seems overblown to me. Its not like he never threw long after that because he did. He didn't do it as often as we would have liked, but I would think an injured guy wouldn't be able to do it at all.

Plus Gibbs likes to see guys play through injuries. Look at Doug Williams. Knee injury then returns to put up the best quarter of football ever played in the SB!


I think MB is a stand-up guy as has been stated earlier, but I was calling for JC long before Gibbs put him in. I don't think MB was too injured or hurt to play and that's why Gibbs played him. And let's face it, if our defense played anywhere near 2004 or 2005 level, MB would have led this team to the playoffs this year. We did not lose games due to our QB play this year.

:boo: .........a reinactment of our Defense.


I know after a bad season everyone wants answers and there's tons of speculation about why decisions went wrong, but I don't buy that Gibbs put loyalty to Brunell over wins. Sorry, just don't buy it.

No one can get to that level of sucess in whatever he or she does by having favorites that don't produce. I don't buy it either.

[CNYSkinFan]

The more I think of it, the more I look at it, the more I study it, I have come tot he following conclusion.

I want Collins cut. He is making too much for an old 3rd string backup. 1.25 million can be saved in cap sopace if we cut him.

I want MB back but only, and I mean only, if he reduces his cap number by a restructure. If not cut both Collins and Brunell (Brunalell is an additional savings of 2 million) and take that 3 millions and sign a trent Dilfer typ and a rookie UFa as our 2nd and 3rd.

[redskin_rich]

The more I think of it, the more I look at it, the more I study it, I have come tot he following conclusion.

I want Collins cut. He is making too much for an old 3rd string backup. 1.25 million can be saved in cap sopace if we cut him.

I want MB back but only, and I mean only, if he reduces his cap number by a restructure. If not cut both Collins and Brunell (Brunalell is an additional savings of 2 million) and take that 3 millions and sign a trent Dilfer typ and a rookie UFa as our 2nd and 3rd.
Prepare to be unhappy, once again.

[gibbs4pres]

The more I think of it, the more I look at it, the more I study it, I have come tot he following conclusion.

I want Collins cut. He is making too much for an old 3rd string backup. 1.25 million can be saved in cap sopace if we cut him.

I want MB back but only, and I mean only, if he reduces his cap number by a restructure. If not cut both Collins and Brunell (Brunalell is an additional savings of 2 million) and take that 3 millions and sign a trent Dilfer typ and a rookie UFa as our 2nd and 3rd.

Or have them both restructure and then keep the same personel and save the cap space. What a thought.

[CNYSkinFan]

Prepare to be unhappy, once again.
Unhappy at which part? :)

[CNYSkinFan]

Or have them both restructure and then keep the same personel and save the cap space. What a thought.
I could live with that too. I could live with keeping both of them at what they make as well. I like Brunell as backup and Collins would be the best 3rd QB in the league so depth would not be an issue. But if we are cutting Lloyd and Arch (estimated 14 million in cap hits between the two of them this year) then we have to find room somewhere considering we are right at the cap right now.

[CNYSkinFan]

Prepare to be unhappy, once again.
Oh and btw my happiness is not predicated on whether or not the coaching staff does what I think they should do but more on our success on the field. I am extreemely happy when we win even if we do it while doing everything I was against. I nwould gladly trade bitching about offseason moves for post season glory right now...I know you would do the same.

[dj_stouty]

I think Jason looked great at the end of the season...and I think a lot of it has to do with Brunell being a mentor. Some veteran QBs like Brett Favre refuse to mentor incoming QBs...and some veteran QBs like Brunell seem to cherish the opportunity.

Jason has had so many different coaches over his college and NFL career that maybe having a guy like Brunell stick around an extra year or two will give him some consistancy in hiw teachings and speed up his development.

My biggest question is; Why didnt Brunell even sniff the injury report every week if he had a bad shoulder since week 2? If I were the NFL, I'd look into it. I think Gibbs was sneaky on this one.

[redskin_rich]

Unhappy at which part? :)
At neither Brunell or Collins being released. Gibbs is not going to cut his depth at the most vital position for a couple stiffs that have no familiarity with the system or the players, just to save a little cap room. Not going to happen.

[CNYSkinFan]

At neither Brunell or Collins being released. Gibbs is not going to cut his depth at the most vital position for a couple stiffs that have no familiarity with the system or the players, just to save a little cap room. Not going to happen.
As long as they restructure I am fine with that....but if neither restructure I do think one of them (moost likely Collins) will be gone for Cap purposes. If Brunell gets a major restructure then both could easily stay.

[redskin_rich]

My biggest question is; Why didnt Brunell even sniff the injury report every week if he had a bad shoulder since week 2? If I were the NFL, I'd look into it. I think Gibbs was sneaky on this one.
I don't think the injury was that serious, at least not initially. Think about it, Brunell had his best two games(Houston, Jacksonville) after this injury supposedly occurred.

[CNYSkinFan]

I think Jason looked great at the end of the season...and I think a lot of it has to do with Brunell being a mentor. Some veteran QBs like Brett Favre refuse to mentor incoming QBs...and some veteran QBs like Brunell seem to cherish the opportunity.

Jason has had so many different coaches over his college and NFL career that maybe having a guy like Brunell stick around an extra year or two will give him some consistancy in hiw teachings and speed up his development.

My biggest question is; Why didnt Brunell even sniff the injury report every week if he had a bad shoulder since week 2? If I were the NFL, I'd look into it. I think Gibbs was sneaky on this one.
well techincally the injury report is there to predict whether a player will play or not, not whether he is in injured. Since Brunell played right up until the point he was benched and was benched for performance, nothing coan reall be made of the injury report.

More likely the inury is being used as justification for keeping Brunell on the roster next year wiht a high cap number and giving assurance to the fans we have depth.

[CNYSkinFan]

I don't think the injury was that serious, at least not initially. Think about it, Brunell had his best two games(Houston, Jacksonville) after this injury supposedly occurred.
But playing with the injury could have injured it further, espescially if it is a shoulder injury in the throwing arm.

[gibbs4pres]

I would gladly trade bitching about offseason moves for post season glory right now...I know you would do the same.

:lol1: TOTALLY!!!!!!!!!!

[gibbs4pres]

I could live with that too. I could live with keeping both of them at what they make as well. I like Brunell as backup and Collins would be the best 3rd QB in the league so depth would not be an issue. But if we are cutting Lloyd and Arch (estimated 14 million in cap hits between the two of them this year) then we have to find room somewhere considering we are right at the cap right now.

I really don't think that we are cutting either of them. TOO big of a number. Then again I am no capologist or want to know that much about their contracts.

Let them both restructure this year and think about the QB back-ups next offseason. Brunell will retire and Collins will retire the year after.

[redskin_rich]

Oh and btw my happiness is not predicated on whether or not the coaching staff does what I think they should do but more on our success on the field. I am extreemely happy when we win even if we do it while doing everything I was against. I nwould gladly trade bitching about offseason moves for post season glory right now...I know you would do the same.
Most definitely. I'm not a big draft or free agency fan anyway, I always get a laugh at how excited and/or miserable some people get over offseason moves. When the Skins were consistently good in the '80s, I never even followed the draft. The draft only became interesting when we started sucking. Have we become the Buccaneers of old, where draft day(and free agency now) was their Super Bowl? How sad...

[James F. Quinn]

[QUOTE=CNYSkinFan]I want MB back but only, and I mean only, if he reduces his cap number by a restructure. QUOTE]

I'm not clear what people mean by "restructure" in the case of Brunell.

Usually, to me, a restructuring means taking next years salary and converting it to a bonus that can be spread out over the remaining years of the contract.

That means that Mark would be guaranteed that $5.2M and the hit would be spread out over 2007 through 2010. So $1.3M per year would be a cap hit on top of the $1.4M from his original SB.

That means we're paying him a $5.2M bonus to be a backup, and he'll count as $2.7M per year as a cap hit.

Sounds like a lot for a backup.

The other kind of reduced salary action I'm aware of is more simple and more brutal. Based on the data on scoutdotcom, Mark has a one year option for 2007 for $5.2M, another one year option for 2008 for $6.4M, 2009 for $7.6M, and a last option for 2010 for $7.4M.

Joe/Danny/etc simply say we won't exercise those options. Instead, we're offering a new contract. A contract for 2007 for $1M, and three one year options at $1M each. No bonus. Accept and you're here, reject, and you're free to go play for Al Davis or whoever, for whatever he'll offer.

If Mark leaves, the team takes the cap hit for the original signing bonus and moves on.

I'm not crazy about Mark staying here anyway, for reasons set out by others. As for his mentoring value, I doubt he can add hugely to what the QB coach and the dozen or so offensive coordinators now on the staff can teach Jason.

[CNYSkinFan]

I'm not clear what people mean by "restructure" in the case of Brunell.

Usually, to me, a restructuring means taking next years salary and converting it to a bonus that can be spread out over the remaining years of the contract.

That means that Mark would be guaranteed that $5.2M and the hit would be spread out over 2007 through 2010. So $1.3M per year would be a cap hit on top of the $1.4M from his original SB.

That means we're paying him a $5.2M bonus to be a backup, and he'll count as $2.7M per year as a cap hit.

Sounds like a lot for a backup.

The other kind of reduced salary action I'm aware of is more simple and more brutal. Based on the data on scoutdotcom, Mark has a one year option for 2007 for $5.2M, another one year option for 2008 for $6.4M, 2009 for $7.6M, and a last option for 2010 for $7.4M.

Joe/Danny/etc simply say we won't exercise those options. Instead, we're offering a new contract. A contract for 2007 for $1M, and three one year options at $1M each. No bonus. Accept and you're here, reject, and you're free to go play for Al Davis or whoever, for whatever he'll offer.

If Mark leaves, the team takes the cap hit for the original signing bonus and moves on.

I'm not crazy about Mark staying here anyway, for reasons set out by others. As for his mentoring value, I doubt he can add hugely to what the QB coach and the dozen or so offensive coordinators now on the staff can teach Jason.
Restructuring can talke various forms. Guaranteeing parts of salary and spreading it out over the life of the contract is one way. Although with only 3 years left on brunell's contract and multiple restructures already taking place, I am not sure that is the best opeiton or even a viable option.

The second most common ins a contract extension that gives an SB and reduces the salary for the intiial years of the contract. This was done with Lavar for example. It is ionly done when a player is young and you want to wrap him up for life. Brunell is not that type of player.

The third route is rarely done, but may be needed in Brunell's case, where the player actually gives up future earnings. this is a true reduction in salary and thus why it is rarely done. However older players who are looking at earning nothing next year if cut (remember most of their cap figure comes from bonus already received) may do this to get one or two more years.

I think Brunell has to be option 3. We will see.

[openallnight]

Most definitely. I'm not a big draft or free agency fan anyway, I always get a laugh at how excited and/or miserable some people get over offseason moves. When the Skins were consistently good in the '80s, I never even followed the draft. The draft only became interesting when we started sucking. Have we become the Buccaneers of old, where draft day(and free agency now) was their Super Bowl? How sad...
This is sad but true. Back when we were winning SBs I too could give a hoot about anything during the off-season. I got a FULL season's worth of football and was ready to take a break and enjoy our success.

But, when you're season is basically over by Thanksgiving you feel slighted and all you can do is look forward to the off-season for some fulfillment of your unquenched thirst.

[redwolf1218]

[QUOTE=CNYSkinFan]I want MB back but only, and I mean only, if he reduces his cap number by a restructure. QUOTE]

As for his mentoring value, I doubt he can add hugely to what the QB coach and the dozen or so offensive coordinators now on the staff can teach Jason.
i tend to agree. with Gibbs plus:
Al Saunders Associated Head Coach of Offense
Joe Bugel Offensive Line Coach/Asst Head Coach
Don Breaux Offensive Coordinator
Jack Burns Offensive Consultant
Bill Lazor Quarterbacks Coach

and Brunell and Collins...i mean Campbell only has 2 ears to hear with.

Brunell is going to be 37 and he's been banged up. Collins is going to be 36 and he is not banged up, so he might have a few years left. those guys should get modest deals as backups with incentives in case they end up being starters for an extended period of time.

[dj_stouty]

As for his mentoring value, I doubt he can add hugely to what the QB coach and the dozen or so offensive coordinators now on the staff can teach Jason.

Aside from a big arm...I really see a lot of Mark Brunell in Jason Campbell. At least a ton more than I saw of JC in college. That isn't an accident. I think MB has rubbed off on Jason a bit more than we will know....and I would tend to agree with your above quote, IF...and only IF...Bill Musgrave was still here. I don't have as much faith with Al Saunders or Lazor.

[Skinz4lyfe]

Apparently Brunell was injured in the 2nd Cowboys game and not the first one. This makes a little more sense to me and which was probably why Campbell came in there.


Link (http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=24250)

[HAWGZHEAD]

Does Brunell really have enough of a grasp of this new offense to be this great "mentor" that lots of people here have mentioned?

quote:
At times during training camp, Brunell would grow frustrated at the complexity of the new offense. Collins would tell him to relax, that it took about a year to learn.

"I don't have a year," Brunell told Collins. "I've got less than 30 days."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/01/AR2007010101001_3.html

so if all you want is a mentor, Collins would be the man, but i think we need a backup QB who can play and be effective, and i'm just not convinced that Brunell will be able to do that at 37 years of age after shoulder surgery.

i know Brunell is a great guy and everyone loves him,We don't really need Mark to teach him the playbook but more to show him how to be successful as an NFL quarterback. How to deal with tough times and the intracacies of the game. Those two things I would doubt Todd Collins has nearly the grasp of as a vet like Brunell.

[Dolla Bill]

I think Gibbs, Saunders, Lazor, and Brunell have had a very positive influence on Campbell thus far. He was thrust into the starting line-up with hardly any practice with the 1st team. I think that JC is light years ahead of what the previous 4 have thought he would be.

[hail2skins]

Hmmm, earlier today Redskins.com had an headline titled "Clarification on Brunell Surgery". When you click on the link, it came up to a blank screen. Now it's not even there. I wonder what's going on with that.

[redskin_rich]

Hmmm, earlier today Redskins.com had an headline titled "Clarification on Brunell Surgery". When you click on the link, it came up to a blank screen. Now it's not even there. I wonder what's going on with that.
Somebody didn't like that the story admitted a mistake and changed it, is my guess.
The new story there contains the updated info though.
Brunell suffered the shoulder injury during the Nov. 5 game against the Dallas Cowboys. It was decided after the season that surgery would be necessary.

[AntiSheriff]

I haven't read all the posts to this thread, so I may be reiterating something that's already been said. Mark Brunell is a class act, whether or not he has the capacity to maintain a starting spot on the team (it would take a pretty persuasive argument to convince me he's capable of being a starter for any NFL team), what he has is actual game and playoff experience, something Todd Collins can't offer if he assumes the backup role. I don't think fans should be concerned whether or not Brunell can come off the bench and win a game-- he can. He doesn't seem to have the ability to string together wins, or be the driving force behind the offense. He's not a game-winner on an individual basis, but rarely will he be the reason the game is lost. In the face of fan scrutiny and a complex offense that was completely foreign to him this season, his willingness to restructure and play a bit role for the sake of the team speaks volumes about this guy's character. He's a Joe Gibbs Redskin, and if the front office can find a way to bring him back for next season, they absolutely should.

[WinnpegSkinsFan]

I haven't read all the posts to this thread, so I may be reiterating something that's already been said. Mark Brunell is a class act, whether or not he has the capacity to maintain a starting spot on the team (it would take a pretty persuasive argument to convince me he's capable of being a starter for any NFL team), what he has is actual game and playoff experience, something Todd Collins can't offer if he assumes the backup role. I don't think fans should be concerned whether or not Brunell can come off the bench and win a game-- he can. He doesn't seem to have the ability to string together wins, or be the driving force behind the offense. He's not a game-winner on an individual basis, but rarely will he be the reason the game is lost. In the face of fan scrutiny and a complex offense that was completely foreign to him this season, his willingness to restructure and play a bit role for the sake of the team speaks volumes about this guy's character. He's a Joe Gibbs Redskin, and if the front office can find a way to bring him back for next season, they absolutely should.

I think Brunell is a class act and did what ever he could to help the team. I wouldn't want him starting anymore because his physical skills have eroded to the point were he isn't effective (at least on a consistent basis). As a cheaper backup I am happy with him.

I think it is disgraceful how he was booed at the last home game and I wouldn't blame him for wanting out.