Illegal Immigrant activist to be deported

[RedskinsDave]

Can anyone else find what's wrong in this quote? :rpunch:

From the time I took sanctuary the possibility has existed that they arrest me in the place and time they want," she said in Spanish. "I only have two choices. I either go to my country, Mexico, or stay and keep fighting. I decided to stay and fight."

Thanks for playing. See you on the other side, illegal.

http://cbs2.com/local/local_story_231191810.html

[BurgundyNGold]

Thank Bob I [won't] have to drive behind her anymore, lol.

[edit]

[Spence]

It's hard to have much sympathy for this woman, but her 8-year-old son is a different matter. He's an American citizen and now his mother will be living in a different country. Perhaps the best thing for the family would be for the boy to go with his mother, but I wonder if he has any experience with Mexico. The presence of a child makes this issue more complicated for me.

[RedskinsDave]

It's hard to have much sympathy for this woman, but her 8-year-old son is a different matter. He's an American citizen and now his mother will be living in a different country. Perhaps the best thing for the family would be for the boy to go with his mother, but I wonder if he has any experience with Mexico. The presence of a child makes this issue more complicated for me.

Well she was hiding from the authorities in a church for a year so I'm sure she can parent from Mexico. What experience would the kid need? He certainly speaks spanish.

[Keino]

Well she was hiding from the authorities in a church for a year so I'm sure she can parent from Mexico. What experience would the kid need? He certainly speaks spanish.

The cultural differences go beyond the language my friend. Kids born of illegals on American soil has always been the tricky part of this equation for me as well. By law they are Citizens.

[RedskinsDave]

The cultural differences go beyond the language my friend. Kids born of illegals on American soil has always been the tricky part of this equation for me as well. By law they are Citizens.

Then he can come back when he's 18.

[Keino]

Then he can come back when he's 18.

LOL. True enough.

[remaxjon]

It's hard to have much sympathy for this woman, but her 8-year-old son is a different matter. He's an American citizen and now his mother will be living in a different country. Perhaps the best thing for the family would be for the boy to go with his mother, but I wonder if he has any experience with Mexico. The presence of a child makes this issue more complicated for me.

another reason to end birth right citizenship

[BurgundyNGold]

Well she was hiding from the authorities in a church for a year so I'm sure she can parent from Mexico. What experience would the kid need? He certainly speaks spanish.
They should try the church officials for aiding and abetting. It's not like she's Anne Frank and the Gestapo would send her to Aushwicz if they found her.

[Spence]

Well she was hiding from the authorities in a church for a year so I'm sure she can parent from Mexico. What experience would the kid need? He certainly speaks spanish.Sure, but his friends must be in the U.S. Who knows, maybe he's never been to Mexico. Maybe he's been 20 times. I have no idea. But the kid is an American citizen, there's no denying that.

[Spence]

They should try the church officials for aiding and abetting. It's not like she's Anne Frank and the Gestapo would send her to Aushwicz if they found her.Catholic officials have indicated that they will not obey any U.S. laws requiring them to turn in illegal immigrants. Prosecuting church officials for such a thing would be politically problematic. It's one thing to go after a priest for touching an altar boy, quite another to go after a priest for feeding and housing a dirt-poor illegal immigrant. Not too many public officials are keen to take on the Catholic church.

[Keino]

another reason to end birth right citizenship

Good luck amending the Constitution to end birth-right citizenship.

[Keino]

They should try the church officials for aiding and abetting. It's not like she's Anne Frank and the Gestapo would send her to Aushwicz if they found her.

I think we first have to go after companies who are paying illegal immigrants to work for them. The IRS has plenty of info, because these companies have been paying taxes on their migrant workers.

I do agree with you in theory though, the Church and its representatives should have to obey the law.

[Spence]

another reason to end birth right citizenshipYou want to grandfather in all existing U.S. citizens or should we make everyone take a test and keep a clean criminal record for 5-14 years? I'm thinking a pretty hefty percentage of American citizens would fail a test about their own country.

[Keino]

You want to grandfather in all existing U.S. citizens or should we make everyone take a test and keep a clean criminal record for 5-14 years? I'm thinking a pretty hefty percentage of American citizens would fail a test about their own country.


Man...You ain't lying there. There is this show on BET calle "We got to do Better" hosted by Cholly Murphy. They were on the streets of DC asking people the 3 Branches of Government.......Man my DC people looked bad there.

[fent]

You want to grandfather in all existing U.S. citizens or should we make everyone take a test and keep a clean criminal record for 5-14 years? I'm thinking a pretty hefty percentage of American citizens would fail a test about their own country.

just watch Leno's Jay Walking and i think you'll find your passing percentage will sit around 15% at the absolute highest.

[BurgundyNGold]

I think we first have to go after companies who are paying illegal immigrants to work for them. The IRS has plenty of info, because these companies have been paying taxes on their migrant workers.

I do agree with you in theory though, the Church and its representatives should have to obey the law.
The go after them too. It's not healthy to feed a false economy.

[shally]

Can anyone else find what's wrong in this quote? :rpunch:



Thanks for playing. See you on the other side, illegal.

http://cbs2.com/local/local_story_231191810.html

ship her *** home....

[lakewinola]

Good luck amending the Constitution to end birth-right citizenship.

Exactly

[lakewinola]

The go after them too. It's not healthy to feed a false economy.

Can you tell me what a false economy is, because I have never heard that before, and I am in the business.

[BurgundyNGold]

Can you tell me what a false economy is, because I have never heard that before, and I am in the business.
You are in the business of economy? What, do you work at Dollar Rent-a-Car, lol?

I used the adjective "false" to describe paying people under the table (without taxes being paid either by the individual or the employer) for far less than the prevailing rate would be if they had to follow the rules. It makes for an artificially deflated pay scale for services. That's why we have a minimum wage; skirting that law with illegals is rampant.

Right now, we're paying less for food, services, car washes, whatever strictly because people aren't following the rules. Those prices are technically "false" as they do account for what it would truly take to produce said good or service if everyone followed the rules. Since they permeate most segments of our economy, I think that every sector has some measure of falsehood applied to it in the way of real costs.

[Keino]

You are in the business of economy? What, do you work at Dollar Rent-a-Car, lol?

I used the adjective "false" to describe paying people under the table (without taxes being paid either by the individual or the employer) for far less than the prevailing rate would be if they had to follow the rules. It makes for an artificially deflated pay scale for services. That's why we have a minimum wage; skirting that law with illegals is rampant.

Right now, we're paying less for food, services, car washes, whatever strictly because people aren't following the rules. Those prices are technically "false" as they do account for what it would truly take to produce said good or service if everyone followed the rules. Since they permeate most segments of our economy, I think that every sector has some measure of falsehood applied to it in the way of real costs.

Thanks for the explanation. That is essentially how I viewed the term when you used it. Illegal labor has kept costs of certain goods and services (Produce and Unskilled labor mostly) artificially low. I think this plays into why little to nothing has been done about it. At the same time, an illegal can argue that they contribute to the economy in just this fashion and therefore the sense of entitlement to services (Hospitals/Schools) is justified.

It's a tricky issue.

[BurgundyNGold]

Thanks for the explanation. That is essentially how I viewed the term when you used it. Illegal labor has kept costs of certain goods and services (Produce and Unskilled labor mostly) artificially low. I think this plays into why little to nothing has been done about it. At the same time, an illegal can argue that they contribute to the economy in just this fashion and therefore the sense of entitlement to services (Hospitals/Schools) is justified.

It's a tricky issue.
They contribute when they pay sales tax when they buy goods or services with the money they make, but they're not contributing at the same rate as someone who is actually paying their federal and state taxes, as well as their social security and medicare contributions. When an illegal doesn't collect a real paycheck, it's not just the taxes that he would pay that is getting missed. The employer has a forumulated amount to pay as a result of wages taxes and Social Security trust fund amounts, and Medicare, as well.

Yeah, I have to think that's a bunk argument about the hospitals/schools/etc. Unless the state sales tax (some states don't even have a sales tax) covers education, health care, all roads, all social services, etc. that's just flat out wrong. Most of those things from personal income taxes, which, as we both noted, are not paid by illegals in most cases.

And when they're here 8 years, don't learn to speak English and refer to Mexico as "my country", I'm especially pleased to see them leave.

[Spence]

Going after the illegal immigrants themselves is pointless. One may find it emotionally satisfying, but it's the worst example of whack-a-mole I can think of. Kick out an illegal immigrant? Congrats -- there are only 25 waiting to take his/her place.

When U.S. government agencies start cooperating to share information about employers and who they are hiring, then things might get serious. Going after the companies who employ illegal labor is the only way to have any chance at all of solving the problem. If you kick out an illegal, he'll just cross the border again the next day. And you can't fine them 'cause they don't have any money. [If they had money they'd stay in their own countries.] The businesses, on the other hand, often have VERY deep pockets that the government can target and very few of them can just disappear overnight and re-appear somewhere else.

Whenever you hear a politico talking about getting serious against illegal immigration, wait to see if he mentions going after the employers. If he doesn't, you know he/she isn't serious and you can safely ignore this person on this issue.

[akhhorus]

Going after the illegal immigrants themselves is pointless. One may find it emotionally satisfying, but it's the worst example of whack-a-mole I can think of. Kick out an illegal immigrant? Congrats -- there are only 25 waiting to take his/her place.

When U.S. government agencies start cooperating to share information about employers and who they are hiring, then things might get serious. Going after the companies who employ illegal labor is the only way to have any chance at all of solving the problem. If you kick out an illegal, he'll just cross the border again the next day. And you can't fine them 'cause they don't have any money. [If they had money they'd stay in their own countries.] The businesses, on the other hand, often have VERY deep pockets that the government can target and very few of them can just disappear overnight and re-appear somewhere else.

Whenever you hear a politico talking about getting serious against illegal immigration, wait to see if he mentions going after the employers. If he doesn't, you know he/she isn't serious and you can safely ignore this person on this issue.

True, but Lou Dobbs' chipper-shredder isn't a good solution either lol

[Keino]

They contribute when they pay sales tax when they buy goods or services with the money they make, but they're not contributing at the same rate as someone who is actually paying their federal and state taxes, as well as their social security and medicare contributions. When an illegal doesn't collect a real paycheck, it's not just the taxes that he would pay that is getting missed. The employer has a forumulated amount to pay as a result of wages taxes and Social Security trust fund amounts, and Medicare, as well.

Yeah, I have to think that's a bunk argument about the hospitals/schools/etc. Unless the state sales tax (some states don't even have a sales tax) covers education, health care, all roads, all social services, etc. that's just flat out wrong. Most of those things from personal income taxes, which, as we both noted, are not paid by illegals in most cases.

And when they're here 8 years, don't learn to speak English and refer to Mexico as "my country", I'm especially pleased to see them leave.

Well Florida, Texas, Tennessee are states that do not collect Income taxes on the state level. Govt. Goods and services in Florida come from 3 sources:

Tourism, Property Taxes and Sales Taxes. Factoring in keeping down costs and I am not sure the argument is so bunk in these states, but I get your point for sure.

[BurgundyNGold]

Going after the illegal immigrants themselves is pointless. One may find it emotionally satisfying, but it's the worst example of whack-a-mole I can think of. Kick out an illegal immigrant? Congrats -- there are only 25 waiting to take his/her place.

When U.S. government agencies start cooperating to share information about employers and who they are hiring, then things might get serious. Going after the companies who employ illegal labor is the only way to have any chance at all of solving the problem. If you kick out an illegal, he'll just cross the border again the next day. And you can't fine them 'cause they don't have any money. [If they had money they'd stay in their own countries.] The businesses, on the other hand, often have VERY deep pockets that the government can target and very few of them can just disappear overnight and re-appear somewhere else.

Whenever you hear a politico talking about getting serious against illegal immigration, wait to see if he mentions going after the employers. If he doesn't, you know he/she isn't serious and you can safely ignore this person on this issue.
Good points, all. But nobody wants to do it because nobody wants to be seen as mean spirited or anti-business.

[Spence]

Those horrific murders in Newark appear to have spurred some people to action. Tom Tancredo and Mitt Romney [Republicans running for Prez] are using the Newark murders to attack Rudy Giuliani's extremely permissive attitude/policies toward illegal immigrants when he was Mayor of NYC. In fact, Romney's got an ad on TV in Iowa right now attacking Giuliani on this very issue. Looks like the Newark murderers are going to be the Willy Horton of 2008.

A study was done earlier this year by a pro-immigrant group showing that immigrants do not raise the crime rate in the U.S. In fact, the study indicates that immigrants, both legal and illegal, are among the least likely to be incarcerated for law-breaking in the U.S. [Of course, this sets aside the original law-breaking of entering the country legally.] Some of the findings of the study (http://www.azstarnet.com/news/171109) are very interesting:The incarceration rate of U.S.- born men 18 to 39 years old in 2000 was 3.5 percent — five times higher than the incarceration rate of their immigrant counterparts, the study found.
The report — which analyzed data from the U.S. Census Bureau, police records and other sources — also shows that a large increase in illegal immigrants has not resulted in a rise in crime. Since 1994, violent crime in the United States has declined 34 percent, and property crime has fallen 26 percent. At the same time, the illegal immigrant population has doubled to around 12 million.

The study also details a "paradox of assimilation" in which second- and third-generation immigrants have higher crime rates than those who first come to the United States.

For example, foreign-born Mexican men had an incarceration rate of 0.7 percent in 2000, more than eight times lower than the 5.9 percent rate of U.S.-born males of Mexican descent.

The study concludes that the children and grandchildren of many immigrants become subject to economic and social forces, such as higher rates of family disintegration and drug and alcohol addiction, that increase the likelihood of criminal behavior.The story quotes a spokesman for an anti-immigrant group saying that insufficient data exists to render a judgment on this subject.

In any case, it appears there is no evidence to suggest that immigrants, legal or otherwise, are more likely to commit crimes once they are in the U.S. There are, of course, very defensible arguments to be made against illegal immigration that have nothing to do with crime rates. I bring it up only because it appears some politicians intend to make an issue of it going into an election year.

[BurgundyNGold]

Those horrific murders in Newark appear to have spurred some people to action. Tom Tancredo and Mitt Romney [Republicans running for Prez] are using the Newark murders to attack Rudy Giuliani's extremely permissive attitude/policies toward illegal immigrants when he was Mayor of NYC. In fact, Romney's got an ad on TV in Iowa right now attacking Giuliani on this very issue. Looks like the Newark murderers are going to be the Willy Horton of 2008.

A study was done earlier this year by a pro-immigrant group showing that immigrants do not raise the crime rate in the U.S. In fact, the study indicates that immigrants, both legal and illegal, are among the least likely to be incarcerated for law-breaking in the U.S. [Of course, this sets aside the original law-breaking of entering the country legally.] Some of the findings of the study (http://www.azstarnet.com/news/171109) are very interesting:The story quotes a spokesman for an anti-immigrant group saying that insufficient data exists to render a judgment on this subject.

In any case, it appears there is no evidence to suggest that immigrants, legal or otherwise, are more likely to commit crimes once they are in the U.S. There are, of course, very defensible arguments to be made against illegal immigration that have nothing to do with crime rates. I bring it up only because it appears some politicians intend to make an issue of it going into an election year.
I don't think that crime is the top reason to address illegal immigration, but I'm inclined to think that the explosive growth of MS13 has at least something to do with it.

[shally]

They contribute when they pay sales tax when they buy goods or services with the money they make, but they're not contributing at the same rate as someone who is actually paying their federal and state taxes, as well as their social security and medicare contributions. When an illegal doesn't collect a real paycheck, it's not just the taxes that he would pay that is getting missed. The employer has a forumulated amount to pay as a result of wages taxes and Social Security trust fund amounts, and Medicare, as well.

Yeah, I have to think that's a bunk argument about the hospitals/schools/etc. Unless the state sales tax (some states don't even have a sales tax) covers education, health care, all roads, all social services, etc. that's just flat out wrong. Most of those things from personal income taxes, which, as we both noted, are not paid by illegals in most cases.

And when they're here 8 years, don't learn to speak English and refer to Mexico as "my country", I'm especially pleased to see them leave.

i dont know about the rest of the country, but around the borders of texas, new mexico and arizona, a lot of hospitals are going broke providing un-compensated obstetrical and emergency room care to the illegals.. it is mandated by the feds and uncompensated in any way by the state or fed
governments.. tremendous burden upon the smaller hospitals..

[RedskinsDave]

A study was done earlier this year by a pro-immigrant group


And it was favorable? How could that be? I wonder how all those cars not far from me all got those MS-13 markings. They must all be citizens like the drunks hanging around the 7-11. Glad we cleared that up.

[Spence]

And it was favorable? How could that be? I wonder how all those cars not far from me all got those MS-13 markings. They must all be citizens like the drunks hanging around the 7-11. Glad we cleared that up.It could be that the pro-immigrant group fudged the numbers. Clearly, that's what you believe, though I'm sure didn't read the study or the story about the study. It could be that the group didn't fudge the numbers, but still got it wrong. It could be that their study is quite accurate. I can't say. Neither can you. I can ask this question, though:

You have a study indicating that immigrants increase the crime rate?