who was the REAL MVP?

[jsarno]

Madden says Ramsey was the MVP, but I don't think so. I can think of 4 guys that deserve it more, maybe 5.
1- my first choice, JOHN HALL. Yes, he's a kicker, but he split the uprights on a 50 yarder that we haven't seen in a long time, AND kicked the game winning 32 yarder. 3 for 3 in all, and totaled 9 points of the 16. (over 56% of the offense)
2- Lavar Arrington. It would be a tough call between him and Hall, but you already heard my hall arguement. Arrington played flawless ball. He was EVERYWHERE. He impressed the CRAP out of me when he took Moss down with one arm. The man was a beast, and I don't care what anyone says, he's the best damn LB in the land!
3- Ladell Betts, played with heart, and always made important plays.
4- L. Coles. Caught everythig that came near him and was a force.
5- any of the secondary players. Most impressive was Bowen to me.

[Minnesota Mike]

Actually Hall got the PAT too, so he had 10 pts (or more than 58% of the total). But I still think the MVP was Ramsey. With the QB position such a question mark, Ramsey had a good showing in the first half. And he made the big play in the second half when the team needed it. Madden was right this time. Ramsey was the MVP.

[Spence]

All three linebackers.

[DallasSux]

i think iffy played good but the mvp was Betts. betts had some good runs

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Minnesota Mike
Actually Hall got the PAT too, so he had 10 pts (or more than 58% of the total). But I still think the MVP was Ramsey. With the QB position such a question mark, Ramsey had a good showing in the first half. And he made the big play in the second half when the team needed it. Madden was right this time. Ramsey was the MVP.

He sucked in the second half though.
His run was a good one, he saw the open field and hit it, and that was great. But two turnovers and only one td? Only 180ish yards passing as well. Not impressive.

You're right...I forgot about the PAT.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Spence
All three linebackers.

Now you're talking! Those linebackers dictated the entire momentum of the game.

[skinsfan44]

I agree that Ramsey should have been the MVP, but others were deserving also. Like you said, Hall was perfect last night, and Arrington was everywhere, but he didn't play "flawless ball". He got hit with an incrochment penalty when he tried to blitz once, but he was a beast last night.

No, the MVP was Ramsey.

[PennSkinsFan]

I say no contest folks. We all talked about what this team needed to compete this year. We all discussed and agreed what the big question mark was, andthat we would sink or swim with Ramsey. Last night, Ramsey swam very well.

[jporterweb]

Originally posted by jsarno
But two turnovers and only one td?

Neither was his fault in my opinion. Why? Here's Why.

INT - The ball was not thrown with the usual zip, but thats not the issue. The issue was that Gardner turned and stop. If he would've moved to the ball, instead of waiting for it, that dude(can't remember who picked it) wouldn't have been able to come from behind Gardner to make the play.


Fumble - You can't stop that fumble in 99% of the cases. He had too good a jump on the ball. Way to good.

[LuvSkins17]

I was impressed with Ramsey. The team can only get better with time.
Ramsey was the MVP in my eyes. He will have more people checking us out next week.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by jporterweb
Neither was his fault in my opinion. Why? Here's Why.

INT - The ball was not thrown with the usual zip, but thats not the issue. The issue was that Gardner turned and stop. If he would've moved to the ball, instead of waiting for it, that dude(can't remember who picked it) wouldn't have been able to come from behind Gardner to make the play.

100% disagree in both cases.
1- it was a pattern that Gardner ran just fine...Ramsey's timing was off, and shit...could the whole world (other than ramsey) not see that guy waiting for the pick behind him?
2- That fumble could have been avoided by ramsey by stepping up in the pocket. NO ONE ELSE was around. I will not blame ramsey for the sack, that was the OT's fault, but a pocket is made to enclose you, and he just stood there.

Fumble - You can't stop that fumble in 99% of the cases. He had too good a jump on the ball. Way to good.

I'm assuming you mean a fumble from the qb in the pocket?
He needs to be more aware, and see the sack coming. The good qb's see them coming and PROTECT THE BALL. Blame the O-Line, that's fine...but Ramsey did have something to do with it.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by skinsfan44
I agree that Ramsey should have been the MVP, but others were deserving also. Like you said, Hall was perfect last night, and Arrington was everywhere, but he didn't play "flawless ball". He got hit with an incrochment penalty when he tried to blitz once, but he was a beast last night.

No, the MVP was Ramsey.

I did forget about the incroachment penalty. Probably because he brought a smile to my face every other time he was around. He was amazing.
Just like it would have been easy to over look 2 turnovers if Ramsey had 3 or 4 td's.
The keep to any qb's success is to score more td's than have in turnovers, ramsey failed last night.

[Minnesota Mike]

I think the receiver deserves some of the responsibility on that INT. He should have been more aware of the defender and moved toward the ball at least a little, rather than allowing the d back to step in front of him.

[BigCountry]

Trotter deserves at least a mention. I called him out after the first drive and he made solid plays. Also led the team in tackles.

[PennSkinsFan]

Agreed BC. Trotter had a great game, so did Lavar. These Linebackers are playing with intensity. Kudos to our two safeties on nice play breakups as well.

[AZ#1SkinsFan]

Originally posted by jporterweb
Neither was his fault in my opinion. Why? Here's Why.

INT - The ball was not thrown with the usual zip, but thats not the issue. The issue was that Gardner turned and stop. If he would've moved to the ball, instead of waiting for it, that dude(can't remember who picked it) wouldn't have been able to come from behind Gardner to make the play.

I agree 100%, the interception, IMO was Gardner's fault. All receivers should come back to the ball. He could have at least knocked it down for an incompletion.

GIVE RAMSEY THE MVP. He played awesome in the first half. And came up with HUGE play after struggling for a bit. If the O-Line would have given him more time passing, maybe he would have passed for more yards. The O-Line will gel. Ramsey's timing with his receivers will come. The Offense will be awesome in a few weeks . . . mark my words.

[RichardBradley]

Brittney Spears... Those shorts were the MVP to me... And can someone tell me Aretha Franklin lip sung the National Anthem?

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

how come no one mentioned coles?? he was killing the jets by himself in the first half. IMO ramsey, betts, lavar, coles and hall should be co-co-co-co-co MVPs. but i say that the defense as a whole should get the MVP. they only gave up 157 total yards which is great. they allowed less then 60 rushing and after they settled down they controlled the game.

[jsarno]

I mentioned Coles in the first thread.

I still stand firm saying NO WAY should Ramsey gotten that MVP.

[hail2skins]

BTW, I heard on the radio that Ramsey didn't get a game ball. They didn't say who did though.

[tonedog12345]

ramsey will not be the only one on the horse trailer, they said they were also gonna add coles and hall

[tonedog12345]

george edwards got a game ball

[Chief Seeway]

Originally posted by Spence
All three linebackers.

Really?

All three LB's had nice run stops, but terrible pass coverage. The Jets' first drive made our LB's look like rooks with short conservative passes across the middle. One in particular, Trotter and Armstead rolled over to cover Martin which left Becht alone in the middle.

BTW, I think some of the key plays of the game were:
1. Bowen's pass deflection in the endzone.
2. Ohalete's pass deflection on third and long.
3. Trotter's run stop late in the game on third and short.

[tonedog12345]

jsarno rod gardner should have came back on the ball on the int and that fumble was samuels fought. John abraham ran right by him. It was a overall good performance if you look at the game again. And spurrier did play a bit conservative to maintain the lead in the second half

[skinswin'emALL]

MVP

Hall, does anyone think we would have won with whoever was kicking last year.

[hail2skins]

Originally posted by jporterweb
Neither was his fault in my opinion. Why? Here's Why.

INT - The ball was not thrown with the usual zip, but thats not the issue. The issue was that Gardner turned and stop. If he would've moved to the ball, instead of waiting for it, that dude(can't remember who picked it) wouldn't have been able to come from behind Gardner to make the play.


Fumble - You can't stop that fumble in 99% of the cases. He had too good a jump on the ball. Way to good.


I think it was just a bad decision to go Gardner because he was double-covered on the play. There was someone on top and below.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by tonedog12345
ramsey will not be the only one on the horse trailer, they said they were also gonna add coles and hall

I didn't hear that...that's a GREAT idea!

[jsarno]

Originally posted by tonedog12345
george edwards got a game ball

GOOD...no doubt he deserved it!!!

[SkinsKY]

Originally posted by skinswin'emALL
MVP

Hall, does anyone think we would have won with whoever was kicking last year.

Ramsey, does anyone think we would've won with whoever was passing last year? Hall did his job, who put him in the situation to get his points. That's the rub on kickers. THey rely almost exclusively on setup. Where would the game winner have been without a 24 yard scramble or a duck and throw 48yard pass, or 12 of 13 passing to start the game?

[skinswin'emALL]

Originally posted by SkinsKY
Ramsey, does anyone think we would've won with whoever was passing last year? Hall did his job, who put him in the situation to get his points. That's the rub on kickers. THey rely almost exclusively on setup. Where would the game winner have been without a 24 yard scramble or a duck and throw 48yard pass, or 12 of 13 passing to start the game?

True

One thing I'll say is you know it's a TEAM WIN when there are so many good arguements over naming a single MVP. If we didn't have every player mention in this thread we would have been spending even more time in the "disapointed" theads becasue we would have lost.

[Redbeard]

Originally posted by tonedog12345
george edwards got a game ball

Originally posted by jsarno
GOOD...no doubt he deserved it!!!

Edwards/the defensive unit as a whole

1) Held jets to 7 points.
2) Held 2 turnovers to fieldgoals. (saving offenses butt)
3) Held jets last possession to 1-2-3-punt, in final 5 minutes. (after offense killed a drive on back-to-back penalties)

Can't give it to anyone on offense because they offense almost gave it away & had to win it twice. Plus only 16 points.

[dj_stouty]

The Skins needed a clutch play to get into FG range...and Ramsey was the one to step up and do it...

MVP....!

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Jsarno, you're focusing way too much on the numbers here. You keep spouting out ratios and totals and averages, but the fact is that Ramsey sparked that offense in the first half and made the game-saving run. Yes, he faltered in the second half, but the fact that Spurrier went ultra-conservative didn't help. And blaming that fumble on him is ridiculous. The DE got an amazing jump and came around in a bout a second and a half. You can't possibly say "Oh, he should have stepped up in the pocket" on a blindside hit.

[WRSK1NS]

Definitly Ramsey gets the game ball. Without him and what he did Coles dosent catch 5 passes, McCants doesnt catch a TD pass, Hall doesnt get to kick a field goal or PAT. Madden was right!

[jsarno]

Originally posted by JoeDaSchmoe
The DE got an amazing jump and came around in a bout a second and a half. You can't possibly say "Oh, he should have stepped up in the pocket" on a blindside hit.

If the whole world saw the DE get an amazing jump...why didn't ramsey? I've said this before on another thread, the sack is not his fault...that is solely on sammuels...it might have been helped, but Samuels job is to protect...but that fumble is ramsey's. Maybe not 100%, bt it's his job to hold on to the damn ball.

Ramsey was in no way an MVP...but I can see how you might think so giving that he had that great run in the 4th.

I am spouting off numbers...and they are not lieing in this case...had he done even decent in the second half, this would be no contest...but he sucked in the second half.

[Redbeard]

I was dissappointed in the offensive line, which alowed 4 (should of been 5) sacks. And was one of our stronger units going into the season. Hopefully the o-line will imporve - plus vs. the jets defense is nothing to be ashamed of (especial DE & LBs).

As the game MVP, Ramsey had the two highlight plays & that's why he got it (the face on the board). But I'm with you, I don't think it was an MVP performance unless your taking into account he's a 2nd year guy in his 6th start (which they're not suppose to).

[Brokenstriker]

I'm not a fan of the entire MVP concept. Hall scored 10 points and did his job very well ... but 15 or so other guys were involved in getting into field goal position. Ramsey made the run to set up the winning FG ... but Bowen made the defensive play to keep the Jets from getting a TD ...

Bottom-line: Did any "player" do something so far beyond what is expected of their "position" that it should stand out and be recognized? Sure it happens occasionally ... a couple times a season across the entire league but most of the time I don't think so ...

50 yard FG ... nice but more and more expected of NFL kickers
10 for 11 in the first half ... nice but only the first half
pass defended in the end-zone ... nice but its in the job description

strictly subjective anyway

[hail2skins]

Originally posted by jsarno
If the whole world saw the DE get an amazing jump...why didn't ramsey? I've said this before on another thread, the sack is not his fault...that is solely on sammuels...it might have been helped, but Samuels job is to protect...but that fumble is ramsey's. Maybe not 100%, bt it's his job to hold on to the damn ball.

Ramsey was in no way an MVP...but I can see how you might think so giving that he had that great run in the 4th.

I am spouting off numbers...and they are not lieing in this case...had he done even decent in the second half, this would be no contest...but he sucked in the second half.

So this is all based on Ramsey. You don't give the Jets defense get any credit at all.

Yes, I agree with you that QB's should hold on to the ball, but if they're being rushed from their blind side and is in the position of throwing the ball with their arm cocked and the defender gets around and swats it out, I don't fault the QB for that. I credit the defensive player with a good play and chew out our olineman who allowed it to happen.

[Patrick]

Although Ramsey made several "KEY" plays in the game as did Coles, the RBs, and the "D" unit, it would seem to me, for this game, the MVP should go to the one who didn't make a mistake AND had a direct bearing on the score ........ HALL

[PennSkinsFan]

John Hall woudl be a great selection, 3-3, and a 50 yarder. We are usually into week 7 byu the tiemour FG kicker of the pass connected on three total Fgs.

I agree though that the overall game ball need to be with Patrick Ramsey. Fact is, the kid was suppossed to be erroneous, most said not expect much from him and that the Redskin would fall due to Ramsey not being ready. Fact is Ramsey was ready and Ramsey hit a low streak, but still performed to get the win. The kid is tough, he hung in there and deserves it.

This is good healthy discussion. From here on we will add a section each week. Right now int he forum we vote OFF, DEF, Game balls, but I will add Overalll Game MVP to the list.

[Patrick]

Originally posted by PennSkinsFan
This is good healthy discussion. From here on we will add a section each week. Right now int he forum we vote OFF, DEF, Game balls, but I will add Overalll Game MVP to the list.

Maybe a four part MVP poll:
1. Offense
2. Defense
3. Special Teams
4. Overall

[PennSkinsFan]

I think right now as it stand, we will do this, each week:

Vote on the Following Six:

Offensive Player of the Game
Defensive Player of the Game
Special Teams Player of the Game
Young Player fo the Game (2002 or 2003 rookies ONLY"
Play of the Game
and the new one...Overall MVP of the Game

These will be record as well each week so we can keep a running tally of receipients

[jsarno]

Originally posted by Brokenstriker


Bottom-line: Did any "player" do something so far beyond what is expected of their "position" that it should stand out and be recognized? Sure it happens occasionally ... a couple times a season across the entire league but most of the time I don't think so ...


You're right...most did what they get paid to do. Ramsey included. Hall included. (I just used hall because that position has sucked for so many years, and he won us the game with good kicks), but to answer your question "did any "player" do something so far beyond what is expected..." Yes, IMO, 1 did. Lavar Arrington.
How many of you can say a normal LB would have made the plays he made. He was everywhere, and that one armed tackle to Santana Moss preventing him from getting the first down was amazing. In my mind, after watching Arrington play, there is no doubt that he's the BEST LB in the game right now.

[jsarno]

Originally posted by hail2skins
So this is all based on Ramsey. You don't give the Jets defense get any credit at all.

Well, I do give Abraham credit...he had a GREAT jump. It's tough to defend that. The Jets D did play well...not great, but well. Their D is no way a top 5 d, but our offense made it look like a top 5 d in the second half.
I clearly feel fumbes are the responsibility of the person that fumbled, almost regardless of circumstance. There is ALWAYS someone in the "blind spot", a good QB is aware of his surroundings.
Like I said before, I'm really not blaming him 100%...but you have to give him some responsibility here.
Fact remains, Ramsey was hardly the MVP. Arrington and Hall are better choices.
I understand what all yu guys are saying about Ramsey. (being 6th start etc) I just don't think he was that impressive overall. 1st half was great, second he was AWFUL! (there is no sugar coating that)

Yes, I agree with you that QB's should hold on to the ball, but if they're being rushed from their blind side and is in the position of throwing the ball with their arm cocked and the defender gets around and swats it out, I don't fault the QB for that. I credit the defensive player with a good play and chew out our olineman who allowed it to happen.

Heck yeah you credit the defensive player...that was a great play for them.
You guys just can't keep defending turnovers. He made 2, both out of his own hands / decisions. He only had 1 td to speak of, and only 180 some odd yards passing. (this in a "supposedly" pass happy offense) He didn't kill us, and that's good, but he was about an average QB with two good plays. Are we soooo used to having mediocrity in the qb spot that we dilute ourselves into thinking that was a spectacular performance worthy of MVP?

When you look at Lavar for instance...he was EVERYWHERE, and the ONLY flaw you can pin on him was an offsides penalty which didn't even matter. Hall was FLAWLESS! You can't say that about Ramsey at all...that's all I'm trying to say.

[jsarno]

I'm a perfectionist guys (as some of you already know), so I'm sorry I'm being to analitical.

I haven't said anything, but I'm trying not to get overly excited about the D either. They played the geriatric (Vinny) lead Jets!!!! Don't listen to the Jets fans on this site, thier team is a last place team until Pennington comes back.
I keep telling myself to relax about the D, because at this point, it seemed SPECTACULAR!

[Brokenstriker]

I could go with Arrington as MVP ... or maybe Trotter (assuming that all the while I wasn't paying attention to him he was doing what he was supposed to) for that -4 yd stuff of Jordan

[jsarno]

Trotter did look good too. Our love our linebackers!!!