Asante Samuel??

[chrisbcbu]

He is requesting a trade out of NE. Eventually the Skins will be mentioned as we are always mentioned. But would anyone be interested in bringing him here to DC?

I would love to get him but only if the price is right. Our #6 for Samuel and their higher 1st rounder. Maybe we could throw Springs in the deal and we could get another pick from them, maybe 3rd rounder. (just spitballing here)

Thoughts?

[BIGSEF3]

He is requesting a trade out of NE. Eventually the Skins will be mentioned as we are always mentioned. But would anyone be interested in bringing him here to DC?

I would love to get him but only if the price is right. Our #6 for Samuel and their higher 1st rounder. Maybe we could throw Springs in the deal and we could get another pick from them, maybe 3rd rounder. (just spitballing here)

Thoughts?

asante samuel is worth our #6 all by himself, and it would probably take our #6 plus a player or another draft pick to get him, even if NE was inclined to trade him. There is no way we could even get NE to throw in a 3rd rounder, let alone their first.

[akhhorus]

Pass. He was an okay CB until his contract year. I wouldn't take him unless they threw in much more.

[Discalced]

My only problem with Asante Samuel is his first 3 years in the league. He was decent, but not the gamechanging threat of last season.

Do he, Carlos, and Smoot make a solid top three?

[chrisbcbu]

asante samuel is worth our #6 all by himself, and it would probably take our #6 plus a player or another draft pick to get him, even if NE was inclined to trade him. There is no way we could even get NE to throw in a 3rd rounder, let alone their first.

If Briggs(2 time probowler) is not worth our #6 alone, i find it hard to believe that Samuel would be.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

gotta link chris? asante wants to get PAID. the trade you proposed doesnt sound bad, but i have a feeling we'd end up on the bad side of a draft day trade with NE.....

[DUCKIN_TACKLERS]

Better option then Briggs but IMO we need DE first and foremost. Draft Day if we cant move from 6 and we feel we arent getting a good DE then OK. Im done playing GM this year though. Ill wait until something gets done to get fired up about anything now.

[chrisbcbu]

gotta link chris? asante wants to get PAID. the trade you proposed doesnt sound bad, but i have a feeling we'd end up on the bad side of a draft day trade with NE.....

my bad. i heard it on NFL network. But i will find a link.

Edit: Found link on KFFL.
Patriots | Samuel requests a trade
Wed, 4 Apr 2007 17:10:48 -0700

Adam Schefter, of the NFL Network, reports New England Patriots CB Asante Samuel has requested a trade because he is unhappy with the way contract negotiations have gone.

[redskin_rich]

Didn't the Patriots franchise Samuel? Where are they getting all their cap room?

Just like Briggs, he will be too expensive for us, regardless of what the trade parameters were.

[dj_stouty]

Can Asante put his hand in the dirt and line up at DE?

(I'm getting tired of posting this every week) ;)

[coffdogg]

I think Samuel is a contract year wonder just as it was stated by other people.He would be Dana Stubblefield for us.Huge player,Game changer and Defensive player of the year and then BOOOOMMMMMMM,the payday comes from the good old Skins and he forgets how to play DT,falls down stairs and sucks up our money like a super vac.Better off taking a pass and going with Springs,Smoot,and Rogers and let the best 2 start.

[BIGSEF3]

Didn't the Patriots franchise Samuel? Where are they getting all their cap room?

Just like Briggs, he will be too expensive for us, regardless of what the trade parameters were.
i think NE was like 30M under the cap when the offseason started. they have plenty of room. either way, this is just samuel talking. ne has no reason to trade him.

[redskin_rich]

i think NE was like 30M under the cap when the offseason started. they have plenty of room. either way, this is just samuel talking. ne has no reason to trade him.
I know but I wouldn't be surprised if Belichick did trade him.
The reason I asked about their cap room is because they have been throwing around some huge contracts, Brady has to be among the top 5 paid in the league or he needs a new deal and the franchise tag on a CB has to be like $9 Mil now.

[GolfFreak]

I would like to have him, but I think we can do OK next year with Springs, Smoot and Rogers. So I'd rather use the 6th pick to take a DE.

[Red Bear]

He is requesting a trade out of NE. Eventually the Skins will be mentioned as we are always mentioned. But would anyone be interested in bringing him here to DC?

I would love to get him but only if the price is right. Our #6 for Samuel and their higher 1st rounder. Maybe we could throw Springs in the deal and we could get another pick from them, maybe 3rd rounder. (just spitballing here)

Thoughts?

http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=939944&postcount=336

my prediction in that post didnt take long

[Red Bear]

I know but I wouldn't be surprised if Belichick did trade him.
The reason I asked about their cap room is because they have been throwing around some huge contracts, Brady has to be among the top 5 paid in the league or he needs a new deal and the franchise tag on a CB has to be like $9 Mil now.

when brady signed his deal a year or two ago it was reported it was very cap friendly. plus some of the contracts new england has given out to guys like stallworth and kelley washington probably have small cap hits this year, as theyre reported to be one year prove it deals before due big money in year 2

[Slobberknocker]

PFT picked up on the story. It figures, you know. New England has always convinced players to buy into a team-first philosophy. But when you go on a spending binge, it's gotta send a bad signal. Still, you can't really cry for a guy being franchised. Making 458,000 a game... I dunno, guys. I'm gonna have to pass. Got to consider what's best for my peeps!

[skinsfan36]

i dont think we make a play for this guy he has talent but he had his best year by far in a walk yr so idk.

[shally]

Pass. He was an okay CB until his contract year. I wouldn't take him unless they threw in much more.

agree.. too much in one year.. too much worry on his part to "get paid"

pass

[Emmanouel8]

Too many red flags for me,

1. Played in a great defensive system
2. Productive for 1 season
3. Disgruntled

In addition he would be costly in drsft picks and salary cap.

No Thanks.

[skinsfan36]

agree.. too much in one year.. too much worry on his part to "get paid"

pass
he even got a tattoo on his arm that said "get paid" like right before the playoffs

[shally]

he even got a tattoo on his arm that said "get paid" like right before the playoffs

that was what i was alluding to.. as expensive as clement was, samuel will get the same level of contract.

simply not worth it

[Emmanouel8]

he even got a tattoo on his arm that said "get paid" like right before the playoffs

add that to my list of red flags too...

[bgforever]

that was what i was alluding to.. as expensive as clement was, samuel will get the same level of contract.

simply not worth it

I see NE needing to unload him to go after Hall in a move up.

I also see us controlling #6 all the way to draft day. So far its true and that may lead to an "additional" pick to groom, from the top of the 2nd , which to me IS a CB most likely, THEN an OG, while the lower 1st gets us the DL. The reason the experience to the LB position is so important, is because Rocky was given dust on the shelve instead of homework. What we saw from Rocky was misguided use by Lindsey, and a lot of miscommunication. The better part of Rocky's game was his OWN efforts. We can get by with it, as long as we shore up the DL and improve the situation at CB (either the SS signing or the trade, which seems even more unlikely now). I think the keeping of SS allows us much more roster room for the depth players who can play a role later in the season, but are still capable of getting some time early on in the season. Much like how Golston matriculated into his role.

[urobm]

Isnt it funny that whenever a player wants to get paid, we always come up in conversation. That says allot doesnt it. I guess you can look at that a few different ways, but I dont wont every FA or disgruntled player to look for a payday here. Samuels, is a good corner, and if he had hit free agency, we should have been all over him. Unfortunately, he didn't and now he is demanding a trade. Well whatever happens if he stays in New England or goes, he will make a team very happy. The only question, I have and I think someone brought this up already, is which Samuels are you getting, the one that was an adequate starter for three years, or the one that performed at an elite level last year. You can say that this was a contract year for him so that was the reason, but couldnt you say that every year about a player in the NFL. I think he has great skills, but I dont want to see him in DC involving any trade.

[bgforever]

Isnt it funny that whenever a player wants to get paid, we always come up in conversation. That says allot doesnt it. I guess you can look at that a few different ways, but I dont wont every FA or disgruntled player to look for a payday here. Samuels, is a good corner, and if he had hit free agency, we should have been all over him. Unfortunately, he didn't and now he is demanding a trade. Well whatever happens if he stays in New England or goes, he will make a team very happy. The only question, I have and I think someone brought this up already, is which Samuels are you getting, the one that was an adequate starter for three years, or the one that performed at an elite level last year. You can say that this was a contract year for him so that was the reason, but couldnt you say that every year about a player in the NFL. I think he has great skills, but I dont want to see him in DC involving any trade.


Like your view

[urobm]

I see NE needing to unload him to go after Hall in a move up.

I also see us controlling #6 all the way to draft day. So far its true and that may lead to an "additional" pick to groom, from the top of the 2nd , which to me IS a CB most likely, THEN an OG, while the lower 1st gets us the DL. The reason the experience to the LB position is so important, is because Rocky was given dust on the shelve instead of homework. What we saw from Rocky was misguided use by Lindsey, and a lot of miscommunication. The better part of Rocky's game was his OWN efforts. We can get by with it, as long as we shore up the DL and improve the situation at CB (either the SS signing or the trade, which seems even more unlikely now). I think the keeping of SS allows us much more roster room for the depth players who can play a role later in the season, but are still capable of getting some time early on in the season. Much like how Golston matriculated into his role.

Good point

[urobm]

that was what i was alluding to.. as expensive as clement was, samuel will get the same level of contract.

simply not worth it


I agree not worth it at all. Clements set the salary mark for CBs which was simply outrageous, but you cant blame him. On a positive not eSamuels had a progessive maturation process. I remember in his first and 2nd year he was getting roasted by WRs. He showed this year that he has moved into the elite class of CBs, and that as a 4th round he had time to grow and develop. Hmmm sounds like something we need to try, if we can ever hold onto to our picks.

[Swirvi]

Its looking more and more like we are holding a golden ticket with that #6 pick. I would hate for us to do anything with it before draft day. Lets see who wants it the most? The Bears, Patriots, Falcons? Or, barring no offers too thrilling, we use it to move up and take CJ...my personal favorite choice.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

NO, NO , No, I don't want him here. I say we stand pat, he would cost too much and then what. Smoot, Rogers, and Springs should be good for us. For now.

[bergiemoore]

Its looking more and more like we are holding a golden ticket with that #6 pick. I would hate for us to do anything with it before draft day. Lets see who wants it the most? The Bears, Patriots, Falcons? Or, barring no offers too thrilling, we use it to move up and take CJ...my personal favorite choice.

Who do you think is going to be available at #6 for us to punch this "golden ticket"?

[smoak]

Definitely pass. I'd much rather draft Chris Houston than trade for the overrated Samuel.

[hockeygoalie29]

Who do you think is going to be available at #6 for us to punch this "golden ticket"?

At least 7 of the following are guaranteed to be there at #6: Branch, Quinn, Peterson, Russel, Johnon, Thomas, Jackon, Willis, Landry, Anderson, Adams, and Okoye

[bergiemoore]

At least 7 of the following are guaranteed to be there at #6: Branch, Quinn, Peterson, Russel, Johnon, Thomas, Jackon, Willis, Landry, Anderson, Adams, and Okoye

Of these mentioned, what teams will be willing to initiate a trade?

I've heard a lot about the Falcons potentially wanting to jump in front of the Vikings to grab Landry. That would might net us a 3rd round pick. The Falcons have some extra picks as a result of the Houston trade, so this may happen.

What are some other potential trade scenarios out there? (Should this conversation be in another thread?)

[redwolf1218]

Definitely pass. I'd much rather draft Chris Houston than trade for the overrated Samuel.
Chris Houston sounds like a freak of nature from what i've been reading, i wouldnt mind having him on our team at all. 4.3 in the 40, 27 reps, set a freshman record for bench press with 420 pounds, only missed 3 games in college... he'd probably be around later in the first round in a trade-down scenario, but i'm sure how much later. i'm just not sold on the tackles and ends at the top of the draft, so i'd be happy with Houston.

sounds like a Gibbs guy, humble and hard-working, here's good interview with him:

http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=71&p=2&c=632697

[Swirvi]

At least 7 of the following are guaranteed to be there at #6: Branch, Quinn, Peterson, Russel, Johnon, Thomas, Jackon, Willis, Landry, Anderson, Adams, and Okoye

But more than likely:

Branch
Quinn (maybe)
Jackson
Willis
Landry
Anderson
Adams
Okoye

And at least 3 teams are going to want to jump up to grab Quinn, Branch, Landry, Anderson, or Adams.

I'm just saying, lets see who wants it more. If nobody offers anything sweet enough, then we can take Branch.

I think Landry is going to be that "Golden Ticket" I was referring to. Chicago wants him and knows they will have to trade up to avoid Atlanta taking him. Atlanta really wants him and knows they will probably have to trade up to insure that he is there before they pick at 9.

Also, if Quinn is still available, then we could have multiple teams drooling over that 6 spot for the chance to grab him or Landry.

[firehawk157]

Its looking more and more like we are holding a golden ticket with that #6 pick. I would hate for us to do anything with it before draft day. Lets see who wants it the most? The Bears, Patriots, Falcons? Or, barring no offers too thrilling, we use it to move up and take CJ...my personal favorite choice.

I really don't think Asante Samuel would be that bad here. Give him a decent signing bonus (somewhere in the $5 mil range) then load up the contract with roster bonuses. That way he still has to work for his paychecks, but it's lucrative if he maintains his level of play. He would free up Springs to move to safety or possibly cut/trade him (more picks?). A secondary of Taylor, Springs, Samuel and Rogers/Smoot would look pretty nasty and with the NE pick we should get, we can take a decent DE and our defense is looking pretty nasty IMO.

[Redskin4Life]

Of these mentioned, what teams will be willing to initiate a trade?

I've heard a lot about the Falcons potentially wanting to jump in front of the Vikings to grab Landry. That would might net us a 3rd round pick. The Falcons have some extra picks as a result of the Houston trade, so this may happen.

What are some other potential trade scenarios out there? (Should this conversation be in another thread?)
To be fair Bergie, yea this convo should be in the draft forum.... maybe I should start a wild trade scenarios so the few of us in the forum that like to make up trade scenarios can all discuss there.

Anyway back to Samuels, I just don't think we need him here. Bring in Samuels is like doing what we did last year... signing two CBs when really need just one. IMO, if we're looking for another CB, I would rather we drafted another one than getting Samuels. The new draftee would then be our nickel or dime back... and in a few years be our starter.

[Poindexter]

I have an idea.....how about we stop trading picks for players, do our homework and find some guys who can play instead of trading to take someone elses players. Samuels was drafted in the fourth round of the draft and we should be able to find a guy like him in this years draft if we do our homework.

[JsMaViSd]

hes a good player, but we dont need him

[NCskinsfanatic]

Trade down if at all possible, keep the 6th pick until the draft...pass on Samuels.

[RedskinRyan]

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/04/05/samuel_eyes_trade/

says contract negotiations arent going too well, so he wants out. the rumors of us trading for him can start now.

[PyroGenic]

http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=40538


its kinda in the wrong forum but oh well.

[Skinz4lyfe]

No way, especially after picking up Smoot. I say we take our chances w/Springs, Smoot, and Rogers. Then next year we can worry about drafting another CB.

[firehawk157]

No way, especially after picking up Smoot. I say we take our chances w/Springs, Smoot, and Rogers. Then next year we can worry about drafting another CB.

I am nervous about Springs though, chances are he'll miss half the games and Rogers isn't exactly a stalwart of consistency.

[dj_stouty]

Merged

[bergiemoore]

I'll pass on Samuels. I do like the guy, and he's on my Skins roster in Madden, but I don't think that we have anything worth trading, this year, unless we want to start giving away '08 picks, or NE would swap 1st rounders.

[shally]

I'll pass on Samuels. I do like the guy, and he's on my Skins roster in Madden, but I don't think that we have anything worth trading, this year, unless we want to start giving away '08 picks, or NE would swap 1st rounders.


just pass on this guy

[PyroGenic]

I am nervous about Springs though, chances are he'll miss half the games and Rogers isn't exactly a stalwart of consistency.

Rogers just needs to invest in some Stick-em or line his gloves with fly paper or something.

[firehawk157]

Rogers just needs to invest in some Stick-em or line his gloves with fly paper or something.

I think it might be a vision problem, maybe he doesn't look the ball into his hands or has a problem with depth perception.

[JsMaViSd]

I think it might be a vision problem, maybe he doesn't look the ball into his hands or has a problem with depth perception.

or maybe he just cant catch

[openallnight]

Can Asante put his hand in the dirt and line up at DE?

(I'm getting tired of posting this every week) ;)
Exactly! No trade is happening w/ our #6 pick unless we're getting multiple D Linemen in return.

[smoak]

Chris Houston sounds like a freak of nature from what i've been reading, i wouldnt mind having him on our team at all. 4.3 in the 40, 27 reps, set a freshman record for bench press with 420 pounds, only missed 3 games in college... he'd probably be around later in the first round in a trade-down scenario, but i'm sure how much later. i'm just not sold on the tackles and ends at the top of the draft, so i'd be happy with Houston.

sounds like a Gibbs guy, humble and hard-working, here's good interview with him:

http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=71&p=2&c=632697

Chirs Houston seems to really be moving up draft boards and I have him as the #1 CB on my board. He'll probably go #2, but we could really use a strong physical press CB to play against the TOs of the league. I think he'd struggle if left on an islan with speedsters, but other than that I think he is the real deal. I'd MUCH rather have him than Samuel... And he'd be a heck of a lot cheaper to sign.

[chrisbcbu]

I think it might be a vision problem, maybe he doesn't look the ball into his hands or has a problem with depth perception.

He was supposed to work out with Darrell and Deion this offseason, so hopefully he picked up something from them. As much as I hate Deion he is one of the best.

[RedskinRyan]

He was supposed to work out with Darrell and Deion this offseason, so hopefully he picked up something from them. As much as I hate Deion he is one of the best.

i hope deion didnt take him fishing afterwards....

im a bit wary of signing another ex-pat player. david patten and christian fauria didnt really work out well here. now samuels could be different, but still not sure id want to give him the big bucks he'll be seeking. im sure he'll want something close to what clements got.

[firehawk157]

He was supposed to work out with Darrell and Deion this offseason, so hopefully he picked up something from them. As much as I hate Deion he is one of the best.

But you just can't teach hands. I know I'm nowhere near a pro player, but I have good hands and my brother doesn't, it's just the way it is. You either have them or you don't.

[American Soldier]

I think it might be a vision problem, maybe he doesn't look the ball into his hands or has a problem with depth perception.

That dept perception problem could very well be true. Years ago, I played center field for my high school baseball team. In my senior year I started to have a hard time judging the ball off the bat. I was able to see fine as far as I was concerned. My eye doctor later told me that my eyes were not as 20/20 as I thought. I wonder if Carlos wears contacts lens?

[American Soldier]

But you just can't teach hands. I know I'm nowhere near a pro player, but I have good hands and my brother doesn't, it's just the way it is. You either have them or you don't.

There's some truth to that too. However, a lot has to do with confidence. BUT Carlos should already have confidence!!

He better get those eyes checked, start watching film, stop looking for praise after he tackles someone and get his hands out his eeeerrrrrssssss!!!

:inkston: See it's not that heard Carlos

[shally]

There's some truth to that too. However, a lot has to do with confidence. BUT Carlos should already have confidence!!

He better get those eyes checked, start watching film, stop looking for praise after he tackles someone and get his hands out his eeeerrrrrssssss!!!

:inkston: See it's not that heard Carlos

forget it now.. we are getting depth at corner-- macklin signed.. we are not looking for another #1 type

[VegasSkinsFan]

forget it now.. we are getting depth at corner-- macklin signed.. we are not looking for another #1 type

Exactly, now it is tim efor the D-Line. Go Skins !!!!

[openallnight]

But you just can't teach hands. I know I'm nowhere near a pro player, but I have good hands and my brother doesn't, it's just the way it is. You either have them or you don't.
This is true to a degree. But, hands, like strength, CAN be improved to a degree. No matter how hard Carlos works he'll never have Art Monk hands. But, for 3+ Mil $/yr. he ought to practice enough catching drills to at least be able to catch 66% of the easy ones.

[GibbsFan]

Now that we have signed Macklin there is only one trade worth making before draft day. Our 6th selection and Springs to the Patsies for Samuel plus the 24th and 28th picks in the draft. Nah, they won't do it but it sure would be sweet if they would.

[chrisbcbu]

But you just can't teach hands. I know I'm nowhere near a pro player, but I have good hands and my brother doesn't, it's just the way it is. You either have them or you don't.

in college Rogers had great hands. So i dont know what happened once he turned pro. I think its more mental than anything.

BTW with the signing of Macklin i think this thread should be killed. JMO. I dont see the skins going after another corner now.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

in college Rogers had great hands. So i dont know what happened once he turned pro. I think its more mental than anything.

BTW with the signing of Macklin i think this thread should be killed. JMO. I dont see the skins going after another corner now.
According to Washington Times article, they are at least making the call.

http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20070406-124136-1222r.htm

Although they appear set at cornerback, the Redskins are expected to call New England about Asante Samuel, who expressed disappointment Wednesday about not getting a long-term contract and would be open to a trade. Samuel shared a tie for first in the NFL last year with 10 interceptions and was designated as the Patriots' franchise player.

Unable to complete a major trade this offseason -- talks with Chicago for linebacker Lance Briggs broke down earlier this week -- the Redskins might make a play for Samuel.

[shally]

According to Washington Times article, they are at least making the call.

http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20070406-124136-1222r.htm

Although they appear set at cornerback, the Redskins are expected to call New England about Asante Samuel, who expressed disappointment Wednesday about not getting a long-term contract and would be open to a trade. Samuel shared a tie for first in the NFL last year with 10 interceptions and was designated as the Patriots' franchise player.

Unable to complete a major trade this offseason -- talks with Chicago for linebacker Lance Briggs broke down earlier this week -- the Redskins might make a play for Samuel.

what ?? we need to make a splash every year ?

no way we sign or trade for samuel unless the trade involves springs.. and i just do not see that happening

[bergiemoore]

what ?? we need to make a splash every year ?

no way we sign or trade for samuel unless the trade involves springs.. and i just do not see that happening

PFT is also running this rumor: LINK (http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm)

I'm hoping that this is just another case of rampant mediot speculation based on the template provided by the Briggs-watch-week.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

On the other hand, I guess the FO would not being doing their jobs if they didn't at least test the waters to see what NE is looking for. Really, every team should be making the call to NE as well.

[colkurtz]

We brought in Smoot and Macklin - so why ANOTHER CB?

We could bring in the "second coming" of CBs here ---- if we have no pass rush AGAIN (19 sacks) and we can't stop the run, this guy will get burned and our defense will still be #31.

Can't understand the fascination with CB and WR FAs when our defense played so horribly last season. The DL problems have not been addressed in any way and will only get worse if we don't bring in talent.

[SAKFurby]

The rumor Ive read is that they want our 6th and Springs for Samuel...... Our phone call should go like this " Go f--- yourself"

[chrisbcbu]

The rumor Ive read is that they want our 6th and Springs for Samuel...... Our phone call should go like this " Go f--- yourself"

If this is true i would not do it at all. And i hope we hang the phone up on them.

We should wait til next year when he is a FA and sign him then if this is the case.

[SAKFurby]

If this is true i would not do it at all. And i hope we hang the phone up on them.

We should wait til next year when he is a FA and sign him then if this is the case.

If we need him next year than yea I agree, this year has been to crazy with the amount of money players are getting he wants more than Clements got, which was about twice the amount he should have got.

[bergiemoore]

On the other hand, I guess the FO would not being doing their jobs if they didn't at least test the waters to see what NE is looking for. Really, every team should be making the call to NE as well.

I hope this is a case of due diligence on our FO's part. This media hysteria every time Snyder picks up the phone, or mumbles something about a player in hear shot of a reporter is really distressing for us fans.

[462skin]

What about Lemar Marshall, Springs and Lloyd with the 6th for Samuel and the 24th and 28th? We could get a LB (possibly Poz) and we may even be able to get Anderson (DE from Arkansas)....just a thought...

[greatest2]

What about Lemar Marshall, Springs and Lloyd with the 6th for Samuel and the 24th and 28th? We could get a LB (possibly Poz) and we may even be able to get Anderson (DE from Arkansas)....just a thought...

why would they want llyod, they signed 2 solid wideouts this year. Also, why lemar? do they have a shortage of backers? i dont think that is the bellichek(spelling) way, to sign a vetern who is average. i would think bellichek would rather teach a young guy, or take a above average vetern with some time left (seau).

I would try to give our 6th and springs, for samuels there 2nd and 3rd rounder this year, and next years 3rd.

Im really not sure i want samuels yet, for reasons stated by others. he was average to above average for 3 years, elite 1 and then he was in a great system. I would wait a year, see what he does this year, then try to get him if he continues this level in next years free agency, or trade if they franchise him again if a corner we get in the draft or whatever doesn't pan out.

[462skin]

My whole point was we would probably need to free up cap space to sign Samuel. We could do so by dumping Marshall and getting rid of Lloyd( I personally think he's a head case). Also NE LB corps isn't the youngest and Marshall is definitely serviceable, just thought it might sweeten the deal.

[helimech24]

IMO, we should just stay away. We have plenty of depth at the position this year, and the FO has done a good job of limiting themselves to spending useless money on players. If there is one position that should be in trade talks, it is D-linemen and that is it. All others should fall on deaf ears.

[skins111111]

Springs, Rogers, Smoot and now Maclin ...it looks like we're set at CB. now lets put some pressure on the QB to help these players out.

[skinsfan36]

i think the whole samuels thing is a smokescreen if even that,we ahve great depth in our secondary with
at corner-springs,smoot,rogers,macklin,jimoh,eubanks
at safety-taylor,stoutmire,doughty,fox,pp

we can draft 2-3 dlinemen this draft,with a blocking te,and mayble a young stub to groom at mlb(well its worth a try again)

[James F. Quinn]

This media hysteria every time Snyder picks up the phone, or mumbles something about a player in hear shot of a reporter is really distressing for us fans.

OTOH, if we can calm down, it might be fun watching Danny wandering up to Pastabelly and murmuring something about Gibbs wanting to start Brunell and trade Campbell, etc.

Oh what merriment would ensue!

[Warpath23]

Springs, Rogers, Smoot and now Maclin ...it looks like we're set at CB. now lets put some pressure on the QB to help these players out.

And there it is...No need to go after A Samuel when we need to pressure the QB. I say stay put & go after G. Adams if there

[NCskinsfanatic]

And there it is...No need to go after A Samuel when we need to pressure the QB. I say stay put & go after G. Adams if there
If we make this trade Springs won't be on the team IMO, I think we're fine as is and should continue to try to trade down...not up. If we can't take the best player available at #6 preferrably a DLineman like Anderson, Branch or Okoye.

[NFCEAST]

Hopefully a good pick up to help with depth.

[skinsfan36]

no to samuel i like our corners as they are now good depth the only thing i would add is another young safety

[urobm]

Here we go again, Asante Samuels a top tier CB. Would be a good addition, but an unecessary one. I would much prefer for us to draft a CB if the FO is not satisfied with our current situation. It doesnt matter if we go DE in the 1st round with a trade down that nets us a 3rd and use that on a CB (Damieyon Hughes) or vice versa, simply want us to develop our own talent. It ultimately will provide us with better youth and lot cheaper in old Danny's wallet.

[skinsfan36]

Here we go again, Asante Samuels a top tier CB. Would be a good addition, but an unecessary one. I would much prefer for us to draft a CB if the FO is not satisfied with our current situation. It doesnt matter if we go DE in the 1st round with a trade down that nets us a 3rd and use that on a CB (Damieyon Hughes) or vice versa, simply want us to develop our own talent. It ultimately will provide us with better youth and lot cheaper in old Danny's wallet.
daymeion hughes is a zone cb he is not very good in man coverage and that may be being nice

[santanadasavior]

If we were honestly considering trading down our pick to the Bears for Briggs, I don't see why we don't try to do the same here, and maybe throw in Springs for good measure. Samuel is a INT machine and he is a top 5 corner in the league. I would seriously consider this.

[chrisbcbu]

this could get very interesting. I would do this deal in a heartbeat.

Boston Herald (http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=193534&format=&page=2)

Landry on list?

The rumored trade with the Redskins, which would likely ship the 28th pick and Samuel to the ‘Skins for the sixth overall pick, might be out of character for the Patriots.

But it also could bring an impact player who’d be ready to start the opener on Sept. 9. His name is LaRon Landry.

With Rodney Harrison [stats]’s injury troubles over the past two years, the Pats have gone through long stretches without a premier safety for the first time since Lawyer Milloy joined the team in 1996. Landry could be the next one, a 6-foot-1, 213-pounder who ran a 4.35 at the combine and played his first two years at LSU under Belichick confidant Nick Saban.

Getting the sixth pick would move the Patriots ahead of the Falcons, who are eyeing Landry with their No. 8 pick. Of course, there’s a lot of projecting there, but it’s worth a thought. . .

[Miller Time]

that was what i was alluding to.. as expensive as clement was, samuel will get the same level of contract.

simply not worth it

That's what makes me think we won't do it...we weren't willing to pay for Clements. Then we picked up Smoot, which means our need for a premier corner is now diminished even more, so why in the world would we do this???

By the way, why are we pursuing all of these disgruntled and seemingly money hungry players? It seems very un-Gibbs-esque. Does Greg Williams really have this much power within the organization that he could pursue guys like Briggs and Samuels even though they don't seem like the type to buy into the Gibbs Doctrine?

[Biggie]

I gotta be honest; I like our CB situation how it is right now. Granted, I wouldn't mind picking up another vet on a one- or two-year contract, but a guy like Samuel is ridiculously expensive and not at all what we need. If Springs can give us half a season, we should be set, and with P.P. coming back, our DBs are ok if not great.

[skinfan43]

If we had Samuels/Springs/Rogers/Smoot as our Starter/Starter/Nickle/Dime corners, that would be SICK...use pick #28 on the best DE available and I'd be tickled burgundy;)
Don't forget, if our CB/LB situation is as solid as it seems it can be, GW can go back to using his blitzes CREATIVELY... and with another playmaker opposite Carter, I'd feel a helluva lot better about the much-needed pressure we need to put on opposing QB's again.

[NCskinsfanatic]

KFFL had these little blurbs about our latest franchised player of interest...

http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl

Patriots | Team talks trade with Redskins
Sun, 8 Apr 2007 11:54:32 -0700

Albert Breer, of the Boston Herald, reports the New England Patriots have been rumored to have been talking about a trade with the Washington Redskins, which would ship the Patriots 28th pick and CB Asante Samuel to the Redskins for the sixth overall pick. This would allow the Patriots to draft Louisiana State S LaRon Landry, an impact player who would be ready to start on the season opener.


Patriots | Samuel wants a deal on par with top cornerbacks
Sun, 8 Apr 2007 11:43:11 -0700

Albert Breer, of the Boston Herald, reports New England Patriots CB Asante Samuel want a long-term deal similar to San Francisco 49ers CB Nate Clements' deal, which was worth $80 million over eight years with a $22 million guarantee. He might be willing to come in under that, but he wants more than the $16 million guaranteed that Denver Broncos CB Dre' Bly received, since he is the No. 2 cornerback and is almost four years Samuel's senior.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

If we had Samuels/Springs/Rogers/Smoot as our Starter/Starter/Nickle/Dime corners, that would be SICK...use pick #28 on the best DE available and I'd be tickled burgundy;)
Don't forget, if our CB/LB situation is as solid as it seems it can be, GW can go back to using his blitzes CREATIVELY... and with another playmaker opposite Carter, I'd feel a helluva lot better about the much-needed pressure we need to put on opposing QB's again.
im thinking if samuels became a skin, we'd trade shawn springs. we cant have all that money tied up into two corners.

[WinnpegSkinsFan]

im thinking if samuels became a skin, we'd trade shawn springs. we cant have all that money tied up into two corners.

I agree. Though I think Samuels is overrated and not worth the deal Clements got, we would need to trade Springs (hopefully for a 3rd rounder). Too much $$$ at CB and not enough playing time for the 4 best corners on the roster if Springs is kept.

[skinsfan36]

do you actually think the patriots would do this deal though?

[SkinsfaninNJ]

im thinking if samuels became a skin, we'd trade shawn springs. we cant have all that money tied up into two corners.
Wouldn't we then take a big cap hit for the trade though? I can't see how we could take a Springs trade cap hit and sign Samuel to the deal he wants. If fact, I can't see how we can sign Samuel to the deal he wants period.

[redskin_rich]

Wouldn't we then take a big cap hit for the trade though? I can't see how we could take a Springs trade cap hit and sign Samuel to the deal he wants. If fact, I can't see how we can sign Samuel to the deal he wants period.
Springs has a cap number of close to $7.5 Million, whether he is on this team or not in '07. If he is released or traded after 6/1, there would be a savings of close to 2.5 Mil. We still have at least one of the two early exemptions but I don't know if that can be applied to a trade.

My source on this is the Aussie from CPND. His numbers are usually pretty accurate.

http://www.skinsfans.com/pcinoz/Cut_Trade_Savings.htm

[urobm]

daymeion hughes is a zone cb he is not very good in man coverage and that may be being nice


So you dont think we already have enough money already tied into the CB position. Not only that, but we are in pretty shape at the position as it stands now. Now, dont get me wrong Samuels could easily step in and be our #1 CB, but we dont necessarily need him. Now I would happy with one more CB to add even more dept (FA, or preferebly rookie), but a high priced superstar is not needed at that position for us.

[Red Bear]

Springs has a cap number of close to $7.5 Million, whether he is on this team or not in '07. If he is released or traded after 6/1, there would be a savings of close to 2.5 Mil. We still have at least one of the two early exemptions but I don't know if that can be applied to a trade.

My source on this is the Aussie from CPND. His numbers are usually pretty accurate.

http://www.skinsfans.com/pcinoz/Cut_Trade_Savings.htm

the exemption can be applied to a trade, but you still dont get that cap savings until june 1st actually rolls around.

[Redskin4Life]

Hey guys, why are we still talking about trading Springs... it just can't happen. He was owed his roster bonus on April 1st. I haven't read anything saying that he moved it or anything like that so I'm assuming he got paid. If that's the case, there's no way we have the cap space to trade him or cut him this year.... we need the cap space for our draft picks.

Say NO to Samuels.

[PennSkinsFan]

Seems like it would be a steal for the Skins, for both 28 and Samuels for 6th. BUT I don't want to see that size contract. We simply don't need to be a big spender this season. If were gonna trade otu of 6, then lets trade for more draft picks.

[CNYSkinFan]

The only way I see this trade happening (And I for one am against it for the same reason I was against nBriggs trade ie we are stocked at the position and the player upgrade is not worht the drop in picks without an additioional pick coming back) is if Springs is being moved to Safety. I just dont see it happening otherwise.

[Skinz4lyfe]

KFFL had these little blurbs about our latest franchised player of interest...

Patriots | Team talks trade with Redskins
Sun, 8 Apr 2007 11:54:32 -0700

Albert Breer, of the Boston Herald, reports the New England Patriots have been rumored to have been talking about a trade with the Washington Redskins, which would ship the Patriots 28th pick and CB Asante Samuel to the Redskins for the sixth overall pick. This would allow the Patriots to draft Louisiana State S LaRon Landry, an impact player who would be ready to start on the season opener.


Patriots | Samuel wants a deal on par with top cornerbacks
Sun, 8 Apr 2007 11:43:11 -0700

Albert Breer, of the Boston Herald, reports New England Patriots CB Asante Samuel want a long-term deal similar to San Francisco 49ers CB Nate Clements' deal, which was worth $80 million over eight years with a $22 million guarantee. He might be willing to come in under that, but he wants more than the $16 million guaranteed that Denver Broncos CB Dre' Bly received, since he is the No. 2 cornerback and is almost four years Samuel's senior.

http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl

It was only a matter of time. Geez! Someone talks money and the Redskins are rumored to be interested or something like that. Didn't we just sign Smoot and Macklin? I think we've upgraded our secondary enough. Believe me, I really don't wanna see this happen because of the salary implications.

[firehawk157]

The only way I see this trade happening (And I for one am against it for the same reason I was against nBriggs trade ie we are stocked at the position and the player upgrade is not worht the drop in picks without an additioional pick coming back) is if Springs is being moved to Safety. I just dont see it happening otherwise.

Even then, that's an insane amount of money in the secondary. We're talking probably $20 mil in the 07 cap for the secondary alone.

[greatest2]

wow, that would make a crazy secondary, with alot of money tied up. But if we do this deal, we don't have to worry about corner in the draft, and go straight to dline and a oline depth.

If this trade happens, Springs hopefully will be off the books next year (when we cut or trade him). Carlos and Samuel are both real young, and can man the position for years to come, and smoot is only 27. Hopefully, if macklin does well we can resign him for multi-years (hometeam discount?). even if we can't, we can finda decent number 4.

If this deal goes through, we would have alot of money tied up in our secondary this year, but some of that money would come off with letting springs go next year. For the future i say do this deal, for the present i say its tough on the cap

[JsMaViSd]

wow, that would make a crazy secondary, with alot of money tied up. But if we do this deal, we don't have to worry about corner in the draft, and go straight to dline and a oline depth.

If this trade happens, Springs hopefully will be off the books next year (when we cut or trade him). Carlos and Samuel are both real young, and can man the position for years to come, and smoot is only 27. Hopefully, if macklin does well we can resign him for multi-years (hometeam discount?). even if we can't, we can finda decent number 4.

If this deal goes through, we would have alot of money tied up in our secondary this year, but some of that money would come off with letting springs go next year. For the future i say do this deal, for the present i say its tough on the cap

not even for the future is this a good idea. He would get paid, get hurt, and then we'd be stuck with him, like we are with Springs

i say NO. Go into the season with the secondary we have now, draft Okoya and call it a day

[GreenspanDan]

i can't believe people are actually satisfied with our current roster at CB! first, we have springs who is not only old but injury prone. we'll be lucky to get 5 decent games out of him. next we have carlos rogers, who has been been very inconsistent in all phases of his game, except for catching easy interceptions, where he's been consistently atrocious. finally, we have fred smoot who played well for us before, but did not play very well in minnesota. here we're banking on a comeback, which in the NFL is never a good bet. as far as i can tell, we don't have a single CB without a big question mark over his head. (is it wrong that that sentence makes me think of world of warcraft? ok nevermind)

anyway, getting two defensive players for one draft pick continues to look like a great deal to me, and one that we desperately need to make. we can't trade springs, but i am perfectly fine with cutting him in favor of samuel, who is younger and sturdier. samuel's peak skills might not match springs', but we are extremely unlikely to see springs at his peak ever again.

unless we make another significant upgrade at cornerback (and i don't mean another team's throwaway), we will be stuck in much the same position we were last season, defensively.

[AliBabba]

i can't believe people are actually satisfied with our current roster at CB! first, we have springs who is not only old but injury prone. we'll be lucky to get 5 decent games out of him. next we have carlos rogers, who has been been very inconsistent in all phases of his game, except for catching easy interceptions, where he's been consistently atrocious. finally, we have fred smoot who played well for us before, but did not play very well in minnesota. here we're banking on a comeback, which in the NFL is never a good bet. as far as i can tell, we don't have a single CB without a big question mark over his head. (is it wrong that that sentence makes me think of world of warcraft? ok nevermind)

anyway, getting two defensive players for one draft pick continues to look like a great deal to me, and one that we desperately need to make. we can't trade springs, but i am perfectly fine with cutting him in favor of samuel, who is younger and sturdier. samuel's peak skills might not match springs', but we are extremely unlikely to see springs at his peak ever again.

unless we make another significant upgrade at cornerback (and i don't mean another team's throwaway), we will be stuck in much the same position we were last season, defensively.
you are perfectly ok with cutting springs? he's worth a midround pick and that would cost us 7M+ in cap penalties, so I am not.

I think the idea of bringing Samuel in is horrible. The guy had a great year last year, 10 picks. And a good postseason too. What has he done before that? I see people in this thread saying they are cool with this move who were strongly opposed to bringing Briggs a proven commodity in.

Samuels before last year had 6 INTs in his career as a starter. That doesn't impress me one bit. For the kind of grip he's gonna demand you are gonna have to prove yourself a lot more than one 18 game stretch to me. PASS.

[greatest2]

you are perfectly ok with cutting springs? he's worth a midround pick and that would cost us 7M+ in cap penalties, so I am not.

I think the idea of bringing Samuel in is horrible. The guy had a great year last year, 10 picks. And a good postseason too. What has he done before that? I see people in this thread saying they are cool with this move who were strongly opposed to bringing Briggs a proven commodity in.

Samuels before last year had 6 INTs in his career as a starter. That doesn't impress me one bit. For the kind of grip he's gonna demand you are gonna have to prove yourself a lot more than one 18 game stretch to me. PASS.

only problem i had with bringing him in is that we are overloaded at LB, are we at corner? do we have players there that satisfy you?

[462skin]

Move Springs to safety!!!!! It would be an easier position injury wise and he's plenty fast enough. Samuel punked Manning everytime they played last year...that has to count for something.

[skinsfan36]

i dont think that this trade is even possible having springs,and with our cap space. im waiting for the saints trade up with charles grant,their first rumor next.

[firehawk157]

i dont think that this trade is even possible having springs,and with our cap space. im waiting for the saints trade up with charles grant,their first rumor next.
Sorry for my stupidity, who's Charles Grant?

[NCskinsfanatic]

Sorry for my stupidity, who's Charles Grant?
Pretty decent DE for the NO Saints...
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302196

[lpunder414]

i can't believe people are actually satisfied with our current roster at CB! first, we have springs who is not only old but injury prone. we'll be lucky to get 5 decent games out of him. next we have carlos rogers, who has been been very inconsistent in all phases of his game, except for catching easy interceptions, where he's been consistently atrocious. finally, we have fred smoot who played well for us before, but did not play very well in minnesota. here we're banking on a comeback, which in the NFL is never a good bet. as far as i can tell, we don't have a single CB without a big question mark over his head. (is it wrong that that sentence makes me think of world of warcraft? ok nevermind)

anyway, getting two defensive players for one draft pick continues to look like a great deal to me, and one that we desperately need to make. we can't trade springs, but i am perfectly fine with cutting him in favor of samuel, who is younger and sturdier. samuel's peak skills might not match springs', but we are extremely unlikely to see springs at his peak ever again.

unless we make another significant upgrade at cornerback (and i don't mean another team's throwaway), we will be stuck in much the same position we were last season, defensively.

I couldnt agree anymore, if Springs goes down were left with two mediocre starters in Smoot and Rogers. Being ranked at the bottom of the league in turnovers doesnt necessarily help Rogers either seeing that he couldnt catch even if his life depended on it.

[PA Skins Girl]

Shawn Springs counts roughly $7.5 million against the cap in 2007 and $7.5 million against the cap in 2008. Coincidentally, he counts roughly $7.5 million against the cap if cut or traded. If cut/traded after June 1, he would count $2.5 million against the cap in 2007 (a $5 million savings), and $5 million against the cap in 2008 (a $2.5 million savings).

I’m not advocating cutting or trading him. One, because I like him and I think he is still a very good player. Two, because dead money is not good business.

[AliBabba]

only problem i had with bringing him in is that we are overloaded at LB, are we at corner? do we have players there that satisfy you?
I wouldn't say I am ecstatic about our corners but yes, I am satisfied. I don't think Samuels is enough of an improvement to warrant the cost. Briggs I think would have been.

[AliBabba]

Shawn Springs counts roughly $7.5 million against the cap in 2007 and $7.5 million against the cap in 2008. Coincidentally, he counts roughly $7.5 million against the cap if cut or traded. If cut/traded after June 1, he would count $2.5 million against the cap in 2007 (a $5 million savings), and $5 million against the cap in 2008 (a $2.5 million savings).

I’m not advocating cutting or trading him. One, because I like him and I think he is still a very good player. Two, because dead money is not good business.
Thanks for the numbers. I thought it was about that. All the more reason to stick with the guy - at least for now.

And although I agree that dead money is not good business, recently it has been our business. Hopefully another offseason trend we continue to buck this year.

[Skinz4lyfe]

I wouldn't say I am ecstatic about our corners but yes, I am satisfied. I don't think Samuels is enough of an improvement to warrant the cost. Briggs I think would have been..

That's just it. Samuel's already said that he wants to get paid an enormous amount of money (reportedly similar to Clemens deal w/SF). I think I'll take my chances w/Springs, Smoot, and Rogers. Even if Springs get's injured we'll be in better shape than last year. That's why I think it's important for us to get help on the D-line. If we can improve there, we can do alright on defense because we've already upgraded our LBs by getting Fletcher to play middle and by not re-signing Holdman. However, getting Briggs would be a significant upgrade over McIntosh or Marshall. And based on the going rate of LBs and CBs, he would come at a fraction of the cost. We don't need either Samuels or Briggs but if I were forced to take a trade I would do the Briggs trade over trading for Samuels.

[Red Bear]

Shawn Springs counts roughly $7.5 million against the cap in 2007 and $7.5 million against the cap in 2008. Coincidentally, he counts roughly $7.5 million against the cap if cut or traded. If cut/traded after June 1, he would count $2.5 million against the cap in 2007 (a $5 million savings), and $5 million against the cap in 2008 (a $2.5 million savings).

I’m not advocating cutting or trading him. One, because I like him and I think he is still a very good player. Two, because dead money is not good business.

wow, i havent seen you in awhile. it seems youre surrounded by hills where ever you go, from camp hill to fountain hills. welcome back.

and i agree springs is still a very good player. just cant seem to stay healthy, especially last season

[PA Skins Girl]

wow, i havent seen you in awhile. it seems youre surrounded by hills where ever you go, from camp hill to fountain hills. welcome back.

and i agree springs is still a very good player. just cant seem to stay healthy, especially last season
Ha! That's pretty good. I hadnt thought of it that way. The hills here are a bit more impressive!

I've been somewhat preoccupied, but now that I'm settled in, can chime in a little more. The time difference puts me at a disadvantage also.

[shally]

Ha! That's pretty good. I hadnt thought of it that way. The hills here are a bit more impressive!

I've been somewhat preoccupied, but now that I'm settled in, can chime in a little more. The time difference puts me at a disadvantage also.

learn to love the pacific time zone..

besides, there are a couple of us who are usually lurking here late at night

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

Shawn Springs counts roughly $7.5 million against the cap in 2007 and $7.5 million against the cap in 2008. Coincidentally, he counts roughly $7.5 million against the cap if cut or traded. If cut/traded after June 1, he would count $2.5 million against the cap in 2007 (a $5 million savings), and $5 million against the cap in 2008 (a $2.5 million savings).

I’m not advocating cutting or trading him. One, because I like him and I think he is still a very good player. Two, because dead money is not good business.
hey! good to see you around M.A.! thanks for the numbers.....

i like shawn springs as a player as well, when healthy.....and staying healthy has been his problem. i think trading him on draft day could come into play, but looking at those numbers, it wouldnt make since to do it before june 1st.

[PA Skins Girl]

learn to love the pacific time zone..

besides, there are a couple of us who are usually lurking here late at night
I dont think I'll ever get used to being 3 hours earlier than the east coast. Just weird having basketball and baseball games start at 4:00 instead of 7:00. By the time I check in, the games are over.

I'll be lovin draft day though.

[PA Skins Girl]

hey! good to see you around M.A.! thanks for the numbers.....

i like shawn springs as a player as well, when healthy.....and staying healthy has been his problem. i think trading him on draft day could come into play, but looking at those numbers, it wouldnt make since to do it before june 1st.
Thanks Lady!

It's true, Shawn had a rough season last year with injuries. And he's getting up there in years. When healthy the two years prior, he was our top cover corner and a big reason we were a top defense. His absense last year was brutal on our defense.

[urobm]

Seems like it would be a steal for the Skins, for both 28 and Samuels for 6th. BUT I don't want to see that size contract. We simply don't need to be a big spender this season. If were gonna trade otu of 6, then lets trade for more draft picks.


That would be the smart thing, but you know we always have to make the big splash.

[joethefan]

That would be the smart thing, but you know we always have to make the big splash.

I would make that trade in a minute even though we need help on the dline....IMO it's better to get a guy that is proven then to get a youngin that you'll have a ? about in the draft esp if you have a habit of not really wanting to coach a guy. You want a guy to come in and be GW ready in one one week...which IMO isn't right...

[Redskin4Life]

I would make that trade in a minute even though we need help on the dline....IMO it's better to get a guy that is proven then to get a youngin that you'll have a ? about in the draft esp if you have a habit of not really wanting to coach a guy. You want a guy to come in and be GW ready in one one week...which IMO isn't right...
JTF,

Samuels averaged 41 tackles, 0 sacks, 2 Ints and 1 FF in his first three years (in fact his numbers are close to Rogers first two years). Just this past offseason, he had 64 tackles and 11 forced turnovers (10 Ints and a FF). To me, his stats show that either he had a fluke year or he played amazingly in his contract year. Samuels is a playmaker but if we pay him what he's asking for, we would be getting him based on his POTENTIAL and not by his proven numbers, IMO.

Briggs, on the otherhand, has consistently put up numbers that would be worthy of the money that's being reported for him. Like some of the other posters have said, I'm not in favor of getting either guy but if I had to pick one, I'd take Briggs over Samuels.

[hockeygoalie29]

JTF,

Samuels averaged 41 tackles, 0 sacks, 2 Ints and 1 FF in his first three years (in fact his numbers are close to Rogers first two years). Just this past offseason, he had 64 tackles and 11 forced turnovers (10 Ints and a FF). To me, his stats show that either he had a fluke year or he played amazingly in his contract year. Samuels is a playmaker but if we pay him what he's asking for, we would be getting him based on his POTENTIAL and not by his proven numbers, IMO.

Averaging his first 3 seasons numbers is not a fair comparison. You also have to consider that Samuel wasn't a starter until his 3rd season. He started his career as a 4th round pick and was playing behind Tyrone Poole and Ty Law. Even then, he still had 11 passes defended in 2004 as the nickel back.

In 2005, when he became a full-time starter, he had 54 tackles, 3 INT's, and 13 passes defended. He then increased those numbers to 64 tackles, 10 INT's, and 14 passes defended in 2006. So in his two years as a starter he has put together two very solid seasons.

[Redskin4Life]

Averaging his first 3 seasons numbers is not a fair comparison. You also have to consider that Samuel wasn't a starter until his 3rd season. He started his career as a 4th round pick and was playing behind Tyrone Poole and Ty Law. Even then, he still had 11 passes defended in 2004 as the nickel back.

In 2005, when he became a full-time starter, he had 54 tackles, 3 INT's, and 13 passes defended. He then increased those numbers to 64 tackles, 10 INT's, and 14 passes defended in 2006. So in his two years as a starter he has put together two very solid seasons.
But Rogers had as good as season this past year as Samuels '05 statistically speaking (I didn't watch every NE game so I don't know if Samuels had INTs that he dropped or played better than his stats showed). And Rogers has been a pro for only 2 yrs.

I think it's a big risk to take Samuels since, to be fair, he had ONE amazing season and a couple of average ones. Especially for the money he's asking for...

[skinfan43]

Before worrying about what signing Samuel (to a roughly $20million guaranteed contract) would do to our cap if we signed him AND kept Springs this year, someone send an Email to the Skins Cap Wizard Eric Shaffer and ask HIM if it would be OK...if the Skins do the deal, AND keep Springs, I'm confident it will have been well thought out, at least MONEY-WISE,to do so. Shaffer is a cap geniu$, WAY more than any of us are.
Man, if Rogers truly improves after his supposedly intense offseason learning AND we can sign a young #1 corner, that would be something I never would have thought possible during this offseason. At least Smoot should want to push Carlos, right? Move Springs to safety, add a quality young DE in the draft at either #6 or from trading down to get another higher round pick (to use on a young DT, IMO) and that would be fantastic, IMO.

[Red Bear]

But Rogers had as good as season this past year as Samuels '05 statistically speaking (I didn't watch every NE game so I don't know if Samuels had INTs that he dropped or played better than his stats showed). And Rogers has been a pro for only 2 yrs.

I think it's a big risk to take Samuels since, to be fair, he had ONE amazing season and a couple of average ones. Especially for the money he's asking for...

you fail to mention plenty of times rogers was in position to make plays. he could of had atleast 7 interceptions last season if he could catch the ball. i say lets stick with our young corner in rogers and see if he turns into one of these 10 interception guys

[skinsfan36]

you fail to mention plenty of times rogers was in position to make plays. he could of had atleast 7 interceptions last season if he could catch the ball. i say lets stick with our young corner in rogers and see if he turns into one of these 10 interception guys
i agree

[OCSkinzFan]

you fail to mention plenty of times rogers was in position to make plays. he could of had atleast 7 interceptions last season if he could catch the ball. i say lets stick with our young corner in rogers and see if he turns into one of these 10 interception guys
Rogers would not even be a starter based on his '06 season for most teams in the NFL. He had 2 ints in '05 and 1 in '06, he will never be a 10 int guy. He only had 7 ints in his whole college career.

[chrisbcbu]

Rogers would not even be a starter based on his '06 season for most teams in the NFL. He had 2 ints in '05 and 1 in '06, he will never be a 10 int guy. He only had 7 ints in his whole college career.

Im sorry but i will have to disagree with this. I think he would be starter on at least 80% and would even be some #1 corner. CB stats are not base solely on INTs. He was in position to make lots of game changing plays, he was just unable to hold onto the ball.

He did get beat deep for some TDs but i think it had alot to do with no safety help over the top.

Its tough to bring up college stats with him because everyone stayed away from his side of the field. he was a great college corner. And i think if he can hold onto the ball he will be a great pro.

Heck look at Champ. He gets beat deep alot but since he makes alot of INTs he is the greatest CB in the game today.

[OCSkinzFan]

Im sorry but i will have to disagree with this. I think he would be starter on at least 80% and would even be some #1 corner. CB stats are not base solely on INTs. He was in position to make lots of game changing plays, he was just unable to hold onto the ball.

He did get beat deep for some TDs but i think it had alot to do with no safety help over the top.

Its tough to bring up college stats with him because everyone stayed away from his side of the field. he was a great college corner. And i think if he can hold onto the ball he will be a great pro.

Heck look at Champ. He gets beat deep alot but since he makes alot of INTs he is the greatest CB in the game today.

First off, Rogers isn't even the Skins #1 CB except because of injury. Last year he showed us why.

His bad year was only partly because of dropped INTs. He didn't get beat that much deep because he played with a cushion bigger than the princess with the pea; (which he did in college too) which is why he got beat short last year ALL the time.

As I said, Based on last year, he wouldn't be a starter for a lot of teams.

And don't even mention Champ and Rogers in the same breath. Champ is probably going to end up in the HOF and Rogers might not even start for us next year. Do you realize that? It is a real possibility that we might have Springs and Smoot as our #1 and #2.

And don't say that Smoot's too old either: Smoot was born in '79 even though he has 6 years in the NFL. Rogers was born in '81 and has only 2 NFL seasons.

All that being said, Rogers needs to bounce back to his rookie form if this D is going to be good against the pass. Hopefully he will.

[bwparker]

First off, Rogers isn't even the Skins #1 CB except because of injury. Last year he showed us why.

His bad year was only partly because of dropped INTs. He didn't get beat that much deep because he played with a cushion bigger than the princess with the pea; (which he did in college too) which is why he got beat short last year ALL the time.

As I said, Based on last year, he wouldn't be a starter for a lot of teams.

And don't even mention Champ and Rogers in the same breath. Champ is probably going to end up in the HOF and Rogers might not even start for us next year. Do you realize that? It is a real possibility that we might have Springs and Smoot as our #1 and #2.

And don't say that Smoot's too old either: Smoot was born in '79 even though he has 6 years in the NFL. Rogers was born in '81 and has only 2 NFL seasons.

All that being said, Rogers needs to bounce back to his rookie form if this D is going to be good against the pass. Hopefully he will.

How much of a cushion he gives pre-snap is entirely determined by the coaches, IMO. If they feel that his cushion is causing problems its not a big change to say...get closer to the receiver. Thats not a decision made in the heat of the play or anything, thats purely where you set your chess pieces. If his cushion was too big (which I agree it was) that was a strategic decision made by GW and co.

Now if they made that decision because he is incapable of pressing the CB, we are in trouble because there is no good reason a top 10 (draft pick) CB shouldn't be able to jam a reciever at the line with at least moderate success.

[bgforever]

Whoever the nickel back is, will get a serious challenge from Macklin, because he's started before, and that taste in your mouth (if you're competitive like him), doesn't go away. Since Smoot and Rogers have done this also, I have to give the nod to Smoot to win out over the other two. Rogers however, I believe bounces back and sharing the load is his strong suit, as Rogers will find out as well. Nothing wrong with it, but Rogers was HIGH pick in the draft and one solid yr only would really suck.

[OCSkinzFan]

How much of a cushion he gives pre-snap is entirely determined by the coaches, IMO. If they feel that his cushion is causing problems its not a big change to say...get closer to the receiver. Thats not a decision made in the heat of the play or anything, thats purely where you set your chess pieces. If his cushion was too big (which I agree it was) that was a strategic decision made by GW and co.No. Frequently CB's in the NFL (and every league) cheat back and give a bigger cushion than they're supposed to, for fear of getting burned. It's not like the coach was going to pull Rogers out of the game and let Archuletta play CB for a series to teach Rogers to listen when the coach says "4 yard cushion." If you go to games, sometimes you can see the coaches gesturing for players to play tighter etc.

Now if they made that decision because he is incapable of pressing the CB, we are in trouble because there is no good reason a top 10 (draft pick) CB shouldn't be able to jam a reciever at the line with at least moderate success.
Here, you are correct. I think it is a problem. Which is why Smoot and Macklin (both with extencive starting experience) have been brought in. If they don't start ahead of Rogers (they probably won't) at least they will be able to push Rogers. In other words, now GW can say, "If you keep playing that **SENSORED** soft I'll sit your **SENSORED** butt on the bench and let Smoot play!!" and he can mean it this year.

[Redskin4Life]

No. Frequently CB's in the NFL (and every league) cheat back and give a bigger cushion than they're supposed to, for fear of getting burned. It's not like the coach was going to pull Rogers out of the game and let Archuletta play CB for a series to teach Rogers to listen when the coach says "4 yard cushion." If you go to games, sometimes you can see the coaches gesturing for players to play tighter etc.

Here, you are correct. I think it is a problem. Which is why Smoot and Macklin (both with extencive starting experience) have been brought in. If they don't start ahead of Rogers (they probably won't) at least they will be able to push Rogers. In other words, now GW can say, "If you keep playing that **SENSORED** soft I'll sit your **SENSORED** butt on the bench and let Smoot play!!" and he can mean it this year.
I'm going to have to agree with BWP on this one. If the cushion wasn't schemed, why did Springs and Smoot have the same 3-5 yard cushion when they were on the field for the Skins. And why wouldn't the coaching staff correct this problem after the game, if not during?

Thinking that GW isn't telling these guys to play this way and isn't taking them off the field cause we don't have better replacements is ridiculous. Rogers didn't fix this "problem" because the coaching staff didn't see it as one. They coached them to play that way... and bump and run is not in our scheme.

[Redskin4Life]

And for the record, I'm still against bringing in Samuels.

[bergiemoore]

I'm going to have to agree with BWP on this one. If the cushion wasn't schemed, why did Springs and Smoot have the same 3-5 yard cushion when they were on the field for the Skins. And why wouldn't the coaching staff correct this problem after the game, if not during?

Thinking that GW isn't telling these guys to play this way and isn't taking them off the field cause we don't have better replacements is ridiculous. Rogers didn't fix this "problem" because the coaching staff didn't see it as one. They coached them to play that way... and bump and run is not in our scheme.

You're right on here. Bump and run only works when you can get safety help over the top. GW likes to leave the CB's on an island. One of the safeties is normally inside the box, anyway.

[OCSkinzFan]

You're right on here. Bump and run only works when you can get safety help over the top. GW likes to leave the CB's on an island. One of the safeties is normally inside the box, anyway.
GW has more than one pass coverage scheme. I'm sure that one of them includes the bump and run. You know why?
Because I saw it! :rolleyes:

What you are attempting to point out is that the bump and run is not GW's base package.

[OCSkinzFan]

I'm going to have to agree with BWP on this one. If the cushion wasn't schemed, why did Springs and Smoot have the same 3-5 yard cushion when they were on the field for the Skins. And why wouldn't the coaching staff correct this problem after the game, if not during?

Thinking that GW isn't telling these guys to play this way and isn't taking them off the field cause we don't have better replacements is ridiculous. Rogers didn't fix this "problem" because the coaching staff didn't see it as one. They coached them to play that way... and bump and run is not in our scheme.
Sometimes a big cushion is schemed and GW's D does play with 3 to 5 but sometimes Rogers does cheat back and give up too much (like 8 to 10).

And...

Are you trying to say that cornerbacks don't cheat back sometimes and give a bigger cushion than they're supposed to?

And you don't think Rogers did that (a lot) last year?

And you don't think that he's done it (a lot) in the past?

And you do think that every "problem" on GW's D was fixed last year?

And you also think that GW "coached them" to play the way they did last year? Mistakes weren't made?

And you don't think that other Cb's were brought in to "push" Rogers?

Oh, by the way, here's an old scouting report that mentions that Rogers plays with "too much cushion." But I guess his College coach told him to do it back then too. So the scouts must have just been picking on him :rolleyes:
...he would struggle in off coverage and give up too much cushion on the ball.NFL Draft .com (http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/rogers_carlos)

[OCSkinzFan]

Here's what Rogers has to say on the subject:

He tends to disagree with me, but I seriously doubt that he's EVER going to say, "Yea dude, I play back off the ball all the time! It drives the coaches CRAZY! But it's not like I'm gonna let some fool make SportsCenter beatin ME deep!"

Carlos,

Where you line up on defensive seems to put you at a disadvantage by you being so far off of the line of scrimmage, is this where Coach Williams wants you to lineup or is it more of your own comfort level?

Carlos Rogers

Quote:
At different times it’s more of our scheme…certain calls we have that we have to play at a certain distance. A lot of times it’s to not to give up a deep ball, it’s to make the opponent catch the ball in front of us and make the tackle. At different calls we get I line up at different positions.

Follow up

How much is scheme and how much is coaching?

Carlos Rogers

Quote:
I think it works hand in hand. (You) scheme up certain things whether it’s a blitz or just a certain coverage. Our coaching of it is we had a big problem with giving up deep balls and balls getting behind us. It’s more of not giving up the deep ball because that can beat us faster than giving up little five or six yard catches.

[OCSkinzFan]

The Sporting News agrees with me:


The question mark at cornerback is Carlos Rogers. After a good rookie season, Rogers' performance dropped off last year. He gave too much cushion and, at times, appeared to have lost confidence. Rogers needs to be brought back mentally, which will enhance his physical performance. . . . sportingnews.com (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/teams/redskins/index.html)