MSN Offseason rankings

[Swirvi]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6818358

22. Washington Redskins
In a few months, we may look back on this off-season as addition by subtraction. Gone are many of the high-profile acquisitions from previous seasons — David Patten, Troy Vincent, John Hall, Adam Archuleta, and T.J. Duckett. In comes proven talents Jason Fabini and London Fletcher-Baker. The Fred Smoot signing will bring a reunion for the former Redskins star and his old team. Then Washington went out and had a pretty productive NFL Draft. Patient, they used their only Day 1 pick on LaRon Landry, and picked up intriguing prospects H.B. Blades and Jordan Palmer on Day 2. At no point, though, both through free agency and the draft did the 'Skins address their putrid defensive line.

Biggest gain: London Fletcher-Baker, LB
Biggest loss: Derrick Dockery, OG

Are they in better shape than they were in January?
Absolutely. Clinton Portis is back and healthy, Jason Campbell has a full year under his belt, and the defense picks up two instant playmakers in LaRon Landry and London Fletcher-Baker. H.B. Blades will surprise some folks, as well. Betts and Portis could emerge as a top running back combination if Al Saunders manages egos right.

Not the greatest respect, ranking-wise. But he did give us some props. Seems like everyone is loving the H.B. Blades pick-up.

[PennSkinsFan]

I think the press gives way more credit to Dockery than he deserves.

[S.Taylor36]

I think the press gives way more credit to Dockery than he deserves.

Regardless if they give him too much credit, he will be missed.

[Dolla Bill]

I think the press gives way more credit to Dockery than he deserves.


True, but he was an important piece that is now missing on the OL. The OL has been at least one of the most consistent groups of the team, concerning personel turnover.

[Hr fan]

We were 28th out of 32 teams by record last year. I can't remember a time when a worst-to-first scenario was predicted. Like statisticians, writers tend to extrapolate on the latest trend. Since ours went from 10-6 to 5-11 we are lucky to be forecast improving with an aging team with an injury history like ours.

Sound bites are nice but seldom accurate. Sanders offense has always been poor in the 1st year, but catches fire in the 2nd. JC believes in the system, and MB did not IMO. The D can't help but improve given where it was last year. His comments on the D line tend to be shared by the vast majority of us. Wonder where he would put us if we pick up some competent D line help after 6/1?

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Pretty honest evaluation.

[GreenspanDan]

although i personally believe we'll be far better than the 22nd best team in the league, i certianly can't fault an objective source for putting us there. after all, we were 5-11 and we didn't address what most perceived as our biggest need.

i think this guy is right that portis healthy and campbell with a year under his belt will mean big things for this offense, and i just can't help but believe a defense that was very very solid for 3 years will bounce back after last year's complete collapse.

[Swirvi]

and i just can't help but believe a defense that was very very solid for 3 years will bounce back after last year's complete collapse.

you mean you can't believe that the defense WON'T bounce back right? I think we all feel like the defense will be better this year, with or without addressing the line.

[Farmer Ted]

Gone are many of the high-profile acquisitions from previous seasons — David Patten, Troy Vincent, John Hall, Adam Archuleta, and T.J. Duckett.

I don't see how it's fair to lump Vincent in with the other guys. Didn't we pick him up off the scrap-heap in the middle of last season? He was hardly a high-profile acquisition. And he did have one of the biggest plays of the season for us, so I have no problems with Vincent.

[GreenspanDan]

you mean you can't believe that the defense WON'T bounce back right? I think we all feel like the defense will be better this year, with or without addressing the line.

yeah, sorry for the confusing phrasing. i believe it will bounce back.

[Skinz4lyfe]

Don't see anything wrong with that evaluation. Actually they were pretty positive towards the outlook of our team. However, I do not see anybody else that we lost this year other than Dockery that "could" cripple this team. That's why he's seen as the biggest lost. IMO, we still necessarily haven't addressed it. We'll see what we have in preseason though. Should be interesting.

[hockeygoalie29]

It's hard to take this seriously when he has Kansas City in the top half of the league when I think they had one of the worst off seasons of any team in the league. Then he predicts them going back to the playoffs...

[S.Taylor36]

Good evaluation of the Redskins.

[Redskin-4-life]

Good analysis, but I don't think that I would classify Patten as "High Profile":rolleyes:

[FanFromArizona]

Good analysis, but I don't think that I would classify Patten as "High Profile":rolleyes:

or Jason Fabini either! :lol1:

In comes proven talents Jason Fabini and London Fletcher-Baker.

[BurgundyNGold]

He called our DL "putrid", lol.

[urobm]

Regardless if they give him too much credit, he will be missed.


Oh yeah, we groomed Dock and he finally did have a very good season last year, but he surely was overpriced and though he will be missed, I think we can slide Wade in and not miss a beat.

[urobm]

True, but he was an important piece that is now missing on the OL. The OL has been at least one of the most consistent groups of the team, concerning personel turnover.


Yes the OL was a very important piece. Do you think we should have paid Dock the money he got from the Bills?

[urobm]

Good analysis, but I don't think that I would classify Patten as "High Profile":rolleyes:


The analysis was good, I also questioned that note on Patten. Patten was a good guy, I wish he could have been more productive for us though.

[bgforever]

I think the press gives way more credit to Dockery than he deserves.

"When you're smiling, the whole world smiles with you" - Louis Armstrong

Hey, when the offsides, whiffs, and other details happen, will they still be gathered around with the mikes and blogging on the net - NO. They won't do an article on how negative it is for him, they will just fade like they do with all players, when the enamel wears off.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

This was the first place that a writer wrote that we had a good draft. Everyone else seems to blast us. No matter what we do.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

I think the press gives way more credit to Dockery than he deserves.
he is technically our biggest loss since he is the only true starter who left. i say true starter since archuleta was never really the supposed to be the starter here.

[MikeBass]

Absoluelty absurd!!!...This team will IMO be one of the best in the NFC. Our offense started to come on in the latter part of the season and with Portis returning and a better understanding of Saunders' offensive scheme I expect that this unit to excel this coming season from start to finish. The defense has added some playmakers in Fletcher and Landry, depth and lots of speed and aggressiveness and along with Taylor, Griff, Carter and Washington this should also be solid unit.

I do not think that we will be anything worst than 10-6 and I do not think that record will make us the 22nd team in the league.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Absoluelty absurd!!!...This team will IMO be one of the best in the NFC. Our offense started to come on in the latter part of the season and with Portis returning and a better understanding of Saunders' offensive scheme I expect that this unit to excel this coming season from start to finish. The defense has added some playmakers in Fletcher and Landry, depth and lots of speed and aggressiveness and along with Taylor, Griff, Carter and Washington this should also be solid unit.

I do not think that we will be anything worst than 10-6 and I do not think that record will make us the 22nd team in the league.
I think they are talking about just the offseason. (Unless they think that the Raiders and 49ers will be the 2nd and 3rd best team in the league)

[colkurtz]

Good and balanced analysis. I put us more around #15or #16, but no one is going to be expecting great things after this team melted down so badly last season.

I'd rather have ppl underestimating us than talking SB........

[redskin_rich]

We were 5-11 and lost 6 of our last 8 games. We ended the season with a few of our best player on IR. We have a QB with only 7 career starts under his belt and we are coming off our worst defensive effort ever.
We should be ranked somewhere in the 20's until we prove otherwise and that can't happen until September.

I think 10-6 is very optimistic, though possible, it would be a great achievement for this team.
I'm not making any predictions just yet, except that I expect to be better than 5-11.

[MikeBass]

I think they are talking about just the offseason. (Unless they think that the Raiders and 49ers will be the 2nd and 3rd best team in the league)

You are correct...got beside myself a little but our offseason was not as bad as that either but only time will tell

[urobm]

Absoluelty absurd!!!...This team will IMO be one of the best in the NFC. Our offense started to come on in the latter part of the season and with Portis returning and a better understanding of Saunders' offensive scheme I expect that this unit to excel this coming season from start to finish. The defense has added some playmakers in Fletcher and Landry, depth and lots of speed and aggressiveness and along with Taylor, Griff, Carter and Washington this should also be solid unit.

I do not think that we will be anything worst than 10-6 and I do not think that record will make us the 22nd team in the league.


Yeah, 10-6 we should be able to get there on sheer talent alone. We do have some playmakers on both offense and defensive. I am just hoping everyone stays healthy. If everyone stays healthy and JC continues to progress, I can honestly see 11-5, 12-4.

[Epochalypse]

As much as I'd like to see a great season, I believe we are about one more year away from an opportunity to start being special. Campbell will have had a full year under him, Portis will have been a year removed from all these injuries, Landry and Taylor will have had a year working together, and maybe we finally start getting younger and improving some of those areas we are still weak in. Don't get me wrong, I think considering the situation we were in going into the offseason the FO did a really good job with what they had, considering of course it was a situation they themselves created, and I think we'll be a competitive team with a shot at the playoffs next year if we make some strides. But it is the year after when I think we'll finally see us make the move to being among the elite again if the front office continues to make the right moves.

[frankez99]

I can live with that assessment...and I truly believe that we deserve *most* of the negative press we receive....that being said:

I expect (honestly) that we will be vastly improved over last years 5 win team. And when I say "we", I mean the Redskins, my fellow hR.com members, and myself!:)

[Epochalypse]

Well if I'm expected to be improved along with the team I better step up my training regimen :lol1:

I notice you're at Minot. B-52s or missiles?

[frankez99]

Well if I'm expected to be improved along with the team I better step up my training regimen :lol1:

I notice you're at Minot. B-52s or missiles?

5th BW....B52's....but "stuck" in the WSA....:rolleyes:

[MikeBass]

Yeah, 10-6 we should be able to get there on sheer talent alone. We do have some playmakers on both offense and defensive. I am just hoping everyone stays healthy. If everyone stays healthy and JC continues to progress, I can honestly see 11-5, 12-4.

I agree, we are going to have a hella ball control offense with our 2 RB's relieving each other, Cooley and Betts catching passes for first downs. Moss should do what Moss always does and make the huge catches and ARE will make his gadget plays and catch some big passes of his own. With those guys in place Campbells progression should be able to slowly take place instead of trying to, totally, rely on our young QB trying to do too much early.

The defense usually feeds off of the offense's momentum and vice versa, so yeah, we are going to have, at least, a playoff season this year .

[Epochalypse]

I worked on B-52s at Barksdale before I became an officer and I did my missile duty at Warren so I avoided Minot twice. Now all I have to do is avoid it my last ten years and I can retire happy.

Enough thread hijacking from me, back to the Skins. Apologies to you civilian types out there...

[Epochalypse]

Don't forget that we will have a last place schedule on our side and I really don't know that the other NFC East teams pulled away from the pack this offseason. They all seem beatable to me if we play like we can.

[urobm]

As much as I'd like to see a great season, I believe we are about one more year away from an opportunity to start being special. Campbell will have had a full year under him, Portis will have been a year removed from all these injuries, Landry and Taylor will have had a year working together, and maybe we finally start getting younger and improving some of those areas we are still weak in. Don't get me wrong, I think considering the situation we were in going into the offseason the FO did a really good job with what they had, considering of course it was a situation they themselves created, and I think we'll be a competitive team with a shot at the playoffs next year if we make some strides. But it is the year after when I think we'll finally see us make the move to being among the elite again if the front office continues to make the right moves.


Its been a pretty decent offseason, except ofcourse no true DL help. Besides that it has been productive and for once quiet. We have enough talent to make a run at the playoffs this year. Like you say though, maybe another year to really compete as an elite team though. I am still happy with that. Doesnt Gibbs have 1 year left on his contract? If so what happens when it is up?

[Epochalypse]

I think Gibbs seriously wants to solidify his decision to come back by winning another ring. I think when his contract ends, he and Dan will have a talk about how close he feels the Skins are to reaching that goal and decide from there, if they haven't already done so of course. At least that's what my magic 8 ball tells me...

[urobm]

I think Gibbs seriously wants to solidify his decision to come back by winning another ring. I think when his contract ends, he and Dan will have a talk about how close he feels the Skins are to reaching that goal and decide from there, if they haven't already done so of course. At least that's what my magic 8 ball tells me...


I think you are right, and no matter I always stand behind Coach Joe. I do feel like he made some questionable moves, but who I am I to question Coach Joe. He will always be associated with the Redskins, and I hope he does hang around a bit longer to finish what he started.

[MikeBass]

I think Gibbs seriously wants to solidify his decision to come back by winning another ring. I think when his contract ends, he and Dan will have a talk about how close he feels the Skins are to reaching that goal and decide from there, if they haven't already done so of course. At least that's what my magic 8 ball tells me...

Of course, at least he is going to give it a try. Gibbs seems to have the winner mentality and I do not think that he will give up that easily.

[redskin_rich]

Don't forget that we will have a last place schedule on our side and I really don't know that the other NFC East teams pulled away from the pack this offseason. They all seem beatable to me if we play like we can.
The last place schedule doesn't really mean much these days, since it only involves two games. This year's last place schedule get's us a game in Tampa (who we seem to play in their house every year) and a home game against Arizona (who could be one of the more improved teams this year).

[MikeBass]

The last place schedule doesn't really mean much these days, since it only involves two games. This year's last place schedule get's us a game in Tampa (who we seem to play in their house every year) and a home game against Arizona (who could be one of the more improved teams this year).

You are right but a much improved team from even our 10-6 team of two years ago should mean a lot. Although I am not totally happy with our wide out position it is head and shoulders better than what we had then, Portis has a much improved Betts backing him up, Campbell should be an upgrade from Brunell, we have a real MLB, ST should be able to do more with Landry beside him, the corners are better. The team is much better han our 10-6 season.

[akhhorus]

You are right but a much improved team from even our 10-6 team of two years ago should mean a lot. Although I am not totally happy with our wide out position it is head and shoulders better than what we had then, Portis has a much improved Betts backing him up, Campbell should be an upgrade from Brunell, we have a real MLB, ST should be able to do more with Landry beside him, the corners are better. The team is much better han our 10-6 season.

If the Dline plays much better than they look right now, maybe. I think 10 wins might be hopeful. 8-9 is realistic. The offense should be fine, but they don't have the weapons to score 30 points a game, and if the Dline is poor, they'd need to for the skins to win 10.

[redskin_rich]

You are right but a much improved team from even our 10-6 team of two years ago should mean a lot. Although I am not totally happy with our wide out position it is head and shoulders better than what we had then, Portis has a much improved Betts backing him up, Campbell should be an upgrade from Brunell, we have a real MLB, ST should be able to do more with Landry beside him, the corners are better. The team is much better han our 10-6 season.
While I share your optimism to a point, I'm not going to assume that everything plays out so well.
I am pretty confident in our offense and we even have some decent depth for once, except at TE and FB. But it is impossible these days to be fully loaded.

The defense, while I think will be improved, still has a few question marks. Will our D-Line stay healthy and be better? Will Marcus be back to his form? Is Rocky legit? In the secondary, everyone except Sean Taylor is a question mark. Can Springs stay healthy? Can Carlos and Smoot rebound from subpar seasons? How long will it take Landry to start and make an impact?

I'm just being more guarded this season. Last year was a big disappointment for me.

[MikeBass]

If the Dline plays much better than they look right now, maybe. I think 10 wins might be hopeful. 8-9 is realistic. The offense should be fine, but they don't have the weapons to score 30 points a game, and if the Dline is poor, they'd need to for the skins to win 10.

The Dline played poorly last season because of injuries but with the LB's and DB's that we have as far as aggression and talent, I think that all we need is a servicable Dline to get us to 10-6 and we have that now. I think that we will get some young Dlinemen with our draft picks after this season but what we have should work out fine this season.

[akhhorus]

The Dline played poorly last season because of injuries but with the LB's and DB's that we have as far as aggression and talent, I think that all we need is a servicable Dline to get us to 10-6 and we have that now. I think that we will get some young Dlinemen with our draft picks after this season but what we have should work out fine this season.

Not just injuries, even when healthy they would get blown off the ball last year. I think that to say that just a servicable Dline that we'll win 10 is very unrealistic. We'll need an effective Dline, and we don't have that now-even when healthy-unless Golston takes a major step forward in play. I'll wait until that happens before I count on it.

[MikeBass]

Not just injuries, even when healthy they would get blown off the ball last year. I think that to say that just a servicable Dline that we'll win 10 is very unrealistic. We'll need an effective Dline, and we don't have that now-even when healthy-unless Golston takes a major step forward in play. I'll wait until that happens before I count on it.

Griff and big Joe was not getting blown of the ball when they were healthy and they are only one year removed from their dominant season. I still say look out for Carter he will have, at least, a 15 sack season. R-Mac and Fletch will always be around the ball against the run, and both our safties are slobber-knockers. We can do so much now at the line of scrimmage that we were not able to do last season, and even Springs (if we keep him) led the team in sacks in our #5 defensive year.

[Hr fan]

Oh yeah, we groomed Dock and he finally did have a very good season last year, but he surely was overpriced and though he will be missed, I think we can slide Wade in and not miss a beat.

He was by far the worst OL we had until last year, and he was still the least of the 5. Personally I look at what the player has done before the walk year. It seems that 1 year spent as all other year's should have been in preparation doesn't guarantee that the light went on, only that the prospect of a payday warranted a never-to-be-repeated effort.

[Hr fan]

Yes the OL was a very important piece. Do you think we should have paid Dock the money he got from the Bills?

Is he as good as Hutchinson or Faneca? They are all-pros, and Dock was the 5th best lineman on our team. I still can't believe the Buffalo deal, and wonder what they saw that no one else in football saw. I applaud the FO for realizing the insanity of the offer and backing away. This is not like losing Pierce. It is insanity.

[urobm]

He was by far the worst OL we had until last year, and he was still the least of the 5. Personally I look at what the player has done before the walk year. It seems that 1 year spent as all other year's should have been in preparation doesn't guarantee that the light went on, only that the prospect of a payday warranted a never-to-be-repeated effort.


Yeah he finally performed in his contract year. (lol) Isnt that how it usually happens. The cohesion between the OL was good last year, but that is simply rediculous the money he got from the Bills and no way we could match it. He is a good player, but he got great player money. Well, good luck Dock.

[Hr fan]

Not just injuries, even when healthy they would get blown off the ball last year. I think that to say that just a servicable Dline that we'll win 10 is very unrealistic. We'll need an effective Dline, and we don't have that now-even when healthy-unless Golston takes a major step forward in play. I'll wait until that happens before I count on it.

A 2-gapper would improve everybody, just as Salave'a did 2 years ago. A pass rusher would be really good, but not as good as stopping the run and keeping our LBs free to make plays. And this starts when one DT can occupy 2 blockers without going backwards.

[akhhorus]

Griff and big Joe was not getting blown of the ball when they were healthy and they are only one year removed from their dominant season.

Big Joe was never dominant. Griff was getting blown off the ball, even when healthy and Golston was good for about 10 plays a game.

I still say look out for Carter he will have, at least, a 15 sack season.

You are in complete denial then. I love Carter. But 15 sacks? Be real.

R-Mac and Fletch will always be around the ball against the run, and both our safties are slobber-knockers.

Rocky has the physical tools, but he also had a talent for overpursuing and taking himself out of the play. Until he shows he's fixed that, I'm not going to assume that he's going to be Lance Briggs. Fletcher is a very solid MLB who will struggle if he's being blocked by a OLman.

We can do so much now at the line of scrimmage that we were not able to do last season, and even Springs (if we keep him) led the team in sacks in our #5 defensive year.

And we still have problems on the DL.

[Hr fan]

Big Joe was never dominant. Griff was getting blown off the ball, even when healthy and Golston was good for about 10 plays a game.



You are in complete denial then. I love Carter. But 15 sacks? Be real.



Rocky has the physical tools, but he also had a talent for overpursuing and taking himself out of the play. Until he shows he's fixed that, I'm not going to assume that he's going to be Lance Briggs. Fletcher is a very solid MLB who will struggle if he's being blocked by a OLman.



And we still have problems on the DL.

Unfortunately I agree totally with your analysis.:cry:

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Big Joe was never dominant. Griff was getting blown off the ball, even when healthy and Golston was good for about 10 plays a game.



You are in complete denial then. I love Carter. But 15 sacks? Be real.



Rocky has the physical tools, but he also had a talent for overpursuing and taking himself out of the play. Until he shows he's fixed that, I'm not going to assume that he's going to be Lance Briggs. Fletcher is a very solid MLB who will struggle if he's being blocked by a OLman.



And we still have problems on the DL.
Hater.

[frankez99]

While I share your optimism to a point, I'm not going to assume that everything plays out so well.
I am pretty confident in our offense and we even have some decent depth for once, except at TE and FB. But it is impossible these days to be fully loaded.

The defense, while I think will be improved, still has a few question marks. Will our D-Line stay healthy and be better? Will Marcus be back to his form? Is Rocky legit? In the secondary, everyone except Sean Taylor is a question mark. Can Springs stay healthy? Can Carlos and Smoot rebound from subpar seasons? How long will it take Landry to start and make an impact?

I'm just being more guarded this season. Last year was a big disappointment for me.

I agree...last season really sapped my strength so I am far less optimistic than I usually am going into a season....

and I must be in the minority when I think Sean Taylor is a question mark. He is undisciplined...takes poor angles....and isn't as solid of a tackler as everyone makes him out to be. He still seems very unpolished to me which is quite deflating at this junction of his career. Then again....maybe I am just too deflated as a Redskin fan. :rolleyes:

[redskin_rich]

I agree...last season really sapped my strength so I am far less optimistic than I usually am going into a season....

and I must be in the minority when I think Sean Taylor is a question mark. He is undisciplined...takes poor angles....and isn't as solid of a tackler as everyone makes him out to be. He still seems very unpolished to me which is quite deflating at this junction of his career. Then again....maybe I am just too deflated as a Redskin fan. :rolleyes:
An unpolished Sean Taylor is still a heck of a football player but I do agree that he needs to take it to the next level to become the elite player we all expect him to be.

[Hr fan]

An unpolished Sean Taylor is still a heck of a football player but I do agree that he needs to take it to the next level to become the elite player we all expect him to be.


ST has highlight hits, and this has covered for less than spectacular playing in the rest of the game. If there are 60-70 D plays a game he looks great on 5-7, is not involved in 30-35, and looks out of place/poor angles to the ball or late arriving at the ball IMO on 10-12. I don't count last year when he was trying to play 2 S positions at once. Guys like Polamalu and Reed show up on every play - I hope with a really competent S next to him and a better defined role as FS ST can become the player the FO hopes for.

[MikeBass]

While I share your optimism to a point, I'm not going to assume that everything plays out so well.
I am pretty confident in our offense and we even have some decent depth for once, except at TE and FB. But it is impossible these days to be fully loaded.

The defense, while I think will be improved, still has a few question marks. Will our D-Line stay healthy and be better? Will Marcus be back to his form? Is Rocky legit? In the secondary, everyone except Sean Taylor is a question mark. Can Springs stay healthy? Can Carlos and Smoot rebound from subpar seasons? How long will it take Landry to start and make an impact?

I'm just being more guarded this season. Last year was a big disappointment for me.

I was also disappointed in last year but I also believe that we are better than the team of a season ago and have made some upgrades to a defense that had players that can play the game but had to deviate from their original plans due to injuries and lack of quality depth. Depending on players such as Wright, Rumph, Holdman and even an out of position Marshal on top of having to start rookie late round Dlinemen Golston and Montgomery (although now I am happy that they got some game experience and should be better this season), at the beginning of the season, would make any defense look bad.

We are playing in a conference that is not that good and we have just as much talent as any other team in it and better coaches.

[MikeBass]

Big Joe was never dominant. Griff was getting blown off the ball, even when healthy and Golston was good for about 10 plays a game.



You are in complete denial then. I love Carter. But 15 sacks? Be real.



Rocky has the physical tools, but he also had a talent for overpursuing and taking himself out of the play. Until he shows he's fixed that, I'm not going to assume that he's going to be Lance Briggs. Fletcher is a very solid MLB who will struggle if he's being blocked by a OLman.



And we still have problems on the DL.

15 sacks may be a bit much but I think that he could pull it off but if he has a double figure sack season I will be satisfied because we are going to be doing a lot of things with our DB's and linebackers that will create sacks, pressure on the QB and turnovers this season. IMO this is why we approached the offseason the way that we did.