Trading Up?

[S.Taylor36]

Joe Gibbs acknowledges that the Redskins have talked to two teams about trading up, and hinted Calvin Johnson would be a consideration.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2007/03/trading_up.html?nav=rss_blog

[greatest2]

:doh:

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Errare humanum est, perseverare autem diabolicum.

[frankez99]

Source: http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...rt=NFL&id=4153

"Joe Gibbs acknowledges that the Redskins have talked to two teams about trading up, and hinted Calvin Johnson would be a consideration.
Gibbs isn't great at draft secrets. The Redskins let the media know they were set on Jason Campbell when they traded into the first round two years ago, and the deal was done before the draft. We can guess one team Washington has talked to: Detroit. Cleveland could be the other. They could also trade down to acquire Lance Briggs."

Drafting for the Redskins is so easy, a caveman can do it. "Not cool!"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v188/snicks/geico.jpg

[S.Taylor36]

The Redskins really don't hold any secrets going into the draft. I hope this isn't a situation like the Jason Campbell deal in which everyone knew before the draft that we had a deal in place to get him. Anyway, I think while Calvin Johnson will be great it's overkill for the Skins and want to upgrade the defense desperately.

[dj_stouty]

I'm all for it if Calvin can play DE.

[RedskinRyan]

Errare humanum est, perseverare autem diabolicum.

ummmm....should that be spencored?

im opposed to trading up....CJ aint gonna fix our defense.

[bwparker]

smoke...screen...???:confused:

[SpicyMcHaggis]

ummmm....should that be spencored?

im opposed to trading up....CJ aint gonna fix our defense.
Nope.

[skinsfan36]

cj would make the offense rediculous,that would be like completly fixing one side of the ball to try to cover the other sides severe flaws(dline).why im a georgia tech fan and cjs a monster this souns like another smokescreen and i think the other player he maybe refering to trading up for is gaines adams,maybe we do really like him. who knows the good news the draft is less than a month away i mean a month from now we would have just picked at 6.so 1 more month of rumors,going to be interesting

[bergiemoore]

There are but 2 certainties in life, Death, and the Skins trading away draft picks.

[shally]

:doh:

really, my exact sentiments..:doh:

[shally]

I'm all for it if Calvin can play DE.

if nothing else, at least he should be able to chase down terry glenn (unlike lemar marshall)

[chrisbcbu]

I think we need DL more than another WR, but if we were to get CJ i would still be happy. that guys is probably the best player in the draft.

[Sweepea436]

There are but 2 certainties in life, Death, and the Skins trading away draft picks.

Funny 'cuz its true!

[whitskins]

If somebody blogs it, it must be true!

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

LOL. there have a million one rumors and tidbits of speculation that there is no reason to get all bent out ofshape about something that hasnt happened yet. all of it will result in some fun on draft day however, lol.

[HanburgerBum]

Trading-up makes no sense, unless there is a player the Skins feel they must come away with from this draft. It may be that player is Okoye and they don't think he will last to No. 6.

[Red Bear]

Trading-up makes no sense, unless there is a player the Skins feel they must come away with from this draft. It may be that player is Okoye and they don't think he will last to No. 6.

i dont think any DT will go in the top 5.

[NCskinsfanatic]

All this is makin me sick....in the head :banghead: ! Please hurry up and get to the end of April or trade the pick for somebody, it's obvious we can't stand pat...lol.

[shally]

trading up ?? i think not..

[James F. Quinn]

I think that Joe isn't THAT careless. This is called trolling (as in the fishing technique, not the forum technique LOL). He throws out the bait (CJ) and reels in the line. Anyone drafting lower than sixth who really covets CJ will have to start thinking about trading up to us. What we want is more picks to address our numerous needs. Just my gut reaction.

[And if you could see my gut, you'd know how seriously this should be taken.]

[X-Factor13]

I just want the draft to be over with, that way all this nonsense can come to a close and we can focus on our mutual boredom until June 1st.

[Redskinmayhem]

gah!!! I can't take this crap anymore!!! CJ is awesome yes but WTF?!?!?!? Where are we going to get quality D-lineman???

[remaxjon]

If somebody blogs it, it must be true!


True but we arn't talking about Skinsfan1234 we are talking about the post two main football writers. Credible sources imo

[LATrueRedskin]

How would we even pull this off? We'd have to offer a player or a......sigh....2008 pick.

[openallnight]

The Redskins really don't hold any secrets going into the draft. I hope this isn't a situation like the Jason Campbell deal in which everyone knew before the draft that we had a deal in place to get him.
You're joking right?

Gibbs never wants to tell his hand with the draft, or anything for that matter. As a matter of fact this is classic Gibbs misdirection. If you recall the JC situation Gibbs was pissed that their was a leak in the organization. At this point we could trade up, trade down, trade out. There's so many rumors on what we might do, who knows. And that's exactly the way Gibbs wants it :)

[shally]

You're joking right?

Gibbs never wants to tell his hand with the draft, or anything for that matter. As a matter of fact this is classic Gibbs misdirection. If you recall the JC situation Gibbs was pissed that their was a leak in the organization. At this point we could trade up, trade down, trade out. There's so many rumors on what we might do, who knows. And that's exactly the way Gibbs wants it :)

i cannot stand the tension any more :banghead:

[koepke25]

I know that I'm probably on my own here, but I don't think our D line is in as bad of shape as most. Look at our starting D from 2004 when we ranked 3rd in the NFL and tell me that this Defense can't be that good with the players we already have.

The D-line was Wynn, Griffin, Salave'a, Daniels. Now we have Carter, Griffin, Salave'a/Golsten, Daniels. I don't see a big difference, if anything Carter is an improvement over Wynn.

LB's in 2004 were Marshall, Pierce, Washington. The only difference is now we have Fletcher instead of Pierce. Looks very similar.

DB's in 2004 were Springs, Taylor, Clark, Smoot. Now we have Smoot/Rogers, Taylor (Pro Bowler not Rookie), Prioleau, Springs. I don't think Prioleau is quite as good as Clark but as a group I think it is pretty close.

I'm not sure what we would give up to move up and get CJ, but I do think he will help us score more points if he lines up as our #1 or #2 WR. At that point it would be up to Campbell to lead this team back to glory!!!!!

[whitskins]

True but we arn't talking about Skinsfan1234 we are talking about the post two main football writers. Credible sources imo

Well, technically the source here is Joe Gibbs, which makes it almost certainly a load of BS. I love Joe as much as anyone, but this time of year he turns into Pinocchio.

I believe not a word that comes out of my beloved coach's mouth in the month before the draft.

[SimplyZ]

maybe rocky is gonna play DE

[redwolf1218]

Trading-up makes no sense, unless there is a player the Skins feel they must come away with from this draft. It may be that player is Okoye and they don't think he will last to No. 6.
i cant think of any reason to trade up except for Calvin Johnson.

[shally]

i cant think of any reason to trade up except for Calvin Johnson.

thomas... would give us bookend tackles for another 4-5 years at least..

[shally]

maybe rocky is gonna play DE

and maybe rocky aint gonna play except on special teams....

[Red Bear]

maybe rocky is gonna play DE

i doubt it, but i speculated in the briggs thread that if rocky isnt gonna be starting on weakside this year then maybe we could atleast use him in a chris clemons type pass rushing role, which our defense did not do last year.

[shally]

i doubt it, but i speculated in the briggs thread that if rocky isnt gonna be starting on weakside this year then maybe we could atleast use him in a chris clemons type pass rushing role, which our defense did not do last year.

he seems to play better against the run, as opposed to pass rushing.

maybe with an offseason to add strength ??

[Red Bear]

he seems to play better against the run, as opposed to pass rushing.

maybe with an offseason to add strength ??

we never really seen him in a pass rushing role in this defense, and i admittedly dont know nothing about his college sack stats or how he was utilized there. but if hes not gonna be starting its atleast time to give him a role on defense and the rush linebacker was something we didnt use last year after clemons got injured and cut, if not rushing the passer, perhaps in goalline situations. he needs to see the field in some capacity

[HAWGZHEAD]

I swear if we trade up to sign a WR.... I will come here and complain about it.

[redskin_rich]

I swear if we trade up to sign a WR.... I will come here and complain about it.
I don't believe you. I think you'll crawl under your desk in the fetal position and whimper.

Or maybe that's just what I'll do...

[redwolf1218]

thomas... would give us bookend tackles for another 4-5 years at least..
that would raise some eyebrows.

[HAWGZHEAD]

I don't believe you. I think you'll crawl under your desk in the fetal position and whimper.

Or maybe that's just what I'll do... You're probably right. I would wait until the outcome of his first game to declare him tops or turd. :D

[skins111111]

Calvin Johnson, Moss and Cooley-----WOW a big a$$ posession with speed.

Carter is suppose to step up and with Daniels healthy and Golston comming on at DT maybe just maybe.......noooooo we need Gains Adams

[Emmanouel8]

I know that I'm probably on my own here, but I don't think our D line is in as bad of shape as most. Look at our starting D from 2004 when we ranked 3rd in the NFL and tell me that this Defense can't be that good with the players we already have.

The D-line was Wynn, Griffin, Salave'a, Daniels. Now we have Carter, Griffin, Salave'a/Golsten, Daniels. I don't see a big difference, if anything Carter is an improvement over Wynn.

LB's in 2004 were Marshall, Pierce, Washington. The only difference is now we have Fletcher instead of Pierce. Looks very similar.

DB's in 2004 were Springs, Taylor, Clark, Smoot. Now we have Smoot/Rogers, Taylor (Pro Bowler not Rookie), Prioleau, Springs. I don't think Prioleau is quite as good as Clark but as a group I think it is pretty close.

I'm not sure what we would give up to move up and get CJ, but I do think he will help us score more points if he lines up as our #1 or #2 WR. At that point it would be up to Campbell to lead this team back to glory!!!!!

Uh yeah you are on your own if you base your entire argument on 2004. You understand that our players do age? Even in 2004 our pass rush wasn't that great. Also popularity does not translate to 'similarity' i.e. Archuleta.

[Emmanouel8]

All I can say is of the FO is smart they will stay where they are and take the best available D lineman at #6. It's a need. I can't imagine anything worse than the Lance Briggs trade other than trading up and getting a WR. Given the history of the WR position the probability of failure is fairly equivalent to drafting one in the 2nd round. Ask the Detroit Lions. Those WR they have and had were studs in college.

Drafting a D lineman in the single digit is a much better risk and fills a real need. We have spent enough resources on the WR position, successful teams have holes too. Deal with it.

[shally]

Uh yeah you are on your own if you base your entire argument on 2004. You understand that our players do age? Even in 2004 our pass rush wasn't that great. Also popularity does not translate to 'similarity' i.e. Archuleta.

the d line is not good enough to remain as is for next year.. no way, no way...

[Emmanouel8]

the d line is not good enough to remain as is for next year.. no way, no way...

If they don't add talent to the line we will have a higher pick next offseason. :banghead:

[shally]

If they don't add talent to the line we will have a higher pick next offseason. :banghead:

too miserable to even contemplate.. if that is so, my guess is that gibbs will no longer be coach.. he will not go through another debacle of a season

[462skin]

The trade for Briggs is way worse than trading up for CJ!

[SkinKing]

I'm all for it if Calvin can play DE.

whats funny is he can play DE. Thats what he was recruited for coming out of HS...lol

[shally]

The trade for Briggs is way worse than trading up for CJ!


not in all ways.. there will be a learning curve for CJ.. there will be little or none for briggs

[Emmanouel8]

The trade for Briggs is way worse than trading up for CJ!

No way, the Briggs deal gets Briggs and a player at #31. At least we know Briggs can contribute and you can possibly get a starter on the O line with that spot.

A deal to move up to get a WR who likely won't produce for 2-3 years if at all and cost us additional picks is way worse. Odds are you get a non-productive player and nothing else. Essentially you put all yuor chips on CJ. Ridiculous.

Both Briggs and CJ will have a cap number, the difference is Briggs has a btter chance of being productive and we get a decent pick.

I don't like either scenario but I'll go for the Briggs deal over one for CJ anyday,

[FanFromArizona]

too miserable to even contemplate.. if that is so, my guess is that gibbs will no longer be coach.. he will not go through another debacle of a season

the part that doesn't make sense is why doesn't Gibbs VETO this?

My bet is that he is playing the smoke blowing role he always plays....maximize the tradeability of the #6 pick.

[Emmanouel8]

the part that doesn't make sense is why doesn't Gibbs VETO this?

My bet is that he is playing the smoke blowing role he always plays....maximize the tradeability of the #6 pick.


One would think... :banghead:

[urobm]

I'm all for it if Calvin can play DE.


LOL, yea exactly, you think he can give us atleast 60 tackles and 10 sacks.

[urobm]

he seems to play better against the run, as opposed to pass rushing.

maybe with an offseason to add strength ??


He does play the run very well, and is pretty good in coverage. Didn't really see him do to much pass rushing in college or in the last few games of the season when he finally got in there. Why he sat behind Holdman the entire season is baffling. I mean I am a Greg Williams fan and all, but it seemed like every big run went right at #57.

[shally]

the part that doesn't make sense is why doesn't Gibbs VETO this?

My bet is that he is playing the smoke blowing role he always plays....maximize the tradeability of the #6 pick.
see my comments elsewhere.. this might be gibbs rolling the dice one last time

[shally]

He does play the run very well, and is pretty good in coverage. Didn't really see him do to much pass rushing in college or in the last few games of the season when he finally got in there. Why he sat behind Holdman the entire season is baffling. I mean I am a Greg Williams fan and all, but it seemed like every big run went right at #57.

lindsey.. and now DL is gone...

[silverspring]

We need a GM.

I like calvin johnson, probably more than the next guy, but cmon gibbs what are you thinking?

[BIGSEF3]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/28/AR2006082800465.html

Gibbs did not identify the other teams with which the Redskins discussed possible trades. The Detroit Lions, who have the second overall pick, are thought to be eager to trade down in the draft order......Trading up would be difficult for the Redskins, given their dearth of other selections in this year's draft. Gibbs said the club would like to retain all of next year's draft choices, which would further limit the immediate options...."You certainly wouldn't want to be sitting there and feel like you paid all that money and took a shot at something you really, really feel like may have a hole in it," Gibbs said. "You don't want that. . . . Our preference would be probably to move back. But the odds may be that it's better for us to move up because it's easier to do and We can do it"........... Gibbs said he met this week with cornerback Shawn Springs and wide receiver Brandon Lloyd, who are training nearby.

Our #6, Brandon Lloyd, and Shawn Springs, to Detroit for their #2 which the Skins lose to draft Calvin Johnson. You heard it hear first.

[Emmanouel8]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/28/AR2006082800465.html



Our #6, Brandon Lloyd, and Shawn Springs, to Detroit for their #2 which the Skins lose to draft Calvin Johnson. You heard it hear first.

I think that would destroy our cap, maybe I'm worng. Why on earth would detroit want a 30+ year old CB and a bum WR? They can do better elsewhere

[silverspring]

I think that would destroy our cap, maybe I'm worng. Why on earth would detroit want a 30+ year old CB and a bum WR? They can do better elsewhere

What did you think we freed up all that cap space so we could sign cooley and taylor?:rolleyes:

[Emmanouel8]

What did you think we freed up all that cap space so we could sign cooley and taylor?:rolleyes:

Or maybe sign a stud D lineman? I mean what was I thinking ;)

[BIGSEF3]

I think that would destroy our cap, maybe I'm worng. Why on earth would detroit want a 30+ year old CB and a bum WR? They can do better elsewhere

Detroit wants out of the #2 spot, which means they have several needs they need to fill. They lost Dre Bly. When healthy, Shawn Springs is without a doubt one of the elite CBs in the league. Despite all the WRs theyve drafted in recent years, only one of them is really any good. Brandon Lloyd can be a spectacular WR. I was just talking to a 49er fan today who said most 49er fans would give anything to have lloyd back. Most importantly, the lions need a QB and if the trade happened, Brady Quinn would-without a doubt-still be there at #6. Why pay Quinn #2 money when they can pay him #6 money.... This trade will happen if we dont opt to go the Briggs route and The raiders dont take CJ themselves.

[Meatsnack]

No way, the Briggs deal gets Briggs and a player at #31. At least we know Briggs can contribute and you can possibly get a starter on the O line with that spot.

A deal to move up to get a WR who likely won't produce for 2-3 years if at all and cost us additional picks is way worse. Odds are you get a non-productive player and nothing else. Essentially you put all yuor chips on CJ. Ridiculous.

Both Briggs and CJ will have a cap number, the difference is Briggs has a btter chance of being productive and we get a decent pick.

I don't like either scenario but I'll go for the Briggs deal over one for CJ anyday,With respect, you are overlooking the "P" word: potential. Briggs is a known quantity. Reasonably young, productive but not an impact player (ints, fumbles, sacks, etc.) CJ has the physical ability to be a matchup nightmare from day 1. At 6'5", 230#, and 4.35 speed he can outrun, outjump, and outreach anyone he plays against. With a decent QB there will be plays, much like Bob Hayes with the Cowboys back when, where he simply cannot be stopped.

The argument against is the "X-factor". Matt Jones, the QB nee WR from Arkansas who was drafted by the Jags a couple of years back, 6'6", 240#, big speed and he has done...not a lot. But my bet is that Al Saunders and Joe Gibbs can use Johnson better than del Rio uses Jones. And that Campbell is a better QB than Leftwich. If you were confident you were drafting Jerry Rice, would you trade up to get him?

In my opinion, CJ is a special athlete. I still wouldn't trade up (much) to get him. Our offense can find other ways to be productive. Our defense is mess.

[Emmanouel8]

Detroit wants out of the #2 spot, which means they have several needs they need to fill. They lost Dre Bly. When healthy, Shawn Springs is without a doubt one of the elite CBs in the league. Despite all the WRs theyve drafted in recent years, only one of them is really any good. Brandon Lloyd can be a spectacular WR. I was just talking to a 49er fan today who said most 49er fans would give anything to have lloyd back. Most importantly, the lions need a QB and if the trade happened, Brady Quinn would-without a doubt-still be there at #6. Why pay Quinn #2 money when they can pay him #6 money.... This trade will happen if we dont opt to go the Briggs route and The raiders dont take CJ themselves.

Lloyd can go back to San Fran he plain sucks, and Springs has one maybe two more years before he hangs it up. He also has an injury bug. It's Matt Millen, so maybe he's that freaking dumb but we're even dumber for doing something like this. We don't need a WR!

[BIGSEF3]

Lloyd can go back to San Fran he plain sucks, and Springs has one maybe two more years before he hangs it up. He also has an injury bug. It's Matt Millen, so maybe he's that freaking dumb but we're even dumber for doing something like this. We don't need a WR!

Thats almost exactly word for word what I can told this 49er fan.....

We do because Lloyd sucks, Randel El will never be more than a #3 and Thrash is probably playing his last year. We have No one capeable of complementing Moss. We have a young QB named Jason Campbell who Joe Gibbs feels is the future of this franchise. If you want your young QB to succeed, then you give him a big target to throw to... enter calvin johnson.

[Emmanouel8]

With respect, you are overlooking the "P" word: potential. Briggs is a known quantity. Reasonably young, productive but not an impact player (ints, fumbles, sacks, etc.) CJ has the physical ability to be a matchup nightmare from day 1. At 6'5", 230#, and 4.35 speed he can outrun, outjump, and outreach anyone he plays against. With a decent QB there will be plays, much like Bob Hayes with the Cowboys back when, where he simply cannot be stopped.

The argument against is the "X-factor". Matt Jones, the QB nee WR from Arkansas who was drafted by the Jags a couple of years back, 6'6", 240#, big speed and he has done...not a lot. But my bet is that Al Saunders and Joe Gibbs can use Johnson better than del Rio uses Jones. And that Campbell is a better QB than Leftwich. If you were confident you were drafting Jerry Rice, would you trade up to get him?

In my opinion, CJ is a special athlete. I still wouldn't trade up (much) to get him. Our offense can find other ways to be productive. Our defense is mess.


I tend to overlook the "p" word for the "L" word. LOGIC! Calvin is no different than any other 1st round WR. He has a high probablity to fail just like every other WR that comes out. WR is a position you draft in the 2nd round, IMO you get about the same probabilty of success and more value. Measurables and potential are smoke screens.

Regardless we don't need a WR, Randy Moss is available trade the #6 for him at least.

[redskin_rich]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/28/AR2006082800465.html



Our #6, Brandon Lloyd, and Shawn Springs, to Detroit for their #2 which the Skins lose to draft Calvin Johnson. You heard it hear first.
That is absolutely impossible from a cap perspective, without cutting a chunk of our roster and it is just ridiculously reckless and ignorant from any other perspective.

[BIGSEF3]

That is absolutely impossible from a cap perspective, without cutting a chunk of our roster and it is just ridiculously reckless and ignorant from any other perspective.

wow, do you realize that you have described this front office to a tee?

[shally]

With respect, you are overlooking the "P" word: potential. Briggs is a known quantity. Reasonably young, productive but not an impact player (ints, fumbles, sacks, etc.) CJ has the physical ability to be a matchup nightmare from day 1. At 6'5", 230#, and 4.35 speed he can outrun, outjump, and outreach anyone he plays against. With a decent QB there will be plays, much like Bob Hayes with the Cowboys back when, where he simply cannot be stopped.

The argument against is the "X-factor". Matt Jones, the QB nee WR from Arkansas who was drafted by the Jags a couple of years back, 6'6", 240#, big speed and he has done...not a lot. But my bet is that Al Saunders and Joe Gibbs can use Johnson better than del Rio uses Jones. And that Campbell is a better QB than Leftwich. If you were confident you were drafting Jerry Rice, would you trade up to get him?

In my opinion, CJ is a special athlete. I still wouldn't trade up (much) to get him. Our offense can find other ways to be productive. Our defense is mess.

the road to finding the "next jerry rice" has potholes in it so large you could lose a VW bus in it.. no position is so difficult to project from college to the nfl as wideout...

[Meatsnack]

I tend to overlook the "p" word for the "L" word. LOGIC! Calvin is no different than any other 1st round WR. He has a high probablity to fail just like every other WR that comes out. WR is a position you draft in the 2nd round, IMO you get about the same probabilty of success and more value. Measurables and potential are smoke screens.

Regardless we don't need a WR, Randy Moss is available trade the #6 for him at least.
Gosh, E. If you're going to throw "logic" up in my face I guess there's no talking to you. :D

[Emmanouel8]

Thats almost exactly word for word what I can told this 49er fan.....

We do because Lloyd sucks, Randel El will never be more than a #3 and Thrash is probably playing his last year. We have No one capeable of complementing Moss. We have a young QB named Jason Campbell who Joe Gibbs feels is the future of this franchise. If you want your young QB to succeed, then you give him a big target to throw to... enter calvin johnson.

He can throw to Cooley and Portis. It's a hole but a #2 WR does not warrant a pick and cap hit like that. If we we were minus Moss maybe but we have a bigger hole on the defensive line. Stay at #6 grab a D lineman

[MikeBass]

smoke...screen...???:confused:

I really do not think that this is smoke screen. You win games by out scoring the other teams. i.e GIbbs I's scoring record. We have not been putting points on the board like Gibbs was used to when he was coordinating the "air Coryell's" offense nor when he was orchestrating our offense in previous years.

I think that he feels that he has done work on a defense that ineffective because of injuries this past season and, now, he is looking to sure up our intermediate and red-zone passing offense.

[Emmanouel8]

Gosh, E. If you're going to throw "logic" up in my face I guess there's no talking to you. :D

You started it, "potential?!" Thats like a word Parcells made obsolete and taboo years ago. :p

[FanFromArizona]

Thats almost exactly word for word what I can told this 49er fan.....

We do because Lloyd sucks, Randel El will never be more than a #3 and Thrash is probably playing his last year. We have No one capeable of complementing Moss. We have a young QB named Jason Campbell who Joe Gibbs feels is the future of this franchise. If you want your young QB to succeed, then you give him a big target to throw to... enter calvin johnson.

Let me assure you that Lloyd is not going anywhere anytime soon.
We used draft picks and gave him a monster contract and they will not give up on him as quickly. He has this year to show something.

[skinsfan36]

if i didnt like cj then i would say this gibbs offense is run first and moss and cooley are beast and are is good,loyd cant be any worse next yr. but cj is a monster so u have to consider him. if we could of kept our tgird then we could draft a dlinemen there err stupid duckett!

[BIGSEF3]

He can throw to Cooley and Portis. It's a hole but a #2 WR does not warrant a pick and cap hit like that. If we we were minus Moss maybe but we have a bigger hole on the defensive line. Stay at #6 grab a D lineman

It wouldnt be any more of a cap hit than the 20M garaunteed we would be giving to Briggs... Nothing is impossible for this team salary-cap wise. Personally, I think this whole briggs thing is a smokescreen to pressure the lions into accepting our offer.

Also, check out this quote from SI.com

"From what you hear, your best bargains this year will be in the second round,'' Gibbs said. "That's where a lot of the players are. It's almost as if once you get past all the hype of the first round, that's where all the guys that you want will be.''

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/don_banks/03/28/owners.snaps/index.html

If we were truly serious about Briggs and the Bears were reluctant to take a player at #6 because of the high salary that player would demand, why would Gibbs make public comments about how great the "bargains" are in the 2nd round.... close to where the bears #1 is?.... Gibbs is manipulating things so the Skins get what they want and its calvin johnson.

[shally]

Let me assure you that Lloyd is not going anywhere anytime soon.
We used draft picks and gave him a monster contract and they will not give up on him as quickly. He has this year to show something.

what he has to show first is a sea change in attitude..

[FanFromArizona]

what he has to show first is a sea change in attitude..

which is why I give him the year. The big money in his contract is in the latter years....he'll need to show the production and attitude if he wants us to show him the money.

[Emmanouel8]

It wouldnt be any more of a cap hit than the 20M garaunteed we would be giving to Briggs... Nothing is impossible for this team salary-cap wise. Personally, I think this whole briggs thing is a smokescreen to pressure the lions into accepting our offer.

Also, check out this quote from SI.com



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/don_banks/03/28/owners.snaps/index.html

If we were truly serious about Briggs and the Bears were reluctant to take a player at #6 because of the high salary that player would demand, why would Gibbs make public comments about how great the "bargains" are in the 2nd round.... close to where the bears #1 is?.... Gibbs is manipulating things so the Skins get what they want and its calvin johnson.

Briggs trade is nothing I want to do either, but between the two it makes more sense if thats believable. stay at #6 take a D lineman!!

[Meatsnack]

the road to finding the "next jerry rice" has potholes in it so large you could lose a VW bus in it.. no position is so difficult to project from college to the nfl as wideout...
Hmmm... just to head this off, I am not predicting that CJ is the next Jerry Rice. It is a rhetorical question. If you were Joe Gibbs and you saw CJ work out in Atlanta and had watched all his film and had visions of TDs dancing in your head and were 100% conviced he was The Next Big Thing, what would you do?

And as a serious answer to E8
I tend to overlook the "p" word for the "L" word. LOGIC! Calvin is no different than any other 1st round WR. He has a high probablity to fail just like every other WR that comes out. WR is a position you draft in the 2nd round, IMO you get about the same probabilty of success and more value. Measurables and potential are smoke screens.

Regardless we don't need a WR, Randy Moss is available trade the #6 for him at least.You are right in that the past tells us that drafting WRs in the first is a high risk proposition. A serious study of draft "value" as a function of market efficiency was published a few years ago by some very serious PhDs. Their conclusion: teams would be far better served drafting heavily in rounds 2-4 and almost never paying the money to draft in round 1. Ironically,the Bobby Beathard school of drafting.

But just like flipping coins, one guy busting out has no impact on the probability of the next going up or down. Logic says do your homework and believe what your eyes, ears, and experience tells you.

[BIGSEF3]

Briggs trade is nothing I want to do either, but between the two it makes more sense if thats believable. stay at #6 take a D lineman!!

IMO either option (Briggs or CJ) is infinately better than staying at 6 and taking a d-lineman. the linemen likely to be taken around #6 are all overrated. the only reason i would like the briggs trade is it would put us in a position to take a bargain D-lineman at #31 or trade down further and get a couple 2nd round picks.

[MikeBass]

if i didnt like cj then i would say this gibbs offense is run first and moss and cooley are beast and are is good,loyd cant be any worse next yr. but cj is a monster so u have to consider him. if we could of kept our tgird then we could draft a dlinemen there err stupid duckett!

Gibbs' offense has always been establishing the lead first and then taking control of the game with our running game. IMO, this is why we aquired ARE and Lloyd last season and it did not work out that way and now Gibbs may try CJ along with Moss. We already have the runners to control the game once we get the lead.

[lakewinola]

Peter King speculates the Redskins trading up with the Raiders

Skins take Calvin Johnson #1 overall.

Raiders get:
# 6 pick of the 2007 draft
2008 first and second round picks
Antwaan Randle El

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/03/27/nfl0402/1.html

[akhhorus]

Peter King speculates the Redskins trading up with the Raiders

Skins take Calvin Johnson #1 overall.

Raiders get:
2008 first and second round picks
Antwaan Randle El

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/03/27/nfl0402/1.html

So, we keep the #6 then?

And this isn't even speculation, he's just saying what he would do.

[lakewinola]

So, we keep the #6 then?

And this isn't even speculation, he's just saying what he would do.

I forgot to add that in, yes raiders get #6. I know that's what he is saying he would do, but it is interesting coupled with the rumors of the skins moving up in the draft.

[akhhorus]

I forgot to add that in, yes raiders get #6. I know that's what he is saying he would do, but it is interesting coupled with the rumors of the skins moving up in the draft.

If you believe anything coming out of Gibbs' mouth about the draft from Lent on, I have a bridge to sell you.

[lakewinola]

If you believe anything coming out of Gibbs' mouth about the draft from Lent on, I have a bridge to sell you.

I don't believe anything comming out, but the scenario is one to look at.

[cmdlost29]

So, we keep the #6 then?


Nope, we give up this years 1st, next years 1st and 2nd, and ARE for Calvin Johnson...I'll be very pissed if we do that :cry:

[lakewinola]

Nope, we give up this years 1st, next years 1st and 2nd, and ARE for Calvin Johnson...I'll be very pissed if we do that :cry:

I also think that would be way too much!

[akhhorus]

Nope, we give up this years 1st, next years 1st and 2nd, and ARE for Calvin Johnson...I'll be very pissed if we do that :cry:

No way we would do that trade and there's even less way that the Raiders are smart enough to hold out for that.

Why should anyone get upset about something Peach King is speculating he would do, not anything we would/could do? Bringing up the Duckett deal as evidence is moronic btw.

[smoak]

Joe Gibbs acknowledges that the Redskins have talked to two teams about trading up, and hinted Calvin Johnson would be a consideration.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2007/03/trading_up.html?nav=rss_blog

I'm not big on trading up for Calvin Johnson, but I think he was a stud.... Man, why did we have to beat anyone last season. :rolleyes:

[esmith1790]

That is absolutely impossible from a cap perspective, without cutting a chunk of our roster and it is just ridiculously reckless and ignorant from any other perspective.


Glad someone threw the BS flag on that proposal!

[CNYSkinFan]

The only thing I hate more thern the Lance briggs trade is the talk of now trading up. I swear to god I may draop a bomb on fedex if that happened.

(And by "bomb" I mean fart, and by "dropping" I mean sticking my but out a southern facing window and ho[ing for the best)

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Peter King throws another log on the trade up fire.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/03/27/nfl0402/index.html

On Sunday, Washington brass scoffed at the notion that the team would move up to get Johnson. But in truth the Skins are the only club outside the top five that can put together a package of picks and players attractive enough to snag Johnson.

[smoak]

While I was sitting on the can, I came to the conclusion that if we want Johnson, we need to go up to #3. I just think Russell to Oakland makes too much sense and the Lions wouldn't allow Millen to take another WR (would they).

But Johnson won't get past 3-4.

[James F. Quinn]

the road to finding the "next jerry rice" has potholes in it so large you could lose a VW bus in it.. no position is so difficult to project from college to the nfl as wideout...
Aw C'mon, SHALLY. Who knows...he could be the next Mike Williams (about whom similar claims were made.)

[shally]

Peter King throws another log on the trade up fire.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/03/27/nfl0402/index.html

On Sunday, Washington brass scoffed at the notion that the team would move up to get Johnson. But in truth the Skins are the only club outside the top five that can put together a package of picks and players attractive enough to snag Johnson.

players ? what players, pray tell ??

[SpicyMcHaggis]

players ? what players, pray tell ??
And most of all, what picks? Next year's?? Every team has those...

[SkinsfaninNJ]

And most of all, what picks? Next year's?? Every team has those...
Every first round pick for the rest of my natural life.:)

[fent]

We're bringing Russell in for a meeting.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2817276

[Dolla Bill]

Dear Lord. What is the FO doing? Gibbs must think CJ is the 2nd coming of Art Monk.

[Dolla Bill]

We're bringing Russell in for a meeting.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2817276


Russell has bust written all over him IMHO.

[shally]

We're bringing Russell in for a meeting.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2817276

precautionary ?? at least i hope so..

[shally]

Russell has bust written all over him IMHO.


less than vince young did..and that turned out pretty good

[SimplyZ]

We're bringing Russell in for a meeting.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2817276


i didnt think i see another scenario i hated more than briggs...the next day

[BIGSEF3]

the russell thing is just a smokescreen. IMO we are trading with detroit on draft day if the raiders dont take johnson. if they do, then we do the bears-briggs trade.

[Redskin4Life]

i didnt think i see another scenario i hated more than briggs...the next day
I think we're either trading with the Chargers or the Pats... if we trade with the Chargers, we'll have to get Calvin. Then trade him to the Chargers for #16 (RB Turner to the Pack), #30. Or we'd have to move up to get Calvin so we can trade him to the Chargers (would explain why we're moving up) for both their first and their 2nd. We'd probably have to give up #6, Springs and our 2nd next year for the #2.

Or Landry to the Pats for their #24, #28, #91....

[shally]

I think we're either trading with the Chargers or the Pats... if we trade with the Chargers, we'll have to get Calvin. Then trade him to the Chargers for #16 (RB Turner to the Pack), #30. Or we'd have to move up to get Calvin so we can trade him to the Chargers (would explain why we're moving up) for both their first and their 2nd. We'd probably have to give up #6, Springs and our 2nd next year for the #2.

Or Landry to the Pats for their #24, #28, #91....

now that is interesting to think about.. is the trade to the pats for enough points to make it worthwhile ?

[lakeskin]

Who have the Redskins brought in for interviews? Anyone have a list?

[S.Taylor36]

I posted it in the Lance Briggs marathon thread and now I'll post it here...Please check out the Washington Redskins Front Office at work

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1QtCq_NVyM

[S.Taylor36]

You hear more about the Redskins #6 pick than the actual 1st pick in the draft.

[Redskin4Life]

now that is interesting to think about.. is the trade to the pats for enough points to make it worthwhile ?
#6 = 1600

#24 = 740
#28 = 660
#91 = 136

Total = 1536

[Redskin4Life]

You hear more about the Redskins #6 pick than the actual 1st pick in the draft.
No one cares about the teams at the top of the draft... but the media LOVES to slam on us. And with our desire to get out of this pick at all costs, we're pretty easy targets for the mediots...

[Redskin4Life]

#6 = 1600

#24 = 740
#28 = 660
#91 = 136

Total = 1536
With those picks, I see us taking...

#24, Chris Houston, CB
#28, Tank Tyler, DT
#91, Josh Beekman, OG

[Fathead]

King has us giving up next years 1st, 2nd, the 6, and Randel El to get the raiders pick to draft Johnson.




WTH?

[S.Taylor36]

King has us giving up next years 1st, 2nd, the 6, and Randel El to get the raiders pick to draft Johnson.




WTH?

They make anything close to that deal I'll start over and become an Arena League football fan.

[akhhorus]

King has us giving up next years 1st, 2nd, the 6, and Randel El to get the raiders pick to draft Johnson.

WTH?

Thats his speculations of what he would do, and NOT based on any rumors or fact.

[shally]

King has us giving up next years 1st, 2nd, the 6, and Randel El to get the raiders pick to draft Johnson.




WTH?

this is simply absurd.. a total product of his intestinal gas

[SimplyZ]

With those picks, I see us taking...

#24, Chris Houston, CB
#28, Tank Tyler, DT
#91, Josh Beekman, OG
*crosses fingers*

too bad i dont know that the patriots want anyone in the #6

[smoak]

*crosses fingers*

too bad i dont know that the patriots want anyone in the #6

Oh and they aren't that stupid either. ;)

[shally]

Oh and they aren't that stupid either. ;)

depending upon how they view maroney's injury, the pats could be in the market for a shot at either peterson or lynch

[Redskin4Life]

Oh and they aren't that stupid either. ;)
Stupid enough to trade a 2nd and a 6th for a player that resembles Troy Brown???

Or stupid enough to trade a second and third for a guy that had 13 receptions for 152 yrds for the season???

Come on, Smoak. You have to admit. They're more lucky than smart....

[Redskin4Life]

depending upon how they view maroney's injury, the pats could be in the market for a shot at either peterson or lynch
I was thinking Landry but Peterson/Lynch could be an option too...

I wouldn't be surprised if the Bills call too on draft day if Peterson's available.

[Sweepea436]

the d line is not good enough to remain as is for next year.. no way, no way...


Agreed. A good D line turns average players in to stars........

[openallnight]

Peter King throws another log on the trade up fire.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/03/27/nfl0402/index.html

On Sunday, Washington brass scoffed at the notion that the team would move up to get Johnson. But in truth the Skins are the only club outside the top five that can put together a package of picks and players attractive enough to snag Johnson.

ARRRGGGGHHHH, I mistakingly opened that link :banghead:
And you even told me that it was by the evil one himself. I must hurry and wash my eyeballs out and pray for forgiveness!!!

[soch21]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2817276

[redskinz#1fan]

Not again! Can we close this thread, because this has already been discussed every which way possible. This is old news...not to mention the fact that there is no chance in hell that we pick this kid!:banghead:

[Live4BurgandyandGold]

Quite honestly i think the best thing the Redskins can do is trade away all of thier picks this year for picks next year. Remove all the over the hill players and start from scratch.

Kidding aside, until this team realizes that the draft is a paramount part of building a succesful team we might has well stop paying attention to what they do in the off-season because historically its never made a bit of difference.

That said. I have faith that if anyone can turn this around Joe can.

[redskin_rich]

Merged.

All the reported trade scenarios have been discussed ad nauseum on this board, just read through the threads and you will get all the info you need and don't need.

[bigcmr]

Smoke screen my friends. Remember what happened that year when we drafted Sean Taylor. Every so called expert said it was a done deal. We were takeing Winslow. Well Gibbs had them all fooled.

[skinsfan36]

Smoke screen my friends. Remember what happened that year when we drafted Sean Taylor. Every so called expert said it was a done deal. We were takeing Winslow. Well Gibbs had them all fooled.
which makes think we may draft adams or anderson since we have hardly heard anything about them

[MikeBass]

Smoke screen my friends. Remember what happened that year when we drafted Sean Taylor. Every so called expert said it was a done deal. We were takeing Winslow. Well Gibbs had them all fooled.

We did not draft Winslow because he was late for his meeting with Gibbs and really did not show any interest in being with the team. But with hind site being 20-20 I am happy that all that happened.

[akhhorus]

We did not draft Winslow because he was late for his meeting with Gibbs and really did not show any interest in being with the team. But with hind site being 20-20 I am happy that all that happened.

Winslow also said to anyone who listened that Gibbs promised him that the Skins would take him if he was there. I think that was the point trying to be made.

[urobm]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/28/AR2006082800465.html



Our #6, Brandon Lloyd, and Shawn Springs, to Detroit for their #2 which the Skins lose to draft Calvin Johnson. You heard it hear first.


Sounds like a possible plan.

[urobm]

I think we're either trading with the Chargers or the Pats... if we trade with the Chargers, we'll have to get Calvin. Then trade him to the Chargers for #16 (RB Turner to the Pack), #30. Or we'd have to move up to get Calvin so we can trade him to the Chargers (would explain why we're moving up) for both their first and their 2nd. We'd probably have to give up #6, Springs and our 2nd next year for the #2.

Or Landry to the Pats for their #24, #28, #91....


Those could help us at SS, DE, CB so im all for it.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

We did not draft Winslow because he was late for his meeting with Gibbs and really did not show any interest in being with the team. But with hind site being 20-20 I am happy that all that happened.
No way IMO, Gibbs had his eyes on Cooley and ST since the beginning.

[MikeBass]

which makes think we may draft adams or anderson since we have hardly heard anything about them

Just wondering :

which of these 2 players do you think we have to screen a team from jumping up to one of the top 5 positions to get and what team behind us will be willing to make that jump for either?

[MikeBass]

No way IMO, Gibbs had his eyes on Cooley and ST since the beginning.

You may be right but I do not see how he would have the foresight to see that Cooley would be available for him in the third round in the exact position that we were to draft.

I think that we had one lucky draft that year and I am hoping that this one will work out the same.

[bwparker]

You may be right but I do not see how he would have the foresight to see that Cooley would be available for him in the third round in the exact position that we were to draft.

I think that we had one lucky draft that year and I am hoping that this one will work out the same.
I believe we actually made a trade to move up in the third round to grab Cooley.

EDIT: I check it. Yeah we did. So, it was less a matter of Cooley falling to us and more a matter of us moving in to grab him. We traded a 2005 2nd round pick for that 2004 3rd round pick with NO and swapped 5th rounders with them as well.

[redskin_rich]

You may be right but I do not see how he would have the foresight to see that Cooley would be available for him in the third round in the exact position that we were to draft.

I think that we had one lucky draft that year and I am hoping that this one will work out the same.
We didn't have a 3rd round pick in '04, it was traded for Brunell. The Skins traded the '05 2nd round pick to acquire that 3rd and draft Cooley. It was a planned move for a player they targeted. Cooley wasn't exactly an unknown either, he was the 2nd rated TE in that draft, who led all TE's in TD's that year, even KWII.

[smoak]

Stupid enough to trade a 2nd and a 6th for a player that resembles Troy Brown???

Or stupid enough to trade a second and third for a guy that had 13 receptions for 152 yrds for the season???

Come on, Smoak. You have to admit. They're more lucky than smart....

The majority of the deals people propose here are heavily one-sided in favor of the Skins. The Patriots would be moronic to do that deal. This draft is deep and somewhat weak at the top. I'd much rather have the multiple picks.

depending upon how they view maroney's injury, the pats could be in the market for a shot at either peterson or lynch

The Pats don't panic and overreact to injuries. Although I was a fan of the deal at the time, it would have been smarter to avoid Duckett and challenge the players on the roster to step up.

[shally]

The majority of the deals people propose here are heavily one-sided in favor of the Skins. The Patriots would be moronic to do that deal. This draft is deep and somewhat weak at the top. I'd much rather have the multiple picks.



The Pats don't panic and overreact to injuries. Although I was a fan of the deal at the time, it would have been smarter to avoid Duckett and challenge the players on the roster to step up.

hindsight is 20/20... they obviously thought the 2006 team had a shot at going deep into the playoffs. but duckett was a poor fit from the start

and i am not sure they believed that betts was capable of rising to the occaision. rock we know, isnt a full time player

[Redskin4Life]

The majority of the deals people propose here are heavily one-sided in favor of the Skins. The Patriots would be moronic to do that deal. This draft is deep and somewhat weak at the top. I'd much rather have the multiple picks.

The Pats have a major need for upgrade in the secondary despite the fact they do a great job of covering that deficiency up. I think a player with the skillset of Landry would be someone that NE jumps up to get. I probably would have just taken the two first from NE but the fact that they're throwing away picks and/or money this year for guys like WES FRIGGIN' WELKER and Donte, I pulled my hamstring while brushing my teeth, Stallworth... I have to think that getting full trade value would be fair. In fact according to the chart, the Pats come out of the trade a little ahead...

[Red Bear]

hindsight is 20/20... they obviously thought the 2006 team had a shot at going deep into the playoffs. but duckett was a poor fit from the start

and i am not sure they believed that betts was capable of rising to the occaision. rock we know, isnt a full time player

but rock has a lot more experience with our oline and schemes than duckett and has worked hard to make this team every year...

[smoak]

hindsight is 20/20... they obviously thought the 2006 team had a shot at going deep into the playoffs. but duckett was a poor fit from the start

and i am not sure they believed that betts was capable of rising to the occaision. rock we know, isnt a full time player

Why was Duckett a poor fit??? They didn't use him and Betts played like a monster but I thought Duckett fit in just fine.

When you watch Betts on tape he always showed flashes (cue Keino :D). I was really impressed by the number of times he made a big play in the 2003 highlight video I watch last weekend.

[Red Bear]

The Pats have a major need for upgrade in the secondary despite the fact they do a great job of covering that deficiency up. I think a player with the skillset of Landry would be someone that NE jumps up to get. I probably would have just taken the two first from NE but the fact that they're throwing away picks this year for guys like WES FRIGGIN' WELKER and Donte, I pulled my hamstring while brushing my teeth, Stallworth... I have to think that getting full trade value would be fair. In fact according to the chart, the Pats come out of the trade a little ahead...

they didnt throw any picks away to get stallworth and i think welker will be a good role player for them who could turn into more. also take into account the pats have a way of doing more with less than any other team in the league. i see the pats as more likely to upgrade two areas at a good value in the first round instead of packaging those picks and trading up...

[smoak]

The Pats have a major need for upgrade in the secondary despite the fact they do a great job of covering that deficiency up. I think a player with the skillset of Landry would be someone that NE jumps up to get. I probably would have just taken the two first from NE but the fact that they're throwing away picks and/or money this year for guys like WES FRIGGIN' WELKER and Donte, I pulled my hamstring while brushing my teeth, Stallworth... I have to think that getting full trade value would be fair. In fact according to the chart, the Pats come out of the trade a little ahead...

Welker is a nice role player (granted they overpaid him but still). Donte may have hammy problems, but he produced and fills a need. While it may be possible that they fall in love with a guy like Landry (what is there to dislike, right?) I just see the Pats as less willing to sacrifice so much.... The were desperate for a WR last yeaer and did move up, but in the second round. They patiently waited and waited to see how things would go rather than overreact try to make a move. It is not impossible, but I highly doubt they would give up TWO top 32 players for ONE.

FYI - I was againt the Redskins doing that the year we drafted Samuels.

[urobm]

Why was Duckett a poor fit??? They didn't use him and Betts played like a monster but I thought Duckett fit in just fine.

When you watch Betts on tape he always showed flashes (cue Keino :D). I was really impressed by the number of times he made a big play in the 2003 highlight video I watch last weekend.


It was a combination of things, ofcourse with Betts playing the way he did, there was little or no room for Duckett. In addition when Duckett did get his carries he looked timid and slow. I was never in favor of the trade, and I look for the day that we have we keep all of our draft picks in one draft.

[MikeBass]

We didn't have a 3rd round pick in '04, it was traded for Brunell. The Skins traded the '05 2nd round pick to acquire that 3rd and draft Cooley. It was a planned move for a player they targeted. Cooley wasn't exactly an unknown either, he was the 2nd rated TE in that draft, who led all TE's in TD's that year, even KWII.


I guess that you could call that very good manuevering with a bit of luck involved but whatever it was I am glad it worked out as it did.

[Red Bear]

It was a combination of things, ofcourse with Betts playing the way he did, there was little or no room for Duckett. In addition when Duckett did get his carries he looked timid and slow. I was never in favor of the trade, and I look for the day that we have we keep all of our draft picks in one draft.

gibbs is recently quoted as saying he doesnt want to give up next years draft picks, lets see how that turns out. we'd have all of them but the 4th rounder if we dont trade any more away

[shally]

gibbs is recently quoted as saying he doesnt want to give up next years draft picks, lets see how that turns out. we'd have all of them but the 4th rounder if we dont trade any more away

that is the company line every year... until we find a player we cannot live without

[smoak]

It was a combination of things, ofcourse with Betts playing the way he did, there was little or no room for Duckett. In addition when Duckett did get his carries he looked timid and slow. I was never in favor of the trade, and I look for the day that we have we keep all of our draft picks in one draft.

I couldn't agree more. I was just scared that the season was over b/c Portis was hurt... I was really shocked that Duckett wasn't more productive.

[shally]

I couldn't agree more. I was just scared that the season was over b/c Portis was hurt... I was really shocked that Duckett wasn't more productive.

duckett was an insurance policy.. and an expensive one at that..

although he looks to have a lot of ron dayne in him, i still feel that the coaches misused him.. maybe in detroit he can finally show some productivity ? and maybe not

[smoak]

duckett was an insurance policy.. and an expensive one at that..

although he looks to have a lot of ron dayne in him, i still feel that the coaches misused him.. maybe in detroit he can finally show some productivity ? and maybe not

Agrre except I think he is better than Dayne... He just isn't a short yardage back as he was used.

[shally]

Agrre except I think he is better than Dayne... He just isn't a short yardage back as he was used.

both of them have greater straight line speed than lateral quickness and are slow getting off the mark. and neither has very good vision or feet..

it is interesting that while every one bashes dayne, he is STILL playing in the league.. so there is a place for a very large back

it would not surprise me if duckett continues to plug along as well.
he is very good when you get him the ball on flares or in space

[Red Bear]

that is the company line every year... until we find a player we cannot live without

actually i dont ever recall anyone from the team saying theyd like to keep next years draft picks, normally weve traded them away before anyone would have the chance.

[chrisbcbu]

This guy on warpath said something interesting. i dont really want to trade betts, but its interesting nonetheless.

http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/17670-thoughts-potential-draft-trade-cleveland.html
It was reported by Washington POst Live and by a few of my reporter buddies at the Verizon Center, that the Redskins are in talks with Cleveland for the 3rd overall pick.

So far the deal is that the Redskins will trade their 6th overall, Ladell Betts, and a 6th rounder(the one we got from the Bears) in exchange for the 3rd overall and a 3rd round draft pick.

One of the reasons is that Gibbs & D. Snyder are both enamored with the skills, physical attributes, work ethic, and upside of one Calvin Johnson!

He has been projected to go as high as #1 overall to Oakland, but not to fall farther than #4 to Tampa Bay. So essentially, we would be leap-frogging the team that is reported to be taking him.

THoughts? Comments?

[redskin_rich]

This guy on warpath said something interesting. i dont really want to trade betts, but its interesting nonetheless.

http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/17670-thoughts-potential-draft-trade-cleveland.html
Yet another rumor that is so stupid, it can't be ruled out with the clowns running the Redskins.

[chrisbcbu]

Yet another rumor that is so stupid, it can't be ruled out with the clowns running the Redskins.

Trading Betts wouldnt make sense for the Browns. Since Adrian Peterson would fall into their laps at #6.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

This guy on warpath said something interesting. i dont really want to trade betts, but its interesting nonetheless.

http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/17670-thoughts-potential-draft-trade-cleveland.html
Why does Snyder's opinion on a player count for anything? What qualification does he have, aside from being a rich guy who could afford to buy the Redskins, that lets him have a say in personnel matters?
Then people wonder why we suck....

[redskin_rich]

Why does Snyder's opinion on a player count for anything? What qualification does he have, aside from being a rich guy who could afford to buy the Redskins, that lets him have a say in personnel matters?
Then people wonder why we suck....
Snyder has been reading up and sharpening his knowledge of football.
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/4121/dummylo1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Red Bear]

Trading Betts wouldnt make sense for the Browns. Since Adrian Peterson would fall into their laps at #6.

they also have jamaal lewis now, but its a one year deal, betts is under contract longterm for relatively cheap. and the browns have had their woes with spending 1st round picks on running backs, if anything i think theyd target brady quinn at #6 or possibly a dlineman like alan branch. so from a browns standpoint the trade does make sense. tho i dont want betts to be traded, i do like the fact we'd get a 3rd rounder which id place as betts value and essentially get calvin johnson for 6th rounder after swapping picks? as much as i want to see the portis/betts 1-2 punch in 2007, this is one of the few trade rumors ive read in which we dont get screwed. the only thing i see is it leaves us a whole at backup running back and we obviously dont go dline in the first round, but what about the 3rd we'd gain? that would fill one of those holes. i can see us drafting two late round DEs and hoping one will show flashes of breaking out like we did with DTs last year

[BIGSEF3]

This guy on warpath said something interesting. i dont really want to trade betts, but its interesting nonetheless.

http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/17670-thoughts-potential-draft-trade-cleveland.html

my money says that "rumor" turns out to be someone's idea of an april fool's joke.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Snyder has been reading up and sharpening his knowledge of football.
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/4121/dummylo1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Oh well, we found our "real" GM then!

[Skins3]

many of you dont make sense all the ones that cant see past CJ's talent to realize the he will help keep the defense off the feild does that help having ball controll and keeping the defense rested does that help

how about london fletcher rocky mcCintosh or persion prielou freed smoot 4 new starters on defense to 2 on offense if the redskins were to draft calvin johnson and whoever starts at the guard positon left by dockery

and to be honset with you our offense could only get about 17 points with Jason Campbell so our offense needs works as well as the defense and there is no player on defense in the draft that would equivlate to the worth that calvin johnson has if you cant realize that then please dont ever become the next GM of the Redskins

[skinfanjon]

many of you dont make sense all the ones that cant see past CJ's talent to realize the he will help keep the defense off the feild does that help having ball controll and keeping the defense rested does that help

how about london fletcher rocky mcCintosh or persion prielou freed smoot 4 new starters on defense to 2 on offense if the redskins were to draft calvin johnson and whoever starts at the guard positon left by dockery

and to be honset with you our offense could only get about 17 points with Jason Campbell so our offense needs works as well as the defense and there is no player on defense in the draft that would equivlate to the worth that calvin johnson has if you cant realize that then please dont ever become the next GM of the Redskins

Please dont ever become the next beat reporter of the Redskins...

[SpicyMcHaggis]

many of you dont make sense all the ones that cant see past CJ's talent to realize the he will help keep the defense off the feild does that help having ball controll and keeping the defense rested does that help

how about london fletcher rocky mcCintosh or persion prielou freed smoot 4 new starters on defense to 2 on offense if the redskins were to draft calvin johnson and whoever starts at the guard positon left by dockery

and to be honset with you our offense could only get about 17 points with Jason Campbell so our offense needs works as well as the defense and there is no player on defense in the draft that would equivlate to the worth that calvin johnson has if you cant realize that then please dont ever become the next GM of the Redskins
Punctuation can be your friend if you let him....

[nicefellow31]

[QUOTE=SpicyMcHaggis]Punctuation can be your friend if you let him....[/Q

:lol1:

There is none in his post.

[danny's stogie]

Punctuation can be your friend if you let him....

It's pretty embarassing that you're better in your second tongue than a lot of us are in our first.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

It's pretty embarassing that you're better in your second tongue than a lot of us are in our first.
Well, to be fair I went to school in the states for all of elementary school and junior high.
I think the sms era has not been very kind to many.

[danny's stogie]

Well, to be fair I went to school in the states for all of elementary school and junio high.
I think the sms era has not been very kind to many.

So which is your true second language? Swahili?

[SpicyMcHaggis]

So which is your true second language? Swahili?
Lol..no..Xhosa.

[urobm]

gibbs is recently quoted as saying he doesnt want to give up next years draft picks, lets see how that turns out. we'd have all of them but the 4th rounder if we dont trade any more away


Please let us keep our picks. I wish I could believe that but you know how things go on draft day.

[urobm]

many of you dont make sense all the ones that cant see past CJ's talent to realize the he will help keep the defense off the feild does that help having ball controll and keeping the defense rested does that help

how about london fletcher rocky mcCintosh or persion prielou freed smoot 4 new starters on defense to 2 on offense if the redskins were to draft calvin johnson and whoever starts at the guard positon left by dockery

and to be honset with you our offense could only get about 17 points with Jason Campbell so our offense needs works as well as the defense and there is no player on defense in the draft that would equivlate to the worth that calvin johnson has if you cant realize that then please dont ever become the next GM of the Redskins


I can see your argument, but if our defense was intact then hey why not try try to draft the next great receiver. Well, our defense is not so we shouldnt draft him. It doesnt matter how many point you score on offense if your defense cant stop anyone, its meaningless. Thus far its been a good offseason. We signed London to be that runstuffer that we lacked, smoot definately upgrades the position, and to make it complete we need to take that DE that is gonna be a force against the run, and apply pressure to the QB that we have lack for so long. It gets frustrating having to blitz the corners and LBs to get pressure, it would be nice to get some pressure from the front 4. A good DE will give Carter, Griff, and Golston one on one blocking. With the way Carter played at the end of last year, can you imagine how good he could be a force at the other DE spot. For the record though, CJ is an immense talent that ill make some team extremely happy.

[MikeBass]

I can see your argument, but if our defense was intact then hey why not try try to draft the next great receiver. Well, our defense is not so we shouldnt draft him. It doesnt matter how many point you score on offense if your defense cant stop anyone, its meaningless. Thus far its been a good offseason. We signed London to be that runstuffer that we lacked, smoot definately upgrades the position, and to make it complete we need to take that DE that is gonna be a force against the run, and apply pressure to the QB that we have lack for so long. It gets frustrating having to blitz the corners and LBs to get pressure, it would be nice to get some pressure from the front 4. A good DE will give Carter, Griff, and Golston one on one blocking. With the way Carter played at the end of last year, can you imagine how good he could be a force at the other DE spot. For the record though, CJ is an immense talent that ill make some team extremely happy.

Gibbs seems to be content with the defensive line situation this coming season:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/redskins/home.htm


We haven't made wholesale changes there. We have the players, generally. We asked how we can help ourselves. It was depth at corner and middle 'backer. I believe we have a very good chance of bouncing back."

[Skins3]

Punctuation can be your friend if you let him....


urobm has a few grammatical errors in their post be sure to grade the post and I would like to know who got a better grade

beings how this is a PROPERENGLISH.COM and not HAILREDSKINS.COM

[akhhorus]

urobm has a few grammatical errors in their post be sure to grade the post and I would like to know who got a better grade

beings how this is a PROPERENGLISH.COM and not HAILREDSKINS.COM

This is a written medium, if people can't understand you(and your post was hard to understand), then you can't communicate here. You don't have any punctuation in your post and its a string of run-on sentences.

[Skins3]

actully send me the results of all 5537 members so that way if I need a tutor I know who the english majors are and I can send my post to them then they can send it back to me with all the proper grammatical fixings then I will post it for all members to see 100% error free

[akhhorus]

actully send me the results of all 5537 members so that way if I need a tutor I know who the english majors are and I can send my post to them then they can send it back to me with all the proper grammatical fixings then I will post it for all members to see 100% error free

You're doing it again. If you can't write basic english, maybe this isn't the medium for you?

[Skins3]

This is a written medium, if people can't understand you(and your post was hard to understand), then you can't communicate here. You don't have any punctuation in your post and its a string of run-on sentences.

it is english, I would be willing to bet their arent 5 english majors if any of the 5500 members, if you cant understand what I wrote then do not reply dont disrespect me

[akhhorus]

it is english, I would be willing to bet their arent 5 english majors if any of the 5500 members, if you cant understand what I wrote then do not reply dont disrespect me

I understood what you meant, but its doesn't answer the issue. And it doesn't matter who is and isn't an english major, you just write in a style that makes it hard to read what you wrote. You used punctuation here, why couldn't you do that before?

[danny's stogie]

it is english, I would be willing to bet their arent 5 english majors if any of the 5500 members, if you cant understand what I wrote then do not reply dont disrespect me

What's disrespectful is that everyone else makes an effort to post legible, complete sentences (or thoughts), and you think that you don't have to be held to that same standard. This isn't about people busting on you for poor grammar, it's about making sure this board doesn't end up looking like trash.

[Skins3]

add grammer and spell check to the post should be easy to do that

you cant tell where halve the members post begin or end with all the pictures and comments and signatures so dont talk about trashy looking when 1 person says "YES" and their post lasts for two pages of scrolling cause they have a picture of their sister with a picture of their babby just born with captions then 4 different singnature then a picure of chris cooley with a caption as well about 7 different smileys following

[FanFromArizona]

add grammer and spell check to the post should be easy to do that

you cant tell where halve the members post begin or end with all the pictures and comments and signatures so dont talk about trashy looking when 1 person says "YES" and their post lasts for two pages of scrolling cause they have a picture of their sister with a picture of their babby just born with captions then 4 different singnature then a picure of chris cooley with a caption as well about 7 different smileys following


you're KILLING ME! or would you prefer youre killing me take your choise is it that hard to use some punctuation marra goosh

[akhhorus]

add grammer and spell check to the post should be easy to do that

you cant tell where halve the members post begin or end with all the pictures and comments and signatures so dont talk about trashy looking when 1 person says "YES" and their post lasts for two pages of scrolling cause they have a picture of their sister with a picture of their babby just born with captions then 4 different singnature then a picure of chris cooley with a caption as well about 7 different smileys following

I really don't understand what you're trying to say here. So because of what other people have as pictures in their signatures, we can't criticize you for your terrible writing skills?

[Skins3]

danny's stoggie is talking about trashy looking posts becasue they dont have punctuation.

my response was what looks like a trashy post to me is the person(s) with 5 different pictures 8 different smileys and 7 different signature sentences.

but I dont expect you to understand a book if you start reading it from the 3rd chapter.

[akhhorus]

danny's stoggie is talking about trashy looking posts becasue they dont have punctuation.

my response was what looks like a trashy post to me is the person(s) with 5 different pictures 8 different smileys and 7 different signature sentences.

but I dont expect you to understand a book if you start reading it from the 3rd chapter.

Again: what are you talking about with the final passage? And you might not like the posts with all the smileys and signature passages, but they can write english that clear for others.

[Skins3]

you make the posts more about yourselves, then about then the actuall post

[Skins3]

but they can write english that clear for others.


I dont understand

[akhhorus]

I dont understand

When you write in run-on sentences, its hard to understand what you are talking about since there's no emphasis or inflection. This is on top of your basic grammar errors.

[Red Bear]

add grammer and spell check to the post should be easy to do that

you cant tell where halve the members post begin or end with all the pictures and comments and signatures so dont talk about trashy looking when 1 person says "YES" and their post lasts for two pages of scrolling cause they have a picture of their sister with a picture of their babby just born with captions then 4 different singnature then a picure of chris cooley with a caption as well about 7 different smileys following

i agree with everyone here that you need to separate your sentences/thoughts/ideas with some sort of punctuation. and i also agree that a lot of pictures and sigs dont relate to the subjects or discussions in a thread, and can get really annoying. but, the great admins of this forum have given us options to turn all of that off. which is what i have done, and what you should do, if you think the sigs and avatars interfere with you browsing the forum.

[Skins3]

here we are talking about punctuation and you cant even use it yourself

maybe you understand pot this is kettle black, but I would really doubt you do understand

and the coversation wasnt even with you yet you decided to chime in

maybe not such a good move on your part

[Skins3]

When you write in run-on sentences, its hard to understand what you are talking about since there's no emphasis or inflection. This is on top of your basic grammar errors.


Is this why you keep saying you dont understand or you telling me that is why I dont understand

[redskin_rich]

Skins3, if you don't want to see avatars, signatures and/or images, click on User CP in the upper left hand corner, than click user options, scroll down to the third page and uncheck whatever bothers you.

Everybody, keep this thread on the topic of the latest ridiculous trade proposal, please.

[NCskinsfanatic]

Skins3, if you don't want to see avatars, signatures and/or images, click on User CP in the upper left hand corner, than click user options, scroll down to the third page and uncheck whatever bothers you.

Everybody, keep this thread on the topic of the latest ridiculous trade proposal, please.
Rich I don't even know what the latest ridiculous trade proposal is anymore...lol.

[FanFromArizona]

Rich I don't even know what the latest ridiculous trade proposal is anymore...lol.

all of our draft picks for a GM?

[bergiemoore]

it is english, I would be willing to bet their arent 5 english majors if any of the 5500 members, if you cant understand what I wrote then do not reply dont disrespect me

One of my B.A.'s is in English. I'm sure there are at least 4 more out of the 5k+ members on this board.

[skins111111]

yup, ifn ya aint a gonna speek propur enlish orr spel rite than ya batter knot poost hear

[NCskinsfanatic]

all of our draft picks for a GM?
Yeah right and the next thing you're gonna tell me is that Art Monk isn't a hall of famer...:rolleyes:

[FanFromArizona]

Yeah right and the next thing you're gonna tell me is that Art Monk isn't a hall of famer...:rolleyes:

no, he isn't... and Crackhead is. :cry:

but I did sleep nicely last night at a Holiday Inn Express.

[Brokenstriker]

in Gibbs first go round as Coach, the Washington sports news guys made it sound like Gibbs was serious about information warfare. He provide no "real" or specific info about what he has planned, and he makes sure to distract/mislead his opposition. Don't have memories of specific examples, but I do remember it was generally a given that he used information as a weapon to put the Skins in the best position.

[SimplyZ]

I'm a current english major...does that count?

[danny's stogie]

I'm a current english major...does that count?

Wouldn't "I'm currently an English major..." be better grammar?

[bergiemoore]

Wouldn't "I'm currently an English major..." be better grammar?

Maybe he's majoring in how English is currently spoken?

[MikeBass]

I'm a current english major...does that count?

Maybe, but respecting the mod's (Redskin Rich) request of getting back to what the subject matter was would, probably, count more instead of harping on whether a fellow member used a comma, period or exclamation point when the post was, clearly, defined....


I think that trading up for Johnson would not be a, big, gamble, in fact, I think that he would be less of a gamble than drafting any other player because he is considered the top, prospective, draftee by people who are paid to evaluate, college, talent.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Maybe, but respecting the mod's (Redskin Rich) request of getting back to what the subject matter was would, probably, count more instead of harping on whether a fellow member used a comma, period or exclamation point when the post was, clearly, defined....


I think that trading up for Johnson would not be a, big, gamble, in fact, I think that he would be less of a gamble than drafting any other player because he is considered the top, prospective, draftee by people who are paid to evaluate, college, talent.
I can agree that Johnson is the top rated pick in the draft (I wouldn't draft him, but that's another story)..but the real question is what exactly would we have to give up to get him, since we have no picks from rounds 2-4, and I don't see us being able to afford giving up players (or at least players good enough to move up in the draft). I KNOW we don't want to give up this year's first and next year's first to draft a wr.

[MikeBass]

I can agree that Johnson is the top rated pick in the draft (I wouldn't draft him, but that's another story)..but the real question is what exactly would we have to give up to get him, since we have no picks from rounds 2-4, and I don't see us being able to afford giving up players (or at least players good enough to move up in the draft). I KNOW we don't want to give up this year's first and next year's first to draft a wr.

Gibbs will give up what it takes to get good passing game. This is how he won, as a coordinator, in San Diego with Joiner, Jefferson and Winslow and is how he won Superbowls in Washington with Clark Monk and Didier.

We fans are thinking Gibbs and the rushing offense, but Gibbs offenses outscored teams, badly, and THEN started running the ball.

We tried to get a potent passing game last year by picking up ARE and Lloyd but it did not work. I am telling you, look for Gibbs to try his damndest to move up to get Johnson and if that fails, to get a wide out such as Bowe, Jarrett or Meachem.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Gibbs will give up what it takes to get good passing game. This is how he won, as a coordinator, in San Diego with Joiner, Jefferson and Winslow and is how he won Superbowls in Washington with Clark Monk and Didier.

We fans are thinking Gibbs and the rushing offense, but Gibbs offenses outscored teams, badly, and THEN started running the ball.

We tried to get a potent passing game last year by picking up ARE and Lloyd but it did not work. I am telling you, look for Gibbs to try his damndest to move up to get Johnson and if that fails, to get a wide out such as Bowe, Jarrett or Meachem.
Then I'll also be looking forward to another 15 sack-10 turnover season by our defense. Good times ahead...

[MikeBass]

Then I'll also be looking forward to another 15 sack-10 turnover season by our defense. Good times ahead...

I assure you that this will not happen. The defense was not as bad as it looked last season.

We did what we needed to do in the off season to improve our defense

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I assure you that this will not happen. The defense was not as bad as it looked last season.

We did what we needed to do in the off season to improve our defense
Unfortunately, I'm not a big fan of blind faith I don't know how you can be sure of either of the things you said in the bolded sentences.

[MikeBass]

Unfortunately, I'm not a big fan of blind faith I don't know how you can be sure of either of the things you said in the bolded sentences.

Because our's , or anyone elses, defense would've dropped more gradually from the 9th to the 31st position had it not been for somethng drastic to happen. What happened was that we had injuries and had to deviate from our, regular, defensive, game plan. We will be alright this year.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Because our's , or anyone elses, defense would've dropped more gradually from the 9th to the 31st position had it not been for somethng drastic to happen. What happened was that we had injuries and had to deviate from our, regular, defensive, game plan. We will be alright this year.
What were the key injuries on the defensive line that prevented us from getting any kind of pressure whatsoever?
Giffin played 14 games.
Carter played 16 games.
Salave'a played 13, even though he was often injured, but he seems all but finished.
Wynn played 15 games (and has a pathetic 21 sacks in his career).
Daniels played 16 games (with a whopping 3 sacks).
Golston played 16 games.

[AliBabba]

What were the key injuries on the defensive line that prevented us from getting any kind of pressure whatsoever?
Giffin played 14 games.
Carter played 16 games.
Salave'a played 13, even though he was often injured, but he seems all but finished.
Wynn played 15 games (and has a pathetic 21 sacks in his career).
Daniels played 16 games (with a whopping 3 sacks).
Golston played 16 games.
the games played don't always tell the whole story, but the point is made. Injuries alone were not the reason we digressed last year, especially on the line. The real problem was line is old, and last year, it got A LOT older.

Joey S. is done, Griff is hobbled at best, and the Wynn/Daniels combo is not what it once was. Golston is young and played well above expectation, but he's not gonna anchor the line, he is a great young, cheap, home-grown(!!) complement though.

If we do trade up, then we need to figure out a way to acquire a 2nd/3rd rounder this year to address the line, because the issue is not going to fix itself. Its one of those deals where I don't want to know how Vanny Cnyder go about doing it, just get it done.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

the games played don't always tell the whole story, but the point is made. Injuries alone were not the reason we digressed last year, especially on the line. The real problem was line is old, and last year, it got A LOT older.

Joey S. is done, Griff is hobbled at best, and the Wynn/Daniels combo is not what it once was. Golston is young and played well above expectation, but he's not gonna anchor the line, he is a great young, cheap, home-grown(!!) complement though.

If we do trade up, then we need to figure out a way to acquire a 2nd/3rd rounder this year to address the line, because the issue is not going to fix itself. Its one of those deals where I don't want to know how Vanny Cnyder go about doing it, just get it done.
The only way we're gonna get a 2nd or 3rd rounder next year is the same way we're gonna trade up..either trading away players we won't be able to substitute, or destroying next year's draft by traind away all the picks. I really don't see any other way.
This team is old, and in this free agency it didn't get any younger. The last thing to do is start packaging present and future picks in order to move up in the draft or get a 3rd rounder this year.

[chrisbcbu]

I can agree that Johnson is the top rated pick in the draft (I wouldn't draft him, but that's another story)..but the real question is what exactly would we have to give up to get him, since we have no picks from rounds 2-4, and I don't see us being able to afford giving up players (or at least players good enough to move up in the draft). I KNOW we don't want to give up this year's first and next year's first to draft a wr.

It depends on who we trade with. If we try to get the 3rd pick in the draft then yes we would have to give up this years first and next years first and possibly another pick.

but if we are going for pick 4 in this draft we would have to give up our 1st this year and a 2nd next year(which is equivalent to a 3rd rounder in this years draft).

[SpicyMcHaggis]

It depends on who we trade with. If we try to get the 3rd pick in the draft then yes we would have to give up this years first and next years first and possibly another pick.

but if we are going for pick 4 in this draft we would have to give up our 1st this year and a 2nd next year(which is equivalent to a 3rd rounder in this years draft).
Either move would make me vomit.

[MikeBass]

What were the key injuries on the defensive line that prevented us from getting any kind of pressure whatsoever?
Giffin played 14 games.
Carter played 16 games.
Salave'a played 13, even though he was often injured, but he seems all but finished.
Wynn played 15 games (and has a pathetic 21 sacks in his career).
Daniels played 16 games (with a whopping 3 sacks).
Golston played 16 games.

The games played is correct but a couple of these guys played injuried all year Big Joe being one of them. When I stated the injury problem on defense I was not just pointing at the line. I consider the defense as being a unit one or two key injuries in that unit can make the entire defense look bad.

But regardless of what we are saying the deciding voices does not seem to think that the line needs any changes this year so I would not hold my breath come draft day.

[Dolla Bill]

I think the biggest injury on defense was Pierson Preleou (sp?). He was the first DB off the bench, and it caused AA to do stuff he wasn't accustomed to. Add to the mix that Marshall and Washington weren't like they were the year before.

[MikeBass]

the games played don't always tell the whole story, but the point is made. Injuries alone were not the reason we digressed last year, especially on the line. The real problem was line is old, and last year, it got A LOT older.

Joey S. is done, Griff is hobbled at best, and the Wynn/Daniels combo is not what it once was. Golston is young and played well above expectation, but he's not gonna anchor the line, he is a great young, cheap, home-grown(!!) complement though.

If we do trade up, then we need to figure out a way to acquire a 2nd/3rd rounder this year to address the line, because the issue is not going to fix itself. Its one of those deals where I don't want to know how Vanny Cnyder go about doing it, just get it done.

Again, I would not hold my breath. This line have been stable for Gibbs and Williams and I do not think that they are going to overhaul it because of one bad season. You do not, all of a sudden, become old.

[Dolla Bill]

Again, I would not hold my breath. This line have been stable for Gibbs and Williams and I do not think that they are going to overhaul it because of one bad season. You do not, all of a sudden, become old.


No, but this line has not created good pressure in at least 2 + years. Pressure leads to turnovers, and that's what this defense has lacked. Good defenses put the offense back on the field, either by TO or on downs. Last year they were horrible at both.

[bergiemoore]

No, but this line has not created good pressure in at least 2 + years. Pressure leads to turnovers, and that's what this defense has lacked. Good defenses put the offense back on the field, either by TO or on downs. Last year they were horrible at both.

The DLine was dinged, but worse, our cover safety went down on the first play of the regular season, and our top CB spent most of the season injured as well. In GW's scheme, pressure is brought from blitzing LBs and DBs. The DLine is supposed to take up the blockers.

To cover for a deficient secondary, we didn't blitz nearly as much as we did in past seasons. Instead, our LBs stayed back from the line.

Last year's defense also suffered from poor linebacker play. It shouldn't surprise anyone that Lindsey was fired. This unit got progressively worse throughout the year. When he wasn't getting a horseback ride from them, Holdman was tackling runners 10 yards from the LOS. Marshall was unable to provide the leadership that this defense needed. Washington was also bit by the injury bug later in the season. Rocky didn't play enough for me to be able to tell what kind of a player he is. In his 2 starts, he recorded 10 defensive tackles each, but the defense was gashed for a combined 450+ yards RUSHING.

Still, I would love to see us upgrade our DLine. Daniels and Wynn are going no where fast. Hopefully, Griffin rebounds and Golston improves. Carter started showing up towards the end of the year. I hope that someone teaches him how to turn inside instead of always trying to sprint around outside the Tackle. He wasn't the liability against the run that I worried he might be, though.

[colkurtz]

Again, I would not hold my breath. This line have been stable for Gibbs and Williams and I do not think that they are going to overhaul it because of one bad season. You do not, all of a sudden, become old.

19 sacks all season - a record low! 31st in defense! The DL is OLD. Wynn is 33 and would not make the team on any other NFL team - much less start. He averages a sack for every million we pay him. The statistics do not lie - we have no pass rush and haven't for over 5 years. The DL can't stop the run anymore. We need new talent there.

Our defense was the worst I've ever seen as a Redskins fan. The "our DL will be fine for another season" reasoning doesn't stand the common sense test.

[NCskinsfanatic]

This thread should be titled "throwing up" because that's what I'll be doing if we trade up at all...

[dukeuch]

In my opinion, you only trade up if:

You've got a great team and one specific need to fill, or there is a once in a decade type of QB you really want despite all of your other needs.

You do not trade up if:

You've got quite a few spots you could use improvement in, and a QB you just traded up to get a couple of years earlier. In this case, the sixth draft pick should be just fine, thank you.

[SkinsFan4Life2003]

19 sacks all season - a record low! 31st in defense! The DL is OLD. Wynn is 33 and would not make the team on any other NFL team - much less start. He averages a sack for every million we pay him. The statistics do not lie - we have no pass rush and haven't for over 5 years. The DL can't stop the run anymore. We need new talent there.

Our defense was the worst I've ever seen as a Redskins fan. The "our DL will be fine for another season" reasoning doesn't stand the common sense test.

that line sent a cold chill down my spine:devil2:

[MikeBass]

19 sacks all season - a record low! 31st in defense! The DL is OLD. Wynn is 33 and would not make the team on any other NFL team - much less start. He averages a sack for every million we pay him. The statistics do not lie - we have no pass rush and haven't for over 5 years. The DL can't stop the run anymore. We need new talent there.

Our defense was the worst I've ever seen as a Redskins fan. The "our DL will be fine for another season" reasoning doesn't stand the common sense test.

If it stands the "common sense test" for Joe Gibbs it stands it for me. The Superbowl tropheys should stand out alone. We may as well get used to and get ready to cheer for the players that we have in place. No matter who we WANT, what we HAVE is what we are going to deal with and I am more than ready to do this.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

19 sacks all season - a record low! 31st in defense! The DL is OLD. Wynn is 33 and would not make the team on any other NFL team - much less start. He averages a sack for every million we pay him. The statistics do not lie - we have no pass rush and haven't for over 5 years. The DL can't stop the run anymore. We need new talent there.

Our defense was the worst I've ever seen as a Redskins fan. The "our DL will be fine for another season" reasoning doesn't stand the common sense test.

If it stands the "common sense test" for Joe Gibbs it stands it for me. The Superbowl tropheys should stand out alone. We may as well get used to and get ready to cheer for the players that we have in place. No matter who we WANT, what we HAVE is what we are going to deal with and I am more than ready to do this.
Please no...not the "three rings" argument again...please...

[MikeBass]

Please no...not the "three rings" argument again...please...

It is fact...do you not think that these guys know what they are doing?

ONE bad defensive season and you think that Gibbs and Williams do not know what they are doing and should listen to fans who have never coached even a Pop Warner team?

[smoak]

It is fact...do you not think that these guys know what they are doing?

ONE bad defensive season and you think that Gibbs and Williams do not know what they are doing and should listen to fans who have never coached even a Pop Warner team?

I'm with you on this one MB. I don't hide behind "three rings" or point to it as why we'll "definitely" be successful in '07, but it certainly earns my respect, dedication, and patience. I'm not about to panic at the first sign of trouble.

[MikeBass]

I'm with you on this one MB. I don't hide behind "three rings" or point to it as why we'll "definitely" be successful in '07, but it certainly earns my respect, dedication, and patience. I'm not about to panic at the first sign of trouble.

Thanks Smoak

I see some kind of confidence in our D-line from a Hall of Fame coach. One who I can put ALL my trust in to give his best effort lead us back to the Superbowl. If it does not happen, I am sure that it is not going to be because a lack of effort or trust in his players from Gibbs.

Snyder, Cerrato?...I am not one of the ones who's going to down our front office. I know that they are invested and are not set out to lose games.

[warpaint]

It is fact...do you not think that these guys know what they are doing?

ONE bad defensive season and you think that Gibbs and Williams do not know what they are doing and should listen to fans who have never coached even a Pop Warner team?
when talking about the super bowl rings, I always wonder myself who to credit more for those rings, Joe Gibbs ? or
Bobby Beathard is a former general manager of the NFL. Over the course of his 38 years, his teams competed in seven Super Bowls (winning four times), beginning with the Kansas City Chiefs in 1966, Miami Dolphins in 1972 and 1973, Washington Redskins in 1982, 1983, and 1987, and the San Diego Chargers in 1994.

[MikeBass]

when talking about the super bowl rings, I always wonder myself who to credit more for those rings, Joe Gibbs ? or
Bobby Beathard is a former general manager of the NFL. Over the course of his 38 years, his teams competed in seven Super Bowls (winning four times), beginning with the Kansas City Chiefs in 1966, Miami Dolphins in 1972 and 1973, Washington Redskins in 1982, 1983, and 1987, and the San Diego Chargers in 1994.

I take, nothing, away from Bobby Beathard, he was , probably, the best GM EVER but Gibbs is a winner. Football, Nascar or whatever he endevours

[smoak]

when talking about the super bowl rings, I always wonder myself who to credit more for those rings, Joe Gibbs ? or
Bobby Beathard is a former general manager of the NFL. Over the course of his 38 years, his teams competed in seven Super Bowls (winning four times), beginning with the Kansas City Chiefs in 1966, Miami Dolphins in 1972 and 1973, Washington Redskins in 1982, 1983, and 1987, and the San Diego Chargers in 1994.

Gibbs isn't perfect, but just listen to the players from that era and see who they credit for being great. A GM can never get more credit than a long term coach IMO. Now if you have a Switzer scenario then fine, but Gibbs was the leader and the main reason we won Super Bowls (IMO and in the opinion of those who played for him).

It actually touches on an interesting draft theory I have...

Unless a player has a bad attitude or some other obvious mental shortcoming (Ryan Lean, Adam Jones, Heath Shuler, Chris Henry, Michael Westbrook, etc.) or devastating injury, the responsibility for a failed draft pick is squarely on the shoulders of the coaching staff and not the GM. Now I'm not talking about 5-7th round "flyers", but coaches should be able to mold talent into productive football players. I never hear a coach given any blame when a guy fails or credit when he suceeds.... Why is that?

Either way, while I would love to trade up to get CJ, this team needs young depth or the cupboard will be bare when Gibbs is done (again). We should try to slide back and get an extra day one pick.... even if it is in 2008.

I take, nothing, away from Bobby Beathard, he was , probably, the best GM EVER but Gibbs is a winner. Football, Nascar or whatever he endevours

Don't forget raquetball.

[dukeuch]

I'm with you on this one MB. I don't hide behind "three rings" or point to it as why we'll "definitely" be successful in '07, but it certainly earns my respect, dedication, and patience. I'm not about to panic at the first sign of trouble.

What first sign of trouble? We are averaging 7 wins a year over the last three years, with one winning season, and only 5 wins in our most recent. We've had signs of trouble since the first year of Joe G's return, admittedly not necessarily specific to the d-line (although I don't think anyone has been happy with their play for a few years) but trouble none the less.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

What first sign of trouble? We are averaging 7 wins a year over the last three years, with one winning season, and only 5 wins in our most recent. We've had signs of trouble since the first year of Joe G's return, admittedly not necessarily specific to the d-line (although I don't think anyone has been happy with their play for a few years) but trouble none the less.
I agree. Gibbs came in and completely broke down the championship team he inherited and hasn't been able to do anything with it since except win one playoff game (which is more than Cowboys and Giants combined).

Obviously Gibbs doesn't get a pass (nobody does), but he still has at least this season (maybe more) to prove he can get it done.

[MikeBass]

I agree. Gibbs came in and completely broke down the championship team he inherited and hasn't been able to do anything with it since except win one playoff game (which is more than Cowboys and Giants combined).

Obviously Gibbs doesn't get a pass (nobody does), but he still has at least this season (maybe more) to prove he can get it done.

My Gawd!! are we questioning Gibbs' , coaching, abilities now?

Were we this critical just one season ago when we were 10-6 or was whe anticipating a Superbowl?

[BIGSEF3]

My Gawd!! are we questioning Gibbs' , coaching, abilities now?

Were we this critical just one season ago when we were 10-6 or was whe anticipating a Superbowl?

gibbs is 22-28 since returning to the nfl. whatever he WAS nearly twenty years ago, what he IS now is not a hall of fame caliber coach. and you would be hardpressed to look at joe gibbs since his retuen and argue he is not a BAD coach. all positve comments about gibbs now are based solely on his moral character and past accomplishments.... not anything he has proven he can do now.

[SimplyZ]

gibbs is 22-28 since returning to the nfl. whatever he WAS nearly twenty years ago, what he IS now is not a hall of fame caliber coach. and you would be hardpressed to look at joe gibbs since his retuen and argue he is not a BAD coach. all positve comments about gibbs now are based solely on his moral character and past accomplishments.... not anything he has proven he can do now.
we did win a playoff game...might not count for much, but jeff fisher hasn't won a playoff game in a couple years, that doesnt mean hes a bad coach now

[BIGSEF3]

we did win a playoff game...might not count for much, but jeff fisher hasn't won a playoff game in a couple years, that doesnt mean hes a bad coach now
greg williams won a playoff game.... if you recall, that was the worst offensive performance in a playoff win in the history of the nfl.... joe gibbs has nothing to do with defense and our defense won that game and was responsible for for the five game winning streak to end the season.... IMO any success we have had in recent years is in spite of gibbs coaching on offense, not because of it.

i think gibbs may be done AS A COACH..... but ironically i think he has been a pretty good president and would love him in a GM role..... is the side of the business he seems most fond of nowadays anyways.

[coffdogg]

gibbs is 22-28 since returning to the nfl. whatever he WAS nearly twenty years ago, what he IS now is not a hall of fame caliber coach. and you would be hardpressed to look at joe gibbs since his retuen and argue he is not a BAD coach. all positve comments about gibbs now are based solely on his moral character and past accomplishments.... not anything he has proven he can do now.
As far as I am concerned having Gibbs with some semblance of hope is a hell of a lot better than the years with Norv(too nice)Marty(too hard)or Steve(college coach).I have been watching the Skins since 81 so I was spoiled early,but to me Mr. Gibbs stays in Washington as long as he DAMN WELL PLEASES!!!!Also if anyone remembers the ENTIRE time Gibbs was away we made the playoffs ONCE.In his 3 years we have made the playoffs and we have alot more talent in house than we did when he came to save us from the Spurrier debacle.Yes he does need to win but if we gave Turner 7 years,how about give the HOFer his 5 and stop complaining.

[shally]

As far as I am concerned having Gibbs with some semblance of hope is a hell of a lot better than the years with Norv(too nice)Marty(too hard)or Steve(college coach).I have been watching the Skins since 81 so I was spoiled early,but to me Mr. Gibbs stays in Washington as long as he DAMN WELL PLEASES!!!!Also if anyone remembers the ENTIRE time Gibbs was away we made the playoffs ONCE.In his 3 years we have made the playoffs and we have alot more talent in house than we did when he came to save us from the Spurrier debacle.Yes he does need to win but if we gave Turner 7 years,how about give the HOFer his 5 and stop complaining.

i think,if for the sake of argument, next year gibbs has his 3rd sub .500 season out of 4 he will have proved that the game has passed him by
and enough will be enough.. what's more, i think that even gibbs would likely be of that opinion and would save snyder the need to fire him..

i do not think it will happen. but as parcells has said, you are what your record says you are

[coffdogg]

greg williams won a playoff game.... if you recall, that was the worst offensive performance in a playoff win in the history of the nfl.... joe gibbs has nothing to do with defense and our defense won that game and was responsible for for the five game winning streak to end the season.... IMO any success we have had in recent years is in spite of gibbs coaching on offense, not because of it.

i think gibbs may be done AS A COACH..... but ironically i think he has been a pretty good president and would love him in a GM role..... is the side of the business he seems most fond of nowadays anyways.
Just for general info the skins were ranked 13th in points and 11th in yards in the NFL in '05 and the D was 9th for both.Now with Saunders in we were 20th points and 14th yards and D was 27 and 31.Granted we broke in a young QB and had injuries all over but seems to me the only thing Gibbs is guilty of is not trusting himself and giving away the O when all he needed to do was tweak a little.Also the D's we ran up against in the playoffs were pretty damn good in case anyone forgot.

[BIGSEF3]

As far as I am concerned having Gibbs with some semblance of hope is a hell of a lot better than the years with Norv(too nice)Marty(too hard)or Steve(college coach).I have been watching the Skins since 81 so I was spoiled early,but to me Mr. Gibbs stays in Washington as long as he DAMN WELL PLEASES!!!!Also if anyone remembers the ENTIRE time Gibbs was away we made the playoffs ONCE.In his 3 years we have made the playoffs and we have alot more talent in house than we did when he came to save us from the Spurrier debacle.Yes he does need to win but if we gave Turner 7 years,how about give the HOFer his 5 and stop complaining.
beleive i or not i agree with everything you said. this franchise has been horrible since gibbs left... but it hasnt really gotten better since he returned. take that miracle five game winning streak attributed mostly to the defense away and joe gibbs three year tenure here has been utterly horrible. that said, joe gibbs has earned the right to coach as long as he wants... just like brett favre has earned the right to play untile hes 60 if he wants.... but that doesnt mean joe gibbs is a good coach... or that his coaching is whats best for this team.

[MikeBass]

gibbs is 22-28 since returning to the nfl. whatever he WAS nearly twenty years ago, what he IS now is not a hall of fame caliber coach. and you would be hardpressed to look at joe gibbs since his retuen and argue he is not a BAD coach. all positve comments about gibbs now are based solely on his moral character and past accomplishments.... not anything he has proven he can do now.

With all, due, respect...you have to be out of your mind

Most of the games that we played last season was, very, competitive ones. Gibbs took over a team that was, very, unstable and he is doing his, usual, job in bulidng stability.

Hell, did you expect us to go to the Superbowl as soon as he inked his name on the contract?

I swear, from reading some of these forums, I think, that we have the most unloyal fans in football.

[MikeBass]

beleive i or not i agree with everything you said. this franchise has been horrible since gibbs left... but it hasnt really gotten better since he returned. take that miracle five game winning streak attributed mostly to the defense away and joe gibbs three year tenure here has been utterly horrible. that said, joe gibbs has earned the right to coach as long as he wants... just like brett favre has earned the right to play untile hes 60 if he wants.... but that doesnt mean joe gibbs is a good coach... or that his coaching is whats best for this team.

BY GAWD MAN!!! Gibbs is not out there trying to throw 50 yard passes. As long as he has the mental capacity to coach this team into a winning one why would his age matter?

[joethefan]

cj would make the offense rediculous,


and our defense horrible....we'd have to score 48 points a week....i'd say draft a de or dline asfter trading down and getting another first day pick and go corner....

[MikeBass]

i think,if for the sake of argument, next year gibbs has his 3rd sub .500 season out of 4 he will have proved that the game has passed him by
and enough will be enough.. what's more, i think that even gibbs would likely be of that opinion and would save snyder the need to fire him..

i do not think it will happen. but as parcells has said, you are what your record says you are

This too, is ridicuous. The coaches are inplace, when Gibbs tok over the offense this past season it looked like a different team. The defense did not tackle well and hadn't been since Terry Metcalf and Tony Dorsett was running through it but Gibbs always find ways to win games.

[dukeuch]

As far as I am concerned having Gibbs with some semblance of hope is a hell of a lot better than the years with Norv(too nice)Marty(too hard)or Steve(college coach).I have been watching the Skins since 81 so I was spoiled early,but to me Mr. Gibbs stays in Washington as long as he DAMN WELL PLEASES!!!!Also if anyone remembers the ENTIRE time Gibbs was away we made the playoffs ONCE.In his 3 years we have made the playoffs and we have alot more talent in house than we did when he came to save us from the Spurrier debacle.Yes he does need to win but if we gave Turner 7 years,how about give the HOFer his 5 and stop complaining.

I hate always coming off like I think Gibbs sucks. I was as psyched as anyone when Snyder hired him, but I also refuse to give him a pass based on what he had done 10 years earlier. At some point, a coach, player, or owner should be accountable for his record.

Now, Spurrier truely sucked, but if we have a lot more talent than when Spurrier was head coach, how do you explain that Gibbs won the same number of games last year, with better talent, as Spurrier in his last year? And while Turner had 7 years, he averaged 7 wins a year, same as Gibbs has since he came back.

And it has nothing to do with being a true fan. I've been a fan since before Lombardi was our coach. Back then I argued with friends that Larry Brown was better than OJ Simpson. I am simply tired of our team being systematically dysfunctional in one way or another since our current owner bought the team.

[smoak]

What first sign of trouble? We are averaging 7 wins a year over the last three years, with one winning season, and only 5 wins in our most recent. We've had signs of trouble since the first year of Joe G's return, admittedly not necessarily specific to the d-line (although I don't think anyone has been happy with their play for a few years) but trouble none the less.

That is complete BULL. In yearr one the roster wen through an overall. Was it a painful learning and growing experience? Sure, but a necessary one to see who was going to be here and who wasn't. Year two was improved. Year three (IMO) was the first sign of real trouble. Things were bad.

But if anyone expected instant success in year one, they are a fool and should be a fan of poker or tennis. Team sports take time to build and time to destroy. The franchise was simmering in about 12 or so years of misery and nobody was walking in and changing that day 1 with the talent depleted roster we had. Last year was horrendous, but I expect a better record this season. Maybe I am fooling myself... We'll see I suppose.