Sounding you out, please Vote - How about an official hR Hall of Fame.

[flave1969]

I have been stewing all weekend, and have come to the conclusion that the Hall of Fame has become irrelevant and just does a disservice to those fine players, not just Monk waiting to get in but also those who have gotten in so far.

We have annual votes every year on the best ever players. Why dont we put some of those energies into creating our own Hall of Fame?

We could make it just as tough to enter, requiring stringent criteria to be passed. It could be a virtual Hall, but it would be wonderful to send the inductees a nice certificate of induction from us as fans..

I am willing to formulate as much of this as possible, but we could make a committee not just of hR members, we could ask Doc Walker to vote, Shapiro anyone, but the cut down process could be done here on these boards.

Please vote. If I get 50 yes votes, I will happily push forward with this idea of starting a hR Hall of fame.

[redskin_rich]

Count me in.

[CNYSkinFan]

Id be willing to help out!

[Biggie]

I'm all for it!

[smoak]

Sounds interesting, but I hope people can be unbiased. :D

After this weekend, I just decided I pushing forward with my old idea to do a "Wall of Fame" in my basement. That way I could put up a little something for the players who have contributed to my enjoyment of sports.

[Keino]

I'll participate. A Much better use of our energies.

I do think we should limit our HOF to the Modern era.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

At first I thought it was going to be a Hall Of Fame of HR members..lol...
But yeah, I'm in..it's a cool idea. I also agree with Keino to limit it to modern day players

[redskinz#1fan]

I'm down, but it must be unbiased. If it weren't, then we would be no better then the ragged voters that the NFL has now!

[flave1969]

I'll participate. A Much better use of our energies.

I do think we should limit our HOF to the Modern era.

When do you think it should start 1960?

How about replicating the Hall and putting up a senior member each year.

A Hall of Fame without Sammy Baugh doesnt quite ring true. Perhaps he could be the Honarary President of our Hall.

[LATrueRedskin]

I'm down for it.

[ryflan47]

I'm in, but it's going to be tough to be unbiased!! I wouldn't mind if it was Modern era or pre-Modern era. Either is fine by me but I do think that this is a great idea.

If I may propose a requirement for those inducted:

CHARACTER COUNTS!

[rskinsfan10]

Great idea flave.

[Keino]

When do you think it should start 1960?

How about replicating the Hall and putting up a senior member each year.

A Hall of Fame without Sammy Baugh doesnt quite ring true. Perhaps he could be the Honarary President of our Hall.


I guess my thinking is that none of us have seen any pre-modern era players play. There are older members who have seen the very earliest modern eras play. Presumably, the pre-modern era players were inducted by folks who actually saw them play, and had a finer appreciation of the game that it was back then.

I agree that a HOF without Sammy doesn't ring true. If I were to do this, I would start with an examination of the current modern era players there and decide who doesn't make the cut. Lynn Swann comes to mind.

[PGiddy18]

Sounds like a fantastic idea to me. Lemme know what i can do to help

[santanadasavior]

I'd love to help with this, I think having a panel of solid posters vote with a needed say 75% of the votes needed to get in. I don't know but I do know it's a good idea.

[ryflan47]

We have our first naysayer... disregard that dude

[skins111111]

sounds good to me

[SkinsfaninNJ]

This is a worthy understaking. I'm beginning to really hate that sports "journalists" are the gate keepers of the HOF.

[flave1969]

A Clarification - My original intention was for this too be a Redskin Hall of Fame.

Are we saying that a complete NFL Hall of Fame is the better way to go.

[smoak]

A Clarification - My original intention was for this too be a Redskin Hall of Fame.

Are we saying that a complete NFL Hall of Fame is the better way to go.

Oh... That makes more sense, but again I think the key is the integrity of who we put up for vote. Someone needs to put up rules. Here are some questions to mull over:

1) Length of service consideration? Would Deion Sanders get in?
2) Is this based on how they played as a Redskin? This ties in with the first, but maybe a guy had enough good years with us (whatever that threshold is) but had great ones with another team.
3) How long must someone be retired before consideration?
4) Should character count? I think yes, but that is just my opinion and I know others disagree. I just think that I want to be able to say that I am proud this person was a Redskin. Honestly, if I was a dallass fan I would not be proud of Irvin... I'd appreciate what he accomplished, but that is about the extent of it.
5) How many get in per year? Who is elligible? Players.... Coaches? Owners? Vinny? :D Fans like Chief or the Hogettes? Matt Damon?
6) Do we start of with a larger than normal inagural class to get us up to speed and then scale back to a normal # next year.
7) How does the voting process work? My suggestion is that each member gets a limited # of votes and each player has to hit a certain threshold.
9) I personally like the idea of seperating the modern era players, but maybe we shouldn't neglect the older guys.... Just separate them.
10) My thought is that once we narrow the vote we need volunteers to write a brief argument for and against the person's induction.


That is just off the top of my head... I just wouldn't want to participate if it was going to be deteriorate into complaints, whining, misery, and annoying attitudes.... We have plenty of draft threads for that.

It should remain fun and very respectful IMO.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Oh... That makes more sense, but again I think the key is the integrity of who we put up for vote. Someone needs to put up rules. Here are some questions to mull over:

1) Length of service consideration? Would Deion Sanders get in?
2) Is this based on how they played as a Redskin? This ties in with the first, but maybe a guy had enough good years with us (whatever that threshold is) but had great ones with another team.
3) How long must someone be retired before consideration?
4) Should character count? I think yes, but that is just my opinion and I know others disagree. I just think that I want to be able to say that I am proud this person was a Redskin. Honestly, if I was a dallass fan I would not be proud of Irvin... I'd appreciate what he accomplished, but that is about the extent of it.
5) How many get in per year? Who is elligible? Players.... Coaches? Owners? Vinny? :D Fans like Chief or the Hogettes? Matt Damon?
6) Do we start of with a larger than normal inagural class to get us up to speed and then scale back to a normal # next year.
7) How does the voting process work? My suggestion is that each member gets a limited # of votes and each player has to hit a certain threshold.
9) I personally like the idea of seperating the modern era players, but maybe we shouldn't neglect the older guys.... Just separate them.
10) My thought is that once we narrow the vote we need volunteers to write a brief argument for and against the person's induction.


That is just off the top of my head... I just wouldn't want to participate if it was going to be deteriorate into complaints, whining, misery, and annoying attitudes.... We have plenty of draft threads for that.

It should remain fun and very respectful IMO.
Personally, I think it would be better to do an all-NFL HOF. The discussion would be much more interesting, and it could be done pretty much every year. Doing an only-Redskins one would end up being a glorification of our past great players, and a unanimous "yes" to the very few HOF worthy-players that will come up in the next few years.
To keep it simpler we could just take the players that are eligible the current year and vote ourselves on the ones we want/we don't want.
As for the past players, I think it would be WAY too long to have a voting on each and every one of them, so if we want to do them, we would have to find a way to keep it relatively short.

[dj_stouty]

I'd rather see it be "Redskins-Only". Sort of like the Ring of Fame for HR.

The inagural class could be twice as large (Around 10)...then starting the 2nd year, it could go back to normal size. (5 or less)

[redskin_rich]

Redskins only... We are talking about a HailRedskins HOF. We couldn't possibly honor any Cowgirls in it, deserving or not.

[Keino]

A Clarification - My original intention was for this too be a Redskin Hall of Fame.

Are we saying that a complete NFL Hall of Fame is the better way to go.


Oops. I would still participate, but I did misunderstand the original intent.

If it's Redskins only, then I agree with DJ, but I would have an innaugeral class of 8 and cut it back to 4 per year.

[BurgundyNGold]

Oops. I would still participate, but I did misunderstand the original intent.

If it's Redskins only, then I agree with DJ, but I would have an innaugeral class of 8 and cut it back to 4 per year.
I might even cut it back to 2 per year. 4 seems a lot. After a few years, we'd be reaching.

[CNYSkinFan]

I might even cut it back to 2 per year. 4 seems a lot. After a few years, we'd be reaching.
yeah that seems right...

I also think any polling on this should be public. No anonymity like those bastards at the other place in Canton.

[dj_stouty]

I might even cut it back to 2 per year. 4 seems a lot. After a few years, we'd be reaching.

Even better. I like the idea of only 2 per year after the first induction.

It would create more discussions...

8 first year....2 the next year could be great....considering there are probably 2-3 dozen players that members would want squeezed into the first 10 entries the first two seasons. Debate would probably be as heated as the GOAT debates the past few years.

As a fun side-thing, it would be cool to have a Redskins Hall of Shame. Induct a new dude every year.

[CNYSkinFan]

Even better. I like the idea of only 2 per year after the first induction.

It would create more discussions...

8 first year....2 the next year could be great....considering there are probably 2-3 dozen players that members would want squeezed into the first 10 entries the first two seasons. Debate would probably be as heated as the GOAT debates the past few years.

As a fun side-thing, it would be cool to have a Redskins Hall of Shame. Induct a new dude every year.

An Inaugural class of Gus Ferrotte, Heath Shuler, and Norv turner?

[Keino]

Hall of Shame eh.....I nominate Shar Pourdanesh, or as they call him in the streets of DC "Ole' False Start"

[bwparker]

I was thinking an all NFL thing and voted it was a waste of time. But if its a redskins only thing I think it'd be fun. Especially the first year. I mean lets say we do 2 per year (as suggested) who are the first redskin's inducted?

IMO, Joe Gibbs has to be in the inaugural class. Who gets the other distinction?

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Hall of Shame eh.....I nominate Shar Pourdanesh, or as they call him in the streets of DC "Ole' False Start"
I love when names I haven't thought about in years pop up around here. It really makes me nostalgic or sometimes sick depending on the name.:)

[flave1969]

The more I think about it, the more keen I am to have a non Redskin player inducted every year.

I would like to see the following happen.

An inaugral class featuring Cliff Battles, Sammy Baugh and Turk Edwards, as well as two modern era candidates.

I would love to see also one other NFL player, who when inducted we could present a certificate to a fan board belonging to that team. I think it would bring some context to our process, and show our appreciation of Football as a whole.

That would make an initial class of 6.

To start with, for a player/coach/owner to be considered they must be nominated. I propose that a member can nominate three Redskins and one other NFL star.

Once nominations are closed, we then collate the list and begin the process of whittling down. I feel this is where we use a nominated committee to get down to a certain number of candidates maybe 16(12 Redskin, 4 NFL).

Then the membership votes it down to six (4 + 2), then we have a membership vote to elect the 2 + 1.

As far as the vote goes, we can make entry as tough or easy as possible at this stage. My inclination is that for a player to get in he must have received at least 70% of all votes cast with each hR member getting three votes.

At this stage I believe we should only allow one player at each position to make the final six. I do not want this to degenerate into a fierce debate on a positional level.

I think that we should iron out the criteria that we are expected to vote against. Do we vote purely on performance and character on the field, or should off field issues count. I love Dexter Manley and his performance was outstanding at times, but he obviously had off field flaws. I am inclined to keep it in context of what a player meant to the team during their playing days.

As I think of things I will pad it out. Your opinions s far.

[Ibleedburgundy]

An Inaugural class of Gus Ferrotte, Heath Shuler, and Norv turner?

...Spurrier, Tony Banks, and Ki-jana Carter.

[LATrueRedskin]

...Spurrier, Tony Banks, and Ki-jana Carter.

Al Noga is a first ballot lock. :)

I'd much rather see a "Redskins Only" ring of honor, rather than non-Redskins. We are a Skins site, obviously. And it'll be cool if people (myself included) volunteered to write a brief bio of the inductee.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Sounds like a great idea, count me in.

[SkinsGuru]

Just think . . . if we started off with 0 HailHOF members and only voted in 2 per year then we would be the ones snubbing some of the Redskin greats for years . . . think about it D. Green, A. Monk, J. Riggins, R. Grimm, etc . . . 2 of them would get snubbed . . . by US ! ! !

I think the first year we would have to vote on all the obvious ones and then go from there!!

[Redskin4Life]

I think the idea of having a Virtual NFL HOF would be great. It's pretty obvious to me that we've got a wealth of knowledge (referring to the hR as a whole) about recent players and teams but I think it would be fair to say that about half of us don't have the knowledge of the past like other members do cause they witnessed it or they've grown up around football all their lives. I unfortunately was one of the ones that was too young (I started watching the NFL when I was 16, my first SB was Parcells' Giants vs Levy's Bills) and I DIDN'T grow up with the NFL (my parents are Indian -- like from India -- and stressed education instead of sports). I would love the chance to get to learn about players from the past as well as arguing for and against guys that are in that I don't think belong.

I haven't read any of the other posts yet but I have some ideas:

1) We can only allow ONE Redskin in per cycle.... that would only be fair cause I think the "first HOF Class" would be all Skins

2) Everyone in the hR gets a vote and can nominate who they think should belong... caveat here is that if you nominate someone, you're responsible for backing up their claim to the VHall

3) Class matters and disrespecting the Hall can get you kicked out (of course you would need a majority vote -- 2/3)

4) This is the "Hall of Fame", not the "Hall of Stats".... a player that had a great but short-lived career can be argued in (ie Bo Jackson)

5) Every "cycle" doesn't necessarily have to be every year... since we're so far behind, why not make the VHall Inductions every 4 months??? Plenty of time to discuss players as well as keep interest in this venture.

That's all I could think of for now. But great idea...

[Redskin4Life]

Just think . . . if we started off with 0 HailHOF members and only voted in 2 per year then we would be the ones snubbing some of the Redskin greats for years . . . think about it D. Green, A. Monk, J. Riggins, R. Grimm, etc . . . 2 of them would get snubbed . . . by US ! ! !

I think the first year we would have to vote on all the obvious ones and then go from there!!
That's a great point... maybe we should go with "if they're in the HOF, they're in the HOF." So these guys would already be in:

GEORGE ALLEN (2002) - 1971-1977
CLIFF BATTLES (1968) - 1932, 1933-1936, 1937
SAMMY BAUGH (1963) - 1937-1952
BILL DUDLEY (1966) - 1950-1951, 1953
ALBERT GLEN (TURK) EDWARDS (1969) - 1932, 1933-1936, 1937-1940
RAY FLAHERTY (1976) - 1936-1942
JOE GIBBS (1996) - 1981-1992
KEN HOUSTON (1986) - 1973-1980
SAM HUFF (1982) - 1964-1967, 1969
SONNY JURGENSEN (1983) - 1964-1974
GEORGE PRESTON MARSHALL (1963) - 1932, 1933-1936, 1937-1969
WAYNE MILLNER (1968) - 1936-1941, 1945
BOBBY MITCHELL (1983) - 1962-1968
JOHN RIGGINS (1992) - 1976-1979, 1981-1985
CHARLEY TAYLOR (1984) - 1964-1975, 1977

[Redskin4Life]

I think the idea of having a Virtual NFL HOF would be great. It's pretty obvious to me that we've got a wealth of knowledge (referring to the hR as a whole) about recent players and teams but I think it would be fair to say that about half of us don't have the knowledge of the past like other members do cause they witnessed it or they've grown up around football all their lives. I unfortunately was one of the ones that was too young (I started watching the NFL when I was 16, my first SB was Parcells' Giants vs Levy's Bills) and I DIDN'T grow up with the NFL (my parents are Indian -- like from India -- and stressed education instead of sports). I would love the chance to get to learn about players from the past as well as arguing for and against guys that are in that I don't think belong.

I haven't read any of the other posts yet but I have some ideas:

1) We can only allow ONE Redskin in per cycle.... that would only be fair cause I think the "first HOF Class" would be all Skins

2) Everyone in the hR gets a vote and can nominate who they think should belong... caveat here is that if you nominate someone, you're responsible for backing up their claim to the VHall

3) Class matters and disrespecting the Hall can get you kicked out (of course you would need a majority vote -- 2/3)

4) This is the "Hall of Fame", not the "Hall of Stats".... a player that had a great but short-lived career can be argued in (ie Bo Jackson)

5) Every "cycle" doesn't necessarily have to be every year... since we're so far behind, why not make the VHall Inductions every 4 months??? Plenty of time to discuss players as well as keep interest in this venture.

That's all I could think of for now. But great idea...
Oh and forget point (1)....

[Dolla Bill]

I'm in, sounds like a great idea, but who would be the panelists? A public open poll?

[smoak]

An Inaugural class of Gus Ferrotte, Heath Shuler, and Norv turner?

??? There are a lot of guys who should get in before Gus who was an average QB here?? Heath Shuler was 100x worse IMO. And I couldn't agree more with Keino on Shar Pourdanesh.... UGH! How annoying was he?

As much as I like the idea, I adamantly disagree with Gus who was neither HOF nor HOS material.

[smoak]

That's a great point... maybe we should go with "if they're in the HOF, they're in the HOF." So these guys would already be in:

GEORGE ALLEN (2002) - 1971-1977
CLIFF BATTLES (1968) - 1932, 1933-1936, 1937
SAMMY BAUGH (1963) - 1937-1952
BILL DUDLEY (1966) - 1950-1951, 1953
ALBERT GLEN (TURK) EDWARDS (1969) - 1932, 1933-1936, 1937-1940
RAY FLAHERTY (1976) - 1936-1942
JOE GIBBS (1996) - 1981-1992
KEN HOUSTON (1986) - 1973-1980
SAM HUFF (1982) - 1964-1967, 1969
SONNY JURGENSEN (1983) - 1964-1974
GEORGE PRESTON MARSHALL (1963) - 1932, 1933-1936, 1937-1969
WAYNE MILLNER (1968) - 1936-1941, 1945
BOBBY MITCHELL (1983) - 1962-1968
JOHN RIGGINS (1992) - 1976-1979, 1981-1985
CHARLEY TAYLOR (1984) - 1964-1975, 1977

Is someone willing to make a case against anyone here? I've always said that while I think Riggins is a Pro Bowl guy, the only reason he made it so easily is the Super Bowl run. Take that away and he is probably not in the HOF today... The media voters overrate a big play/game on the Super Bowl IMO.

Also, starting with that list says we agree with the voting committe and I don't think we can choose when we do and don't abide by their decisions. Flip them off and lets do this ourselves.

[LATrueRedskin]

We could also make a case for guys like Frank Herzog or "The Hogettes", who have equally been a part of Redskins history.

[smoak]

We could also make a case for guys like Frank Herzog or "The Hogettes", who have equally been a part of Redskins history.

I second that and would like to add Chief. Guys who have been a part of this team year in and year out for decades and have come to embody (in some way) what it means to be a Redskin.

[flave1969]

Just think . . . if we started off with 0 HailHOF members and only voted in 2 per year then we would be the ones snubbing some of the Redskin greats for years . . . think about it D. Green, A. Monk, J. Riggins, R. Grimm, etc . . . 2 of them would get snubbed . . . by US ! ! !

I think the first year we would have to vote on all the obvious ones and then go from there!!

I am all for the current Hall of Famers being in the first class.

After that it depends on what you feel the class size should be. If we vote in all the obvious ones we may as well just take the 70 greatest Redskins and be done with it right now. That has already happened. This is an opportunity to do with dignity what the hacks fail to do.

I am all for the class size being bigger but very quickly we could be at the debate that hits that barn in Canton. Where we are guilty of arguing back and forth between Hall of fame and Hall of very good, albeit in a Redskins context.

This forum is here for ideas, so roughly how do you see it proceeding on a worthwhile basis.

[redskin_rich]

??? There are a lot of guys who should get in before Gus who was an average QB here?? Heath Shuler was 100x worse IMO. And I couldn't agree more with Keino on Shar Pourdanesh.... UGH! How annoying was he?

As much as I like the idea, I adamantly disagree with Gus who was neither HOF nor HOS material.
Agreed but Gus does have a signature play:

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/2285/gusheadbangjo1.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[LATrueRedskin]

It depends on what you feel the class size should be. If we vote in all the obvious ones we may as well just take the 70 greatest Redskins and be done with it right now. That has already happened.

I am all for the class size being bigger but very quickly we could be at the debate that hits that barn in Canton. Where we are guilty of arguing back and forth between Hall of fame and Hall of very good, albeit in a Redskins context.

This forum is here for ideas, so roughly how do you see it proceeding on a worthwhile basis.

I think we should definately do it incrementally, with 5 or so elected each year. It'll make it more meaningful that way I think. They people that are worthy enough will eventually get in regardless.

[redskin_rich]

My suggestions-

-Redskins only.
-Start with 5 minimum, 10 max, for inaugural year. Maybe start with 5 from past era(pre 1960's) and 5 from modern era ('70s - current).
-3 max, 2 min per year after inaugural year.

[HAWGZHEAD]

Sounds good to me. I think we should do Skins only, maybe we could do non-skins in the NFL forum. Man with all these people calling for character flaws to count how am I gonna get Manley into this thing?

[csquared]

I like the idea. I like it even more with it including players from all teams. Makes it more interesting. Imagine Jerry Rice getting a certificate from Hailredskins.com inducting him into our Hall.

[superskin]

I'm all for it. Why not?

[Carmelo]

Making it as legitimate as possible, I like the idea.

[WRSK1NS]

As long as I can vote w/o the fear that someone will know who I voted for and/or why I voted for them! Oh wait, thats the real Hall of Shame voting process.... :)

This one sounds much better....GO FOR IT!

[smoak]

Agreed but Gus does have a signature play:

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/2285/gusheadbangjo1.gif (http://imageshack.us)

LMAO! And we all know that is ALL that matter when getting into the reral HOF. I say he is a lock. :D

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Just think . . . if we started off with 0 HailHOF members and only voted in 2 per year then we would be the ones snubbing some of the Redskin greats for years . . . think about it D. Green, A. Monk, J. Riggins, R. Grimm, etc . . . 2 of them would get snubbed . . . by US ! ! !

I think the first year we would have to vote on all the obvious ones and then go from there!!
I disagree with this. I think keeping the class size small would make the debates more fun. Guys may be snubbed for a period, but they will eventually get in. I would like for a debate to come down to Riggins vs. Charley Taylor or something like that. It would make the process more interesting.

[nicefellow31]

I like this idea. I saw a fansite of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and they have one.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

Sounds good, who is eligible. It sounds like a good idea as long as all the members of HR get to vote.

[Wild Bore]

Great idea, I think. One caution: How do we avoid the problem of "latest = greatest" that we see happen each year in the best ever series. Some may not see that a problem, but I do. It needs to be a well balanced committee.

[Smiley]

YES!