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View Full Version : Espy - Will he get a fair shot to start???


koepke25
07-31-2007, 01:37 PM
Every site I read only has good things to say about Espy. I'm not sure if he will ever get the shot he deserves with us.

I feel that our offense sticks with high priced free agents too long and overlooks some of the better players because they weren't drafted. Maybe I'm alone in this, but I truely wonder if Espy has any shot at the #2 or #3 receiver spot no matter what he does in camp.:banghead:

dj_stouty
07-31-2007, 01:48 PM
Every site I read only has good things to say about Espy. I'm not sure if he will ever get the shot he deserves with us.

I feel that our offense sticks with high priced free agents too long and overlooks some of the better players because they weren't drafted. Maybe I'm alone in this, but I truely wonder if Espy has any shot at the #2 or #3 receiver spot no matter what he does in camp.:banghead:

Its very hard for us fans to really know how good Espy is or how good he can be...outside a few training camp sessions and preseason games. But to answer your question; Yes, Gibbs will give him a fair shot, as I believe he does with all of this players. Just because the Skins sign "bigger names" like Corey Bradford or Derrick Blaylock doesn't automatically mean Espy and Rock are goners. However, this also means guys like Espy need to step it up in camp that much more to make the squad.

CNYSkinFan
07-31-2007, 01:52 PM
Uh lets start with making the roster and THEN start pimping him for a starting spot.

akhhorus
07-31-2007, 01:54 PM
What has Espy remotely done to deserve a starting spot?

SpicyMcHaggis
07-31-2007, 01:55 PM
What has Espy remotely done to deserve a starting spot?

Uhm...not be Brandon Lloyd? Lol...

dj_stouty
07-31-2007, 01:56 PM
Uh lets start with making the roster and THEN start pimping him for a starting spot.

Yikes, I didn't even read that part. I thought he was asking if he had a fair shot at making the squad.

koepke25
07-31-2007, 01:57 PM
What has Espy remotely done to deserve a starting spot?

What have Lloyd or Randle El done to deserve a starting spot with us?

Ibleedburgundy
07-31-2007, 01:57 PM
I think Espy will get a fair chance but unfortunately for him Antwaan Randle El, Brandon Lloyd, and James Thrash will also get a fair chance. I'm pulling for Espy to make the team just as much as the next guy but his chances of starting are zero.

LATrueRedskin
07-31-2007, 01:58 PM
Espy is a good prospect, but I don't know if he's good enough to beat out Brandon Lloyd, James Thrash, and Antwaan Randle El in order to gain a starting spot. If he has shown he's better than the players listed above, then I'm sure Gibbs & Co. would have started him by now. I highly doubt Gibbs would not play Espy based on the fact that they have an investment in Brandon Lloyd. The Redskins have shown that they are not afraid of cutting a player and taking a cap hit.

Ibleedburgundy
07-31-2007, 02:01 PM
What have Lloyd or Randle El done to deserve a starting spot with us?

For one, they've both had productive seasons in the NFL although last year was not great for either one receiving stat-wise. Randle El didn't even start most of the games, BL did before the demotion.

koepke25
07-31-2007, 02:02 PM
Espy is a good prospect, but I don't know if he's good enough to beat out Brandon Lloyd, James Thrash, and Antwaan Randle El in order to gain a starting spot. If he has shown he's better than the players listed above, then I'm sure Gibbs & Co. would have started him by now. I highly doubt Gibbs would not play Espy based on the fact that they have an investment in Brandon Lloyd. The Redskins have shown that they are not afraid of cutting a player and taking a cap hit.

Brunell??? Besides a game here and a game there, he was one of the worst QB's in the league the past 3 seasons.

CNYSkinFan
07-31-2007, 02:03 PM
Yikes, I didn't even read that part. I thought he was asking if he had a fair shot at making the squad.
Seriously Jasonb Fabini has more of a shot at starting then Espy. I like Espy but if everyone is healthy he may make the roster but also may be inactive on gamedays (like Patten most of last year).

His biggest hope of oi field action is if rock Cartwright gets hurt and cut and he can become the KR

SpicyMcHaggis
07-31-2007, 02:04 PM
Brunell??? Besides a game here and a game there, he was one of the worst QB's in the league the past 3 seasons.

Brunell should have made the Pro-Bowl in 2005.

shally
07-31-2007, 02:05 PM
Its very hard for us fans to really know how good Espy is or how good he can be...outside a few training camp sessions and preseason games. But to answer your question; Yes, Gibbs will give him a fair shot, as I believe he does with all of this players. Just because the Skins sign "bigger names" like Corey Bradford or Derrick Blaylock doesn't automatically mean Espy and Rock are goners. However, this also means guys like Espy need to step it up in camp that much more to make the squad.

exactly. he needs to make plays. the same way thrash did. make it impossible for gibbs to cut him.

akhhorus
07-31-2007, 02:05 PM
What have Lloyd or Randle El done to deserve a starting spot with us?

Thats not argument. Its trying to prove something with a negative. I can show you where they both have been productive WRs in the NFL. I can't do the same for Espy. Please don't tell me he's going to be this year's Jessie Lumdsen. Espy's done nothing except look okay against 3rd stringers.

shally
07-31-2007, 02:07 PM
Seriously Jasonb Fabini has more of a shot at starting then Espy. I like Espy but if everyone is healthy he may make the roster but also may be inactive on gamedays (like Patten most of last year).

His biggest hope of oi field action is if rock Cartwright gets hurt and cut and he can become the KR

fabini is a multi year starter in the nfl.. you are darn tootin he has a better shot at starting because he HAS started.
espy needs to make the team first based upon his play

redskinz#1fan
07-31-2007, 02:07 PM
Brunell??? Besides a game here and a game there, he was one of the worst QB's in the league the past 3 seasons.

Are you talking about pretty much the entire 05 season? I guess you could call that a game here and there....just about 16 of them strung together.! :rolleyes:

dj_stouty
07-31-2007, 02:07 PM
Brunell should have made the Pro-Bowl in 2005.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

LATrueRedskin
07-31-2007, 02:08 PM
Brunell??? Besides a game here and a game there, he was one of the worst QB's in the league the past 3 seasons.

What about Brunell? What were we going to do, play Patrick Ramsey?

akhhorus
07-31-2007, 02:10 PM
Brunell??? Besides a game here and a game there, he was one of the worst QB's in the league the past 3 seasons.

This is ridiculous. Brunell had a pro bowl-type season in 2005. That alone disqualifies him from being "one of the worst Qbs" since 2004.

redskin_rich
07-31-2007, 02:10 PM
Thats not argument. Its trying to prove something with a negative. I can show you where they both have been productive WRs in the NFL. I can't do the same for Espy. Please don't tell me he's going to be this year's Jessie Lumdsen. Espy's done nothing except look okay against 3rd stringers.

Espy should have been the talk of last year, as he was the most impressive new player in camp. That's why he is still here, for now. He hasn't worked his way off the bubble yet though and it doesn't help that he has now missed a practice or two with a swollen knee.

Espy to start?? Koepke, you have to be kidding.

koepke25
07-31-2007, 02:11 PM
Seriously Jasonb Fabini has more of a shot at starting then Espy. I like Espy but if everyone is healthy he may make the roster but also may be inactive on gamedays (like Patten most of last year).

His biggest hope of oi field action is if rock Cartwright gets hurt and cut and he can become the KR

Why can someone like Colston come out of nowhere to be a top tier receiver and you say that Espy has no shot to beat out Lloyd or Randle El? I hope he gets a fair shot at it. If he really isn't any better than the other WR's than I'm ok with that too.

akhhorus
07-31-2007, 02:12 PM
Why can someone like Colston come out of nowhere to be a top tier receiver and you say that Espy has no shot to beat out Lloyd or Randle El? I hope he gets a fair shot at it. If he really isn't any better than the other WR's than I'm ok with that too.

Colston didn't come out of nowhere. The Scouts liked him, but the Hofstra coaching staff hated him and bad mouthed him to everyone. And he made it clear quickly that he belonged. When did Espy come close to this?

csquared
07-31-2007, 02:14 PM
Oh lord. Cant we just merge this with the Mccardell thread. He will get a fair shot to make the team. But your out of your mind if you think he can start ahead of Randel El or even my favorite player Lloyd :rolleyes:. Randel El brings so much more to the table than Espy could ever dream of.

dj_stouty
07-31-2007, 02:14 PM
For the same reason why Scott Cloman didn't turn into the next Marques Colston.

Welcome to our annual "love-affair with a longshot WR" thread....

koepke25
07-31-2007, 02:17 PM
This is ridiculous. Brunell had a pro bowl-type season in 2005. That alone disqualifies him from being "one of the worst Qbs" since 2004.

Go back and look at your game logs for 2005. He didn't throw for more than 200 yard in the last 7 games and didn't throw over 226 yards in the last 10 games of the season. Don't kid yourself that he did anything to help us that year. We might as well have had Grossman.

Sweepea436
07-31-2007, 02:17 PM
For the same reason why Scott Cloman didn't turn into the next Marques Colston.

Welcome to our annual "love-affair with a longshot WR" thread....

Darn that Mark Walhberg for being so good in "Invincible"........ lol

dj_stouty
07-31-2007, 02:21 PM
Go back and look at your game logs for 2005. He didn't throw for more than 200 yard in the last 7 games and didn't throw over 226 yards in the last 10 games of the season. Don't kid yourself that he did anything to help us that year. We might as well have had Grossman.

To paraphrase Whitesnake: "Here we go again"...

akhhorus
07-31-2007, 02:21 PM
Go back and look at your game logs for 2005. He didn't throw for more than 200 yard in the last 7 games and didn't throw over 226 yards in the last 10 games of the season. Don't kid yourself that he did anything to help us that year. We might as well have had Grossman.

Right, because a Qb throwing for 4 tds(against Dallas) has nothing to do with winning the game. Or throwing 2 Tds in 11 attempts in 1.5 quarters of work against New York. :rolleyes: Let it go: Ramsey is gone and the notion is foolish if you honestly think Brunell didn't have much to do with winning in 2005. He had 3000 yards and 23 Tds.

csquared
07-31-2007, 02:23 PM
To paraphrase Whitesnake: "Here we go again"...

Your the big chief mod Close it down and shut it out! Because this guy is :crazy:

akhhorus
07-31-2007, 02:23 PM
To paraphrase Whitesnake: "Here we go again"...

Ive said it before, and I'll say it again. This man:

http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2006/03/17/PH2006031701237.jpg

Has a future as a David Koresh-esque cult leader after he retires from the NFL.

hail2skins
07-31-2007, 02:23 PM
attack the content, not the person.

Patrick
07-31-2007, 02:24 PM
If I were him (and he probably is) I'd be doing a lot of ST work. Even PR and KR if they let him. He's got a shot at the #4 spot but will have his hands full in displacing Thrash.

LATrueRedskin
07-31-2007, 02:24 PM
Go back and look at your game logs for 2005. He didn't throw for more than 200 yard in the last 7 games and didn't throw over 226 yards in the last 10 games of the season. Don't kid yourself that he did anything to help us that year. We might as well have had Grossman.

3,000 yards, 23TDs/10INTs, and 36 pass plays over 20 yards, and a playoff berth still look pretty darn good though. But let's get back on topic.

koepke25
07-31-2007, 02:28 PM
Right, because a Qb throwing for 4 tds(against Dallas) has nothing to do with winning the game. Or throwing 2 Tds in 11 attempts in 1.5 quarters of work against New York. :rolleyes: Let it go: Ramsey is gone and you're a fool if you think Brunell didn't have much to do with winning in 2005. He had 3000 yards and 23 Tds.

Did you watch the same games I did that season. He had more screen passes and 5 yard hitch routes turn into huge plays than any other QB in the league. 6 of his TD's came on the same play that a trained monkey could made, play action on the goal line to a WIDE open Sellers. I sit here and read a lot of your posts and agree with a decent amount of them, but you are crazy if you think Brunell was good over the entire 2005 season.

shally
07-31-2007, 02:28 PM
what colston did have going for him (besides talent and desire) was the arrival of a totally new regime that had no committment towards prior high draft picks (like stallworth) and gave everyone a clean start.

shally
07-31-2007, 02:30 PM
Did you watch the same games I did that season. He had more screen passes and 5 yard hitch routes turn into huge plays than any other QB in the league. 6 of his TD's came on the same play that a trained monkey could made, play action on the goal line to a WIDE open Sellers. I sit here and read a lot of your posts and agree with a decent amount of them, but you are crazy if you think Brunell was good over the entire 2005 season.

he had 36 pass plays over 20 yards.. who cares what those plays were, he figured the right calls to get it done. you cant take that away from him

akhhorus
07-31-2007, 02:32 PM
Did you watch the same games I did that season. He had more screen passes and 5 yard hitch routes turn into huge plays than any other QB in the league. 6 of his TD's came on the same play that a trained monkey could made, play action on the goal line to a WIDE open Sellers. I sit here and read a lot of your posts and agree with a decent amount of them, but you are crazy if you think Brunell was good over the entire 2005 season.

Don't think that shallow attempts at flattery will earn you any points. Moss was good, but he wasn't that good. Brunell had 9 passes for over 40 yards, 36 over 20 yards. I don't know how anyone can think that:
A-Brunell wasn't good in 2005
B-His passes were all hitches and short passes.

Unless they just want to dump on Brunell for no reason. But, looking at the premise of this thread again, it makes sense for you to think that.

dj_stouty
07-31-2007, 02:34 PM
I will close this thread if it continues to turn into another Brunell debate. We have all been down that road a million times and it has nothing to do with Espy starting at WR.

akhhorus
07-31-2007, 02:35 PM
I will close this thread if it continues to turn into another Brunell debate. We have all been down that road a million times and it has nothing to do with Espy starting at WR.

Maybe if Espy didn't have to deal with Brunell as his Qb, he would have become a starter last year ;)

koepke25
07-31-2007, 02:35 PM
he had 36 pass plays over 20 yards.. who cares what those plays were, he figured the right calls to get it done. you cant take that away from him

I watched the games and every week Brunell couldn't consistantly make a throw over 10 yards and many times missed open recievers closer than that. I understand that he had some big plays, but understand that any QB in the league will have a few big plays if you force them to throw deep the entire 2nd half of some games.

Moe
07-31-2007, 02:43 PM
Is there something about Espy in particular that compelled you to start this thread?

I know it happens every year but I don't really understand the annual facination that occurs in pre-season with random depth players. If they're good enough then they'll make the squad and as a result help the team. If not then who cares? To this point, Espy was able to finally earned some PT late last year but that's all that can be said for him. He's got another shot this year and that's all he deserves.

koepke25
07-31-2007, 02:51 PM
Is there something about Espy in particular that compelled you to start this thread?

I know it happens every year but I don't really understand the annual facination that occurs in pre-season with random depth players. If they're good enough then they'll make the squad and as a result help the team. If not then who cares? To this point, Espy was able to finally earned some PT late last year but that's all that can be said for him. He's got another shot this year and that's all he deserves.

I was reading on Scout.com training camp blog how well he was doing even with the 1st team offense and was wondering if anyone thought he would get a fair shot to start. Obviously I struck a chord with some of the members here, but oh well.

I don't have anything invested in Espy except that if he does emerge as the 2nd best WR it will give us great depth.

Moe
07-31-2007, 03:03 PM
I was reading on Scout.com training camp blog how well he was doing even with the 1st team offense and was wondering if anyone thought he would get a fair shot to start. Obviously I struck a chord with some of the members here, but oh well.

I don't have anything invested in Espy except that if he does emerge as the 2nd best WR it will give us great depth.


Hopefully he keeps it up and isn't just a practice all-star. This team could certainly use some young talent, but we'll see in short order.

silverspring
07-31-2007, 03:22 PM
Realistically money has to come into play. Assuming no injuries occur, moss, lloyd and are are locked in to at least start the season with the top 3 spots because of this. Additionally while lloyd and are haven't done much as skins all 3 of them at least have done something in the nfl and that is of course why they are getting that money.

I think a much more realistic question would be will espy get a real shot at the #4 spot? I would like to see espy make the team and split time with thrash at #4 until one of them stands out. We really need some youthful talent, especially affordable youthful talent. I don't see why we can't carry all 5, he would just be taking patten's spot and he also can contribute on teams.

If he continues to show something, the only reason against him is he isn't particularly big and size is the one thing we could use at WR.

shally
07-31-2007, 03:41 PM
espy not on field today because of bruised knee.

if he doesnt practice and play, for certain he wont make team. as parcells was want to say, you cant make the team from the whirlpool

HanburgerBum
07-31-2007, 04:09 PM
So far, Espy has shown only enough to stick as the 5th WR. Of course, he has had very few opportunities with the first string to show his stuff. But, that's life for an undrafted FA.

And, it's unlikely Espy will get many chances with the first string this preseason unless a few breaks come his way.

1) Lloyd, who has apparently been running open a lot in practices, reverts to his 2006 ways.

2) ARE shows that he doesn't have the speed or size to be the No. 2 and is sent back to the slot.

3) Thrash loses more speed and is no longer a viable option.

4) Cory Bradford or McAddeley has lost a step.

5) One or more of the above players gets injured.

So, instead of wondering if he will get a shot to start, Espy should work hard on his special team skills while waiting for his opportunity. Having said that, I do want the Skins to keep at least one young WR to groom. This team needs to get younger.

shally
07-31-2007, 04:12 PM
So far, Espy has shown only enough to stick as the 5th WR. Of course, he has had very few opportunities with the first string to show his stuff. But, that's life for an undrafted FA.

And, it's unlikely Espy will get many chances with the first string this preseason unless a few breaks come his way.

1) Lloyd, who has apparently been running open a lot in practices, reverts to his 2006 ways.

2) ARE shows that he doesn't have the speed or size to be the No. 2 and is sent back to the slot.

3) Thrash loses more speed and is no longer a viable option.

4) Cory Bradford or McAddeley has lost a step.

5) One or more of the above players gets injured.

So, instead of wondering if he will get a shot to start, Espy should work hard on his special team skills while waiting for his opportunity. Having said that, I do want the Skins to keep at least one young WR to groom. This team needs to get younger.

espy should get some chances in scrimmages and preseason (hopefully losing portis last year has made an impact upon gibbs) so it will be what he does when he gets in that will determine his future.
he simply needs to make plays and avoid turnovers at all costs

Battle Cat
07-31-2007, 07:16 PM
Did you watch the same games I did that season. He had more screen passes and 5 yard hitch routes turn into huge plays than any other QB in the league. 6 of his TD's came on the same play that a trained monkey could made, play action on the goal line to a WIDE open Sellers. I sit here and read a lot of your posts and agree with a decent amount of them, but you are crazy if you think Brunell was good over the entire 2005 season.
He was good at handing off after Clinton Portis and the O Line got together and went to the coaching staff and told them to stop throwing the ball so much and put it in the hands of the running game and Portis and the O Line ran off 5-6 great rushing games to put us in the playoffs. He handed off like a Pro Bowler, Portis left Portis right Portis up the middle reminded me of John Elway (after Terrell Davis got there).

Keino
07-31-2007, 07:27 PM
Go back and look at your game logs for 2005. He didn't throw for more than 200 yard in the last 7 games and didn't throw over 226 yards in the last 10 games of the season. Don't kid yourself that he did anything to help us that year. We might as well have had Grossman.

You mean the last 7 games, all of which were wins? Or the last 7 games in which Clinton Portis rushed for over 100 yards in six of them? Or do you mean the last 7 games we had to win to make the playoffs that we won with Brunell at the Helm?

If you are going to argue he didn't do anything that year, Dallas week 2 Monday night is on the line for you and insists on speaking with you.

redskin_rich
07-31-2007, 07:30 PM
He was good at handing off after Clinton Portis and the O Line got together and went to the coaching staff and told them to stop throwing the ball so much and put it in the hands of the running game and Portis and the O Line ran off 5-6 great rushing games to put us in the playoffs. He handed off like a Pro Bowler, Portis left Portis right Portis up the middle reminded me of John Elway (after Terrell Davis got there).

Wow... And I didn't think this thread could get any more ridiculous.
Here is your sign:
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7348/villageofwronguo6.th.jpg (http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=villageofwronguo6.jpg)

stonebraker
07-31-2007, 11:18 PM
I sincerly hope Espy isn't given a chance to start regardless of how well he does in non-meaningful games against players who will be cut before the final pre-season game. I suppose that's just me.

skinsfan36
07-31-2007, 11:45 PM
to start? no. to play? yes

Death_Venom
08-01-2007, 12:04 AM
Unless Thrash shows some serious decline in ability I don't think Espy will anything more than be our #5 or more than likely on the PS........

dj_stouty
08-01-2007, 08:33 AM
Espy has as much a chance to start as Casey Bramlet does...

James F. Quinn
08-01-2007, 12:21 PM
espy not on field today because of bruised knee.

if he doesnt practice and play, for certain he wont make team. as parcells was want to say, you cant make the team from the whirlpool

"You can't make the club from the tub."

shally
08-01-2007, 12:22 PM
"You can't make the club from the tub."

thanks for the correct quote.. that is it...

OCSkinzFan
08-01-2007, 02:07 PM
"You can't make the club from the tub."...Unless you are Chris Samules or Clinton Portis...

CNYSkinFan
08-01-2007, 02:12 PM
Espy has as much a chance to start as Casey Bramlet does...
but he was nfle MVP...How can you think so low of him :rolleyes:

James F. Quinn
08-01-2007, 02:40 PM
...Unless you are Chris Samules or Clinton Portis...

They have already made the club and are established starters. The saying applies to people who are not established starters and are simply trying to survive the cuts and bottom-of-the-roster churning. Being hurt and not being able to get out there and show their stuff lengthens the odds against them.

OCSkinzFan
08-03-2007, 01:08 AM
They have already made the club and are established starters. The saying applies to people who are not established starters and are simply trying to survive the cuts and bottom-of-the-roster churning. Being hurt and not being able to get out there and show their stuff lengthens the odds against them.

Thanks for elucidating on the very complicated context of that quote. I wasn't aware that Portis and Samules were "established starters." Wow, this team sure is hard to keep up with isn't it...

colkurtz
08-03-2007, 06:02 AM
Espy needs to follow the Thrash model if he wnts to makes it on this team:

1. Be a ST monster.

2. Be a steady WR who they can count on when the chips are down.

The fact that Espy can't move ahead of a guy like Thrash who has 9 more seasons under his belt tells you something about Espy.

Not sure I get the point of this thread. If Espy was lighting up the joint they'd move him ahead of Brandon Lloyd or higher in a nano-second. They'd love to dump BL's salary for that of an undrafted guy - ANY DAY if he truelly is the better player.

redwolf1218
08-03-2007, 07:28 AM
i dont think they would have brought in McAdley or Bradford if they had a ton of confidence in Espy. i think they want someone with some height for that last spot, and right now all we got is smurfs.

Hr fan
08-03-2007, 07:53 AM
Will Espy get a fair shot at starting? No. Needs experience, must get on by ST. He was available to all teams in season last yr and got no nibbles - maybe he isn't as good as some seem to think.

playboy1972
08-03-2007, 02:16 PM
He was the most productive receiver in the pre season last year and couldn't get a sniff. Hopefully, they will change but I doubt it.

CNYSkinFan
08-03-2007, 02:22 PM
He was the most productive receiver in the pre season last year and couldn't get a sniff. Hopefully, they will change but I doubt it.
there were 5 established vets ahead of him last year. He needed a year on the PS.

This year there are 4 established vets ahead of him and he is fighting for the fifth spot with two journeymen from other teams.

He is where he should be at this point in his career.