Skins Interested in Rice?

[JsMaViSd]

I have seen several articles saying we are one of the few teams that have gave interest in Rice.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08012007/sports/giants/blue_yonder_giants_paul_schwartz.htm?page=0

[Redskin-4-life]

I hope we get him instead of the Giants. Rice, if healthy is what we need to apply pressure to increase turnovers for the defense.

[shally]

have to see what happens in ny

but Osi is not exactly anxious to have him there, so there is no great welcoming committee

i wonder what assistant GM antonio pierce has to say on the subject ?

[dj_stouty]

Hey...if Dr. Daniels, er...;) I mean Dr. Andrews from Alabama says the shoulder is fine, then the shoulder is fine. He is as authoritive on this subject as anyone in the country. Rice is 1 year younger than Daniels and he has 64.5 more career sacks than him. Immediate upgrade, IMO.

I'd go after him, assuming the price is right for a slightly banged up 33 year old DE.

[Keino]

My thoughts on this issue can be found right here:

http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=41957

[dj_stouty]

My thoughts on this issue can be found right here:

http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=41957

Any idea of which page these thoughts can be found?

[Keino]

Any idea of which page these thoughts can be found?


All 4, What, you adverse to reading too?

[dj_stouty]

All 4, What, you adverse to reading too?

All 4? There are 10 total pages and your thoughts weren't on the first page, so I asked. :D

[Keino]

All 4? There are 10 total pages and your thoughts weren't on the first page, so I asked. :D

Why are my page countes different than everyone else's?

That thread has 4 pages according to my set-up. Similarly, the Dline Sucks thread (Ranked last by Scouts Inc.) I've seen people say 40 pages, but I show 16 pages.

It must be a User CP issue and I must have my settings so that there are a bunch of posts per page, which IMO makes browsing the site easier.

Anyways, My thoughts are all over that thread, giving the local take on the Rice release, and specifically my opinion on adding him to the Skins. The last few pages are probably most relevant to this thread.

[MONK_in_HOF]

Hey...if Dr. Daniels, er...;) I mean Dr. Andrews from Alabama says the shoulder is fine, then the shoulder is fine. He is as authoritive on this subject as anyone in the country. Rice is 1 year younger than Daniels and he has 64.5 more career sacks than him. Immediate upgrade, IMO.

I'd go after him, assuming the price is right for a slightly banged up 33 year old DE.

My sentiments exactly. Rice, if healthy enough, can provide the rush from DE this team has missed for ages. As long as the price isn't ridiculous I would be thrilled to have Rice over Daniels. It's not like Daniels isn't an injury risk.

[CarMike]

Its past time for Redskin fans to realize the FO/Coaches have zero interest in upgrading our DEs. There has been plenty of opporunity for them to do it, yet they have not made a move. And Gibbs even said last week that we didn't have any interest in Rice.

[techskinsfan]

do you think this is a samari rolle move, where his agent said we were going to give him 15 mil in guarantees just to drive up his price. I thought I read a week ago in an article that we were not impressed with his attitude, health among a few other issues. Correct me if i am wrong but i thought the front office ruled him out.

I am indifferent to signing Rice. The D-line has been ignored all offseason so I think they need somebody, but I don't think overpaying is an option with cooley's contract expiring and taylors contract losing years as well (you know hes gonna want around Landry money). It wouldnt hurt to add someone of his pedigree but at the right price as always.

[Spence]

Its past time for Redskin fans to realize the FO/Coaches have zero interest in upgrading our DEs. There has been plenty of opporunity for them to do it, yet they have not made a move. And Gibbs even said last week that we didn't have any interest in Rice.Yeah, that's a good point, Mike. I just don't get it. They must see A LOT more in that defensive line than I do. 'Cause what I see is Reason #1 the Redskins miss the playoffs in 2007.

[akhhorus]

Yeah, that's a good point, Mike. I just don't get it. They must see A LOT more in that defensive line than I do. 'Cause what I see is Reason #1 the Redskins miss the playoffs in 2007.

I don't know what team you're watching, because the Dline is fine! And no one in the NFL has a good dline anyways [/Sarcastic spoof of inane poster]

[RedskinsVision]

They've been working in M. Washington to rush on passing downs but with his hip problems maybe it's best to get another situational pass rusher. Although Rice would be expensive and might not fit Williams' system, he'd still be an improvement and we'd actually have 2 very capable DE's.

[James F. Quinn]

Its past time for Redskin fans to realize the FO/Coaches have zero interest in upgrading our DEs. There has been plenty of opporunity for them to do it, yet they have not made a move. And Gibbs even said last week that we didn't have any interest in Rice.

It may just be unfounded innuendo, but I have read comments about Rice not being the greatest kind of guy in the locker room and as a teammate in general. It's possible that Gibbs may have that same opinion.

[James F. Quinn]

I don't know what team you're watching, because the Dline is fine! And no one in the NFL has a good dline anyways [/Sarcastic spoof of inane poster]

...And who needs a darned old DL anyway?! DL is SOOOO last year!

[Keino]

It may just be unfounded innuendo, but I have read comments about Rice not being the greatest kind of guy in the locker room and as a teammate in general. It's possible that Gibbs may have that same opinion.


And my point to that is that Tampa has been very tricky in terms of portraying Rice in negative terms to justify their penny pinching.

How does Gibbs know what kind of guy he is without talking to him? Do we want to win or tend to the feelings of Sub-par players already occupying the DE position?

If Daniels is moved to a back-up role, then that would mean that Wynn could shift inside, where at tis stage of his career he is better suited.

[Spence]

Beggars can't afford to be choosers. I'd like to have a team full of Boy Scouts, but we already know we don't have that. Unless Simeon Rice is molesting children or running a dog-fighting business on the side, the Skins should go after him. They probably won't, but they should.

[shally]

Beggars can't afford to be choosers. I'd like to have a team full of Boy Scouts, but we already know we don't have that. Unless Simeon Rice is molesting children or running a dog-fighting business on the side, the Skins should go after him. They probably won't, but they should.


others here have pointed out the repercussions to the lockerroom if that happens..especially after pumping up the d line all off season

not saying he wouldnt help, only that there is more to it than that. things arent exactly warm and rosey in NY when last i heard

[shally]

And my point to that is that Tampa has been very tricky in terms of portraying Rice in negative terms to justify their penny pinching.

How does Gibbs know what kind of guy he is without talking to him? Do we want to win or tend to the feelings of Sub-par players already occupying the DE position?

If Daniels is moved to a back-up role, then that would mean that Wynn could shift inside, where at tis stage of his career he is better suited.

i think there is plenty record of what type a player is after he has been in the league as long as rice has...

[Keino]

Beggars can't afford to be choosers. I'd like to have a team full of Boy Scouts, but we already know we don't have that. Unless Simeon Rice is molesting children or running a dog-fighting business on the side, the Skins should go after him. They probably won't, but they should.

Exactly. The only legit reason I've seen posted for not going after him is that he plays on the Right side, and can't play the left. Does anyone believe that Phillip Daniels can play the left? Thats the question anyone who doesn't think we should be talking to Rice should ask themselves, including Gibbs and GW.

[Keino]

i think there is plenty record of what type a player is after he has been in the league as long as rice has...

I agree, which is why the whole "Lockerroom Cancer" nonsense being put out by the Bucs based on last year should be taken with a grain of salt. Ask guys like Derrick Brooks how he is in the lockeroom. Ask guys like Rich McKay and Tony Dungy, who brought him to Tampa.

We do know he has an argument for the HOF and can play at a high level. It is retarded for us not to be entertaining the notion of bringing him on. I don't mean stoned retarded either, I mean Downs Syndrome retarded.

I hate Vinny.

[James F. Quinn]

How does Gibbs know what kind of guy he is without talking to him?

I think player and media types, and coaches, and front office people talk to each other a lot, unofficially. It's possible that Gibbs & Co. have a file on all the possibles as p/o their overall scouting process.

I understand what you are saying about not fielding a team of Boy Scouts, and choirboys, but there are people with prickly personalities and then there are people who simply destroy their surroundings. It's all a matter of figuring out who is which, and how much their onfield production is offset by their off-field disruptiveness.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

Exactly. The only legit reason I've seen posted for not going after him is that he plays on the Right side, and can't play the left. Does anyone believe that Phillip Daniels can play the left? Thats the question anyone who doesn't think we should be talking to Rice should ask themselves, including Gibbs and GW.

If healthy, I would like to see him on this team also. But, there has to be a reason why no one else is running after this guy other than an injury that is supposed to be 100% before the season starts.

[Patrick]

Yeah, that's a good point, Mike. I just don't get it. They must see A LOT more in that defensive line than I do. 'Cause what I see is Reason #1 the Redskins miss the playoffs in 2007.

You know - IF Rice where to walk thur Redskins Park this afternoon and tell Gibbs he wanted to play for the Skins regardless of contract $$ - I honestly believe Gibbs would say - "Thanks for the offer but WE are good."

[James F. Quinn]

You know - IF Rice where to walk thur Redskins Park this afternoon and tell Gibbs he wanted to play for the Skins regardless of contract $$ - I honestly believe Gibbs would say - "Thanks for the offer but WE are good."

And until Chris Samuels gets healthy, Simeon would have a clear path to get to Joe.

[PyroGenic]

My sentiments exactly. Rice, if healthy enough, can provide the rush from DE this team has missed for ages. As long as the price isn't ridiculous I would be thrilled to have Rice over Daniels. It's not like Daniels isn't an injury risk.

Everybody knows that Rice is going to be taking Carter's spot on the line right? He can't play on any other spot.

[BurgundyNGold]

You know - IF Rice where to walk thur Redskins Park this afternoon and tell Gibbs he wanted to play for the Skins regardless of contract $$ - I honestly believe Gibbs would say - "Thanks for the offer but WE are good."
If Gibbs actually did that then we'd have to start fashioning another crucifix to put alongside GW for his sins against the DL.

[Spence]

Everybody knows that Rice is going to be taking Carter's spot on the line right? He can't play on any other spot.There are plenty of ways around that. For starters, the Skins could bring Rice off the bench and protect him against injuries by using him as a 3rd down pass rusher. Move him into his favorite spot and make Carter a blitzing linebacker in those situations. Any decent coach knows how to get his 11 best players on the field at the same time. Gregg Williams is the highest-paid assistant coach in the NFL. Let him earn a paycheck and figure it out.

[Keino]

You know - IF Rice where to walk thur Redskins Park this afternoon and tell Gibbs he wanted to play for the Skins regardless of contract $$ - I honestly believe Gibbs would say - "Thanks for the offer but WE are good."


If that actually happenned, I would lose alot of the respect that I have garnered for Gibbs over the past 26 years, and I would want him to hang it up immediately. We won when Joe Gibbs was a ruthless SOB. Where no vet was safe on the roster and pivotal role players feared for their job security. Where we tolerated the antics of Dexter Manley, because of what he provided on the field.

If he were to do that, I would no longer thing Gibbs was serious about winning and I would be heartbroken and utterly disappointed.

[BurgundyNGold]

If that actually happenned, I would lose alot of the respect that I have garnered for Gibbs over the past 26 years, and I would want him to hang it up immediately. We won when Joe Gibbs was a ruthless SOB. Where no vet was safe on the roster and pivotal role players feared for their job security. Where we tolerated the antics of Dexter Manley, because of what he provided on the field.

If he were to do that, I would no longer thing Gibbs was serious about winning and I would be heartbroken and utterly disappointed.
Agreed. If there's anything that could tarnish Gibbs' legacy and turn the fans it would be if Gibbs' actively made decisions that did not put winning first. But that's out of character and I haven't seen any of that.

[firehawk157]

Any word on what kinda contract he's going to want???

[Patrick]

If that actually happenned, I would lose alot of the respect that I have garnered for Gibbs over the past 26 years, and I would want him to hang it up immediately. We won when Joe Gibbs was a ruthless SOB. Where no vet was safe on the roster and pivotal role players feared for their job security. Where we tolerated the antics of Dexter Manley, because of what he provided on the field.

If he were to do that, I would no longer thing Gibbs was serious about winning and I would be heartbroken and utterly disappointed.

Agreed. If there's anything that could tarnish Gibbs' legacy and turn the fans it would be if Gibbs' actively made decisions that did not put winning first. But that's out of character and I haven't seen any of that.

My heart sides with you and Kenio and understands where you both coming from.
My mind is confused with Gibbs approach (or lack of) when it come to the defense. I'm having a hard time understanding where he's coming from when he justified drafting Landry with the statement that it will help make the D-Line better. That my friends is Ass-Backward thinking to building a good Defense.
AND as GREAT of coach he was in the 80's - well this ain't the 80's and his three year record ain't great. Maybe no tarnish but there appears to be some wear.
BUT as always - there's hoping - BUT it's got to be this season!

[jaylen]

I trust that GW can fix the defense he got alittle arrogant last season in his thinking by letting the depth slip and reaching for Archuleta but if he thinks db is the way to go I trust it. I think he figures he can rig a rush with blitzes if we have coverage hold up.

Rice would be an upgrade but I have visions of the Human Windmill part 2 (Bruce Smith), he could be a situational pass rusher.

[Moe]

If that actually happenned, I would lose alot of the respect that I have garnered for Gibbs over the past 26 years, and I would want him to hang it up immediately. We won when Joe Gibbs was a ruthless SOB. Where no vet was safe on the roster and pivotal role players feared for their job security. Where we tolerated the antics of Dexter Manley, because of what he provided on the field.

If he were to do that, I would no longer thing Gibbs was serious about winning and I would be heartbroken and utterly disappointed.\

That's being a bit dramatic considering nobody knows the true state of Rice's health, nor what his financial demands are (not to mention the liklihood of the original scenario even taking place being less than my chances of dating Jessica Alba, curing cancer and kicking Chuck Norris' rear in the same afternoon. Just kidding Chuck.)
I also think it's really unfair to project anything onto Gibbs and his drive based strictly on situational W-L columns and snippets from the media.

[Keino]

\

That's being a bit dramatic considering nobody knows the true state of Rice's health, nor what his financial demands are (not to mention the liklihood of the original scenario even taking place being less than my chances of dating Jessica Alba, curing cancer and kicking Chuck Norris' rear in the same afternoon. Just kidding Chuck.)
I also think it's really unfair to project anything onto Gibbs and his drive based strictly on situational W-L columns and snippets from the media.

Moe did you see the post this was in response to?

Here is is again:

You know - IF Rice where to walk thur Redskins Park this afternoon and tell Gibbs he wanted to play for the Skins regardless of contract $$ - I honestly believe Gibbs would say - "Thanks for the offer but WE are good."

I hardly think my response to the above scenario as being dramatic.

Now we all know that wouldn't happen, but IF that were the case, and Gibbs turned it down, it would be time for him to retire, again. Point Blank.....Or Arthur Blank if you prefer.

And how are we to determine the true state of Rice's health and financial demands if we don't make the inquiry?

[firehawk157]

Just throwing this out there, but we could cut Daniels and save a decent chunk of change on the cap. Probably enough to sign Rice/Strahan and resign Cooley. With all these overaged DEs out there, what's the deal with Alex Brown?

[Hrabanmaur]

I don't think its wise to go after Rice. Yes, he would improve the line this year, but where's the wisdom in adding an older, injured player to an already older, injured line? Wasn't this the same disturbed logic that brought Daniels into town (and left us cap-strapped to keep him on)?

If we can sign him to a one year contract, then I would consider it. But, I seriously doubt after the kind of career Rice has had that he'll be looking for just a one year contract. More likely than not, he'll want a multi-year contract, which is bad news for us (or any potential suitor). He's also got the reputation for being soft on the run -- is that really what we want while competing in the NFC East?

Our D-line is a problem, but I don't think Rice is the solution.

[James F. Quinn]

I don't think its wise to go after Rice. Yes, he would improve the line this year, but where's the wisdom in adding an older, injured player to an already older, injured line? Wasn't this the same disturbed logic that brought Daniels into town (and left us cap-strapped to keep him on)?

If we can sign him to a one year contract, then I would consider it. But, I seriously doubt after the kind of career Rice has had that he'll be looking for just a one year contract. More likely than not, he'll want a multi-year contract, which is bad news for us (or any potential suitor). He's also got the reputation for being soft on the run -- is that really what we want while competing in the NFC East?

Our D-line is a problem, but I don't think Rice is the solution.

...Or, if Rice is the answer, what's the question?

[dj_stouty]

My mind is confused with Gibbs approach (or lack of) when it come to the defense.

My only guess is that Gibbs has handed over too much autonomy to GW on fixing the defense. GW feeds him the pitch...and Gibbs reiterates it to the press.

Delegating authority is fine, if you get results. At some point, as a leader, you have to step in and take control of the situation. Oddly enough, I'm pretty sure I read this in one of Gibbs' books on leadership. Seems to me that the coach needs to brush up on his own stuff...

[James F. Quinn]

My only guess is that Gibbs has handed over too much autonomy to GW on fixing the defense. GW feeds him the pitch...and Gibbs reiterates it to the press.

Delegating authority is fine, if you get results. At some point, as a leader, you have to step in and take control of the situation. Oddly enough, I'm pretty sure I read this in one of Gibbs' books on leadership. Seems to me that the coach needs to brush up on his own stuff...

I guess that Joe is following the delegation model that worked so wel when Richie Petitbon was the DC.

So far, Gregg Williams is no Richie Petitbon.

[Moe]

Moe did you see the post this was in response to?

Here is is again:



I hardly think my response to the above scenario as being dramatic.

Now we all know that wouldn't happen, but IF that were the case, and Gibbs turned it down, it would be time for him to retire, again. Point Blank.....Or Arthur Blank if you prefer.

And how are we to determine the true state of Rice's health and financial demands if we don't make the inquiry?


No I got it, hence my wild dreamscape. I say it's dramatic because that implies that Rice is the difference beetween this team winning and Gibbs is disregarding that. Rice 'might' help this D, or he might be a broken down waste of space, but either way he's unlikely to be the delta between a championship and another middling season. We're not talking about him turning away Julius Peppers here. As for knowing his health/demands, who's to say they don't? The NFL is a league of circles and people share tons of info between themselves that goes unreported and unnoticed.

Now none of this is to suggest I share the confidence this staff has exhibited in the D, but I also don't think they'll be in the bottom of the league at seasons end. If Rice looks like a good fit then so be it, if they feel otherwise then this is all wasted energy. I realize I'm still getting a gauge on the folks in this forum being a newbie, but outside of being interesting conversation, this particular player in this particular situation did make me think that your reaction was dramatic. No disrepect intended, just my $.02.

[Keino]

No I got it, hence my wild dreamscape. I say it's dramatic because that implies that Rice is the difference beetween this team winning and Gibbs is disregarding that. Rice 'might' help this D, or he might be a broken down waste of space, but either way he's unlikely to be the delta between a championship and another middling season. We're not talking about him turning away Julius Peppers here. As for knowing his health/demands, who's to say they don't? The NFL is a league of circles and people share tons of info between themselves that goes unreported and unnoticed.

Now none of this is to suggest I share the confidence this staff has exhibited in the D, but I also don't think they'll be in the bottom of the league at seasons end. If Rice looks like a good fit then so be it, if they feel otherwise then this is all wasted energy. I realize I'm still getting a gauge on the folks in this forum being a newbie, but outside of being interesting conversation, this particular player in this particular situation did make me think that your reaction was dramatic. No disrepect intended, just my $.02.

I agree we aren't talking Julius Peppers, or hell a young Rice. My problem goes back to the failure to address the D line at all. Yes, I want to sign Rice, but I would be ok not signing Rice if I saw the team being proactive in making the determination, especially when it such a weak part of our team.

To say flat out, we aren't interested is Puzzling to anyone who understands the basic tenets of NFL defense. He can't possibly be worse than Wynn/Daniels.

[dannyskins]

:sun:[To say flat out, we aren't interested is Puzzling to anyone who understands the basic tenets of NFL defense. He can't possibly be worse than Wynn/Daniels.[/QUOTE]

Very well said and if the price is right(Meaning not overpaying) Rice can not help I believe be a upgrade over Wynn and Daniels, and if we cut both we should save a few dollars or used those amounts to pay Rice and Cooley.

[bergiemoore]

I agree we aren't talking Julius Peppers, or hell a young Rice. My problem goes back to the failure to address the D line at all. Yes, I want to sign Rice, but I would be ok not signing Rice if I saw the team being proactive in making the determination, especially when it such a weak part of our team.

To say flat out, we aren't interested is Puzzling to anyone who understands the basic tenets of NFL defense. He can't possibly be worse than Wynn/Daniels.

You know, I think you're right. There's absolutely no harm in looking at Rice. The man's worst year was last year, playing in only 8 games, and his stats are still better than Demetric Evans and Renaldo Wynn's.

My only question would be how well does he play LDE? I think he's spent much of his career on the other side.

[JsMaViSd]

you all have to consider how much were paying daniels as it is..

we get rice for cheap, get rid of daniels...we'd be saving money and getting more production

[MONK_in_HOF]

Everybody knows that Rice is going to be taking Carter's spot on the line right? He can't play on any other spot.

I don't care who Rice would replace as he has shown throughout his career he can consistently apply pressure, those already on our supposed fully stocked DL have not.

[The Skinsinator]

you all have to consider how much were paying daniels as it is..

we get rice for cheap, get rid of daniels...we'd be saving money and getting more productionGetting Rice for cheap isn't an option. The man wants to get paid and is the main reason the Bucs released him. I also am quite befuddled our front office doesn't want to look at him. Very puzzled.

[Skins-R-Us]

From what I have heard and read, Rice is a run liability on first and second downs. He is a hell of a pass rusher, but I think he would have to be used as a pass rush specialist. Would that help? Hell yes, for the right price!

[SkinsfaninNJ]

My only guess is that Gibbs has handed over too much autonomy to GW on fixing the defense. GW feeds him the pitch...and Gibbs reiterates it to the press.

Delegating authority is fine, if you get results. At some point, as a leader, you have to step in and take control of the situation. Oddly enough, I'm pretty sure I read this in one of Gibbs' books on leadership. Seems to me that the coach needs to brush up on his own stuff...

I don't get that at all. I think he is very much involved in personnel on O and D. I think he allows GW to design the D, and they talk about the type of players that fit into what GW is trying to do, but I don't buy that Gibbs wouldn't know what kind of talent Rice is. If Gibbs doesn't think Rice works here (money, attitude, whatever), I truly believe that is a decision Gibbs has come to in his own mind (maybe with GW's help), but definitely in his own mind.

[Keino]

You know, I think you're right. There's absolutely no harm in looking at Rice. The man's worst year was last year, playing in only 8 games, and his stats are still better than Demetric Evans and Renaldo Wynn's.

My only question would be how well does he play LDE? I think he's spent much of his career on the other side.

Assuming he cannot play LDE, then we do as Spence suggested, which is line him up on RDE in passing downs and let Carter stand-up and rush from the LB spot. You could then move Carter around a bit to exploit numbers' advantages, and Rice would command attention of a OT and a Chip Blocker, thus limiting the effectiveness of the outlet guy in the QBs progressions. Think about how much more effective our interior linemen would be if there was a DE who commanded a Double team?

Too much talent is a good problem to have, and one I'd much rather manage then not enough talent.

[PyroGenic]

I don't care who Rice would replace as he has shown throughout his career he can consistently apply pressure, those already on our supposed fully stocked DL have not.

Well it adds to the risk involved. If Rice is a bust and we put him in Carter's spot we effectively killed our hopes for the position for 2 consecutive years (and probably a third since we never draft for the line). The thinking behind it is that Carter was getting used to the position again but then we all of a sudden make him switch sides and take away some of his progression (and don't think that's retarded, not everybody is ambidextrous). Doing that coupled with having Rice bust on the left side would mean that we're just hindering progress.

[frankez99]

Go ahead and ask Chris Samuels if Simeon Rice is still an effective pass rusher....

You would figure that a team that set the NFL record in a non-strike season for the LOWEST SACK total in history would do something to upgrade the area where 90% (yes, a made up statistic) of your sacks come from; the front 4/5.

Even if he doesn't get to the qb, he is extremely disruptive and would at least make the qb force throws or make poor decisions every now and then. Aside from the last 4 games where Andre Carter "decided" to play, all last season the opposing qb's set up picnic blankets, ate lunch, drank 2 glasses of wine, packed away their picnic gear, and then completed their passes (and that is not an exaggeration, honest!).

It is hard to side with Gibbs and Co. with this logic....I don't get it.

That being said, I do believe that last season was a defensive aberration and that this season they will be better....but not by too much at this rate.

[skinsfan36]

id love for us to sign rice but if he wants a pretty penny lock up cooley then sign rice

[esmith1790]

i think there is plenty record of what type a player is after he has been in the league as long as rice has...



Exactly the reason they are gona get him.. That way at the end of the year, if the "DL is FINE" doesnt go as planned ( as almost everyone here predicts) they can say he was a cancer in the locker room and thus caused the DL problems, ( thus saving face to the fans)

[esmith1790]

I agree we aren't talking Julius Peppers, or hell a young Rice. My problem goes back to the failure to address the D line at all.

To say flat out, we aren't interested is Puzzling to anyone who understands the basic tenets of NFL defense. He can't possibly be worse than Wynn/Daniels.

Maybe it has come down to the part of being a flip/flopper.

maybe they are blinded about admitting something and not wanting to change their stance as to look bad.

Why come out now and say the DL is needing of an upgrade and get Rice. When just a little time back the DL is fine attitude.

Sometimes people just go down with the ship becuase they dont want to be seen as double minded.

They rode that horse for so long they might have to keep riding it until the end. NO sense to change horses mid stride.

( i think i got all of the cliches listed):lol1:

[HAWGZHEAD]

This is pretty much the first time I have heard the Skins mentioned in this deal. Only names I have heard before is NY and Tenn. I guess they threw our name in to keep the tradition alive.

[dj_stouty]

I don't get that at all. I think he is very much involved in personnel on O and D. I think he allows GW to design the D, and they talk about the type of players that fit into what GW is trying to do, but I don't buy that Gibbs wouldn't know what kind of talent Rice is. If Gibbs doesn't think Rice works here (money, attitude, whatever), I truly believe that is a decision Gibbs has come to in his own mind (maybe with GW's help), but definitely in his own mind.

Oh, so adding Archuletta was a Gibbs' decision? :rolleyes:

So you think that Gibbs has evaluated the d-line and personally given it his stamp of approval? Or maybe, just maybe, GW has given Gibbs the impression that adding talent to other areas of the defense would be good enough?

[MONK_in_HOF]

Well it adds to the risk involved. If Rice is a bust and we put him in Carter's spot we effectively killed our hopes for the position for 2 consecutive years (and probably a third since we never draft for the line). The thinking behind it is that Carter was getting used to the position again but then we all of a sudden make him switch sides and take away some of his progression (and don't think that's retarded, not everybody is ambidextrous). Doing that coupled with having Rice bust on the left side would mean that we're just hindering progress.

I understand what you are saying and don't think the side of field perspective is crazy as different sides do make a difference. However despite what our coaches have said, I like many others think our DL is in terrible shape, especially when it comes to getting pressure. There is no doubt in my mind that IF Simeon Rice were to be healthy enough, then he would go a long way to improving the unit. I know that is a big IF to all of us that don't really know his status, but I don't really think there is much of a bust factor at all if he is healthy. Last year Rice had 2 sacks and 4 FF in 8 games and our entire D only had 12 TO the whole season.

As far as Carter goes, it wouldn't be ideal to shift him around the D, but I do think Rice and the double teams he often commands would free up a lot of space for Carter and others to work in. Also they could rotate on rushing downs w/ Carter taking more of that load, which could also help the undersized (relatively) Carter stay fresh.

So IF the Skins can bring Rice in to a reasonable contract, and are willing to take a risk on his health after their due diligence, I would certainly think that would be a risk worth taking. From my perspective what is 1 more injury risk at the chance of improving a deficient unit IF we don't kill our cap situation.
Its not like the Skins haven't been rolling the dice on staying healthy due to lack of depth at other positions. The OL has been 1 injury away from a disaster the past several years, as we unfortunately witnessed on a few occasions. The DL is terrible w/out Griffin, the secondary is dreadful without Springs and the pash rush that has been predominantly dormant since Charles Mann.

[Hr fan]

:sun:[To say flat out, we aren't interested is Puzzling to anyone who understands the basic tenets of NFL defense. He can't possibly be worse than Wynn/Daniels.

Very well said and if the price is right(Meaning not overpaying) Rice can not help I believe be a upgrade over Wynn and Daniels, and if we cut both we should save a few dollars or used those amounts to pay Rice and Cooley.[/QUOTE]

Rice plays the Carter DE, not the strong side Daniels position. We have invested a lot in Carter to provide PR, and couldn't take the cap hit of releasing him. Anyway Daniels/Wynn would have to stay or Rice would have to play a position he never has and learn to face blocking schemes (T and TE) he never has.

[Hr fan]

Assuming he cannot play LDE, then we do as Spence suggested, which is line him up on RDE in passing downs and let Carter stand-up and rush from the LB spot. You could then move Carter around a bit to exploit numbers' advantages, and Rice would command attention of a OT and a Chip Blocker, thus limiting the effectiveness of the outlet guy in the QBs progressions. Think about how much more effective our interior linemen would be if there was a DE who commanded a Double team?

Too much talent is a good problem to have, and one I'd much rather manage then not enough talent.

Then Daniels remains at LDE. How do you pay Rice? PS If Carter was an adequate rusher from the LB position SF would never had traded him.

[shally]

Then Daniels remains at LDE. How do you pay Rice? PS If Carter was an adequate rusher from the LB position SF would never had traded him.

WaPo again today said the skins are not interested in rice. strahan might be another matter

[Hr fan]

WaPo again today said the skins are not interested in rice. strahan might be another matter

Be still my heart. Plays the position of need and far better than current incumbent. But NYG would have to have a mental breakdown to a division rival (sob).

[dannyskins]

Rice plays the Carter DE, not the strong side Daniels position. We have invested a lot in Carter to provide PR, and couldn't take the cap hit of releasing him. Anyway Daniels/Wynn would have to stay or Rice would have to play a position he never has and learn to face blocking schemes (T and TE) he never has.[/QUOTE]

You're overrating or underestimating Rice's ability to switch to the other side, it is the DE position and the degree of difficulty can't be that much. How you came up with Carter being release I have no idea I was talking about Wynn and Daniels.

[Keino]

Then Daniels remains at LDE. How do you pay Rice? PS If Carter was an adequate rusher from the LB position SF would never had traded him.


You seem to be forgetting that our RDE was Daniels before we signed Carter. I see no reason why a superior player couldn't make a similar switch.

[shally]

Be still my heart. Plays the position of need and far better than current incumbent. But NYG would have to have a mental breakdown to a division rival (sob).


what choice did we have over where pierce signed ?

if they release strahan he will go where the money is and they cannot control him. if they trade him then, he can still say he wont report.

in the end, my guess is that they release him and i think that is what strahan is angling for

[shally]

You seem to be forgetting that our RDE was Daniels before we signed Carter. I see no reason why a superior player couldn't make a similar switch.

exactly. daniels has been able to move. and wynn plays inside some.
beleive me, they would all get plenty of reps..

[James F. Quinn]

what choice did we have over where pierce signed ?

if they release strahan he will go where the money is and they cannot control him. if they trade him then, he can still say he wont report.

in the end, my guess is that they release him and i think that is what strahan is angling for

Why would they release him? He's under contract to them, and if they simply take him at his word and report him as retired, or failure to report, or whatever catgory applies, they don't have to pay him, and he can't go anywhere else.

[garedskin]

We are 7 years too late signing Rice.
Snyder dropped the ball when he could have landed him for about the same contract(5yr 25m 5ms/b) he gave Bruce Smith in 2000.
Still Rice would still be good addition for us.
I hope we can land him.:Peace:

[shally]

Why would they release him? He's under contract to them, and if they simply take him at his word and report him as retired, or failure to report, or whatever catgory applies, they don't have to pay him, and he can't go anywhere else.

believe me, we havent heard the last of the jockeying for position.

i dont believe for a moment that he intends to retire. he wants his contract re done to pay him more than 4 mil this year. that is 180* from saying he is going to retire. this is all posturing and if it serves his interest to report, or to hold out, expect that is what he will do.

look at the difference between what jake plummer is doing to what strahan is doing. it will actually cost money that plummer will have to pay back if he fails to report. that is not what strahan will be saying.

i will take any action on a bet that says that strahan will retire. he simply doesnt appear to be in any position to do so given his divorce (unless he would prefer to be held in contempt for failure to make payments.. and no judge is going to look with sympathy upon someone who has retired to reduce his income to avoid alimony/support payments).
and his language has always been about getting a new contract for MORE money. that is not retirement talk.

so, in the end, do the giants want a disgruntled strahan back on their team ?
that much i cannot answer, but if they sign rice i will tell you that strahan's days as a giant are numbered

[James F. Quinn]

believe me, we havent heard the last of the jockeying for position.

i dont believe for a moment that he intends to retire. he wants his contract re done to pay him more than 4 mil this year. that is 180* from saying he is going to retire. this is all posturing and if it serves his interest to report, or to hold out, expect that is what he will do.

look at the difference between what jake plummer is doing to what strahan is doing. it will actually cost money that plummer will have to pay back if he fails to report. that is not what strahan will be saying.

i will take any action on a bet that says that strahan will retire. he simply doesnt appear to be in any position to do so given his divorce (unless he would prefer to be held in contempt for failure to make payments.. and no judge is going to look with sympathy upon someone who has retired to reduce his income to avoid alimony/support payments).
and his language has always been about getting a new contract for MORE money. that is not retirement talk.

so, in the end, do the giants want a disgruntled strahan back on their team ?
that much i cannot answer, but if they sign rice i will tell you that strahan's days as a giant are numbered

Ok, all good points. I have to wonder which is a better DE right now: Rice or Strachan. I've always considered Strachan as a better all-around DE, with Rice being more of a pressure/sack specialist.

The big mystery is how much do either of these guys have left? Is either of them still an every down DE? I have no clue.

[Keino]

The answer to that mystery is not really all that mysterious....They have more left in the tank than anyone currently occupying the spot ever had.

[shally]

The answer to that mystery is not really all that mysterious....They have more left in the tank than anyone currently occupying the spot ever had.

amen. way to cut through the fog, sean...

if it is about talent and productivity, either of these guys are better than what we have, or have had for some time now.

but, i think there is more at work here than that. issues of locker room presence, ego, etc...

[Keino]

amen. way to cut through the fog, sean...

if it is about talent and productivity, either of these guys are better than what we have, or have had for some time now.

but, i think there is more at work here than that. issues of locker room presence, ego, etc...

Thats fine Shal. Again, my issue is "taking a good Look" vs Flat out refusal.

[CNYSkinFan]

I would sign Strahan and move Carter to RDE. Carter would be better as a speed rusher there since most LT are not the slobberknockers RT are and won't get blown off the ball on run plays as much. Strahan is still easily one of the top 5 LEs in football, I would take him, his gap tooth, and his gay lover anyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

[Keino]

I would sign Strahan and move Carter to RDE. Carter would be better as a speed rusher there since most LT are not the slobberknockers RT are and won't get blown off the ball on run plays as much. Strahan is still easily one of the top 5 LEs in football, I would take him, his gap tooth, and his gay lover anyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

Carter already plays RDE.

[CNYSkinFan]

Carter already plays RDE.
Oooops brain fart, I would still sign him though

[Keino]

The website does it from the Offense perspective. He plays RDE and matches up against the LT.

[BurgundyNGold]

If I were Danny, I'd send Strahan a big bunch of flowers. Just so that he doesn't feel completely unwanted throughout this whole ordeal, lol.

[shally]

If I were Danny, I'd send Strahan a big bunch of flowers. Just so that he doesn't feel completely unwanted throughout this whole ordeal, lol.


forget that. cash is always appreciated...:giantsuk:

and having redskin 1 circling over giant stadium would be a nice touch as well...LOL

[lonewate44]

I hope we don't sign either, and here is why. To get either 1 will cost the skins a good chuck of money no doubt. That would be tieing up cash that could be better spent on current players like Cooley and taylor. "id rather keep either or both of them then give thier money to either of those old injury problem guys. By signing either one would be a sign that we are still looking for stop gap players. That's what they would be, and they would be expensive ones at that. Lets look to actually take care of our own first for a change.
We have gone donw this road way too many times to continue doing this. It would be almost a given, give one of them the big money, and he will miss half the year this year, and next year as well. In year 3 we would cut them, and have a big chunk of dead cap space. No thanks. There is no way either would sign a low contract, and at this point of their career with their injuries, that is all they should expect.

For those saying Mikey needs the money, Please no he doesn't. His wife got 15 MIl, half of his money, meaning he still has 15 mil to live on, and he could live the rest of his life on that money. He is greedy, and proven to be a loud moth cancer when theings aren't going right, the skins don't need that in the locker room.

I don't think NY will release him anyway. They will put him on the retired/not report list and that will be that. They are taking a hard line stacne with him, and it is good to see owners actually stand up to these guys that think they are underpaid, even when they get 20Million just to sign their name.

[akhhorus]

I hope we don't sign either, and here is why. To get either 1 will cost the skins a good chuck of money no doubt. That would be tieing up cash that could be better spent on current players like Cooley and taylor. "id rather keep either or both of them then give thier money to either of those old injury problem guys. By signing either one would be a sign that we are still looking for stop gap players. That's what they would be, and they would be expensive ones at that. Lets look to actually take care of our own first for a change.
We have gone donw this road way too many times to continue doing this. It would be almost a given, give one of them the big money, and he will miss half the year this year, and next year as well. In year 3 we would cut them, and have a big chunk of dead cap space. No thanks. There is no way either would sign a low contract, and at this point of their career with their injuries, that is all they should expect.

Cooley's not going anywhere and any extension he signs won't cost much for the first year. The skins can tag him if he doesn't resign before the offseason. Taylor isn't going anywhere either. He's under contract for a few more years. And we need Dline help badly. And unless we gave him 20 million in signing bonus(which we wouldnt), he wouldn't cost that much in dead cap money in a couple years.

For those saying Mikey needs the money, Please no he doesn't. His wife got 15 MIl, half of his money, meaning he still has 15 mil to live on, and he could live the rest of his life on that money. He is greedy, and proven to be a loud moth cancer when theings aren't going right, the skins don't need that in the locker room.

And a great pass rusher, which we need. And no, his wife didn't get half his cash right now, she got a set amount based on how much he made during their marriage.

I don't think NY will release him anyway. They will put him on the retired/not report list and that will be that. They are taking a hard line stacne with him, and it is good to see owners actually stand up to these guys that think they are underpaid, even when they get 20Million just to sign their name.

Strahan, one of the truly great DEs in the NFL history, got 6 million in signing bonus in his extension in 2002. Which even for the time was little.

[Meatsnack]

I am all for getting any D-line help at all at this point: Strahan, Rice, Clinton Portis' mom, whomever. I don't think that we will pursue Rice, not because he is a problem or hurt (I think that is spin from the Buc's FO) but because I don't think we can absorb two DE's who are a run liability. I don't think Blache's blood pressure can take it.

Strahan is a beast run or pass and he could be a possibility if the Giants are dumbass enough to run him out of town. I don't see even Coughlin being that stupid, though. He could just drop-trou and moon his boss if we wanted to commit career suicide. The kid from BC isn't ready to replace Strahan.

[shally]

I am all for getting any D-line help at all at this point: Strahan, Rice, Clinton Portis' mom, whomever. I don't think that we will pursue Rice, not because he is a problem or hurt (I think that is spin from the Buc's FO) but because I don't think we can absorb two DE's who are a run liability. I don't think Blache's blood pressure can take it.

Strahan is a beast run or pass and he could be a possibility if the Giants are dumbass enough to run him out of town. I don't see even Coughlin being that stupid, though. He could just drop-trou and moon his boss if we wanted to commit career suicide. The kid from BC isn't ready to replace Strahan.

not coughlin.. this is reese and the front office showing off their "muscle"

[BigCountry]

I am all for getting any D-line help at all at this point: Strahan, Rice, Clinton Portis' mom, whomever. I don't think that we will pursue Rice, not because he is a problem or hurt (I think that is spin from the Buc's FO) but because I don't think we can absorb two DE's who are a run liability. I don't think Blache's blood pressure can take it.

Strahan is a beast run or pass and he could be a possibility if the Giants are dumbass enough to run him out of town. I don't see even Coughlin being that stupid, though. He could just drop-trou and moon his boss if we wanted to commit career suicide. The kid from BC isn't ready to replace Strahan.

This is a system that uses alot of rotation so I don't think that'd be too big of a problem.

[redwolf1218]

prior to this, the only thing i had read about Rice was that the Redskins had NO interest:

Team management received sub-par internal scouting reports on free agent end Simeon Rice, sources said, and have made no contact with the former Pro Bowler. Nor are they expected to. Management did instruct scouts and coaches to compile offseason reports on defensive end Michael Strahan over the winter, however.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/01/AR2007080102305.html

[SpicyMcHaggis]

prior to this, the only thing i had read about Rice was that the Redskins had NO interest:

Team management received sub-par internal scouting reports on free agent end Simeon Rice, sources said, and have made no contact with the former Pro Bowler. Nor are they expected to. Management did instruct scouts and coaches to compile offseason reports on defensive end Michael Strahan over the winter, however.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/01/AR2007080102305.html
Are those the same scouts that brought us Brandon Loyd, Adam Archuleta, T.J. Duckett, Carlos Rogers, Warrick Holdman, etc. etc. etc.?

[Hr fan]

Rice plays the Carter DE, not the strong side Daniels position. We have invested a lot in Carter to provide PR, and couldn't take the cap hit of releasing him. Anyway Daniels/Wynn would have to stay or Rice would have to play a position he never has and learn to face blocking schemes (T and TE) he never has.

You're overrating or underestimating Rice's ability to switch to the other side, it is the DE position and the degree of difficulty can't be that much. How you came up with Carter being release I have no idea I was talking about Wynn and Daniels.[/QUOTE]

As noted, the Daniels position is a run stop first, then PR. The DE on that side usually has a TE chipping on him and the RDT tackle engaging him, so power moves/stunts are far more common. DE on the other side ala Rice is PR first, run stop second, usually facing a single blocker so speed is the asset of greatest value. Add in the fact that Rice is a poor run stopper against a single blocker. IMHO the difference IS that much. Therefore if you aren't replacing Daniels/Wynn, and the salary for Rice has to come from somewhere, presumably the DE position on the side he would occupy. BTW, welcome aboard.:bsmile:

[Hr fan]

Maybe it has come down to the part of being a flip/flopper.

maybe they are blinded about admitting something and not wanting to change their stance as to look bad.

Why come out now and say the DL is needing of an upgrade and get Rice. When just a little time back the DL is fine attitude.

Sometimes people just go down with the ship becuase they dont want to be seen as double minded.

They rode that horse for so long they might have to keep riding it until the end. NO sense to change horses mid stride.

( i think i got all of the cliches listed):lol1:

How about we will always look to upgrade our team? (this differs from above by NOT admitting they were wrong in the first place, they are NOT addressing a need, they are only incrementally improving PR/depth)

[CNYSkinFan]

Are those the same scouts that brought us Brandon Loyd, Adam Archuleta, T.J. Duckett, Carlos Rogers, Warrick Holdman, etc. etc. etc.?
yep now Rice is guaranteed to sing with someone else and become a monster again....thank you Vinny!!!

[Carmelo]

Why are my page countes different than everyone else's?

That thread has 4 pages according to my set-up. Similarly, the Dline Sucks thread (Ranked last by Scouts Inc.) I've seen people say 40 pages, but I show 16 pages.

It must be a User CP issue and I must have my settings so that there are a bunch of posts per page, which IMO makes browsing the site easier.

Anyways, My thoughts are all over that thread, giving the local take on the Rice release, and specifically my opinion on adding him to the Skins. The last few pages are probably most relevant to this thread.
I have my profile setup to show more post in a page than normal. I believe most people have 10 or 20 post shown per page and I have 40 I think. Maybe you have it the same.

[Keino]

I have my profile setup to show more post in a page than normal. I believe most people have 10 or 20 post shown per page and I have 40 I think. Maybe you have it the same.

Yep. Makes browsing much easier IMO, because it is less pages to sift through

[playboy1972]

I would bring in any player that doesn't cost any draft picks. We didn't do much in the draft with the position but he couldn't hurt.

[redskinz#1fan]

I still say it's worth a look if he doesn't cost us much....and that includes Strahan!