Chargers | Turner the choice

[The Game]

Chargers | Turner the favorite for head coaching position
Sun, 18 Feb 2007 22:25:30 -0800

Jay Glazer, of FOXSports.com, reports the San Diego Chargers appear to be leaning towards San Francisco 49ers offensive coordinator Norv Turner as their next head coach. The Chargers are talking to Turner as if they are looking to hire him. Sources say Turner is leaning toward hiring former defensive coordinator Ted Cottrell to run the team's defense. Cottrell worked in the league office this past season. Chargers general manager A.J. Smith had talks with Turner late Sunday, Feb. 18, and even talked contract figures with him.


http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl

[SpicyMcHaggis]

:lol1:

[The Game]

:lol1:



FSR is reporting right now that Norv will be hired. The guys on FSR are saying they're going to the super bowl.

[WarEagle]

I don't think Norv interviews well.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

FSR is reporting right now that Norv will be hired. The guys on FSR are saying they're going to the super bowl.
Which sector do they have tickets for?

[The Game]

Which sector do they have tickets for?


They are saying the chargers are going with Norv to the SB.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

They are saying the chargers are going with Norv to the SB.
Yeah, I get that..that's why I was asking what sector of the stadium the Chargers players and Norv got tickets for..

[The_Sonny_Of_Sammy]

The Chargers are lucky to have "The Offensive Genius".
Norv's coaching record
Redskins: 49 wins - 59 losses
Raiders: 9 wins - 23 losses

[akhhorus]

I thought the chargers fired marty because he couldn't win the big game, how does Norv improve from that?

[redskin_rich]

I have been hearing that AJ Smith wants a defensive minded coach. Rex Ryan was supposedly the favorite to land that job.

[shally]

http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl

daily double.. turner to ruin the offense.. cottrell to ruin the defense

talk about sky high expectations.. norv ought to be firing the kicker by game 6

[shally]

I have been hearing that AJ Smith wants a defensive minded coach. Rex Ryan was supposedly the favorite to land that job.

what aj wants is a coach he can keep under his thumb.. norv might have grown a little spine in dallas. maybe he is what smith wants and, maybe not..

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I thought there was no way the Chargers could ruin the team, but those two hires could certainly do that.

If they really hire Norv to coach, all I can say is wow!

[shally]

I thought there was no way the Chargers could ruin the team, but those two hires could certainly do that.

If they really hire Norv to coach, all I can say is wow!

again, it gives voice for the necessity of the rooney rule.. why should a tool like norv get a third chance before other qualified coaches, white, black or whatever get a first chance ??

[CarMike]

I don't think Norv interviews well.
Coach either.

Then again, I don't think even Norv can screw up that offense. Then again, you never know.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

again, it gives voice for the necessity of the rooney rule.. why should a tool like norv get a third chance before other qualified coaches, white, black or whatever get a first chance ??
I agree. Its hard to believe that Turner could actually get rewarded by being the HC of maybe the best team in the league.

Funny, if Norv does get the job, Jones did him a big favor by hiring Wade.

[Farmer Ted]

I thought the chargers fired marty because he couldn't win the big game, how does Norv improve from that?

Now they don't have to worry about playing in the big game. You can't lose if you don't play.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Now they don't have to worry about playing in the big game. You can't lose if you don't play.
They didn't have to worry about that before either...but akh's right..if they do hire Turner, it is just ridiculous...you get rid of Marty if you have either a very good young assistant that can be successful, or a proven veteran coach who has already done well in the playoffs..

[Farmer Ted]

I agree. Its hard to believe that Turner could actually get rewarded by being the HC of maybe the best team in the league.

Funny, if Norv does get the job, Jones did him a big favor by hiring Wade.

It's a crazy business. I bet Wade Phillips would've preferred to coach the Chargers, but the only reason the job became available was because Phillips was hired by Dallas. Gee, who would you rather have as your head coach if you're San Diego: Wade Phillips or Norv? I think it's a slam-dunk that you'd rather have Phillips. His career coaching record doesn't look so bad when you compare him to Norv. Heck, he was 29-19 in Buffalo, and look at what they've done since then (http://www.profootballreference.com/teams/bufindex.htm). The Chargers should've just fired Marty right off the bat, before they let all of their coaches leave for other jobs. AJ Smith really screwed that up. The good news for the Chargers is that Norv is going to be on a short leash, and he won't be allowed to let all of the talent leave the team so he can bring in his guys.

I've always been a bit on the fence about the Rooney Rule. I think it can be pretty demeaning to guys like Dennis Green when a team has already picked their coach, but they have to make a "token" call to someone like Green, and perhaps interview him, just to satisfy league requirements. But it is clearly necessary if teams are willing to keep giving losers like Norv head coaching jobs. San Diego should be embarassed that they can't find someone better. Just put a list of assistant's names on a bulletin board and throw a dart, and you'll probably make a better choice.

[akhhorus]

PFT is saying they hired norv.

Something else i just realized: Norv has a ZERO tolerance policy when it comes to steroids. Me thinks him and Merriman aren't going to get along well.

[The Game]

Chargers | Turner hired as new head coach
Mon, 19 Feb 2007 08:12:02 -0800

Jay Glazer, of FOXSports.com, reports the San Diego Chargers have hired Norv Turner as their new head coach. Terms of the deal were undisclosed. Turner had been serving as the offensive coordinator for the San Francisco 49ers.

http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/index



ITS OFFiCIAL

[smoak]

http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/index



ITS OFFiCIAL

It is also official that I now hate that team and want them to fail miserably.

[The Game]

It is also official that I now hate that team and want them to fail miserably.



LOL, They will with Norvell.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I cannot believe this man was handed keys to a vehicle like that. Like Farmer Ted said above, Wade Phillips must be kicking himself.

[redskin_rich]

Unbelievable! Norv must have made a deal with the devil.
AJ Smith just ruined his track record.

[Dolla Bill]

I did like this team. Notice the word, did.

[RedskinsDave]

If he gets a decent DC, they will do well. Turner doesn't have to do much with this team. He has been given a gift here. Even he may not be able to screw this one up.

[The Game]

If he gets a decent DC, they will do well. Turner doesn't have to do much with this team. He has been given a gift here. Even he may not be able to screw this one up.



Ted cotrell is there DC as widely reported.

[whistleandthumb]

Man, the Charger fans are going to destroy ownership and AJ Smith if Turner doesn't put up Marty-like numbers. Who the heck fires Marty for Norval?!?!? Sheesh... Dark day to be a Chargers fan...

[Aurej]

Norv Turner is the Chargers new head coach. Special Report on ESPN by the ESPNNEWS announced it at about 1:00 PM

[daEz0r]

best wishes to him, maybe he'll take them to the superbowl... i mean they have a truck-load of talent.

[hail2skins]

Norv Turner is the Chargers new head coach. Special Report on ESPN by the ESPNNEWS announced it at about 1:00 PMYou must include a link with this info when you post it.

Here is one

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2771126

[Fathead]

The chargers are dumb.

[C-7]

Thats anazing. How many chances is this fool going to get? How many times does someone have to fail before its understood that person is no good. Watch the Chargers finish just above .500.

[WinnpegSkinsFan]

Thats anazing. How many chances is this fool going to get? How many times does someone have to fail before its understood that person is no good. Watch the Chargers finish just above .500.


Oh yeah. turner doesn't realize that he has reached his level of maximum competance at O-coordinator. Oh well, there's another team we won't have to worry about facing in the Super Bowl.

[C-7]

Oh yeah. turner doesn't realize that he has reached his level of maximum competance at O-coordinator. Oh well, there's another team we won't have to worry about facing in the Super Bowl.



Did I miss something? We're going to the superbowl? :lol1:

[Aurej]

You must include a link with this info when you post it.

Here is one

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2771126

I learned it from the TV, I know I should link but there wasn't one yet.

[shally]

i guess they feel the defense can run itself.. and rivers needs a guiding hand

still a foolish choice

[SkinsfaninNJ]

i guess they feel the defense can run itself.. and rivers needs a guiding hand

still a foolish choice
Aren't they bring in Cotrell? I would not consider that a great choice either but he is well versed in the 3-4.

[Meatsnack]

The question is does this:

LT (Emmitt Smith)
Gates (Jay Novacek)
Lorenzo Neal (Daryl Johnston)
Phillip Rivers (Aikman)
Marcus McNeil (Larry Allen)

Outweigh the inherent Norv "suck" factor? He certainly has more tools at his disposal that at any time since 1992. I for one don't think Norv could win a bet to melt snow in Hell but that is just me.

Death to Norv! :guillo:

[SkinsfaninNJ]

The question is does this:

LT (Emmitt Smith)
Gates (Jay Novacek)
Lorenzo Neal (Daryl Johnston)
Phillip Rivers (Aikman)
Marcus McNeil (Larry Allen)

Outweigh the inherent Norv "suck" factor? He certainly has more tools at his disposal that at any time since 1992. I for one don't think Norv could win a bet to melt snow in Hell but that is just me.

Death to Norv! :guillo:
I think all of these tools would be great for Norv...if Jimmy Johnson were the HC.

[Biggie]

Worst.

Decision.

Ever.

And I really thought the Chargers were going to be a contender for a few years to come. :banghead:

[akhhorus]

Considering that they went from one ex-Redskins scrub coach to another, maybe they should target Spurrier or Petibon if/when they fire Norv?

[shally]

Considering that they went from one ex-Redskins scrub coach to another, maybe they should target Spurrier or Petibon if/when they fire Norv?


shoot.. clone some of lombardi's dna and be done with it...

[The Skinsinator]

They are crazy if they truly believe this man can get them past the hump. No way. I wouldn't even want him over Cameron as the o-coordinator. I wonder what the players think of Marty's removal and Turner now in charge. Turner's coaching in the nfl keeps running in circles. Sucks as head coach and gets fired. Does well as offensive coordintor. Leaves to suck again as main man in charge. Horrible management of the entire coaching situation in SD.

[shally]

They are crazy if they truly believe this man can get them past the hump. No way. I wouldn't even want him over Cameron as the o-coordinator. I wonder what the players think of Marty's removal and Turner now in charge. Turner's coaching in the nfl keeps running in circles. Sucks as head coach and gets fired. Does well as offensive coordintor. Leaves to suck again as main man in charge. Horrible management of the entire coaching situation in SD.

there had been some rumbles that smith was in danger of getting canned soon as well... might be a desperation move on his part to save his job.. as lame as norv is, he wont have the learning curve of a rookie coach

[silverspring]

I thought the chargers fired marty because he couldn't win the big game, how does Norv improve from that?

Good question. This move is very odd. Norv turned might be the luckiest man alive to get a 3rd chance and to get one with an all pro team handed to him on a platter.

[The Skinsinator]

Turner is getting in way over his head here. Will this man ever learn that he's not meant to be an nfl head coach? The expectations are and should be high in SD. If he comes close to what Martyball did last season I would be very surprised. Unbelievably, Jerruh can even understand to not hire him as hc.

[The Game]

http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl


Chargers | Cottrell hired as defensive coordinator
Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:50:47 -0800

The San Diego Chargers have officially announced hiring Ted Cottrell as the team's new defensive coordinator.

[The Skinsinator]

The rumor I heard was that Turner didn't care who the d-coordinator was contrary to some other candidates. This made him more attractive to the Chargers. Now where does Marty go? Dude has gotta be getting a bit burnt out.

[RedskinRyan]

The rumor I heard was that Turner didn't care who the d-coordinator was contrary to some other candidates. This made him more attractive to the Chargers. Now where does Marty go? Dude has gotta be getting a bit burnt out.

prolly has no choice but to take the year off now....some team will come calling next year.

[The Skinsinator]

prolly has no choice but to take the year off now....some team will come calling next year.The man may end up dying trying to get to the super bowl. Maybe a team should fire him after he takes them to the playoffs and let someone else takeover then. :rolleyes:

[shally]

The rumor I heard was that Turner didn't care who the d-coordinator was contrary to some other candidates. This made him more attractive to the Chargers. Now where does Marty go? Dude has gotta be getting a bit burnt out.

i am not sure that was the case.. he had definite ideas about his coordinators in dallas and that did not set to well with jerruh...

[shally]

prolly has no choice but to take the year off now....some team will come calling next year.

marty likely goes to the tv booth.. where he was before the skins hired him..

[schmitty199]

Random but there's a undefeated wrestler in Iowa name Marty Ball...... haha. :lol1:

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

It is also official that I now hate that team and want them to fail miserably.
LOL! you and me both smoak. what an improvement for the chargers. :rolleyes: timing really is everything. if marty were fired after the season, wade phillips wouldve been SD's new coach and norv would be coaching in dallass.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

Random but there's a undefeated wrestler in Iowa name Marty Ball...... haha. :lol1:
LOL, is he a conservative wrestler? does he have a good choke hold move?

[whitskins]

LOL! you and me both smoak. what an improvement for the chargers. :rolleyes: timing really is everything. if marty were fired after the season, wade phillips wouldve been SD's new coach and norv would be coaching in dallass.

I thought about that too but I think it was actually Wade's absence from SD that lead to Marty's firing because he wanted to bring his brother to replace Wade, but Smith wanted to hire Cotrell. So it was actually Norv not getting the Dallas job that lead to Marty's firing.

But Norv not getting the Dallas job was because he didn't want to make Garrett his OC, and Garrett was allowed to leave Miami by Cam Cameron after he took over for Saban. So it was actually Saban leaving Miami that lead to Garrett going to Dallas, which prevented Norv from getting the Cowboys job, forcing them to pick Wade, which then resulted in Marty's firing and Norv going to SD.

So the moral of the story is blame Daunte Culpepper!

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

I thought about that too but I think it was actually Wade's absence from SD that lead to Marty's firing because he wanted to bring his brother to replace Wade, but Smith wanted to hire Cotrell. So it was actually Norv not getting the Dallas job that lead to Marty's firing.

But Norv not getting the Dallas job was because he didn't want to make Garrett his OC, and Garrett was allowed to leave Miami by Cam Cameron after he took over for Saban. So it was actually Saban leaving Miami that lead to Garrett going to Dallas, which prevented Norv from getting the Cowboys job, forcing them to pick Wade, which then resulted in Marty's firing and Norv going to SD.

So the moral of the story is blame Daunte Culpepper!
i think i get it, lol. thanks for setting me straight whit. that makes sense. one common denominator though is that dallass is still going to suck. :p

[FanFromArizona]

I thought about that too but I think it was actually Wade's absence from SD that lead to Marty's firing because he wanted to bring his brother to replace Wade, but Smith wanted to hire Cotrell. So it was actually Norv not getting the Dallas job that lead to Marty's firing.

But Norv not getting the Dallas job was because he didn't want to make Garrett his OC, and Garrett was allowed to leave Miami by Cam Cameron after he took over for Saban. So it was actually Saban leaving Miami that lead to Garrett going to Dallas, which prevented Norv from getting the Cowboys job, forcing them to pick Wade, which then resulted in Marty's firing and Norv going to SD.

So the moral of the story is blame Daunte Culpepper!

that is hurting my brain trying to contemplate who said what to whom?
I think I'll go with blaming Jerruh, because in the end, Dallas will still suck.

[CNYSkinFan]

Norv Turner is luckier then a bum tripping over a bag of coke and landing in a stripper's dressing room.

What makes me sick is Norv may just win a Superbowl with this talent, they may be so good that not even Norv can screw it up.

[shally]

Norv Turner is luckier then a bum tripping over a bag of coke and landing in a stripper's dressing room.

What makes me sick is Norv may just win a Superbowl with this talent, they may be so good that not even Norv can screw it up.

no.. karma will get him... or at least, lack of ability will get him..

[BurgundyNGold]

Man, the Charger fans are going to destroy ownership and AJ Smith if Turner doesn't put up Marty-like numbers. Who the heck fires Marty for Norval?!?!? Sheesh... Dark day to be a Chargers fan...
I just realized, we fired Norv for Marty, lol.

[BurgundyNGold]

And so begins the decline of a never proud franchise.

[shally]

And so begins the decline of a never proud franchise.

meh... chargers, clippers, same thing..

[HanburgerBum]

Norv Turner just hit the lottery. The Chargers may have the most talented roster in the League.

And, those who are making fun of Norv now may do well to remember that Barry Switzer won a SB with the Cowboys, and NT is a lot smarter than Barry.

In my opinion, Norv did a pretty good job his last two years with the Skins.
In his penultimate year, he won the East and a first playoff game. He came very close to beating Tampa to advance to the NFC championship game (a botched snap on a FG try and a subsequent non-call when the TE was mugged by Tampa on Brad Johnson's desperation pass on the same play cost the Skins a chance to win).

Then, the following year (Norv's last), he had the Skins 6-2 at the midway point after having beaten the Rams in St.Louis. That was definitely a playoff caliber team, only to be betrayed by the lack of a reliable kicker (Conway got hurt and the Skins chose not to keep David Akers after he missed two long attempts). If Norv had made the playoffs that year, he may still be coaching the Skins now.

While Jimmy Johnson would have been my first choice if I were AJ Smith, I wouldn't be shocked either if Norv finds success in SD.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

meh... chargers, clippers, same thing..
Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing...a proud franchise? The Chargers??

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Norv Turner just hit the lottery. The Chargers may have the most talented roster in the League.

And, those who are making fun of Norv now may do well to remember that Barry Switzer won a SB with the Cowboys, and NT is a lot smarter than Barry.

In my opinion, Norv did a pretty good job his last two years with the Skins.
In his penultimate year, he won the East and a first playoff game. He came very close to beating Tampa to advance to the NFC championship game (a botched snap on a FG try and a subsequent non-call when the TE was mugged by Tampa on Brad Johnson's desperation pass on the same play cost the Skins a chance to win).

Then, the following year (Norv's last), he had the Skins 6-2 at the midway point after having beaten the Rams in St.Louis. That was definitely a playoff caliber team, only to be betrayed by the lack of a reliable kicker (Conway got hurt and the Skins chose not to keep David Akers after he missed two long attempts). If Norv had made the playoffs that year, he may still be coaching the Skins now.

While Jimmy Johnson would have been my first choice if I were AJ Smith, I wouldn't be shocked either if Norv finds success in SD.
I don't know. To me Norv will not be remembered as the guy who built up the 7-1 record and the 6-2 record, but rather as the guy who let those great records slip away down the stretch when a coach is really needed to push his team over the finish line.

[wewantdallas]

I don't know. To me Norv will not be remembered as the guy who built up the 7-1 record and the 6-2 record, but rather as the guy who let those great records slip away down the stretch when a coach is really needed to push his team over the finish line.

Exactly. People put too much stock in that record when he was fired in 2000. I was at some of those games when they started to tank, and it was some of the worst football I've ever seen. Just terrible.

I think the only reason he won in 1999 was the fact that Snyder lit a fire under him and the whole team, basically telling Norv, "this is your final chance to keep your job." If Snyder had bought the team a few months earlier, he'd have fired Norv, as he didn't think much of him to begin with.

Norv is an awful head coach. Just terrible. Good lord, you fire Marty for not being able to win the big game and bring in....NORV???? At least Marty gets you to the point where you COULD win it all.

Norv Turner. The Grand Poobah of Eternal Mediocrity. If you're lucky.

[The Skinsinator]

Norv is an awful head coach. Just terrible. Good lord, you fire Marty for not being able to win the big game and bring in....NORV???? At least Marty gets you to the point where you COULD win it all.Words of wisdom. That sd-ne game was primed for what happened and SD still had a good chance to win the game. You can't blame the entire loss on Schottenheimer.

[shally]

Words of wisdom. That sd-ne game was primed for what happened and SD still had a good chance to win the game. You can't blame the entire loss on Schottenheimer.

sure we can...:rolleyes:

[HanburgerBum]

Words of wisdom. That sd-ne game was primed for what happened and SD still had a good chance to win the game. You can't blame the entire loss on Schottenheimer.


Actually, Marty is exactly where the blame for the NE loss should lie.

The Chargers were in control until the dumb interception/fumble. No DB should intercept a ball thrown downfield on 4th down. Just knock it down and take possession. One would think that a well-coached team wouldn't make that type of a mistake. Some people argue that a team reflects its coaching. Anyhow, it is arguable whether Marty should be blamed for that horrible mistake by one of his DBs.

What is not arguable is the time mangement by Marty after that. First, he wasted a timeout challenging the fumble that was not a close call. Then, when SD still had at least one timeout remaining, Marty allowed NE to run the clock down from 1:50 to 1:10 before kicking what proved to be the winning FG. That is inexcusible. A high school coach would know that, when a team is behind or expected to be behind in short order, timeouts are called on defense, not offense (because one could always hurry on offense to save time, and one could always line up and spike the ball to get the FG team onto the field).

How did the Chargers lose? They ran out of time and had to try a 54-yard FG. If they had 20 more seconds, they could have gotten closer for a more realistic attempt. Marty does not think well on his feet--it's not an accident that his playoff record (5-13) is so dismal.

[HanburgerBum]

I don't know. To me Norv will not be remembered as the guy who built up the 7-1 record and the 6-2 record, but rather as the guy who let those great records slip away down the stretch when a coach is really needed to push his team over the finish line.


NJ, I agree that Norv's overall headcoaching record is not good. But, I think he has a brilliant offensive mind. Admittedly, Norv tends to run a loose ship. If that's a concern, he is not the right man for the job. But, if you are not looking for a coach to crack the whip, but are just looking for a guy that can think on his feet in the playoffs, Norv can do that much better than Marty can.

I remain convinced that Norv's last Redskins team would have made some noise in the playoffs had he not lost his kicker Conway or if the special team coach was smart enough to keep David Akers.

Norv has never had a roster as talented as the one he just took over. He has not proven (as Marty has) that he can not win big games. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if both you and wewantdallas end up being wrong about what Norv will accomplish in SD.

[wewantdallas]

Marty does not think well on his feet--it's not an accident that his playoff record (5-13) is so dismal.

That is truly a terrible postseason record.

Norv actually has a higher winning percentage. Then again, Norv is 1-1 in the playoffs all-time.

But I would like to see some numbers backing up Norv's "offensive genius" thing, too. I've heard this ever since he left the Cowboys, where admittedly the results were spectacular. But to my knowledge, he hasn't come close to duplicating those results since, and yet he's still labeled as a "brilliant offensive mind."

Maybe the stats are there and I just haven't noticed them.

It will be very interesting to see where the Chargers end up next season. Norv has inherited a great team for once in his career. He blew his Snyder excuse when he failed with the Raiders (he talked about how Davis was so great because he "knew and understood football." Didn't translate to wins, did it, Norv?).

If he fails in San Diego, i.e. if he doesn't get farther than Marty did, he will have proven COMPLETELY that he is a horrible head coach, no more excuses. We shall see...

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Ever since CarMike put up the link to other teams message boards on this site, I love to lurk once in a while when something big happens. The SD board is particularly funny with Turner.

Its almost like the 5 stages of the Turner hiring over there. Yesterday there was a lot of denial first when the reports where only rumor, then anger (lots and lots of anger), then some bargaining claiming Norv is a package deal with Cottrell and Riveral, and "that's not so bad", then depression knowing that they're team is going to fall apart, and finally acceptance. A full day later there seems to be people who are starting to justify the hiring because "Turner never had a chance to succeed as Redskin or Raider HC."

Very funny stuff.

[redskin_rich]

That is truly a terrible postseason record.

Norv actually has a higher winning percentage. Then again, Norv is 1-1 in the playoffs all-time.

But I would like to see some numbers backing up Norv's "offensive genius" thing, too. I've heard this ever since he left the Cowboys, where admittedly the results were spectacular. But to my knowledge, he hasn't come close to duplicating those results since, and yet he's still labeled as a "brilliant offensive mind."

Maybe the stats are there and I just haven't noticed them.

It will be very interesting to see where the Chargers end up next season. Norv has inherited a great team for once in his career. He blew his Snyder excuse when he failed with the Raiders (he talked about how Davis was so great because he "knew and understood football." Didn't translate to wins, did it, Norv?).

If he fails in San Diego, i.e. if he doesn't get farther than Marty did, he will have proven COMPLETELY that he is a horrible head coach, no more excuses. We shall see...
In '99, Norv's offense was the 2nd best in the NFL, both in yards and scoring (the Rams "Greatest show on turf" was 1st in both). Considering the talent or lack thereof we had, I think it was pretty impressive. Our WR's were Westbrook and Connell and both had 1000 yd seasons. Our QB was Brad Johnson, who threw for 4000 yds and our RB was Steven Davis. Davis was the only one who I would say was a top player at his position.

Now personally, I think Norv is a good offensive mind but not a good head coach. This Chargers team seems to have discipline issues and that will only get worse under Norv.
I don't know where I saw the stat but I believe Norv has one of the worst records ever in close games (1 score or less). Of course, a part of that is because of the crappy Kickers we have had here.

[Meatsnack]

Did anyone else hear Norval's press conference in which he excused his lack of performance? He talked about how with the Raiders and Redskins he inherited "old" teams in the "bottom three on offense and defense". It is amazing the kind of crap revisionist history this atrophied gonad puts out. You were here in DC for 7 years, Norv. How long does it take to turn over a roster in the era of free agency? I hate that guy.

[Biggie]

Did anyone else hear Norval's press conference in which he excused his lack of performance? He talked about how with the Raiders and Redskins he inherited "old" teams in the "bottom three on offense and defense". It is amazing the kind of crap revisionist history this atrophied gonad puts out. You were here in DC for 7 years, Norv. How long does it take to turn over a roster in the era of free agency? I hate that guy.

Gibbs did it in a year.

[akhhorus]

Did anyone else hear Norval's press conference in which he excused his lack of performance? He talked about how with the Raiders and Redskins he inherited "old" teams in the "bottom three on offense and defense". It is amazing the kind of crap revisionist history this atrophied gonad puts out. You were here in DC for 7 years, Norv. How long does it take to turn over a roster in the era of free agency? I hate that guy.

To be fair, Norv had to turnover the roster he created also. That kinda thing takes time.

[shally]

In '99, Norv's offense was the 2nd best in the NFL, both in yards and scoring (the Rams "Greatest show on turf" was 1st in both). Considering the talent or lack thereof we had, I think it was pretty impressive. Our WR's were Westbrook and Connell and both had 1000 yd seasons. Our QB was Brad Johnson, who threw for 4000 yds and our RB was Steven Davis. Davis was the only one who I would say was a top player at his position.

Now personally, I think Norv is a good offensive mind but not a good head coach. This Chargers team seems to have discipline issues and that will only get worse under Norv.
I don't know where I saw the stat but I believe Norv has one of the worst records ever in close games (1 score or less). Of course, a part of that is because of the crappy Kickers we have had here.

like david akers... norv could not see what he had

[Farmer Ted]

How did the Chargers lose? They ran out of time and had to try a 54-yard FG. If they had 20 more seconds, they could have gotten closer for a more realistic attempt. Marty does not think well on his feet--it's not an accident that his playoff record (5-13) is so dismal.

I think it's convenient to lay all the blame on Marty, but not really accurate. Is it really his fault that they burned a timeout on the review? Honestly, that's up to the guys in the booth to decide. In the super bowl, and I believe in the 2nd half, the Colts made a bad decision to review a play that didn't look like it had a chance, and it wasn't overturned. Obviously, the Colts won, but no one went around screaming about Dungy burning timeouts. I wonder if they would have if the Colts had somehow lost? Also, having the extra time may not have mattered a whiff. Rivers didn't exactly play that well in crunch time during that game. If he'd made a few plays, it would all be academic and the Chargers would have won. Heck, if AJ Smith had kept Drew Brees like Marty wanted, it may not have been a contest.

[Too Many Weapons]

Did anyone else hear Norval's press conference in which he excused his lack of performance? He talked about how with the Raiders and Redskins he inherited "old" teams in the "bottom three on offense and defense". It is amazing the kind of crap revisionist history this atrophied gonad puts out. You were here in DC for 7 years, Norv. How long does it take to turn over a roster in the era of free agency? I hate that guy.The always clear eyed and logical Mark Schlereth made the same point on NFL Live. He has little tolerance for BS and made it plain that hiring Norv is a likely one way ticket to the ditch.

Always nice when you get hired and before the echoes of your last words at the press conference fade, two of your former players, (especially guys of the caliber of Stink and Jerry Rice), publicly shove you into a Cuisinart.

:lol1:

[shally]

The always clear eyed and logical Mark Schlereth made the same point on NFL Live. He has little tolerance for BS and made it plain that hiring Norv is a likely one way ticket to the ditch.

Always nice when you get hired and before the echoes of your last words at the press conference fade, two of your former players, (especially guys of the caliber of Stink and Jerry Rice), publicly shove you into a Cuisinart.

:lol1:

ahhh, norv, the perpetual punching bag.. it is only starting

[The Game]

The always clear eyed and logical Mark Schlereth made the same point on NFL Live. He has little tolerance for BS and made it plain that hiring Norv is a likely one way ticket to the ditch.

Always nice when you get hired and before the echoes of your last words at the press conference fade, two of your former players, (especially guys of the caliber of Stink and Jerry Rice), publicly shove you into a Cuisinart.

:lol1:


whos stink?

[Too Many Weapons]

That's Schlereth's nickname.

[joethefan]

Did anyone else hear Norval's press conference in which he excused his lack of performance? He talked about how with the Raiders and Redskins he inherited "old" teams in the "bottom three on offense and defense". It is amazing the kind of crap revisionist history this atrophied gonad puts out. You were here in DC for 7 years, Norv. How long does it take to turn over a roster in the era of free agency? I hate that guy.

all more reason to think that he'd better succeed....in the ifrst 2 years....cause 14-2 is hard to beat....and he hasn't had 1 playoff win since he was a head coach so he's under alot of pressure....and I think he will not be able to bring that team up to a lever marty had em...IMO....

[BurgundyNGold]

In '99, Norv's offense was the 2nd best in the NFL, both in yards and scoring (the Rams "Greatest show on turf" was 1st in both). Considering the talent or lack thereof we had, I think it was pretty impressive. Our WR's were Westbrook and Connell and both had 1000 yd seasons. Our QB was Brad Johnson, who threw for 4000 yds and our RB was Steven Davis. Davis was the only one who I would say was a top player at his position.

Now personally, I think Norv is a good offensive mind but not a good head coach. This Chargers team seems to have discipline issues and that will only get worse under Norv.
I don't know where I saw the stat but I believe Norv has one of the worst records ever in close games (1 score or less). Of course, a part of that is because of the crappy Kickers we have had here.
Norv had 7 years to build that team. If we had crappy recievers or crappy kickers it's because he wanted them. As I recall, Norv is the one who had to have Westbrook, Casserly wanted Galloway. Norv is a delusional mind.

[Patrick]

Norv's last chance as a HC and he knows it. Better get it right this time or he'll never get another opportunity. BUT what better team to take a gamble with (being a puppet coach) to rebuild your image.
I hope he does well and get's to the SB.............. vs the Redskins. Wouldn't that be sweet.

[HanburgerBum]

That is truly a terrible postseason record.

Norv actually has a higher winning percentage. Then again, Norv is 1-1 in the playoffs all-time.

But I would like to see some numbers backing up Norv's "offensive genius" thing, too. I've heard this ever since he left the Cowboys, where admittedly the results were spectacular. But to my knowledge, he hasn't come close to duplicating those results since, and yet he's still labeled as a "brilliant offensive mind."

Maybe the stats are there and I just haven't noticed them.

It will be very interesting to see where the Chargers end up next season. Norv has inherited a great team for once in his career. He blew his Snyder excuse when he failed with the Raiders (he talked about how Davis was so great because he "knew and understood football." Didn't translate to wins, did it, Norv?).

If he fails in San Diego, i.e. if he doesn't get farther than Marty did, he will have proven COMPLETELY that he is a horrible head coach, no more excuses. We shall see...


I don't have any stats.

But, when Norv was in Dallas, it had a great offense. In Wash, his last two teams were very good on offense. I don't think Oakland counts, because that was a terrible team, and old to boot. Finally, the 49ers are beginning to emerge as a pretty good team (and pretty good offense).

I certainly don't know for sure that Norv would win the SB in SD, but I believe he has a better shot at it than Marty (who has proved beyond any doubt that he can not win in the postseason).

[shally]

I don't have any stats.

But, when Norv was in Dallas, it had a great offense. In Wash, his last two teams were very good on offense. I don't think Oakland counts, because that was a terrible team, and old to boot. Finally, the 49ers are beginning to emerge as a pretty good team (and pretty good offense).

I certainly don't know for sure that Norv would win the SB in SD, but I believe he has a better shot at it than Marty (who has proved beyond any doubt that he can not win in the postseason).

norv wont be able to control the team if there is any adversity.. as long as things go well he will be fine.. as soon as anything bad happens the wheels will come off

[HanburgerBum]

I think it's convenient to lay all the blame on Marty, but not really accurate. Is it really his fault that they burned a timeout on the review? Honestly, that's up to the guys in the booth to decide. In the super bowl, and I believe in the 2nd half, the Colts made a bad decision to review a play that didn't look like it had a chance, and it wasn't overturned. Obviously, the Colts won, but no one went around screaming about Dungy burning timeouts. I wonder if they would have if the Colts had somehow lost? Also, having the extra time may not have mattered a whiff. Rivers didn't exactly play that well in crunch time during that game. If he'd made a few plays, it would all be academic and the Chargers would have won. Heck, if AJ Smith had kept Drew Brees like Marty wanted, it may not have been a contest.


So, it's the fault of the "guys in the booth" for burning a timeout on the ridiculous challenge? How do we know that the guys in the booth told Marty to make that challenge? And, who is the ultimate decider on such issues? Not the head coach?

Even assuming it's not completely Marty's fault on the challenge, what's his excuse for letting the clock run down from 1:50 to 1:10 before NE's winning kick? Nobody on his staff told him to call time out?

Thirteen playoff seasons and not a single appearance in the championship game. His last two playoff tries with very good SD teams both ended up in first-game losses. Face it, Marty has PROVEN that he can not win in the post season.

As for Dungy, his career had some of the same characteristics as Marty's. I don't think Tony is particularly good on the sidelines either. But, at least he overcame it this year (and it didn't take 13 tries to do so).

As to whether Brees would have won a SB for SD this year, no one will ever know. For one thing, he would have to overcome the typical stupid coaching Marty does in the playoffs.

As for Rivers, he had a decent (if not spectacular) year and a decent playoff game. He got the Chargers downfield in the last minute, only to be betrayed by a coach who didn't have a clue about time management.

[Farmer Ted]

So, it's the fault of the "guys in the booth" for burning a timeout on the ridiculous challenge?

Yes, it is. Have you ever seen a head coach with a tv and instant replay on the sidelines? They wear a headset for a reason, and this is one of them.

I mean, so what if Marty has a crappy post-season record? There are 32 teams in the league, meaning you have a 3.1% chance of winning it all in any given year. At least he consistently puts together a quality team, year in and year out. I could live with that right about now. The man's record is 200-136. That's an average of 9.8-6.2 per season. How many times have the Redskins gone 10-6 or better since their last super bowl win? That would be twice, and I was jumping up and down going crazy each time, which is really pretty pathetic, when you think about it. If you told me the Skins would go 10-6 each of the next five years, with a 2-4 record in the post-season, I'd probably take it. Marty may never have won it all, but his career really isn't all that different from another Hall of Fame coach who had a 2-7 career record in the post-season. Other than making it to one super bowl, this guy got skunked in all of his other trips to the playoffs. Then the Redskins fired him, and replaced him with a tool named Jack Pardee. Yay! That was a big improvement. Not. I bet George Allen could've done better than .500 from '78 to '80. The Redskins wouldn't have won any super bowls, but probably would have been more enjoyable to watch. I have a feeling that Chargers fans are going to be as disappointed (if not more) with the switch to Norv (aka Mr. Roper) as Skins fans were with the switch to Pardee.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Yes, it is. Have you ever seen a head coach with a tv and instant replay on the sidelines? They wear a headset for a reason, and this is one of them.

I mean, so what if Marty has a crappy post-season record? There are 32 teams in the league, meaning you have a 3.1% chance of winning it all in any given year. At least he consistently puts together a quality team, year in and year out. I could live with that right about now. The man's record is 200-136. That's an average of 9.8-6.2 per season. How many times have the Redskins gone 10-6 or better since their last super bowl win? That would be twice, and I was jumping up and down going crazy each time, which is really pretty pathetic, when you think about it. If you told me the Skins would go 10-6 each of the next five years, with a 2-4 record in the post-season, I'd probably take it. Marty may never have won it all, but his career really isn't all that different from another Hall of Fame coach who had a 2-7 career record in the post-season. Other than making it to one super bowl, this guy got skunked in all of his other trips to the playoffs. Then the Redskins fired him, and replaced him with a tool named Jack Pardee. Yay! That was a big improvement. Not. I bet George Allen could've done better than .500 from '78 to '80. The Redskins wouldn't have won any super bowls, but probably would have been more enjoyable to watch. I have a feeling that Chargers fans are going to be as disappointed (if not more) with the switch to Norv (aka Mr. Roper) as Skins fans were with the switch to Pardee.
What's the use of making the playoffs every single year when you consistently fail in the first game? It's impossible to judge Marty as a coach without considering his incredible playoff failures..I mean, this guy has had the #1 seed in the AFC 4 times and never even made it to the Championship game..that's almost unbelievable.
And you can't judge Marty by our standards..unfortunately we have been one of the worst teams in the NFlL in the last 13 years, so we aren't a very good comparison...
But I agree with you that they will be disappointed with Norv..he is so bad he can't even get his teams to the playoffs..I think he's made them once in 9 tries...

[Farmer Ted]

What's the use of making the playoffs every single year when you consistently fail in the first game?

It beats the hell out of going 5-11, that's the point. You don't get swept by your division rivals, or nearly so, every year. That's another reason it's not so bad. Oh, and your favorite team only gets mocked for a week or so during the playoffs, rather than all year. That can be quite nice.

[Anne The Fan]

But I would like to see some numbers backing up Norv's "offensive genius" thing, too. I've heard this ever since he left the Cowboys, where admittedly the results were spectacular. But to my knowledge, he hasn't come close to duplicating those results since, and yet he's still labeled as a "brilliant offensive mind."

Maybe the stats are there and I just haven't noticed them.
I had actually been wondering the same thing for quite a while, so I went to www.pro-football-reference.com and looked at his stats. The following is the offensive rank of each team that he has coached, either as an offensive coordinator or a head coach. Note that I have only listed team rankings for points scored and yards gained; if there’s another category that should have been included in the mix, I apologize for having omitted it.

1991: Dallas Cowboys (OC): Pts 7; Yds 8
1992: Dallas Cowboys (OC): Pts 2; Yds 4
1993: Dallas Cowboys (OC): Pts 2; Yds 4
1994: Washington Redskins (HC): Pts 13; Yds 19
1995: Washington Redskins (HC): Pts 18; Yds 16
1996: Washington Redskins (HC): Pts 8; Yds 16
1997: Washington Redskins (HC): Pts 15; Yds 19
1998: Washington Redskins (HC): Pts 17; Yds 12
1999: Washington Redskins (HC): Pts 2; Yds 2
2000: Washington Redskins (HC): Pts 24; Yds 11
2001: San Diego Chargers (OC): Pts 14; Yds 15
2002: Miami Dolphins (OC): Pts 12; Yds 15
2003: Miami Dolphins (OC): Pts 17; Yds 24
2004: Oakland Raiders (HC): Pts 18; Yds 20
2005: Oakland Raiders (HC): Pts 23; Yds 21
2006: San Francisco 49ers (OC): Pts 24; Yds 26

So in 16 years of coaching, Norv’s offenses have cracked the top 10 in both categories exactly 4 times (1991, 1992, 1993 and 1999); 3 of those 4 years he had the Triplets at his disposal. He also cracked the top 10 in only one category in 1996.

In my opinion, I don’t think that’s enough to make him a certified genius. To me, a genius is always in the top 10 to 20 percent of his field; Norv has only cracked the top third of the rankings slightly less than one third of his tenure (i.e., 5 out of 16 years). The rest of the time he’s been in the middle tier AND for the last 2 years he’s been in the bottom tier.

I don’t care what Troy Aikman says. Norv will always be Captain Brainfart to me.

[Farmer Ted]

I don’t care what Troy Aikman says. Norv will always be Captain Brainfart to me.

:dance:

Outstanding first post, Anne. Welcome!

[shally]

I had actually been wondering the same thing for quite a while, so I went to www.pro-football-reference.com and looked at his stats. The following is the offensive rank of each team that he has coached, either as an offensive coordinator or a head coach. Note that I have only listed team rankings for points scored and yards gained; if there’s another category that should have been included in the mix, I apologize for having omitted it.

1991: Dallas Cowboys (OC): Pts 7; Yds 8
1992: Dallas Cowboys (OC): Pts 2; Yds 4
1993: Dallas Cowboys (OC): Pts 2; Yds 4
1994: Washington Redskins (HC): Pts 13; Yds 19
1995: Washington Redskins (HC): Pts 18; Yds 16
1996: Washington Redskins (HC): Pts 8; Yds 16
1997: Washington Redskins (HC): Pts 15; Yds 19
1998: Washington Redskins (HC): Pts 17; Yds 12
1999: Washington Redskins (HC): Pts 2; Yds 2
2000: Washington Redskins (HC): Pts 24; Yds 11
2001: San Diego Chargers (OC): Pts 14; Yds 15
2002: Miami Dolphins (OC): Pts 12; Yds 15
2003: Miami Dolphins (OC): Pts 17; Yds 24
2004: Oakland Raiders (HC): Pts 18; Yds 20
2005: Oakland Raiders (HC): Pts 23; Yds 21
2006: San Francisco 49ers (OC): Pts 24; Yds 26

So in 16 years of coaching, Norv’s offenses have cracked the top 10 in both categories exactly 4 times (1991, 1992, 1993 and 1999); 3 of those 4 years he had the Triplets at his disposal. He also cracked the top 10 in only one category in 1996.

In my opinion, I don’t think that’s enough to make him a certified genius. To me, a genius is always in the top 10 to 20 percent of his field; Norv has only cracked the top third of the rankings slightly less than one third of his tenure (i.e., 5 out of 16 years). The rest of the time he’s been in the middle tier AND for the last 2 years he’s been in the bottom tier.

I don’t care what Troy Aikman says. Norv will always be Captain Brainfart to me.

great work.. way to open !!! welcome

[JRudy]

im not exaclty sure what the fascination over Norv seems to be, he seemed to get a lot of job interview like he was some kind of hot commodity coaching option. I really thought Ron Rivera would get that jod in SD. Anne the Fans post even further confused me on why this guy still gets a look every time there a coaching vacancy. :whoknows:

[SpicyMcHaggis]

It beats the hell out of going 5-11, that's the point. You don't get swept by your division rivals, or nearly so, every year. That's another reason it's not so bad. Oh, and your favorite team only gets mocked for a week or so during the playoffs, rather than all year. That can be quite nice.
That's obvious..my point is that if you have a team with the talent to win 13 or 14 games, then it's clear that you have the talent to make a run at the Super Bowl..but if you consistently fail to win even your first playoff game then it's all pretty useless. If he had crappy teams that overachieved and made the playoffs then lost it would be different, but Marty has had the number one seed at least 4 times with 3 different teams, and he has NEVER made the championship game...that's ridiculous.

[Farmer Ted]

but Marty has had the number one seed at least 4 times with 3 different teams, and he has NEVER made the championship game...that's ridiculous.

Sure, that's true (except for the never making the championship game part). But who did he lose to? Let's see, this year the Chargers lost to New England. Are you telling me that that is really that shocking? In '97 the Chiefs lost to the Broncos, who were the best team in football from '96-'98. Is that really that big of a shock? I don't think so. In '95, when STEVE BONO was their QB, they lost to the 9-7 Colts. That's a bad loss, but considering who the Chiefs QB was (with his 79.5 rating), I'd say you could call that team a group of overachievers, couldn't you? And in '86, when the 12-4 Browns were the toast of the awful AFC, they lost in the championship game to the Broncos. So that would be two losses to Elway, one to Tom Brady and a final loss to an overachieving Colts team that came within a play of making the Super Bowl. I don't see what's so awful about that, I guess.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Sure, that's true (except for the never making the championship game part). But who did he lose to? Let's see, this year the Chargers lost to New England. Are you telling me that that is really that shocking? In '97 the Chiefs lost to the Broncos, who were the best team in football from '96-'98. Is that really that big of a shock? I don't think so. In '95, when STEVE BONO was their QB, they lost to the 9-7 Colts. That's a bad loss, but considering who the Chiefs QB was (with his 79.5 rating), I'd say you could call that team a group of overachievers, couldn't you? And in '86, when the 12-4 Browns were the toast of the awful AFC, they lost in the championship game to the Broncos. So that would be two losses to Elway, one to Tom Brady and a final loss to an overachieving Colts team that came within a play of making the Super Bowl. I don't see what's so awful about that, I guess.
Oh yeah, I forgot about the championship game with the Browns. Sorry about that.
But hey, we can agree to disagree..if you think a 5-13 lifetime playoff record is acceptable because of his very good regular season record, that's fine..I just think that if you have a team with the talent to try and make a serious SB run, Marty is not the coach I would want leading that team.

[HanburgerBum]

It beats the hell out of going 5-11, that's the point. You don't get swept by your division rivals, or nearly so, every year. That's another reason it's not so bad. Oh, and your favorite team only gets mocked for a week or so during the playoffs, rather than all year. That can be quite nice.


The issue at hand is not whether one prefers to go 11-5 or 5-11. That's so clear cut that no discussion is needed.

The issue is whether Marty is the main reason for the Chargers playoff failures and whether he should have been kept over someone like Norv Turner.

As for first part, I believe I have made a good case that Marty's coaching in the playoffs, particularly the time management in the last few minutes of the NE game, is the biggest reason for the loss (incidentally, I am still waiting for an excuse from you why Marty allowed the clock to tick down from 1:50 to 1:10). I don't understand how his regular season record somehow justifies this kind of idiotic coaching in the playoffs.

As for the second part, the facts are clear. Marty has PROVEN he can't win in postseason. Thirteen tries (sometimes with the top-seeded team) for a 5-13 record and not a single appearance in the ultimate championship game. Just about anybody (including Norv) would be a better choice for SD at this point, because that person has NOT shown that he can't win in the playoffs with a team as talented as the Chargers. Any coach can get SD into the playoffs, but he has to be able to ADVANCE, once he gets there.

Would I hire Marty if I were an owner, as you apparently would? No. Because I want to win the SB, not just get into the playoffs. Sure, Marty in all probability would have had better regular season records than Spurrier and two of the three years in Gibbs II. But, to me, if you have Marty as your coach, you are just SETTLING. I never want that for the Skins.

[HanburgerBum]

I had actually been wondering the same thing for quite a while, so I went to www.pro-football-reference.com and looked at his stats. The following is the offensive rank of each team that he has coached, either as an offensive coordinator or a head coach. Note that I have only listed team rankings for points scored and yards gained; if there’s another category that should have been included in the mix, I apologize for having omitted it.

1991: Dallas Cowboys (OC): Pts 7; Yds 8
1992: Dallas Cowboys (OC): Pts 2; Yds 4
1993: Dallas Cowboys (OC): Pts 2; Yds 4
1994: Washington Redskins (HC): Pts 13; Yds 19
1995: Washington Redskins (HC): Pts 18; Yds 16
1996: Washington Redskins (HC): Pts 8; Yds 16
1997: Washington Redskins (HC): Pts 15; Yds 19
1998: Washington Redskins (HC): Pts 17; Yds 12
1999: Washington Redskins (HC): Pts 2; Yds 2
2000: Washington Redskins (HC): Pts 24; Yds 11
2001: San Diego Chargers (OC): Pts 14; Yds 15
2002: Miami Dolphins (OC): Pts 12; Yds 15
2003: Miami Dolphins (OC): Pts 17; Yds 24
2004: Oakland Raiders (HC): Pts 18; Yds 20
2005: Oakland Raiders (HC): Pts 23; Yds 21
2006: San Francisco 49ers (OC): Pts 24; Yds 26

So in 16 years of coaching, Norv’s offenses have cracked the top 10 in both categories exactly 4 times (1991, 1992, 1993 and 1999); 3 of those 4 years he had the Triplets at his disposal. He also cracked the top 10 in only one category in 1996.

In my opinion, I don’t think that’s enough to make him a certified genius. To me, a genius is always in the top 10 to 20 percent of his field; Norv has only cracked the top third of the rankings slightly less than one third of his tenure (i.e., 5 out of 16 years). The rest of the time he’s been in the middle tier AND for the last 2 years he’s been in the bottom tier.

I don’t care what Troy Aikman says. Norv will always be Captain Brainfart to me.


Great research. I think what the info tells us is that when Norv had the horses, he was very good. But, when he did not (medium talent with the Skins, not much Oakland and almost nothing with Miami and SF), he was average. This probably describes most coaches.

Overall, I still think Norv has a terrific offensive mind. And, I think SD is going to be scary this season (at least on offense).

[HanburgerBum]

Sure, that's true (except for the never making the championship game part). But who did he lose to? Let's see, this year the Chargers lost to New England. Are you telling me that that is really that shocking? In '97 the Chiefs lost to the Broncos, who were the best team in football from '96-'98. Is that really that big of a shock? I don't think so. In '95, when STEVE BONO was their QB, they lost to the 9-7 Colts. That's a bad loss, but considering who the Chiefs QB was (with his 79.5 rating), I'd say you could call that team a group of overachievers, couldn't you? And in '86, when the 12-4 Browns were the toast of the awful AFC, they lost in the championship game to the Broncos. So that would be two losses to Elway, one to Tom Brady and a final loss to an overachieving Colts team that came within a play of making the Super Bowl. I don't see what's so awful about that, I guess.


It is most certainly true that Marty has never made it to the championship game. By "championship", I think virtually everybody who is not looking to excuse Marty for his abysmal playoff record would take it to mean the final game that decides who is the BIG DOG. I would hardly consider the AFC crown a championship game, regardless what it is called.

[HanburgerBum]

Sure, that's true (except for the never making the championship game part). But who did he lose to? Let's see, this year the Chargers lost to New England. Are you telling me that that is really that shocking? In '97 the Chiefs lost to the Broncos, who were the best team in football from '96-'98. Is that really that big of a shock? I don't think so. In '95, when STEVE BONO was their QB, they lost to the 9-7 Colts. That's a bad loss, but considering who the Chiefs QB was (with his 79.5 rating), I'd say you could call that team a group of overachievers, couldn't you? And in '86, when the 12-4 Browns were the toast of the awful AFC, they lost in the championship game to the Broncos. So that would be two losses to Elway, one to Tom Brady and a final loss to an overachieving Colts team that came within a play of making the Super Bowl. I don't see what's so awful about that, I guess.


Guess what, there are usually a lot of good QBs and a lot of good teams in the playoffs. If you are a good coach, you have got to win your share (especially when you go in as the top-seeded team).

Playing at home in ideal weather (after a by-week to rest the bumps and bruises) against a team that didn't have any rest, that's a bad loss, Tom Brady or no Tom Brady.