Final Nominees

[flave1969]

Redskin nominees (23 In Total)
QB - Joe Theismann
RB - Terry Allen, Larry Brown, Joe Washington
WR - Gary Clark, Art Monk
TE - Jerry Smith
C - Len Hauss
G - Russ Grimm
T- Joe Jacoby
K - Mark Moseley

DE - Dexter Manley, Charles Mann, Bill Brundige(DT also)
DT - Dave Butz, Diron Talbert
LB - Ken Harvey, Chris Hanburger, Monte Coleman, Wilber Marshall
CB - Darrell Green, Pat Fischer

Owner - Jack Kent Cooke

NFL Nominees

QB - Dan Marino, Joe Montana, John Elway, Randall Cunningham, Bart Starr, Johnny Unitas, Roman Gabriel, Earl Clark, Roger Staubach
RB - Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, Terrell Davis, Walter Payton, Gale Sayers, Marcus Allen, Earl Campbell, Eric Dickerson, Hugh McElvenny
WR - Steve Largent, Paul Warfield, Lynn Swann, Don Maynard, Lance Alworth, Bob Hayes, James Lofton, Cris Carter

Bios will follow in this thread.

The 23 Redskins will be reduced to 18 for your vote.
The NFL Greats will be reduced to 2 per position.

Thank you for your Input

HERE IS THE NEW HALL FO FAME SELECTION CRITERIA AND INFROMATION PAGE FOR YOUR REVIEW

LINK HERE (http://www.hailredskins.com/hRHofFSelectionInfo.htm)

[hail2skins]

Looks good folks.

[smoak]

This is actually going to be realyl fun! (Or at least fun compared to the whining and complaing about our offseason)

Thanks for organizing flave!

[flave1969]

Joe Theismann - The contribution Joe T made to this team should not be underestimated, he may have been a motormouth but Joe could play. He is the franchise All-Time leader in yards with 25206 yards and threw 160 TD's, and he ran the Joe Gibbs offense very well. Joe was very good in the moving pocket and his mobility got him 17 career rushing TD's. His career was ended by that brutal Taylor hit but Joe had his ring and he can look back on his career with pride.

Larry Brown- If a tougher man played the game I dont know of him. Brown ran hard, ran despite numerous injuries, and ground out the yards on a consistent basis. Brown had 5875 rushing yards and 35 TD's. He also was a good receiver out of the backfield adding 238 receptions, 2485 yards and 20TD's. All told you could rely on over 80 all purpose yards per game from Brown and it really allowed the Redskin star players like Smith, Taylor and Jurgenson to do their thing.

Terry Allen Was a grinder just like Brown but did it in a pretty poor Redskin team. Allen had 4086 yards and 37 TD's in 52 games for the Redskins, very consistent performance. His 21 TD's in 1996 still rank second on the team. Had he managed full seasons in 97 and 98 he would have easily mustered 4 consecutive 1000 yard seasons, as it was injury robbed us of his services.

Joe Washington- Was such a versatile player and a fine compliment to John Riggins. He was the archetypal scatback, difficult to corral and able to stop and start on a dime. The 82 strike and an injury hit 84 season robbed the Redskins of production but his season in 81 ranks as one of the finest all purpose seasons in team history. 916 rushing yards, 72 receptions and 558 yards and 7TD's were a major contributing factor in Joe Gibbs rookie year turning from an 0-5 start to an 8-8 finish.

[flave1969]

Art Monk- We dont need to wax lyrical about Monk, that has been done endlessly. The bare facts are this 888 receptions, 12026 yards and 65TD's as a Redskin. He was the key that unlocked everything in the Joe Gibbs offense. He made his team mates better because he could do it all and was so selfless on the field of play. He was during his career the NFL Single season record holder, NFL Career leading receiver, NFL Career leader for most consecutive games with a reception.

Gary Clark- A genuine deep threat who was tough as they came. Never scared to run into traffic and totally fearless. His partnership with Monk is likely the most fruitful in NFL history. He left the Redskins with 549 receptions 8742 Yards and 58 TD's. His ability to go deep was utilised to great effect, but he was much more than a speed merchant. He wanted the ball all the time and would move to get open until the whistle blew on every play. We talk often about Monk for the Hall, but Clark is also worthy of consideration especially when you compare him to Michael Irvin.

[DCGreys]

I think the following would be my list. Deletions from the list of nominees are in parenthesis.



Redskin nominees (23 In Total)
QB - Joe Theismann
RB - (Terry Allen), Larry Brown, (Joe Washington)
WR - Gary Clark, Art Monk
TE - Jerry Smith
C - Len Hauss
G - Russ Grimm
T- Joe Jacoby
K - Mark Moseley

DE - Dexter Manley, Charles Mann, (Bill Brundige(DT also)
DT - Dave Butz, Diron Talbert
LB - (Ken Harvey), Chris Hanburger, Monte Coleman, (Wilber Marshall)
CB - Darrell Green, Pat Fischer

Owner - Jack Kent Cooke



NFL Nominees

QB - Starr, Unitas
RB - Brown, Payton.
WR - Maynard, Alworth.

[Keino]

Wait. You would delete Wilbur Marshall and keep Monte Coleman? One player was a starter, stud and all-pro and the other was not. Wilbur Marshall had arguably one of the best seasons ever as a LB when he led the team in tackles, sacks and tied for team lead in Ints....and we won a SB to boot.

[smoak]

Wait. You would delete Wilbur Marshall and keep Monte Coleman? One player was a starter, stud and all-pro and the other was not. Wilbur Marshall had arguably one of the best seasons ever as a LB when he led the team in tackles, sacks and tied for team lead in Ints....and we won a SB to boot.

Just a question -

Are we considering their entire career or just the time with the Redskins? I forget if this is supposed to be our HOF or a "Redskins HOF".

[flave1969]

Wait. You would delete Wilbur Marshall and keep Monte Coleman? One player was a starter, stud and all-pro and the other was not. Wilbur Marshall had arguably one of the best seasons ever as a LB when he led the team in tackles, sacks and tied for team lead in Ints....and we won a SB to boot.

You know there is merit in your point, it is one I have wrestled with.

Coleman compiled a pretty decent career as a Redskin, his 17 career picks as a linebacker is bettered only by Hanburger. He also registered 56.5 Sacks and 1006 tackles in his career, not bad for an 11th round draft choice.

Marshall in his career had more picks than Coleman but less Sacks. It is hard to quantify a 5 year career(as a Skin) against a 16 year one. Did Coleman have a season comparable to Marshall in 1991? 1984 was close when Coleman had 10.5 sacks and had a TD return. I seem to remember him really stepping up in 1984.

Tough choice really, one you as committee members must make.

[flave1969]

Just a question -

Are we considering their entire career or just the time with the Redskins? I forget if this is supposed to be our HOF or a "Redskins HOF".

We are considering their impact as a Redskin.

[Keino]

Just a question -

Are we considering their entire career or just the time with the Redskins? I forget if this is supposed to be our HOF or a "Redskins HOF".

Well, I think we should give weight to both, but obviously more weight to their career as a Redskin. For me, in both measures Marshall exceeds Coleman, but I realize in retrospect that maybe I shouldn't have brought a debate styled post to this thread.

[flave1969]

Well, I think we should give weight to both, but obviously more weight to their career as a Redskin. For me, in both measures Marshall exceeds Coleman, but I realize in retrospect that maybe I shouldn't have brought a debate styled post to this thread.

We are welcome to comment within these threads.

However, those who are on the committee are supposed to contact me in private with their cut down lists, I certainly dont want a bun fight.

The system we have allows for personal preference but I do think it is important that we focus on the contribution as a Redskin. We are actually lucky that those in our list really did contribute as a Redskin.

If you look at Ken Harvey for instance you see a player who played very well as a Redskin on a historically weaker Redskin team. It is down to us all to think hard and use all the context surrounding each player and make a balanced judgement.

[Keino]

Well I sent my cut down list to you in private, and honestly, it was one of the hardest things I had to do, especially when figuring out the 5th cut to get down to 18.

Ultimately, I cut both Harvey and Coleman. I don't think I can justify putting a non-starter in over a guy who not only started but was elite at his position once he adjusted to a different scheme. I also factor in the fact that we went out and traded for Marshall while Coleman was on our team and they played the same position. I love Monte. He was a beast on Special Teams and he was the Nickle Mike, in a role that was very much suited to his skill set.

Harvey, is another one that I cut. I think his stats are somewhat misleading. He made a lot of tackels, but having watched him for his entire Redskins career, I have a huge gripe with the number of tackles that he made 6 yards downfield. Now that may be a function of being on a poor team, but it was something that I had to consider. Ultimately, I felt Hanburger and Marshall more deserving of 1st ballot than Coleman or Harvey.

[flave1969]

Harvey, is another one that I cut. I think his stats are somewhat misleading. He made a lot of tackels, but having watched him for his entire Redskins career, I have a huge gripe with the number of tackles that he made 6 yards downfield.

Harvey did record 41.5 sacks in his 74 games as a Skin, so he did do a lot of good work in the opposition backfield.

[smoak]

Wait, are we doing these cuts in a thread or a poll? Also, given the impressive list, I don't think there is a "wrong" answer...

[flave1969]

Wait, are we doing these cuts in a thread or a poll? Also, given the impressive list, I don't think there is a "wrong" answer...

Smoak, this thread is just to announce the final nominations.

The 15 man committee will give me their cut down lists by choosing 18 of the 23 Redskins listed and 2 NFL players per position.

The Members will then have two votes to take part in. The first will be to reduce the 18 Redskins picked by the committee to 10, call it a Semi Final if you like.

The second vote will be to elect the first class in our Hall of Fame. This will produce a class of Five Redskins and one former NFL QB, RB and WR.

[smoak]

Smoak, this thread is just to announce the final nominations.

The 15 man committee will give me their cut down lists by choosing 18 of the 23 Redskins listed and 2 NFL players per position.

The Members will then have two votes to take part in. The first will be to reduce the 18 Redskins picked by the committee to 10, call it a Semi Final if you like.

The second vote will be to elect the first class in our Hall of Fame. This will produce a class of Five Redskins and one former NFL QB, RB and WR.

Thanks! Between work and the baby I didn't want to committ to the committee, but now I wish I had. Sounds great and I am looking forward to when we get to vote.

Well, I think we should give weight to both, but obviously more weight to their career as a Redskin. For me, in both measures Marshall exceeds Coleman, but I realize in retrospect that maybe I shouldn't have brought a debate styled post to this thread.
I couldn't agree more, but I just wanted to check. I most heavily weight Redskins performance which means I wouldn't vote for a Deion Sanders (EVER!).

Also - Will your cuts be made public at some point or is it too much to debate with all 15 committee member over their choices. I just think it would be fun to see.

[flave1969]

If I had to drop 5, I dont pick by the way.

I would drop Allen, Washington, Brundige, Harvey, Cooke.

All are absolutely worthy but in this company there are players that I feel must be considered.

Whilst here. Here are some of the players that did not get nominated.

Jim Lachey, Mark Schlereth, Brig Owens, Mike Bass, Earnest Byner, Jeff Bostic, Mike Bragg, Billy Kilmer, Mark May, Ron McDole, Harold Mclinton, Mark May, Mark Murphy, Neal Olkewicz, Vince Promuto, Ricky Sanders, Don Warren, Joe Lavender.

[Keino]

Man....There are some GLARING omissions. Perhaps the nomination process should be altered a bit for next year. I think the repeat picks (Like 80% of the board nominating Art Monk for example) sort of limited the pool of players. Obviously, participation is also a key here.

If we didn't allow for duplicate nominations then I think some of these other player would have been considered. Lachey in my mind was the most dominant OT to play in a Skins Uni, Im upset I didn't think to nominate him.

[smoak]

Man....There are some GLARING omissions. Perhaps the nomination process should be altered a bit for next year. I think the repeat picks (Like 80% of the board nominating Art Monk for example) sort of limited the pool of players. Obviously, participation is also a key here.

If we didn't allow for duplicate nominations then I think some of these other player would have been considered. Lachey in my mind was the most dominant OT to play in a Skins Uni, Im upset I didn't think to nominate him.

Great suggestion! I was about to nominate Monk when I thought, why not throw out Mark Moseley considering I didn't think anyone else would...

Or maybe have the committee do all the nominating and the boards do the voting? Either way this is great.

[flave1969]

Man....There are some GLARING omissions. Perhaps the nomination process should be altered a bit for next year. I think the repeat picks (Like 80% of the board nominating Art Monk for example) sort of limited the pool of players. Obviously, participation is also a key here.

If we didn't allow for duplicate nominations then I think some of these other player would have been considered. Lachey in my mind was the most dominant OT to play in a Skins Uni, Im upset I didn't think to nominate him.

The thing is the process was originally designed to avoid repeat nominations thats why the thread was there so people could see who was nominated and adjust their picks accordingly.

I even put a post in pleading people to look at the 70 greatest Redskins.

People didn't really read the initial post I thought it was pretty clear, but nevermind we can refine the process.

[CNYSkinFan]

The hardest part for me was NFL QB. I went with Elway and Montana because of the rings. Marino deserves to be in next time we do QBs, but the rings for Elway and Montana did it for me.

[flave1969]

The hardest part for me was NFL QB. I went with Elway and Montana because of the rings. Marino deserves to be in next time we do QBs, but the rings for Elway and Montana did it for me.

We will actually only choose one QB this time, two will go up for the membership to choose between.

[CNYSkinFan]

still hard choice to make. Montana, Elway, Marino, best qbs ever to play IMO and they all played at the same time.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

Flave1969,

I finally got to send in my cut down list to 18. Thanks, crazy week at work.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

Monte Coleman was a starter on the 1987 Superbowl team. He was also on all 4 superbowl teams of Gibbs era. Not always a starter, but tied for 2nd all time career games (215) in Redskins history with Sammy Baugh and only 2nd to Darrell Green. 16 years as a Skin counts for a lot. Plus 1006 career tackles, not bad.

[LATrueRedskin]

Man....There are some GLARING omissions. Perhaps the nomination process should be altered a bit for next year. I think the repeat picks (Like 80% of the board nominating Art Monk for example) sort of limited the pool of players. Obviously, participation is also a key here.

If we didn't allow for duplicate nominations then I think some of these other player would have been considered. Lachey in my mind was the most dominant OT to play in a Skins Uni, Im upset I didn't think to nominate him.

They are, but if we continue to do this, then I'm confident the players who are worthy will eventually be elected. As soon as we elect whom we elect, those people are off the list, and make way for guys like Lachey, Owens, Sanders, Kilmer, etc. I think it's a cool thing, and it reflects where the players stand in peoples' minds historically.

[flave1969]

Monte Coleman was a starter on the 1987 Superbowl team. He was also on all 4 superbowl teams of Gibbs era. Not always a starter, but tied for 2nd all time career games (215) in Redskins history with Sammy Baugh and only 2nd to Darrell Green. 16 years as a Skin counts for a lot. Plus 1006 career tackles, not bad.


I think Coleman was the type of player every team needs. Able to fulfil his role no matter what was asked, and a playmaker as well. We could really do with a couple of Monte Coleman's on our team, I think it is exactly what we lack as a team.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

You know Lemar Marshall seems to be that kind of Monte Coleman type player, a guy who is a team player, who does what the coaches ask of him, even if it is playing in the middle out of his natural position and being undersized in the middle. Marshall still made plays last year, but it's hard when your line is not healthy and you have Holdman on the other side of you. Marshall should make an impact for us on the outside again. Yeah, but we need some more Monte Coleman type players, loyal, heart and soul.

[flave1969]

You know Lemar Marshall seems to be that kind of Monte Coleman type player, a guy who is a team player, who does what the coaches ask of him, even if it is playing in the middle out of his natural position and being undersized in the middle. Marshall still made plays last year, but it's hard when your line is not healthy and you have Holdman on the other side of you. Marshall should make an impact for us on the outside again. Yeah, but we need some more Monte Coleman type players, loyal, heart and soul.

I am glad we have Lemar on the team I wasn't necessarily thinking of him. Monte was a very adaptable player, who didn't seem uncomfortable whether he was rushing the QB or dropping back in pass coverage. Last year we seemed to have players who were only competent in certain areas, Archuleta for instance. If you have versatile players like Lemar and say Prioleau you can really mix things up. Our line is the prime example. I wont label Montgomery and Golston yet and in Carter we may well have a fine player, but the rest have proven so one dimensional.

We were spoiled with players like Talbert, Brundige, Butz even Grant. They could collapse the pocket in a way you dont see Griff, Salavea, Boschetti etc doing as well as stuff the run.

[flave1969]

Just four more sets of picks to come from Bantu, csquared, Biggie and HockieGoalie29.

The picks are going great and there will be some interesting debate amongst the committee to pick the last couple of players.

[bgforever]

Thanks for the idea, time and effort for this HR Hall of Fame, Andrew!

[28Zcomeback]

the man practically invented the defensive tackle position. He was pro bowl for several years and played in the playoffs. Lombardi's Packers thought he was the toughest guy they faced on the line.

On the famous Tom Dempsey field goal kick, that set the NFL record, take a look at the film... all the Lions are standing around, laughing...except for one. That's right, look at old 71, Mister Alex Karras, jumping, twisting, fighting his heart out to block the kick.

He was fast, furious, and never gave up, even with the mediocre Lion organization of the sixties. His team had quarterbacks like Ed Munson, Earl Morrall, and George Plimpton. And don't forget Nick Eddy.

Any way, Alex Karras should be in the hall of fame. If this is the wrong forum, let me know.