A rumor (that you surely won't like)

[rskinsfan10]

Okay, I have a confession to make. I have been sitting on a rumor all week that rubbed me the wrong way. I didn't share it before now because, well because it was a rumor. What can I say? After thinking it over for a few days I will share it with you guys. I first will say that I have not substantiated this rumor with any credible investigation, so take it for what it's worth.

I have a friend that is really close to an ex-Skin's family member. I will not name this former player. My bud told me earlier this week that Champ let this ex-Skin know that he doesn't want to be here anymore. No specifics were given as to why, or at least none were shared with me. The story continues that Champ was really hoping that Snyder would low ball him on his initial offer in the hopes that he could use that as an excuse to bolt from DC and not be blamed by the fans for leaving. He was supposedly very surprised with Snyder's offer. That's where the story ends.

I only share this because it is a story that is out there in the streets, just not one that is widely known.

I say again that I personally do not know whether this is or isn't the truth. I am not the one who is friends with the ex-Skin's relative. I am not trying to paint Champ in any negative light at all. He is my 2nd favorite Skin behind LaVar. I'm just sharing with you guys something that was shared with me.

Again, take it for what it's worth....

[Green-Is-Good]

I hope this is not true.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

although this is a rumor, it made my stomach turn. i said it a while ago that the skins need to have success this season to keep champ and lavar around. if we keep losing, we are going to have a whole bunch of corey dillons on the team.

[Green-Is-Good]

I hope they do what Corey did, and stay!

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Scary. Very scary. I hope this isn't true, I really do. If it is, maybe if we have a winning season and make the playoffs Champ will feel differently.

[Chief Seeway]

That's very interesting. It's 100% opposite of what I've heard from my "friend of a friend". It may be time for someone to make a phone call back to the states to see how the "Baileys" are doing...

[RichardBradley]

So we give him an offer and get 2 first round picks for him he can be replaced

[Green-Is-Good]

Players like Champ don't come around every year.

[jporterweb]

true...but there are players of his caliber that have attitudes like that, and karma bites em with a huge injury when they leave. So if that is his attitude, then he can kiss off....If it isn't his attitude, then he will do what he can to resign. But you better believe Snyder will make it known if he just doesn't want to be there.

[ShaggySkins]

Franchise his butt and make him stay here anyhow

[BigCountry]

If we get 2 draft picks (and that's assuming it'd be from a team like the Lions, Bears or Bengals) then here are your basic option right now:

Marlin Jackson, Michigan- No way
Derrick Straight, Oklahoma- No Way
D'Angello Hall, V-Tech- I'm a homer and I've got to say no way

These are all great players but there's no Charles Woodson, Champ Bailey, Terrance Newman looking corner coming out in this draft. There are a bunch of very very good ones but nobody special and unless that's what we can find, we have to keep him.

[PennSkinsFan]

Why would he be. A team that is consistently 7-9 or 8-8 despite big fruitless spending sprees, yet, most veterans, with one exception, Jon Jansen, go by the way side and end up elsewhere while we spend our money on other teams players. The Schotty/Spurrier, mess hurt with many as well, not because of great outcrying support of Marty, but the way it was handled by Snyder. Some see this as a Snyder toy, not a business, not a team, not a franchise, but a toy, a fantasy team. Many are angry at the changes in the front office. Look at Lavar's comments pre-game Jags...he just wants stability, he has never had stability in the nFL, well, he has been here his whole career. Those things mean alot. Why play for a team where the owner allows vets to walk while spending big money on other free agents, has had 4 head coaches in five years, five Dcs in five years....when he coudl go somewhere like Green Bay that is a consistent winner, and much stability.

Money is big, but tother things count as well. Maybe Cha,mp just generally feels that this franchise will not win as long as Snyder is owner. Is it a legit feeling? Some say yes, some say no.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Are there any big-time stud DEs in the draft? I haven't even begun looking at next year's prospects yet.

[BigCountry]

I'll do a value board and a preview next week but right now you're looking at David Pollack of Georgia who's 6'3 270 with a big time motor , great speed and a knack for the big play but we'll have to stink to get him. Antwan Odom of Alabama is an athletic 6-5 275 in the Strahan mold but hasn't quiet lived up to potential. He needs a big senior year. Right now they're the only 2 de's I can think of worth a top 15 pick.

[CarMike]

My take is this......if he don't want to be here, then fine. Go else where. I don't want a guy here who doesn't want to be here. I wont hold any grudge. Its as simple as that.

I want guys on the Redskins that bleed B&G like I do. If Champ is not that guy then fine. Good luck else where.

Thats hard for me to say because he's my favorite current Redskin player. But, that is how I feel about it....

[JoeDaSchmoe]

WE might not have to stink if we franchised Champ and he got taken by the Bengals, Lions, Cardinals, etc.....

[Keino]

Im inclined to believe the rumor. The offer was very fair and it seems the sticking point is the installment portion of the Signing bonus and of course the amount. It seems to me that Champ doesn't really want to be here or that he really wants to test his value on the free market. Of course the franchise tag only prolongs the inevitable for a year but at least it guarantees a return on the investment.......

[camasterton]

Me too K, I have been wondering why Champ and his camp, made a point of wanting to "get it done" but have not countered or even asked to discuss a proposal, since the Skins made the offer. What are they doing, if not stalling?

[Redbeard]

I've said in the past, watch out for Pittsburgh. Champ would be the final piece to that puzzle. (although it's not their style to get in bidding wars)

That being said I don't listen to hear-say. Franchise player's can always be lost anyway. Outbought by some bottom wrung team with a open cap, trying to fill stadium seats. So it's often beyond control. Goodnews is - the second best scenario is still pretty good, 2 draft pick.

[hail2skins]

Well his demeanor in the last interview I saw would support this rumor. He was very soft spoken and specified no comment for several questions. It seemed as though he didn't want to be interviewed. I know he doesn't want it to disrupt the team and that could be why, but I just didn't get that feeling for it. I felt he just wants to be let go. Like it was said earlier, why is there no counter offer yet from his camp.

[Emmanouel8]

If Champ wants to go than let him go. I'm a Redskins fan not a Bailey fan. He'd cost too much to keep anyways, we'd probably be better off letting him go and spreading that wealth elsewhere. I don't now why people think it has anything to do w/ winning or losing, I guarantee he goes to the highest bidder which will be .500 team or worse.

[GhostRider68]

I've said it once and I'll say it again...Defenses are built from the front line BACK to the secondary. Franchise him and get two 1st round picks. That being said if we don't get some stability we'll end up being the next Bengals.:typeR2:

[GhostRider68]

This doesn't suprise me at all.

[LostinNH]

I almost rather have the 2 first round picks at this point. Champ isn't the playmaker that he wants to be paid like. Don't get me wrong I think Champ is a top 3 corner, but I just don't think he's worth what he wants.

[rskinsfan10]

My take...

I won't repeat the obscenities that spewed from my mouth when I was initially told this.

I think that there may be something to this, and alot of my reasoning is from points already made here. The losing, the lack of a counter-proposal.

My thing is, don't try to win a public relations war if you don't want to be here. Egging the fans along is not a classy thing to do, if that is indeed the case. Snyder already gets more then his share of bad press so if he were low-balled no one would say anything different about him that hasn't already been said.

Also, if that PR angle is the truth, then goes against every "classy" comment ever used to describe Bailey in the past.

Time will tell.

[TexSkin]

I have to agree...if Champ does not want to be here then franchise him and get what we can. I really hope this is not true but I cant say I blame him if it is. Football is all about winning the superbowl. The Skins under Snyder need to show we are progressing towards that goal.

[Redbeard]

Originally posted by Trung24
I've said it once and I'll say it again...Defenses are built from the front line BACK to the secondary. Franchise him and get two 1st round picks. That being said if we don't get some stability we'll end up being the next Bengals.:typeR2:

NOW THATS THE TRUTH!! Build with the line. Problem is the old... a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Draft picks are birds in the bush.

[Skinzaholic]

Yeah... if this turns out to be true then my feelings toward Champ will DEFINITELY change.

In the end... it isnt Bailey that is hurt... it is us.

[Skins57]

wow, I guess I didn't want to think of that but it falls into line with his actions, I agree with most let him go and get 2 first and build the freakin dline. I can not blame him, he is gonna get a crap load of money no matter where he goes and it seems this team is buried in quicksand but has an 8-8 rope tied to a tree.

I hope we can resign him but if he wants to go, get 2 first and save some seriouos cap space

[Hailyeah]

As with many rumors, this one lacks the context of whatever overall discussion may have taken place. Is it not understandable that Champ would be thinking about his options after playing on such a volatile, blatantly mediocre ballclub for 4 years? Maybe the comment was true and just out of momentary frustration. Who knows, who cares. I won't believe the hype. The bottom line is that Champ is the best in the business at his position, didn't hold out of camp, and will be on the field this year for our beloved Skins. Anything else is speculation. Alot of us thought Jansen was gone until his signing midseason last year. Call me crazy, but I ABSOLUTELY HATE draft pick jabberings right before the season starts. Lets just enjoy the games, folks.

[Shabba]

We just have to hope that it is not true because we really do need Champ on this team but again you can't want something that does not want you.
So I guess it is a wait and see thingy.

[Redskinfan29]

I represent a few Redskins in separate civil lawsuits and they have told me the same thing when I asked them. Champ hates all of the turnover every year and wants out.

[PennSkinsFan]

Then see ya later. I dont want a player here that doesnt want to be here. Maybe there woudln't be so much turnover if these guys we keep talking about as our core players woudl deliver a winning season. Take a look at the off-0season this year. Diod we not address what many of us appeared to be weaknesses...OG, S, WR, K, Kr.....puleze! If Champ is that concerned about turnover, he is gonna find it everywhere now.

[hail2skins]

Hey,

We've been upset over the turnover and inconsistency as well. Remember we were all shouting we wanted stability.

[rskinsfan10]

Again, I say that if he wants out then he shouldn't have played the fans in such away.

Play out your contract and move on.

[Brett A]

Franchise him...get 2 #1's for him...Sign Chris McAllister who was franchised by the Ravens this past season and cant be after this season to the contract we would have given Bailey.... Draft Vince Wilfork DT Miami and start building a Defense the way your suppose to up the middle.

Brett

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by Brett A
Franchise him...get 2 #1's for him...Sign Chris McAllister who was franchised by the Ravens this past season and cant be after this season to the contract we would have given Bailey.... Draft Vince Wilfork DT Miami and start building a Defense the way your suppose to up the middle.

Brett

I can go along with that scenario.

[Redskinfan29]

I never really believe a player when they say something for the cameras. Its all a business and everyone wants to put on a good public face.

As for our owner, I wish he valued the talent he already has rather than covet and over spend for somebody elses.

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by Redskinfan29

As for our owner, I wish he valued the talent he already has rather than covet and over spend for somebody elses.

I've heard this type of comment made alot recently and I cannot say that I agree with it.

The offer to Bailey was fair IMO.

I cannot think of a player of ours recently that wasn't given a fair offer by Snyder.

[hail2skins]

That's just how it looks to alot of us outside looking in. We've seen numerous FA's come in here with huge signing bonuses and we've seen several leave. Have the offers from Snyder been fair probably from our point of view, but what are these players considering fair. Who knows. I think it's just seeing alot of players coming in from other teams and our own drafted players leaving. I also believe the offer to Bailey was fair. By fair I mean it sounded like a nice sum of cash. But what is really in the contract, we don't know. I've read the signing bonus was in multiple payments which is a standard but I understand that Champ wanted more in the initial payment. Is that fair, I don't know. I also thought they wanted to make him the highest paid cornerback in the league but I read somewhere where the actual contract wouldn't have done that.

If the rumor is true, then it's mute anyway. If he doesn't want to be here, then fine. Tag him and get 2 first rounders. I don't like that but I want players who want to be here.

[Shabba]

Originally posted by rskinsfan10
Again, I say that if he wants out then he shouldn't have played the fans in such away.

Play out your contract and move on.

I don't think he played the fans at all. I guess he is tired of all the change around here. He has played under how DC since coming here?
LaVar has said similar things in the past about the turnover of the team since he's been here. It's just been aweful.

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by Shabba
I don't think he played the fans at all. I guess he is tired of all the change around here. He has played under how DC since coming here?
LaVar has said similar things in the past about the turnover of the team since he's been here. It's just been aweful.

I guess we will have to disagree on this one.

Going on the assumption that this rumor is true, for him to stand in front of masses of TV cameras and say that he wants a new deal done ASAP, stating that he thought about holding out from camp but realized that it was wrong to do so, and that he wants to remain here to me is playing with the fan's emotions. Maybe that's just me however.

[SkinsKY]

Who can blame Champ for wanting to leave because of the turnover. It's all he's known since he's been in the NFL. I don't think it has anything to do with the team itself, but looking from his view things haven't really gotten better since he's been here. I think if we started winning, he would want to stay, but I think it's the same with Jansen that he has to be shown that we are committed to stability if we want to win him over.

We talked so much about what a classy player he is. I don't see now why people are so quick to figure out the best way to get rid of him. He's given a lot to this team and has gotten very little return. If we win a lot this year andcan't resign him because he doesn't want to be here, then fine...franchise him. But I think he wants to get out because he wants to succeed. Hopefully this year will change his mind. From the looks of it too, the next offseason has the look of the most stable one we've had in years, or at least since Champ has been a skin...Plus I don't want to have to change my handle.

[Shabba]

The next question then is, how will all of this affect how he playes this season. Sometimes when you are doing something that you don't really want to do, then you don't do your best at it for whatever reason.

Just a thought.

[GhostRider68]

Has anyone thought of what happens to Ramsey in a couple of years? If we sign Champ to a butt load of money, who do we eventually let go? LaVar, Samuels, Jansen, Ramsey,? I mean you can only do so much. Ramsey will develop into a stud. What then? Who's more important?:smash:

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Champ will play well this season either way, because he knows if he's gonna be a free agent next year, he wants to be known as the best CB in the league so he can get a giganticized contract.

I could go with that Chris McAllister scenario, too.

[NCskinsfanatic]

Champ will have a monster year this year he also should not say he wants to be here if he doesnt(playing with my emotions,ya know?)I think he will have a pro-bowl year and no matter what we offer he will leave because
1.We may or may not be considerably better than last years 7-9 team.schedule tougher and we still have holes.
2.If we're not considerably better SS will walk away and we will have yet another coaching staff.
3.If #2 happens the LaVars,samuels,Smoots,Jansens,etc. will be next to follow.How many FA actually say their first choice anymore is Dallas?I wonder if it has anything to do with the way JJ has run that team into the ground?

[Hailyeah]

Originally posted by Trung24
Has anyone thought of what happens to Ramsey in a couple of years? If we sign Champ to a butt load of money, who do we eventually let go? LaVar, Samuels, Jansen, Ramsey,? I mean you can only do so much. Ramsey will develop into a stud. What then? Who's more important?:smash:

Too many what ifs. We very much hope, but have no clue, if Ram will become a Pro Bowl calibre player who would demand a big deal. Too many junior Nostradamus's in here. Champ certainly should not be written off. Chris McAllister? We obviously need the season to start right now. The next thread may speak of Taylor Jacobs not fitting into our 2008 cap after his 5 straight Pro Bowls.:drunker: :whoknows:

[PennSkinsFan]

After reading the new article in the Post about talks being put off until post season, it woudl seem to me that the rumor Kenny heard has some validity to it. I think Champ was surprised and stunned at the Redskisn initial first offer being so high. Now he is in a bind cause he wants to be the good guy, but doesn't want to be here.

Hopefully at this point, should this rumor be true, wecan tag him and get two first rounders for him.

[hail2skins]

Didn't the new article mention he thought the offer was too low? I think the validity is the fact that there was no counter offer. Our offer was on Aug 17 and they never responded/countered. Alot of the quotes from Champ in the new article gave me the impression he didn't want to be here.

[rskinsfan10]

I agree. I was totally disgusted after reading his comments.

Glad I didn't buy that Bailey authentic jersey I was contemplating a few months ago.

[PennSkinsFan]

These are the comments that irk the crap out of me

"Of course, the offer really didn't do much for me. That was obvious. Ya'll saw that"

"I don't know how I'll feel at the time," Bailey said. "Of course, any player that's had that done to them in the past, I didn't think that was a great thing for the team, but they'll do anything to keep you around and not pay you what you're worth."

then when asked if he weants to remain a Redskins

"I really won't say much about that," Bailey said. "I mean, I'm just going to play football. I'll let that take care of itself. No comment on that."


Screw him. Lets either franchise and get two first rounders, which I doubt any team will give up, or seek a nice healthy trade. Bailey is showing his true colors. Stop comparing yourself to Mr. Green!

[IowaSkinsFan]

I'm with CarMike. Tampa Bay has good corners, not shutdown corners like Bailey, and look what they did. We need players that want to play here, not players who are hoping to get low balled on contract offers so they can go Free Agent and remain safe in the fans eyes. If you don't want to play here, just come out and say it instead of hiding behind the "I'm letting my agent handle it" BS.

Great defenses are built from the front back and sooner or later we will need a stud DE and DT, role players rotating at DT only get you so far. You put enough pressure on the QB and your CB's will look alot better. Tagging Bailey and having 3 first round picks would look sweet. They all don't need to be high picks. We could pick one high, and trade down in the first to get extra picks. There are a myriad of good things that could come from this.

[Seebs]

Just a question which major team has the money to affotd a player like Champ? if signing champ means letting go another major player, who would take the risk? I Don't think he can go as easily in a top franchise for top money.

[Patrick]

WELL seeing how this started out as just a RUMOR - here is a thought - Maybe the reason Champ wants out is because there are some on the team that don't want him here.
Make no bones about it - this is Lavar's team. I'm not saying that Lavar want's him out BUT I don't think he's ready to concede that Champ is the best defensive player (which he has suggested on a couples of interviews along with being the best DB) in the league. Because we have NO idea what goes on behind the locker room door - it was just a thought. ......... BUT that lame excuse about personnel turnover - give me a break, Tell me what team does not have that problem.

[dj_stouty]

Originally posted by Patrick
BUT that lame excuse about personnel turnover - give me a break, Tell me what team does not have that problem.

Or what company currently doesn't have that problem! Turnover affects everyone. Its how you deal with it, that matters. Either you bitch about it and go to another company with turnover problems...or you stick it out and do your job.

[PennSkinsFan]

It is called NFL free agency

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

after this post, im not going to worry about what happens to champ bailey until after this season. its sucks to hear him talk about the team like he doesnt care about it. but like you guys have said, if he doesnt want to play here, F' it. he wont get much more money anywhere else. where is darrell green when you need him??!! he could be talking champ thru this and talking some sense into his head. i would be hurt to see him leave, but if he leaves, us fans and the team will just have to move on. i do think that champ will be franchised if he doesnt get an extension. i have a feeling that there is something going on internally thats making him so frustrated and i wish i knew what it was. we havent seen the official contract proposal and he could be getting ripped of or something you never know. at this point, the way i see it is that we still have a great CB on the team for one more year and football starts in 2 days.....!!!

[AGibbsGirl]

Man...and I almost bought a Bailey jersey the other day...

[Emmanouel8]

I can't believe what that a-hole said in the POST. Maybe it's not turnover that's bugging him but the fact that he stinks up the joint when it comes to returning punts and playing WR. I was for him giving it a shot but he absolutely does not belong anywhere other then the defensive side of the ball.

[dukeuch]

Originally posted by PennSkinsFan
Screw him. Lets either franchise and get two first rounders, which I doubt any team will give up, or seek a nice healthy trade. Bailey is showing his true colors. Stop comparing yourself to Mr. Green!

I hope he stays, but understand completely if he wants out. Look what happened to Seau in SD. When the time came to make the big decision, he stayed, and essentailly had to endure many more years of mediocrity. I think Bailey wants to win, and despite Snyder's obvious desire to win too, there has been no evidence that he will be able to figure out how to get that done. He's in a tough spot, he needs to make a decision now on how sucessful the 'Skins will be in the future, and there is not much in the past (while he has been here) to indicate future success.

[dukeuch]

Oh, and another thing directed at all who bemoan Bailey's lack of loyalty to the 'Skins: Think he doesn't look around and notice the FO's lack of loyalty to players, and I mean real Redskins, like Mitchell, Thrash, Davis, even Johnson, and a host of other guys who played their way into starting postions and then were cast adrift for high priced loser names.

Gotta give loyalty if you want to get it.

[hail2skins]

Loyalty doesn't really exist in the NFL anymore. There are a few exceptions but not many. Those days are over. The NFL wanted parity and they got it.

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by dukeuch
Oh, and another thing directed at all who bemoan Bailey's lack of loyalty to the 'Skins: Think he doesn't look around and notice the FO's lack of loyalty to players, and I mean real Redskins, like Mitchell, Thrash, Davis, even Johnson, and a host of other guys who played their way into starting postions and then were cast adrift for high priced loser names.

Gotta give loyalty if you want to get it.

My only problem with your assessment is that those names have nothing to do with him or their (the team's) loyalty to him. He cannot with a straight face say that the team isn't trying to do right by him (well maybe he can because he did). If he was so disgusted with what they offered, then why not simply come back to the table with a counter, and allow each other to meet at a common ground? At least give them something to work with. Outside of Davis, none of those guys were even offered what he was offered. I can see him bemoaning loyalty if he wasn't offered anything.

I don't have a problem if he wants to go somewhere else. Honestly, I don't. We all change jobs all the time for various reasons, sometimes for the peace of mind that a change of atmosphere will bring. It's not always soely about money. That's all cool with me. Just don't whine and cry that you want to sit down and talk and come up with something that you can agree on then you don't do your part.

[dukeuch]

Originally posted by rskinsfan10
My only problem with your assessment is that those names have nothing to do with him or their (the team's) loyalty to him. He cannot with a straight face say that the team isn't trying to do right by him (well maybe he can because he did). If he was so disgusted with what they offered, then why not simply come back to the table with a counter, and allow each other to meet at a common ground? At least give them something to work with. Outside of Davis, none of those guys were even offered what he was offered. I can see him bemoaning loyalty if he wasn't offered anything.

I don't have a problem if he wants to go somewhere else. Honestly, I don't. We all change jobs all the time for various reasons, sometimes for the peace of mind that a change of atmosphere will bring. It's not always soely about money. That's all cool with me. Just don't whine and cry that you want to sit down and talk and come up with something that you can agree on then you don't do your part.

My point is to those who have a problem with Bailey's "loyalty", that he "want's $" and does not "reamaining true to the team" or "his loyal fans". How could we, in your words, not offer anything to a guy like Mitchell and expect other players to ignore it? I just feel there should not be any expectation from a player in that regard if ownership does not live under the same expectations. The fact that no serious efforts were made to keep the aforementioned guys I think proves my point. People argue constantly about how it's too bad we have to let a player go, but it's "a business decision" that must be made. Why hold a player to a different standard (not implying you are, but many do)?

[Patrick]

Originally posted by dukeuch
My point is to those who have a problem with Bailey's "loyalty", that he "want's $" and does not "reamaining true to the team" or "his loyal fans". How could we, in your words, not offer anything to a guy like Mitchell and expect other players to ignore it? I just feel there should not be any expectation from a player in that regard if ownership does not live under the same expectations. The fact that no serious efforts were made to keep the aforementioned guys I think proves my point. People argue constantly about how it's too bad we have to let a player go, but it's "a business decision" that must be made. Why hold a player to a different standard (not implying you are, but many do)?


How about because you're offering him an amount of money that makes him the highest paid at that position! NOW there's the money BUT where the loyalty?

[dukeuch]

Originally posted by Patrick
How about because you're offering him an amount of money that makes him the highest paid at that position! NOW there's the money BUT where the loyalty?

So, are you saying that money is what a player should base his decision on, or loyalty? Heck, you can't criticize a guy for just following the bucks ("where's the loyalty"?) instead of trying to win, and then criticize him for not taking the bucks for a losing team because he does want to win.

An earlier poster opined that Bailey actually did not expect such a high figure to be offered, and that he just wanted to get out, and therefore was sort of a liar. Perhaps, but I don't blame him for wanting to get out; the team has made little, if any, progress since he got here (hopefully this season will change that) and it is clear that management has no loyalty, he's played under a different def. coord. every year (I think) that he has been here, and if he were to sign a long term contract before seeing how the latest round of re-building goes, he might sign on to a loser for the rest of his productive career (see Junior Seau).

Is the problem that he will not sign for the big $, or that he wants to go to a winner, or that he says he wants the big bucks but that's just an excuse because he REALLY wants to go to a winner (ie: he's lying)?