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Patrick
08-27-2007, 10:08 AM
Well we are three preseason games in and there appears to be vast improvement over last year ….
BUT this is preseason and all things aren’t what they appear.
Yes Fletcher is a major upgrade to the MLB position and Landry is the real deal. The CB area is solid as long as Springs is healthy ……… SO my question to the hR faithful:
Have we really made improvement OR do you think our lack of pass rush and D-line pressure will catch-up to us????

For me my concern is that many offensives will be able to adjust to our scheme. I had to raise an eyebrow when the McNair and company drove for a TD.

BurgundyNGold
08-27-2007, 10:15 AM
Well we are three preseason games in and there appears to be vast improvement over last year ….
BUT this is preseason and all things aren’t what they appear.
Yes Fletcher is a major upgrade to the MLB position and Landry is the real deal. The CB area is solid as long as Springs is healthy ……… SO my question to the hR faithful:
Have we really made improvement OR do you think our lack of pass rush and D-line pressure will catch-up to us????

For me my concern is that many offensives will be able to adjust to our scheme. I had to raise an eyebrow when the McNair and company drove for a TD.
We've looked a lot more aggressive. One on one tackling is much better. We should be better this year.

However, two things that stand out:

1) Only one (1) sack in the better part of 3 games.

2) Only two (2) turnovers generated in the better part of 3 games with zero (0) coming from the first team defense.

If we don't fix these two things, which have been carried over from last year, they will ultimately undermine the defense and betray the entire team.

dj_stouty
08-27-2007, 10:15 AM
Well we are three preseason games in and there appears to be vast improvement over last year ….
BUT this is preseason and all things aren’t what they appear.
Yes Fletcher is a major upgrade to the MLB position and Landry is the real deal. The CB area is solid as long as Springs is healthy ……… SO my question to the hR faithful:
Have we really made improvement OR do you think our lack of pass rush and D-line pressure will catch-up to us????

For me my concern is that many offensives will be able to adjust to our scheme. I had to raise an eyebrow when the McNair and company drove for a TD.

I think the defense overall is better than '06...but lets see how they do against a non-vanilla defense.

Also, especially in the Raven's game, our defense benefited from the Raven's multiple penalties. Every series seemed to start off with false start or illegal formation, thus giving GW the enviable position of defending 1st and 20...along with subsequent 2nd/3rd and longs.

Oveall, I'm happy with our d-backs and LBs...but the jury is still out on that front four. They still seem spotty....

CNYSkinFan
08-27-2007, 10:16 AM
The only thing I am majorly worried about our defense is the lack of turnovers. Our offense needs some short fields and turnovers can help that.

The lack of pass rush from the front four is another concern. Even in 2004 when we had a great defense, theird and long was always trying because we would drop into a zone and generate no pass rush from the front four.

However our LBers are upgraded with Rocky and Fletcher over Marshall and Holdman. Our depth at corner is greater with Smoot< Macklin, and probably Butler or Eubanks over Wright, Rumpf and Jimoh. And of course our depth at Safety is much better with Landry, Prioleau & Stoutmire vs. Arch, Fox, & Doughty

I also think you cannot over emphasize the effect last year had on Gregg Williams. IN 2004 he came to DC hungry to prove those in Buffalo wrong, by 2006 he got a little arrogant with his insistence that ANYONE could play in his system. He will be hungry again in 2007 because he is coaching for his paycheck and reputation once again.

So I am cautiously optimistic.

shally
08-27-2007, 10:26 AM
high risk/ high reward all season.. good plays with more turnovers but we will give up some big plays also

bergiemoore
08-27-2007, 10:28 AM
Since I have the Skins defense as my DST in my fantasy league, I'm hoping that they do well.

I worry about the lack of sacks, but they have been able to disrupt quite a few plays, and have gotten to the QB a bit (albeit, not before he's gotten rid of the ball).

Remember what the defense looked like in last year's preseason games? They were downright atrocious, especially against a TE across the middle. I think that preseason does give an indication of how well they will do in the regular season. To have only allowed 1 TD in 2.7 games is not too shabby, IMHO.

I only see improvement coming for this squad as well. Montgomery has shown that the hype surrounding him at OTAs may have been justified. Golston has made great strides. Griffin is disrupting things like he was healthy, and even Salave'a has shown that he's not ready for retirement. Add to that the emergence of young talent like Wilson, Hickman and Alexander, and it appears that our DLine might not be the absolute worst in the NFL. I would still like to see Wilson play with the first team, just to get a decent indication of how well he plays against starters, and to make a case to the coaches for pushing Daniels/Wynn down the depth chart, or off the roster altogether.

Landry is a beast.

Our depth at CB is finally not a laughing stock.

Our LB corps is fast and aggressive. Our depth at LB is very decent, with a lot of good looking young talent.

Altogether, I'm pretty content. Now, let's see how they do against some of the better offenses, like the Eagles, Patriots, Jets, etc.

Keino
08-27-2007, 10:30 AM
I'll have a more firm opinion on September 10.

Right now I am happy with the way they have been flying to the ball, but I am concerned that the only way we seem to generate pressure is by blitzing. My Dad told me that Carter looked impressive in the Balt game, so hopefully is is poised to pick-up where he left off last season.

swheeler
08-27-2007, 10:30 AM
high risk/ high reward all season.. good plays with more turnovers but we will give up some big plays also

I'd like to agree with you, but I think we need to see some turnovers (that aren't caused by and against backups) for that to be realstic. I think you might be right, but I think the "high reward" is going to take the form of regularly stopping people for no gain or short losses.

MONK_in_HOF
08-27-2007, 10:31 AM
The D looks so much better. They look really fast and are swarming to the ball.
I think a lot of this has to do with LFB in the middle calling the shots, not to mention playing sideline to sideline. Also Mcintosh and Landry are huge upgrades in the speed department. I also love having Prioleau back at what look like full speed.

I am still worried about a lack of pass rush shown thus far by our 1st team DL. I think the Skins will continue to struggle forcing turnovers without a pass rush. But even without any improvement in the pass rush department, hopefully the DL will be able to continue to hold the line against the run as they have to this point.

shally
08-27-2007, 10:34 AM
I'd like to agree with you, but I think we need to see some turnovers (that aren't caused by and against backups) for that to be realstic. I think you might be right, but I think the "high reward" is going to take the form of regularly stopping people for no gain or short losses.


pressure causes turnovers. last year we didnt get to the qb in time and got burned repeatedly. this year will be different. we WILL get there in time-- some of the time. that will result in fumbles and opportunities for int's..

last year would have been average if only the guys had held onto possible int's.. rogers alone had 9 or 10 possibles in his hands.. he could not possibly be that bad again this year.

swheeler
08-27-2007, 10:38 AM
last year would have been average if only the guys had held onto possible int's.. rogers alone had 9 or 10 possibles in his hands.. he could not possibly be that bad again this year.

I sure hope not. Hopefully he's spent half of preseason praticing with the WRs

Hr fan
08-27-2007, 10:40 AM
We've looked a lot more aggressive. One on one tackling is much better. We should be better this year.

However, two things that stand out:

1) Only one (1) sack in the better part of 3 games.

2) Only one (1) turnover generated in the better part of 3 games with zero (0) coming from the first team defense.

If we don't fix these two things, which have been carried over from last year, they will ultimately undermine the defense and betray the entire team.

Couldn't agree more. A running game will have to carry us this year, and no short field situations makes scoring that much more difficult, makes 3 and outs more likely and makes the D stay on the field longer. Please, no 2nd half meltdowns.

Ibleedburgundy
08-27-2007, 10:46 AM
I think the defense has improved quite a bit. Fletcher looks like a good fit, McIntosh has great speed and Blades looks pretty good out there IMO.

Landry is the man. That guy alone will make a huge difference.

But, and this is a huge but, the D-line looks the same as 2006. Andre Carter is a pretty good pass rusher when the TE bumps into the LT. Philip Daniels does absolutely nothing out there. Montgomery looks like he has some fight in him. Kris Wilson looks OK so he might be this year's Demetric Evans-the guy who looks good when he plays but never gets on the field.

I think this will be a middle of the pack defense. Possibly ranked 18th or so.

Moe
08-27-2007, 10:52 AM
If they can prevent the Dolphins from scoring on their opening drive (something this D allowed in the first 7 games or so last year) then I'll be psyched.

To this point the tackling has been much improved, overall speed looks good and they are flying around the field which is also good. If they can up the turnovers and even manage to put some occassional points on the board then this team could look imposing.

hessy36
08-27-2007, 10:55 AM
Well we are three preseason games in and there appears to be vast improvement over last year ….
BUT this is preseason and all things aren’t what they appear.
Yes Fletcher is a major upgrade to the MLB position and Landry is the real deal. The CB area is solid as long as Springs is healthy ……… SO my question to the hR faithful:
Have we really made improvement OR do you think our lack of pass rush and D-line pressure will catch-up to us????

For me my concern is that many offensives will be able to adjust to our scheme. I had to raise an eyebrow when the McNair and company drove for a TD.

HUGE improvements! .. as far as our Pass rush goes.. we've haven't seen nothin yet. I think it will get much better.

It's part of the game to have the other team adjust to stop us, and it's part of our job to not let them. It's all a learning experience and hopefully we'll learn faster and play stronger than they do!!!

hessy36
08-27-2007, 10:57 AM
I sure hope not. Hopefully he's spent half of preseason praticing with the WRs

9 or 10? I think not. Rogers just has to stop getting beat all day long!

American Soldier
08-27-2007, 11:04 AM
Well we are three preseason games in and there appears to be vast improvement over last year ….
BUT this is preseason and all things aren’t what they appear.
Yes Fletcher is a major upgrade to the MLB position and Landry is the real deal. The CB area is solid as long as Springs is healthy ……… SO my question to the hR faithful:
Have we really made improvement OR do you think our lack of pass rush and D-line pressure will catch-up to us????

For me my concern is that many offensives will be able to adjust to our scheme. I had to raise an eyebrow when the McNair and company drove for a TD.

I have that game recorded. The reason for that drove is quite simple. The defense was exhausted. My concern is for our offense's numerous three and outs. I remember seeing Fletcher and Mac on the sideline breathing pretty heavy as they went over things with a coach. The problem was, it was third down and our offense didn't convert. This means that the defense had no time to recover. Along with that was the field temperature during that game. I would read too much into that drive. However, our O-coordinator has got to consider the total game. The Raven TD drive came after a three and out from our offense where that drive didn't last for more than a minute!

RedskinRyan
08-27-2007, 11:04 AM
Have we really made improvement OR do you think our lack of pass rush and D-line pressure will catch-up to us????


i think both. the tenacity of the defense can not be overlooked, even if its preseason. fletcher is making tackles. mcintosh is making plays. the secondary isnt getting beat deep. all very encouraging. and while the ravens did drive for a TD, we couldnt just expect the defense to have a shutout every week. it was only one touchdown as well. and once the regular season rolls around, with more aggressive play-calling, im not worried at all.

but the lack of pressure up front will cost us a few games

akhhorus
08-27-2007, 11:15 AM
Landry and Fletcher should make a major difference in the leadership and attitude of the defense(which shows how ***CENSORED BY SPENCE***ty the leadership was last year), but the 3rd down defense and turnovers are still major question marks for me. This team still needs a pass rusher in the worst way.

Patrick
08-27-2007, 11:18 AM
i think both. the tenacity of the defense can not be overlooked, even if its preseason. fletcher is making tackles. mcintosh is making plays. the secondary isnt getting beat deep. all very encouraging. and while the ravens did drive for a TD, we couldnt just expect the defense to have a shutout every week. it was only one touchdown as well. and once the regular season rolls around, with more aggressive play-calling, im not worried at all.

but the lack of pressure up front will cost us a few games

Understand about not pitching a shutout every week but in the Raven game, it wasn't our D that was stopping B-more so much as it was B-more stopping themselves.

AND you hit that nail on the head (as least for me) about our D-Line costing us a few games. I have the feeling the every game we lose, we will be pointing our finger to that as a major reason.

PennSkinsFan
08-27-2007, 11:24 AM
No one will argue the upgrades we have made. Fletcher will not only tackle, but be a true leader fo the defense, something they lacked last season. He is a tackling machine, gets the job done, and I expect he will be over 110-120 tackles. BUT, the biggie about Flecther is the leadership issue, which was a void last year. Laron Landry is special. you can see it and can feel it. He instantly upgardes the defense. Fropm what I have seen, Carlos Rogers appears to be back to form. Springs and Griffin's health are absolutely critical as always. But the signle biggest upgrade it the improved depth at CB. If Springs or Rogers goes down, we have Smoot, Mackling and probably Butler, all pretty solid veterans to stand in. Springs injury last year was the single defining moment for the defensive collapse.

The bad ....

Still no pass rush from the Line, muinus a time or two from Carter, which we will get. No push from the Line. Lack of turnovers.

Skinz4lyfe
08-27-2007, 11:36 AM
What I see from our defense so far is a change in attitude. They are once again flying to the ball. I did not see that last year. Sure we did upgrade the LBs and secondary. But IMO, its the attitude of the D that I need to see. But, my concern (along w/the majority of those posted before me) remains the lack of pressure on the QB from the front 4. It would be nice to see a stunt, swim move, or something like that from the front 4 every now and then.

redskinz#1fan
08-27-2007, 11:39 AM
I'll have a more firm opinion on September 10.

Right now I am happy with the way they have been flying to the ball, but I am concerned that the only way we seem to generate pressure is by blitzing. My Dad told me that Carter looked impressive in the Balt game, so hopefully is is poised to pick-up where he left off last season.

Our front four was applying some pretty decent pressure in the Ravens game. They were constantly in the face of the QB.

redskinz#1fan
08-27-2007, 12:01 PM
9 or 10? I think not. Rogers just has to stop getting beat all day long!

There was an article that reported that when the skins went back and looked at film, Rogers had 10 catchable interceptions hit him in the hands. That is what he's referring to.

He doesn't have to catch all 10 of them (that would be nice), but he needs to get at least half of those.

Rogers has back support now, cause Taylor can actually play safety v/s playing every other position on the field. Landry is a beast, and only looks to get better after each game.

SkinsfaninNJ
08-27-2007, 12:01 PM
I have that game recorded. The reason for that drove is quite simple. The defense was exhausted. My concern is for our offense's numerous three and outs. I remember seeing Fletcher and Mac on the sideline breathing pretty heavy as they went over things with a coach. The problem was, it was third down and our offense didn't convert. This means that the defense had no time to recover. Along with that was the field temperature during that game. I would read too much into that drive. However, our O-coordinator has got to consider the total game. The Raven TD drive came after a three and out from our offense where that drive didn't last for more than a minute!

I think you nailed a huge point. The longer the D is on the field, the more exposed they will become. If we are relying on people other than the front 4 to get pressure, that should only speed the fatigue as well. If our offense can generate drives, the D will be nasty this year.

ryflan47
08-27-2007, 12:08 PM
I think you nailed a huge point. The longer the D is on the field, the more exposed they will become. If we are relying on people other than the front 4 to get pressure, that should only speed the fatigue as well. If our offense can generate drives, the D will be nasty this year.

I feel the same way. This season hinges on our offense, and Campbell's consistency. (Like that hasn't been said 1000 times before). The D will thrive off of the offense's success. I do feel though, that the defense will progress as the season progresses. I mean, a regression from last year is near impossible.

LadyNRedskinsfan
08-27-2007, 12:10 PM
so far, the difference between this year's D and last year's, is night and day. they're swarming to the ball on the run, look more disciplined overall and are tackling right after short gains on passes. the DL did not change, so i think we all knew what we were getting into as far as sacks and pressure goes.. we've got guys with speed on defense that can get to the QB faster on blitzes, so i expect to see much of the same success we had in 04 and 05 this season. one thing i think we should expect, is a few mental mistakes from landry and rocky, as they are still young guys who are expected to make an impact but still have some learning to do. i just cant wait to see how we fare in a real game.

guinness4health
08-27-2007, 01:13 PM
9 or 10? I think not. Rogers just has to stop getting beat all day long!

try again.... After reviewing the film of every game during the offseason, the coaches determined that cornerback Carlos Rogers dropped 10 potential interceptions in which he got both hands on the ball. Linebacker Marcus Washington dropped half as many. source (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/03/AR2007080302283.html)

whitskins
08-27-2007, 01:24 PM
They'll be back at or near the top ten in yardage. It will be really tough to run on us again, so that will work in our favor and we'll keep teams off the scoreboard a lot better than last year.

Still, the ranking will probably be deceiving b/c the D won't take the ball away or change the game with any regularity. I think the D is good enough to keep us competitive in every game, but not good enough to win us games on their own. The offense will have to do their part. We will need to be totally balanced or we'll get exposed.

But it's going to be tough to move the ball on us. Griffin has barely played this preseason and we have yet to blitz with any real consistency or creativity. Springs and Marcus also missed the last game and Baltimore still only mounted one real drive. The Pittsburgh offense shredded Philly last night for nearly 300 yards in the first half and they could barely get a thing going against us.

I feel way better about the D compared to last year, but they'll still frustrate us with the pass rush, turnovers, and what not. I still think they have what it takes to get us to 9 or 10 wins if the offense does their part. I am hopeful.

ThomasTomasz
08-27-2007, 01:41 PM
This defense looks more energized than last season, and I think that a big part of this is Marcus Washington. Last season, he was under suspicion for steroid usage, meaning that he had to have tests done randomly throughout the season, with a positive test resulting in a four game ban. In addition, he had to attent weekly meetings in New York, which really sapped his energy.

In addition, he had to deal with a nagging hip injury the entire season, which contributed to a down year.

Washington has been the leader of this defense since he came aboard in 2004. Last year, we struggled because he struggled. This year, with a healthy and energized Washington, in addition to another leader in London Fletcher, I think our defense will once again be a top 10 unit in the league.

saviour
08-27-2007, 02:22 PM
I have that game recorded. The reason for that drove is quite simple. The defense was exhausted. My concern is for our offense's numerous three and outs. I remember seeing Fletcher and Mac on the sideline breathing pretty heavy as they went over things with a coach. The problem was, it was third down and our offense didn't convert. This means that the defense had no time to recover. Along with that was the field temperature during that game. I would read too much into that drive. However, our O-coordinator has got to consider the total game. The Raven TD drive came after a three and out from our offense where that drive didn't last for more than a minute!


This is a great point and not many people look at it this way. 3 and outs on offense kills your defense. Bill Parcells made mention of this to John Madden after the 1st dallas game. He stated that it appears that our offensive coordinator seems to not care about the defense by running gadget plays. That was a great catch about the LB's sucking wind on 3rd down because it brings to light how much better the offense has to be to help the defense succeed.

Also, Daniels creates zero pressure one on one so that means Carter will get doubled again and we will have to blitz our DB's and LB's which will leave huge holes in the defensive backfield when teams max protect against us. (As they have been doing for the past 2 seasons). We could only hope that a veteran pass rusher gets released soon. Hopefully we treat whoever it is like a washed up wide out and sign him.

dj_stouty
08-27-2007, 02:59 PM
While I'm still apprehensive that the defense will be able to continue this pace into the regular season against non-vanilla defenses...the one thing this squad has definitely improved on is its swagger. They back 7 are definitely playing with a lot of energy, and its rubbing off on the entire squad. The number #1 source of this energy is coming from big tackles/hits by Laron. The guy is elevating the play of everyone around him...and that is exciting to watch.

I saw no swagger and very little confidence last seaon. Its refreshing to see it back...

skinfan43
08-27-2007, 03:14 PM
This is a great point and not many people look at it this way. 3 and outs on offense kills your defense. Bill Parcells made mention of this to John Madden after the 1st dallas game. He stated that it appears that our offensive coordinator seems to not care about the defense by running gadget plays. That was a great catch about the LB's sucking wind on 3rd down because it brings to light how much better the offense has to be to help the defense succeed.

Also, Daniels creates zero pressure one on one so that means Carter will get doubled again and we will have to blitz our DB's and LB's which will leave huge holes in the defensive backfield when teams max protect against us. (As they have been doing for the past 2 seasons). We could only hope that a veteran pass rusher gets released soon. Hopefully we treat whoever it is like a washed up wide out and sign him.
A-FREAKIN-MEN!!:awesomewo:

NCskinsfanatic
08-27-2007, 03:14 PM
The numbers dont lie...we dont have many sacks, we've had a few injuries, the system has changed a bit but again we arent showing everything in preseason. I think the D will be much better but like every year it depends on health. The LB'ers are much quicker to the ball, when Washington's healthy I think he can apply pressure, Carter and Godfrey should help with that also once Randall's up to speed here. A healthy Griffin should also free up Golston to pressure the pocket while the secondary will cause opposing O's nightmares all year. Landry and Taylor lay the wood, the coverage from an improved Rogers, a healthy Springs and Fred Smoot look solid. Not to mention PP has looked pretty good as the third S. Pressure will come from the LBers and Secondary... just like it did in the first couple of seasons under GW. IMO that's because we now have the talent to execute it again. I think we should rank between 12th and 16th by seasons end.

Battle Cat
08-27-2007, 04:01 PM
If our offense puts up 18-21 points per game the defense will be fine and we will have qb pressure and sacks. If we have allot of 3 and outs and score no points like we did last year our defense will stink. We will be able to get allot more pressue if we are able to put the other team in obvious passing situations.

Brit'Skin
08-27-2007, 04:13 PM
Cautiously optimistic.

We have made big improvements to the secondary, linebackers and while we havn't done anything to the DL I still think the group will improve. As long as the front 4 can stop the run and occupy blockers enough to allow the LB's to make plays I think we will be ok. Not great but noway near as horrible as last year.

VegasSkinsFan
08-27-2007, 04:35 PM
Yeah but wouldnt it be great to also have a dline that can apply pressure. It would turn our defense intoa top-ranked defense. GO SKINS !!!!!!

Brit'Skin
08-27-2007, 04:53 PM
Yeah but wouldnt it be great to also have a dline that can apply pressure. It would turn our defense intoa top-ranked defense. GO SKINS !!!!!!

Definitely. The only one I can see getting any pressure is Carter but I think the different blitzes with the LB's (particularly Washington) and Landry/Taylor could work pretty well.

jaylen
08-27-2007, 04:58 PM
Well the one apparent thing to me is that we're able to get pressure on 3rd down when our speed rushers are in and when our backups are on the field with the young speed rushers.

Daniels can't get there at all anymore and teams are gonna come after us on 1st and 2nd down unless we mix things up more and put Wilson and others on the field on 1st and 2nd downs.

shally
08-27-2007, 04:59 PM
Definitely. The only one I can see getting any pressure is Carter but I think the different blitzes with the LB's (particularly Washington) and Landry/Taylor could work pretty well.

live by the blitz.. die by the blitz..

i am going to be very uncomfortable if the plan is to get pressure via the blitz only.
against teams with better o lines, or qb's with quick releases we are going to get gashed

the d line better be able to contribute their share of pressure

shally
08-27-2007, 05:02 PM
Well the one apparent thing to me is that we're able to get pressure on 3rd down when our speed rushers are in and when our backups are on the field with the young speed rushers.

Daniels can't get there at all anymore and teams are gonna come after us on 1st and 2nd down unless we mix things up more and put Wilson and others on the field on 1st and 2nd downs.


wilson is not the answer by himself.. he did not look that great against other teams better players.
we need pressure from griff and golston up the middle and daniels has to show he still has the ability to rush

MadDog97
08-27-2007, 07:55 PM
wilson is not the answer by himself.. he did not look that great against other teams better players.
we need pressure from griff and golston up the middle and daniels has to show he still has the ability to rush

We definitely need more pressure up the middle, and you know my feelings on the line. I like Golston to get better but Griff concerns me. I also don't count on Montgomery for anything. Of course, you know how badly I wanted to see us draft a DT. How does Askew look to you? I think Carter will be fine but who knows on the other side. Has Demetric Evans shown anything? Wilson may be good in the future, but not now.

And let us shed a tear Mr. Pinkston.

BYE!!!!

Canfan
08-27-2007, 08:19 PM
I think the biggest obstacle to having a nasty D is confidence. We seem to have alot of talent in the back seven, team speed, and a good mix of vets and youth. If we can make some early stops, or big plays, this D could get the confidence and swagger to really become special.:danger:

lorimike
08-27-2007, 08:27 PM
No doubt the back seven is majorly improved. The D- line might be a smidge better than we think. Golsten looks to be getting a better push and Carter is generating some pressure. I didn't see the game against Balitimore so I don't know how Griffen looked.

akhhorus
08-27-2007, 08:45 PM
wilson is not the answer by himself.. he did not look that great against other teams better players.
we need pressure from griff and golston up the middle and daniels has to show he still has the ability to rush

Yeah, well....Daniels and Wynn don't look good against the other teams' cheerleaders lol

LATrueRedskin
08-27-2007, 09:38 PM
I think we have definately made an improvement from last year defensively. We're swarming to the ball better, tackling better, and our players are making smarter decisions. Scheme-wise, it may be hard to tell because it's just the preseason and who knows how much "real" offense we're seeing, but I've already seen improvements on the basics, which is a very good sign. Guys are healthy (knock on wood), and we should be going into the first game in good shape (again, knock on wood. Do it, do it now!). Time will tell if we're back to proper form, but we're definately heading in the right direction.

GibbsFan
08-28-2007, 12:42 AM
Well we are three preseason games in and there appears to be vast improvement over last year ….
BUT this is preseason and all things aren’t what they appear.
Yes Fletcher is a major upgrade to the MLB position and Landry is the real deal. The CB area is solid as long as Springs is healthy ……… SO my question to the hR faithful:
Have we really made improvement OR do you think our lack of pass rush and D-line pressure will catch-up to us????

For me my concern is that many offensives will be able to adjust to our scheme. I had to raise an eyebrow when the McNair and company drove for a TD.

Upgrade List


We have 11 instead of 10 with Holdman gone.
See item #1


Will be fine if we can run the ball to rest this D, otherwise they will wear down. Ball control will be a key to their success.

joethefan
08-28-2007, 02:42 AM
I'd rather see them against and nfc eat team first....but overall i am very excited. I think they have worked hard and it's showing in the way they are flying to the ball.....
other than that, I'm excited....

smoak
08-28-2007, 05:51 AM
So far, so good.

That said, Rocky's knack for missing a key tackle is troubling. Also, I think we'll be closer to 2005 than 2004. '04 was one of the best defenses I've ever seen and had the ffense been anything close to productive we could have gone far. The '05 defense was great at times, but still showed holes at others.

One TD drive in three preseason games is pretty good though. If we can hold teams to ~ 15 points, we'll win some foosball games for sure.

Hr fan
08-28-2007, 09:56 AM
While we are enthused the raters at Madden 2008 are not. Our top rated player is Fletcher at 71 (meaning that every other NFL team averaged 2+ players before our highest ranked player), with Portis coming in around 143. While this is based on last years stats Jamarcus Russell comes in nearly 300 players more valuable than JC, and LL is about 400 players lower than his brother who is in the 550s.

Either Peter King and Fatsarelli are on their board or there are a lot of 'Skins doubters out there.

BigCountry
08-28-2007, 10:23 AM
Everyone is talking about going back to the defense we had in 04 but at the same time saying we can't do it without imporvements on the defensive line. Guess what? This is pretty much the same line. I've been saying since 04 that Griffin and Salave'a are our two most important players on D and if they're healthy it's an instant upgrade. With Fletcher and Landry playing behind them we could go back to being an elite run defense. A safety making a differance in run defense? Ask the Colts...

As far as the pass rush goes, we had 40 sacks in 04 and the most by a defensive lineman was about 5-6. The key there was the secondary holding up long enough in order for the blitzing to be effective and this year that could POTENTIALLY happen again. The D-line is what it is, if we rely on it soley we won't get far so it's a good thing we won't. Everyone's screaming for defensive line upgrades but damn people it's late August...ain't gonna happen. Look back on that 04 defense we all love and revere and let me know if someone set the world on fire on the D-line in terms of pass rush?

BigCountry
08-28-2007, 01:29 PM
I GIVE UP!!!

MikeBass
08-28-2007, 08:46 PM
Everyone is talking about going back to the defense we had in 04 but at the same time saying we can't do it without improvements on the defensive line. Guess what? This is pretty much the same line. I've been saying since 04 that Griffin and Salave'a are our two most important players on D and if they're healthy it's an instant upgrade. With Fletcher and Landry playing behind them we could go back to being an elite run defense. A safety making a differance in run defense? Ask the Colts...

As far as the pass rush goes, we had 40 sacks in 04 and the most by a defensive lineman was about 5-6. The key there was the secondary holding up long enough in order for the blitzing to be effective and this year that could POTENTIALLY happen again. The D-line is what it is, if we rely on it soley we won't get far so it's a good thing we won't. Everyone's screaming for defensive line upgrades but damn people it's late August...ain't gonna happen. Look back on that 04 defense we all love and revere and let me know if someone set the world on fire on the D-line in terms of pass rush?


I think that you are exactly right, the defense is constructed like '04's but we may have an slight upgrade at SS, MLB, corner depth and a more mature Sean Taylor. I think that we are looking at other team's D-line and wishing that we were more like them but, I don't think, that this is how Williams wanted to construct his D, his D consists of a strong linebacking crew, agressive safties and corners who can, cover, blitz and play the run. Although, I do think that the line can be better, I also think that teams would be salivating to have our safety's youth and potential. No team has it all but we do have a team that can more than effectively produce in Williams' defense and that is what we set out to do this offseason.

It is not like the d-line is not there, Carter IS there, Griff IS there, Golston and Montgomery IS there to do their parts and will probably get more opportunities for sacks and tackles with the confusion that the back seven's aggression will create.

BigCountry
08-28-2007, 09:16 PM
I think that you are exactly right, the defense is constructed like '04's but we may have an slight upgrade at SS, MLB, corner depth and a more mature Sean Taylor. I think that we are looking at other team's D-line and wishing that we were more like them but, I don't think, that this is how Williams wanted to construct his D, his D consists of a strong linebacking crew, agressive safties and corners who can, cover, blitz and play the run. Although, I do think that the line can be better, I also think that teams would be salivating to have our safety's youth and potential. No team has it all but we do have a team that can more than effectively produce in Williams' defense and that is what we set out to do this offseason.

It is not like the d-line is not there, Carter IS there, Griff IS there, Golston and Montgomery IS there to do their parts and will probably get more opportunities for sacks and tackles with the confusion that the back seven's aggression will create.

It's also similar to the way his defensive lines looked in Tennessee, minus of course a Jevon Kearse but there was nothing near Jevon Kearse in this draft with all due respect to Jamaal Anderson. You can't have everything...

MikeBass
08-28-2007, 09:38 PM
It's also similar to the way his defensive lines looked in Tennessee, minus of course a Jevon Kearse but there was nothing near Jevon Kearse in this draft with all due respect to Jamaal Anderson. You can't have everything...

I think that the fandom was looking for miracles with a few draft picks and little operating room in free agency but what we got was players who could play in and improve Williams' defense while we saved draft choices and cap space for the next offseason.....The FO did a wonderful job

BurgundyNGold
08-28-2007, 09:46 PM
I think that the fandom was looking for miracles with a few draft picks and little operating room in free agency but what we got was players who could play in and improve Williams' defense while we saved draft choices and cap space for the next offseason.....The FO did a wonderful job
Save it for the regular season when we face real offenses for 4 quarters of whole games. The horses are still in the gate. ;)

MikeBass
08-28-2007, 09:52 PM
Save it for the regular season when we face real offenses for 4 quarters of whole games. The horses are still in the gate. ;)

Save what?

BurgundyNGold
08-28-2007, 09:56 PM
Save what?
Save the Peter Pan speak about the FO. We've had 2.6 preseason games, of which little more than one game worth had the starters playing. In that time, those starters have gotten 0 turnovers and 0 sacks.

Let's see where we are in Week 10 before you start handing out undeserved accolades.

MikeBass
08-28-2007, 10:09 PM
Save the Peter Pan speak about the FO. We've had 2.6 preseason games, of which little more than one game worth had the starters playing. In that time, those starters have gotten 0 turnovers and 0 sacks.

Let's see where we are in Week 10 before you start handing out undeserved accolades.

Never that, I will be speaking, Peter pan or not, about the defense and how well that they are playing as long as they are playing as well as they are.

The starters are doing EXACTLY what they need to be doing at this point of the game (stopping teams from scoring).

Accolades are well deserved for these guys this pre-season

BurgundyNGold
08-28-2007, 10:16 PM
Never that, I will be speaking, Peter pan or not, about the defense and how well that they are playing as long as they are playing as well as they are.

The starters are doing EXACTLY what they need to be doing at this point of the game (stopping teams from scoring).

Accolades are well deserved for these guys this pre-season
That's certainly your right and you're actually not far off from having reason. Still, 0 turnovers and 0 sacks in 3 weeks is pathetic. Surely, that's not "exactly what they need to be doing" is it?

Oh, and while I can see being positive about the defense, giving the FO accolades for, well, anything in preseason is so premature it's just foolish. That's what I meant you should wait until Week 10 or so for.

MikeBass
08-28-2007, 10:49 PM
That's certainly your right and you're actually not far off from having reason. Still, 0 turnovers and 0 sacks in 3 weeks is pathetic. Surely, that's not "exactly what they need to be doing" is it?

Oh, and while I can see being positive about the defense, giving the FO accolades for, well, anything in preseason is so premature it's just foolish. That's what I meant you should wait until Week 10 or so for.

If this NEW revamped defense has not allowed points in only 2.6 games in being together we can only imagine what they are going to do when the chemistry comes together, players starts to know where each other are going to be and the sacks and turnovers DOES start to come .

BurgundyNGold
08-28-2007, 10:59 PM
If this NEW revamped defense has not allowed points in only 2.6 games in being together we can only imagine what they are going to do when the chemistry comes together, players starts to know where each other are going to be and the sacks and turnovers DOES start to come .
Huh? This new, revamped defense gave up no points? They have given up 6, 12 and 7 points in the 3 games.

And, since we're dealing in preseason reality, I will state again that the first team defense has collected zero (0) sacks, which is probably why they have also managed to collect zero (0) turnovers.

MikeBass
08-28-2007, 11:15 PM
Huh? This new, revamped defense gave up no points? They have given up 6, 12 and 7 points in the 3 games.

And, since we're dealing in preseason reality, I will state again that the first team defense has collected zero (0) sacks, which is probably why they have also managed to collect zero (0) turnovers.

I know and you are right, we did give up points ( I really did not mean "zero" points) but I will take 6, 12 and 7 point EVERY three games.

In the Titans games we were placed in some bad situations and our defense played great and allowed "next to nothing".

The defense has played marvelous at this point. Mike Tomlin ( A DEFENSIVE GUY!!!) even pointed out how fired up the defense was against the Steelers. There is no need to down these guys at this point unless they start to play badly.

BurgundyNGold
08-28-2007, 11:20 PM
I know and you are right, we did give up points ( I really did not mean "zero" points) but I will take 6, 12 and 7 point EVERY three games.

In the Titans games we were placed in some bad situations and our defense played great and allowed "next to nothing".

The defense has played marvelous at this point. Mike Tomlin ( A DEFENSIVE GUY!!!) even pointed out how fired up the defense was against the Steelers. There is no need to down these guys at this point unless they start to play badly.
I will give them their preseason due. 6, 12 and 7 points is awesome. However, 0 sacks and 0 turnovers is abysmal. Just as their points allowed are excellent and should be acknowledged, their failures should at least equally be pointed out as areas that need improvement.

MikeBass
08-28-2007, 11:22 PM
I will give them their preseason due. 6, 12 and 7 points is awesome. However, 0 sacks and 0 turnovers is abysmal. Just as their points allowed are excellent and should be acknowledged, their failures should at least equally be pointed out as areas that need improvement.

I totally agree

redwolf1218
08-29-2007, 08:14 AM
I will give them their preseason due. 6, 12 and 7 points is awesome. However, 0 sacks and 0 turnovers is abysmal. Just as their points allowed are excellent and should be acknowledged, their failures should at least equally be pointed out as areas that need improvement.

didnt Sartz get a TD off a QB fumble? doesnt that count as a sack, a forced fumble, and a defensive TD?

redskin_rich
08-29-2007, 08:19 AM
didnt Sartz get a TD off a QB fumble? doesnt that count as a sack, a forced fumble, and a defensive TD?

It was an INT for a TD and it was the 2nd string.

redwolf1218
08-29-2007, 08:22 AM
It was an INT for a TD and it was the 2nd string.

ok but this conversation that i have been following is not limited to first string. the defense did get a turnover and a score, and it came directly from pressure on the QB.

redskin_rich
08-29-2007, 08:28 AM
ok but this conversation that i have been following is not limited to first string. the defense did get a turnover and a score, and it came directly from pressure on the QB.

What started the conversation you were following (emphasis on the text in bold):
Huh? This new, revamped defense gave up no points? They have given up 6, 12 and 7 points in the 3 games.

And, since we're dealing in preseason reality, I will state again that the first team defense has collected zero (0) sacks, which is probably why they have also managed to collect zero (0) turnovers.

Hr fan
08-29-2007, 09:13 AM
It's also similar to the way his defensive lines looked in Tennessee, minus of course a Jevon Kearse but there was nothing near Jevon Kearse in this draft with all due respect to Jamaal Anderson. You can't have everything...

Did you see Atlanta's game last week? Anderson is a beast, and superior to Kearse in that he can already play the run better.

dj_stouty
08-29-2007, 09:24 AM
Did you see Atlanta's game last week? Anderson is a beast, and superior to Kearse in that he can already play the run better.

I watched it. Anderson looked really, really good. He looks like he is going to be a star in this league.

Yup, I was jealous. ;)

Keino
08-29-2007, 09:43 AM
I watched it. Anderson looked really, really good. He looks like he is going to be a star in this league.

Yup, I was jealous. ;)

Me too, but, I will say that I have been very pleased by what Landry has shown as well. Sure, I wanted Anderson, but Landry appears to be worth what he cost us.

BigCountry
08-29-2007, 09:45 AM
Did you see Atlanta's game last week? Anderson is a beast, and superior to Kearse in that he can already play the run better.

Yeah let's see him take a regular season snap before we say he's better then Kearse. Also, he was playing against a backup tackle, not Willie Anderson.

dj_stouty
08-29-2007, 09:49 AM
Me too, but, I will say that I have been very pleased by what Landry has shown as well. Sure, I wanted Anderson, but Landry appears to be worth what he cost us.

I agree 100%.

The FO may have neglected the D-line with the first pick, but they certainly hit the jackpot on a superb d-back like Landry.

Just because I initally wanted to draft someone else (Okoye in my case) doesn't mean I wont' support Landry 110%. I already got his jersey and I'm onboard...

BurgundyNGold
08-29-2007, 11:07 AM
What started the conversation you were following (emphasis on the text in bold):
Thanks. Sometimes, I forget to restate every aspect of my position for the benefit of folks who might not read the whole exchange.

BurgundyNGold
08-29-2007, 11:09 AM
Yeah let's see him take a regular season snap before we say he's better then Kearse. Also, he was playing against a backup tackle, not Willie Anderson.
Perhaps you have not been following along. Who needs the regular season? 2.6 games in the preseason is all we need to know that our defense is back and our FO are geniuses. :D

smoak
08-29-2007, 11:13 AM
I think that the fandom was looking for miracles with a few draft picks and little operating room in free agency but what we got was players who could play in and improve Williams' defense while we saved draft choices and cap space for the next offseason.....The FO did a wonderful job

Here, here! I really liked this offseason EXCEPT thinking Wade was a solution at OG. My biggest complaint was the past decisions (Rocky for example) that left us with a depleated draft.

smoak
08-29-2007, 11:18 AM
Did you see Atlanta's game last week? Anderson is a beast, and superior to Kearse in that he can already play the run better.

I didn't see the game, but Jevon Kearse prior to the injuries looked like the second coming out there. Better than any DE I have seen since Reggie. The man just flat out dominated.

James F. Quinn
08-29-2007, 12:22 PM
Here, here! I really liked this offseason EXCEPT thinking Wade was a solution at OG. My biggest complaint was the past decisions (Rocky for example) that left us with a depleated draft.

It's hard to separate the FO decisions from the coaching decisions, seeing as how Joe is both the HC and the Pres.

I would think that the Wade experiment was a coaching decision.

The profligate tossing away of draft choices has to be squarely on the FO.

shally
08-29-2007, 12:23 PM
Here, here! I really liked this offseason EXCEPT thinking Wade was a solution at OG. My biggest complaint was the past decisions (Rocky for example) that left us with a depleated draft.

but if rocky continues to look as good as he has looked, he was worth what we paid to get him..