Anybody else disappointed with this win vs the terrible Jets?

[jsarno]

I went to bed last night with mixed emotions. On one hand, we won the game, and that after all is the most important factor. But on the other hand, we had some serious problems that would prevent us from winning future games.
1- For instance, we had NO...ZERO pressure on the immobile to a FAULT Testeverde. They were man handled all night except for when Wynn got in ONCE, but that play was a result of the coverage.
2- Ramsey stunk it up in the second quarter, SOMEHOW managing to get player of the game depite the fact that he threw on one td, but had 2 turnovers.
3- The offense tried to open the field exactly ONCE with a semi deep pass to Coles (the one where Ramsey did his hudini act).
4- the special teams were nothing special. Barker was fine, and Hall was consistant, but our special teams coverage and kickoff / punt returns were ho hum.
5- I do recall us winning the first game of the year last year, just to turn around and lose 9 of 15 from there.
I don't know about you guys, but I saw an average team beating a below average team.
We had outstanding play from Arrington and the linebacking corp, and great play from the secondary. Bowen impressed me in his first game.
Am I being too tough on the skins here? Is this just first game rust?

[REDMAN]

All teams struggle at some time or another. look at it this way, 1 game, 1 win! we beat a good team.

[RichardBradley]

I wish I remember going to bed maybe I wouldn't feel so bad... If we win every game 16 - 13 we will still be 16-0 right?

[jsarno]

Originally posted by REDMAN
we beat a good team.

I don't beleive so. That Jets team was not a good one. Without Pennington last year, they sucked as well. They had some good points to their game, but overall, they are a below average, or average at best team.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by RichardBradley
I wish I remember going to bed maybe I wouldn't feel so bad... If we win every game 16 - 13 we will still be 16-0 right?

Last year we won the first game of the season 31-23 and felt good about the win. The following game we lost 37-7.
If we play like we did (especially offensively and D-line wise) last night for every game of this season, we will be under .500 again.

[REDMAN]

Well, they made the playoffs so I think that qualifies as a good team. and in a very tough division i might add.

[Spence]

The Jets are good defensively, JSARNO. Their defensive ends are excellent and their cornerbacks, especially Donnie Abraham, are very good, as well. The linebackers are slow, but they don't miss many tackles and are sound technically.

[TexSkin]

jsarno I disagree with you
Our O-line was bad on pass protection but great at run blocking.
Pass Blocking is always the harder of the 2 and I think the Skins O-line just needs more time playing together. The Defense while not putting alot of pressure on Vinny did an excellent job of run stuffing. I did not see too much blitzing so I think they had a different agenda which worked to perfection. How can ya complain about 150 total yards for the Jets. ;)
The special teams looked way better then last year.
All in all this is a very young team that is only gonna get better as the seaon goes along.
Lastly A win is a win. I'll take an ugly win over a pretty loss any day.

[NCskinsfanatic]

Disappointed?Not at all!
1.-The d-line needs to learn to apply more pressure.I'm not sure if some of this couldnt be in the lack of blitz packages for the LBs or if it truley was the best our ends could do.We need Upshaw to play like he did for the Raiders a year or two ago so he can rest Smith.
2.Ramsey wasnt as sharp in the 2nd but he hardly stunk it up.Talk to Samuels about that fumble not Ram.The int was his fault,bad read.He looked more poised than any time last year.
3.The offense played within themselves,we will open it up but SS has learned from last year if you keep trying to chunk it down the field you'll have a lot of 3 and outs.I liked the playcalling.
4.ST looked better than in preseason,still need better blocking on returns and better tackling and lane coverage on returns.
5.Yes we beat the panthers opening day last year but this is a better team(Jets)and we have improved as well.This is the type of game that we havent been able to win in the past.The difference in 7-9 and 9-7 lies on winning the ugly games and defending your home turf.
We are improved and if we continue to get better we will be on the plus side of a 500 season.If this is the best we can be then 7-9,8-8 with this schedule would be the best they can do IMO!

[NCskinsfanatic]

Originally posted by jsarno
I don't beleive so. That Jets team was not a good one. Without Pennington last year, they sucked as well. They had some good points to their game, but overall, they are a below average, or average at best team. Shoot with todays parity in the league half the teams or more are average so we should be alright :D

[PennSkinsFan]

As for me, Ramsey played well, Hall is so damn accurate, defense held its own, it was the first week with alot of jitters, I am happier than anything.

Jets are gonna be tough, we hung in, didnt blow it, and Ram satyed cool. Can't say that i feel any worries right now.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by TexSkin
jsarno I disagree with you
Our O-line was bad on pass protection but great at run blocking.
Pass Blocking is always the harder of the 2 and I think the Skins O-line just needs more time playing together.

WHo said anything about the O-Line? I talked about the D-Line. The O-Line did a much better job than last year of protecting Ramsey, and the running lanes were pretty decent.

The Defense while not putting alot of pressure on Vinny did an excellent job of run stuffing. I did not see too much blitzing so I think they had a different agenda which worked to perfection. How can ya complain about 150 total yards for the Jets. ;)

Thanks to teh linebackers. They were amazing.
150 yards total offense was due to good defensive play, absolutely, but that had a lot to do with the geriatrics on the other side of hte ball as well. How many times did you see an LB stuff the run, not a DL?

The special teams looked way better then last year.
Completely disagree here (other than hall...then again...lookat my sig on what I think of hall). We looked the same other than Hall.

All in all this is a very young team that is only gonna get better as the seaon goes along.
Lastly A win is a win. I'll take an ugly win over a pretty loss any day.

We are not a very young team, we are a team that hasn't played a lot together. Chemistry I can see you saying. And I may be too hard them considering they haven't had a lot of time together.

But was NO ONE disappointed with some aspect of our play last night?

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Spence
The Jets are good defensively, JSARNO. Their defensive ends are excellent and their cornerbacks, especially Donnie Abraham, are very good, as well. The linebackers are slow, but they don't miss many tackles and are sound technically.

you have a point...abraham is a flat out stud. They do have a good defense. Not spectacular, but better than average. But their offense sucks monkey.....

[Spence]

Originally posted by jsarno
But was NO ONE disappointed with some aspect of our play last night?
Just you, so far.

[Skin-E-Dip]

It was the perfect 1st game. We came away with a win and every player now knows the potential that the offense and defense has when its clicking. But at the same time with that second half they saw that they still got a lot of work to do and won't be going back to practice this week thinking they are hotshots.

[LakeAnneCrew]

I'm miffed. How can there be any bad feelings? Yes, the D-Line didn't generate much pressure. But I would say enough top win. What about the defense holding the Jets to 158 yards of TOTAL OFFENSE. We rushed for 160 yards.

I don't care who you are playing, but yielding just 158 yards of total offense is domination. And remember, we did that mostly without pressure. What will happen when we get those two new tackles in there and pushing from the inside? And we blitz more.

No, I think the defense will be fine especially now that we have some tacklers. How many missed tackles did you see? A handful? That's it.

Arrington seems to be more in control and was indeed everywhere. He also didn't miss any tackles last night.

I heard Vinnie on ESPN News say that there were many times the Skins picked the right formation and play to upset the Jets offense. I think a lot of credit has to go to Edwards. I don't think the Skins blitzed as much as we will against other teams (another reason for few hurries on the QB) because we didn't want to give Vinnie the big play and give him confidence. The defense let everything develop in front of them and then made the tackle. The Jets were short many times on third down.

Please, don't feel bad about this VICTORY.

[Skin-E-Dip]

Also, I think this game showed that Steve Spurrier does belong in the NFL and can coach a team to play at a high level. Maybe this will shut up some of these idiots who think he is some country bumpkin that wants to chuck it in the air every play

[IowaSkinsFan]

We all knew and recognized that Ramsey was going to make mistakes. This was his 6th start. He will learn from that interception. The DB was sitting on the pattern and Ramsey looked him down the whole time. It's unfortunate, but he needs to make those types of mistakes in order to learn from them so as not to repeat them.

The larger concern for me is the play of the O line (pass blocking) and the D line (no pass rush). The 2 of the sacks were out and out one on one losses to the D lineman. Abraham wooped Samuels around the corner and Ellis bull rushed Jansen on the second sack. The first was an excellent stunt that the line call did not pick up.

I agree with jsarno in that we should not be making our plans for the wild card round just yet. There are definite things that need fixed. The O line should know that Ramsey will be right in the pocket so pass blocking for him should be easier. Samuels needs to stop playing on his reputation or that will go south.

Defensively, Edwards is going to have to come up with a scheme to get pressure on the QB, because our Dlineman are just to slow to get any kind of rush. Bruce is wearing out. It might take all 16 games to get that record.

BTW, did Ladairis Jackson suit up last night?

[TexSkin]

Man you and Robert are a bunch of Kill Joys. Let us enjoy the win. ;)

[jsarno]

Originally posted by NCskinsfanatic
Disappointed?Not at all!
1.-The d-line needs to learn to apply more pressure.I'm not sure if some of this couldnt be in the lack of blitz packages for the LBs or if it truley was the best our ends could do.We need Upshaw to play like he did for the Raiders a year or two ago so he can rest Smith.

100% agree...obviously. :D

2.Ramsey wasnt as sharp in the 2nd but he hardly stunk it up.Talk to Samuels about that fumble not Ram.The int was his fault,bad read.He looked more poised than any time last year.

I disagree. He did stink it up in the second half with only 40ish passing yards, and BOTH turnovers. Ramsey could have avoided that rush, but (abraham I think it was) had a GREAT jump timing the snap count. (meaning Ramsey was too predictable behind the center.)

3.The offense played within themselves,we will open it up but SS has learned from last year if you keep trying to chunk it down the field you'll have a lot of 3 and outs.I liked the playcalling.

What game were you watching last year. I recall seeing a stat at the end of the season last year that we were one of the worst teams in attempts down field. Wedidn't try to open the offense last year, and we're starting that trend this year.
Back in 99, Turner and Johnson opened the field up, and it worked WONDERS, we were a top 5 offense. This HAS to occur if the "fun and gun" will ever work. I'm not saying do it every play...just once in a while. Those DBs were not respecting the deep ball, and they were playing in. Gotta keep them back.

4.ST looked better than in preseason,still need better blocking on returns and better tackling and lane coverage on returns.

agreed...it wasn't morton's fault there were 3 guys waiting for him.

5.Yes we beat the panthers opening day last year but this is a better team(Jets)and we have improved as well.This is the type of game that we havent been able to win in the past.The difference in 7-9 and 9-7 lies on winning the ugly games and defending your home turf.

It was the Cards (which proves you point MORE, I know), but just watch the Jets win only 6 games or so this year (or do horrible until the return of Pennington).
You do make an extreme valid point. We have not been able to win these games in the past, and we did pull out a last minute victory which hasn't happened in a while. That's something very positive to cling to.

We are improved and if we continue to get better we will be on the plus side of a 500 season.If this is the best we can be then 7-9,8-8 with this schedule would be the best they can do IMO!

We have too much talent for a sub .500 season. I guess, I am just saying that I know we can play better. I was disappointed, but chemistry IS a factor...so I am being too hard on the skins.
Now we face the Vickless falcons. Which is the way I would prefer it. We get two +.500 teams from a year BOTH without their main weapons that made them good. (without those two players, they would both be sub .500)

[jsarno]

Originally posted by REDMAN
Well, they made the playoffs so I think that qualifies as a good team. and in a very tough division i might add.

This is an entirely different year. They have 63 year old color blind Vinny at the helm instead of their stud pennington. Don't forget the Jets had only 1 win last year before Pennington single handedly led them to the playoffs.

Not only that, we stole 4 of their top 6 players.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Spence
Just you, so far.

then maybe I am being too hard on the skins.

(this is what YEARS of being mediocre at best will do to you!)

[jsarno]

Originally posted by TexSkin
Man you and Robert are a bunch of Kill Joys. Let us enjoy the win. ;)

Robert and I see more than the "W". this is a marathon, not a sprint. And so far, I don't see any "kenyans" on our team.

I think the biggest reason with my concern is the fact that our teams over the years have done little to correct problems throughout the season. Last year being the worst. With this mind set, we are in a HEEP of trouble.

So I tell you what...I'll lay low on these feelings until I see how the skins play next week. It's only fair to give them 2 weeks before a true accurate reading.

Sorry for being a Kill joy...just concerned, and I WANT A DAMN PLAYOFF BERTH THIS YEAR!

[Spence]

Originally posted by robert11273
BTW, did Ladairis Jackson suit up last night?
No.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Originally posted by TexSkin
Man you and Robert are a bunch of Kill Joys. Let us enjoy the win. ;)

Killjoy, maybe. But realistic to a fault. No one is more enthused with the W than I am. As a matter of fact, all of my employees noted when I got to work last night that I was in a very good mood, ergo the Skins must have won. But I digress. I only point out areas in need of improvement so as our fan base here at our beloved hR does not develop a sense of overconfidence, lest we turn into the Jets Fan site.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by robert11273
Killjoy, maybe. But realistic to a fault. No one is more enthused with the W than I am. As a matter of fact, all of my employees noted when I got to work last night that I was in a very good mood, ergo the Skins must have won. But I digress. I only point out areas in need of improvement so as our fan base here at our beloved hR does not develop a sense of overconfidence, lest we turn into the Jets Fan site.

Oh if that wasn't the best comment thus far!
Right on the money robert, as usual.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Spence
No.

Didn't you JUST SAY yes????

[AZ#1SkinsFan]

Disappointed . . . HELL NO. With all the new players and starters on the Skins roster I thought we played a hell of a game. Its going to take some time for the O-Line, the passing game and the D to really get used to playing together and run like the well oiled machine we want them to be. BUT, they played well enought to win, something they haven't done in a long time. Let just hope they can keep improving. Once the O-Line starts to gel and protects on passing plays, the offense is going to be awesome. The D-Line needs to figure out a way to get more pressure on the QB (why no Ladairis Jackson . . . we need his pressure and his motor). Overall though, for a team with some many new faces we HAVE to be PLEASED!!!

[PennSkinsFan]

If I dad any disappointment it would be with three things:

1. lack of pass rush. BUT, hell with it, I am getting used to us having a sucky pass rush. Seriously though, this has to be fixed. I heard on WTEM that there was no pass rush by design? I question that comment. It makes no sense to me that by design you will leave the opposing QB alone?

2. Penalties. False starts have to be eliminated. One here and there are fine, but we seem to plaugue ourselves when we start a drive.

3. Ohalete's late hits. These are just plain stupid mental error that we need to eliminate.

[Redbeard]

Jsarno,

I was disappointed the game had to be won twice by the offense. I think the criticism of the deffense is undeserved though: I'll take the 7-points-against over sacks anyday.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by PennSkinsFan
If I dad any disappointment it would be with three things:

1. lack of pass rush. BUT, hell with it, I am getting used to us having a sucky pass rush. Seriously though, this has to be fixed. I heard on WTEM that there was no pass rush by design? I question that comment. It makes no sense to me that by design you will leave the opposing QB alone?

well if it was by design...they played it to perfection!!!!! :D

2. Penalties. False starts have to be eliminated. One here and there are fine, but we seem to plaugue ourselves when we start a drive.

I didn't think it was that bad. But you're right. Stupid penalties have plaugued us for a few years now. That face mask was a poor choice too.

3. Ohalete's late hits. These are just plain stupid mental error that we need to eliminate.

I only recall one late hit...was there another.
That one was EARLY in the game, and he was ready to hit someone. I chalk that up to early season hyperactivity. Ohalete played very well the rest of the game.

[skinswin'emALL]

If I wanted to read bunch of mownin and grownin I would have gone to the Jets Fans Site. Ghheeesssshhhhh

[SkinsKY]

I understand your concern jsarno, and I share it too, but I don't think I'm disappointed. We made some smistakes and showed some weaknesses, but we played a good opening game. Unless a team is largely intact from the previous season, you can't expect to come out on all cylinders. These guys just played their first full 60 minutes together and they put together a win. We need better play from both lines and some tweaking here and there, but overall a good job. I think ATL will be a good tune up because they have a better D.

[REDMAN]

It seems like alot of us did not see it the same way. But I think it is safe to say we all saw a win! and that is all that counts. we will gameplan for each team differently. maybe the Jets offense looked bad because of our defense.

[NamVet4]

It was the FIRST game of the season – not the Super Bowl!

We Win!!!!! Fini, Period, End!

Sure there are some legitimate areas that need improvement – but c’mon sit back and bask in the light of victory.

:Partyup: :Partyup: :Partyup:

Have faith in a coaching staff that will address the needs and I guarantee we will look better as the season goes forward. All I want is improvement each week. Who knows, that philosophy may carry the Team to the playoffs!?!

:dance:

[LakeAnneCrew]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28793-2003Sep5.html

Please read Wilbon's column. It'll make you smile.

[Skinzaholic]

Oh come on!... A room filled with arm-chair coaches who sound about as bothersome as a squeaky wheel. I am certain most of you will be calling for Spurrier's head if we play this way against the Giants in week 3.

Jsarno and Robert are right in many ways. Against a stronger team, this game would have turned out MUCH different. Sure, there were good points... many. Ramsey definitely impressed... the Run stopping was solid... Lavar is still my hero... and John Hall makes us forget the last several years of misery...

BUT, to simply suck helium and claim we are all ecstatic about how the Skins played last night is simply unrealistic. It was game one... that made plenty of mistakes, almost gave the game away, and revealed the problems that we all were crying about 2 weeks ago.

Please prove that this site has fans willing to deal with reality, and not shout SUPERBOWL after one measely win over a skeleton Jets team.


Michael Wilburn said it best...

"It wasn't dominant or lopsided, or the kind of victory that should send folks to jump on a Super Bowl bandwagon, but it was solid, hard-nosed, fundamental football NFC-style, the stuff you can count on to a great degree week-in week-out, especially as a quarterback tries to gain experience and figures out how to use the talent around him. I bet Spurrier has never run that high a percentage of plays in his coaching career, but it worked. "




That is how I feel... and most of you should admit you feel that way as well instead of ganging up on Jsarno and Robert for being honest.


Here is the quote... "I'm not dissappointed... BUT..."


Give me a break.

[Odyn]

1) How many times was Ramsey sacked in the 2nd half?
2) Did u notice that we began to blitz in the 2nd half?
3) Did u notice that the Jets blitzed in the 2nd half?
4) Did u notice that Spurrier and Ramsey decided to stick with an effective speed bullrushing run game in the 2nd half?
5) Did you notice the lack of penalties in the 2nd half?

[LakeAnneCrew]

Indeed, Wilbon did say it best...

-- When a team has a game-breaker like Coles on one side, a game-wrecker like Arrington on the other, and a coach on a mission to use everybody in the smartest way possible, there's reason to feel good about what's yet to come.

Speaking for myself, I do put the game in perspective. But I also saw many things that I liked. I saw a young quarterback show championship form (game tied, two minutes to go, he leads us to victory) and I saw a rushing attack pile up 160 yards and a defense giving up just 158 yards. I choose to look at the positives as signs that things are improving.

Honestly, I don't think we win this game last year. Please give our team some credit.

[Skins57]

come on people we complian if we throw deep too much, we complain if we don't run enough, we complain if we run too much, don't pass deep enough. geessh

Our defense did exactly what it had to. Holding any professional football team to 158 yards is damn good, and we did it without a pass rush. Yes our LBers made a lot of run stops but this is supposed to be almost the same defense that Lewis ran and in Baltimore wasn't that the case where hte line took on blockers and the backers made the plays.

Ramsey good rattled because of the pickoff and even though in the second half he was struggling he still found a way to get this team into FG range with his legs.

Say what you want but this was a hard fought, good old fashion victory, now calm down and enjoy it.

Some people are never happy :D:D:D

[PennSkinsFan]

I was glad to see Ramsey take some bumps and come back from that interception. Folks, this is all part of a grand scheme, called, learning how to be a good NFL QB. Mistakes are good in the fact, you learn from them. He recovered well, did not fall apart. He learned.

[hail2skins]

I understand your concerns jsarno but how can you say that Ramsey stunk it up. He was 17-23 and that's close to 75%. He executed the game plan that Spurrier called which I thought was a good one.

There was a lack of pressure on Vinny but that was due to the fact that we were concentrating on stopping the run and making old Vinny beat us. The Jet's gameplan was very conservative but their play calling also negated the pass rush. They used alot of misdirection.

Yes, we need to improve on special teams. How come we never have that wedge of players for Morton. It seems we do more one-on-one blocking on kickoffs.

The defense played well last night. They were help by the Jet's conservative game plan. $hit, I'll take that if it means a win for us.

[TexSkin]

Skinzaholic I am not declaring us Superbowl winners or any other non sense. I am just happy we won. I know there are some areas that we need to work at but if you cant be happy with a win,why even bother watching the Skins at all. It was game 1 in a long season. I just want to enjoy that winning feeling.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by hail2skins
I understand your concerns jsarno but how can you say that Ramsey stunk it up. He was 17-23 and that's close to 75%. He executed the game plan that Spurrier called which I thought was a good one.

I said he stunk it up in the second half when he had only 40 some odd yards passingand both turnovers with no td's.
Going into the half, I was VERY pleased on both sides of the ball...then the old skins (offensively) came out to play in the second.

The defense played well last night. They were help by the Jet's conservative game plan. $hit, I'll take that if it means a win for us.

You're right...a win is a win is a win. I'll take it and run. But these first 6 games will be our toughest. We can't, ney, we WON'T win if we continue on this path. Let's hope the staff is addressing these issues.

I have a question for all. Just imagine for a moment that Sowell actually didn't try to use his feet in the endzone and CAUGHT that td pass. We would have lost the game. Now if we LOST, what would all of you be saying? Because all it took was that TD miss to change this game.
So imagine for a second we lost...would all of you be here saying it was a great game yadda yadda yadda, or would you be seeing all the faults that caused a loss?
I LOVE the fact we won. LOVE IT! But this team was clearly inferior and we barely squeeked it out!

And hail2skins...a lot of qb's have high percentages when they throw dump outs, and short yardage passes.
He threw 23 times and only managed 183 yards. It was the game plan to throw short passes I know, but how long do you thnk those inside lanes will be open for us if we don't open the field?
Again...I'm glad we won, I'm just concerned about our entire season, cause I don't know about you guys, but if we don't make the playoffs, I feel this season is a bust and spurrier needs to be fired.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by TexSkin
I know there are some areas that we need to work at but if you cant be happy with a win,why even bother watching the Skins at all.

I know I speak for every skins fan across the country when I say all of us are happy we won. That's truely the ONLY way to start a season!
Some of us are just concerned that if certain things don't change, those "W's" won't be coming around too often. I for one am more concerned with season as a whole than I am one game vs an inferior team. Don't forget, we were SUPPOSED to win that game. And we did so just barely.

Trust me, if we lost, I'd be a complete butt wipe in work today! I am happy we won. Just expressing concern is all.

[TexSkin]

hehe jsarno if your like this after a win...your right, I would hate to see you after a loss :D

[jsarno]

Originally posted by TexSkin
hehe jsarno if your like this after a win...your right, I would hate to see you after a loss :D

:lol1:

Yeah...I live this stuff man.

A lot of you guys make valid points. Especially the ones that said last year, we would not have pulled it out. We came down the stretch and hit a clutch field goal! How many times can we say that the past 6 years?
I'll get better I promise. :D

If I get extra picky and boil the problems down, I get two segments. 1- the d-line play with no pressure. With an immobile QB, we needed pressure, but the rest of our defense came up strong.
2- Ramsey playing like poo in the second half. We clearly see that we have good weapons in Coles, and Canidate / Betts. We have the "potential" to be dangerous. Now let's get out there and do so.

All I have to say is, THANK GOODNESS FOR OUR DEFENSE!

[Hailyeah]

Originally posted by TexSkin
hehe jsarno if your like this after a win...your right, I would hate to see you after a loss :D

Yes, my goodness jsarno. The concerns you are expressing are evident to all for upcoming games, but the fact is that we won with the performance on the field last night. The Win trumps any of these issues. We are the fans, not the players. We can enjoy the win and dance around a little unlike the players who can't rest on their laurels. I could understand maybe if we were suiting up here, but no, it was a nice first step and a young team finding out how to win a close ballgame at the end.

Oh, and the line by line dissections are a little overboard. Go have a rootbeer and come back in an hour...:D No, I know your heart is in the right place as are all of ours. :cool:

[REDMAN]

I live it to jsarno, which is why i am so happy we won. anything can happen in a ball game no matter who we play. all those years of losing these types of games just makes me appreciate it alot. we won a big game on national tv..........thats big for us.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Hailyeah


Oh, and the line by line dissections are a little overboard. :

I'm a VERY literal person. My mind works on over drive sometimes, and it's showing today.

All of you are pretty convinced it's just first game jitters...this is good, I'll relax now and wait for next week. I must be over reacting a little here.

But let it be known if this is a CONSTANT problem, i will point my finger at many here.

By the way Hailyeah...I liked the old image MUCH better.

[NamVet4]

Originally posted by Skinzaholic
Oh come on!... A room filled with arm-chair coaches who sound about as bothersome as a squeaky wheel. I am certain most of you will be calling for Spurrier's head if we play this way against the Giants in week 3.

Jsarno and Robert are right in many ways....

BUT, to simply suck helium and claim we are all ecstatic about how the Skins played last night is simply unrealistic. .....

Please prove that this site has fans willing to deal with reality, and not shout SUPERBOWL after one measely win over a skeleton Jets team.


Michael Wilburn said it best...

"It wasn't dominant or lopsided, or the kind of victory that should send folks to jump on a Super Bowl bandwagon, but it was solid, hard-nosed, fundamental football NFC-style, the stuff you can count on to a great degree week-in week-out, especially as a quarterback tries to gain experience and figures out how to use the talent around him. I bet Spurrier has never run that high a percentage of plays in his coaching career, but it worked. "




That is how I feel... and most of you should admit you feel that way as well instead of ganging up on Jsarno and Robert for being honest.


Here is the quote... "I'm not dissappointed... BUT..."


Give me a break.

I am all for anyone expressing their feelings about the game.
But it's time for a reality check.... Nothing, and I mean nothing, anyone says or writes here is going to change the way the Team is run! I wasn't ganging up on Jsarno and Robert - they have valid points. And if I misunderstood their enthusiasm for the performance of the Team, I apologize. And if I sucked helium and spoke in a high-pitched voice about how nice it was to have an opening day (night) victory, I apologize! As the scribe Michael Wilbon stated it is pretty much the type of typical, average football played week-in and week-out in the NFL.
Parity has made that apparent!
And if I raised my voice in chorus to the powers of football nirvana expressing the mere hint of a “Super Bowl” performance, I apologize!

And now, we can all sit back and enjoy the rest of the opening weekend festivities!

[Hailyeah]

Originally posted by jsarno

By the way Hailyeah...I liked the old image MUCH better.


Yeah, I did too. She had to open up her yapper and pick the Jets to cheer for though. It had to go prior to that game. Maybe I'll bring it back in a week or two. The Brittany pic would fly alot better in here than my champ pic though. I'm sure I would get PM deaththreats if I put that one back up. :twak:

[WRSK1NS]

Lots of valid points here! Hard to argue with anything that has been said. I myself looked at the positive things we did better last night than the things we did wrong. ST were not real special but they are a definite improvement over past years. For the most part Morton got to at least advance the ball forward. I remember last year the KR would get hammered shortly after catching the ball. I also liked the fact that Morton Fair-caught the ball inside of the 20 instead of taking the gamble that it would roll into the end zone for a TB. Again Last year we would start out on the 5 - 10 after a punt. Ramsey showed fashes of greatness last year and last night we saw more flashes from him in diffrent areas. After the game Salsbury on Sports Center broke down film on Ramsey from the game and pointed out several positve things and/or signs of Ramsey's developement. He is only going to get better with a few games and a little time. I think the play of the game could have been the throw he did not make down near the goal line. That one could have easily gone for 6 the other way! Right now I'm basking man, we usually find a way to lose close games, last night we found a way to win one. No we didin't produce a whole lot in the second half but we produced when we had too, not something we have seen in the last several years.
Well I will end this book and get back to basking and I hope the rest of you will join me!

[hail2skins]

Originally posted by jsarno
I said he stunk it up in the second half when he had only 40 some odd yards passingand both turnovers with no td's.
Going into the half, I was VERY pleased on both sides of the ball...then the old skins (offensively) came out to play in the second.

There are going to be games where he'll probably have less and we can still win. Momentum switches on you during the length of the game. It is probably attributed to the fact that the Jets closed the routes that were open in the 1st half.

Originally posted by jsarno
You're right...a win is a win is a win. I'll take it and run. But these first 6 games will be our toughest. We can't, ney, we WON'T win if we continue on this path. Let's hope the staff is addressing these issues.

I have a question for all. Just imagine for a moment that Sowell actually didn't try to use his feet in the endzone and CAUGHT that td pass. We would have lost the game. Now if we LOST, what would all of you be saying? Because all it took was that TD miss to change this game.
So imagine for a second we lost...would all of you be here saying it was a great game yadda yadda yadda, or would you be seeing all the faults that caused a loss?
I LOVE the fact we won. LOVE IT! But this team was clearly inferior and we barely squeeked it out!

Wow, we're playing the "what if" game after a win.

Originally posted by jsarno And hail2skins...a lot of qb's have high percentages when they throw dump outs, and short yardage passes.
He threw 23 times and only managed 183 yards. It was the game plan to throw short passes I know, but how long do you thnk those inside lanes will be open for us if we don't open the field?

Sometimes you have to take what the defense gives you because if you force it somewhere, you'll end up paying. (Ramsey's first INT for example). Also, a defense can prevent certain routes with their coverages as well.

[Odyn]

I know the feeling but I was listening to NY radio today and it sounded like the Jet fans were not sayin they were per se better. Course many Jet fans went back to sleep when Chad went down.

"As much as I feel bad for Chad Pennington -- who was turning into a terrific QB -- it was fun watching the Jets bandwagon flip 19 times and explode into flames on the Jersey turnpike. Never have a group of fans locked out of a season, at the same time, that fast. "-Simmons


But basically we need to BUILD off this win. We need to put more pressure on Pass coverage(not necessarily rush) and pass protection. We shore those two things up and we are set for 4 games at least.

[skinswin'emALL]

Originally posted by Skin-E-Dip
It was the perfect 1st game. We came away with a win and every player now knows the potential that the offense and defense has when its clicking. But at the same time with that second half they saw that they still got a lot of work to do and won't be going back to practice this week thinking they are hotshots.

Say it with me "FIRST GAME" I think it gives them a taste of both worlds:

- The potential they have, with the talent in place, IF they execute
- The potential they don't have when they don't execute

They have something REAL to work off. When they review the coaches tape, they will see stuff that was done well. On the flip side they will see where they broke down AND what the Jets might have done differently in the second half to adjust. They can build future game plans off this.

Even SuperBowl teams don't execute perfectly start to finish. The key is to out execute your opponent by 1 play if that's what it takes to win. That's life in the NFL. I think coach gets that now, and that gives me as much hope as anything else I've seen.

[CarMike]

A win is a win! I'm not saying that we'll win the SB by any means. But come on, we won the game. I"m not going to apologize for being happy that we won a close game that we normally find a way to lose.

NamVet, very well said!

[Skinzaholic]

NamVet - your all class man... nothing said by me was directed toward ANY individual... and it is too easy to chant the overused point nthat everyone has valid arguments...

I guess I just got a bit ticked at everyone attacking Jsarno and Robert for stating what was obvious... we didnt play great... BUT WE DID WIN!

I just want to see us correct those mistakes BEFORE we get into weeks 3-8.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Skinzaholic
NamVet - your all class man... nothing said by me was directed toward ANY individual... and it is too easy to chant the overused point nthat everyone has valid arguments...

I guess I just got a bit ticked at everyone attacking Jsarno and Robert for stating what was obvious... we didnt play great... BUT WE DID WIN!

I just want to see us correct those mistakes BEFORE we get into weeks 3-8.


Well said. I agree...


Maybe I was being a bit hasty...but it's not like they haven't done this to us before. (last year 31-23 to start the season, everyone was on a high, next week 37-7 crushing defeat) This is a new year though, and we've learned from last year...right? So here's to next week...keep up the good work!

[Styx22]

I rarely post, but I wanted to voice my opinion on this topic. I also wanted to say that it is a pleasure to read such passionate and knowledgeble posts on our beloved Redskins.

1.) Jsarno...you stated that we would have lost the game had Sowell had a decent pair of hands and actually caught that TD pass. I would just like to know how? The Jets scored their only TD three plays later.

2.) I understand that many of us would love for our team to play the perfect game. Rarely does this happen. In every game throughout the course of the season we will be able to look at some aspect of the game and say "Oh we could have performed better on this play". There is nothing wrong with wanting to achieve perfection. I just think it's tough when people get upset when we don't achieve it.

3) Personally I was happy with the victory, but definitely not satisfied. I believe we should have won the game handily because if you look at the stats we dominated them. I am going to focus on the positives:

SOS ability to focus on the running game when he realized that was our best opportunity to win.

Patrick's play in the 1st Half.

The play of our running backs.

The play of our defense as a unit.

4.)Just one last point. I'm not sure how you can blame that fumble on Ramsey. Maybe the snap count was predictable, but Samuels knew the snap count also and his job is to protect Ramsey's backside. You name me on QB who would not have fumbled on that play.

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by Styx22
I rarely post

May I ask WHY?

We would love to hear more from you, and anyone else that's out there "lurking".

Come 'on in. We don't bite. (Well, sometimes I do but for the sake of being hospitable disregard that for a moment):beer:

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Styx22
1.) Jsarno...you stated that we would have lost the game had Sowell had a decent pair of hands and actually caught that TD pass. I would just like to know how? The Jets scored their only TD three plays later.

Is that right? I guess my mind associated it with a different possession. My bad guys.

4.)Just one last point. I'm not sure how you can blame that fumble on Ramsey. Maybe the snap count was predictable, but Samuels knew the snap count also and his job is to protect Ramsey's backside. You name me on QB who would not have fumbled on that play.

Of course it's not entirely Ramsey's fault...Samuels should have never let that guy by. But Ramsey could have avoided him slightly, AND he could have easily tucked the ball. Taking a sack is better than the fumble. Just because Samuels blew his assignment, doesn't mean Ramsey can be careless with teh football.

I do have to say, after watching a week worth of football, only KC and Tampa impressed me and scared me at the same time. All other teams (I have NFL sunday ticket and flip through all games) made major mistakes and had major holes...meaning the Redskins did just fine.

[dj_stouty]

Originally posted by jsarno
But let it be known if this is a CONSTANT problem, i will point my finger at many here.

This isn't an "I told you so" type board...so dont' be surprised to get the finger back if you do.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by dj_stouty
This isn't an "I told you so" type board...so dont' be surprised to get the finger back if you do.

:lol1:

[Styx22]

Rskinsfan10...I really don't have a great reason for not posting on a regular basis. I usually visit the forum once a day and by the time I start reading the threads most of my views have already been stated.

[skinswin'emALL]

[i]
Of course it's not entirely Ramsey's fault...Samuels should have never let that guy by. But Ramsey could have avoided him slightly, AND he could have easily tucked the ball. Taking a sack is better than the fumble. Just because Samuels blew his assignment, doesn't mean Ramsey can be careless with teh football.[/B]

the only thing Ram did wrong was MAYBE a predictable snap count. However, many great plays by DE are made by taking chances with the snap. If right, a shot at a big play. If wrong, a penalty or a seep or draw right past them.

As far taking a sack on that play -- it was a seven step drop timing play and Ram was getting ready to throw on rythym. A good QB throws on timing and w/o thought of being sacked on a 3,5 or 7 step drop and throw. However, a good QB also has "pocket awareness" when he needs more time to find a receiver. I think Ram has done this well so far.

Bottom line is that's it's the OL job to block according to the timing of the play called (Sammules knew it was a 7 step drop play - OLT priority is outside-in on 7 step drop). If the play is not open and the QB needs more time it's his job to move around (to buy time), throw it away, run, or take the sack.

One of the many things that I believe will make Ram great in this league is his ability to stand tall in pocket and have the confidence in the players around him to make plays.

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by Styx22
Rskinsfan10...I really don't have a great reason for not posting on a regular basis. I usually visit the forum once a day and by the time I start reading the threads most of my views have already been stated.

That's cool, and understandable.

Just know that we would love to hear more from you even if it is to support a thought already posted.

[hail2skins]

Originally posted by rskinsfan10
That's cool, and understandable.

Just know that we would love to hear more from you even if it is to support a thought already posted.

Unlike some boards I've heard of.

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by hail2skins
Unlike some boards I've heard of.

Ahh, I forgot about that bit of news.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

What bit of news?

And Jsarno, Ramsey might have been able to avoid that DL if he had seen him coming at all, but he never did. I still fail to see how even the tinest bit of that fumble is his fault.

[jsarno]

who's hand did it come out of?

I'm not saying it's 100% ramsey's fault. Sacks are almost NEVER a QB's fault, but a fumble is...plain and simple. He and only he is responsible for holding on to the ball, and not giving it away.

[IowaSkinsFan]

In Ramsey's defense on the fumble, he was just starting his throwing motion, coming up to the cocked position, not yet going forward, that's why it was a fumble and not an incomplete pass.

[hail2skins]

Originally posted by robert11273
In Ramsey's defense on the fumble, he was just starting his throwing motion, coming up to the cocked position, not yet going forward, that's why it was a fumble and not an incomplete pass.

Thank you very much Robert. I just posted this comment in another thread. If his arm is cocked in the throwing motion and a defender swats and knocks the ball out, how can it be his fault? Credit the defender for a good play and chew out your olineman who allowed it to happen.

[PennSkinsFan]

I agree. I woudl have never blamed Ram for that fumble, not even 1%. i dont get that at all. The blame is fully on one person, Chris Samuels.

[jsarno]

I understand your position guys...I just disagree. You need to be aware of your surroundings, and you don't try to throw a ball when a guy is right on you.
Of course I have agreed Samuels is a huge part of that problem in the play. But a fumble comes down to the guy holding the ball and the decisions he makes.
If Ramsey handed off to Trung, and the O-Line let everyone and their mother rush the ball, and Trung fumbled, who's fault would it be? Of course Trungs.

[dj_stouty]

Originally posted by jsarno
I understand your position guys...I just disagree. You need to be aware of your surroundings, and you don't try to throw a ball when a guy is right on you.
Of course I have agreed Samuels is a huge part of that problem in the play. But a fumble comes down to the guy holding the ball and the decisions he makes.

Passing plays (particularly Spurriers) are designed around assignments and timing routes.

For instance:
Everyone has a job to do in between the x amount of seconds that the lead receiver will be in position for the reception. The WR1 may need to force coverage away from the middle of the field....the tailback's assignment may be to pick up any gap blitzes...the left tackle may be assigned to defend the right DE while giving the QB x amount of uninterupted seconds to make his pass...the QB knows that by x seconds, his foot should be planted for the toss to the receiver.

A breakdown in any of these assignment can spell disaster for the play. The good news is that most times when an assignment is blown, the QB has a few different options at his disposal.

However, there are not many alternatives for a right handed QB when his Left Tackle blows his assignment late in the progression of the play. (Thats why the Pace's and Samuel's of the world make so much money) Every other player completed his assignment, and the QB was already starting his throw. At that point, he is at the point of no return, and no alternatives are available.

The way I see it...a fumble was not the worst outcome of the play. Worse...that DE could have injured Ramsey, thus throwing our season down the toilet. I have no doubt that Ramsey has pocket presence....but some plays are designed in which the QB has to look into his Left Tackles eyes and say; "You got my back?".

The fumble was the fault of Chris Samuels. Plain and simple. THe DE didn't sack Ramsey to force the fumble. He hit his arm at the beginning point of the throw. Its unavoidable.

[jsarno]

this is fun isn't it???
Even though I don't agree in some of these cases, damn it sure is nice to talk about football again...and even better to talk about REDSKINS football. Been waiting all offseason for this!!!!

AAHHHHHHHH

[jsarno]

you're right...it could have been worse. (don't all jump down my throat at once...)BUT, if Ramsey goes down, Johnson I'm sure would not be that bad of a replacement. Not that Johnson is THAT good...BUT, I just don't see that Ramsey is anything over special right now.
(yes I know he's young, and it's early...I did say RIGHT NOW)

[skinswin'emALL]

Originally posted by jsarno
I understand your position guys...I just disagree. You need to be aware of your surroundings, and you don't try to throw a ball when a guy is right on you.
Of course I have agreed Samuels is a huge part of that problem in the play. But a fumble comes down to the guy holding the ball and the decisions he makes.
If Ramsey handed off to Trung, and the O-Line let everyone and their mother rush the ball, and Trung fumbled, who's fault would it be? Of course Trungs.

You really need to watch the play again. I have played organized FB as have others I'm sure. I can tell you for a fact that when the play was broke down by the coaches, Ram was not at fault.

As a QB you have to take your drops as the play was called (3,5 or 7 step) and throw. When and only when the play is not there and they need to buy time, run, take a sack, etc. is it on him to adjust to the rush. The line MUST know his drop and block as coached. For a right handed QB it is critical that the LT blocks accordingly. When a blitz comes up the middle and is not picked up, the QB either throws it away or takes a sack and lives to fight another day. Or he "ducks and chucks" it to Coles;)

[jsarno]

maybe this is stemming from my coach in college. (I played NAIA Div. 1 as a back up QB) and even if the DE got around, you need to be "aware" enough to tuck that ball, and no matter what, a fumble is your responsibility. That's what I was taught, and I still hold to that as a value.
I'm sure if you ask Ramsey, he'd call it a mistake on his part.
Like I said, I understand your point, I just don't agree with it.
It's not like it matters at this point anyway. Hopefully we will not have the need to discuss something like this after Atlanta!

[hail2skins]

I think Spurrier already said it wasn't Ramsey's fault.

[jsarno]

that's good...it will help the young lad with confidence going into this week. (he seemed to lose confidence after that interception)

[skinswin'emALL]

Originally posted by jsarno
maybe this is stemming from my coach in college. (I played NAIA Div. 1 as a back up QB) and even if the DE got around, you need to be "aware" enough to tuck that ball, and no matter what, a fumble is your responsibility. That's what I was taught, and I still hold to that as a value.
I'm sure if you ask Ramsey, he'd call it a mistake on his part.
Like I said, I understand your point, I just don't agree with it.
It's not like it matters at this point anyway. Hopefully we will not have the need to discuss something like this after Atlanta!

I played O line -- the problem with that is that's the rap on Rob Johnson -- he pays attention to rush and dances and protects all that stuff then misses the play down field. My coaches always told the QBs to throw is rythme, have faith in your line and we will make more plays than if the qb focuses on the rush (especially the blind side).

And I know we won't agree, that's OK, SS was stubburn last year but I think he's comin around this year:smash:

[jsarno]

as long as we win, which means fewer to's than opposition, I'll be fine! :D