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View Full Version : Was Pat Tillman murdered?


Spence
07-27-2007, 08:20 AM
Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman's forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former NFL player's death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.

"The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described," a doctor who examined Tillman's body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.

The doctors _ whose names were blacked out _ said that the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M-16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.

Ultimately, the Pentagon did conduct a criminal investigation, and asked Tillman's comrades whether he was disliked by his men and whether they had any reason to believe he was deliberately killed. The Pentagon eventually ruled that Tillman's death at the hands of his comrades was a friendly-fire accident.

The medical examiners' suspicions were outlined in 2,300 pages of testimony released to the AP this week by the Defense Department in response to a Freedom of Information Act request.

Among other information contained in the documents:

_ In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop "sniveling."

_ Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or non-criminal, punishments.

_ The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman's death from his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a bad memory and couldn't recall details of his actions.

_ No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene _ no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck.

The Pentagon and the Bush administration have been criticized in recent months for lying about the circumstances of Tillman's death. The military initially told the public and the Tillman family that he had been killed by enemy fire. Only weeks later did the Pentagon acknowledge he was gunned down by fellow Rangers.

With questions lingering about how high in the Bush administration the deception reached, Congress is preparing for yet another hearing next week.

The Pentagon is separately preparing a new round of punishments, including a stinging demotion of retired Lt. Gen. Philip R. Kensinger Jr., 60, according to military officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because the punishments under consideration have not been made public.

In more than four hours of questioning by the Pentagon inspector general's office in December 2006, Kensinger repeatedly contradicted other officers' testimony, and sometimes his own. He said on some 70 occasions that he did not recall something.

At one point, he said: "You've got me really scared about my brain right now. I'm really having a problem."

Tillman's mother, Mary Tillman, who has long suggested that her son was deliberately killed by his comrades, said she is still looking for answers and looks forward to the congressional hearings next week.
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It has been widely reported by the AP and others that Spc. Bryan O'Neal, who was at Tillman's side as he was killed, told investigators that Tillman was waving his arms shouting "Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat (expletive) Tillman, damn it!" again and again.

But the latest documents give a different account from a chaplain who debriefed the entire unit days after Tillman was killed.

The chaplain said that O'Neal told him he was hugging the ground at Tillman's side, "crying out to God, help us. And Tillman says to him, `Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God's not going to help you; you need to do something for yourself, you sniveling ..."Source (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/26/AR2007072602025_pf.html)

Ibleedburgundy
07-27-2007, 09:06 AM
We've all read the evolving accounts of what happened that day. First they said he was killed in combat and that he was highly respected by his peers. Then they said he was killed by friendly fire in combat from a substantial distance in the dark with smoke everywhere. Now it says there is no evidence of enemy fire, he was hit from a mere ten yards away, and there may have been some animosity...youch. I don't blame his Mom for making those accusations at this point. These guys change their story more than a Durham stripper.

shally
07-27-2007, 09:16 AM
Source (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/26/AR2007072602025_pf.html)

fragged ??

that happened a lot in viet nam. sad if that were the case

BurgundyNGold
07-27-2007, 10:06 AM
fragged ??

that happened a lot in viet nam. sad if that were the case
Special forces aren't known for fragging their own. Most of the fragging in Vietnam happened because so many there were drafted, thrust into an impossible situation and only marginally trained how to succeed.

shally
07-27-2007, 10:12 AM
Special forces aren't known for fragging their own. Most of the fragging in Vietnam happened because so many there were drafted, thrust into an impossible situation and only marginally trained how to succeed.

agree. but, i cant tell from the report whether it was a special forces person who is responsible

and as i recall, many of the fragging incidents were from behind or the side, not face to face

redskin_rich
07-27-2007, 10:18 AM
Special forces aren't known for fragging their own. Most of the fragging in Vietnam happened because so many there were drafted, thrust into an impossible situation and only marginally trained how to succeed.

Special Forces aren't known for whimpering on the ground, crying for God to help either.

RedskinsDave
07-27-2007, 10:37 AM
Special Forces aren't known for whimpering on the ground, crying for God to help either.

They may in the "new" Army since non-military people have softened how they can be trained.

shally
07-27-2007, 11:18 AM
They may in the "new" Army since non-military people have softened how they can be trained.

maybe.. but my understanding is that it is still a very elite group and the training is still rigorous to say the least

BurgundyNGold
07-27-2007, 11:23 AM
Special Forces aren't known for whimpering on the ground, crying for God to help either.
I don't see how that O'Neal could have been Special Forces. He must have been a translator or a medic or something.