Portis Comments Re: Vick

[Skins7ny]

Here is a report from PFT:

POSTED 9:31 p.m. EDT; UPDATED 9:43 p.m. EDT, May 18, 2007

PORTIS SUPPORTS VICK

Redskins running back Clinton Portis and left tackle Chris Samuels have spoken out in support of Falcons quarterback Michael Vick, who currently is caught up in a dog-fighting investigation.

But they're not saying that Vick is innocent. Per Portis, it's no big deal if Vick is guilty.

"I don't know if he was fighting dogs or not, but it's his property, it's his dog," Portis told WAVY-TV. "If that's what he wants to do, do it."

As Portis spoke, Samuels started laughing, and at one point raised his eyebrows with (as we interpret it) an "oh sh-t I can't believe he's saying this" look on his face.

"I think people should mind their business," Portis added.

In response to the question of whether dog-fighting is prevalent in the NFL and the NBA, Portis said, "I mean it's prevalent in life. . . . I'm from Laurel, Mississippi. I know a lot of back roads that got the dog fight if you want to go see it."

Um, we're not licensed to practice law in Virginia, but we don't think that the Commonwealth has formally recognized the defenses of "everybody does it" or "if it's behind closed doors, it's okay."

And if we didn't know better (and, actually, we don't), we'd be inclined to wonder whether Portis has been to a few of those dog fights in Laurel, Mississippi.

Or in Surry County, Virginia.

And Clinton's comments provide even more reason to believe that Ray Buchanan said what Chris Landry said he said about Vick and dog fighting. The lesson here is that current and former NFL players look out for each other, no matter how ridiculous they look or sound when doing so.

Need more evidence that Portis should be ignored on this point? He refers to Vick as a "positive role model." We need to know whether Clinton gave Mike this label for giving the middle finger to the home fans (including kids) or giving an STD to the ex-girlfriend. Or maybe he's referring to the water bottle thing. There are just so many positive things from which to choose.

If this is true, and it appears to have been a live on-air interview, it is very disappointing. I understand loyalty to a friend/fellow player, but defending Vick's behavior with the dogs is just stupid and mindless. It is not really a big deal from a team point of view, but it just is further evidence to me that Portis doesn't always get it. What stupid comments.

Interestingly, there is nothing in the PFT blurb that suggests that Samuels defended Vick in any way. Unless they disclose more information, they should remove that allegation from their posting.

[PyroGenic]

i threw this in the Michael Vick NFL Forum dealie

[LATrueRedskin]

I wholeheartedly disagree with Clinton, and I wish he didn't say that.

[jtovb2005]

I don't think it really fits under the NFL players look out for each other. It seems to me to be under the old people just say and belive plain old stupid things. "Yea butting" is what I always called it. Some one always has a logic to excuse all kinds of things.

[shally]

I don't think it really fits under the NFL players look out for each other. It seems to me to be under the old people just say and belive plain old stupid things. "Yea butting" is what I always called it. Some one always has a logic to excuse all kinds of things.

we do not know whether portis and vick are friends anyway.. or whether CP is just running off at the mouth

[jtovb2005]

we do not know whether portis and vick are friends anyway.. or whether CP is just running off at the mouth

Lol, my bet is the running off at the mouth thing :)

[wewantdallas]

we do not know whether portis and vick are friends anyway.. or whether CP is just running off at the mouth

He's definitely running off at the mouth, and he looks like an ignorant moron (as opposed to an intelligent moron) for saying what he said. Really disappointing as a Skins fan to see something as barbaric and cruel as dog fighting be played off like this by anyone, but especially a member of my favorite team.

[jtovb2005]

He's definitely running off at the mouth, and he looks like an ignorant moron (as opposed to an intelligent moron) for saying what he said. Really disappointing as a Skins fan to see something as barbaric and cruel as dog fighting be played off like this by anyone, but especially a member of my favorite team.

While I agree with you, I am sure more than Portis have stupid and barbaric opinions about many things. Just a fact of life when you get human beings together it seems.

[DCGreys]

Is this for real? No way the Portis I admire would say these things. Darn, disillusioned again.

[ryflan47]

watch your mouth clinton...

[skinsrdatruth]

Here's the link to the interview:

http://www.wavy.com/global/video/po...=1449454&h1=Two

[bgforever]

I don't wear jerseys anymore, and this makes me more thankful! Support for a fellow NFLer, to point of compromising your innnermost values???

So we kis* mr Portis behind for the sake of being next to him or getting an autograph. I 'll pass. I've got JOE GIBBS autograph, letter authenticated and its enough to cover 3 decades of a legend. I don't need a wannnabe's. Maybe more infamous for his mouth now, than his accomplishments, uh-hum, whether positive yardage or not!

[shally]

He's definitely running off at the mouth, and he looks like an ignorant moron (as opposed to an intelligent moron) for saying what he said. Really disappointing as a Skins fan to see something as barbaric and cruel as dog fighting be played off like this by anyone, but especially a member of my favorite team.

i love your comparison of intelligent vs ignorant morons

[rskinsfan10]

How exactly did Samuels "support" Vick?

I've made my feelings about PFT known in the past, and unless there is more to this, then this article further supports my thoughts/feelings about them. If Samuels didn't say anything to "support" Vick, I wish he would sue the hell out of PFT in an effort to drive them out of business. I for one would be very delighted if that occurred.

[CarMike]

How exactly did Samuels "support" Vick?

I've made my feelings about PFT known in the past, and unless there is more to this, then this article further supports my thoughts/feelings about them. If Samuels didn't say anything to "support" Vick, I wish he would sue the hell out of PFT in an effort to drive them out of business. I for one would be very delighted if that occurred.
I'd be in your corner as well. Where did Samuels say he supported Vick?

As far as Portis. I don't agree with him, but he deserves his own opinion without people calling him names.

[shally]

I'd be in your corner as well. Where did Samuels say he supported Vick?

As far as Portis. I don't agree with him, but he deserves his own opinion without people calling him names.

agreed.. but CP still needs to think about his words if he is coming out as pro dogfighting.. that is a no win situation for him to be in..

[CarMike]

agreed.. but CP still needs to think about his words if he is coming out as pro dogfighting.. that is a no win situation for him to be in..
Being a dog lover, I couldn't agree more shally. He seems to be the kind of guy who speaks his mind first, then thinks later. This isn't the first time he's been out spoken. I guess that's why i'm not that shocked...

[shally]

Being a dog lover, I couldn't agree more shally. He seems to be the kind of guy who speaks his mind first, then thinks later. This isn't the first time he's been out spoken. I guess that's why i'm not that shocked...

as someone else here said, he should have put on dark glasses, a dress and a wig before making that statement

being outspoken is one thing.. coming out in favor of an illegal (and immoral activity IMHO) event is another.. supporting your "friends" is one thing.. supporting illegal activity is another

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I've already stated my opinion regarding this in the other thread. I hope, for Portis's sake, that he is kidding.

[shally]

I've already stated my opinion regarding this in the other thread. I hope, for Portis's sake, that he is kidding.

this might be one of those circumstances where CP is better off just shutting up and saying "no comment" to any further question

[wewantdallas]

As far as Portis. I don't agree with him, but he deserves his own opinion without people calling him names.

I don't know about that in this case. If someone has an opinion that breeding dogs to rip each other apart and kill each other for their own amusement and the amusement of their friends is okay, I think that makes that person deserving of being called a few names. At the very least.

[shally]

I don't know about that in this case. If someone has an opinion that breeding dogs to rip each other apart and kill each other for their own amusement and the amusement of their friends is okay, I think that makes that person deserving of being called a few names. At the very least.

plus, it is openly supporting an activity that is illegal. not a very smart position to take in public-- even if that is how you feel privately..

[CNYSkinFan]

I was very mad whenI read this and still am...

BUT

We have to remember Portis like most NFL players is a young kid. It is one thing to say dog fighting is no big deal and nother to actually condone and operate it. Young football players are full of piss and vinegar and think nothing is a big deal, This is machismo talking....

However if Portis is EVEr found to even have placed a bet at a dog fighting ring I want him off the team. it is a vile vile activity carried out by proof that Darwin may actually be wrong.

[CNYSkinFan]

I don't know about that in this case. If someone has an opinion that breeding dogs to rip each other apart and kill each other for their own amusement and the amusement of their friends is okay, I think that makes that person deserving of being called a few names. At the very least.
that is true. People have to remember to train the dogs to attack in such a viscious manner non fighting breeds, often puppies are thrown into cages to their certain death to get the kill instinct into the fighting dog. It is a cruel cruel sport.

[shally]

I was very mad whenI read this and still am...

BUT

We have to remember Portis like most NFL players is a young kid. It is one thing to say dog fighting is no big deal and nother to actually condone and operate it. Young football players are full of piss and vinegar and think nothing is a big deal, This is machismo talking....

However if Portis is EVEr found to even have placed a bet at a dog fighting ring I want him off the team. it is a vile vile activity carried out by proof that Darwin may actually be wrong.

it is one thing for portis to say he supports vick without having seen the sport.. but even attending one of those vile events could not possibly leave an impression that it was "okay"

[BurgundyNGold]

I was very mad whenI read this and still am...

BUT

We have to remember Portis like most NFL players is a young kid. It is one thing to say dog fighting is no big deal and nother to actually condone and operate it. Young football players are full of piss and vinegar and think nothing is a big deal, This is machismo talking....

However if Portis is EVEr found to even have placed a bet at a dog fighting ring I want him off the team. it is a vile vile activity carried out by proof that Darwin may actually be wrong.
As far as I'm concerned, 26 year old men should have to be accountable for what they say.

[shally]

that is true. People have to remember to train the dogs to attack in such a viscious manner non fighting breeds, often puppies are thrown into cages to their certain death to get the kill instinct into the fighting dog. It is a cruel cruel sport.

incidentally, there was another "sport" that was getting a lot of attention in louisiana before Katrina. hog vs dog events.

those were non lethal events where dogs were trained to bring down a hog by grabbing onto it's ear and pulling the hog down.. there were some injuries, but because it was a non lethal event the police were not giving it primary attention.. there were rotating clandestine events that were by invitation only.. sort of like a floating crap game, making it tough for the cops to pin them down because the people mostly knew each other

did those events get much play up north ??

[CNYSkinFan]

As far as I'm concerned, 26 year old men should have to be accountable for what they say.
Hey I said PLENTY of stupid things at 26. Saying stupid things IMO is better then DOING stupid things.

Again if he was ever at one of these events I want him off my team.

[CNYSkinFan]

incidentally, there was another "sport" that was getting a lot of attention in louisiana before Katrina. hog vs dog events.

those were non lethal events where dogs were trained to bring down a hog by grabbing onto it's ear and pulling the hog down.. there were some injuries, but because it was a non lethal event the police were not giving it primary attention.. there were rotating clandestine events that were by invitation only.. sort of like a floating crap game, making it tough for the cops to pin them down because the people mostly knew each other

did those events get much play up north ??
Not at all. Sounds like a rough form of herding. I can't believe this could be a useful sport for the dogs and could quickly develop into a quick kill sport.

[shally]

Hey I said PLENTY of stupid things at 26. Saying stupid things IMO is better then DOING stupid things.

Again if he was ever at one of these events I want him off my team.

i sincerely doubted you condoned illegal activities openly when you were 26...there is dumb and there is DUMB

[skinsfan36]

as long is he isnt involved in it im not worried but if he supports it then i would be really disappointed in him

[shally]

Not at all. Sounds like a rough form of herding. I can't believe this could be a useful sport for the dogs and could quickly develop into a quick kill sport.

it is not usefull for anything.. just a bizarre form of entertainment.. the hogs squeal and make a lot of noise. there is blood to please the idiots, but since the tusks are filed down the dogs are not in danger of getting gored. the dogs are trained to go after the ears and jowls of the hogs and not the neck, so it is not designed to be lethal.. i am sure there are "accidents" but it is not the intention of being lethal sport and so even though the animal rights groups pressured the police to act, it was placed at a lower priority than dog fighting.
i am not sure it was even illegal in the strictest sense so the legislature was called upon to make it illegal.. not sure if that happened and i have not seen a lot of notice in the newspaper websites about it inthe past year or so...

[BurgundyNGold]

Hey I said PLENTY of stupid things at 26. Saying stupid things IMO is better then DOING stupid things.

Again if he was ever at one of these events I want him off my team.
Quit making excuses for him. Calling him a "kid"? C'mon. He stopped being a kid 8 years ago. He needs to grow up and learn to stop talking out of his arse. Especially since there ain't no (championship) ring on that finger. My patience with him is wearing thin. I'm still waiting for that 5.0 ypc average and we all can do very well without antics like this.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

As far as I'm concerned, 26 year old men should have to be accountable for what they say.
I'm 26. I fully expect to be held accountable for what I do/say.

[BurgundyNGold]

I'm 26. I fully expect to be held accountable for what I do/say.
And your restraining orders show that you are. ;)

[shally]

I'm 26. I fully expect to be held accountable for what I do/say.

you get a pass as long as you keep on posting those pics of redheads...
:)

[CNYSkinFan]

i sincerely doubted you condoned illegal activities openly when you were 26...there is dumb and there is DUMB
well I never had a camera in my face all the time either...I am not saying what he said was smart...it wasn't. He is a dope. BUt he is young and dumb. That is why I don't get surprised when players say something stupind in the press.

[shally]

well I never had a camera in my face all the time either...I am not saying what he said was smart...it wasn't. He is a dope. BUt he is young and dumb. That is why I don't get surprised when players say something stupind in the press.

correct about nobody asking either one of us questions for the nightly news..

still, after 5 or 6 years in the nfl he should simply know better

and 26 aint that young

[BurgundyNGold]

well I never had a camera in my face all the time either...I am not saying what he said was smart...it wasn't. He is a dope. BUt he is young and dumb. That is why I don't get surprised when players say something stupind in the press.
Something tells me that Portis might get older but he won't be getting much smarter.

[frankez99]

Dang....26 is considered a "kid"? Cool...then I am a "teenage" 32. C'mon....there are 18 year-old "men" toting M16's in Iraq right now.

Stop equating athlete stupidity in regards to age. He isn't a kid.

Portis is not the smartest dude in the world....and comments like these amplify these thoughts.

My opinion: he isn't all he is cracked up to be on the field and doesn't get a "free pass" from me with comments about animals tearing each other up for fun just because he is a Redskin.

How about this CP....less interviews....less costumes....less injuries....more production.

[BurgundyNGold]

Dang....26 is considered a "kid"? Cool...then I am a "teenage" 32. C'mon....there are 18 year-old "men" toting M16's in Iraq right now.

Stop equating athlete stupidity in regards to age. He isn't a kid.

Portis is not the smartest dude in the world....and comments like these amplify these thoughts.

My opinion: he isn't all he is cracked up to be on the field and doesn't get a "free pass" from me with comments about animals tearing each other up for fun just because he is a Redskin.

How about this CP....less interviews....less costumes....less injuries....more production.
That's pretty much where I am. While I think that CP gives 100% on the field, he's not the top 5 RB we thought we were getting in the Bailey trade. I don't think there much doubt that, as it stands right now, Denver got the better of that deal it were straight up. Which it wasn't (2nd rounder).

Portis needs to have a Portis-like season this year and really exploit the spread-out nature of the Saunders offense. I am optimistic that he will.

[shally]

That's pretty much where I am. While I think that CP gives 100% on the field, he's not the top 5 RB we thought we were getting in the Bailey trade. I don't think there much doubt that, as it stands right now, Denver got the better of that deal it were straight up. Which it wasn't (2nd rounder).

Portis needs to have a Portis-like season this year and really exploit the spread-out nature of the Saunders offense. I am optimistic that he will.

hopefully with a stable o line and some better blocking schemes he has a fine year...

[SpicyMcHaggis]

And your restraining orders show that you are. ;)
Exactly. But I take full responsability for them.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

you get a pass as long as you keep on posting those pics of redheads...
:)
Lol..I knew I could count on you my friend.

[bigcmr]

everyone lets plz not blow this out of control.

[American Soldier]

This is actually coming full circle for me as far as my opinion of CP the person [not the player].

After the season, CP was on the John Thompson show running his mouth about everything from bad coaching [I'm paraphrasing] to some players not speaking up when it came to requesting change. He also threw Brandon Lloyd [the person] under the bus when he said that he alienated people. A lot of people here in HR grabbed hold of those comments and were calling for Lloyd's head. Granted, we all saw the low performance of Lloyd as well as the frustration. We also saw Moss', and a few other players frustration along with the low production. I think the frustration was justified by all, but that is an argument that has been beat into the ground in earlier threads here in HR]. What I found perculiar is the fact that you heard nothing from Lloyd in response to CP's critisism.
How ironic that we now have two contrasting articles about the two.
One pretty positive - The other pretty dang mindless.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - Portis should just shut the hell up and play football. I have yet to here anything come out of his mouth of credible substance other than specific football questions. He's a great running back [and sometime's pretty funny] but that's as far as it goes. As for Lloyd, regardless of whether you think he is doing this for public relations or not, what has come out of his mouth [other than the helmet throwing comments] has been by far more thoughtful and mature than anything I've ever heard from Portis. Don't get me wrong, I like Portis for his laid back persona and his sense of humor. Just don't ask him controversial questions. He'll blow it most times as indicative of his last three interviews [John Thompson, BET and this last one].

[bgforever]

This is actually coming full circle for me as far as my opinion of CP the person [not the player].

After the season, CP was on the John Thompson show running his mouth about everything from bad coaching [I'm paraphrasing] to some players not speaking up when it came to requesting change. He also threw Brandon Lloyd [the person] under the bus when he said that he alienated people. A lot of people here in HR grabbed hold of those comments and were calling for Lloyd's head. Granted, we all saw the low performance of Lloyd as well as the frustration. We also saw Moss', and a few other players frustration along with the low production. I think the frustration was justified by all, but that is an argument that has been beat into the ground in earlier threads here in HR]. What I found perculiar is the fact that you heard nothing from Lloyd in response to CP's critisism.
How ironic that we now have two contrasting articles about the two.
One pretty positive - The other pretty dang mindless.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - Portis should just shut the hell up and play football. I have yet to here anything come out of his mouth of credible substance other than specific football questions. He's a great running back [and sometime's pretty funny] but that's as far as it goes. As for Lloyd, regardless of whether you think he is doing this for public relations or not, what has come out of his mouth [other than the helmet throwing comments] has been by far more thoughtful and mature than anything I've ever heard from Portis. Don't get me wrong, I like Portis for his laid back persona and his sense of humor. Just don't ask him controversial questions. He'll blow it most times as indicative of his last three interviews [John Thompson, BET and this last one].

Thanks, that is why I stay out of the political forum, because I don't know the wha da hell I'm yappin' about most of the time - Ok, I do, but I can't put it into words - which has the same effect -soooo, Portis and I have one thing in common, stick to the fun stuff, - step away from the controversial! :D

[American Soldier]

That's pretty much where I am. While I think that CP gives 100% on the field, he's not the top 5 RB we thought we were getting in the Bailey trade. I don't think there much doubt that, as it stands right now, Denver got the better of that deal it were straight up. Which it wasn't (2nd rounder).

Portis needs to have a Portis-like season this year and really exploit the spread-out nature of the Saunders offense. I am optimistic that he will.

I'm not saying a disagree with you. But why do we at HR equate a player's personality to their ability to perform on the field. Clinton Portis is a ding bat with explosive speed. Point blank.

[BurgundyNGold]

I'm not saying a disagree with you. But why do we at HR equate a player's personality to their ability to perform on the field. Clinton Portis is a ding bat with explosive speed. Point blank.
How so? We might give me leeway to our own players, but I don't think all of us think that our players can do no wrong. In fact I think I said that I tolerate his off the field antics because he has given 100% on the field. I also added that his 100% on the field hasn't yielded what we expected, which was to have a top 5 back. If he doesn't stop acting like a dingbat and start ripping of 50 and 60 yard runs with regularity like he didin Denver and like we know he can, those antics will get old real quick.

[BurgundyNGold]

everyone lets plz not blow this out of control.
You're right. We should ignore that he said that Vick should be allowed to raise, maim and kill dogs because they're on his property. :rolleyes:

[smoak]

I haven't read anything in this thread, but Portis comments sicken me. He embarrassed the franchise and himself by doing what he does best.... Talking.

[redskin_rich]

I made my comment this morning:

http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=961190&postcount=139

It stands...

[smoak]

I made my comment this morning:

http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=961190&postcount=139

It stands...

Completely agree with your POV, but IMO the subject matter is a little too serious and he should have just shut up about it. I'm half wodering with VA supposedly being such a hotbed for thius activity if Redskins aren't envolved???

[redskin_rich]

Completely agree with your POV, but IMO the subject matter is a little too serious and he should have just shut up about it. I'm half wodering with VA supposedly being such a hotbed for thius activity if Redskins aren't envolved???
I seriously doubt it. I have lived in VA for 36 of my soon to be 38 years and I have never encountered an organized dogfight. And I have been into some bad things.
I have seen quite a few naturally occurring dogfigts though and broke them up.

[jaylen]

Well I come from the culture where guys fight dogs pitbulls and Rotweillers, and mastiffs. I have not ever supported it because I love dogs and think its cruel, I have had friends who fight dogs and trained them to fight. In a totally ignorance is bliss moment Portis doesn't understand the moral implications of what he's saying in his mind its an accepted thing having grown up in that sorta culture so I can see why he said it.

But he's wrong and the dog fight thing is wrong and I have stated this to friends that used to engage in the activity.

Quite frankly its hoodlum activity.

Portis has a bad problem of feeling like someone cares about what he thinks, he offers his opinions far too often.

Portis is far too much of a prima dona who i think sometimes erodes team chemistry.

[bgforever]

I'm not saying a disagree with you. But why do we at HR equate a player's personality to their ability to perform on the field. Clinton Portis is a ding bat with explosive speed. Point blank.

This goes for ANY athlete. Whether they are they are the greatest at what they do or not, it DOES matter who is presented to you, at your dinner table, in the presence of dignitaries, at your family gathering, etc., and where they stand, in regards to your beliefs.

It is easy to applaud a player scoring a much needed td to advance in the playoffs, I am sure no one would have a problem with what they do in that regard for a fan's team. However, they must accept the fact, they will also bring on the opinions of others, whether they care or not (insert any of your favorite cliche' remarks about opinions here, but remember, that's all we do at these fan websites -*Uh if you readin' this, join the club).

So its no big deal to me, though he's a favorite of mine, if he stays, goes or whatever, because I am a fan of the team, not of following his every word. Portis delivers on the field, but his stirring of emotions on the SIDELINES, Matters to his coaches, especially if its more of a distraction for the media hounds, than for the ACCOMPLISHMENT of the team. Otherwise, Why does Goddell, the NFL Commish, further punish players, AFTER the law has done so? Because it has something to do with honor, respect for what is still decent about the nature of the players, that play on the field, who have a responsibility to remain upstanding off the field, period. It does matter in certain regards, maybe you or I can't explain. The only reason Portis is not being warned is, that even though it is an opinion of an ongoing investigation, of an NFL player, Portis is not engaged in any act of protest, that immediately would bring legal adjucated heat from the NFL office. He simply put himself in the spotlight to be observed until his resting day, because of his own status as a well known professional athlete with ties to the accussed. Even if he wasn't, he opened that door with his mouth.

[shally]

I seriously doubt it. I have lived in VA for 36 of my soon to be 38 years and I have never encountered an organized dogfight. And I have been into some bad things.
I have seen quite a few naturally occurring dogfigts though and broke them up.

a dogfight is not the kind of event that people post notices for.. i would think you had to be in a trusted group of people who knew each other well because of the fact it is illegal
they were everywhere in new orleans pre katrina, but you still had to know someone to get an invite

[redskin_rich]

a dogfight is not the kind of event that people post notices for.. i would think you had to be in a trusted group of people who knew each other well because of the fact it is illegal
they were everywhere in new orleans pre katrina, but you still had to know someone to get an invite
So, you think many members of the Redskins get this invite?

[shally]

So, you think many members of the Redskins get this invite?

i would hope not but have no way of knowing

i do not even know if any of the Saints were rumored to be invitees

it is definitely a part of thug culture

[Fathead]

For the record, Clinton is 25. Not 26.

[BurgundyNGold]

For the record, Clinton is 25. Not 26.
You're right, his B-Day is September 1, so he's almost 26 but still 25.

[chrisbcbu]

im really sad to see portis makes these comments. Something tells me that Portis does not understand what it takes to raise a dog to become a dogfighter.

And if he does then i feel bad for him. I will still support him on the field because he is a Redskin(and if he is traded i now wouldnt have a problem), but outside i wouldnt go out of my way to go shake his hand.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but sometimes they should know everything that goes on before actually giving their opinion.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

im really sad to see portis makes these comments. Something tells me that Portis does not understand what it takes to raise a dog to become a dogfighter.

And if he does then i feel bad for him. I will still support him on the field because he is a Redskin(and if he is traded i now wouldnt have a problem), but outside i wouldnt go out of my way to go shake his hand.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but sometimes they should know everything that goes on before actually giving their opinion.
If Portis, at almost 26 years old, does not understand what it takes to raise a dog to become a dogfighter, then he is mentally challenged, and should seek professional help.

[Keino]

Some people just do not care one iota about the humane treatment of animals. This is sad, but true. Typically those people are the ones who say things like "Who cares" and "I think people should mind their own business" about stories like this.

Dog fighting, cock fighting and similar events appeal to the most savage nature of men. It's no surprise that these things tend to have appeal to the poorer communities, those who have seen more human suffering than the average person sees and in some ways become desensitized to it.

Im not mad at CP for his view, though I do think it's an ignorant one. I do think people should mind their own business for the most part, and I tend to think that acts that don't have a victim that occur within the confines of ones proeprty should be permitted. The rub is, there is a victim here.......unless you take the view that dogs are no more than property to be discarded at ones whim.

[Hr fan]

Being a dog lover, I couldn't agree more shally. He seems to be the kind of guy who speaks his mind first, then thinks later. This isn't the first time he's been out spoken. I guess that's why i'm not that shocked...

Agree with you and Shally. However, I do not find it surprising that a peerson who has dedicated his life to a violent profession harbors other expressions of violence. Most who do hide their feelings as the smart thing to do. Players from the U seem to be particularly callous in this regard. In my mock drafts I am very cautious about taking a player from the U because so many feel entitled and cause problems that make me question their worth versus their contributions. They seem reluctant to accept discipline, which is the basis of team play/execution.

[Redskinfan28]

Please stop talking Clinton :(

[gibbsisgod]

I will never wear my portis jersey's again. I've taken in 1 rottie that was breed to fight. The owners left him behind when they moved. Very very sad.


I know it goes on, but CP should know better

[smoak]

I seriously doubt it. I have lived in VA for 36 of my soon to be 38 years and I have never encountered an organized dogfight. And I have been into some bad things.
I have seen quite a few naturally occurring dogfigts though and broke them up.

Well I read an article from the guy who is trying to push the auithorities to move on this one and supposedly it is so popular in the VA area that they needed a special task force to hunt down and prosecute the offenders. Plus, my perception of you is that you are not one with the "hip hop culture" where this act has become popular...

[The_Sonny_Of_Sammy]

I've seen photos of injured fighting dogs on the internet. It's beyond cruel. Vick needs to take up cat juggling, it's a bloodless sport.

[chrisbcbu]

I hate when aliens take over someones body and makes them say things they normally wouldnt say!

[hockeygoalie29]

I hate when aliens take over someones body and makes them say things they normally wouldnt say!

:lol1: A nice dose of humor in an otherwise serious thread...

[new guy]

There is no excuse for this poor,young,conceded doesnt matter lets put clintin & vick in a some little pins beat them starve them and only let them out on sundays tell them if they win the game we might give them some food and let them live I bet portis averages 600 yards a game. Most disturbing news I have heard from a redskin ever I always thougt we got the a$$ end of portis/Baily deal now I KNOW WE DID!!!!!!!! Boo for you portis I dont care if you ever carry another football for the REDSKINS .Same for vick he is from right around the corner always a big fan never more.

[shally]

Agree with you and Shally. However, I do not find it surprising that a peerson who has dedicated his life to a violent profession harbors other expressions of violence. Most who do hide their feelings as the smart thing to do. Players from the U seem to be particularly callous in this regard. In my mock drafts I am very cautious about taking a player from the U because so many feel entitled and cause problems that make me question their worth versus their contributions. They seem reluctant to accept discipline, which is the basis of team play/execution.

the league is full of gentle giants who do not take the violence of their sport to other venues.

guys like chris samuels and ray brown do not strike me as violent people outside of football

[RedskinsDave]

He's from The U, of course he'll think the way he does. If you go to Thugs-r-us, you'll be a thug and approve of inhumane acts. CP is not a kid, he is a grown man and a millionaire.

[shally]

He's from The U, of course he'll think the way he does. If you go to Thugs-r-us, you'll be a thug and approve of inhumane acts. CP is not a kid, he is a grown man and a millionaire.

you have hit on it.. adding money to the equation does not make one a better person.. same character.. same character flaws

[GreenspanDan]

i am really really bummed by these comments. dogfighting is one of those things that are just incredibly indefensibly cruel, i can't believe human beings can even lower themselves to such cruelty. to have clinton defend it, that's just heartbreaking and disgusting.

[smoak]

He's from The U, of course he'll think the way he does. If you go to Thugs-r-us, you'll be a thug and approve of inhumane acts. CP is not a kid, he is a grown man and a millionaire.

Smartest post I've read today (granted I've only read like 4 or so)... People want to make excuses for Clinton and that is bull. Too bad Clinton seems to do more talking than running b/c he is much, much better at the latter.

[wewantdallas]

I just hope we're not the only ones who take offense to what Portis said, and I hope it somehow gets back to him that he's really disappointed a portion of the fan base. Maybe it'll make him use his head a little and rethink his position on this "sport" that he seems to think is harmless fun.

[shally]

I just hope we're not the only ones who take offense to what Portis said, and I hope it somehow gets back to him that he's really disappointed a portion of the fan base. Maybe it'll make him use his head a little and rethink his position on this "sport" that he seems to think is harmless fun.

sad, but i would bet it would have zero impact on CP... let's see

[WarEagle]

I just watched the interview with Samuels and Portis in which Clinton made the infamous remarks. Chris is from Mobile and Clinton is from lower Mississippi, and it doesn't appear that they're upset at the concept of dog fighting. Culturally, they're essentially very simple Southern Peckerwoods who think this behavior is normal.

The Michael Vick-dog fighting issue was raised on a local sports talk show down here (Finebaum's show) and one or two Peckerwoods actually called up defending animal sport fighting - cock fighting in their case. Simpleton backwoods folks do this all the time.

Yes, I'm horrified by it all.

[remaxjon]

just watched the video and I'm speechless. I've cheered for drug addicts, wife beaters, and just plain criminals becasue of a jersey color and I won't be doing it anymore. A dog is defenseless and there is no excuse. Clinton owes an apology and some work with the Humane society to make up for such a stupid commet. Also it obvious Chris shares his opinion and should also apologize.

[urobm]

Come on Clinton, I know you are an outspoken guy but you gotta use better judgement.

[WarEagle]

To see the video of Clinton and Chris on Vick, go to the WAVY TV website and scroll down, down, down and you'll see it on the LEFT. Don't confuse it with the 7 minute Clinton/Chris interview on the Redskins beach bash, which appears earlier on the right.

http://www.wavy.com/

[redskin_rich]

I really hope that the backlash from the fans get's back to Portis and he publically insert's foot into mouth. That is the best thing he can do to gain back some respect but it has to be sincere -- no clown outfit for this one.

[The Skinsinator]

Typical Portis. Speaks before thinking. He has an outgoing, charismatic personality exactly opposite of Betts. Don't like the comments but he is entitled to his opinion (but flawed.) His 2007 season is his do/die season for the rest of his career as far as I am concerned.

[LuvSkins17]

I didn't like what he said. I don't condone dog fighting either, but.......... I hope this doesn't go on and on.

I hope we can move on from this. I know he has to be responsible for what comes out of his mouth and along with freedom of speech comes being man enough to take was comes along with what you say out of your mouth.

I really can see this lingering for a while.... I just hope not on this forum...

He should have took Samuels stance,..... I think everyone still loves Chris?

[WarEagle]

I didn't like what he said. I don't condone dog fighting either, but.......... I hope this doesn't go on and on.

I hope we can move on from this. I know he has to be responsible for what comes out of his mouth and along with freedom of speech comes being man enough to take was comes along with what you say out of your mouth.

I really can see this lingering for a while.... I just hope not on this forum...

He should have took Samuels stance,..... I think everyone still loves Chris?

This Vick-dog fighting story is going to hang around for a long time. The subject matter will surely appear as a segment on ESPN's Outside the Lines or HBO's Real Sports, and will surely include the video of Portis and Samuels.

[smoak]

just watched the video and I'm speechless. I've cheered for drug addicts, wife beaters, and just plain criminals becasue of a jersey color and I won't be doing it anymore. A dog is defenseless and there is no excuse. Clinton owes an apology and some work with the Humane society to make up for such a stupid commet. Also it obvious Chris shares his opinion and should also apologize.

Buty that dern wife was just ASKING for it. :D

[chrisbcbu]

just watched the video and I'm speechless. I've cheered for drug addicts, wife beaters, and just plain criminals becasue of a jersey color and I won't be doing it anymore. A dog is defenseless and there is no excuse. Clinton owes an apology and some work with the Humane society to make up for such a stupid commet. Also it obvious Chris shares his opinion and should also apologize.

I agree with this. If he donated his time to the Humane society that would definitely earn some points back with me. That way he can really see what some ppl do to their dogs.

As for Chris he didnt say anything. And i think it was more of "I cant believe he is saying that" kinda laugh.

[S.Taylor36]

I just lost alot of respect for Portis with this comment. I understand that alot of these guys are boys but in a case like this you just say no comment. How can anyone justify these actions? If Vick beat his child would Portis say everyone should mind their business, this type of stuff happens? Come on Clinton, you are better than that I hope.

[Skins7ny]

i am really really bummed by these comments. dogfighting is one of those things that are just incredibly indefensibly cruel, i can't believe human beings can even lower themselves to such cruelty. to have clinton defend it, that's just heartbreaking and disgusting.

Given that human beings are capable of indesribeable cruelty to their fellow man (see the Holocaust, Pol Pot, Darfur, Chairman Mao, Stalin, just in the last century alone, the list unfortunately goes on and on) why would you be surprised at what human beings can do to animals?

[wewantdallas]

I just watched the video hoping it would make me feel better to see the comments in context. Nope. Especially when he said:

"You're going to put a role model in the community behind bars for no good reason, over a dog fight?"

Vick, a role model. Wow. And yeah, Clinton, dog fights, 70 dogs found "covered in bite marks," many mal-nourished, all treated inhumanely for who knows how long, by a bunch of thugs.

I gotta say, I'm going to have a really, really tough time cheering for this guy anymore. If he is that ignorant and that's where his moral compass points, I have very little respect for the man.

The more I hear from him, the more I think he really believes he has no responsibility to anything or anyone and can say whatever he wants, whenever he wants, with no consequences.

[GreenspanDan]

Given that human beings are capable of indesribeable cruelty to their fellow man (see the Holocaust, Pol Pot, Darfur, Chairman Mao, Stalin, just in the last century alone, the list unfortunately goes on and on) why would you be surprised at what human beings can do to animals?

well, we shouldn't let one atrocity dilute another.

[skinfan43]

Here's what I'm thinking...
Our extremely religious head coach won't hire Earnhart Jr. for his NASCAR team because Jr's sponsored by an alcohol-producing company...so I wonder if Portis saying what he did (basically ok'ing a felony act) will make Gibbs want to trade him...not as crazy as it seems, especially when we are dealing with Gibbs' unflappable religious beliefs. We've got Betts long term, Blaylock as a backup, and Rock/maybe some young UDFA as a third RB, so perhaps Gibbs could be entertaining the thought of trading CP after hearing this?
(BTW...I want the Skins to win as bad as anyone on HR, but I am deeply troubled at Portis' comments and would understand if we traded him because of this...I mean, a man formerly at the top of his profession, Don Imus, was fired because of horrible things he said, wouldn't shock me at all if the same thing happened to CP (in this case, via a trade instead of simply releasing him of course).
Any opinions out there on this possibility?

[shally]

Here's what I'm thinking...
Our extremely religious head coach won't hire Earnhart Jr. for his NASCAR team because Jr's sponsored by an alcohol-producing company...so I wonder if Portis saying what he did (basically ok'ing a felony act) will make Gibbs want to trade him...not as crazy as it seems, especially when we are dealing with Gibbs' unflappable religious beliefs. We've got Betts long term, Blaylock as a backup, and Rock/maybe some young UDFA as a third RB, so perhaps Gibbs could be entertaining the thought of trading CP after hearing this?
(BTW...I want the Skins to win as bad as anyone on HR, but I am deeply troubled at Portis' comments and would understand if we traded him because of this...I mean, a man formerly at the top of his profession, Don Imus, was fired because of horrible things he said, wouldn't shock me at all if the same thing happened to CP (in this case, via a trade instead of simply releasing him of course).
Any opinions out there on this possibility?

nothing will happen unless CP continues to vent about this subject

[Skins7ny]

well, we shouldn't let one atrocity dilute another.

I certainly agree with you, although, as awful as cruelty to animals is, I would not equate it with cruelty to humans. I really hope that CP thinks about what he said and offers a sincere apology. And I hope that the authorities throw the book at Vick.

[shally]

I certainly agree with you, although, as awful as cruelty to animals is, I would not equate it with cruelty to humans. I really hope that CP thinks about what he said and offers a sincere apology. And I hope that the authorities throw the book at Vick.


at this point the less that CP says, the better it will be..

as for vick, the legal process needs to go forward without a rush to judgment

[Skins7ny]

Here's what I'm thinking...
Our extremely religious head coach won't hire Earnhart Jr. for his NASCAR team because Jr's sponsored by an alcohol-producing company...so I wonder if Portis saying what he did (basically ok'ing a felony act) will make Gibbs want to trade him...not as crazy as it seems, especially when we are dealing with Gibbs' unflappable religious beliefs. We've got Betts long term, Blaylock as a backup, and Rock/maybe some young UDFA as a third RB, so perhaps Gibbs could be entertaining the thought of trading CP after hearing this?
(BTW...I want the Skins to win as bad as anyone on HR, but I am deeply troubled at Portis' comments and would understand if we traded him because of this...I mean, a man formerly at the top of his profession, Don Imus, was fired because of horrible things he said, wouldn't shock me at all if the same thing happened to CP (in this case, via a trade instead of simply releasing him of course).
Any opinions out there on this possibility?

I doubt that this causes Gibbs to trade CP, at most it will lead to a stern talk. I imagine that they have had stern talks before, but I don't think this forces a trade in any way. It is just an example of a player not getting it, in terms of his moral code, but I have never heard anyone accuse CP of being involved in anything illegal, including dog fighting. The best thing CP can do is apologize and then shut up about it. I don't think you can compare CP's comments to the long-standing career of Imus, who has a track record of comments going back decades.

[shally]

I doubt that this causes Gibbs to trade CP, at most it will lead to a stern talk. I imagine that they have had stern talks before, but I don't think this forces a trade in any way. It is just an example of a player not getting it, in terms of his moral code, but I have never heard anyone accuse CP of being involved in anything illegal, including dog fighting. The best thing CP can do is apologize and then shut up about it. I don't think you can compare CP's comments to the long-standing career of Imus, who has a track record of comments going back decades.

not sure the cap would allow the skins to ship out portis without a crushing hit.. it is better that everything just quiet down

[Skins7ny]

at this point the less that CP says, the better it will be..

as for vick, the legal process needs to go forward without a rush to judgment

Of course, Vick gets due process and is innocent until proven guilty, if and when charges are brought. However, based on the information that has been made public, I will be shocked if he isn't charged with a crime over the dog fighting that went on at his house. I suspect that it will be pretty major, Vick will have to be suspended and the Falcons are really going to regret having traded Schaub this off-season.

[James F. Quinn]

I want the Skins to win as bad as anyone on HR, but I am deeply troubled at Portis' comments and would understand if we traded him because of this...I mean, a man formerly at the top of his profession, Don Imus, was fired because of horrible things he said, wouldn't shock me at all if the same thing happened to CP (in this case, via a trade instead of simply releasing him of course).
Any opinions out there on this possibility?

Imus didn't have the cap impact that Portis' release or trade would have. That's a factor.

The southern roots aspect of this might mean that there are born-again Christians in those dogfighting crowds. People have a way of justifying things that they have grow up with, no matter how shocking they may appear to others. Southern slaveholders cited biblical justification for slavery.

It's hard to see how a Christian HC like Joe would react to all this. Some of those great Super Bowl years players might not have been choirboys, either. But I don't think anything like the internet and 24-hour sports coverage of today was focused on them.

I wonder if this has been kicked around on the Riggo show?

[skinfan43]

Imus didn't have the cap impact that Portis' release or trade would have. That's a factor.

The southern roots aspect of this might mean that there are born-again Christians in those dogfighting crowds. People have a way of justifying things that they have grow up with, no matter how shocking they may appear to others. Southern slaveholders cited biblical justification for slavery.

It's hard to see how a Christian HC like Joe would react to all this. Some of those great Super Bowl years players might not have been choirboys, either. But I don't think anything like the internet and 24-hour sports coverage of today was focused on them.

I wonder if this has been kicked around on the Riggo show?
That's a great (as well as sad and troubling) point JFQ...still curious to hear Gibbs reaction to this, has he said anyhting anywhere on the subject yet? (BTW, CP's qoutes are in the running for the "Just Shut Up!" award on ESPN Radio's Mike&Mike Show this week...and with good reason, apparently).

[RedskinsReaper21]

I've taken in 1 rottie that was breed to fight. The owners left him behind when they moved. Very very sad.

Man, I've had enough trouble raising a well bred Rottie from puppyhood - can't magine how hard it would be to raise one with that kind of past. Props to gibbsisgod.

My 2 cents, although most of you wont agree with me.

Dog fighting is not a new thing - it's been going on for centuries. I'm not condoning it. I do not enjoy seeing dogs fight - in fact, I'm sickened by it. It's been going on and will continue. Entire breeds have been developed for the sole purpose of dog fighting - this shows how prevalent it was in societies all over the world. There are fighting breeds originating from EVERY continent.
I'm not saying that just because it happens it's right. It's not. It's wrong. But there are worse wrongs in the world....sometimes I'm amazed at where Americans focus their attention. The energy and news time devoted to stupida$$ Vick or Don Imus could have been used educate people on human suffering in their own back yards (dont even need to look as far as my back yard, or Darfur). I'm a dog lover as much as everyone here, but there is so much human suffering going on in this world that should be getting peoples attention. I've seen both humans and animals suffering and honestly, my heart goes out to the humans while the animals are an after-thought.
That said, it's a football forum, and Vick is a football player...and it's the offseason.

[BurgundyNGold]

Imus didn't have the cap impact that Portis' release or trade would have. That's a factor.

The southern roots aspect of this might mean that there are born-again Christians in those dogfighting crowds. People have a way of justifying things that they have grow up with, no matter how shocking they may appear to others. Southern slaveholders cited biblical justification for slavery.

It's hard to see how a Christian HC like Joe would react to all this. Some of those great Super Bowl years players might not have been choirboys, either. But I don't think anything like the internet and 24-hour sports coverage of today was focused on them.

I wonder if this has been kicked around on the Riggo show?
Unrelated but CBS might end up being liable for a good chunk of the $20M Imus was contracted for.

[James F. Quinn]

Unrelated but CBS might end up being liable for a good chunk of the $20M Imus was contracted for.

I have to think that lawyers for both sides have been poring over that contract since the dismissal day.

In general, I think that the corporations tend to have some kind of catchall- morality/reflects badly/failure to follow standards clause in there to give them an out. It's all contestable, of course and will buy many yachts and luxury cars for the legal talent on both sides.

Has Imus signed with anyone since then? XM or such?

[RedskinsATW!]

RR21:

Have to agree with you. Let me make this clear: I DO NOT CONDONE DOGFIGHTING AND AGREE IT IS, AND IT SHOULD BE, ILLEGAL!! However, with that disclaimer out of the way, it's not exactly new or even news.

There are many people who consider deer hunting as cruel but that doesn't stop me (yes, I know it's presently a legal activity until the 2nd Amendment is mis/reinterpreted). Many of my fellow Virginians fox hunt and if those dogs get a hold of that fox, well.... Same with raccoon hunting. Are we now going to outlaw hunting? (PETA members no response is necessary, we already know your position) Just questions I ponder. CP should've supported Vick and not the activity. I won't hire him as my PR person when he retires. So there, Clinton.

But enough of this heavy stuff. It's lunch time. Why don't we go grab some of those McNuggets and hamburgers because we all know how well those animals were treated before their deaths, right?

[CNYSkinFan]

RR21:

Have to agree with you. Let me make this clear: I DO NOT CONDONE DOGFIGHTING AND AGREE IT IS, AND IT SHOULD BE, ILLEGAL!! However, with that disclaimer out of the way, it's not exactly new or even news.

There are many people who consider deer hunting as cruel but that doesn't stop me (yes, I know it's presently a legal activity until the 2nd Amendment is mis/reinterpreted). Many of my fellow Virginians fox hunt and if those dogs get a hold of that fox, well.... Same with raccoon hunting. Are we now going to outlaw hunting? (PETA members no response is necessary, we already know your position) Just questions I ponder. CP should've supported Vick and not the activity. I won't hire him as my PR person when he retires. So there, Clinton.

But enough of this heavy stuff. It's lunch time. Why don't we go grab some of those McNuggets and hamburgers because we all know how well those animals were treated before their deaths, right?
None of that is even remotely the same thing. Hunting has the benefit of providing sustinence (meat) and or materials (leather, fur) needed for life. While Hunting is no longer neccessary in modern society it's roots are still based on something that contributes to the good of society. Same with eating meat.

Dog Fighting is for pure sport. it is training animals that normally would not behave that way and betting on the victor. No good comes from the death of the loser dog (and often the winner dog is mortally wounded as well). It is a viscious viscious activity fueled by drug lords and other unsavory types.

Equating it to hunting is plainly idiotic IMO.

[BurgundyNGold]

None of that is even remotely the same thing. Hunting has the benefit of providing sustinence (meat) and or materials (leather, fur) needed for life. While Hunting is no longer neccessary in modern society it's roots are still based on something that contributes to the good of society. Same with eating meat.

Dog Fighting is for pure sport. it is training animals that normally would not behave that way and betting on the victor. No good comes from the death of the loser dog (and often the winner dog is mortally wounded as well). It is a viscious viscious activity fueled by drug lords and other unsavory types.

Equating it to hunting is plainly idiotic IMO.
Thanks for posting what I was thinking. :awesomewo

[Ibleedburgundy]

I just lost all respect for CP. What a douche.

[RedskinsATW!]

So noted. I've obviously touched a nerve so my work here is almost done.

Ever ate Fox? Raccoon? Those are for pure sport. I'm just saying we're splitting the hair pretty fine on this "animal cruelty" thing while we lambaste CP. We are comfortably ensconced on our moral high horse and are very willing to point the finger at him for supporting a friend. I don't think CP is endorsing dog fighting and neither am I. We're willing to throw CP under the bus just because he's not indignant or uncomfortable to the world of dogfighting. The argument for the drug lords is the same specious argument made for "assault/scary weapons" ban. I don't buy either one. But that's my opinion. I'm sure some will be some calling for my head because I have an opinion that doesn't mirror theirs.

I just think we're being a little hypocritical in being so hard on Portis. It's his opinion. That's all. I'm comfortable in my hypocrisy. Maybe some of you are less so. Flame on. Now pass me some of that veal.

[Swirvi]

As far as Portis. I don't agree with him, but he deserves his own opinion without people calling him names.

I think anytime you show support for anything that is illegal, you should be and deserve to be called anything people throw at you.

[BurgundyNGold]

So noted. I've obviously touched a nerve so my work here is almost done.

Ever ate Fox? Raccoon? Those are for pure sport. I'm just saying we're splitting the hair pretty fine on this "animal cruelty" thing while we lambaste CP. We are comfortably ensconced on our moral high horse and are very willing to point the finger at him for supporting a friend. I don't think CP is endorsing dog fighting and neither am I. We're willing to throw CP under the bus just because he's not indignant or uncomfortable to the world of dogfighting. The argument for the drug lords is the same specious argument made for "assault/scary weapons" ban. I don't buy either one. But that's my opinion. I'm sure some will be some calling for my head because I have an opinion that doesn't mirror theirs.

I just think we're being a little hypocritical in being so hard on Portis. It's his opinion. That's all. I'm comfortable in my hypocrisy. Maybe some of you are less so. Flame on. Now pass me some of that veal.
Hunting is a primal instinct that has been part of the human condition for thousands of years. Eating meat is as well, as evidenced by our incisor, bicuspid and canine teeth. Breeding animals to fight other animals for the sake of entertainment or gambling is not. That is the difference. One is part of human psychology and physiology, one is not. Stop trying to turn this into an anti-hunting, anti-meat thread.

[CNYSkinFan]

So noted. I've obviously touched a nerve so my work here is almost done.

Ever ate Fox? Raccoon? Those are for pure sport. I'm just saying we're splitting the hair pretty fine on this "animal cruelty" thing while we lambaste CP. We are comfortably ensconced on our moral high horse and are very willing to point the finger at him for supporting a friend. I don't think CP is endorsing dog fighting and neither am I. We're willing to throw CP under the bus just because he's not indignant or uncomfortable to the world of dogfighting. The argument for the drug lords is the same specious argument made for "assault/scary weapons" ban. I don't buy either one. But that's my opinion. I'm sure some will be some calling for my head because I have an opinion that doesn't mirror theirs.

I just think we're being a little hypocritical in being so hard on Portis. It's his opinion. That's all. I'm comfortable in my hypocrisy. Maybe some of you are less so. Flame on. Now pass me some of that veal.

Listen I clearly said that Hunting could have a benefit to it, not that it always did. I also pointed out it is not needed in modern society. I oppose trophy hunting as well. But many people eat raccoon or use their hides for clothing, same with fox.

And btw I am for the Assault weapons ban either.

Name one...one intrinsic value to Dog fighting that is positive for society. I dare you. You can't. Equating it to things that have had a positive impact for a long time i just crazy.

Oh yeah and I don't eat veal either and refuse to let my family eat it as well.

Maybe you should take off the Burgandy and Gold glasses. I have already made allowances for CP being an idiot and young (much to the chagrin of some on here). But he is still a callous idiot for making the comments and needs to be eduacted on what a cruel activity the herpes spreading, pot smuggling, thug wanna be, role model Vick happened to be involved in.

[RedskinsATW!]

OK. Dogs hunt in packs. Does that mean they're meant for this? Obviously so due to their canine teeth and they've done it for thousands of years.

Since you're not paying attention, I-will-slow-down-and-type-slower. Read my first post. I'll highlight it to save you the time and monumentous effort:

There are many people who consider deer hunting as cruel but that doesn't stop me

Obviously my point was to make this anti-hunting/anti-meat thread :rolleyes: . Jeez, man, relax. Throw Portis under the bus for his opinion if you want. Maybe he should've taken a poll before he formed his opinion. If Coach comes out in support of amnesty on the immigration issue I don't know how he's gonna keep his job on this forum ;) Next thing somebody will remind me that I only have 140 posts or something.

[Keino]

Hunting is a primal instinct that has been part of the human condition for thousands of years. Eating meat is as well, as evidenced by our incisor, bicuspid and canine teeth. Breeding animals to fight other animals for the sake of entertainment or gambling is not. That is the difference. One is part of human psychology and physiology, one is not. Stop trying to turn this into an anti-hunting, anti-meat thread.

I think you would be hard pressed to make a legitimate argument that watching and being involved in the inhumane practice of animal fighting isnt as engrained into our psychology as eating meat, and both activities represent a choice in today's world. Bull Fighting and other Animal fighting (and to a lesser extent racing) are activities that have been going on since....well the development of bi-cuspids and canine teeth. Human beings have long since made it a practice to watch, support and organize battles of savage beasts, be they Lions in Rome, Bulls in Spain and Mexico, or Roosters in the Red states. Dogfighting is less palatable because many of us have Dogs as pets/friends/family members.

Don't you think his point about the way Veal is made is a legitimate one? Eating Veal isnt necessary to survive, and frankly, the way a baby deer is starved and then bled is as inhumane as any dogfight. Trapping? My grandfather was a trapper. He sold the pelts for extra income, but another inhumane practice that is socially accepted wherein an animal can suffer a painful and tortuous death in a trap for days, ultimately starving to death in most cases.

By and large, I agree with both you and CNY, but I don't think his points are attempting to turn the thread into an anti-meat/anti-hunting issue and I certainly think there are legitimate parallels to be made.

[BurgundyNGold]

OK. Dogs hunt in packs. Does that mean they're meant for this? Obviously so due to their canine teeth and they've done it for thousands of years.
Dogs don't hunt each other in packs as a general practice. When given the choice, dogs will avoid conflict with other dogs. It is only when great men, nay, visionaries like Mike Vick get involved that the dogs have the overwhelming desire to fight other dogs for the sheer enjoyment of it all. ;)

Obviously my point was to make this anti-hunting/anti-meat thread :rolleyes: . Jeez, man, relax. Throw Portis under the bus for his opinion if you want. Maybe he should've taken a poll before he formed his opinion. If Coach comes out in support of amnesty on the immigration issue I don't know how he's gonna keep his job on this forum
A poll won't help someone like Portis who doesn't get right from wrong on this issue. I'm just thankful that he wasn't down at Vick's place for any of these events. That would make him just as guilty, IMO.

Next thing somebody will remind me that I only have 140 posts or something.
Your arguments against hunting an meat-eating belie your little emoticon. Clearly you have a problem with both and are using this as a forum to not only advance your argument for Portis' wordsmithing as it is your personal agenda on those topics.

Don't be so presumptious. How many posts you have has nothing to do with the merits of your argumements. This position of yours would be asinine, insenstive and possibly sociopathic whether you had 140 posts or 14,000.

[BurgundyNGold]

I think you would be hard pressed to make a legitimate argument that watching and being involved in the inhumane practice of animal fighting isnt as engrained into our psychology as eating meat, and both activities represent a choice in today's world. Bull Fighting and other Animal fighting (and to a lesser extent racing) are activities that have been going on since....well the development of bi-cuspids and canine teeth. Human beings have long since made it a practice to watch, support and organize battles of savage beasts, be they Lions in Rome, Bulls in Spain and Mexico, or Roosters in the Red states. Dogfighting is less palatable because many of us have Dogs as pets/friends/family members.
Bull fighting is more hunting than dog fighting and I think you know that. Besides, I don't agree with bull "fighting" either, personally. It truly is little more than a slaughter flush with pomp and pageantry and hardly a humane practice.

Don't you think his point about the way Veal is made is a legitimate one? Eating Veal isnt necessary to survive, and frankly, the way a baby deer is starved and then bled is as inhumane as any dogfight. Trapping? My grandfather was a trapper. He sold the pelts for extra income, but another inhumane practice that is socially accepted wherein an animal can suffer a painful and tortuous death in a trap for days, ultimately starving to death in most cases.
I do, but that argument could be extended to include the wholesale farming of animals for human consumption, which is what the poster wanted and not what this thread is about. As such, I won't discuss it here.

By and large, I agree with both you and CNY, but I don't think his points are attempting to turn the thread into an anti-meat/anti-hunting issue and I certainly think there are legitimate parallels to be made.
We'll just have to see how it goes from here. ;)

[CNYSkinFan]

I think you would be hard pressed to make a legitimate argument that watching and being involved in the inhumane practice of animal fighting isnt as engrained into our psychology as eating meat, and both activities represent a choice in today's world. Bull Fighting and other Animal fighting (and to a lesser extent racing) are activities that have been going on since....well the development of bi-cuspids and canine teeth. Human beings have long since made it a practice to watch, support and organize battles of savage beasts, be they Lions in Rome, Bulls in Spain and Mexico, or Roosters in the Red states. Dogfighting is less palatable because many of us have Dogs as pets/friends/family members.

Sure but using that logic war and murder are also part of human behavior since the dawn of time as well. Stretch that argument far enough and EVERYTHING is moral. I know you are not stretching it and just partaking in theoretical discussion though. So yes Cruelty is a part of human nature, and so is wanting to correct that cruelty and better ourselves as well. Dog fighting is a symptom of that cruelty, Now it is time for the correction

Don't you think his point about the way Veal is made is a legitimate one? Eating Veal isnt necessary to survive, and frankly, the way a baby deer is starved and then bled is as inhumane as any dogfight. Trapping? My grandfather was a trapper. He sold the pelts for extra income, but another inhumane practice that is socially accepted wherein an animal can suffer a painful and tortuous death in a trap for days, ultimately starving to death in most cases.

By and large, I agree with both you and CNY, but I don't think his points are attempting to turn the thread into an anti-meat/anti-hunting issue and I certainly think there are legitimate parallels to be made.

I am personally against hunting. I never saw the need for it, but I respect others wishes to do so in a humanbe way. If you hunt I think you should eat or use what you kill, same with fishing. Trophy hunting is just not acceptable in my eyes.

Same with Veal. i won't eat it. There is no way an animal should have to live the life that these poor cows must live just to make my beef more tender.

[CNYSkinFan]

OK. Dogs hunt in packs. Does that mean they're meant for this? Obviously so due to their canine teeth and they've done it for thousands of years.

Wild dogs are pack animals, and domestic dogs (which pit bulls and other fighting dogs are) retain some pack elements. But they are most certainly not akin to their wild cousins. That instinct has been dulled by thousands of years of domesticity.

In the wild Dogs do not indiscriminately attack each other either. Maybe in cases of establishing dominance or teeritory and it rarely lethal, except in extreme cases of starvation.

Also to get a Dog to fight is actually against the pack mentality you describe. In a pack dogs will either adhere to set roles of dominance or be forcibly evicted from the pack. Not killed for sport. Wild Dog fights are usually quick with the loser able to immediately retreat and the winner showing dominance in the pack. In illegal activities the lesser dog usually tries to retreat and is either pushed back into the ring to be killed or cornered and unable to retreat is illed. It is a disgusting vile practice with no real equation.



Obviously my point was to make this anti-hunting/anti-meat thread :rolleyes: . Jeez, man, relax. Throw Portis under the bus for his opinion if you want. Maybe he should've taken a poll before he formed his opinion. If Coach comes out in support of amnesty on the immigration issue I don't know how he's gonna keep his job on this forum Next thing somebody will remind me that I only have 140 posts or something.

I don't know how to respond to this other then to say it is pretty foolhardy and non sequitor...espescially from someone with less then 150 posts :rolleyes:

[RedskinsATW!]

[QUOTE][Your arguments against hunting an meat-eating belie your little emoticon. Clearly you have a problem with both and are using this as a forum to not only advance your argument for Portis' wordsmithing as it is your personal agenda on those topics.
/QUOTE]

Obviously, you've figured me out. :banghead:

I-will-slow-down-some-more: I HUNT AND EAT MEAT!!! You've missed the whole point but I don't have the time to explain it. Please read AND UNDERSTAND what I've written earlier. I condemned dogfighting three times in the last 30 minutes. Damn, all this because I won't crucify Portis for his opinion. He was supporting his friend, not dogfighting. I guess "Thought Crime" has now been codified.

As for my "asinine, insenstive and possibly sociopathic" position, please know what it is before you label it (I understand I'm asking a lot here). I shall refrain from making a medical diagnosis on you from an internet post. You do whatever your medical degree allows.:Peace:

We now return to our previously scheduled thread already in progress.

[remaxjon]

I love to hunt and do it as often as possible. I also eat what I kill but if its a big buck I'm all the happier. I also enjoy a nice piece of veal.

With that being said even a sicko like me knows that Clinton is an idiot and to compare hunting and buying a piece of meat at shoppers to dog fighting is at the least a streatch and at most very very stupid. Its all about your opinion and I hope to never meet the person who thinks dog fighting is ok. I heard my dog cry out in pain because I accidently closed the car door on his paw and it broke my heart. I can't imagine watching my dog or any other dog fighting to the death.


Now I think I'm going to use my Portis jersey to clean up my dogs poop this evening.

[CNYSkinFan]

[QUOTE][Your arguments against hunting an meat-eating belie your little emoticon. Clearly you have a problem with both and are using this as a forum to not only advance your argument for Portis' wordsmithing as it is your personal agenda on those topics.
/QUOTE]

Obviously, you've figured me out. :banghead:

I-will-slow-down-some-more: I HUNT AND EAT MEAT!!! You've missed the whole point but I don't have the time to explain it. Please read AND UNDERSTAND what I've written earlier. I condemned dogfighting three times in the last 30 minutes. Damn, all this because I won't crucify Portis for his opinion. He was supporting his friend, not dogfighting. I guess "Thought Crime" has now been codified.

As for my "asinine, insenstive and possibly sociopathic" position, please know what it is before you label it (I understand I'm asking a lot here). I shall refrain from making a medical diagnosis on you from an internet post. You do whatever your medical degree allows.:Peace:

We now return to our previously scheduled thread already in progress.
Can the owners make an emoiticon for me of a smiley nailing himself to a cross? Thank you.

[GreenspanDan]

i can only assume that anyone who would defend vick's actions (or by proxy portis' comments) is suffering from a lack of information, since assuming a lack of human decency is just too depressing.

thus, in the interest of enlightenment, i offer the first result found when i googled dogfighting. it offers a small taste of this culture:

http://www.workingpitbull.com/dogfighting.htm

if that just seems like sensationalism or propaganda to you, i suggest you ask anyone involved in a pit rescue organization about the subject.

[RedskinsATW!]

Can the owners make an emoiticon for me of a smiley nailing himself to a cross? Thank you.

LMAO! No prob. Emotional issues get people that way. I can't stand dogfighting but I don't hate Portis because he doesn't "hate" it. I think it's barbaric and inhumane. All I meant was some people think of hunting as "cruel" yet it's legal. I, personally, don't feel it's cruel.

The PETA members see eating meat as barbaric and inhumane. I don't (probably because I'm not the cow/chicken/etc). Yes, I see the moral difference in hunting/eating meat and dog fighting but maybe others don't. That's their opinion/feelings. I have mine. CP has his. I'm not quite ready to flagellate him because he supported Vick (who has yet to convicted or even indicted on the matter). Because CP supports his friend Vick, who allegedly but most obviously (sarcasm added) supports dogfighting, means I have to be against Portis is not a segue I'm willing to entertain... yet. Since the 1st Amendment is so well represented here, let's see if the 6th and 8th pull their weight. If Vick is guilty, I hope he is punished appropriately.

ATW/OUT! :Peace:

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Obviously dog fighting is illegal, rightfully so. No one should support dog fighting including Portis.

But I am not going to stop rooting for him. I will be yelling like hell everytime he touches the ball next season. My 2 year old is now on his second Portis jersey, and I will put it on him with pride.

I don't value these players for their comments or stances on certain subjects. I value them because they run fast, throw far or hit hard. If he wants to take up for dog fighting. Shame on him, but on Sunday I don't care. Just score points. If he is involved in dog fighting, then he should be arrested, prosecuted and suspended from the league accordingly. He is not my role model. He will not be my son's role model. He, like all athletes and humans, often say and do stupid things.

We cheer for bad people all the time. Did people stop cheering for Jason Kidd who was convicted of beating his wife (far worse than dog fighting IMO), or Ray Lewis, or the Bengals as an entire organization. It would be nice if all of our favorite athletes said and did the right thing all the time, but that's unrealistic. Saying you will never root for Portis again is ridiculous.

[wewantdallas]

I-will-slow-down-some-more: I HUNT AND EAT MEAT!!! You've missed the whole point but I don't have the time to explain it.

Or the ability.

Please read AND UNDERSTAND what I've written earlier. I condemned dogfighting three times in the last 30 minutes. Damn, all this because I won't crucify Portis for his opinion. He was supporting his friend, not dogfighting.

Is that why, in an earlier post, you say:
CP should've supported Vick and not the activity.

You yourself admitted his comments came off as supporting the dogfighting in your first post...which is it?

Portis was OBVIOUSLY implying that he thought dogfighting was something that shouldn't be a crime, something that people shouldn't worry about and something that Vick had a right to do "with his property."

Pathetic. It goes way beyond hunting and meat consumption. That argument is ridiculous. This is a practice that basically tortures these animals mentally AND physically for long and extended periods of time and in a calculated and controlled way. There is no trade-off, i.e. food being provided in the case of hunting. It's reveling in humanity's basest desires and habits.

And quit having such a martyr complex, for crying out loud. If you want to express an opinion, fire away, but enough with the "guess I'm going to be crucified for this" comments and the patronizing peace and smiley faces after you insult someone.

[wewantdallas]

i can only assume that anyone who would defend vick's actions (or by proxy portis' comments) is suffering from a lack of information, since assuming a lack of human decency is just too depressing.

thus, in the interest of enlightenment, i offer the first result found when i googled dogfighting. it offers a small taste of this culture:

http://www.workingpitbull.com/dogfighting.htm

if that just seems like sensationalism or propaganda to you, i suggest you ask anyone involved in a pit rescue organization about the subject.

That is amazing stuff, GreenspanDan. Incredibly difficult to look at that.

Someone should send this to Portis. If he can look at this stuff and still hold onto his opinion about dogfighting, then he is subhuman imo.

[Sweepea436]

The saddest part about it is how many of these dogs have to be put to sleep due to injuries or because they can't assimilate back to normal life.

A guy I worked with had two pitbulls, and they were the gentlest dogs I've ever met. Just a shame to hear about it going on..... these are the kind of things I like to pretend don't exist until it gets brought up in the news....

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Obviously dog fighting is illegal, rightfully so. No one should support dog fighting including Portis.

But I am not going to stop rooting for him. I will be yelling like hell everytime he touches the ball next season. My 2 year old is now on his second Portis jersey, and I will put it on him with pride.

I don't value these players for their comments or stances on certain subjects. I value them because they run fast, throw far or hit hard. If he wants to take up for dog fighting. Shame on him, but on Sunday I don't care. Just score points. If he is involved in dog fighting, then he should be arrested, prosecuted and suspended from the league accordingly. He is not my role model. He will not be my son's role model. He, like all athletes and humans, often say and do stupid things.

We cheer for bad people all the time. Did people stop cheering for Jason Kidd who was convicted of beating his wife (far worse than dog fighting IMO), or Ray Lewis, or the Bengals as an entire organization. It would be nice if all of our favorite athletes said and did the right thing all the time, but that's unrealistic. Saying you will never root for Portis again is ridiculous.

I agree 100%. I love Portis the player, and I have just learned that, as a human being, he is not that great, but that's not why I watch the games on Sunday. His comments were embarrasing. With that said, I would love that the players I root for are as good off the field as they are on it, but I guess that's impossible.

[Redskinmayhem]

guys/gals, I don't know if anyone has said it by now but we need to separate these players from who they are as people. If we do that, we won't be as upset when one of our beloved comes out in support of a jack-ass like Vick. I love Portis but his comments really left me with a bad taste in my mounth. I'm sure he's not an Evil person but I couldn't disagree more on his opinions on Vick.

[Sweepea436]

I agree 100%. I love Portis the player, and I have just learned that, as a human being, he is not that great, but that's not why I watch the games on Sunday. With that said, I would love that the players I root for are as good off the field as they are on it, but I guess that's impossible.

Looks like he just lost a bunch of votes if he decides to run for office!! But commentating is still there, no doubt. Michael Irvin totes drugs around and he's still going strong!

[RedskinsReaper21]

Some knowledge and a bit of history. I know a good amount about dogs, breeds, and breeding so I'm pretty sure the info I'm providing is accurate.
Dog fights historically are not to the death. I think this is also the case with Vick's dogs (yes, I believe they are his dogs). Note that they found the dogs injured, not dead. So when a dog is defenseless and retreats, they do not throw it back in, rather, they declare a winner. This does not happen often as Pit Bulls possess a 'quality' known as "gameness". This means that they will not retreat but keep fighting. If they are injured, if they are fighting a bear, whatever, there is no quit in a Pit Bull. Pit Bulls were BRED to fight dogs - many Pit Bulls (I know some great ones) are just plain dog aggressive. They want to fight any dog but are the sweetest to humans. Pit Bulls were bred to have a natural instinct to fight other dogs - thats what they were made for. By the same token, humans had to break up the fights so that the losing dog would not be killed (again, Pit Bulls do not retreat, so human intervention is necessary). Breaking up a dog fight is a dangerous task so inherently, Pit Bulls are NOT human aggressive. Of course, training and socialization can make any poodle dog aggressive or any Pit Bull human aggressive. But naturally, pit bulls are dog aggressive and human friendly.
Same goes for all dogs. German Shepherds and Rottweilers possess a natural instinct to herd, Jack Russels possess a natural instinct to hunt rodents, Dobermans are always alert, and by the same token, Pit Bulls have a natural instinct to fight dogs.
I am absolutely against breed specific laws - saying that Pit Bulls or Rottweilers or Doberman are mean or aggressive or whatever is just plain wrong. A dog owner has to understand his dogs natural instincts and constructively direct them. Uneducated or irresponsible dog owners are what cause aggressive dogs.

Edit: One good thing did come out of dogfighting. Some great breeds of dog (if raised corretly)

[Keino]

Sure but using that logic war and murder are also part of human behavior since the dawn of time as well. Stretch that argument far enough and EVERYTHING is moral. I know you are not stretching it and just partaking in theoretical discussion though. So yes Cruelty is a part of human nature, and so is wanting to correct that cruelty and better ourselves as well. Dog fighting is a symptom of that cruelty, Now it is time for the correction

Lets be clear. I was only using that argument to counter the "Eating meat is a natural part of the human psychology" bit. Because Savagery and violence are as much a part of that psychology as well. That doesn't excuse dogfighting in the least, but it does validate on some level ATW's parallel.

I am personally against hunting. I never saw the need for it, but I respect others wishes to do so in a humanbe way. If you hunt I think you should eat or use what you kill, same with fishing. Trophy hunting is just not acceptable in my eyes.

Same with Veal. i won't eat it. There is no way an animal should have to live the life that these poor cows must live just to make my beef more tender.

I tend to agree with your view on hunting. How do you feel about Trapping?

I find Veal to be very tasty, but like you, after learning about the process, I can't eat it. I would love to eventually give u meat period, but Im addicted.

[Keino]

Bull fighting is more hunting than dog fighting and I think you know that. Besides, I don't agree with bull "fighting" either, personally. It truly is little more than a slaughter flush with pomp and pageantry and hardly a humane practice.


I do, but that argument could be extended to include the wholesale farming of animals for human consumption, which is what the poster wanted and not what this thread is about. As such, I won't discuss it here.


We'll just have to see how it goes from here. ;)

I disagree with the premise that Bull fighting is more like hunting. It's generally not even close to a fair fight, as the Bull is usually given some sedative that affects it's ability. It amounts to slaughter of an animal unable to defend itself, with thousand cheering on. I think we agree that the practice is not humane.

I took the argument regarding Veal at face value. I don't think the intention was to spread it out to other areas, but rather just to show how normal, society accepted behavior can be somewhat contradictory to those who have very strong opinions about Portis' opinion.

Me, I don't care what Portis says. I don't look to Football players for moral guidance, I look to them to be football players.

[James F. Quinn]

In the wild Dogs do not indiscriminately attack each other either. Maybe in cases of establishing dominance or teeritory and it rarely lethal, except in extreme cases of starvation.

If Disney were making a film about dogfighting, he would have some wise animal using James Earl Jones' voice, explaining how it is All Part of the Great Circle of Life.

[remaxjon]

I agree 100%. I love Portis the player, and I have just learned that, as a human being, he is not that great, but that's not why I watch the games on Sunday. His comments were embarrasing. With that said, I would love that the players I root for are as good off the field as they are on it, but I guess that's impossible.


Why is that impossible? I would love to see the Redskins take a stand not only on this issue but other off the field problems. When a member of the Redskins says or does something stupid that players employer has the right to do something about. I believe that the huge majority of players in the NFL are great guys who work really hard and would appreciate that type of stance from ownership. I think doing the right thing would eventually make this team better on and off the field.

When a player gets in trouble with the law there is usually an apology and a suspension that follows and you hear the rest of the players saying so and so has learned there lesson and support them. You don't hear players saying its ok he hit his wife that happend behind closed doors, or he was barely above the legal limit they should change those drunk driving laws. What Portis did was condone a criminal act and he should face some type of consequence for it.

[LuvSkins17]

Wow,............ and it keeps on growing?

[CNYSkinFan]

Lets be clear. I was only using that argument to counter the "Eating meat is a natural part of the human psychology" bit. Because Savagery and violence are as much a part of that psychology as well. That doesn't excuse dogfighting in the least, but it does validate on some level ATW's parallel.

I tend to agree with your view on hunting. How do you feel about Trapping?

I find Veal to be very tasty, but like you, after learning about the process, I can't eat it. I would love to eventually give u meat period, but Im addicted.

I am ignorant in a large part to trapping. I would not be opposed to it if the traps are checked daily, but I understand that they are not. Allowing an animal to starve to death because you are too lazy to actually go hunt does not sit too well with me.

[NCskinsfanatic]

I am ignorant in a large part to trapping. I would not be opposed to it if the traps are checked daily, but I understand that they are not. Allowing an animal to starve to death because you are too lazy to actually go hunt does not sit too well with me.
I'm from the south, grew up around alot of situations that would be deemed inhumane, but that does not mean I condone them. I have hunted deer and duck, gone fishing in the sounds and rivers but you only kill or keep what you can eat as far as I'm concerned. I don't trap or run dogs from a pickup, infact I havent hunted since my early twenties, but I still like to fish.

[redskin_rich]

Me, I don't care what Portis says. I don't look to Football players for moral guidance, I look to them to be football players.
That is true but being a football player puts him on a pedestal and what he says is going to be heard by the masses. I personally don't care what he does in his private life, as long as it stays there and I don't have to hear or know about it. But if he is going to open his mouth and defend something stupid and barbaric, then he is open for all the criticism he is getting, plain and simple. It's not on the level of a Marge Schott making racist remarks or calling Hitler a great man but it is worthy of public condemnation nonetheless.

[RedskinsATW!]

Originally Posted by RedskinsATW!
I-will-slow-down-some-more: I HUNT AND EAT MEAT!!! You've missed the whole point but I don't have the time to explain it.


Or the ability.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RedskinsATW!
Please read AND UNDERSTAND what I've written earlier. I condemned dogfighting three times in the last 30 minutes. Damn, all this because I won't crucify Portis for his opinion. He was supporting his friend, not dogfighting.


Is that why, in an earlier post, you say:

Quote:
CP should've supported Vick and not the activity.


You yourself admitted his comments came off as supporting the dogfighting in your first post...which is it?

Portis was OBVIOUSLY implying that he thought dogfighting was something that shouldn't be a crime, something that people shouldn't worry about and something that Vick had a right to do "with his property."

Pathetic. It goes way beyond hunting and meat consumption. That argument is ridiculous. This is a practice that basically tortures these animals mentally AND physically for long and extended periods of time and in a calculated and controlled way. There is no trade-off, i.e. food being provided in the case of hunting. It's reveling in humanity's basest desires and habits.

And quit having such a martyr complex, for crying out loud. If you want to express an opinion, fire away, but enough with the "guess I'm going to be crucified for this" comments and the patronizing peace and smiley faces after you insult someone.

That's it. You've caught "the 'Tater." In view of this post I now concede. Portis should be traded to the Raiders for Lamont Jordan with all due haste. We should also throw in a couple first day draft picks to them next year just to be consistent. He also feels helmet laws are "a personal decision." We cannot tolerate folks with these attitudes and wanton lawlessness in the Redskins organization. Even if he can run for 1,500 yards per season. How's that for my <snicker> "Martyr Complex?"

[bgforever]

Here's what I'm thinking...
Our extremely religious head coach won't hire Earnhart Jr. for his NASCAR team because Jr's sponsored by an alcohol-producing company...so I wonder if Portis saying what he did (basically ok'ing a felony act) will make Gibbs want to trade him...not as crazy as it seems, especially when we are dealing with Gibbs' unflappable religious beliefs. We've got Betts long term, Blaylock as a backup, and Rock/maybe some young UDFA as a third RB, so perhaps Gibbs could be entertaining the thought of trading CP after hearing this?
(BTW...I want the Skins to win as bad as anyone on HR, but I am deeply troubled at Portis' comments and would understand if we traded him because of this...I mean, a man formerly at the top of his profession, Don Imus, was fired because of horrible things he said, wouldn't shock me at all if the same thing happened to CP (in this case, via a trade instead of simply releasing him of course).
Any opinions out there on this possibility?

Not far fetched at all. However, I see Joe Gibbs being as merciful, as he is persistent in his beliefs. Clinton Portis, right now, is what I would call my son's age. Some parts of the brain have or haven't developed for him to understand the true recoil of his "announcement" (what happens with a media source who has access to networks and the internet then reaches MILLIONS in seconds!). Like you I DO NOT HATE Portis and lets make that clear as bell for you SLANTERS, SPINNERS, etc. I hate what he said and because it IS HIS SPOKEN CONVICTION, it is HIS WORD and HIS STAND, then he must take the repercussions of his actions.

So if you don't like it, DON'T KILL the Messengers of what can follow. After all, Did we MAKE Portis speak? NO!
Of his own free will he spoke and now like his good statements, he will have to live with what happens from his bad ones. Happens to all of us, as LIFE's little lesson, when still growing in whatever anatomical form it takes on us as a human being.

To those who oppose your opinion and mine alike, Try not to focus on the fact that some of us brought up, WHAT THE SKINS CAN DO. It is a fact that they can do it, but don't hate us, just because we let you know they can do it. Breaking the law in US is supposed to garner scorn, disapproval, etc. If for reasons of protest we go against a law, so people can be MORE humane in protection of rights to the Constitution, fine, - animal rights, fine, trade, that's fine too, but, to intentionally due harm for gain or pleasure - Wrong!

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Lets be clear. I was only using that argument to counter the "Eating meat is a natural part of the human psychology" bit. Because Savagery and violence are as much a part of that psychology as well. That doesn't excuse dogfighting in the least, but it does validate on some level ATW's parallel.



I tend to agree with your view on hunting. How do you feel about Trapping?

I find Veal to be very tasty, but like you, after learning about the process, I can't eat it. I would love to eventually give u meat period, but Im addicted.
Typos, if read the right way, can be funny.

[wewantdallas]

Me, I don't care what Portis says. I don't look to Football players for moral guidance, I look to them to be football players.

I don't look to players for moral guidance either, but I DO care about character on the team I love. People can differ on everything from religion to politics and still respect each other's character. This is different to me.

And that's because dogfighting is just so amazingly cruel and, I'll say it, evil.

Personally, I think the way people treat animals says a lot about their character. My grandfather helped teach me that, and he was an avid hunter. That's because animals are innocent, often defenseless living things that usually look to us for care. We had a family next door to us who got a couple dogs and threw their long-time cat out of their house. Just threw it out and left it to fend for itself. We ended up taking it in, and when they moved, we asked if we could just keep it. They were surprised it was still even around, and said, "Oh, yeah, sure you can have it."

That's just beyond belief to me. So you can imagine how I feel about something infinitely worse like dogfighting.

To me, Portis' defense of that practice speaks volumes about his character. I'm willing to give him a chance to prove me wrong on that, but as of now, I think his comments not only embarrass but SHAME the team and once again reinforce the stereotype of the typical new-breed NFL Player being nothing more than a rich, ignorant thug. And as a Redskin fan for longer than Portis has been alive, that pisses me off greatly.

[wewantdallas]

That's it. You've caught "the 'Tater." In view of this post I now concede.

Thank you. I accept your concession.

[Sweepea436]

That is true but being a football player puts him on a pedestal and what he says is going to be heard by the masses. I personally don't care what he does in his private life, as long as it stays there and I don't have to hear or know about it. But if he is going to open his mouth and defend something stupid and barbaric, then he is open for all the criticism he is getting, plain and simple. It's not on the level of a Marge Schott making racist remarks or calling Hitler a great man but it is worthy of public condemnation nonetheless.

Yes he IS in the public eye now and he SHOULD act accordingly........ but I doubt he spent very much time in any of his practices working on speaking with the media. He didn't go out looking for a reporter to give this statement too. He's not Sean Penn-ing it and trying to get his opinion on everything out there........ These people (pro athletes) are CONSTANTLY asked tons of questions...... alot of them repeatedly. I can see him getting asked this question and answering just to get them away from him. Not too far fetched if you think about it............ doesn't make it right, nor do I agree with it (I don't even hunt).... but like someone else said earlier, I just want to see him carry the football.... maybe wear a funny wig to the post game. I'll find my own moral road.

That said, the crap he's catching is justified and expected (that's why reporters ask these questions - for the one answer that doesn't mimic the rest)......... but I doubt he seriously advocates/supports/condones dogfighting. I think it was more a "It's his life - I don't care what he does" statement, poorly worded, and over hyped.

[Keino]

I am ignorant in a large part to trapping. I would not be opposed to it if the traps are checked daily, but I understand that they are not. Allowing an animal to starve to death because you are too lazy to actually go hunt does not sit too well with me.

It's not a laziness issue. Trappers typically set dozens upon dozens of traps. My grandfather would check his every 2-3 days. There is no way time would allow him to check them everyday.

[Keino]

I don't look to players for moral guidance either, but I DO care about character on the team I love. People can differ on everything from religion to politics and still respect each other's character. This is different to me.

And that's because dogfighting is just so amazingly cruel and, I'll say it, evil.

Personally, I think the way people treat animals says a lot about their character. My grandfather helped teach me that, and he was an avid hunter. That's because animals are innocent, often defenseless living things that usually look to us for care. We had a family next door to us who got a couple dogs and threw their long-time cat out of their house. Just threw it out and left it to fend for itself. We ended up taking it in, and when they moved, we asked if we could just keep it. They were surprised it was still even around, and said, "Oh, yeah, sure you can have it."

That's just beyond belief to me. So you can imagine how I feel about something infinitely worse like dogfighting.

To me, Portis' defense of that practice speaks volumes about his character. I'm willing to give him a chance to prove me wrong on that, but as of now, I think his comments not only embarrass but SHAME the team and once again reinforce the stereotype of the typical new-breed NFL Player being nothing more than a rich, ignorant thug. And as a Redskin fan for longer than Portis has been alive, that pisses me off greatly.

But you see, it's a newly rich ignorant thug thing, and I mean that with all sincereity. I'm not excusing dog fighting, because I really am opposed to the practice, but I grew up in the "hood" so to speak and I understand a bit about those who would excuse and even condone dog fighting.

For me, this is a Middle Class Values vs Ghetto Values issue. We have this expectation here, because most of us have middle class values, that one who is rich should immediately embrace this value system. Ghetto values (and I am using this term, because I don't really have a better one to use) places a different value on human life than does Middle class values. Largley, because as I wrote earlier, the conditions of ghettos desensitizes people to the ills of the ghetto. Where you and I might find it grotesque that the old street lady who hangs out at the 7-11 will talk to herself and then proceed to pick up random garbage and eat it, the kids in that neighborhood used to seeing that lady may find her behavior normal and perhaps even funny. (Thats a real example from my childhood BTW)

People from this environment will not see the problem with starving a dog and "training" (in which case training a fight dog usually means depriving it of essentials) used to fight a similarly trained (abused) dog. Seeing malnourished animals is nothing when you see malnourished humans on a daily basis.

Newport News, VA is ghetto. Now does any of that excuse Michael Vick? Absolutley not. He has a duty to himself and his career to know the legality of all of his endeavors, even if it is providing a house for your boys who you know are going to be into dogfighting.

Clinton Portis is from Laurel, Mississippi. I don't know much about that town, but I can't imagine that many people are doing well there. What I am saying is this: I am not sure that Portis' comments, while ignorant, reflect on him as being bad chracter guy. I think they largely represent a difference in socio-economic cultural values and I would be willing to bet, that if you polled any random "ghetto" that many of the sentiments expressed would mirror Portis'.

Again, doesn't make them right, but I think they should be viewed with a certain amount of "perspective".

Those of us who grew-up around animals are understandably repulsed by the practice of dog fighting and the defense of it. I just thought I'd put somethign out there to add to the discussion and something else you may or may not have considered.

[Skins7ny]

I don't look to players for moral guidance either, but I DO care about character on the team I love. People can differ on everything from religion to politics and still respect each other's character. This is different to me.

And that's because dogfighting is just so amazingly cruel and, I'll say it, evil.

Personally, I think the way people treat animals says a lot about their character. My grandfather helped teach me that, and he was an avid hunter. That's because animals are innocent, often defenseless living things that usually look to us for care. We had a family next door to us who got a couple dogs and threw their long-time cat out of their house. Just threw it out and left it to fend for itself. We ended up taking it in, and when they moved, we asked if we could just keep it. They were surprised it was still even around, and said, "Oh, yeah, sure you can have it."

That's just beyond belief to me. So you can imagine how I feel about something infinitely worse like dogfighting.

To me, Portis' defense of that practice speaks volumes about his character. I'm willing to give him a chance to prove me wrong on that, but as of now, I think his comments not only embarrass but SHAME the team and once again reinforce the stereotype of the typical new-breed NFL Player being nothing more than a rich, ignorant thug. And as a Redskin fan for longer than Portis has been alive, that pisses me off greatly.

:goodpost:

[wewantdallas]

Those of us who grew-up around animals are understandably repulsed by the practice of dog fighting and the defense of it. I just thought I'd put somethign out there to add to the discussion and something else you may or may not have considered.

Actually, I meant to compliment your earlier post, because I thought it brought up some very good points, and this one does, too. Good insights.

[redskin_rich]

In response to Keino's insightful post, while I understand the points he's making, the bottom line is that neither Portis or Vick are in the ghetto anymore. They are both highly paid athletes at the top of their profession and like it or not, what they say and do will influence others. I'm not saying that Portis needs to develop some sensitivity that isn't there but he needs to know when to be silent and it doesn't take much thought on this. If he wants to be outspoken and take the demonization that goes with it, that is his prerogative but don't get upset when the team stops selling your jerseys or when the fans don't like you anymore.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

i can only assume that anyone who would defend vick's actions (or by proxy portis' comments) is suffering from a lack of information, since assuming a lack of human decency is just too depressing.

thus, in the interest of enlightenment, i offer the first result found when i googled dogfighting. it offers a small taste of this culture:

http://www.workingpitbull.com/dogfighting.htm

if that just seems like sensationalism or propaganda to you, i suggest you ask anyone involved in a pit rescue organization about the subject.
Good lord. I can't even describe how terrible looking at those pictures makes me feel.
I really can't imagine what kind of a sorry excuse for a human being could enjoy such a thing.

[WarEagle]

Clinton's comments were just featured on ESPN radio's news update. Also, ESPN radio will talk about the matter in a few minutes. I think this story is building, as attested to by the HUGE response to this thread.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Clinton's comments were just featured on ESPN radio's news update. Also, ESPN radio will talk about the matter in a few minutes. I think this story is building, as attested to by the HUGE response to this thread.
They are also on the first page of ESPN.com. Both an article and the video is available.
Having now actually seen the video, I have to say that I'm lucky that I care very little about the vast majority of players as people. They pretty much are just names and numbers on a jersey for me. And that's good, because I have absolutely no respect for Clinton Portis as a human being right now, and if I did care about him, it would be extremely difficult to cheer for him.

[redskin_rich]

There is a press release here on Redskins.com (http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=26335). Not many words but to the point. I guess it's as much as we should expect at this point.

[Redskinmayhem]

Here's a link to the "Apology" from the Redskins on behalf of CP and Sammy's apology. FWIW, I think it's waaaaay to little, waaaaay to late. These guys told me exactly who they are as people when they first made the statements. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AkdC05YWKdO6jX8GpP5cGzVDubYF?slug=ap-vickinvestigation-redskins&prov=ap&type=lgns

For that, they are no longer anything but football players in my eyes. My Loyalty will always be with the team, and not with the name/number.

[hockeygoalie29]

Portis clarified his remarks on the NFL Network, but did not offer an apology. To paraphrase, he said he doesn't support dog fighting but believes there are bigger issues and that the Michael Vick story is being over sensationalized.

I agree, if this was anyone other than Vick, it wouldn't have even made the local newspaper. Dog fighting is of course wrong, but how many people were up in arms about it before this incident?

I wasn't condoning dogfighting," Portis said. "Hunting is legal. You've got spearing sharks and 'The World's Greatest Catch' on TV. All those are animals. What I'm saying is that I don't think that issue is as big as they made it with the jail time and the consequences he's going to end up facing if proven guilty. Wait until it's proven to jump on the bandwagon.

What I was saying was that there are bigger issues than what Michael Vick does on his own property. Now all of a sudden, I'm getting all the negativity, and I don't even have any dogs. I think the whole situation is blown out of proportion.

Link (http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20070523-123333-3640r.htm)

[redskin_rich]

Here's a link to the "Apology" from the Redskins on behalf of CP and Sammy's apology. FWIW, I think it's waaaaay to little, waaaaay to late. These guys told me exactly who they are as people when they first made the statements. http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AkdC05YWKdO6jX8GpP5cGzVDubYF?slug=ap-vickinvestigation-redskins&prov=ap&type=lgns

For that, they are no longer anything but football players in my eyes. My Loyalty will always be with the team, and not with the name/number.
Samuels didn't say anything wrong, unless you want to blame him for laughing while Portis was running off at the mouth. I think Samuels was laughing because he couldn't believe what Portis was saying to the media.
As for Portis, I always thought he was a clown, so my opinion of him is the same as it has been.
Hopefully he learns a little discretion from here on out.

[American Soldier]

Ok Clinton, I'm letting you off the hook. Just stop hanging out with the wrong crowd. For instance, your boy Ricky:

Ricky Williams says, "I thought this stuff would help keep me clean."

[RedskinsReaper21]

Keino. Great Post. I agree 100%.
I've seen my share of human suffering around this neck of the woods. Animals too. I grew up mostly in a town of new immigrants (most came from Russia, Morocco, Yemen) and have some "funny" stories from childhood. As children develop they gain a set of values - imprinting so to speak. Very hard to change this. I think many of my country are desensitized to violence because of all the wars and the holocaust imagery since we can remember. Hence there were A LOT of stray animals for periods of time (the only thing that truely got rid of them was the influx of Thai workers...). Someone mentioned a story about a cat. It's common practice here to throw a cat (or even dog) out. You can't just throw them out of the door though because they will come back so you have to drive them somewhere far - usually a Kibbutz because the hope is that they will be taken care of there.
I'm giving Clinton a pass on this one.

[chrisbcbu]

Portis clarified his remarks on the NFL Network, but did not offer an apology. To paraphrase, he said he doesn't support dog fighting but believes there are bigger issues and that the Michael Vick story is being over sensationalized.

I agree, if this was anyone other than Vick, it wouldn't have even made the local newspaper. Dog fighting is of course wrong, but how many people were up in arms about it before this incident?



Link (http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20070523-123333-3640r.htm)

He also said that he was trying to say that they shouldnt be going after vick until they have all the evidence in.

he did get some points back with me. Tho i wasnt as hard on him as some other ppl on this board.

[wewantdallas]

Portis clarified his remarks on the NFL Network, but did not offer an apology. To paraphrase, he said he doesn't support dog fighting but believes there are bigger issues and that the Michael Vick story is being over sensationalized.

I agree, if this was anyone other than Vick, it wouldn't have even made the local newspaper. Dog fighting is of course wrong, but how many people were up in arms about it before this incident?


Personally, I was even more disappointed to see Portis on NFL Network. Instead of coming out and doing some damage control, he basically REITERATED what he said before, then tried to compare dogfighing to hunting and "shark spearing on TV," i.e. if both of those things are "okay," why is dogfighting a big deal?

Again, just stubborn ignorance on his part. I thought it made his case WORSE by what he said there, made him look like a bigger, as Riggo called him yesterday, "buffoon." (In fact, Riggins suggested he get professional help.)

As for Vick, of COURSE it's going to make big news. He's a huge NFL star, one of the most known names. To think that someone with that much going for him still finds it necessary (and thinks it's okay) to be involved in something so pathetic as dogfighting is a story in and of itself. We'll see how that story plays out.

Samuels said the right things in his statement and had the right tone. Portis was just his usual, "I can say whatever I want, even if I don't know what the hell I'm talking about" self. Very disappointing.

[Redskinmayhem]

Samuels didn't say anything wrong, unless you want to blame him for laughing while Portis was running off at the mouth. I think Samuels was laughing because he couldn't believe what Portis was saying to the media.
As for Portis, I always thought he was a clown, so my opinion of him is the same as it has been.
Hopefully he learns a little discretion from here on out.


I may have jumped the gun on Sammy a bit...However I don't know how animal cruelty could be considered a laughing matter. I agree about Portis. I knew he was always an idiot but I tried to look the other way. Well, now I fully and openly accept he's an idiot. He does give 110% when he's on the field though so as a Redskins PLAYER, I love the guy.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Make us proud Clinton..make us proud!! :rolleyes:

[S.Taylor36]

Clinton is an idiot. I have lost so much respect for him as a person. I don't care if he was saying it jokingly or whatever excuse he comes up with. Fact is now CP has become part of a story that should have never involved him or the Redskins. Now the commissioner released this statement about CP

"I'm extremely disappointed and embarrassed for Clinton Portis," he said, according to the Post. "This does not reflect the sentiments of the Redskins, the NFL or NFL players."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2879881

I have two rescuse dogs that I adopted so this subject hits home with me. Both of my dogs were abandoned at a construction site tied to a pole and left for dead for no reason. They are brother and sister and now they have a great home. To me, my pets are a part of my family and I could never condone such stupid and senseless acts or comments in regards to animal cruelty.

[chrisbcbu]

Personally, I was even more disappointed to see Portis on NFL Network. Instead of coming out and doing some damage control, he basically REITERATED what he said before, then tried to compare dogfighing to hunting and "shark spearing on TV," i.e. if both of those things are "okay," why is dogfighting a big deal?

Again, just stubborn ignorance on his part. I thought it made his case WORSE by what he said there, made him look like a bigger, as Riggo called him yesterday, "buffoon." (In fact, Riggins suggested he get professional help.)

As for Vick, of COURSE it's going to make big news. He's a huge NFL star, one of the most known names. To think that someone with that much going for him still finds it necessary (and thinks it's okay) to be involved in something so pathetic as dogfighting is a story in and of itself. We'll see how that story plays out.

Samuels said the right things in his statement and had the right tone. Portis was just his usual, "I can say whatever I want, even if I don't know what the hell I'm talking about" self. Very disappointing.

Here is most of the interview as much as i can remember.

"He basically said he does not support dog fightning nor does he have any pets except fish. He did say though he does not think anyone should pick on Vick until charges are filed against him and he is found guilty. He also confirmed his comments basically stating there are bigger fish to fry other then dog fighting.

They asked him about his promise to make the NFC championship game. He said he did not promise that but said unless they make that game the team would consider the season a loss. He feels they have so much talenet that there is no reason they cant make it. If they don't he feels the team will be broken up by management.

He also talked about his knee. He said during the off-season he was working hard on his upper body to get his should ready. Once OTA's started his started lifting hard with his legs and running which caused his knee a problem. He said his knee will be fine with a few weeks rest."

He basically came out and said he doesnt condone dog fighting or hunting(since both have to deal with killing animals), and that they are much bigger things going on right now that they should be worried about other than dogfighting.

[bergiemoore]

Personally, I was even more disappointed to see Portis on NFL Network. Instead of coming out and doing some damage control, he basically REITERATED what he said before, then tried to compare dogfighing to hunting and "shark spearing on TV," i.e. if both of those things are "okay," why is dogfighting a big deal?

Again, just stubborn ignorance on his part. I thought it made his case WORSE by what he said there, made him look like a bigger, as Riggo called him yesterday, "buffoon." (In fact, Riggins suggested he get professional help.)

I'll play Devil's advocate for a minute here.

Portis' point in that statement is that we glorify certain types of animal cruelty, like sport hunting, while condemning other kinds, usually those used for gambling. This is not a argument to make. It is one that I usually see made by vegetarian groups, and not people trying to excuse MORE animal cruelty, however. One can argue that our opinions about what is cruel, and what is acceptable are inconsistent.


As for Vick, of COURSE it's going to make big news. He's a huge NFL star, one of the most known names. To think that someone with that much going for him still finds it necessary (and thinks it's okay) to be involved in something so pathetic as dogfighting is a story in and of itself. We'll see how that story plays out.


The fact is, this incident has garnered a disproportionate response from the media, and even from Congress, especially in light of the fact that no arrest has been made and no charges have filed against Vick. Celebrities always whine about the inordinate amount of negative press they get when they do anything wrong, because they are lighting rods for every lawyer, journalist, and politician trying to make a name for him or herself. This may not be fair, but then again, it's also not fair that Vick makes 10 times more money then I'll see in my entire life while never having had to complete college. You take the good with the bad, in my opinion. If you know your living a glass house, then don't do stupid things.


Samuels said the right things in his statement and had the right tone. Portis was just his usual, "I can say whatever I want, even if I don't know what the hell I'm talking about" self. Very disappointing.

Portis has a tendency to run off at the mouth. As the saying goes, it's better to keep your mouth shut and have everyone think you're a fool, than to open it, and prove them right.

[bgforever]

Portis clarified his remarks on the NFL Network, but did not offer an apology. To paraphrase, he said he doesn't support dog fighting but believes there are bigger issues and that the Michael Vick story is being over sensationalized.

I agree, if this was anyone other than Vick, it wouldn't have even made the local newspaper. Dog fighting is of course wrong, but how many people were up in arms about it before this incident?



Link (http://www.washtimes.com/sports/20070523-123333-3640r.htm)

I was on this topic the day it happened (Vick that is). As for Portis, I guess he sees now, there's "3" sides to the story. Hopefully he will chill and get back on that gridiron next week. This off week is Perfect to heal some bad vibes among all parties, those concerned and should quell opinions as the days go by.
The better part of his statements was to come back with a statement on Monday, saying he doesn't actually support the acts of dogfights, etc. Goddell was on his heels too, so Portis may have dodged a bullet.

As for Samuels, fine gentleman, caught up in the wrong thing at the wrong time, with a remark that didn't fit either, but at least he atoned for it, by explaining himself. I think most people figured Samuels was thinking of the ongoing joking mood from the conversation before the INFAMOUS Portis remark, which also surprised Samuels.

Guess we can now go back to our regularly scheduled program :)

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Here is most of the interview as much as i can remember.

"He basically said he does not support dog fightning nor does he have any pets except fish. He did say though he does not think anyone should pick on Vick until charges are filed against him and he is found guilty. He also confirmed his comments basically stating there are bigger fish to fry other then dog fighting.

They asked him about his promise to make the NFC championship game. He said he did not promise that but said unless they make that game the team would consider the season a loss. He feels they have so much talenet that there is no reason they cant make it. If they don't he feels the team will be broken up by management.

He also talked about his knee. He said during the off-season he was working hard on his upper body to get his should ready. Once OTA's started his started lifting hard with his legs and running which caused his knee a problem. He said his knee will be fine with a few weeks rest."

He basically came out and said he doesnt condone dog fighting or hunting(since both have to deal with killing animals), and that they are much bigger things going on right now that they should be worried about other than dogfighting.
I saw the interview this morning. A few other things I picked up on.
1. He takes the position that dogs are property, and an owner of property should be able to do whatever they want with property.
2. As stated above in the post quoted, he said this is the last chance with this team.

[Redskinmayhem]

But you see, it's a newly rich ignorant thug thing, and I mean that with all sincereity. I'm not excusing dog fighting, because I really am opposed to the practice, but I grew up in the "hood" so to speak and I understand a bit about those who would excuse and even condone dog fighting.

For me, this is a Middle Class Values vs Ghetto Values issue. We have this expectation here, because most of us have middle class values, that one who is rich should immediately embrace this value system. Ghetto values (and I am using this term, because I don't really have a better one to use) places a different value on human life than does Middle class values. Largley, because as I wrote earlier, the conditions of ghettos desensitizes people to the ills of the ghetto. Where you and I might find it grotesque that the old street lady who hangs out at the 7-11 will talk to herself and then proceed to pick up random garbage and eat it, the kids in that neighborhood used to seeing that lady may find her behavior normal and perhaps even funny. (Thats a real example from my childhood BTW)

People from this environment will not see the problem with starving a dog and "training" (in which case training a fight dog usually means depriving it of essentials) used to fight a similarly trained (abused) dog. Seeing malnourished animals is nothing when you see malnourished humans on a daily basis.

Newport News, VA is ghetto. Now does any of that excuse Michael Vick? Absolutley not. He has a duty to himself and his career to know the legality of all of his endeavors, even if it is providing a house for your boys who you know are going to be into dogfighting.

Clinton Portis is from Laurel, Mississippi. I don't know much about that town, but I can't imagine that many people are doing well there. What I am saying is this: I am not sure that Portis' comments, while ignorant, reflect on him as being bad chracter guy. I think they largely represent a difference in socio-economic cultural values and I would be willing to bet, that if you polled any random "ghetto" that many of the sentiments expressed would mirror Portis'.

Again, doesn't make them right, but I think they should be viewed with a certain amount of "perspective".

Those of us who grew-up around animals are understandably repulsed by the practice of dog fighting and the defense of it. I just thought I'd put somethign out there to add to the discussion and something else you may or may not have considered.

Keino, I do understand your point however I don't think it is very valid here. I know you aren't saying so but IMHO, calling it "ghetto" values is making an excuse for behavior, despite your disclaimer. I didn't grow up in the ghetto but I wouldn't say my family was middle class either. We group a very modest latino family. Despite that, my parents instilled in me a "respect" for all living things. My father took me fishing and hunting on a regular basis as well. My parents aren't the crazy dog lovers that I have become either, they really don't even "pet" their dogs much however they are repulsed by the idea of forcing animals to fight each other for human entertainment. There are some things that are basic human law. These things evolve over time. several hundred years ago, times were different as were these human laws. Dogfighting was much more prevalent as was stoning a woman for cheating on her husband or cutting off a thieves hands. As times change, so do these unspoken human laws. We're all human beings, rich or poor, black or white and we all must abide by these human laws. Maybe the poster from Tel Aviv has seen different but there is no "Real" poverty in the USA like in 3rd world countries *unless* it's by choice. In other countries, these human laws are different. cutting off thieves hands still flies in some parts of the world as does dog fighting I'm sure. While still wrong, I don't think they can be held "as accountable". I realize I'm making nearly the same argument as you, just pushing the boundaries out a little further. My point is the USA isn't a 3rd world country. Ghetto or middle class shouldn't make a difference. I do agree that human life has way more value than animal life (unlike what some PETA members might have you believe) but animals should be respected, especially domesticated animals.

[Redskinmayhem]

I saw the interview this morning. A few other things I picked up on.
1. He takes the position that dogs are property, and an owner of property should be able to do whatever they want with property.
2. As stated above in the post quoted, he said this is the last chance with this team.

I'm not sure a dog can be considered "property". Property to me only includes inanimate objects. Living, breathing beings from dogs to fish deserve a different level of "ownership" and responsibility, one that includes respect for life. If you have a living being in your care or possession then it is your duty to do what ever you can (within reason) for that life to prosper, *OR* do what is in the life's best interest as for example, euthanizing(sp?) an animal sometimes is in its best interest. insects and plants however blur the line even further....I killed a spider last night:lol1:

[Redskinfan28]

It is evident that Portis does not have the ability to control the situation, so the Redskins should simply advise him not to speak to the media. Samuels obviously handled this the right way, and I truly believe he was caught off guard in the interview.

Its sad that Samuels did unbelievable charity work this summer, which got next to no play, and this minor and stupid event is front page news.

[bgforever]

I'm not sure a dog can be considered "property". Property to me only includes inanimate objects. Living, breathing beings from dogs to fish deserve a different level of "ownership", one that includes respect for life. insects and plants however blur the line even further....I killed a spider last night:lol1:


OMG! Your the one that killed the "Itsy Bitsy Spider!!!" :imshock:

For this, I am not reading your posts anymore, I will remove your name from every stone, tablet, Omlet, er I mean object, and parchment!" Your name will be mud and you dwell in the place of, of,.....its so horrible I can't explain!

[Sweepea436]

Personally, I was even more disappointed to see Portis on NFL Network. Instead of coming out and doing some damage control, he basically REITERATED what he said before, then tried to compare dogfighing to hunting and "shark spearing on TV," i.e. if both of those things are "okay," why is dogfighting a big deal?

Again, just stubborn ignorance on his part. I thought it made his case WORSE by what he said there, made him look like a bigger, as Riggo called him yesterday, "buffoon." (In fact, Riggins suggested he get professional help.)

As for Vick, of COURSE it's going to make big news. He's a huge NFL star, one of the most known names. To think that someone with that much going for him still finds it necessary (and thinks it's okay) to be involved in something so pathetic as dogfighting is a story in and of itself. We'll see how that story plays out.

Samuels said the right things in his statement and had the right tone. Portis was just his usual, "I can say whatever I want, even if I don't know what the hell I'm talking about" self. Very disappointing.

See.... I'm a little different here. I can't stand when people back track over what they said and do "damage control". To me that shows just as much lack of character as making the statement. They asked him about it again, he said it's not a serious as they made it out to be (imagine that, the P.C. turbocharged media blowing something way out of proportion) and that's it. He definitley went about sharing his opinion with the wrong words, and probably should have went the "no comment" route so the gnat like reporters would leave him alone (for a minute)..... I'm sure this will get spun up in to an international incident before it's all said and done.... unless they find something more sensational to dwell on........ then it will drop off the map nad not be so serious anymore:rolleyes:

[bergiemoore]

Newport News, VA is ghetto. Now does any of that excuse Michael Vick? Absolutley not. He has a duty to himself and his career to know the legality of all of his endeavors, even if it is providing a house for your boys who you know are going to be into dogfighting.


Newport News is a suburban sprawl with pockets of HUD housing. The East End, where he grew up, is pretty crappy, but it is by no means, the ghetto. Vick's problems arise from his sense of entitlement that he gained while being Warwick High's QB. He was given a pass on everything because he gave Warwick the best shot at beating the other schools in the area, although Vick was not as good as Iverson, or even Ronald Curry. His brother Marcus had an even bigger ego, because he was the heir apparent.

Having grown up in Newport News (I was born about 8 blocks from where Vick grew up), myself, I can tell you without a doubt that this town does NOT see dogfighting as anything but abhorrent behavior. You can't blame this on Vick's environment. Plenty of other people came out of the area without such misconceptions. If the mans acting the fool, it's because the man's a fool.

[Redskinmayhem]

You can't blame this on Vick's environment. Plenty of other people came out of the area without such misconceptions. If the mans acting the fool, it's because the man's a fool.

Agreed 100%.

[S.Taylor36]

COMMISH CALLS OUT CLINTON

Have we mentioned that we really like this new Commissioner that the NFL hired last year?

Proving yet again that he "gets it," Roger Goodell body slammed Redskins running back Clinton Portis on Tuesday for his asinine remarks to a Virginia television station regarding Michael Vick's potential involvement in dog fighting.

"I'm extremely disappointed and embarrassed for Clinton Portis," Goodell said in a written statement, according to the Washington Post. "This does not reflect the sentiments of the Redskins, the NFL or NFL players."

We agree with everything Goodell said, except the last part. We're not so sure that the remarks from Portis don't reflect that sentiments of other NFL players. Animal rights groups have repeatedly alleged that there is a dog-fighting subculture in the NFL. Nonchalant remarks from players like Portis do nothing to calm such suspicions.

Meanwhile, Portis continues to talk, and shouldn't. Per David Elfin of the Washington Times (who regards this site as one rung above -- or perhaps below -- animal fighting), Portis had a chance to apologize for his comments during a Tuesday appearance on NFL Network, but didn't.

"I wasn't condoning dogfighting," Portis said. "Hunting is legal. You've got spearing sharks and 'The World's Greatest Catch' on TV. All those are animals. What I'm saying is that I don't think that issue is as big as they made it with the jail time and the consequences he's going to end up facing if proven guilty. Wait until it's proven to jump on the bandwagon.

"What I was saying was that there are bigger issues than what Michael Vick does on his own property. Now all of a sudden, I'm getting all the negativity, and I don't even have any dogs. I think the whole situation is blown out of proportion."

Clinton, one of the reasons that it is blown out of proportion is that idiots like you are saying that, if Vick was involved in dog fighting, he shouldn't be punished. It's what Portis said last week to WAVY-TV, and if we look closely at his remarks to NFLN, he's basically still saying the same thing, only with different words: "I don't think that the issue is as big as they made it with the jail time and the consequences he's going to end up facing if proven guilty."

People go to jail for doing illegal things. Portis doesn't think Mike Vick should go to jail if he was involved in dog fighting. In other words, Portis doesn't think dog fighting should be illegal. Therefore, he condones dog fighting.

At least left tackle Chris Samuels realizes that what Portis said was inappropriate, and dumb. Samuels was laughing as Portis made his initial remarks, and he's not laughing now.

"We were kind of joking the whole time we were there," Samuels said. "Once that question came about, I was kind of caught off guard. We were wrong for joking about the whole situation. We don't agree with dogfighting. Right after we got off [camera], I said [to myself], 'This might be a mess.'"

Samuels was right. Portis was wrong. And we think that his image as a funny and engaging semi-superstar has taken a big hit in the process.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I'm not sure a dog can be considered "property". Property to me only includes inanimate objects. Living, breathing beings from dogs to fish deserve a different level of "ownership" and responsibility, one that includes respect for life. If you have a living being in your care or possession then it is your duty to do what ever you can (within reason) for that life to prosper, *OR* do what is in the life's best interest as for example, euthanizing(sp?) an animal sometimes is in its best interest. insects and plants however blur the line even further....I killed a spider last night:lol1:
Legally, dogs are property. Hence the name "dog owner" or "master" which is often found in state statutes or municipal ordinances.

Having said that, the law has gone to great measures to protect these living creatures from cruelty from anyone including the animal's owner. So, while the dog is the property of the owner, there are laws in place that restrict what you can and cannot do with the dog despite the fact it is your property.

This discussion is actually a very interesting debate that occurs all the time having to do with government interaction in property owner's rights. This discussion can be applied to gun laws, restrictions on what you can do to your car or what about property association's ability to police what you do to your home.

This thread has inspired great discussion.

[IllinoiSkinFan]

The man is old enough to know his own mind. He is obviously ok with people fighting dogs. Let’s hope he is not going to dogs fights.
Right now, every eager reporter is combing over everything Portis does in his spare time. They will be going to all his old and new haunts and talking to all his old friends. He better keep his nose clean this season.

Portis should have just kept his mouth shut.

I can no longer respect him, so I cannot root for him. I will not be sad when he is no longer on the team. So much for these two being "core" players.

In the first interview, Samuels was giggling like some happy little hyena. He was also chiming in with his little quips. He’s no better then Portis.

I would really like to see the Skins publicly chastise these two. Of course they will not…

[Redskinmayhem]

Portis should have just kept his mouth shut.


Ultimately, if nothing else - this is gospel.

[Keino]

Newport News is a suburban sprawl with pockets of HUD housing. The East End, where he grew up, is pretty crappy, but it is by no means, the ghetto. Vick's problems arise from his sense of entitlement that he gained while being Warwick High's QB. He was given a pass on everything because he gave Warwick the best shot at beating the other schools in the area, although Vick was not as good as Iverson, or even Ronald Curry. His brother Marcus had an even bigger ego, because he was the heir apparent.

Having grown up in Newport News (I was born about 8 blocks from where Vick grew up), myself, I can tell you without a doubt that this town does NOT see dogfighting as anything but abhorrent behavior. You can't blame this on Vick's environment. Plenty of other people came out of the area without such misconceptions. If the mans acting the fool, it's because the man's a fool.


I agree with most of what you say here, but I have spent time in the Hampton Roads/Newport News areas.......it's mad ghetto bergie, from what I saw and the catz I met there were equally ghetto. I in no way was saying that everyone from these environments views dogfighting the same, in fact, I illustrate that point by contrasting my own view of it with some I grew up with. So while I agree that Vick problems are largely of his own doing and sense of entitlement, there are plenty of people who don’t view dogfighting as abhorrent behavior in that community as well..

My comments were more for the purpose of offering an unspoken perspective on Clinton's comments, because as I read the comments, I felt there were a bunch of character references made that were a bit harsh and without a certain perspective.


Keino, I do understand your point however I don't think it is very valid here. I know you aren't saying so but IMHO, calling it "ghetto" values is making an excuse for behavior, despite your disclaimer. I didn't grow up in the ghetto but I wouldn't say my family was middle class either. We group a very modest latino family. Despite that, my parents instilled in me a "respect" for all living things. My father took me fishing and hunting on a regular basis as well. My parents aren't the crazy dog lovers that I have become either, they really don't even "pet" their dogs much however they are repulsed by the idea of forcing animals to fight each other for human entertainment. There are some things that are basic human law. These things evolve over time. several hundred years ago, times were different as were these human laws. Dogfighting was much more prevalent as was stoning a woman for cheating on her husband or cutting off a thieves hands. As times change, so do these unspoken human laws. We're all human beings, rich or poor, black or white and we all must abide by these human laws. Maybe the poster from Tel Aviv has seen different but there is no "Real" poverty in the USA like in 3rd world countries *unless* it's by choice. In other countries, these human laws are different. cutting off thieves hands still flies in some parts of the world as does dog fighting I'm sure. While still wrong, I don't think they can be held "as accountable". I realize I'm making nearly the same argument as you, just pushing the boundaries out a little further. My point is the USA isn't a 3rd world country. Ghetto or middle class shouldn't make a difference. I do agree that human life has way more value than animal life (unlike what some PETA members might have you believe) but animals should be respected, especially domesticated animals.

I 100% disagree with the notion that people choose to be born into poverty, and while poverty in the USA doesn't measure up to third world poverty, it's still poverty especially when comparing to the middle and upper classes in this country.

You're right, it shouldn't make a difference, ghetto or middle class, but it does. There are patently different sets of values in each environment. It doesn't excuse anything, but it does help one understand where Portis' comment are coming from. He specifically said that where he was from you could find a dog fight if thats what you were into. Same with where I was from. What my parents instilled in me was in many instances in direct opposition to what the neighborhood streets instilled in me. My parents' lessons won out on most points in the end, but the influence of my environment remains with me forever.

I think it interesting that you refute my point by actually making it for me. Values are not about how much money one has, so while you had a modest family income growing up (so did I), you parents instilled what are commonly known as "Middle Class Values" in you. As did mine. Now consider that most (Again, lack of a better word here) Ghetto youth are typically raised by single working parent households in which the value system is vastly different.

[Sweepea436]

I agree with most of what you say here, but I have spent time in the Hampton Roads/Newport News areas.......it's mad ghetto bergie, from what I saw and the catz I met there were equally ghetto. I in no way was saying that everyone from these environments views dogfighting the same, in fact, I illustrate that point by contrasting my own view of it with some I grew up with. So while I agree that Vick problems are largely of his own doing and sense of entitlement, there are plenty of people who don’t view dogfighting as abhorrent behavior in that community as well..

My comments were more for the purpose of offering an unspoken perspective on Clinton's comments, because as I read the comments, I felt there were a bunch of character references made that were a bit harsh and without a certain perspective.




I 100% disagree with the notion that people choose to be born into poverty, and while poverty in the USA doesn't measure up to third world poverty, it's still poverty especially when comparing to the middle and upper classes in this country.

You're right, it shouldn't make a difference, ghetto or middle class, but it does. There are patently different sets of values in each environment. It doesn't excuse anything, but it does help one understand where Portis' comment are coming from. He specifically said that where he was from you could find a dog fight if thats what you were into. Same with where I was from. What my parents instilled in me was in many instances in direct opposition to what the neighborhood streets instilled in me. My parents' lessons won out on most points in the end, but the influence of my environment remains with me forever.

I think it interesting that you refute my point by actually making it for me. Values are not about how much money one has, so while you had a modest family income growing up (so did I), you parents instilled what are commonly known as "Middle Class Values" in you. As did mine. Now consider that most (Again, lack of a better word here) Ghetto youth are typically raised by single working parent households in which the value system is vastly different.

I kinda liked the mayonaisse sandwiches growing up!:)

[Keino]

I kinda liked the mayonaisse sandwiches growing up!:)


I used to put cheese on mine.....velveta.

[Sweepea436]

I used to put cheese on mine.....velveta.

Bigtimer! Nobody likes a showoff!!:lol1:

I can't lie, i'd go tomato on mine when we had them!

[bergiemoore]

I agree with most of what you say here, but I have spent time in the Hampton Roads/Newport News areas.......it's mad ghetto bergie, from what I saw and the catz I met there were equally ghetto. I in no way was saying that everyone from these environments views dogfighting the same, in fact, I illustrate that point by contrasting my own view of it with some I grew up with. So while I agree that Vick problems are largely of his own doing and sense of entitlement, there are plenty of people who don’t view dogfighting as abhorrent behavior in that community as well..


Sorry, man. I've lived here for 30+ years, and I chose to raise my own family here. You compare the Vicks with Bruce Smith, Ronald Curry, Aarron Brooks, David Macklin, and even Allen Iverson has come around in his old age. The Vicks are idiots all on their own. This city, and the Hampton Roads area in general, has a little of everything, if you want it. It's the most ethnically diverse area in the nation. There is more opportunity here than anywhere else for a person that wants to work. The fact that the Vick brothers can't seem to keep away from the police blotter is a reflection on THEM, not my hometown. They don't represent this area.

[RedskinsVision]

He made a mistake but he's either too young or too stubborn to acknowledge his mistake. This will blow over and hopefully in due time he'll look back on this and admit his wrong and learn from it.

[Keino]

Sorry, man. I've lived here for 30+ years, and I chose to raise my own family here. You compare the Vicks with Bruce Smith, Ronald Curry, Aarron Brooks, David Macklin, and even Allen Iverson has come around in his old age. The Vicks are idiots all on their own. This city, and the Hampton Roads area in general, has a little of everything, if you want it. It's the most ethnically diverse area in the nation. There is more opportunity here than anywhere else for a person that wants to work. The fact that the Vick brothers can't seem to keep away from the police blotter is a reflection on THEM, not my hometown. They don't represent this area.

I agree. The Vick brothers are idiots on their own accord, but again, my comments weren't made for the benfit of Michael Vick, but to offer some perspective on Portis' comments and I in no way was trying to portray your entire town as ghetto, only relating my experience in the Hampton Roads area.

I apologize if my comments came off as painting with broad strokes, but I was trying to illustrate a general point, not insult you or the town you live in.

[dukeuch]

I'd be in your corner as well. Where did Samuels say he supported Vick?

As far as Portis. I don't agree with him, but he deserves his own opinion without people calling him names.

Well, at what point is it ok to call someone names? I mean, this guy is saying "who's business is it to tell Vick what to do with his porperty", refering to dogs and an extremely brutal, sadistic, and illegal use of them. What if the guy was saying they should leave someone alone who was, say, hitting their kids, looking at child pornography, pimping his wife, smoking crack, etc?

I heard a tape of the interview, and Samuels was identified as the guy you could hear laughing in the background in agreement with Portis' statements. Don't know if it's true, but I think that's why he's included.

[dukeuch]

Here is most of the interview as much as i can remember.

"He basically said he does not support dog fightning nor does he have any pets except fish. He did say though he does not think anyone should pick on Vick until charges are filed against him and he is found guilty. He also confirmed his comments basically stating there are bigger fish to fry other then dog fighting.

They asked him about his promise to make the NFC championship game. He said he did not promise that but said unless they make that game the team would consider the season a loss. He feels they have so much talenet that there is no reason they cant make it. If they don't he feels the team will be broken up by management.

He also talked about his knee. He said during the off-season he was working hard on his upper body to get his should ready. Once OTA's started his started lifting hard with his legs and running which caused his knee a problem. He said his knee will be fine with a few weeks rest."

He basically came out and said he doesnt condone dog fighting or hunting(since both have to deal with killing animals), and that they are much bigger things going on right now that they should be worried about other than dogfighting.

I heard the interview, and I remember him saying that the dogs are VIck's property, and nobody should tell VIck what to do or criticize him for what he does with his property. He made it clear that it was his opinion that if Vick wanted to use his dogs for fighting, that should be OK.

[akhhorus]

Well, at what point is it ok to call someone names? I mean, this guy is saying "who's business is it to tell Vick what to do with his porperty", refering to dogs and an extremely brutal, sadistic, and illegal use of them. What if the guy was saying they should leave someone alone who was, say, hitting their kids, looking at child pornography, pimping his wife, smoking crack, etc

I think Vick should be crucified for what he did, and Portis was foolish for what he said, but comparing it to Child porn? Get a grip. We all know you hate Portis and love Betts, but jeebus. Portis didn't say he was involved, just that he knows of dog fights in Mississippi and that it was no big deal.

[chrisbcbu]

I heard the interview, and I remember him saying that the dogs are VIck's property, and nobody should tell VIck what to do or criticize him for what he does with his property. He made it clear that it was his opinion that if Vick wanted to use his dogs for fighting, that should be OK.

The interview i was quoting was the one of Portis from NFL network. Its not the same interview with Samuels.

[dukeuch]

I think Vick should be crucified for what he did, and Portis was foolish for what he said, but comparing it to Child porn? Get a grip. We all know you hate Portis and love Betts, but jeebus. Portis didn't say he was involved, just that he knows of dog fights in Mississippi and that it was no big deal.

AK:

My comparison are meant to address when it is fair to call a guy names. We call all kinds of sports figures names for opinions or actions far less objectionable than what Portis did here.

And I have nothing against Vick at this point. I have seen nothing but speculation that Vick knew there was dog fighting going on at his property. I would not be surprised if it comes out that he was involved, but I'll wait until that is proven.

I did. however, hear with my own ears Portis say that basically it should be Vick's right to have his dogs in fights if that's what he wants to do. That's my problem with Portis, not how he stacks up against Betts (which, for the final time, I have NEVER said Betts was a better runner, just a better value, and had better stats this year.)

[akhhorus]

AK:

My comparison are meant to address when it is fair to call a guy names. We call all kinds of sports figures names for opinions or actions far less objectionable than what Portis did here.

Except that Portis didn't do anything here. Just offered his opinion. I don't think its right to call him anything other than stupid.

And I have nothing against Vick at this point. I have seen nothing but speculation that Vick knew there was dog fighting going on at his property. I would not be surprised if it comes out that he was involved, but I'll wait until that is proven.

Its more than speculation. The police seized envelopes and "documents" addressed to an M Vick in and around the dog fighting areas and witnesses(and video tapes supposedly) place Vick at the dog fights and buying vet supplies for dogs in that town.

I did. however, hear with my own ears Portis say that basically it should be Vick's right to have his dogs in fights if that's what he wants to do.

And he's a fool for saying it, but unless there's evidence he was involved, he didn't do anything except stupidity.

That's my problem with Portis, not how he stacks up against Betts (which, for the final time, I have NEVER said Betts was a better runner, just a better value, and had better stats this year.)

More semantic nonsense from you. We all know what you meant. You rarely miss a chance to dump on Portis. I'm actually surprised you've shown restraint and not called for the Skins to trade Portis in this thread yet.

[dukeuch]

Except that Portis didn't do anything here. Just offered his opinion. I don't think its right to call him anything other than stupid.



Its more than speculation. The police seized envelopes and "documents" addressed to an M Vick in and around the dog fighting areas and witnesses(and video tapes supposedly) place Vick at the dog fights and buying vet supplies for dogs in that town.



And he's a fool for saying it, but unless there's evidence he was involved, he didn't do anything except stupidity.



More semantic nonsense from you. We all know what you meant. You rarely miss a chance to dump on Portis. I'm actually surprised you've shown restraint and not called for the Skins to trade Portis in this thread yet.

meh.

[akhhorus]

meh.

Actually one of your best responses in a long time lol.

[dukeuch]

Actually one of your best responses in a long time lol.

meh.

[wewantdallas]

Except that Portis didn't do anything here. Just offered his opinion. I don't think its right to call him anything other than stupid.

How about "moron"? "Jackass"? Or, as Riggins called him yesterday, "Buffoon"?

You're right, in the end, Portis did just offer his opinion. He's nowhere near in the same league as Vick in all of this (if indeed Vick is guilty). But this isn't the same as someone being abused because they offer an opinion on religion or politics or the state of the union. He offered his opinion on a practice that most rational-thinking, civilized people find reprehensible and barbaric. And that opinion seemed pretty clear, because he REPEATED it even last night on NFL Network: "If it's your dog, it's your property, do what you want. Should be nobody's business." That's basically what he said the first go-round. When asked last night if he still felt the same way, he said, "Yeah, I do." I find that incredibly offensive and sad, especially since his comments about his hometown lead you to believe he's been around his share of dogfights in the past, i.e. he knows what goes on at one.

Offering an opinion that suggests that dogfighting — a felony and one of the cruelest types of animal abuse that's out there — is okay as long as you're doing it "behind closed doors" is going to make a lot of people question your overall character. And it SHOULD have that effect. To me, anyone who thinks this is okay (http://www.workingpitbull.com/dogfighting.htm) or "nobody's business" is, at the very least, an ignorant buffoon and deserves to be called that publicly.

Samuels handled it great with his comments yesterday. Portis should have followed suit or just kept quiet.

While I agree that it's being blown out of proportion with each passing day, I think much of the grief that's come Clinton's way over this is deserved. He has two choices now about how to handle it. Go into defensive stubborn mode, which is what I saw last night, or work on exercising his brain a little and wonder WHY people have gotten so upset over this and try to understand a different perspective than his own for once.

[bergiemoore]

I agree. The Vick brothers are idiots on their own accord, but again, my comments weren't made for the benfit of Michael Vick, but to offer some perspective on Portis' comments and I in no way was trying to portray your entire town as ghetto, only relating my experience in the Hampton Roads area.

I apologize if my comments came off as painting with broad strokes, but I was trying to illustrate a general point, not insult you or the town you live in.

:beer:

Sorry, Keino. Didn't mean to come off that harsh.

Newport News has a lot going for it, and the Hampton Roads area just recently was recognized by Redskins.com as being a hotbed of football talent. But since this whole Vick thing has come about, prognosticators have been talking about Vick coming from the ghetto. I hate seeing the place where I live categorized in that light, and I'm especially ticked that the Vick brothers continue to bring this kind of attention to this area. Mike was supposed to be the level headed one. :banghead:


The property in question is located across the river from Newport News, in Surry County. It's more of a rural area that has recently been used as a suburb for the Hampton Roads area's more affluent. So you have this juxtaposition of farms and McMansions, such as Vick's home. It's an ideal place for dogfighters to raise their dogs. They are away from the scrutiny of neighbors, but close enough to urban areas to attract the crowds and make money. There was another case 6 years ago in the same area where police found 33 dogs. 10 died while impounded, another 18 were euthanized, 4 were stolen from the impound, and the last one was allowed to return to the family as a pet. Most of the 66 dogs found at Vick's place will be euthanized, since fighting dogs are rarely able to readjust to domestic life.

[Redskinmayhem]

Mike was supposed to be the level headed one. :banghead:

that was before the "Ron Mexico" and "Water-bottle-gate" incidents. The two brothers have proven they are just a couple of "bufoons".

[CNYSkinFan]

:beer:

Sorry, Keino. Didn't mean to come off that harsh.

Newport News has a lot going for it, and the Hampton Roads area just recently was recognized by Redskins.com as being a hotbed of football talent. But since this whole Vick thing has come about, prognosticators have been talking about Vick coming from the ghetto. I hate seeing the place where I live categorized in that light, and I'm especially ticked that the Vick brothers continue to bring this kind of attention to this area. Mike was supposed to be the level headed one. :banghead:


The property in question is located across the river from Newport News, in Surry County. It's more of a rural area that has recently been used as a suburb for the Hampton Roads area's more affluent. So you have this juxtaposition of farms and McMansions, such as Vick's home. It's an ideal place for dogfighters to raise their dogs. They are away from the scrutiny of neighbors, but close enough to urban areas to attract the crowds and make money. There was another case 6 years ago in the same area where police found 33 dogs. 10 died while impounded, another 18 were euthanized, 4 were stolen from the impound, and the last one was allowed to return to the family as a pet. Most of the 66 dogs found at Vick's place will be euthanized, since fighting dogs are rarely able to readjust to domestic life.

How in sweet holy hell was THAT allowed?!?!?!

[Keino]

How in sweet holy hell was THAT allowed?!?!?!


I think I am more surprised by the fact that 4 were stolen from the impound.

[bergiemoore]

I think I am more surprised by the fact that 4 were stolen from the impound.

On top of all that, the case was thrown out due to the raid being considered an illegal search. Here's a link (http://www.dailypress.com/news/local/dp-36887sy0may20,0,6490172.story?coll=dp-news-local-final).

[Keino]

On top of all that, the case was thrown out due to the raid being considered an illegal search. Here's a link (http://www.dailypress.com/news/local/dp-36887sy0may20,0,6490172.story?coll=dp-news-local-final).

Well you are supposed to get a Search Warrant. They usually aren't that difficult to obtain.


Some of my friends and I are discussing the issue via email, and I thought I would share one of my friend's email on the subject. Be forwarned, many of you are going to take exception to his P.O.V., but it kinda illustrates what I was saying about values where I grew up:

This country treats human beings far worse than it treats its animals. And the treatment or mistreatment of dogs is in the news?? I’d rather talk about the youngin who died around here a month ago because he didn’t have DENTAL coverage. Nobody would help the little youngin out. And he died-- B/c of DENTAL Coverage?? Or, a lack thereof? You don’t have healthcare so go home and die????

That’s cruel.

And animal cruelty is in the news??

This whole “animal cruelty” issue is a waste of time and breath in my opinion. I’d prefer to discuss human issues………

[RedskinsDave]

Well you are supposed to get a Search Warrant. They usually aren't that difficult to obtain.


Some of my friends and I are discussing the issue via email, and I thought I would share one of my friend's email on the subject. Be forwarned, many of you are going to take exception to his P.O.V., but it kinda illustrates what I was saying about values where I grew up:

This country treats human beings far worse than it treats its animals. And the treatment or mistreatment of dogs is in the news?? I’d rather talk about the youngin who died around here a month ago because he didn’t have DENTAL coverage. Nobody would help the little youngin out. And he died-- B/c of DENTAL Coverage?? Or, a lack thereof? You don’t have healthcare so go home and die????

That’s cruel.

And animal cruelty is in the news??

This whole “animal cruelty” issue is a waste of time and breath in my opinion. I’d prefer to discuss human issues………



That's called a straw man argument. There was plenty of local coverage on the kid who died.

[bergiemoore]

Well you are supposed to get a Search Warrant. They usually aren't that difficult to obtain.


Some of my friends and I are discussing the issue via email, and I thought I would share one of my friend's email on the subject. Be forwarned, many of you are going to take exception to his P.O.V., but it kinda illustrates what I was saying about values where I grew up:

This country treats human beings far worse than it treats its animals. And the treatment or mistreatment of dogs is in the news?? I’d rather talk about the youngin who died around here a month ago because he didn’t have DENTAL coverage. Nobody would help the little youngin out. And he died-- B/c of DENTAL Coverage?? Or, a lack thereof? You don’t have healthcare so go home and die????

That’s cruel.

And animal cruelty is in the news??

This whole “animal cruelty” issue is a waste of time and breath in my opinion. I’d prefer to discuss human issues………



It's a very good point, but this case is getting the press because of Vick's involvement, not because we place more value on dogs than of that poor kid w/o dental insurance.

The truth is, there are more than 4 million people,many of them children, in this country without health insurance, or reliable access to health care. It's a point that gets brought up every 2 years, around election time, and then summarily forgotten about by December, except by those without it.

Still, it's not a waste of time to address how people treat those for which they are responsible, in this case, dogs. You can draw many parallels to from how our society as a whole treats our pets to how it treats those that are unable to take care of themselves.

[Keino]

I didn't hear about it, because well Im not local anymore. But I think it's an interesting point. Some of the same people who shrugged their shoulders over the woman dying in the ER thread in Off-Topic are outraged at Portis' opinion. (At least I think it's some of the same people).

[Keino]

It's a very good point, but this case is getting the press because of Vick's involvement, not because we place more value on dogs than of that poor kid w/o dental insurance.

The truth is, there are more than 4 million people,many of them children, in this country without health insurance, or reliable access to health care. It's a point that gets brought up every 2 years, around election time, and then summarily forgotten about by December, except by those without it.

Still, it's not a waste of time to address how people treat those for which they are responsible, in this case, dogs. You can draw many parallels to from how our society as a whole treats our pets to how it treats those that are unable to take care of themselves.

I 100% agree with this post.

[redskin_rich]

I didn't hear about it, because well Im not local anymore. But I think it's an interesting point. Some of the same people who shrugged their shoulders over the woman dying in the ER thread in Off-Topic are outraged at Portis' opinion. (At least I think it's some of the same people).
I don't know, Keino. You have made a good point about diferent cultures and what bothers one may not another. That is not the issue though, at least for me. The issue is having enough sense to know when to not comment on something that could be offensive to some. I'm sure I have some opinions that would enrage a lot of people and I'm sure you do and everyone else does too but most of us are smart enough to keep it to ourselves. Heck, this is the very reason I usually avoid religious and political conversations around friends and family members.

As I stated earlier, I don't care what Portis believes or feels is right or wrong, I just wish he had enough sense to know when to stifle a comment. And a 25 year old man that is used to talking to the media should have enough sense to do that. He has now thrown himself into an issue that he had nothing to do with and brought embarrassment to the entire organization.

[wewantdallas]

It's a very good point, but this case is getting the press because of Vick's involvement, not because we place more value on dogs than of that poor kid w/o dental insurance.


I was just about to post something similar, but glad I didn't, because you did a better job.

I was arguing this over on ES yesterday when this site was down. (Man, that was a fun experience. It's like a nation of brainless zombies over there.)

It's like Clinton's other argument that "a lot of worse things are going on in the world, why spend time on this?" I hate arguments like that. You can ALWAYS find something worse going on in the world. By that logic, if you are a victim of petty crime and go to a cop, he should say, "Sorry your wallet was stolen, but we're not going to help you with that. We have worse criminals to deal with."

Should they put the same amount of manpower into your stolen wallet as they do into catching a bankrobber? Of course not, but they should still do what they can. Wrong is wrong.

As you said, this is not about valuing animals over people, it's about valuing "celebrities" over "regular" people. In fact, if Vick was involved in child abuse or any crime relating to a person, there would have been much more of a frenzy. And if Clinton had said, "It's his kid, his property, if that's what he wants to do, do it," there would have been even more of a frenzy, too.

The media and our culture in general loves to see celebs squirm (sometimes deservedly so), and that's what's fueling this at this point.

[Redskinmayhem]

Still, it's not a waste of time to address how people treat those for which they are responsible, in this case, dogs. You can draw many parallels to from how our society as a whole treats our pets to how it treats those that are unable to take care of themselves.

I'll agree. the emailer has a good point. Humans should take precedence above animal life but at the same time, Blatant animal cruelty cannot just go by the wayside because of other injustices.

[Keino]

I don't know, Keino. You have made a good point about diferent cultures and what bothers one may not another. That is not the issue though, at least for me. The issue is having enough sense to know when to not comment on something that could be offensive to some. I'm sure I have some opinions that would enrage a lot of people and I'm sure you do and everyone else does too but most of us are smart enough to keep it to ourselves. Heck, this is the very reason I usually avoid religious and political conversations around friends and family members.

As I stated earlier, I don't care what Portis believes or feels is right or wrong, I just wish he had enough sense to know when to stifle a comment. And a 25 year old man that is used to talking to the media should have enough sense to do that. He has now thrown himself into an issue that he had nothing to do with and brought embarrassment to the entire organization.

I think this is the most valid criticism of Portis' comments, but you aren't assasinating his character here the way some have, just because of one unpopular opinion.

I agree, at the end of the day, STFU and play ball. You know that I was never a fan of the silly outfits and the attention drawn from that (Even though I was amused by a few).

[redskin_rich]

I think this is the most valid criticism of Portis' comments, but you aren't assasinating his character here the way some have, just because of one unpopular opinion.

I agree, at the end of the day, STFU and play ball. You know that I was never a fan of the silly outfits and the attention drawn from that (Even though I was amused by a few).
Well, I did call him a clown but I've referred to him as that before, as far back as '05. I didn't care for the goofy costumes either but if we were winning and it was keeping everybody loose, I didn't complain.
Now, with this latest fiasco, it's like we have our own version of John Rocker and that sucks.

[Sweepea436]

Well, I did call him a clown but I've referred to him as that before, as far back as '05. I didn't care for the goofy costumes either but if we were winning and it was keeping everybody loose, I didn't complain.
Now, with this latest fiasco, it's like we have our own version of John Rocker and that sucks.

:lol1: I saw him on Pro's Vs. Joe's..... looks like he's 'roidin'.....

[Skins7ny]

Well, I did call him a clown but I've referred to him as that before, as far back as '05. I didn't care for the goofy costumes either but if we were winning and it was keeping everybody loose, I didn't complain.
Now, with this latest fiasco, it's like we have our own version of John Rocker and that sucks.

Not to start a whole new line of argument, but as much as I am saddened by Clinton's comments, I don't think that this puts him in John Rocker's class. Rocker was an avowed racist and homophobe and general headcase. I am certainly not CP's biggest booster on this site, and I have never been a fan of his antics, but up until now, that is all that they have been antics and some in-house stuff (like criticizing Gibbs' game plans the first year after Gibbs rescued him from his contract in Denver). Until now, he had never done anything that had negative implications outside of football. As bad as his comments were, I don't think they are at the level of Rocker's repeated ramblings the new york subways and other sundry topics.

[wewantdallas]

I think the John Riggins show has had the best coverage/commentary on this thing of anything I've heard, at least from my own perspective. There was some VERY interesting info on there today, and I'm including a link to an .mp3 of about 5 or 6 minutes of the show.

The first part features the reporter who did the interview with Portis and Samuels, but first she talks about all the evidence they have against Vick now, and it seems awfully damning. Then she goes into the Portis interview from her firsthand perspective, and finally we get Riggins commenting on the situation, and his views sum up my own pretty succinctly.

Click Here for the MP3. (http://mysite.verizon.net/diss/riggoshow.mp3)

[redskin_rich]

Not to start a whole new line of argument, but as much as I am saddened by Clinton's comments, I don't think that this puts him in John Rocker's class. Rocker was an avowed racist and homophobe and general headcase. I am certainly not CP's biggest booster on this site, and I have never been a fan of his antics, but up until now, that is all that they have been antics and some in-house stuff (like criticizing Gibbs' game plans the first year after Gibbs rescued him from his contract in Denver). Until now, he had never done anything that had negative implications outside of football. As bad as his comments were, I don't think they are at the level of Rocker's repeated ramblings the new york subways and other sundry topics.
You'll get no argument from me, I'm not making a comparison. A stupid remark that offends a lot of people is just that. I actually used John Rocker's name knowing somebody would post something like you just did. It goes back to the point that Keino made about differences in beliefs or cultures. I'm sure there are people that agreed with Rocker's remarks and didn't see any big deal with them.
I don't know exactly where the line of morality begins or ends but I do know enough not to express my own beliefs, in regards to sensitive subject matter, to the mass public, an unfamiliar group or even some friends and family members that I know differ from my views.

[culpeper]

is it just me or does it look like portis has it in his head of what he wants to say, and then suddenly the ritalin wears off and the messages gets jumbled on the way to his mouth?

STFU! cudos for stepping up for a fellow player...bad topic. its along the same line as arguing about abortion, dont even bring it up.

with that said i hope everyone isnt jumping to conclusions about CP, ie.burning jerseys etc. he has an inability to communicate what he is really trying to say, hes not advocating for the "sport" (loosly used). someone really needs to sit him down....again.

fact is this crap really does go on whether we like it or not, lets not be so sensitive as a society when someone is caught. prosecute to the full extent of the law though! it sickens me to see some of those pics on the internet.

but some people are reacting to this worse than when we get breaking news that another bomb has gone off in the middle east. in the grand scheme of things, CP really isnt wrong, hes just not saying it correctly. and its a bad topic for a FOOTBALL player to talk about period.

[PA Skins Girl]

If you asked me, the whole country is too damn sensitive.

[culpeper]

If you asked me, the whole country is too damn sensitive.

AMEN SISTER!!!

[redskin_rich]

If you asked me, the whole country is too damn sensitive.
I agree but this is the price you pay for 24 hour news coverage, internet and so on. We live in the information age, where even the slightest of on camera mistakes can snowball into an avalanche of bad press and public opinion.

That doesn't excuse Portis for being stupid with his remarks.

[BurgundyNGold]

If you asked me, the whole country is too damn sensitive.
Cat person?

[culpeper]

I agree but this is the price you pay for 24 hour news coverage, internet and so on. We live in the information age, where even the slightest of on camera mistakes can snowball into an avalanche of bad press and public opinion.

That doesn't excuse Portis for being stupid with his remarks.

no, but it doesnt neccessarily give us the right to crucify him either. weve all said horrible things at one time or another without thinking about it first. his mistake was just on TV...

and its just ignorant remarks. its not like he meant to say 'fighting dogs is ok', even though thats how it came out. *see my post above*

[culpeper]

Cat person?

:lol1: some of you guys are halarious!

[redskin_rich]

no, but it doesnt neccessarily give us the right to crucify him either. weve all said horrible things at one time or another without thinking about it first. his mistake was just on TV...

and its just ignorant remarks. its not like he meant to say 'fighting dogs is ok', even though thats how it came out. *see my post above*
I don't see where he has been crucified, at least here on this site. Most people are just very dissapointed and don't hold him to the same regard as they once did. As I have stated from the beginning, my opinion of him hasn't changed, as I have always thought he was careless when speaking to the media. It's just a shame that he spoke out on something that had nothing to do with him and could have been easily avoided.
Also, he had a chance to recant his remarks publically but didn't.

[akhhorus]

no, but it doesnt neccessarily give us the right to crucify him either. weve all said horrible things at one time or another without thinking about it first. his mistake was just on TV...

and its just ignorant remarks. its not like he meant to say 'fighting dogs is ok', even though thats how it came out. *see my post above*

He said its no one's business what Vick was doing on his property with dogs(which is stupid) and hinted that dog fighting's no big deal. Anyway you slice it, Portis is a moron(and "stepping up for a fellow player" is ridiculous, dog fighting is illegal and is reprehensible) for saying what he did. I think your "he was misunderstood because he didn't clearly say what he meant to say" is a stretch. He knew exactly what he was saying and was very clear in his comments, and he's a fool.

That being said: This is a tempest in a teapot. Unless Portis is fighting dogs, or involved with dog fighting, who cares if he's a moron and says something like this?

[PA Skins Girl]

Expressing one's opinion is still covered by the first amendment, is it not?

[culpeper]

[QUOTE]I don't see where he has been crucified,
'loosly used' sorry for the weighted word.

at least here on this site. Most people are just very dissapointed and don't hold him to the same regard as they once did. As I have stated from the beginning, my opinion of him hasn't changed, as I have always thought he was careless when speaking to the media. It's just a shame that he spoke out on something that had nothing to do with him and could have been easily avoided.
i hope you didnt think i was accusing you of anything. my opinion is the same as yours, and these recent comments havent changed that. hes always been careless, but i dont think less of him. IMO he really didnt mean to say what everyone (national media) is blowing it up to be. and i hope noone is going to judge his character or take it to any higher level than what it is....a stupid comment.

Also, he had a chance to recant his remarks publically but didn't
yeah i watched that. like i said before IMO he has it in his head, but he cant compute. that was disappointing.

[akhhorus]

Expressing one's opinion is still covered by the first amendment, is it not?

No one is saying otherwise. But we have the right to criticize him for his comments if we want to also. As I said: this isn't a big deal, but he's an idiot.

[culpeper]

[QUOTE]He said its no one's business what Vick was doing on his property with dogs(which is stupid) and hinted that dog fighting's no big deal.
yeah, that was stupid. diarrhea of the mouth.

Anyway you slice it, Portis is a moron(and "stepping up for a fellow player" is ridiculous, dog fighting is illegal and is reprehensible) for saying what he did. I think your "he was misunderstood because he didn't clearly say what he meant to say" is a stretch. He knew exactly what he was saying and was very clear in his comments, and he's a fool

thats just how it seemed to me. in the grand scheme of things, IMO society should stop being so sensitive. its horrible but it happens. not to say fighting dogs is right, but portis did say and mean, there are a lot worse things happening in the world.

i think he just meant to say get off vicks back because you just going after him for WHO he is.

That being said: This is a tempest in a teapot. Unless Portis is fighting dogs, or involved with dog fighting, who cares if he's a moron and says something like this?

from your lips to the medias ear! :beer:

[redskin_rich]

Expressing one's opinion is still covered by the first amendment, is it not?
Of course and no one is saying that Portis should be put behind bars for his comments.
Remember what Gibbs said to the team, when he came back, about not embarrassing themselves or the organization? That is what we are talking about here.
I think it is way overboard for anyone to think we should get rid of Portis for this. Portis is a great player and we have a big investment in him. I just hope he has learned a lesson and will keep his trap shut from here on out.

[BurgundyNGold]

i think he just meant to say get off vicks back because you just going after him for WHO he is.
How do you get that out of the paraphrased "it's his house, his yard and his dogs. He should be able to do whatever he wants". That seems to be more his opinion on property rights, not that folks need to leave Vick alone because he's just getting grief because of who he is.

[skinsfan36]

you can say what you want but watch what you say about certain things imo. people are sensitive and some people take things differently. goddell saying hes dissapointed kind of made me mad for saying something like that focus on your guys commiting crimes not someone who said the wrong thing.Portis just said something stupid and they should just end this whole ordeal. all portis has is fish so hes not a dog fighter imo but he needs to wake up and watch what he says because people will criticize anything you say like that.

[BurgundyNGold]

Of course and no one is saying that Portis should be put behind bars for his comments.
Remember what Gibbs said to the team, when he came back, about not embarrassing themselves or the organization? That is what we are talking about here.
I think it is way overboard for anyone to think we should get rid of Portis for this. Portis is a great player and we have a big investment in him. I just hope he has learned a lesson and will keep his trap shut from here on out.
I'll say that I need to start seeing more out of Portis on the field, regardless what he says. While a complete player, we didn't trade for his awesome pass blocking skills. We traded a shutdown corner AND a 2nd round pick (possibly another starter, basically) for a 5.0+ YPC average and a history of 50+ yard runs. Suffice it to say that, as it stands now, the trade has not been even and we have not gotten the top 5 RB that we thought we would see in B&G. The mouth just compounds that fact, IMO.

[redskin_rich]

I'll say that I need to start seeing more out of Portis on the field, regardless what he says. While a complete player, we didn't trade for his awesome pass blocking skills. We traded a shutdown corner AND a 2nd round pick (possibly another starter, basically) for a 5.0+ YPC average and a history of 50+ yard runs. Suffice it to say that, as it stands now, the trade has not been even and we have not gotten the top 5 RB that we thought we would see in B&G. The mouth just compounds that fact, IMO.
I still give him the benefit of doubt on that issue. His first year here, our offense was a mess (for many resons), yet he still grinded out 1300 yards in 15 games. He was very good in '05 and et a franchise record. Last year he started the season with an injury, our offense started out a mess again and things just snowballed downhill for Portis.
No excuses this year, Portis has to be what he is getting paid to be.

[culpeper]

How do you get that out of the paraphrased "it's his house, his yard and his dogs. He should be able to do whatever he wants". That seems to be more his opinion on property rights, not that folks need to leave Vick alone because he's just getting grief because of who he is.

im not defending that, he was trying to validate his previous statement and that crap came out. yeah that was bad.

i meant when he said take a positive role model (hahahah), and put him behind bars. then chris samuels followed that with something like, 'dont get on the guy until hes been convicted'. granted, CP said some stupid ignorant stuff, im just hoping everyone sees hes not the foremost authority on dog fighting or vick, and everyone just chalks it up to his stupidity (im not talking about you guys, the national media is what im directing that at).

[BurgundyNGold]

I still give him the benefit of doubt on that issue. His first year here, our offense was a mess (for many resons), yet he still grinded out 1300 yards in 15 games. He was very good in '05 and et a franchise record. Last year he started the season with an injury, our offense started out a mess again and things just snowballed downhill for Portis.
No excuses this year, Portis has to be what he is getting paid to be.
That's pretty much where I am. This is his do or die year.

[culpeper]

That's pretty much where I am. This is his do or die year.
ill third that...i love to watch him block and 'do the little things'....but its time for him to do the big things.

[Emmanouel8]

That being said: This is a tempest in a teapot. Unless Portis is fighting dogs, or involved with dog fighting, who cares if he's a moron and says something like this?


Actually this could be a distraction for both him and the team all summer. He lost most if not all his marketability, and will probably have zippy endorsements as well. For what? To stick up for another clown and an illegal activity. What a c-o-m-p-l-e-t-e moron.

It's just about impossible for damage control at this point. His public relations after the fact made things worse. He exposed himself plain and simple. All he had to do was get over his ego.

He's not a rookie, he should know the game by now. No one to blame but himself.

[MikeBass]

I'll say that I need to start seeing more out of Portis on the field, regardless what he says. While a complete player, we didn't trade for his awesome pass blocking skills. We traded a shutdown corner AND a 2nd round pick (possibly another starter, basically) for a 5.0+ YPC average and a history of 50+ yard runs. Suffice it to say that, as it stands now, the trade has not been even and we have not gotten the top 5 RB that we thought we would see in B&G. The mouth just compounds that fact, IMO.

Just wondering...do you think that you would've gotten away with that statement if you were not an 18G + poster?...but I agree

everyone loves Portis for what he did in Denver and has the potential to do here but he says and does some crazy stuff when a camera and a mic is in his face but although he has broke the season season rushing record here, his TD production has been lacking.

[BurgundyNGold]

Just wondering...do you think that you would've gotten away with that statement if you were not an 18G + poster?...but I agree

everyone loves Portis for what he did in Denver and has the potential to do here but he says and does some crazy stuff when a camera and a mike is in his face but although he has broke the season season rushing record here, his TD production has been lacking.
I don't think how many posts someone has matters in the least. Someone can have 100 or 10,000 posts and be a tool just the same. I'm just trying to be be realistic. A lot of folks might not agree with my assessment, but that's why we have this place. I think the results over the past 3 seasons back up the position. We didn't get screwed in the deal, we just didn't get equal value.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

no, but it doesnt neccessarily give us the right to crucify him either. weve all said horrible things at one time or another without thinking about it first. his mistake was just on TV...

and its just ignorant remarks. its not like he meant to say 'fighting dogs is ok', even though thats how it came out. *see my post above*
I've never said that I condoned a felony, much less a horrible one like dogfighting.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Expressing one's opinion is still covered by the first amendment, is it not?
So Portis can say that slaughtering dogs is all right but I can't say that he is a sorry excuse for a human being if that is what he really thinks (and everything points to it being that way)?

[smoak]

So noted. I've obviously touched a nerve so my work here is almost done.

Ever ate Fox? Raccoon? Those are for pure sport. I'm just saying we're splitting the hair pretty fine on this "animal cruelty" thing while we lambaste CP. We are comfortably ensconced on our moral high horse and are very willing to point the finger at him for supporting a friend. I don't think CP is endorsing dog fighting and neither am I. We're willing to throw CP under the bus just because he's not indignant or uncomfortable to the world of dogfighting. The argument for the drug lords is the same specious argument made for "assault/scary weapons" ban. I don't buy either one. But that's my opinion. I'm sure some will be some calling for my head because I have an opinion that doesn't mirror theirs.

I just think we're being a little hypocritical in being so hard on Portis. It's his opinion. That's all. I'm comfortable in my hypocrisy. Maybe some of you are less so. Flame on. Now pass me some of that veal.

I get your points and agree for the most part.... Hunting for sport has always been wrong IMO. It would probably be comical to most of you to see my reaction when I happen across those sport sharking competitions on TV. You'd think the Skins just lost to dallass with the way I spew hatred at the TV....

But I am still not in the camp that wants to see Vick in prison and Portis gagged. Just b/c there are other wrongs in the world doesn't mean that we shouldn/t take a stand on this.

[smoak]

Expressing one's opinion is still covered by the first amendment, is it not?

Of courese, but Portis should choose to be more careful given that he represents the Redskins. Nobody id debating his right to say such things.... We just wish he would shut up b/c his POV is so skewed it is sad.

[flave1969]

I'll say that I need to start seeing more out of Portis on the field, regardless what he says. While a complete player, we didn't trade for his awesome pass blocking skills. We traded a shutdown corner AND a 2nd round pick (possibly another starter, basically) for a 5.0+ YPC average and a history of 50+ yard runs. Suffice it to say that, as it stands now, the trade has not been even and we have not gotten the top 5 RB that we thought we would see in B&G. The mouth just compounds that fact, IMO.

For the umpteenth time did Champ Bailey not get offered a lucrative contract by this team? Did he want to stay? The answers Yes and No. If Bailey was low balled at the time fine, but he wasn't, he was offered at the time one of the best corner contracts, yet he left. If he stays this isn't an issue. As for Tatum Bell and that second rounder, well he was just traded so his value to Denver is in question.

None of this of course has anything too do with the odius remarks that came out of Portis's mouth and frankly I think he meant what he said and has been rightly censured, if not punished.

[dukeuch]

Well you are supposed to get a Search Warrant. They usually aren't that difficult to obtain.


Some of my friends and I are discussing the issue via email, and I thought I would share one of my friend's email on the subject. Be forwarned, many of you are going to take exception to his P.O.V., but it kinda illustrates what I was saying about values where I grew up:

This country treats human beings far worse than it treats its animals. And the treatment or mistreatment of dogs is in the news?? I’d rather talk about the youngin who died around here a month ago because he didn’t have DENTAL coverage. Nobody would help the little youngin out. And he died-- B/c of DENTAL Coverage?? Or, a lack thereof? You don’t have healthcare so go home and die????

That’s cruel.

And animal cruelty is in the news??

This whole “animal cruelty” issue is a waste of time and breath in my opinion. I’d prefer to discuss human issues………



Why not discuss both human and animal issues? It's not like it can't be done.

[dukeuch]

I think this is the most valid criticism of Portis' comments, but you aren't assasinating his character here the way some have, just because of one unpopular opinion.

I agree, at the end of the day, STFU and play ball. You know that I was never a fan of the silly outfits and the attention drawn from that (Even though I was amused by a few).

I ususally agree with you Keino, but I don have questions about a persons character if they see no problem with another person using dogs in a creul, bloody "sport" for entertainment. A sport where the intention is for one dog to tear the other apart.

[wewantdallas]

I'll say this about Portis and the deal for Champ. I credit Portis in LARGE measure for helping us get to the playoffs in 2005. The run he had against the Eagles in the second game that year (after Marshall's pick), where he bounced off tacklers and stretched into the end zone to give us the lead, was imo the best run of the year and one of the best/most important runs in recent Redskins history. I don't think you can ask more from a back than what he delivered in '05. If he can get back to that form this season, I'd say the scales are back to being nearly even on that trade.

But since that's not what this thread is REALLY about, i just have to say that it has been real disappointing for me to see this side of Portis the last few weeks, and it's been disappointing to see all the bad vibes he's brought to the team over his dumb remarks. I honestly thought/hoped he was smarter than this, but...nope. But like Riggins said on his show yesterday (and here's the mp3 link in case anyone missed it earlier - very interesting) (http://mysite.verizon.net/diss/riggoshow.mp3), I'm willing to cut the guy some slack (which I admittedly and probably hypocritically would not do if he played for any other team) depending on how he handles things from here on out - which will more than likely be to just keep his mouth shut.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Why not discuss both human and animal issues? It's not like it can't be done.
Exactly. And besides, winning Super Bowls is alot less important then human issues as well, but I don't see NFL players complaining when that makes the front page of the news.

[culpeper]

I've never said that I condoned a felony, much less a horrible one like dogfighting.

youve never said you were going to 'F someone up', or 'kill' someone, out of anger? maybe you are the exception? what if that was caught on tv? but its just words, we all have our stupid moments.

i agree that there should be some backlash, and everyone has the right to criticize accordingly. but consider the fact that some people are brought up in different backgrounds with different values. it doesnt make it right, or PC. but try and understand where someone stands when they make a comment and take it for what its worth. like AKH said, he doesnt do it, so who the hell cares what he has to say on the topic!? :whoknows: no matter how stupid it was.