Bailey/Redskisn agree to tabel talks....

[PennSkinsFan]

Bye Champ! Your tagged

Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A11254-2003Sep1.html)

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Honestly, my mind has shifted to if we can resign Champ to who'd be willing to give up two firsts for him..... Sad. What a loss.

[dj_stouty]

That would suck....BUT...here's the bright side if that happens.

A. Champ plays his heart out this year and even elevates his game enough to influence some wins. (a few game winning INTs would do the trick)

B. We get one or two first round draft picks out of him. At least this way, us Skins fans can actually tune into the first 6 hours of the NFL draft, since we will would actually have picks then.

C. The Media stops saying the Skins are in "cap hell" since we didn't resign a guy for 18 million.

I'd hate to see Champ go...but if he wants out of town, and the Skins can't afford his asking price, then we should start getting used to the idea.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

A and B are nice. C won't happen, especially with two first rounders. I can just hear it now.... "Washington has two first-roundselections in this year's draft, which obviously shows their front office's poor decision-making and will yeild years of salary cap problems in the near future."

[PennSkinsFan]

Originally posted by dj_stouty
That would suck....BUT...here's the bright side if that happens.

A. Champ plays his heart out this year and even elevates his game enough to influence some wins. (a few game winning INTs would do the trick)

B. We get one or two first round draft picks out of him. At least this way, us Skins fans can actually tune into the first 6 hours of the NFL draft, since we will would actually have picks then.

C. The Media stops saying the Skins are in "cap hell" since we didn't resign a guy for 18 million.

I'd hate to see Champ go...but if he wants out of town, and the Skins can't afford his asking price, then we should start getting used to the idea.

Good post DJ. My sentiments exactly.

[truant]

I love Champ, but i agree with the posts here. The team is doing everything it can, and if he doesn't want to be here, we'll shake his hand and take two first round picks. I'd hate to see him go, but it's up to him.

BUT... if you get a top shelf corner in the draft to replace Champ, look at the 13 mill bonus that Newman got. That's huge money for a rook. So if we take a top corner in the draft, we'll probably still be paying a large amount of cash.

[CarMike]

I see the Redskins resigning Smoot now. And then draft another CB to replace Champ. Or let Bauman replace Champ.

[Hailyeah]

At this point, I believe Champ's decision to resign or not hinges on how the team performs. If we make the playoffs or are damn close with fairly good vibes surrounding the situation, Champ will come back. However, if the team struggles and the same old nonsense reshuffling and potential coaching changes are strongly rumored, he'll leave out of sheer frustration. I don't believe this is the end of the road. Go ahead and brand me an optimist on this one.

[ShaggySkins]

I'd like to see us franchise him and get 2 first rounders for him. I know thats not the popular decison especially when its one of the best defenders in the league. But were going to be in cap hell and have a lot of tough personnel decisons to make. A handful of first rounders could keep the team from taking a bigger fall then its already heading towards.

[Hailyeah]

Originally posted by ShaggySkins
A handful of first rounders could keep the team from taking a bigger fall then its already heading towards.

A) Maybe I'm wildly optimistic compared to some then. I'm not foreseeing a major 'fall'. We're going to start this party off by mauling the Jets on Thursday night. Right people?

B) Depends on what they do with these first rounders. Bobby Wilson and Heath Shuler anyone? The draft is a crapshoot, Champ is not.

[truant]

Good God Hailyeah...

Drop Bobby Wilson and Heath into any post and I think you'll disgust anyone into siding with you... how can you argue that!!!

:D

[RichardBradley]

I love Champ he is my favirote redskin but he is not irreplacable..

[dj_stouty]

Originally posted by CarMike
Or let Bauman replace Champ.

Ding, Ding, Ding!

Here is a concept we haven't though of yet. If Bauman plays this regular with the intensity he showed in the preseason, he could easily be a solid CB in the NFL.

[Green-Is-Good]

What if we win a SB this year. Would Champ be willing to take a pay cut then?

[skinswin'emALL]

Originally posted by Hailyeah
At this point, I believe Champ's decision to resign or not hinges on how the team performs. If we make the playoffs or are damn close with fairly good vibes surrounding the situation, Champ will come back. However, if the team struggles and the same old nonsense reshuffling and potential coaching changes are strongly rumored, he'll leave out of sheer frustration. I don't believe this is the end of the road. Go ahead and brand me an optimist on this one.

I tend to agree......Champ doesn't want to stay if the team continues to look disfuctional to him (unless we give him 19 mill signing bonus). He knows other bad teams will pay him crazy money and he wants crazy money to play on what he condiders a non contending or disfuctional team.

However, I believe that if the Skins contend and make the playoffs or more;) then he will be more willing to "play for less" (I can't believe I said "less" when referring to a 14 mil sign bonus):confused:

Other players have re-structured there contracts because they believe in what Snyder and Co. are doing.....I don't think Champ is..............YET!

[Hailyeah]

Originally posted by truant
Good God Hailyeah...

Drop Bobby Wilson and Heath into any post and I think you'll disgust anyone into siding with you... how can you argue that!!!

:D

I wish I would have known that earlier. Wonder if I can weave those two idiots into my continual 'Betts is the bomb' argument and get some converts? Its worth a try. :cool:

[hail2skins]

2 first rounders would be dangerous in our FO's hands. I can really see them trading one for somebody. Are there any good CB's in the 2004 draft?

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by dj_stouty
Ding, Ding, Ding!

Here is a concept we haven't though of yet. If Bauman plays this regular with the intensity he showed in the preseason, he could easily be a solid CB in the NFL.

Actually I proposed this idea months ago and I was mildly ripped for it.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

You were? I don't see why, Bauman seems like a good corner to me.

[dj_stouty]

Originally posted by hail2skins
2 first rounders would be dangerous in our FO's hands. I can really see them trading one for somebody. Are there any good CB's in the 2004 draft?

Make that THREE 1st rounders since the Redskins would already have their original 1st round draft pick.

[EVEN MORE DANGEROUS]

[PennSkinsFan]

Originally posted by dj_stouty
Make that THREE 1st rounders since the Redskins would already have their original 1st round draft pick.

[EVEN MORE DANGEROUS]

and in that regard, three first rounders......that woudl be more expensive than resigning Champ.

[PennSkinsFan]

But at this point just for future thinking needs, if we had the three first rounders, i woudl use them on:

1. Safety. lets solve this damn problem and get a quick hard hitter.

2. OT. We need to think about the future and the future may be that we can not afford Samuels and Arrington. Considering the fact that Arrington sells tickets, i woudl bet he woudl be the priority.

3. DE. Time ot get a reaql, honest to God, pass rusher.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Originally posted by PennSkinsFan
But at this point just for future thinking needs, if we had the three first rounders, i woudl use them on:

1. Safety. lets solve this damn problem and get a quick hard hitter.

2. OT. We need to think about the future and the future may be that we can not afford Samuels and Arrington. Considering the fact that Arrington sells tickets, i woudl bet he woudl be the priority.

3. DE. Time ot get a reaql, honest to God, pass rusher.

I don't know about #1 PSF. I think Ohalete will play more under control this year as he understands more about the defense and has a better safety next to him. This will be the best combination of safties we have had since Edwards/Copeland in 1991.

You know how it goes with safties in the draft, I hear Doss isn't setting the world on fire with the Dolts, I mean Colts.

[Skins57]

Thing is guys the 2 first rounders would likely be 2004 and 2005 and not in hte same draft

[Patrick]

Think a second guys - Really what teams are going to give up 2 first rounders for a DB. IMO - None.
Sure there are teams in need of good DBs, but NOT for THAT price.
I wouldn't worry about the 2 or 3 first round problem - BESIDES, we can't afford 2 first rounders and would trade down for more picks in the later rounds.

[dj_stouty]

Originally posted by Patrick
Think a second guys - Really what teams are going to give up 2 first rounders for a DB. IMO - None.
Sure there are teams in need of good DBs, but NOT for THAT price.
I wouldn't worry about the 2 or 3 first round problem - BESIDES, we can't afford 2 first rounders and would trade down for more picks in the later rounds.

Well...lets look at it this way.

The Jets gave up two first rounders for a DT that has yet to prove himself. He could be a bust, for all we know. However, The Jets gave up 2 first rounders and about 10 million in signing bonus for him.

Champ Bailey is a proven veteren who hasn't missed an NFL game in his career. If he were eligible for the draft this year, he would have been the #1 pick, hands down.

I don't think it is out of the realm for a team to covet Champ enough to give up a lot for him.

[Gump84]

While Arrington is a fan favorite, he certainly doesn't sell tickets. Tickets have been sold out for 14 or so years, and there is now a waiting list of like 80,000. I'm pretty sure they're set in the ticket department :D

[Patrick]

Originally posted by dj_stouty
Well...lets look at it this way.

The Jets gave up two first rounders for a DT that has yet to prove himself. He could be a bust, for all we know. However, The Jets gave up 2 first rounders and about 10 million in signing bonus for him.

Champ Bailey is a proven veteren who hasn't missed an NFL game in his career. If he were eligible for the draft this year, he would have been the #1 pick, hands down.

I don't think it is out of the realm for a team to covet Champ enough to give up a lot for him.


DT or DE - there have been a few that teams have given up two #1s for but a DB - Of course that goes with the thinking that you build a good defense up front and work your way back.
I agree with everything you pointed out about Champ though I just don't think that there is a team in that dire need of a DB - of course things can and do change with the season.

[ShaggySkins]

The Cowboys gave up 2 first rounders for Joey Galloway a few years ago. I don't think its out of the question for a team to give up 2 first rounders for Champ.

[camasterton]

The Jets only gave up one First Round pick, to move up into the top 5. 2-1=1. The only Teams I can remember giving up two First Rounders for a FA were the Redskins to get Dan Wilkenson and the Panthers to get Sean Gilbert. DOOOH!

[BigCountry]

Champ said "I don't think they hate me that much"!!!! Either he's hurt, or Jewish (because he thinks everyone hates him), or both. You're the best player on the team you ding bat!!

[dj_stouty]

Originally posted by camasterton
The Jets only gave up one First Round pick, to move up into the top 5. 2-1=1. The only Teams I can remember giving up two First Rounders for a FA were the Redskins to get Dan Wilkenson and the Panthers to get Sean Gilbert. DOOOH!

I don't entirely agree with the math.

Its the same thing.

The Jets used 2 first round draft picks for a perceived stud in their eyes.

Any team interested in Champ would have to use 2 first round draft picks for a TRUE stud.

Same thing....2 picks for a player.

[dj_stouty]

I can count many more stud DEs and DTs in the league than there are shut down corners. That being said...Champ would be a SUPER COMMODITY.

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by Gump84
While Arrington is a fan favorite, he certainly doesn't sell tickets. Tickets have been sold out for 14 or so years, and there is now a waiting list of like 80,000. I'm pretty sure they're set in the ticket department :D

I disagree. I believe that LaVar does sell tickets, and although the waiting list is enormous, that doesn't apply to the countless number of club seats that are always for sell.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Originally posted by camasterton
The Jets only gave up one First Round pick, to move up into the top 5. 2-1=1. The only Teams I can remember giving up two First Rounders for a FA were the Redskins to get Dan Wilkenson and the Panthers to get Sean Gilbert. DOOOH!

No, Cam, they gave up one first rounder to move up, then used the other to select him. That's two used in total.

[Green-Is-Good]

Didn't they give up two? Our 13th overall pick and their own 22nd pick.

[dukeuch]

Whatever happened to just paying the guy, even at a premium? Wouldn't we like, to once, pay out the nose for a guy we know is good, and will be good for a long time? A good CB, who can close down one side of the field AND pop someone with a hit, is really hard to come by, and can give a "D" a lot of options, and cover up a lot of deficiencies in the right scheme.

[Green-Is-Good]

We have to attend to our other needs as well. The Team as a whole is more important than one player.

[skinswin'emALL]

Originally posted by Green Is Good
Didn't they give up two? Our 13th overall pick and their own 22nd pick.

Yes - They traded the 22nd and 13th (that they got fom us for Coles) to Chicago to select 5th for whoever it was.

[Green-Is-Good]

So, basically, they traded Coles and the 22nd overall pick for DeWayne Robertson.

[Skins57]

Hey Cam, I believe we gave up a first and a third for big Daddy. I don't believe Champ would have any trouble bringing 2 firsts

[camasterton]

Like I said, "I can remember..." It ain't the first time it's failed me.

[camasterton]

If I had two apples and gave you both for your apple, I'd have given you one apple.

[camasterton]

If I had two apples and given you both for your orange, I'd have given you two apples.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Alright, Cam, let's try this another way......

The Jets had how many first round picks? Two, right? And they got one player out of them, correct? So if another team gives us two first round picks for one player (Champ), how is it any different?

[camasterton]

I'm just hungry.

[GoingDeep]

All I can say is if Champ doesn't want to be here .BYE BYE.

[hail2skins]

Originally posted by dukeuch
Whatever happened to just paying the guy, even at a premium? Wouldn't we like, to once, pay out the nose for a guy we know is good, and will be good for a long time? A good CB, who can close down one side of the field AND pop someone with a hit, is really hard to come by, and can give a "D" a lot of options, and cover up a lot of deficiencies in the right scheme.

YOu mean lead with his shoulder when tackling and forgetting to wrap up. He's a great corner and I like him alot but his tackling is terrible.

[skinswin'emALL]

Originally posted by hail2skins
YOu mean lead with his shoulder when tackling and forgetting to wrap up. He's a great corner and I like him alot but his tackling is terrible.

Smoot too. Acually too many players do this in today's NFL. It's really sad when you think about it:(