is this gibbs last year ?

[shally]

all this trade talk about trading for briggs or trading up for a possible shot at CJ makes me wonder if gibbs is loading up for a final shot at things this year.

clearly, picking up fletcher and smoot and adding mature o linemen like tucker/wade/fabini sure makes this look like one of those "future is now" campaigns.

with all the turmoil going on and with the added stress of a sick grandchild, it makes me wonder if this is gibbs' last hurrah one way or the other and joe wants to go out on top and is pushing as hard as he can...

we have mused about this every year and joe has promised repeatedly he would see the contract to completion.. still, i wonder if this is it ?

anyone see more in the trade scenarios that just apparent face value ?

[redskin_rich]

If the team stinks again this year, I think Gibbs will step down.

[shally]

If the team stinks again this year, I think Gibbs will step down.

without question.. but i am also thinking that if the team goes all the way, or very deep into the playoffs, he also steps down

i know he always wants to win and will do whatever it takes, but it just seems to have extra emphasis this off season to win "now"

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

If the team stinks again this year, I think Gibbs will step down.
I think it's the other way around, if the team stinks, Gibbs will stay.

[shally]

I think it's the other way around, if the team stinks, Gibbs will stay.

no.. he will move upstairs

[Emmanouel8]

I don't think this offseason is any different than any other, so if Gibbs leave it will be because he's failed in his GM role. I think the only way he completes his contract is if we make the playoffs. Anything less he and Williams are out, and another sucker regime will take over this Parker Brother board game.

The time for a new GM was at the end of last season, I'm afraid we are in for another long season.

[skinsfan36]

i agree although i think 08 will be his last yr he always says i have contract through 2008 and i will honor it

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

no.. he will move upstairs
I don't think so, I don't believe Gibbs will quit with such a failure. I just can't see it.

[RedskinsDave]

Not this crap again..... :sfight:

[FanFromArizona]

I don't think we have ever seen a "Future is Now" attitude from Gibbs before....I would be VERY SURPRISED for him to begin that now.

He has never been a limelight-seeking type of coach before....he looks out for the interest of the team before he looks for personal glorification.

Granted he is a believer in free agency first and draft later, but I still don't see him changing his attitude and sacrificing for the now. He'll do what is necessary for the good of the team, and will stick it out to see it through.

[shally]

Not this crap again..... :sfight:

i think it is a legitimate question to ask in view of some of the events that have gone on.

it does not call into question his ethics, or his wisdom, his character or his word

i would take your response as being in the NO column

[FanFromArizona]

all this trade talk about trading for briggs or trading up for a possible shot at CJ makes me wonder if gibbs is loading up for a final shot at things this year.

bolded for a reason. it's just that: TALK.


clearly, picking up fletcher and smoot and adding mature o linemen like tucker/wade/fabini sure makes this look like one of those "future is now" campaigns.

Does not lead credence to the "future is now". Signings like Adalius Thomas/Nate Clemens/etc would. Each of these signings were conservative and at positions of needs and fit in with our cap plans.


with all the turmoil going on and with the added stress of a sick grandchild, it makes me wonder if this is gibbs' last hurrah one way or the other and joe wants to go out on top and is pushing as hard as he can...

we have mused about this every year and joe has promised repeatedly he would see the contract to completion.. still, i wonder if this is it ?

anyone see more in the trade scenarios that just apparent face value ?

I would give this as the TOP and SOLE reason to Gibbs *POSSIBLY* leaving....it will not be for football reasons.

[RedskinsDave]

i think it is a legitimate question to ask in view of some of the events that have gone on.

it does not call into question his ethics, or his wisdom, his character or his word

i would take your response as being in the NO column

Nothing is different than any other year. Fletcher and Smoot were needed, not some great additions that put the team "over the top". Also NOTHING else has happened. Everything is speculation and I'd be willing to bet nothing does happen. Regardless, there is nothing that has happened that would guarantee this team an above .500 record much less a run at anything other than mediocrity.

[shally]

Nothing is different than any other year. Fletcher and Smoot were needed, not some great additions that put the team "over the top". Also NOTHING else has happened. Everything is speculation and I'd be willing to bet nothing does happen. Regardless, there is nothing that has happened that would guarantee this team an above .500 record much less a run at anything other than mediocrity.

your opinion is acknowledged and respected..

there are no guarantees for certain because no one can predict events such as injuries or bad breaks.

the question is whether this team is better than the one that finished 2006.
so far it is, IMHO.. but given how far this team needs to come to go from 5-11 to a playoff contender, who knows what else needs to be done or whether it can be done

i would find it too depressing to believe that we are in for another .500 season.. especially in view of the rapid turn around by a team like the saints.. if they can do it in one year, we should be able to as well

[redskin_rich]

Nothing is different than any other year. Fletcher and Smoot were needed, not some great additions that put the team "over the top". Also NOTHING else has happened. Everything is speculation and I'd be willing to bet nothing does happen. Regardless, there is nothing that has happened that would guarantee this team an above .500 record much less a run at anything other than mediocrity.
I don't doubt your belief in that but do you really think Gibbs thinks that?
I think he would quit now if he felt that way. He threatened to quit, after his one and only losing season, during the first stint. He was much younger then.

[RedskinsDave]

Making or talking about making upgrades is the status quo for Snyder. Nothing is different because Gibbs is the coach. Gibbs may or may not think the team is great but there's only so much they can do anyways. If a losing season will make Gibbs think of quitting he should have hired someone competent to fix things.

The Saints added a franchise QB and a rookie weapon on offense. We aren't in the same position to make that kind of turn around.

[urobm]

Its so hard to tell, Gibbs is a competitor, so if we suck its difficult for me to see him go out on a losing not. At the same time if we turn things around and start winning it might entice him to continue with his plan.

[shally]

Making or talking about making upgrades is the status quo for Snyder. Nothing is different because Gibbs is the coach. Gibbs may or may not think the team is great but there's only so much they can do anyways. If a losing season will make Gibbs think of quitting he should have hired someone competent to fix things.

The Saints added a franchise QB and a rookie weapon on offense. We aren't in the same position to make that kind of turn around.

hopefully campbell becomes a franchise qb this year.. with portis and betts we should have adequate running firepower.
our receivers should be at least as good as the saints.

the question will be our defense

[BIGSEF3]

all this trade talk about trading for briggs or trading up for a possible shot at CJ makes me wonder if gibbs is loading up for a final shot at things this year.

clearly, picking up fletcher and smoot and adding mature o linemen like tucker/wade/fabini sure makes this look like one of those "future is now" campaigns.

with all the turmoil going on and with the added stress of a sick grandchild, it makes me wonder if this is gibbs' last hurrah one way or the other and joe wants to go out on top and is pushing as hard as he can...

we have mused about this every year and joe has promised repeatedly he would see the contract to completion.. still, i wonder if this is it ?

anyone see more in the trade scenarios that just apparent face value ?

i give it 80 percent chance gibbs retires after this year no matter how the season goes.

[FanFromArizona]

hopefully campbell becomes a franchise qb this year.. with portis and betts we should have adequate running firepower.
our receivers should be at least as good as the saints.

the question will be our defense

sounds like the 2006 Saints to me.....it's just a question of how well the defense deficiencies can be covered up.

[shally]

sounds like the 2006 Saints to me.....it's just a question of how well the defense deficiencies can be covered up.

let us hope so.. in fairness, the saints d line was their strength on the defensive side of the ball.. and.. brees was already an accomplished qb

still, the template is there to be followed

[whistleandthumb]

Personally, I think here are the most likely of all the possible scenarios:

1. We stink this year. Cowher wants to coach again, Gibbs agrees it's time to try something else, and moves upstairs, while we unload about 10 million/year on a 5 year deal with Cowher.

2. We're average, but show promise... sorta like 2005. Maybe we make the playoffs or come real close. Gibbs stays that final year of his contract to take one last shot at making it happen.

3. We win it all. Gibbs retires from coaching and moves upstairs, while we unload about 10 million/year on a 5 year deal with Cowher.

[shally]

Personally, I think here are the most likely of all the possible scenarios:

1. We stink this year. Cowher wants to coach again, Gibbs agrees it's time to try something else, and moves upstairs, while we unload about 10 million/year on a 5 year deal with Cowher.

2. We're average, but show promise... sorta like 2005. Maybe we make the playoffs or come real close. Gibbs stays that final year of his contract to take one last shot at making it happen.

3. We win it all. Gibbs retires from coaching and moves upstairs, while we unload about 10 million/year on a 5 year deal with Cowher.

i will choose door #3....

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Personally, I think here are the most likely of all the possible scenarios:

1. We stink this year. Cowher wants to coach again, Gibbs agrees it's time to try something else, and moves upstairs, while we unload about 10 million/year on a 5 year deal with Cowher.

2. We're average, but show promise... sorta like 2005. Maybe we make the playoffs or come real close. Gibbs stays that final year of his contract to take one last shot at making it happen.

3. We win it all. Gibbs retires from coaching and moves upstairs, while we unload about 10 million/year on a 5 year deal with Cowher.
10 million/year for Cowher?? I really hope (for this and other reasons) Cowher doesn't get anywhere close to DC

[shally]

10 million/year for Cowher?? I really hope (for this and other reasons) Cowher doesn't get anywhere close to DC

it is coming.. when dockery gets a contract like his, expect that cowher will break the bank if and when he chooses to come back and coach

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Honestly, I don't really know what Gibbs has in mind..but if we somehow win the SB, I could see him stepping down...
However there are two questions that I think should be asked at some point...
1) If we are horrible once again this year, and Gibbs does NOT want to step down, should he be forced to?
2) When Gibbs steps down, what happens then? Will Danny find a way to coexist with a coach that was not his childhood hero, or will he go back to the pre-Gibbs mess?

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Honestly, I don't really know what Gibbs has in mind..but if we somehow win the SB, I could see him stepping down...
However there are two questions that I think should be asked at some point...
1) If we are horrible once again this year, and Gibbs does NOT want to step down, should he be forced to?
2) When Gibbs steps down, what happens then? Will Danny find a way to coexist with a coach that was not his childhood hero, or will he go back to the pre-Gibbs mess?

Definitely not! I think that could hurt the organization in every imaginable way, and in every corner of it. I also think that Gibbs would step down before he is forced to do it.

[DUCKIN_TACKLERS]

I think Gibbs is Serious when he says he has a 5 year contract...However I think that the Gibbs question will really all depend on Campbell. If JC can put together a year that looks like we can grow an offense through him then I think Gibbs will stay even longer. If JC burns and crashes this year and dosent show real positive signs and the team finishes below .500 with the D being a mess. Then I think Gibbs will say he is doing what is best for the team by moving into a consultant job for the Skins (essentially quitting on the quiet). Gibbs promised to turn the Skins around and if he dosent think he can do it in his last 2 years I think he will do what he thinks is best for the skins and fade away quietly.

So in short if the O comes around or the D returns to glory then I think no doubt he is back. If both sides of the ball struggle like last year then Gibbs will see that there isnt alot of light at the end of the tunnel and he will quit on the downlow.

[dj_stouty]

I think Gibbs is Serious when he says he has a 5 year contract...

See, I look at this as a 5-year committment to the team, not a 5-year contract to be the Head Coach.

If things don't work this year, Gibbs will be the first to admit things didn't go as planned and he will take a FO job for the 5th year. After that, I think he will have other responsiblities with the team, although those will be less time consuming so he can spend more time with his family.

I'll go on record as saying I would like to see Cowher as Gibbs' eventual replacement.

[The Skinsinator]

I'll go on record as saying I would like to see Cowher as Gibbs' eventual replacement.I would also. However the relationship with Andy Rooney and the overall infrastructure with him and the Steelers would be the exact opposite he would have in Washington. No gm, not building through the draft, excessive free agent spending. Getting Cowher and a real gm might be the best thing to happen to this franchise. Gibbs' dedication to the team will never be questioned whatever happens and I still have complete faith in his abilities as a head coach.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

See, I look at this as a 5-year committment to the team, not a 5-year contract to be the Head Coach.

If things don't work this year, Gibbs will be the first to admit things didn't go as planned and he will take a FO job for the 5th year. After that, I think he will have other responsiblities with the team, although those will be less time consuming so he can spend more time with his family.

I'll go on record as saying I would like to see Cowher as Gibbs' eventual replacement.
So basically he would become a sort of general manager. I'm not sure I like that kind of situation.

[CNYSkinFan]

Not this crap again..... :sfight:
my thoughts exactly....Look Gibbs has said he will serve his foull contract which is next season and the season after. The only way Gibbs will step down before is with a superbowl ring.

Until Gibbs decides what he wants to do and makes it public this is all idol speculation.

[Spence]

I don't know if Gibbs will step down after this season or not. But if the team fails to make the playoffs Gibbs should certainly be fired. He has not been a good coach since his return.

[CNYSkinFan]

See, I look at this as a 5-year committment to the team, not a 5-year contract to be the Head Coach.

If things don't work this year, Gibbs will be the first to admit things didn't go as planned and he will take a FO job for the 5th year. After that, I think he will have other responsiblities with the team, although those will be less time consuming so he can spend more time with his family.

I'll go on record as saying I would like to see Cowher as Gibbs' eventual replacement.
Gibbs has been clkear he will coach his entire 5 year contract. I may question Gibbs on playcalling and personnell moves, but he does not play word games when it comes to his commitment. If he says he is going to coach, he is going to coach. Barring a Superbowl win or a massive health issue he will be coach the next two years.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I don't know if Gibbs will step down after this season or not. But if the team fails to make the playoffs Gibbs should certainly be fired. He has not been a good coach since his return.
That's kind of what I was referring to in my previous post...

[The Skinsinator]

But if the team fails to make the playoffs Gibbs should certainly be fired.Snyder would be shot if that actually happened. He doesn't have the coojoons to do it even if it we warranted.

[CNYSkinFan]

I don't know if Gibbs will step down after this season or not. But if the team fails to make the playoffs Gibbs should certainly be fired. He has not been a good coach since his return.
fat chance of that Spence. Snyder could not fire Gibbs, even if we went 0-16. It just wont happen.

[redskinz#1fan]

I think it's the other way around, if the team stinks, Gibbs will stay.


My thoughts too!

[Spence]

If you have another look at my original post you'll see I wasn't writing about what will happen, but what should happen. Gibbs should be fired if the Redskins fail to make the playoffs this year. That's what should happen. Will Dan Snyder fail to fire Joe Gibbs if the Redskins fail to make the playoffs? Well, Snyder usually does the wrong thing, so the odds favor Gibbs' job security, regardless of the results.

[The Skinsinator]

If you have another look at my original post you'll see I wasn't writing about what will happen, but what should happen. Gibbs should be fired if the Redskins fail to make the playoffs this year. That's what should happen. Will Dan Snyder fail to fire Joe Gibbs if the Redskins fail to make the playoffs? Well, Snyder usually does the wrong thing, so the odds favor Gibbs' job security, regardless of the results.I just can't figure out why this franchise, including Gibbs, is persistently reluctant in getting a certified competent general manager and for the love of God FIRE Vinny Ceratto. We have everything else- filthy rich owner who loves this team, hall of fame super bowl winning coach, and the arguably the best fanbase in all of sports.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I just can't figure out why this franchise, including Gibbs, is persistently reluctant in getting a certified competent general manager and for the love of God FIRE Vinny Ceratto. We have everything else- filthy rich owner who loves this team, hall of fame super bowl winning coach, and the arguably the best fanbase in all of sports.
The reason why we don't fire Vinny and get a GM is because there isn't room for a GM in our current structure. Danny and Gibbs have all the power to decide..Vinny just says yes to whatever Danny says, and the rest of the time god knows what he does.
You're not gonna find a competent GM who is willing to work between Snyder and Gibbs.

[Spence]

I just can't figure out why this franchise, including Gibbs, is persistently reluctant in getting a certified competent general manager and for the love of God FIRE Vinny Ceratto. We have everything else- filthy rich owner who loves this team, hall of fame super bowl winning coach, and the arguably the best fanbase in all of sports.
The owner thinks he is a good general manager. The head coach thinks he is a good general manager. They're both wrong.

[Spence]

You're not gonna find a competent GM who is willing to work between Snyder and Gibbs.You might, but you'd have to overpay to get him. But first you'd have to slip him past the ego of Dan Snyder and the ego of Joe Gibbs. Not an easy thing to do.

[Ibleedburgundy]

I think Joe Gibbs will honor his five year contract barring any health related issues because that is what he said he would do. This is not a promise he made about player contracts, who's going to start, or who is a core Redskin, the run/pass ratio, this is a promise he made to the fans and I think he takes a sincere approach in that regard. Even if the team is not successful, I still want him to be our coach.

Comparisons to the 2006 Saints are interesting but we aren't going to have a tragedy that unites the city and the team. The Saints played out of their minds last year and I think that feeling of unity had a lot to do with it because I've seen it before in other sports. They weren't that good, they lost to us at home for crying out loud.

Having Bill Cowher replace Joe Gibbs would be great, but I think Cowher will have to wait two more seasons to get that opportunity, and he's going to be in demand so let's hope he doen't get seduced in 2008.

I don't see this offseason as any different than any other. If anything, we've been more conservative...unless the Briggs deal goes through in which case this would be a rather typical Snyder-era Redskins offseason.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

You might, but you'd have to overpay to get him. But first you'd have to slip him past the ego of Dan Snyder and the ego of Joe Gibbs. Not an easy thing to do.
Nope. Definitely not an easy thing to do. And I would be very interested in seeing what happens the first time Danny and Gibbs agree on something and the GM (who should be the one deciding) does not.

[redskinz#1fan]

Snyder would be shot if that actually happened. He doesn't have the coojoons to do it even if it we warranted.


I'm loading up right now, so I can act as quickly as I can if he were to do such a bone headed thing...

bulletproof vest...check!

extra clips...check!

[cmdlost29]

all this trade talk about trading for briggs or trading up for a possible shot at CJ makes me wonder if gibbs is loading up for a final shot at things this year.

clearly, picking up fletcher and smoot and adding mature o linemen like tucker/wade/fabini sure makes this look like one of those "future is now" campaigns.

99% of the time when I read your posts I agree with you and say nothing. I'm always lurking on this forum. However this is that one percent when I have to disagree.

I don't see signing Smoot as earth shattering. In fact it could well be a bust. We signed him based on his previous seasons here which were 2 years ago. Over the last two seasons he's been horrible, I hope he gets back to 2004 form but there is no guarentee that will happen. Smoot is clearly a gamble.

Fletcher signing makes much more sense to me. We've needed a player to replace Pierce since he left. This was a move out of necessity. The only thing that bothers me about this signing is he played for Williams in the past. And if the last two seasons are an indication Williams as a Defensive cordinator is slipping. This should be his make or break season.

I put Gibbs returning next season at 50-50, regardless of our record. Reason I think its that high has more to do with his joy with Nascar then anything. Gibbs seems happier in Nascar then coaching footaball, at least what I see on television. It's his choice and as long as he doesn't pull a Parcells next offseason and drag out his decision to return or not to return I will be ok with his departure if he so chooses. Nothing he's done this time around takes away the 4 super bowl appearances he gave us and as a fan I will always feel he is the greatest in my lifetime. Hail!

[Spence]

Coaching contracts are guaranteed -- unless the coach resigns or retires -- and Joe Gibbs earns a lot of money. That, more than anything else, is the biggest reason why Joe Gibbs is unlikely to resign after 2007, no matter what happens on the field.

[Spence]

Nope. Definitely not an easy thing to do. And I would be very interested in seeing what happens the first time Danny and Gibbs agree on something and the GM (who should be the one deciding) does not.The GM would lose and then he'd have to decide if the money he's earning is enough to keep him coming to Redskins Park every day.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

The GM would lose and then he'd have to decide if the money he's earning is enough to keep him coming to Redskins Park every day.
Exactly. And as soon as that happens, his role in our organization would be useless, even if he does decide to come to Redskins Park every day.

[gibbsisgod]

If the team stinks again this year, I think Gibbs will step down.


What defines stinks? Playing hard every game and only going 6-10 or 7-9, is that bad? What about 8-8?

[Spence]

Exactly. And as soon as that happens, his role in our organization would be useless, even if he does decide to come to Redskins Park every day.That's correct. He'd hold the title, but all real decisions would be made by Snyder/Gibbs.

[Spence]

What defines stinks? Playing hard every game and only going 6-10 or 7-9, is that bad? What about 8-8?Every scenario you just described, whether it meets anyone's definition of "stinks," should be enough to get a different coaching staff in here. It probably won't be enough, but it should.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

What defines stinks? Playing hard every game and only going 6-10 or 7-9, is that bad? What about 8-8?
Anything short of making the playoffs.

[PennSkinsFan]

Yeah, Gibbs II has not been a real suucess. BUT, the big thing is, doe sit matter who is brought in? If there are not changes made to the fornt office structure and decision making proceess and personnell within the front offic,e does it really matter who is the coach as long as the same type decisions are made?

[whistleandthumb]

10 million/year for Cowher?? I really hope (for this and other reasons) Cowher doesn't get anywhere close to DC
He's sure to get somewhere close to 8 million/year from any other team, meaning that if Dan got involved, that would surely escalate beyond the spending limits of anyone else... hence, 10 million/year.

[whistleandthumb]

I don't know if Gibbs will step down after this season or not. But if the team fails to make the playoffs Gibbs should certainly be fired. He has not been a good coach since his return.
Wow. I'm speechless.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Yeah, Gibbs II has not been a real suucess. BUT, the big thing is, doe sit matter who is brought in? If there are not changes made to the fornt office structure and decision making proceess and personnell within the front offic,e does it really matter who is the coach as long as the same type decisions are made?
From what we know so far (Danny pre-Gibbs and Danny in the Gibbs era), it can only get worse.

[PennSkinsFan]

Wow. I'm speechless.

Why? What has been produced?

[hail2skins]

I don't know if Gibbs will step down after this season or not. But if the team fails to make the playoffs Gibbs should certainly be fired. He has not been a good coach since his return.I adopt this as my position. I'll also add that he shouldn't be the only one to go. People above (if there are any) and below him should be gone as well.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I adopt this as my position. I'll also add that he shouldn't be the only one to go. People above (if there are any) and below him should be gone as well.
There is one for sure. Unfortunately he can't be fired.

[whistleandthumb]

Why? What has been produced?
Gibbs is God in my eyes. We have no franchise with Gibbs, and, for ME, that buys him whatever he wants. If he goes 0-16 next year, that sucks, but there's no way I would say "Fire Gibbs." To fire Joe Gibbs would be to spit on those 3 trophies sitting in the lobby of Redskins Park.

It doesn't matter what's been produced. It's Joe Gibbs. I don't care what he's done lately... he's Joe freakin' Gibbs.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

You folks may find this article interesting, which has some down sounding comments from Gibbs. The comments are probably a result of coming off a bad season, and I'm sure the pressure of this all important off season has to be wearing on him. I am personally not going to read too much into the comments, but they are the most recent comments directly from Gibbs.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/don_banks/03/28/owners.snaps/index.html

Gibbs was in an unusually glib mood on Wednesday. Asked about his decision to return for a fourth season in Washington, despite having two losing records so far in his return engagement with the Redskins, he reminded reporters of what his wife, Pat, had said when he first broached the idea of coaching again in early 2004:

"The first thing she said was, 'You're going to ruin your good name,'" Gibbs said. "The other day I said to her, 'Well, we're halfway there. We're on our way to getting that done.' ''

Gibbs is just 22-28 in his first 50 games after returning as the latest savior of Daniel Snyder's struggling team, with only 2005's 11-7 record and playoff berth registering as a highlight.

"I think this is where I'm supposed to be,'' Gibbs said regarding any retirement talk. "But when you get my age, everybody's running around [asking], 'Hey, are they going to prop him up for another year?' ''

[RedskinsDave]

Gibbs is God in my eyes. We have no franchise with Gibbs, and, for ME, that buys him whatever he wants. If he goes 0-16 next year, that sucks, but there's no way I would say "Fire Gibbs." To fire Joe Gibbs would be to spit on those 3 trophies sitting in the lobby of Redskins Park.

It doesn't matter what's been produced. It's Joe Gibbs. I don't care what he's done lately... he's Joe freakin' Gibbs.

WRONG! If we stink again, he has to be the first to go. He can't blame anyone else. He is the head coach and team president.

[hail2skins]

Gibbs is God in my eyes. We have no franchise with Gibbs, and, for ME, that buys him whatever he wants. If he goes 0-16 next year, that sucks, but there's no way I would say "Fire Gibbs." To fire Joe Gibbs would be to spit on those 3 trophies sitting in the lobby of Redskins Park.

It doesn't matter what's been produced. It's Joe Gibbs. I don't care what he's done lately... he's Joe freakin' Gibbs.Sorry whistle but that's the kind of loyalty that gets you in trouble.

[PennSkinsFan]

Gibbs is God in my eyes. We have no franchise with Gibbs, and, for ME, that buys him whatever he wants. If he goes 0-16 next year, that sucks, but there's no way I would say "Fire Gibbs." To fire Joe Gibbs would be to spit on those 3 trophies sitting in the lobby of Redskins Park.

It doesn't matter what's been produced. It's Joe Gibbs. I don't care what he's done lately... he's Joe freakin' Gibbs.

Disagree. Gibbs is not a God to me. I only have one God.

Besdies all that though, what Gibbs did in the 80s and early 90s will always be dear to my heart and Gibbs will always be a great coach to me, but pal, this is a new era, new times, and the Redskins have produced nothing. As a fan, if you willing to except losing, good for you, but sorry, I want my team to win, that is what being a fan is all about. I am not Gibbs blind.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I don't necessarily agree with Whistle, but I also feel better about the direction of the team during the last 3 years than any other time during Snyder's ownership. I know last year was a failure, but I still (for the most part) like our direction. Of course, I may be typing this because I don't think we have a losing season next year, and back to back bad seasons will probably change my mind.

[Spence]

I adopt this as my position. I'll also add that he shouldn't be the only one to go. People above (if there are any) and below him should be gone as well.Absolutely!

[RedskinsDave]

I don't necessarily agree with Whistle, but I also feel better about the direction of the team during the last 3 years than any other time during Snyder's ownership. I know last year was a failure, but I still (for the most part) like our direction. Of course, I may be typing this because I don't think we have a losing season next year, and back to back bad seasons will probably change my mind.

This was discussed last year and it still boggles my mind. What is god's name have they done to make anyone think things are any different now than they were in 2002? We have been on the exact same direction since Snyder bought the team. The only thing that has changed is who is wearing the headset on Sundays.

[Spence]

Gibbs is God in my eyes. We have no franchise with Gibbs, and, for ME, that buys him whatever he wants. If he goes 0-16 next year, that sucks, but there's no way I would say "Fire Gibbs." To fire Joe Gibbs would be to spit on those 3 trophies sitting in the lobby of Redskins Park.

It doesn't matter what's been produced. It's Joe Gibbs. I don't care what he's done lately... he's Joe freakin' Gibbs.
That is the single craziest thing I've ever seen written on these boards -- and that's really saying something. Gibbs is a man. He's human. He makes mistakes. Lately, he's been making a lot of mistakes. He has been regularly outcoached during these last three seasons.

Gibbs is God? Gibbs can do whatever he likes?

Whistle, you've just told everyone that you'd be a worse owner than Dan Snyder. And that's also really saying something.

[akhhorus]

I love Gibbs as much as anyone, but if we have another 5-11 season here(and isn't because of some sort of team bus crash or some crazed ramsey fan holding the team hostage), then Gibbs, Cerrato and everyone has to go. Snyder will have no choice but to hand over the franchise to someone like Ron Wolf or Pioli to run 100% his way. Snyder always showed himself to be adaptable as a businessman, and I think eventually he'll do that.

[PennSkinsFan]

This was discussed last year and it still boggles my mind. What is god's name have they done to make anyone think things are any different now than they were in 2002? We have been on the exact same direction since Snyder bought the team. The only thing that has changed is who is wearing the headset on Sundays.

Results certainly have not been different. Players are still leaving the team, not being paid, although we pay other teams players big money, players, long time players, still leave with extremely hard feelings, and we still, except one year of Gibbs II, hold up the cellar of the NFC east. Nothing has changed. BUT, i guess since it is Gibbs, losing is acceptable. Go figure.

[shally]

I love Gibbs as much as anyone, but if we have another 5-11 season here(and isn't because of some sort of team bus crash or some crazed ramsey fan holding the team hostage), then Gibbs, Cerrato and everyone has to go. Snyder will have no choice but to hand over the franchise to someone like Ron Wolf or Pioli to run 100% his way. Snyder always showed himself to be adaptable as a businessman, and I think eventually he'll do that.

i do not think it will come to that because i think that gibbs himself will pull the plug.. he is honest and caring, and despite the huge amount of money he gets, i do not think that is what drives him or brought him back for round 2 (unlike someone else that he is frequently compared to)

[hail2skins]

i do not think it will come to that because i think that gibbs himself with pull the plug.. he is honest and caring, and despite the huge amount of money he gets, i do not think that is what drives him or brought him back for round 2 (unlike someone else that he is frequently compared to)Well, it could come to that. But what we hear vs what actually happened could be different. It would come to us as Gibbs decided to step down but it really was him being fired.

[CNYSkinFan]

Yeah, Gibbs II has not been a real suucess. BUT, the big thing is, doe sit matter who is brought in? If there are not changes made to the fornt office structure and decision making proceess and personnell within the front offic,e does it really matter who is the coach as long as the same type decisions are made?
See I agree with this. I don't think Gibbs is a bad coach. He has made some questionable decisions but also some very good ones. I think Gibbs failure is not neccessarily proof that Giobbs lost it as a HC but more proof that not evden a HoF coach like Gibbs could produce results with the structure in place.

[Spence]

BUT, i guess since it is Gibbs, losing is acceptable. Go figure.
And the ironic thing is that this goes entirely against the lessons of the first Gibbs era. The lesson Gibbs taught us from 1981-1992 was that losing was absolutely unacceptable. He essentially fired two Super Bowl champion quarterbacks because he thought he had a better chance to win again with someone else. In both cases, he was correct. He fired two Super Bowl champion running backs because he thought he had a better chance to win again with someone else. In both cases, he was correct. The biggest lesson of the first Gibbs era was: Win or replace the guys who aren't winning -- no matter who they are.

Wouldn't it be a cruel irony if that lesson is discarded during Gibbs' second tenure?

[shally]

Well, it could come to that. But what we hear vs what actually happened could be different. It would come to us as Gibbs decided to step down but it really was him being fired.


you could certainly be correct about that.. although it would be very hard to keep that sort of thing quiet,even by mutual consent

[hail2skins]

See I agree with this. I don't think Gibbs is a bad coach. He has made some questionable decisions but also some very good ones. I think Gibbs failure is not neccessarily proof that Giobbs lost it as a HC but more proof that not evden a HoF coach like Gibbs could produce results with the structure in place.Good point. But like he says, he makes the decisions so he'll have to take the fall. He just needs to remember that when he starts falling, he needs to grab on to others so they'll fall with him.

[shally]

And the ironic thing is that this goes entirely against the lessons of the first Gibbs era. The lesson Gibbs taught us from 1981-1992 was that losing was absolutely unacceptable. He essentially fired two Super Bowl champion quarterbacks because he thought he had a better chance to win again with someone else. In both cases, he was correct. He fired two Super Bowl champion running backs because he thought he had a better chance to win again with someone else. In both cases, he was correct. The biggest lesson of the first Gibbs era was: Win or replace the guys who aren't winning -- no matter who they are.

Wouldn't it be a cruel irony if that lesson is discarded during Gibbs' second tenure?

other than qb, gibbs has been pretty aggressive about replacing people.
the big difference now is the effects that the cap and free agency have had concerning these moves.. you simply cannot afford to change out key players as easily now

[whistleandthumb]

That is the single craziest thing I've ever seen written on these boards -- and that's really saying something. Gibbs is a man. He's human. He makes mistakes. Lately, he's been making a lot of mistakes. He has been regularly outcoached during these last three seasons.

Gibbs is God? Gibbs can do whatever he likes?

Whistle, you've just told everyone that you'd be a worse owner than Dan Snyder. And that's also really saying something.
I appreciate that Spence. Feel free to delete that and any other post you disagree with, because I'm done with this whole thing.

I've never been more disappointed in Redskins fans that I am now reading this. And by saying that I mean it has NOTHING to do with the Gibbs discussion. What an absolute shame.

[cmdlost29]

A lot of people demanding Gibbs win now or else but let me ask you all this...

If Gibbs turns the offense around but the defense is still absolutely horrible, a real possibility in my eyes, and he fires Williams and his staff but wants to stay will you all call for his head too?

This is the year of Gibbs VS. Williams. I won't mind one bit if Williams was gone today, let alone next season. I will be pissed if because of Williams Gibbs is fired. Yes I know that Gibbs is the over all head guy in charge and that the defense is also his responsibility but I can easily see Gibb's loyality to Williams be his own downfall.

If we lose this season because of Defense I hope we get rid of Williams and his staff and keep Gibbs for one more year at least. What say you?

[SkinsfaninNJ]

This was discussed last year and it still boggles my mind. What is god's name have they done to make anyone think things are any different now than they were in 2002? We have been on the exact same direction since Snyder bought the team. The only thing that has changed is who is wearing the headset on Sundays.
I can't just dismiss what happened in 05. That was our best season under Snyder's ownership. I think the talent on the team has improved. Again, I type my comments from the view of an optomist in the sense that I expect a good season. Assume for a minute that we have a good season meaning win a game in the playoffs. Then that would be 2 out of the last three years winning a playoff game.

Now if none of that happens, then I agree it's time to move in a different direction.

[CNYSkinFan]

Good point. But like he says, he makes the decisions to he'll have to take the fall. He just needs to remember that when he starts falling, he needs to grab on to others so they'll fall with him.
If a change is made I agree with this. Take the sword of Damocles to the entire coaching and front office staff and start over. I see no one there I woould be willing to be HC.

[RedskinsDave]

I appreciate that Spence. Feel free to delete that and any other post you disagree with, because I'm done with this whole thing.

I've never been more disappointed in Redskins fans that I am now reading this. And by saying that I mean it has NOTHING to do with the Gibbs discussion. What an absolute shame.

Sorry for not putting the man on a pedastal and ignoring any faults.

[Spence]

other than qb, gibbs has been pretty aggressive about replacing people.No, I'm talking about replacing the person responsible for failure.

[Spence]

I appreciate that Spence. Feel free to delete that and any other post you disagree with, because I'm done with this whole thing.You don't understand my role here. I don't delete posts I disagree with, I argue against them. That's the purpose of a discussion board. You're perfectly free to write what you believe, but if you think you should be free of criticism, this probably isn't the sort of board you'll enjoy.

[smoak]

I trust my head coach and I am confident we willbe a good football team in the future.

[hail2skins]

I appreciate that Spence. Feel free to delete that and any other post you disagree with, because I'm done with this whole thing.

I've never been more disappointed in Redskins fans that I am now reading this. And by saying that I mean it has NOTHING to do with the Gibbs discussion. What an absolute shame.One of the first things Gibbs said when he returned was that what he had done in the past didn't mean anything now. If he feels that way, so should the rest of us. He's a head coach and should be held accountable for the performance of this team (not just offense) like the other coaches were.

[redskin_rich]

Everybody is accountable. One more bad season makes 3 out of 4 and nobody should accept that, nor should anybody in charge be spared. Even Snyder should fire himself from any involvement in personnel, hire a GM and let him hire the next coach.

[smoak]

Everybody is accountable. One more bad season makes 3 out of 4 and nobody should accept that, nor should anybody in charge be spared. Even Snyder should fire himself from any involvement in personnel, hire a GM and let him hire the next coach.

You have a better shot of being our next starting LT.

[CNYSkinFan]

One of the first things Gibbs said when he returned was that what he had done in the past didn't mean anything now. If he feels that way, so should the rest of us. He's a head coach and should be held accountable for the performance of this team (not just offense) like the other coaches were.
Your right ...but also wrong.

Of course what a coach has done in the past means something. It always has. It always will. Having loyalty to a coach, espescially one as accomplished as Gibbs, is only natural. To simply decalre that null and void is a little unrealistic don't you think?

The question in my mind is whether things would change with a change in HC, and I have come to the conclusion it would not. The only thing keeping Snyder from running the whole show is Gibbs. Gibbs player moves may not be great, espescially in keeping and grooming our own talent, but it is better then Snyder's.

A new HC most definitely would not be a Cowher who could be brought in and told to run the whole show. No it would be a Dave Campo clone and Snyder would be in charge of everything. We would most assuredly continue losing.

So I would rather Lose with Gibbs and have hope he can break through then lose without him and have no hope.

[smoak]

Your right ...but also wrong.

Of course what a coach has done in the past means something. It always has. It always will. Having loyalty to a coach, espescially one as accomplished as Gibbs, is only natural. To simply decalre that null and void is a little unrealistic don't you think?

The question in my mind is whether things would change with a change in HC, and I have come to the conclusion it would not. The only thing keeping Snyder from running the whole show is Gibbs. Gibbs player moves may not be great, espescially in keeping and grooming our own talent, but it is better then Snyder's.

A new HC most definitely would not be a Cowher who could be brought in and told to run the whole show. No it would be a Dave Campo clone and Snyder would be in charge of everything. We would most assuredly continue losing.

So I would rather Lose with Gibbs and have hope he can break through then lose without him and have no hope.

Amen! I don't thinkk Gibbs' moves have been as bad as some do, but I fear Snyder with no buffer. That is why I knew we'd suck when he fired Marty. We need the BUFFER!!!

Excellent post.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Your right ...but also wrong.

Of course what a coach has done in the past means something. It always has. It always will. Having loyalty to a coach, espescially one as accomplished as Gibbs, is only natural. To simply decalre that null and void is a little unrealistic don't you think?

The question in my mind is whether things would change with a change in HC, and I have come to the conclusion it would not. The only thing keeping Snyder from running the whole show is Gibbs. Gibbs player moves may not be great, espescially in keeping and grooming our own talent, but it is better then Snyder's.

A new HC most definitely would not be a Cowher who could be brought in and told to run the whole show. No it would be a Dave Campo clone and Snyder would be in charge of everything. We would most assuredly continue losing.

So I would rather Lose with Gibbs and have hope he can break through then lose without him and have no hope.
This is the thing that scares me more than anything else with firing Gibbs. Where do we go from there. We've been through the established coordinator (Turner), the high winning percentage old timer (Shott), the college hot shot (Spur) and now the HOF. We are running out of places to turn.

[hail2skins]

Your right ...but also wrong.

Of course what a coach has done in the past means something. It always has. It always will. Having loyalty to a coach, espescially one as accomplished as Gibbs, is only natural. To simply decalre that null and void is a little unrealistic don't you think?

The question in my mind is whether things would change with a change in HC, and I have come to the conclusion it would not. The only thing keeping Snyder from running the whole show is Gibbs. Gibbs player moves may not be great, espescially in keeping and grooming our own talent, but it is better then Snyder's.

A new HC most definitely would not be a Cowher who could be brought in and told to run the whole show. No it would be a Dave Campo clone and Snyder would be in charge of everything. We would most assuredly continue losing.

So I would rather Lose with Gibbs and have hope he can break through then lose without him and have no hope.What a coach did in the past does mean something. It means he did it. Things are different now than they were back then and he was away from it for awhile. His bust is already in Canton for what he did in the pass and he'll always be a HOF coach because of that.

Gibbs knows that you're measured by the number of games you win now, not how many you won back then. I agree with others who believe he'll be the one to pull the plug but I agree with Spence when he said if the team performs poorly again, he SHOULD BE FIRED.

As for the other comments you make, what we have been doing isn't working. The structure we have and how decisions are made isn't working. Snyder will one day have to turn this team over to someone who knows football and acquiring talent. He should have done that when he bought Gibbs back. He didn't and now we have this web of a structure in place that does more harm than good.

[PennSkinsFan]

A lot of people demanding Gibbs win now or else but let me ask you all this...

If Gibbs turns the offense around but the defense is still absolutely horrible, a real possibility in my eyes, and he fires Williams and his staff but wants to stay will you all call for his head too?

This is the year of Gibbs VS. Williams. I won't mind one bit if Williams was gone today, let alone next season. I will be pissed if because of Williams Gibbs is fired. Yes I know that Gibbs is the over all head guy in charge and that the defense is also his responsibility but I can easily see Gibb's loyality to Williams be his own downfall.

If we lose this season because of Defense I hope we get rid of Williams and his staff and keep Gibbs for one more year at least. What say you?

Absolutely. BUT, don't forget, Gibbs is the HEAD COACH period. He said it himself, he insists it, he preaches it, and he would have no other way, above and beyond all, he is in charge and he is accountable. That is teh Gibbs always has operated and operates now. That is the main cornerstone to who Joe Gibbs is, as a leader and a person.

[bergiemoore]

It's clear that Gibbs has not been as successful as anyone expected.

If this season tanks again, and Gibbs doesn't take drastic measures to try and correct it during the season, like Billick did last year when he fired his OC, then Gibbs needs to do the honorable thing and step down as the HC. (Personally I think Williams is at the top of the firing list)

There's also the question of whether he should play out his final year of his contract regardless of 2007's outcome. He can't go into 2008 w/o a contract extension, or a plan to hand the team over to a successor already on the staff, or else he risks being a lame duck. If he's been unsuccessful, then who would really want his successor?

Gibbs is also the president of the team, not just the HC. If he can't figure out that this team needs an honest to God reevaluation/restructing of its FO, then he's failing in his responsibilities as a President as well. If that means that he tells Danny to fire Vinny and hire a GM, and risks pissing off his boss, then so be it. Gibbs needs to make the hard decisions. That's why he's one of the highest paid HC/Presidents in the league.

Mediots aside, it is plain to anyone looking at our draft picks this year that we haven't been building a franchise, we've been trying to buy one. FA is not evil, and I'm not suggesting that this team do nothing but draft, but we need to take a more measured approach to FA. This organization hasn't been a winning organization in a long time, for a multitude of reasons (FO lunacy, coaching changes, crappy scouting, etc). If 2007 goes poorly for us, then Snyder will have to take a long hard look at this organization from the perspective of a CEO. He will need to make the hard decisions then. Judging from his record as a business man, he is very capable in this regard.

All that being said, I hope we win another ring, and Gibbs can retire, again.

[PennSkinsFan]

I appreciate that Spence. Feel free to delete that and any other post you disagree with, because I'm done with this whole thing.

I've never been more disappointed in Redskins fans that I am now reading this. And by saying that I mean it has NOTHING to do with the Gibbs discussion. What an absolute shame.

Dude, you need to grab a grip

[whistleandthumb]

You don't understand my role here. I don't delete posts I disagree with, I argue against them. That's the purpose of a discussion board. You're perfectly free to write what you believe, but if you think you should be free of criticism, this probably isn't the sort of board you'll enjoy.
No, you disrespect and act above everyone else. I always thought you had a line, Spence, particularly with people who've been here awhile, but this erases that misconception. How naive of me to think you did.

[PennSkinsFan]

No, you disrespect and act above everyone else. I always thought you had a line, Spence, particularly with people who've been here awhile, but this erases that misconception. How naive of me to think you did.

Whistle my man, i don't get it. What did Tom do? He disagrees with you and is stating why.

[RedskinsDave]

No, you disrespect and act above everyone else. I always thought you had a line, Spence, particularly with people who've been here awhile, but this erases that misconception. How naive of me to think you did.

His disagreed with you. Don't go "greensigood" on us. If I cried every time Tom slammed something I wrote in the Potomac forum, I would be all dried out.

[whistleandthumb]

Whistle my man, i don't get it. What did Tom do? He disagrees with you and is stating why.
I've never disrespected or made a disparaging remark about anyone in one of my posts, no matter how much I disagreed with what they said. I suppose to ask the same of others would be out of line.

It's over now, anyway, so everyone can move on, including me.

[whistleandthumb]

His disagreed with you. Don't go "greensigood" on us. If I cried every time Tom slammed something I wrote in the Potomac forum, I would be all dried out.
That's not making him look any better.

[RedskinsDave]

That's not making him look any better.

Why? Most of us do the exact same thing. If we see something we utterly disagree with, we comment. I am quite sure you have done the same. Why so sensitive about it now?

[James F. Quinn]

Snyder could not fire Gibbs, even if we went 0-16. It just wont happen.

Snyder is a hard-headed businessman. However, as a true fan he brought in Joe Gibbs thinking that his idol could bring back the glory days.

Now, after three years and a 21-27 record, that idol has feet of clay. I would not at all be surprised, if this team doesn't get above .500 this season, to see Danny bite the bullet, bring in a GM, and clean house, including JJG.

Dan may be sentimental, but even that has its limits. After that, I could see him selling off the team.

[redskinz#1fan]

on a side note... anybody want a sub, cause I'm going to the store!

Sounds like I need to get some liquor, so we can all have a drink! :D




Back to our regularly scheduled argument... I mean Gibbs discussion!

[bergiemoore]

Here's a sign that I think Gibbs might be learning from 2006's mistakes:
The Redskins' preference is to move back in the first round, but Gibbs conceded that with so many teams wanting to move down in the draft, it would likely be easier for Washington to move up. How the Redskins would manage that isn't clear. Washington has no second-, third- or fourth-round picks this year, and Gibbs said the Redskins are committed to keeping their 2008 draft choices intact.

"From what you hear, your best bargains this year will be in the second round,'' Gibbs said. "That's where a lot of the players are. It's almost as if once you get past all the hype of the first round, that's where all the guys that you want will be.''

LINK (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/don_banks/03/28/owners.snaps/index.html)

I don't understand how we will be able to move up unless we're thinking about unloading a player, but the talk about keeping our 2008 picks in tack makes me hopeful that this FO is finally getting its act together, and that the house cleaning rumor might be closer to the truth.

[redskinz#1fan]

Snyder is a hard-headed businessman. However, as a true fan he brought in Joe Gibbs thinking that his idol could bring back the glory days.

Now, after three years and a 21-27 record, that idol has feet of clay. I would not at all be surprised, if this team doesn't get above .500 this season, to see Danny bite the bullet, bring in a GM, and clean house, including JJG.

Dan may be sentimental, but even that has its limits. After that, I could see him selling off the team.


I don't see this happening anytime soon! Why would he sell off the most revenue generating team in the world??? He's too money hungry for that!!

[akhhorus]

I don't see this happening anytime soon! Why would he sell off the most revenue generating team in the world??? He's too money hungry for that!!


Unless someone ponies up 2 billion to Snyder, he won't sell the skins.

[Dept_of_Defense]

all this trade talk about trading for briggs or trading up for a possible shot at CJ makes me wonder if gibbs is loading up for a final shot at things this year.

clearly, picking up fletcher and smoot and adding mature o linemen like tucker/wade/fabini sure makes this look like one of those "future is now" campaigns.

with all the turmoil going on and with the added stress of a sick grandchild, it makes me wonder if this is gibbs' last hurrah one way or the other and joe wants to go out on top and is pushing as hard as he can...

we have mused about this every year and joe has promised repeatedly he would see the contract to completion.. still, i wonder if this is it ?

anyone see more in the trade scenarios that just apparent face value ?
This same discussion was brought up last year after we loaded up with Saunders, Randle El, Archuleta, Carter, Lloyd......I think every team has a "win now" mentality. I'm 100% sure that Gibbs will honor his contract untill 2008. He leads by example which is exactly why he won't leave before his contract expires.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Your right ...but also wrong.

Of course what a coach has done in the past means something. It always has. It always will. Having loyalty to a coach, espescially one as accomplished as Gibbs, is only natural. To simply decalre that null and void is a little unrealistic don't you think?

The question in my mind is whether things would change with a change in HC, and I have come to the conclusion it would not. The only thing keeping Snyder from running the whole show is Gibbs. Gibbs player moves may not be great, espescially in keeping and grooming our own talent, but it is better then Snyder's.

A new HC most definitely would not be a Cowher who could be brought in and told to run the whole show. No it would be a Dave Campo clone and Snyder would be in charge of everything. We would most assuredly continue losing.

So I would rather Lose with Gibbs and have hope he can break through then lose without him and have no hope.
So basically after the 2008 season we are in big trouble. (Which is, by the way, how I feel, and I completely agree with your post.)

[shally]

No, I'm talking about replacing the person responsible for failure.
sorry, i misunderstood.. and i agree with your above comment

[shally]

Here's a sign that I think Gibbs might be learning from 2006's mistakes:


LINK (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/don_banks/03/28/owners.snaps/index.html)

I don't understand how we will be able to move up unless we're thinking about unloading a player, but the talk about keeping our 2008 picks in tack makes me hopeful that this FO is finally getting its act together, and that the house cleaning rumor might be closer to the truth.

all well and good except we have no second rounder, because we traded it for rocky..

so saying something is fine, but you have to walk the walk also

[James F. Quinn]

Why would he sell off the most revenue generating team in the world??? He's too money hungry for that!!

Owning a sports franchise is NOT a way to make money if you are money hungry.

He didn't buy the team to make money. He can make more money in pure personal profit in other forms of business. The money he "makes," he puts back into the team. What he wanted was to return the Redskins to glory.

This is about his last chance at finding a way to do that. I would think Danny is a somewhat disillusioned man about now.

He might try to sell the team to Trump, who could make the FO into a reality-based TV show. "Vinnie, for the first time in TV history, it's unanimous. You're fired off the island!"

[shally]

This same discussion was brought up last year after we loaded up with Saunders, Randle El, Archuleta, Carter, Lloyd......I think every team has a "win now" mentality. I'm 100% sure that Gibbs will honor his contract untill 2008. He leads by example which is exactly why he won't leave before his contract expires.


that is a valid point, and one i did not consider.. however, going into last year there was a sense of optimism that this team was very close to being a superbowl contender..and why not, as a play here and there against seattle and it well might have been.

in retrospect, it was the success that was the aberration and not the failure and we crashed hard last year.

what made me think along these lines inthe first place is the weight of 2 out of 3 terrible years working on someone like gibbs. then looking at the moves made so far, it drew me to the POSSIBLE conclusion that maybe some more was afoot here.. ansd that is why i threw it out for discussion.. to see if others felt a similar vibe.

from the intensity of a lot of the remarks, it appears there are strong feeling both ways.. if nothing else, folks have gotten a chance to vent when things are slow and i find the arguments very interesting to read both ways

[Dolla Bill]

I don't think Snyder will hire a Dave Campo clone. History shows that he goes for either the hot guy at the moment, or someone he clearly craves. I wouldn't rule out Cowher at all. he will be the number one guy for coaching next year. Danny has the dollars to lure him to the sidelines again.

[shally]

I don't think Snyder will hire a Dave Campo clone. History shows that he goes for either the hot guy at the moment, or someone he clearly craves. I wouldn't rule out Cowher at all. he will be the number one guy for coaching next year. Danny has the dollars to lure him to the sidelines again.


you made diet coke run out of my nose with the campo remark...

[Spence]

Snyder would get a mint for the team if he sold in the next year or two, but he'd get even more if he held on to the team for many more years. The value appreciation of an NFL franchise is incredible.

It's more than that, though. Owning an NFL franchise allows you to be a bigshot in the local community. Snyder loves that far too much to give it up.

[Spence]

By the way, I love Bill Cowher. He'd be a great hire. Would he work for a guy like Snyder? Only if Snyder made him an offer so gigantic that Cowher couldn't refuse. Or if Snyder made him merely a good offer and combined it with a clause in his contract forcing Snyder to stay out of personnel decisions.

[redskinz#1fan]

Owning a sports franchise is NOT a way to make money if you are money hungry.

He didn't buy the team to make money. He can make more money in pure personal profit in other forms of business. The money he "makes," he puts back into the team. What he wanted was to return the Redskins to glory.

This is about his last chance at finding a way to do that. I would think Danny is a somewhat disillusioned man about now.

He might try to sell the team to Trump, who could make the FO into a reality-based TV show. "Vinnie, for the first time in TV history, it's unanimous. You're fired off the island!"


I completely disagree with the bold comments above. He did indeed buy this team to make money. Now he may of not thought he was buying a cash cow, but he did indeed buy it to make a profit. No smart money man like Synder buys anything, not unless he can turn a profit off of it. I have many years of experience when it comes to this. By the way he doesn't put all of his money back into the team, I can assure you that!

Now he probably did want to return the Skins to the Glory days (because he is a fan), but he definitely went into this to make money as well.

He is definitely making money...He bought the skins at like $880 million (something like that), and they are now valued at somewhere around 1.4 billion! That's money, and they are constantly going up! Just imagine the money he will cash in on, if he brings a winning product back to DC.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Snyder would get a mint for the team if he sold in the next year or two, but he'd get even more if he held on to the team for many more years. The value appreciation of an NFL franchise is incredible.

It's more than that, though. Owning an NFL franchise allows you to be a bigshot in the local community. Snyder loves that far too much to give it up.
Absolutely. He owns his childhood dream. He doesn't need the money, and he seems to be fine being able to afford the debt of bonuses, expenses, coachs' salaries, etc.

He owns the freaking Redskins. How cool is that.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

By the way, I love Bill Cowher. He'd be a great hire. Would he work for a guy like Snyder? Only if Snyder made him an offer so gigantic that Cowher couldn't refuse. Or if Snyder made him merely a good offer and combined it with a clause in his contract forcing Snyder to stay out of personnel decisions.
If Snyder can continue to be the owner he is now, I think any coach could or would want to work for him. Let's face it, he has been a model owner for Gibbs.

[Wild Bore]

Let me start this post by saying I am still a big time Joe Gibbs fan. Nothing in my following statements should lead anyone think otherwise.

I think Gibbs' failing this year related more to his trying to position the team for the future than anything else. He thought (wrongly) that he could back off to a more CEO role and let his two assistants run the show. Remember all those discussions? The thought process was good. He left us last time without any viable successors as it turns out. He didn't want to do that again. His goal in his second tenure has always been to "rescue" the organization and make success sustainable. I think the offense was impotent when Gibbs backed off this year but then really took off late in the year as he re-inserted himself. the late season offensive success was either that or the fact that Saunders philosophies finally took hold. I believe it was the former.

That said, I have always believed Gibbs is a GREAT coach, but a not so great a GM. I know others believe that a great GM could not exist between Snyder and Gibbs. I do not believe that. (I think it would have been even more difficult to be between Gibbs and the Squire, but Bobby Beathard did it.)

Speaking of Beathard, much of the success in Gibbs I was due as much to Beathard as to Gibbs. The Redskins began their rise to dominance with his arrival, and began their decline with his departure. But there is even more evidence to Beathard's greatness than that. Consider:

1. Beathard started his GM career in Baltimore in the mid to late 60's (he was a personnel man without the title.) He helped build a team which went to Super Bowls in 1969 and 1971. Baltimore declines after he leaves.
2. He follows Don Shula to expansion Miami as Director of Player Personnel (ie GM w/o title). He proceeded to build an expansion team (a much harder task pre Free Agency) into an NFL powerhouse, going to 3 straight SBs from 1972 through 1974. However, Don Shula gets the credit for my points 1&2.
3. Miami is decimated with the WFL defections of their key players in the mid 70s, but Beathard builds them back up (before he leaves in 1978) to become Super Bowl contenders again in the early 80s.
4. Beathard comes to the Redskins, a team that had grown very old under Allen and proceeds to build one of the great NFL dynasties over the next decade or so, going to 4 Super Bowls and 5 NFC Championship games. Beathard leaves and the Redskins decline.
5. Beathard goes to a woeful San Diego team that had never reached the Super Bowl and quickly leads them there.

Coincidence? I don’t think so. I vote with some of the others that what ails this team is a competent GM, not coach. If you have been through all the coaches we have been through with none being successful, the problem is elsewhere. Where I disagree with others is that a good GM can exist between Snyder and Gibbs.

[bergiemoore]

I think Gibbs' failing this year related more to his trying to position the team for the future than anything else. He thought (wrongly) that he could back off to a more CEO role and let his two assistants run the show. [...] I think the offense was impotent when Gibbs backed off this year but then really took off late in the year as he re-inserted himself. the late season offensive success was either that or the fact that Saunders philosophies finally took hold. I believe it was the former.


I agree with what you're saying about Gibbs wanting to take a more CEO approach, but disagree with the assessment about why our offense showed signs of life, late last year. I think that was directly related to bringing in JC. Bringing in JC did two things:

1) Forced the OC to run the ball more, to allow JC to get acclimated.
2) Forced defenses to back up from the line of scrimmage, providing room for our running attack. (His first pass was a long bomb that SHOULD have been caught by Lloyd for a touchdown. That sends defenses a very clear message.)

I feel like bringing in Saunders was something this organization did to provide a spark on offense for the LONG TERM. Changing offensive schemes is not a quick fix plan. It is planning for the future. I think Gibbs realized that he wasn't having the success needed to compete, and decided Saunders could be a permanent fixture here, on offense.


[...]I vote with some of the others that what ails this team is a competent GM, not coach. If you have been through all the coaches we have been through with none being successful, the problem is elsewhere. Where I disagree with others is that a good GM can exist between Snyder and Gibbs.

I agree with this sentiment 100%. Vinny, on the other hand, must go.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

By the way, I love Bill Cowher. He'd be a great hire. Would he work for a guy like Snyder? Only if Snyder made him an offer so gigantic that Cowher couldn't refuse. Or if Snyder made him merely a good offer and combined it with a clause in his contract forcing Snyder to stay out of personnel decisions.
Why everyone thinks Cowher is so fabulous? Other than SB XL that has some asterisks besides it, how is he great? For those who love Cowher, relax... I'm not saying he's a bad coach, but I don't understand what makes him GREAT.

[skins111111]

barring serious health problems Gibbs will honor his 5 year contract

[LATrueRedskin]

In my mind, as soon as Gibbs hired Al Saunders to run the offense, his presence is not as important as it was before. Al runs the offense, Gregg runs the defense. Sad for me, but true. I was very young when Gibbs was around the first time, so most of the memories I have of him and the mighty Redskins came from video tapes. This is the Gibbs I know. Mediocrity, losing seasons, and a lack of a solid program. IMO, if we're just as bad as last year (which I don't think we will be), Gibbs may step down. But I fully expect him to fulfill his 5-year committment to the Redskins, and not be on board for anything after that.

[ultimateskinsfan]

Gibbs will see this to the end.... Period! He's always preached character over anything else, why would he leave without honoring his contract? It doesn't jive at all. Whether he will be able to win another superbowl....now that is the question.... But he will honor his contract and who knows after that.

[urobm]

I don't know if Gibbs will step down after this season or not. But if the team fails to make the playoffs Gibbs should certainly be fired. He has not been a good coach since his return.


FIRE GIBBS? WHAT? I couldnt ever see that happening, he will step down when he is ready too.

[redskin_rich]

In my mind, as soon as Gibbs hired Al Saunders to run the offense, his presence is not as important as it was before. Al runs the offense, Gregg runs the defense. Sad for me, but true. I was very young when Gibbs was around the first time, so most of the memories I have of him and the mighty Redskins came from video tapes. This is the Gibbs I know. Mediocrity, losing seasons, and a lack of a solid program. IMO, if we're just as bad as last year (which I don't think we will be), Gibbs may step down. But I fully expect him to fulfill his 5-year committment to the Redskins, and not be on board for anything after that.
Happy Birthday man!
Hopefully, before Gibbs is done with this 2nd stint here, he will give you younger folks something good to remember like those of us that enjoyed the first Gibbs era do.
For me personally, even if he doesn't have success here again, it won't change how I remember Gibbs. Nor will I regret that he returned. I was as down in the dumps as I have ever been, as a Skins fan, at the end of the Spurrier debacle. Trying to find solace in the possible hiring of Denny Green or Jim Fassel as our next coach..ugh.
Man, when the news broke on Gibbs returning, it was like being reborn as a fan. I was so excited, I was speechless and that's saying something for me.
Anyhow, I'm a fan for life and as long as Gibbs is coach, I'll find a way to be optimistic.

[LATrueRedskin]

Happy Birthday man!
Hopefully, before Gibbs is done with this 2nd stint here, he will give you younger folks something good to remember like those of us that enjoyed the first Gibbs era do.
For me personally, even if he doesn't have success here again, it won't change how I remember Gibbs. Nor will I regret that he returned. I was as down in the dumps as I have ever been, as a Skins fan, at the end of the Spurrier debacle. Trying to find solace in the possible hiring of Denny Green or Jim Fassel as our next coach..ugh.
Man, when the news broke on Gibbs returning, it was like being reborn as a fan. I was so excited, I was speechless and that's saying something for me.
Anyhow, I'm a fan for life and as long as Gibbs is coach, I'll find a way to be optimistic.

Thanks bro, and I'm with you all the way. I've been glad to experience Gibbs' return so far, and I have very high hopes for the rest of his 2 remaining years. I'm looking forward to this season as much as every one before it. For us younger Skins fans, we're painfully used to bad seasons and constant change in the Skins organization. We just put it behind us, and move forward. It feels pretty good to have the same head coach and assistants for a number of years.

[X-Factor13]

I don't think so, I don't believe Gibbs will quit with such a failure. I just can't see it.



i agree. quitting and joe gibbs are two things that just don't mix.

[James F. Quinn]

i agree. quitting and joe gibbs are two things that just don't mix.

But what if Joe came to the conclusion/realization that (a) he couldn't get it done, and (b) His presence here delayed a move to another coach/GM who might be able to get it done. As an Honorable man, he might think that resigning was the best for the Redskins.

[gibbsisgod]

Anything short of making the playoffs.


well.... that's one way to look at it.

7-9 or 8-8 is the right path

[RedskinsDave]

well.... that's one way to look at it.

7-9 or 8-8 is the right path

No it's not. With all that money spent and talent on the team, they should make the playoffs or hire someone else to fix it.

[gibbsisgod]

No it's not. With all that money spent and talent on the team, they should make the playoffs or hire someone else to fix it.




Money doesn't fix all problems and i feel gibbs is trying to build a solid team that can grow when he leaves.

If J. Campbell comes around sooner than I thougt, it's all gravy. I just think it will take at least another season for him to get ready and lead our team to victory.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Money doesn't fix all problems and i feel gibbs is trying to build a solid team that can grow when he leaves.

If J. Campbell comes around sooner than I thougt, it's all gravy. I just think it will take at least another season for him to get ready and lead our team to victory.
If by that you mean yet another losing season, honestly I don't know how anybody could justify 3 losing seasons in 4 years..

[gibbsisgod]

If by that you mean yet another losing season, honestly I don't know how anybody could justify 3 losing seasons in 4 years..


A new qb...he's had a new playbook every year since college except for this year.
Give him some time

[SpicyMcHaggis]

A new qb...he's had a new playbook every year since college except for this year.
Give him some time
This franchise has had 15 years of time. It's time to start producing results. If the whole team does pretty well and JC has his "rookie" moments, I guess I could live with that, but anything less and something must be done.

[TonyStewart]

No it's not. With all that money spent and talent on the team, they should make the playoffs or hire someone else to fix it.

C'mon Dave, you know money does not fix everything and if you are only in it to get to playoffs then thats a whole other story. But I do know what you are saying but you know it wasnt a quick fix job here in DC.

I love that Snyder puts his heart into building this team and I think I would run the Skins pretty darn close to how he has done it so far.
I think this thread is a very silly one b/c the only way Gibbs would not be the Head Coach all of his 5 years is if he felt someone could do a better job then him but not make drastic, step-back changes. He will most definately stay the President so either way he will be here in some capacity no matter what. I may be getting ahead of myself but I would like to see him stay after the 5 years run out(prolly will have an extension well before). I feel pretty confident in the improvements we made so far this offseason and realize we are not done. When August comes around, we will be sitting pretty to make a strong run.

HAIL!!!

[gibbsisgod]

This franchise has had 15 years of time. It's time to start producing results. If the whole team does pretty well and JC has his "rookie" moments, I guess I could live with that, but anything less and something must be done.


agree..... if the d stays the same path as last year. changes need to be made

[skinfanjon]

agree..... if the d stays the same path as last year. changes need to be made

Agree, but since when does Gibbs know anything about defense? I would think if the D stinks again that GW should be the one to get the walking papers, no JG.

Its amazing how quickly we forget that this time last year we were almost unanimous in thinking "Super Bowl". Is it so absurd to think this team, virtually the same as last year with some minor upgrades, playing a MUCH easier schedule, has enough to compete for the playoffs? If the defense can only climb back to medicority, I think it should be enough to fight for the wild card spot. Not bad for JC's second season, which would allow another offseason in efforts to revamp the D. One that would hopefully offer a full aresenal of draft picks.

If you ask me, this franchise is not so bad off at the moment. I refuse to count the previous Turner/Schott/Spurrier admins against Gibbs...the clock started over when he took control and we have won a playoff game in tha time period. The talent level of the team is leaps and bounds from the level before his arrival and most importantly, he found us a very pomising QB of the future. Shouldn't that count for something?

I am not blinded by Gibbs legacy or anything of the sort, I just fail to see why his departure would help move this franchise forward. We need to build with what we have, starting this season. I ruly believe this team can rebound this season and set itself up for a strong run in 08, led by Gibbs.

[gibbsisgod]

Agree, but since when does Gibbs know anything about defense? I would think if the D stinks again that GW should be the one to get the walking papers, no JG.

Its amazing how quickly we forget that this time last year we were almost unanimous in thinking "Super Bowl". Is it so absurd to think this team, virtually the same as last year with some minor upgrades, playing a MUCH easier schedule, has enough to compete for the playoffs? If the defense can only climb back to medicority, I think it should be enough to fight for the wild card spot. Not bad for JC's second season, which would allow another offseason in efforts to revamp the D. One that would hopefully offer a full aresenal of draft picks.

If you ask me, this franchise is not so bad off at the moment. I refuse to count the previous Turner/Schott/Spurrier admins against Gibbs...the clock started over when he took control and we have won a playoff game in tha time period. The talent level of the team is leaps and bounds from the level before his arrival and most importantly, he found us a very pomising QB of the future. Shouldn't that count for something?

I am not blinded by Gibbs legacy or anything of the sort, I just fail to see why his departure would help move this franchise forward. We need to build with what we have, starting this season. I ruly believe this team can rebound this season and set itself up for a strong run in 08, led by Gibbs.


Sorry, I should have been more clear about the defense. GW was what i was talking about not joe.

My bad

[garedskin]

Gibbs has said soooooooooooo many times that he signed a 5 year deal and will honor it.Only Snyder or his health could stop that.So enough already about the resigning after every single season since he came back.It is getting very old reading every Nostradamus's prediction of doom.Just enjoy the longest tenured coach in Redskin and Snyders hisory.:Peace:

[James F. Quinn]

If Joe Gibbs came to the conclusion that he simply wasn't doing the job and didn't know how to change that, he'd be putting his resignation on Danny's desk within minutes. He is an honorable man.

[skins111111]

serious illness or death will be the only things to keep Gibbs from HONORing his contract...............by the way we are going 13-3 this season

[chicago_skinz_fan]

The only thing that I can think of that will help this team out in the future is getting a GM, something that we are sorely missing. Gibbs has done a great job, we have talent on both sides of the ball, and Snyder has allocated the funds and provided the best coaching staff in the league, we just need to find the chemestry now. One year to iron out the kinks, and now we should be poised to do something this season...

If you ask me things are really looking up this season; especially with a depleated NY Gians (no Tiki) and Dallas (no Parcells). I think Phily might be trouble though...

[hail2skins]

Gibbs has said soooooooooooo many times that he signed a 5 year deal and will honor it.Only Snyder or his health could stop that.So enough already about the resigning after every single season since he came back.It is getting very old reading every Nostradamus's prediction of doom.Just enjoy the longest tenured coach in Redskin and Snyders hisory.:Peace:Maybe you should have just read this thread and not responded because now you have resurrected it. So enjoy readiing it.

[firehawk157]

The only thing that I can think of that will help this team out in the future is getting a GM, something that we are sorely missing. Gibbs has done a great job, we have talent on both sides of the ball, and Snyder has allocated the funds and provided the best coaching staff in the league, we just need to find the chemestry now. One year to iron out the kinks, and now we should be poised to do something this season...

If you ask me things are really looking up this season; especially with a depleated NY Gians (no Tiki) and Dallas (no Parcells). I think Phily might be trouble though...

Dallas won't be a push-over, but everyone I know on Brokeback is thinking that they will immediately be better. Like, for some reason, there will be no adjusting period. New head coach, new defensive scheme, new offensive coordinator and they'll just click like that?
But NY is in a whole lot of trouble. No feature back, no left side of the line, Eli getting lots of pressure on top of his most wonderful decision-making, Shockey and Burress getting ready to tear Eli apart, mediocre LBs and no secondary. And we thought our skins were in trouble...

[smoak]

This franchise has had 15 years of time. It's time to start producing results. If the whole team does pretty well and JC has his "rookie" moments, I guess I could live with that, but anything less and something must be done.

Spicy, that makes no sense to me? So you are basically lumping Gibbs in with Spurrier and Norv? How is that fair? Gibbs has had three overall frustrating seasons, but any fool can go position by position and see where we are getting better.... Unless you want to trade Portis for Trung Candidate. :D The Redskins were a complete disaster that had to be rebuilt from the ground up and I really think we've done a good job. The proof will really be in the pudding this season b/c if the same people/units struggle, then heads should roll. Otherwise, this team has no excuse not to contend.

I just think everyone is judging Gibbs based on decisions and play of the past regimes and that isn't fair. Look at the roster turnover. Let me see if there are even 10 starters from 2003 or earlier:

Samuels
Jansen
Thomas
Sellers? - I don't think he started over Bryan Johnson?

Wow, thats it off the top of my head. Three. Maybe you can count Smoot... but I don't b/c he had to be replaced b/c he bolted for the GREENer pastures of Minnesota. Gibbs has made a bunch of moves that didn't work in hindsight, but Portis, Moss, Taylor, Cooley, Griff, Springs, Marcus, Carter, Rabach, and almost the entire roster were brought in as part of the transition. The pieces are no in place, and I think Gibbs has a legit shot in the next two years... And if we fail and it is the coach that is not living up to expectations, I think he'd be the first to admit it and step aside. But I have to tell you that if we went to the playoffs every other year or every three years, I'd be thrilled as long as we got the ring at least every 10-15 years. Very few teams can keep with that pace... I think the Pats striking gold with their team (Brady) has spoiled fans into thinking that winning is easy, but it isn't. We're putting in the work now and we'll see if it pays dividends in the next two years... We can't afford another season like 2006 though. That was awful.

[dukeuch]

The talent level of the team is leaps and bounds from the level before his arrival and most importantly, he found us a very pomising QB of the future. Shouldn't that count for something?



Not that you are the first to make this point, but I have always had a problem with this statement. If the Redskins are leaps and bounds better talent-wise now than before Gibbs took over, how do you explain the identical 5 wins the season before he took over and this past season?

[smoak]

Not that you are the first to make this point, but I have always had a problem with this statement. If the Redskins are leaps and bounds better talent-wise now than before Gibbs took over, how do you explain the identical 5 wins the season before he took over and this past season?

Did you see the putrid "defense" last season? That is the main reason why we were 5-10. If it happens again, changes will need to be made, but the talent is there.

[dukeuch]

Did you see the putrid "defense" last season? That is the main reason why we were 5-10. If it happens again, changes will need to be made, but the talent is there.

If our defense was so putrid (and I agree it was) than how can our talent be leaps and bounds better than the talent before Gibbs came back? Either the talent is not better, our coaching is worse, or it was just bad luck. What do you think is the reason is that our record in Gibbs' most recent season was the same as the season before he took over?

[garedskin]

Maybe you should have just read this thread and not responded because now you have resurrected it. So enjoy readiing it.


Sorry pal I did not start this thread.I was poster #143 to this particular thread so I did not resurrect a thing.So I think you need to go call out the right culprit.:Peace:

[smoak]

If our defense was so putrid (and I agree it was) than how can our talent be leaps and bounds better than the talent before Gibbs came back? Either the talent is not better, our coaching is worse, or it was just bad luck. What do you think is the reason is that our record in Gibbs' most recent season was the same as the season before he took over?

Well there is probably too much in here to cover everything, but lets talk about what went wrong with the D first and see if we agree. For me it is tough to pinpoint one or even a few things wrong with the '06 D.... It was a perfect storm of garbage IMO.

I'll start with the coaching. The player packages on the field were WRONG from day one. Holdman showed in 2005 that he no longer belongs on a football field. Sure in the right scheme he could be a nice role player maybe, but in this system he isn't/wasn't an adequate backup. And that issue goes all the way back to '05 when guys like Tatum Bell were looking like LT against our 'defense'. With the acquisition of Arch, Taylor had to become more "centerfield" coverage safety. Instead we still see Taylor supporting the run and Arch gettting beat deep. There was minimal rotation on the D-line.

Another big issue is that I think players bought the preseason hype which I put on the coaching staff. The only thing that will put a team over the top is hard work. No free agent or rookie or new coach is going to do it. The biggest mistake coach Gibbs has made IMO is treating these players like the mature, dedicated players of his old team. GW should have slaughtered this team in practice until people didn't have the energy to run their mouth off to the media.

The playcalling I felt was better at times than 2005 as there was less of that stupid "here comes my blitz" over and over and over.... But it still crept into the mix.

Injuries were a factor. This team simply can't win without Griffin in the lineup (hence why I was in favor of drafting Branch). Big Joe couldn't stay healthy. Springs couldn't stay healthy. MW and Marshall played hurt. It isn't an excuse, but still it was part of the issue (IMO).

Bottom line is that the best talent doesn't win in the NFL. It takes a collection of talent, hardwork, luck, study, etc. I know it sounds cliche, but I believe it. Our team is close IMO and they have the talent to win... They need a catalyst to bring it all together and take that next step, but I really believe in what we are doing wholeheartedly.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Spicy, that makes no sense to me? So you are basically lumping Gibbs in with Spurrier and Norv? How is that fair? Gibbs has had three overall frustrating seasons, but any fool can go position by position and see where we are getting better.... Unless you want to trade Portis for Trung Candidate. :D The Redskins were a complete disaster that had to be rebuilt from the ground up and I really think we've done a good job. The proof will really be in the pudding this season b/c if the same people/units struggle, then heads should roll. Otherwise, this team has no excuse not to contend.
That's exactly what I'm saying..this team is a whole lot better than those teams, so it should be producing results. If we have another 10 loss season, I'm not sure exactly how this current "administration" can be considered any better than any of the previous ones...having good players position by position (which we do have, but nowhere near as man as I would like)really doesn't mean anything if it doesn't translate into results..actually it's a sign that the coaches are the ones not doing their job (which, it pains me to say, has happened quite often in these last 3 years).
As for doing a good job of rebuidling from the ground up, I could agree if we do make the playoffs this year. If not, I'm not sure we've built anything at all, especially if you consider the trends that certain areas of our team have followed: the defense started out great, and is now pitiful. The offense started out horribly, then worked its way back to at least average, then got torn apart and built from scratch, now is looking like it can be pretty good...
Make no mistake, it does not take that long to build at least a decent team in the NFL..besides the Saints, that have had a pretty stunning turnaround, you can take the Bengals, who were 3-13 in 2002 (and possibly the worst franchise in sports) and haven't done worse than 8-8 since, the Chargers were 4-12 in 2003 and 12-4 the year after (and haven't done worse than 9-7 since), the Bears were 5-11 in 2004,11-5 last year and made the SB this year, the Jets went from 4-12 to a playoff team in one year, the Jaguars were 5-11 in 2003 and haven't had a losing season since, etc. etc. etc....we were 5-11 in Spurrier's last year, and after 3 years we are right back where we started (and aside from an isolated 5 game winning streak we wouldn't have even that 1 playoff appearence).
I agree with you 100%..this year will be the key. If things do not change and we don't make the playoffs, somebody has to be held accountable.

[firehawk157]

Well there is probably too much in here to cover everything, but lets talk about what went wrong with the D first and see if we agree. For me it is tough to pinpoint one or even a few things wrong with the '06 D.... It was a perfect storm of garbage IMO.

I'll start with the coaching. The player packages on the field were WRONG from day one. Holdman showed in 2005 that he no longer belongs on a football field. Sure in the right scheme he could be a nice role player maybe, but in this system he isn't/wasn't an adequate backup. And that issue goes all the way back to '05 when guys like Tatum Bell were looking like LT against our 'defense'. With the acquisition of Arch, Taylor had to become more "centerfield" coverage safety. Instead we still see Taylor supporting the run and Arch gettting beat deep. There was minimal rotation on the D-line.

Another big issue is that I think players bought the preseason hype which I put on the coaching staff. The only thing that will put a team over the top is hard work. No free agent or rookie or new coach is going to do it. The biggest mistake coach Gibbs has made IMO is treating these players like the mature, dedicated players of his old team. GW should have slaughtered this team in practice until people didn't have the energy to run their mouth off to the media.

The playcalling I felt was better at times than 2005 as there was less of that stupid "here comes my blitz" over and over and over.... But it still crept into the mix.

Injuries were a factor. This team simply can't win without Griffin in the lineup (hence why I was in favor of drafting Branch). Big Joe couldn't stay healthy. Springs couldn't stay healthy. MW and Marshall played hurt. It isn't an excuse, but still it was part of the issue (IMO).

Bottom line is that the best talent doesn't win in the NFL. It takes a collection of talent, hardwork, luck, study, etc. I know it sounds cliche, but I believe it. Our team is close IMO and they have the talent to win... They need a catalyst to bring it all together and take that next step, but I really believe in what we are doing wholeheartedly.

Good post. Just a thought, but luck was REALLY against us this year. How many times did a tipped ball count as a TD? How many times did ST knock the ball loose just to have it bounce outta bounds? We never got a tipped ball intercepted. But the second we tipped the ball on offense, the defense was there to pick it off. Just my thoughts

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Good post. Just a thought, but luck was REALLY against us this year. How many times did a tipped ball count as a TD? How many times did ST knock the ball loose just to have it bounce outta bounds? We never got a tipped ball intercepted. But the second we tipped the ball on offense, the defense was there to pick it off. Just my thoughts
I'm sorry, but you don't set an all-time record for futility in forcing turnovers just because of bad luck.

[joethefan]

I just can't figure out why this franchise, including Gibbs, is persistently reluctant in getting a certified competent general manager and for the love of God FIRE Vinny Ceratto. We have everything else- filthy rich owner who loves this team, hall of fame super bowl winning coach, and the arguably the best fanbase in all of sports.

And a owner that doesn't want to win...why do I say this...how else, if danny is making all the money he makes, how can he justify making it unless he spends big money....Do you think he cares what kind of contracts he gives out?...he hasn't in the past....if the majority teams have a GM and those teams win SB's, why wouldn't he do it...?...hmmm

I figured it out....its only a way to keep you coming to FED-EX...if danny were making all this money and not spend on big contracts, he would be seen by the league as greedy little weasel....but since he gives out luctrative contracts, the league and NFLPA doens't have an issue with him....but in the meantime he's created an atmoshpere in the league that makes him a little giant...he's little because he ain't winning, he a giant cause he's making more money than anyone...

Danny has been heavily influenced by the 90's Jerry Jones system...and still feels it will work, that's why he won't hire a qualified GM. and that's why he has this I'll show you mentality and it doesn't matter what we think as a fan becuase he knows just as soon as you give up your tickets, someone else will get him....

[hail2skins]

Sorry pal I did not start this thread.I was poster #143 to this particular thread so I did not resurrect a thing.So I think you need to go call out the right culprit.:Peace:Problems with reading comprehension huh. Put some glasses on and go back and re-read my post and you would see that I said you resurrected this thread NOT that you started it. The last post before yours is dated 3-31, yours is dated 4-8. The thread had been quiet for a over a week. Since you said you're tired of reading predictions, maybe you should have just read it and not post. That way, you wouldn't have to read more predictions. Now you do.

[dj_stouty]

I'm sorry, but you don't set an all-time record for futility in forcing turnovers just because of bad luck.

Exactly. They don't call them "forced fumbles" for nothing.

The defense needs to make plays and force turnovers. Bottom line. Guys who wait for tipped balls to grab interceptions tend to wait a long time.

Lets not forget that "luck" had nothing to do with Carlos Rogers dropping at least 3 easy interceptions.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I'm sorry, but you don't set an all-time record for futility in forcing turnovers just because of bad luck.
While I completely agree with you, you have to say there was some bad karma last year. Just look at that TD in the first Eagles game. That play was ridiculous. Having said that, I am a firm believer in making your own luck.

[dukeuch]

Well there is probably too much in here to cover everything, but lets talk about what went wrong with the D first and see if we agree. For me it is tough to pinpoint one or even a few things wrong with the '06 D.... It was a perfect storm of garbage IMO.

I'll start with the coaching. The player packages on the field were WRONG from day one. Holdman showed in 2005 that he no longer belongs on a football field. Sure in the right scheme he could be a nice role player maybe, but in this system he isn't/wasn't an adequate backup. And that issue goes all the way back to '05 when guys like Tatum Bell were looking like LT against our 'defense'. With the acquisition of Arch, Taylor had to become more "centerfield" coverage safety. Instead we still see Taylor supporting the run and Arch gettting beat deep. There was minimal rotation on the D-line.

Another big issue is that I think players bought the preseason hype which I put on the coaching staff. The only thing that will put a team over the top is hard work. No free agent or rookie or new coach is going to do it. The biggest mistake coach Gibbs has made IMO is treating these players like the mature, dedicated players of his old team. GW should have slaughtered this team in practice until people didn't have the energy to run their mouth off to the media.

The playcalling I felt was better at times than 2005 as there was less of that stupid "here comes my blitz" over and over and over.... But it still crept into the mix.

Injuries were a factor. This team simply can't win without Griffin in the lineup (hence why I was in favor of drafting Branch). Big Joe couldn't stay healthy. Springs couldn't stay healthy. MW and Marshall played hurt. It isn't an excuse, but still it was part of the issue (IMO).

Bottom line is that the best talent doesn't win in the NFL. It takes a collection of talent, hardwork, luck, study, etc. I know it sounds cliche, but I believe it. Our team is close IMO and they have the talent to win... They need a catalyst to bring it all together and take that next step, but I really believe in what we are doing wholeheartedly.

So if I were to boil this all down, you feel we have much better talent, but our coaching screwed it up and we had some injuries, hence the similarity in records?

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Not that there's anything really interesting, or that this is completely related to the thread, but here is a fragment of the JG spiritual gameplan:

Well, we’ve had a break and we’re into the off-season. I’ll give you a little update on football first. We’re in the middle of preparing for the draft and that’s extremely tough. Because what? We’re trying to go out, and we’ve had seven guys traveling the country, scouting for us. All of us here are trying to get ready, studying film. And the tough thing there is you’re trying to pick people. And as you guys know, everybody out there who’s in business or on any kind of team, people are hard to pick. I’m laughing at the scouts because they want to say how high a guy can jump, they want to time him, they want to see what he weighs, because we can tell exactly what each one of those categories is. The problem with this: we’re trying to pick people. When you’re trying to pick people, it’s not those measurables. It’s what? It’s what’s in the heart. So right now we’re making our final preparations. We’re even traveling around the country individually working guys out. We have the sixth pick in the country. Unless we move up and give somebody something to move up, we’re picking sixth. Or unless somebody comes to us and says, hey, we would like to move up to the sixth pick and can give us extra picks. So, we’re in that process right now and the drafts a few weeks away.

And about his grandson:

For the last six weeks he’s done extremely well. He’s got off the steroids, we’re on nothing but chemo now, and he’s handling it extremely well. We appreciate all the prayers.