NFL strategy help

[cal_junior]

Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question. A friend and I were debating NFL passing games the other day, specifically how "set in stone" WR/TE/RB routes were after the snap.
In other words, I know there are times a WR/QB combo is making decisions based on what they each see from coverage, even after the play has started. But how many guys are doing that, and on how many plays?
Any insight/links would be appreciated.

[redskin_rich]

Players only change their routes on a broken play. On a hot route situation, there is usually a tip off from the QB to the WR beforehand.

[CNYSkinFan]

Players only change their routes on a broken play. On a hot route situation, there is usually a tip off from the QB to the WR beforehand.
well there are some read and react routes based on the Safety. We saw an example of that in the Cincy Ne game when the Safety backed off and Palmer thought the route would turn into a slant and Chad kept going to the back of the endzone resulting in a pick

[firehawk157]

Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question. A friend and I were debating NFL passing games the other day, specifically how "set in stone" WR/TE/RB routes were after the snap.
In other words, I know there are times a WR/QB combo is making decisions based on what they each see from coverage, even after the play has started. But how many guys are doing that, and on how many plays?
Any insight/links would be appreciated.
To give you an exact answer, we'd have to know what they were supposed to do to begin with. I think it's safe to say that after about 3-4 seconds on most routes, receivers have to try to break off their route and find open space. Otherwise, it's really dependent on the scheme the team is running. A timing one like the one the Skins employ, this will happen very rarely because JC throws to a spot and not a person. Other schemes I think other people can speak to more than I can.

I know there are certain schemes that based on which way the safety moves, which side the CB is on, if it's zone and so on, the receiver may have the option (based on the play) to pick from a couple of different routes. How often this happens, it's impossible to tell unless the QB or receiver (or anyone in the know) divulges the info. Otherwise, how do you know that wasn't the designed route?

[redskin_rich]

well there are some read and react routes based on the Safety. We saw an example of that in the Cincy Ne game when the Safety backed off and Palmer thought the route would turn into a slant and Chad kept going to the back of the endzone resulting in a pick
It would still be determined before the play though- if the Safety presses, run a ___, if the Safety drops back, run a ___ . The only time freelancing is involved is once the play is broken.

[shally]

well there are some read and react routes based on the Safety. We saw an example of that in the Cincy Ne game when the Safety backed off and Palmer thought the route would turn into a slant and Chad kept going to the back of the endzone resulting in a pick

you anticipated my answer.. there are option routes, based upon what the defense does

and we have seen JC shake his head a number of times after plays where the receiver was not where he anticipated he would be. so the AS offense does have those types of routes

[cal_junior]

We saw an example of that in the Cincy Ne game when the Safety backed off and Palmer thought the route would turn into a slant and Chad kept going to the back of the endzone resulting in a pick

That was actually the play that started the argument. If Chad was in a read-react mode, was he the only receiver? How many players on a given play have that kind of read-the-safety freedom and approx. how many of those kind of plays are in an NFL playbook.
I know, I know, it's stupid. But after a few Monday night beers it felt like we were debating the U.S. health care system.

[Hr fan]

you anticipated my answer.. there are option routes, based upon what the defense does

and we have seen JC shake his head a number of times after plays where the receiver was not where he anticipated he would be. so the AS offense does have those types of routes

And BL is famous for freelance routes...

[nicefellow31]

I remember reading an article on the old "Run and Shoot" offense that Warren Moon ran with the Houston Oilers. He said that pretty much all of their pass patterns were read and react. If either the receiver and the QBwere not on the same page, lookout!

[Meatsnack]

It depends on the offense - many don't untilize read and react routes - and the personnel - not all receivers or QBs are smart/quick enough to do it.

For offenses that use pre-snap reads to determine routes, it often extends also to protections and line shifts. That is, the rb may stay in to block if he reads the safety or corner a certain way, the center may change a line call based upon what he sees, etc.

As far as adjusting a route post-snap, by definition that is a broken play and everyone is ad-libbing. Maybe you would see the Falcons with Vick at Qb doing that just because no one could predict where Mike was going to be or what he would be doing. That is no longer a problem for the Falcons or Vick, as it turns out.

[Hr fan]

I remember reading an article on the old "Run and Shoot" offense that Warren Moon ran with the Houston Oilers. He said that pretty much all of their pass patterns were read and react. If the either the receiver and the OB were not on the same page, lookout!

Yup. So is the infamous in the NFL Sourrier offense. In the pros, however, the superior D talent means the QB must read much quicker. He has to know where his WRs are at - he can't hunt. Hence timing offenses like we use, where the QB reads who he thinks will be open before the WR breaks and throws to a spot.