Time to dump the "interchangeable backs" system?

[wewantdallas]

This bothered me in the offseason when I heard it was coming, the whole, "Clinton runs a couple, Betts runs a couple" thing.

It looks fine with the naked eye. Two 1,000 yard backs trading off carries, staying fresh. The only problem is, it doesn't work. At least not with us.

I have never liked this system, because it keeps EITHER back from getting into a groove, gaining momentum and building off that momentum.

In '05, Portis was the man, and he had a monster year, only getting stronger as the season wore on. In '06, when Betts was the man, he was incredible and was running with abandon.

Now, neither back is doing anything of note whatsoever except fumbling and getting stuffed behind the line on crucial fourth down plays. In fact, Portis has gone 10 games straight without 100 yards rushing. That is pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.

Portis showed flashes of his former greatness yesterday, with some great cut back running at times. But then? He comes out of the game, no momentum is built.

I say it's time to stop this crap. I say it's time to tell Portis, "Look, you're our guy. Expect to carry the ball until your tongue falls out and to carry it at least 25 times a game. And you WILL NOT take yourself out of the game unless you're injured. You don't come out 'till we say you come out."

The entire offense lacks an identity, and how could it NOT, with guys taking themselves out of the game, confusion over who should be in on this play or that play. If they're not going to adopt an identity, it's time to force one on them. Make Portis THE back and feed him. And if he goes down or can't handle it, then try it with Betts. We are far from a team that can throw to set up the run.

[redwolf1218]

Portis is a big wussy (and i wanted to type something else). he needs to get in shape. he is too important to this team to go out and suck oxygen every time he gets a little tired. it's ridiculous.

[JsMaViSd]

This bothered me in the offseason when I heard it was coming, the whole, "Clinton runs a couple, Betts runs a couple" thing.

It looks fine with the naked eye. Two 1,000 yard backs trading off carries, staying fresh. The only problem is, it doesn't work. At least not with us.

I have never liked this system, because it keeps EITHER back from getting into a groove, gaining momentum and building off that momentum.

In '05, Portis was the man, and he had a monster year, only getting stronger as the season wore on. In '06, when Betts was the man, he was incredible and was running with abandon.

Now, neither back is doing anything of note whatsoever except fumbling and getting stuffed behind the line on crucial fourth down plays. In fact, Portis has gone 10 games straight without 100 yards rushing. That is pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.

Portis showed flashes of his former greatness yesterday, with some great cut back running at times. But then? He comes out of the game, no momentum is built.

I say it's time to stop this crap. I say it's time to tell Portis, "Look, you're our guy. Expect to carry the ball until your tongue falls out and to carry it at least 25 times a game. And you WILL NOT take yourself out of the game unless you're injured. You don't come out 'till we say you come out."

The entire offense lacks an identity, and how could it NOT, with guys taking themselves out of the game, confusion over who should be in on this play or that play. If they're not going to adopt an identity, it's time to force one on them. Make Portis THE back and feed him. And if he goes down or can't handle it, then try it with Betts. We are far from a team that can throw to set up the run.

I agree with you, but in my eyes, it looks like Portis is pulling himself out the game constantly because he is not in football shape

he looks worn down when he runs 2 times in a row, he starts limping off the field, and then when they interview him during the week, he says there not calling his number. It seems like BS in my eyes.

They need to MAKE him practice all week, get him and the rest of this team into conditioning more and pound the damn ball

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Right now we have a team that says it is committed to "Redskins" football, yet has NEVER handed off to its starting RB more than 20 times in one game this season.
Then we have a backup RB, who our coaches say is interchangeable with our starter, that is looking absolutely horrible this year. I think he has an average of under 3 yards per carry, and could not find the end-zone if he were on the field by himself.
Then we have a starting RB (and a supposed "star"), who has rushed for 100 yards just once in the past two seasons, and seems either completely out of shape, injured, or just has fun taking himself out of games whenever he wants.
Our running game is a mess. Whatever we are doing is definitely not working, and we should scrap it and try something else.

Oh, and wanna talk about big-play ability? How's this for a stat: So far, our longest run of the year is by none other than our QB. Jason Campbell. That's right. His longest run, a whopping 20 yards, is our longest run of the year.

[JsMaViSd]

Right now we have a team that says it is committed to "Redskins" football, yet has NEVER handed off to its starting RB more than 20 times in one game this season.
Then we have a backup RB, who our coaches say is interchangeable with our starter, that is looking absolutely horrible this year. I think he has an average of under 3 yards per carry, and could not find the end-zone if he were on the field by himself.
Then we have a starting RB (and a supposed "star"), who has rushed for 100 yards just once in the past two seasons, and seems either completely out of shape, injured, or just has fun taking himself out of games whenever he wants.
Our running game is a mess. Whatever we are doing is definitely not working, and we should scrap it and try something else.

Oh, and wanna talk about big-play ability? How's this for a stat: So far, our longest run of the year is by none other than our QB. Jason Campbell. That's right. His longest run, a whopping 20 yards, is our longest run of the year.

this i did not expect, but good point

its only a matter of time till we hear every analyst on our games say that stat 16 times a game and make me mute my beloved redskins football game

[redskin_rich]

I wouldn't mind it if they were alternating series but this merry-go-round between plays is pathetic and absolutely making it nearly impossible to get into a rhythm. Every time Portis runs for more than 3 yards, he has to come off the field. Betts is obviously a runner who needs multiple carries to get going, so this coming in for a play crap isn't working for him either. I really don't care at this point which back it is but stick with one during a series.

Portis is stealing his money at this point and he is proving that he can't be missing training camp, preseason and practice and just hit the ground running. His conditioning sucks, he acts hurt every other play, his hands are suddenly bad. I'm really getting tired of his whole act. I want football players, not drama queens on this team.
Sorry for the rant.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

this i did not expect, but good point

its only a matter of time till we hear every analyst on our games say that stat 16 times a game and make me mute my beloved redskins football game
Well, here's another equally depressing stat that I posted earlier, regarding the absence of big plays in the running game: Portis, if you take away his first ever run with us, has as many 20+ ard runs in his 4 seasons here as he did in just his last season in Denver.
Watching Peterson yesterday made me wanna cry.

[nicefellow31]

This bothered me in the offseason when I heard it was coming, the whole, "Clinton runs a couple, Betts runs a couple" thing.

It looks fine with the naked eye. Two 1,000 yard backs trading off carries, staying fresh. The only problem is, it doesn't work. At least not with us.

I have never liked this system, because it keeps EITHER back from getting into a groove, gaining momentum and building off that momentum.

In '05, Portis was the man, and he had a monster year, only getting stronger as the season wore on. In '06, when Betts was the man, he was incredible and was running with abandon.

Now, neither back is doing anything of note whatsoever except fumbling and getting stuffed behind the line on crucial fourth down plays. In fact, Portis has gone 10 games straight without 100 yards rushing. That is pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.

Portis showed flashes of his former greatness yesterday, with some great cut back running at times. But then? He comes out of the game, no momentum is built.

I say it's time to stop this crap. I say it's time to tell Portis, "Look, you're our guy. Expect to carry the ball until your tongue falls out and to carry it at least 25 times a game. And you WILL NOT take yourself out of the game unless you're injured. You don't come out 'till we say you come out."

The entire offense lacks an identity, and how could it NOT, with guys taking themselves out of the game, confusion over who should be in on this play or that play. If they're not going to adopt an identity, it's time to force one on them. Make Portis THE back and feed him. And if he goes down or can't handle it, then try it with Betts. We are far from a team that can throw to set up the run.

I agree with you. Once the RB gets in a grove, he has got to keep running.

[Dolla Bill]

I'm beginning to wonder is it time to dump the backs? Forget interchangeable, Portis is not right, Betts is only as good as the line in front of him. If that's the issue, then it shouldn't matter who is our running back. Our OL is what makes the running game go, not the RB's.

[wewantdallas]

I just don't see the same fire on the offensive side of the ball as I do on defense. There is no confidence, and, as I said before, no identity.

I especially don't sense a fire coming from Portis. He and Moss both have lost something mentally. I don't know if you'd call it "going soft" or what, but they both better find what they've lost quickly or our season is going to be done almost as quickly.

[Keino]

This bothered me in the offseason when I heard it was coming, the whole, "Clinton runs a couple, Betts runs a couple" thing.

It looks fine with the naked eye. Two 1,000 yard backs trading off carries, staying fresh. The only problem is, it doesn't work. At least not with us.

I have never liked this system, because it keeps EITHER back from getting into a groove, gaining momentum and building off that momentum.

In '05, Portis was the man, and he had a monster year, only getting stronger as the season wore on. In '06, when Betts was the man, he was incredible and was running with abandon.

Now, neither back is doing anything of note whatsoever except fumbling and getting stuffed behind the line on crucial fourth down plays. In fact, Portis has gone 10 games straight without 100 yards rushing. That is pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.

Portis showed flashes of his former greatness yesterday, with some great cut back running at times. But then? He comes out of the game, no momentum is built.

I say it's time to stop this crap. I say it's time to tell Portis, "Look, you're our guy. Expect to carry the ball until your tongue falls out and to carry it at least 25 times a game. And you WILL NOT take yourself out of the game unless you're injured. You don't come out 'till we say you come out."

The entire offense lacks an identity, and how could it NOT, with guys taking themselves out of the game, confusion over who should be in on this play or that play. If they're not going to adopt an identity, it's time to force one on them. Make Portis THE back and feed him. And if he goes down or can't handle it, then try it with Betts. We are far from a team that can throw to set up the run.

Yes.

[hail2skins]

I didn't like this arrangement from the beginning and all your points are good ones. However, don't forget that Portis does what he wants to do. I've heard players interviewed say it. Gibbs for some reason gives this him card blanche.

[CNYSkinFan]

Yes.
LMAO!!

that about says it

[redskin_rich]

We should start running a no huddle offense, so that Portis can't take himself out and the coaches can't screw up the clock management.

[Biggie]

I wouldn't mind it if they were alternating series but this merry-go-round between plays is pathetic and absolutely making it nearly impossible to get into a rhythm. Every time Portis runs for more than 3 yards, he has to come off the field. Betts is obviously a runner who needs multiple carries to get going, so this coming in for a play crap isn't working for him either. I really don't care at this point which back it is but stick with one during a series.

Portis is stealing his money at this point and he is proving that he can't be missing training camp, preseason and practice and just hit the ground running. His conditioning sucks, he acts hurt every other play, his hands are suddenly bad. I'm really getting tired of his whole act. I want football players, not drama queens on this team.
Sorry for the rant.
You're preaching to the choir, man.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I didn't like this arrangement from the beginning and all your points are good ones. However, don't forget that Portis does what he wants to do. I've heard players interviewed say it. Gibbs for some reason gives this him card blanche.
Is there some reason for this? Because, contrary to what Portis himself and some people in Redskins Park might think, Portis is current not an elite player that can decide what to do and when to do it.

[skinsfan45]

I wouldn't mind it if they were alternating series but this merry-go-round between plays is pathetic and absolutely making it nearly impossible to get into a rhythm. Every time Portis runs for more than 3 yards, he has to come off the field. Betts is obviously a runner who needs multiple carries to get going, so this coming in for a play crap isn't working for him either. I really don't care at this point which back it is but stick with one during a series.

Portis is stealing his money at this point and he is proving that he can't be missing training camp, preseason and practice and just hit the ground running. His conditioning sucks, he acts hurt every other play, his hands are suddenly bad. I'm really getting tired of his whole act. I want football players, not drama queens on this team.
Sorry for the rant.
rant is appropriate and accurate- at this point we do have seem to have a drama queen in CP - as much as i have loved watching him in the past, it appears that he is running a game on this whole team - i've heard all his talking about how all he wants is for the Skins to win and he wants to contribute to wins -- well, prove it budddy because right now your diva act is ticking me off --- get your a** in football shape and contribute in a way that earns u the spot of #1 RB - Gibbs or AC needs to lay the law down on this - this inmate running the asylum is STUPID!!! its hurting the team in terms of winning and morale - i'm sure some of those other guys would love to say "hey, i'm tired, replace while i rest" -- but they don't because they put the team ahead of themselves -- suck it up CP, back up what u say is your priority -- Betts gets the short end with this crap too, how can anyone expect him to go in cold and produce? ain't gonna happen and its not on him! what did he do for us last year when he was in consistently, he produced thats what! those last 7 games he produced like a starting RB -- if CP is not willing to buckle down and produce, then i'm sure LB is! what exactly do you think Betts is feeling watching this? shame on the coaches for putting up with this!!this is professional football folks, make the grade or get off the field

[wewantdallas]

Is there some reason for this? Because, contrary to what Portis himself and some people in Redskins Park might think, Portis is current not an elite player that can decide what to do and when to do it.

You know, people give Brian Mitchell a lot of grief (and sometimes rightly so, imo), but I think he's been right on the money lately with his criticism of this practice by Portis. Mitchell was saying today how this whole "taking yourself out of the game" thing is just unheard of with athletes who are hungry and fired up to win. It also used to be unheard of on a Joe Gibbs team. He of course went back to the old school examples of the guys he played with, guys who ran the ball over and over again and would've never wanted to be taken out of a game while developing a rhythm. Portis seems to RELISH coming out of the game at times.

The thing with Portis, though, is that he DID show tremendous leadership for our team in '05, so I know he has it in him, but I have no idea what has happened between now and then with this guy's attitude and play.

[thickskin]

didn't portis complain in the offseason that he should have a 100 speed rating in madden? that's hilarious. that guy is slow. in all honesty--i've been training for a triathlon-- i think i'm faster than portis is right now. his rumble and grumble has been replaced by stumble and fumble. i mean, he's not even as good as julius jones or brandon jacobs, and marion jones and westbrook make him look like a service academy player. is we weren't so kleenex on the oline, i'd say we ought to take a rb fairly high in the draft, and let clinton get back to his fulltime job at eastern motors.

[colkurtz]

Other Rbs take themselves out when they are hurt; CP takes himself out when he is tired - which means a lot. Our OL injuries have hurt our running game, but when Clinton has had a good hole he really hasn't been able to exploit it.

[akhhorus]

I'd play Rock or Mason over Betts now. I made this point in my column threead, but Betts is doing NOTHING out there, so Portis has to try and grind out yards that Betts should be doing. Something he's not up for(he's now a slasher).

[youngestson]

I have never been a big fan of the two backs sharing the load. RB is a position that depends on tempo and reps, and right now this team has neither on the offense.

If we want to be totally fair, missing 3/5s of our O-line has not helped the situation either, but if Portis is comming off the field of his own volition then Betts goes in and stays in, and Clinton can pass a plesent afternoon chatting up Greg Williams.

I have been a big supporter of Clinton Portis, and still feel he has an amazing amount of talent to contribute to this team, but he has to PLAY on a consistant basis.

Remember three weeks ago when we were all wondering why Ladell was in the back field when we had 4th and goal against the Giants? Seems a long time ago.

[colkurtz]

I'd play Rock or Mason over Betts now. I made this point in my column threead, but Betts is doing NOTHING out there, so Portis has to try and grind out yards that Betts should be doing. Something he's not up for(he's now a slasher).

I was thinking they should consider bringing in Mason over Betts. At least the kid will play with passion, which is something this running game really lacks.

[whistleandthumb]

I'd play Rock or Mason over Betts now. I made this point in my column threead, but Betts is doing NOTHING out there, so Portis has to try and grind out yards that Betts should be doing. Something he's not up for(he's now a slasher).
I wouldn't say NOTHING. He's been great on screen passes - better than Portis has been, and this team seems to run the screen pretty well, so that's a benefit to having him in the game.

The problem is that you can't just bring him in to run screen passes - he's going to have to serve more of a purpose.

[dj_stouty]

I wouldn't say NOTHING. He's been great on screen passes - better than Portis has been, and this team seems to run the screen pretty well, so that's a benefit to having him in the game.

The problem is that you can't just bring him in to run screen passes - he's going to have to serve more of a purpose.

The problem is the fact that Betts simply can't block the pass rush....so its point less to put him in on passing downs unless he is running a specified route. So...if we know Betts need to get into a rythym to be successful...and if we know he is basically only better at RB screens...and we know the guy can't pass block; then he really is minimizing his usefullness to the team.

I say keep handing the ball off to Sellers. It seemed to work the past two weeks.

[Keino]

I, frankly, would be trying to trade Betts right now. But as you know DJ, I've never been all that high on him.

[lakeskin]

I, frankly, would be trying to trade Betts right now. But as you know DJ, I've never been all that high on him.

I was thinking the same thing yesterday and how Tampa is in desperate need of a RB.

[akhhorus]

I wouldn't say NOTHING. He's been great on screen passes - better than Portis has been, and this team seems to run the screen pretty well, so that's a benefit to having him in the game.

The problem is that you can't just bring him in to run screen passes - he's going to have to serve more of a purpose.

You're right. He has been effective as a pass catcher, but his rushing has been nothing but awful. The two back system only works if the 2nd back can run the ball, and Betts isn't getting that part done.

[wewantdallas]

I wouldn't say NOTHING. He's been great on screen passes - better than Portis has been, and this team seems to run the screen pretty well, so that's a benefit to having him in the game.

I think Betts is getting treated too harshly here as well. The entire offense is struggling, and you can't discount what this guy did for us last year.

The thing is, though, this goes back to my original point. Last year, Betts was "THE" guy, and he was run predominantly straight up the gut. He hit the hole like a man possessed and he gained an incredible amount of yards in a short time. Now, he is being run outside quite a bit, and he seems useless in that role.

I think BOTH backs are being held back by this system. I think Portis, who is clearly the more versatile back and the better athlete, needs to be named THE guy from this point out, and Betts needs to go back to the backup role. If Portis goes down, then Betts re-assumes the role he had last year.

I saw enough of Cartwright running the ball under Spurrier. Just as Betts is no CP, Cartwright is no Betts.

[shally]

honestly, i dont think portis is a 20 carry a game back now.. he is breaking down
betts ? no way. sorry i dont think he is a starter. good on screens or some passes and that is it
rock ? nope

they might as well see what fresh legs like mason can bring, but right now i dont see a franchise back on the roster

[James F. Quinn]

As long as the OL is playing second and third stringers on the right and we can only run efectively to the left, the defense will just overload that way to stop the run.

That stacks the deck against Portis, Betts, and would against LT, Jim Brown, or Broncho Nagurski.

Aikman kept saying that Portis doesn't look like the same runner as before. He is trying to run on bad knees, is still taking and dealing out great punishment, and will be worn out by midseason.

All the shots being taken at CP in here by frustrated fans are understandable, but unfair, IMHO.

The guy is a warrior, a great blocker, and gives himself up play after play. Keep him in until he wears down? Force him to play six more games during the preseason? Ok, but when he does get worn or broken down, this team will go nowhere, as the OL is presently constituted.

[akhhorus]

I think Betts is getting treated too harshly here as well. The entire offense is struggling, and you can't discount what this guy did for us last year.


I would agree, but Betts was playing for a contract last year. And he has his big(ish) deal, and has reverted back to the hesitating, slow back he was beforehand. He has 41 carries for 114 yards. Thats pathetic.

[shally]

I would agree, but Betts was playing for a contract last year. And he has his big(ish) deal, and has reverted back to the hesitating, slow back he was beforehand. He has 41 carries for 114 yards. Thats pathetic.


sideways.. always running sideways...he is not fast enough to get around the corner..
2 yards per carry says it all

[esmith1790]

Other Rbs take themselves out when they are hurt; CP takes himself out when he is tired - which means a lot. Our OL injuries have hurt our running game, but when Clinton has had a good hole he really hasn't been able to exploit it.



Better not let Parcells coach him then.LOL Parcells would run him into the ground and not let him come out of the game. Hell Parcells would run the ball 8 times in a row just to prove his point.


They need to modify the offense into more of a passing offense with short throws to the RB out the backfield more. Almost give up on the run, but use the short passes instead of the run.

[firehawk157]

Portis' contract takes a huge jump next season, I really don't think it's unthinkable that he gets traded. It's clear the offense needs an overhaul. Let Saunders bring in guys he wants. For anyone who advocates Mason, not going to happen. He's 4th on the depth chart, so the only way he gets the call is if Portis and Betts goes out with an injury and then he'll spell Cartwright. Something needs to be done though, we can't play a game with Pucillo at center, Fabini at RG and Wade at RT.

[whistleandthumb]

Portis' contract takes a huge jump next season, I really don't think it's unthinkable that he gets traded. It's clear the offense needs an overhaul. Let Saunders bring in guys he wants. For anyone who advocates Mason, not going to happen. He's 4th on the depth chart, so the only way he gets the call is if Portis and Betts goes out with an injury and then he'll spell Cartwright. Something needs to be done though, we can't play a game with Pucillo at center, Fabini at RG and Wade at RT.
What would we trade CP for? I don't think he gets us more than a 5th round pick... at best.

Running backs are too easy to come by nowadays. Besides, I think if we commit to using CP as our featured back, he'll get going just fine. But we HAVE to commit to him being "the guy." This 15-20 touches/game stuff isn't going to work.

[akhhorus]

Portis' contract takes a huge jump next season, I really don't think it's unthinkable that he gets traded. It's clear the offense needs an overhaul. Let Saunders bring in guys he wants. For anyone who advocates Mason, not going to happen. He's 4th on the depth chart, so the only way he gets the call is if Portis and Betts goes out with an injury and then he'll spell Cartwright. Something needs to be done though, we can't play a game with Pucillo at center, Fabini at RG and Wade at RT.

Its not unthinkable, but they won't do it unless:
1-They get 125 cents on the dollar(say 3 first day picks or a first rounder and a young player)
2-They have a young RB who has apparent skills to replace Portis' production lined up. Say Mike Turner or a deal up for Darren McFadden.

[smoak]

My POV is that the NFL is now a "two back league". I just think we have two guys not getting it done. One b/c he appears to be out of shape and one b/c he has shown next to no skill.

Time to step up fellas.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

One more thing: I think all this talk by Gibbs about the two being interchangeable is just that: talk. When you see what actually happens on the field, you see that Betts has less than half the attempts that Portis has. Now, why he is in on the critical downs in a whole different story, but still, it's not like they are splitting carries 50/50.

[wewantdallas]

I would agree, but Betts was playing for a contract last year. And he has his big(ish) deal, and has reverted back to the hesitating, slow back he was beforehand. He has 41 carries for 114 yards. Thats pathetic.

That IS pathetic.

But I don't buy the "he was playing for his contract" argument for past success, because, as many analysts were saying last year, he signed a deal very quickly with us when he could've EASILY taken that success he had and used it to test other, more lucrative waters. He hardly held the FO's feet to the fire in getting his deal done, and he probably could have done so. Betts has always been a team player.

I think his success was due to the fact that Gibbs turned the second half of last season into an old school, run it up the gut team. Betts was fed the ball, knew he was the guy, and he excelled at what he was being asked to do. I don't think he's ever been in that position before, running that type of bruising offense. He's obviously much more suited to that than the finesse plays that Saunders likes running. In fact, he tends to suck at those royally.

I think he can contribute a lot to the team if used properly. Personally, I much prefer the bruising offensive philosophy I saw at the tail end of last year and through pretty much all of '05. I would welcome a return to it.

But if they're not going to make that compromise, then yeah, I'd have to agree in the long run that Betts is not suited for this team's offense the way it's currently being run.

[smoak]

Its not unthinkable, but they won't do it unless:
1-They get 125 cents on the dollar(say 3 first day picks or a first rounder and a young player)
2-They have a young RB who has apparent skills to replace Portis' production lined up. Say Mike Turner or a deal up for Darren McFadden.

Just out of curiosity, if you were a GM, what would you offer for Portis?

Me? Maybe a third or fourth rounder... And that is if I was hitting the Scotch heavy that day.

[akhhorus]

Just out of curiosity, if you were a GM, what would you offer for Portis?

Me? Maybe a third or fourth rounder... And that is if I was hitting the Scotch heavy that day.

Hmm...if I was in charge of a team like Tampa(if Cadillac is done), Houston, Jets, Detroit, etc..who needed a RB, I would probably offer a 2nd and a conditional pick the following year. Or make a conditional trade on Portis' performance in 08. An established RB is hard to find.

But, I don't think we're trading him.

[smoak]

Hmm...if I was in charge of a team like Tampa(if Cadillac is done), Houston, Jets, Detroit, etc..who needed a RB, I would probably offer a 2nd and a conditional pick the following year. Or make a conditional trade on Portis' performance in 08. An established RB is hard to find.

But, I don't think we're trading him.


Oh neither do I. I'm just curious...

If I interpret your thoughts correctly, I believe we're in the same boat in that Portis would be an option if we were "bent over a barrel", but if not, his value is rather limited for a starting RB.

[akhhorus]

Oh neither do I. I'm just curious...

If I interpret your thoughts correctly, I believe we're in the same boat in that Portis would be an option if we were "bent over a barrel", but if not, his value is rather limited for a starting RB.

Its a pretty thin market for free agent Rbs after Turner. If you were choosing between Jamal Lewis(who I think we should sign as a power back to run in Betts' role), Julius Jones or dealing for Portis, I would probably deal for Portis.

[smoak]

Its a pretty thin market for free agent Rbs after Turner. If you were choosing between Jamal Lewis(who I think we should sign as a power back to run in Betts' role), Julius Jones or dealing for Portis, I would probably deal for Portis.

Good point (although I don't care for Lewis).

[akhhorus]

Good point (although I don't care for Lewis).

I honestly think he would be a perfect compliment to Portis. Portis looks ineffective in the ISO and draws right now--but looks very effective on the sweeps, traps and pulls. Having Lewis would allow the skins to mix things up. Betts had a nice 2006, but he really isn't a change of pace to Portis, and thats what they've needed to make the 2 back system work.

[Skins7ny]

I wouldn't mind it if they were alternating series but this merry-go-round between plays is pathetic and absolutely making it nearly impossible to get into a rhythm. Every time Portis runs for more than 3 yards, he has to come off the field. Betts is obviously a runner who needs multiple carries to get going, so this coming in for a play crap isn't working for him either. I really don't care at this point which back it is but stick with one during a series.

Portis is stealing his money at this point and he is proving that he can't be missing training camp, preseason and practice and just hit the ground running. His conditioning sucks, he acts hurt every other play, his hands are suddenly bad. I'm really getting tired of his whole act. I want football players, not drama queens on this team.Sorry for the rant.
Amen, brother! As I have pointed out before, Portis has a history of unRedskinlike behavior since he got to this team. Nothing horrible (like getting arrested), but stuff I wish he hadn't done. I respect his abilities and his efforts with and without the ball in his hands. I respect, even admire, his toughness on the field. But I never thought he was a good fit for us, and good RBs are too easy to find and their shelf-livest too short to have invested so much in him, both in terms of salary and what it took to acquire him in trade. There is no questions that he has been severely overpaid and overhyped, he has not been an upper-tier RB here for quite some time. His body appears to be breaking down, which is why no one is going to give us any significant value in return for him. Although I would definitely be calling Green Bay and Tampa Bay (and maybe Houston as well) to see if I can get them to overpay for Clinton in the hopes of making a big playoff run. I would then promote Mason and give Betts the ball for our big playoff run. Betts proved last year that he can thrive as "the man", and I am not convinced that he has lost it in the off-season.

That said, it may not matter if we lose Rabach for any length of time.
We also need Thomas back in December.

I'd play Rock or Mason over Betts now. I made this point in my column threead, but Betts is doing NOTHING out there, so Portis has to try and grind out yards that Betts should be doing. Something he's not up for(he's now a slasher).

It is infuriating to see you making this argument, given your defenses of Clinton and the Bailey trade in the past. According to your numerous posts, Clinton is one of the elite backs in the league and remained so after the trade. He should be able to pick up yards grinding inside as well as ripping off some long runs outside. Why is he now a slasher? Because of chronic injuries? That is why you don't trade an upper-echelon CB with a shelf-life of 10-15 years for a smallish RB that has a shelf-life of 5 or 6 years. And you sure as heck don't throw in a 2nd-rounder to "even" out the deal!

Portis' contract takes a huge jump next season, I really don't think it's unthinkable that he gets traded. It's clear the offense needs an overhaul. Let Saunders bring in guys he wants. For anyone who advocates Mason, not going to happen. He's 4th on the depth chart, so the only way he gets the call is if Portis and Betts goes out with an injury and then he'll spell Cartwright. Something needs to be done though, we can't play a game with Pucillo at center, Fabini at RG and Wade at RT.

He may not be here unless he agrees to take less. I think it is clear that of the main men in charge, only Gibbs has been willing to put up with Clinton's crap. Saunders has always thought it is ridiculous that Clinton can take himself out, and GW let everyone know what he thought of Clinton yesterday on the sidelines.

We desperately need to upgrade our interior line depth next year. A young stud OG usually can be obtained in rounds 2 and 3, I hope we go in that direction.

[akhhorus]

That is a ridiculous argument, given your defenses of Clinton in the past. According to your numerous posts defending him, Clinton should be able to pick up yards grinding inside as well as ripping off some long runs outside. Why is he now a slasher? Because of chronic injuries? That is why you don't trade an upper-echelon CB with a shelf-life of 10-15 years for a smallish RB that has a shelf-life of 5 or 6 years. And you sure as heck don't throw in a 2nd-rounder to "even" out the deal!

:rolleyes: Shocker, why did I know you wouldn't miss another opportunity to dump on the Portis deal(Bailey btw, has looked simply awful and old this year for Denver and teams know it). I don't think it has to do with injuries, since he clearly can still physically run to the outside. I think it has a lot to do with Thomas being on the shelf. Portis looked fine on the offtackles in the Miami and Philly games(until Thomas went out), but since then, he's struggled going into the tackle box. But I'm sure you'll respond with "Well, he's useless since he has to have good blockers to be a good RB" nonsense.

[dj_stouty]

Part of the problem with our running game has been the fact that Thomas and Jansen are out. We have been patchwork on the O-line all season and it must have some sort of effect on Portis/Betts. Hell...at one point they almost had to start a d-lineman at tackle!

I agree with the person who said Betts needs several reps to get into a rythym. Unfortunately in this offense, that will probably never happen unless Portis goes down. Plus, the Caveman is getting reps now, so there are fewer carries to go around. I think Betts is a serviceable running back...not great at the goaline, but decent enough to carve out 4ypc between the 20s. But he clearly isn't suited for limited play; although I'm not sure Gibbs is aware of this.

I'm perfectly happy with Clinton Portis as our RB. The guy may go to the sidelines prematurely, but he gives 110% on every play. I forget the exact play yesterday...but on one of the turnovers Portis was running to the ball carrier and really tried to smack him in hopes of popping the ball loose. It was a much better hit than the one Rogers put on Brandon Lee. ;) I was told over and over again that Portis would never put up 1,500 yards outside Denver, let alone in the physical NFCE and he proved everyone wrong. Not only did he notch 1,500 yards in DC, but he broke the franchise rushing record to boot. The guy is great...and I'll bet around 20 NFL teams would trade their top RB straight up for him right now.

[silverspring]

I wouldn't mind it if they were alternating series but this merry-go-round between plays is pathetic and absolutely making it nearly impossible to get into a rhythm. Every time Portis runs for more than 3 yards, he has to come off the field. Betts is obviously a runner who needs multiple carries to get going, so this coming in for a play crap isn't working for him either. I really don't care at this point which back it is but stick with one during a series.

Portis is stealing his money at this point and he is proving that he can't be missing training camp, preseason and practice and just hit the ground running. His conditioning sucks, he acts hurt every other play, his hands are suddenly bad. I'm really getting tired of his whole act. I want football players, not drama queens on this team.
Sorry for the rant.

agreed. At this point Portis' level of poor ethic is showing on the field. I wonder if it is just a couple players or is it that entire offense lacks discipline. Either way at 5 games into the season if you are not in football shape you are doing something real wrong. These guys are professionals and should never be out of shape so getting into football shape should be real easy. Portis obviously thinks he can get by on talent alone and clearly he can't. Practice does make a difference.
It is funny i thought lavar was victimized because he expected the special treatment he received pre-gibbs and now gibb's own guys are getting it.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Part of the problem with our running game has been the fact that Thomas and Jansen are out. We have been patchwork on the O-line all season and it must have some sort of effect on Portis/Betts. Hell...at one point they almost had to start a d-lineman at tackle!

I agree with the person who said Betts needs several reps to get into a rythym. Unfortunately in this offense, that will probably never happen unless Portis goes down. Plus, the Caveman is getting reps now, so there are fewer carries to go around. I think Betts is a serviceable running back...not great at the goaline, but decent enough to carve out 4ypc between the 20s. But he clearly isn't suited for limited play; although I'm not sure Gibbs is aware of this.

I'm perfectly happy with Clinton Portis as our RB. The guy may go to the sidelines prematurely, but he gives 110% on every play. I forget the exact play yesterday...but on one of the turnovers Portis was running to the ball carrier and really tried to smack him in hopes of popping the ball loose. It was a much better hit than the one Rogers put on Brandon Lee. ;) I was told over and over again that Portis would never put up 1,500 yards outside Denver, let alone in the physical NFCE and he proved everyone wrong. Not only did he notch 1,500 yards in DC, but he broke the franchise rushing record to boot. The guy is great...and I'll bet around 20 NFL teams would trade their top RB straight up for him right now.
That means that around 11 NFL teams would not. That doesn't really mean that he is great..just that he is above average. My hopes for CP is that around 27-28 teams would trade their top RB straight up for him. Unfortunately, that is nowhere near the case right now.

[akhhorus]

That means that around 11 NFL teams would not. That doesn't really mean that he is great..just that he is above average. My hopes for CP is that around 27-28 teams would trade their top RB straight up for him. Unfortunately, that is nowhere near the case right now.

The only RBs I wouldn't trade straight up for him right now would be Westbrook(Close though), BLT, Peterson, Ronnie Brown, Addai and thats about it.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

As long as the OL is playing second and third stringers on the right and we can only run efectively to the left, the defense will just overload that way to stop the run.

That stacks the deck against Portis, Betts, and would against LT, Jim Brown, or Broncho Nagurski.

Aikman kept saying that Portis doesn't look like the same runner as before. He is trying to run on bad knees, is still taking and dealing out great punishment, and will be worn out by midseason.

All the shots being taken at CP in here by frustrated fans are understandable, but unfair, IMHO.

The guy is a warrior, a great blocker, and gives himself up play after play. Keep him in until he wears down? Force him to play six more games during the preseason? Ok, but when he does get worn or broken down, this team will go nowhere, as the OL is presently constituted.
i agree with this post. the right side of the OL being out is no helping either back right now. portis might not look like the same guy he has been in the past, but he is still our best back. i like having betts as the back up in the case that CP goes down with an injury, but the ratio of carries should be like 5:1/4:2 imo. that doesn't include getting betts a few passes out of the backfield.

[shally]

i agree with this post. the right side of the OL being out is no helping either back right now. portis might not look like the same guy he has been in the past, but he is still our best back. i like having betts as the back up in the case that CP goes down with an injury, but the ratio of carries should be like 5:1/4:2 imo. that doesn't include getting betts a few passes out of the backfield.


i dont think the coaches have bought into that concept..and i dont think that portis fumbling has helped it either..

[SpicyMcHaggis]

The only RBs I wouldn't trade straight up for him right now would be Westbrook(Close though), BLT, Peterson, Ronnie Brown, Addai and thats about it.
I would add Larry Johnson, Stephen Jackson, Willie Parker (same age, half the mileage), take away the Close from Westbrook, and possibly Maroney and Bush, although I'd want to wait until the end of the season for those two.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

i agree with this post. the right side of the OL being out is no helping either back right now. portis might not look like the same guy he has been in the past, but he is still our best back. i like having betts as the back up in the case that CP goes down with an injury, but the ratio of carries should be like 5:1/4:2 imo. that doesn't include getting betts a few passes out of the backfield.
It's almost exactly that.

[dj_stouty]

That means that around 11 NFL teams would not. That doesn't really mean that he is great..just that he is above average. My hopes for CP is that around 27-28 teams would trade their top RB straight up for him. Unfortunately, that is nowhere near the case right now.

Well, I don't think all 11 of those RBs are better than Portis; I was just stating that they probably would'nt swap RBs for him. Prime example; Buffalo would probably stick with Marshawn Lynch for no other reason than he is a rookie first rounder and is younger than Portis. They have a lot of confidence in him, which would outweigh trading for Portis who already has 5 seasons under his belt. That doesn't make Marshawn better than Portis.

FWIW, I think Portis is a top 6-7 RB. That makes him great in my book.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Well, I don't think all 11 of those RBs are better than Portis; I was just stating that they probably would'nt swap RBs for him. Prime example; Buffalo would probably stick with Marshawn Lynch for no other reason than he is a rookie first rounder and is younger than Portis. They have a lot of confidence in him, which would outweigh trading for Portis who already has 5 seasons under his belt. That doesn't make Marshawn better than Portis.

FWIW, I think Portis is a top 6-7 RB. That makes him great in my book.
After 2005, I had him absolutely in the top 3-5. After 2006, I was willing to keep him in the top 5, because I didn't want to penalize him for injuries. But after these first 5 games, I'm really starting to think he has slid down to the bottom of the top 10. Which is still very good, but certainly doesn't warrant the kind of contract that he has.

[akhhorus]

I would add Larry Johnson, Stephen Jackson, Willie Parker (same age, half the mileage), take away the Close from Westbrook, and possibly Maroney and Bush, although I'd want to wait until the end of the season for those two.

Johnson's production has completely fallen off since Roaf/Shields left. He's at 3.4 YPC and 394 yards in 6 games. Jackson is an enigma. I don't know if he's a product of the talent around him. Parker is another grinder, but again: great Oline. I wouldn't take him over Portis. Maroney is fragile to the point of being almost useless. And I'd like to see BUsh as a feature back before declaring him better. I wouldn't trade Portis straight up for any of those guys.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Johnson's production has completely fallen off since Roaf/Shields left. He's at 3.4 YPC and 394 yards in 6 games. Jackson is an enigma. I don't know if he's a product of the talent around him. Parker is another grinder, but again: great Oline. I wouldn't take him over Portis. Maroney is fragile to the point of being almost useless. And I'd like to see BUsh as a feature back before declaring him better. I wouldn't trade Portis straight up for any of those guys.
On talent, I wouldn't trade Portis for Parker either. But you can't dismiss the fact that Portis has at least 400 carries more than any one of those guys (and twice as many as Parker), and that he hasn't looked completely healthy in 2 seasons.

[akhhorus]

On talent, I wouldn't trade Portis for Parker either. But you can't dismiss the fact that Portis has at least 400 carries more than any one of those guys (and twice as many as Parker), and that he hasn't looked completely healthy in 2 seasons.

Portis has been also played 2.5 more seasons than Parker(or any of them, except Johnson) has. I like Parker, but I think if he got away from that Oline, then he's a so-so RB. Parker also fumbles much more than Portis does. Maroney, Bush and Jackson might have more long term potential, but I dunno if I would deal Portis for any of them right now.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Portis has been also played 2.5 more seasons than Parker(or any of them, except Johnson) has. I like Parker, but I think if he got away from that Oline, then he's a so-so RB. Parker also fumbles much more than Portis does. Maroney, Bush and Jackson might have more long term potential, but I dunno if I would deal Portis for any of them right now.
Yeah, that's my point. ;)
I guess that with Maroney (especially), Bush, and to a lesser extent Jackson, it would be a risky trade, but if they have a good year this year, I would definitely make the trade. Portis's health, conditioning, and durability is really starting to become a concern for me.

[smoak]

The guy is great...and I'll bet around 20 NFL teams would trade their top RB straight up for him right now.

Name them, and I'll do the same.

Assuming no financial/cap implications, here is my list (off the top of my head):

1 New England Patriots -- No. Maroney is hurt, but they "plug and play"
2 Dallas Cowboys -- Absolutely, positively not
3 Indianapolis Colts -- Nope
4 Cincinnati Bengals -- Maybe with Rudi hurt, but at the beginning of the season this was a "No".
5 Denver Broncos -- Maybe b/c of the familiarity -- I'll concede Denver
6 Jacksonville Jaguars -- No
7 Cleveland Browns -- Yes
8 Philadelphia Eagles -- No
9 Pittsburgh Steelers -- No
10 Houston Texans -- Sure
11 Minnesota Vikings -- NO!!
12 Green Bay Packers -- Probably, but I'd love to have Wynn
13 Detroit Lions -- Probably not
14 San Diego Chargers -- No way in hell
15 Washington Redskins -- No
16 Arizona Cardinals -- No
17 New York Giants -- Yes
18 Seattle Seahawks -- No
19 Baltimore Ravens -- No
20 Oakland Raiders -- Maybe but I'm going no
21 Miami Dolphins -- Absolutely not
22 New Orleans Saints -- No
23 Carolina Panthers -- No
24 Tennessee Titans -- Yes
25 Tampa Bay Buccaneers -- Yes now that Caddy is out
26 Kansas City Chiefs -- Nope
27 Atlanta Falcons -- Maybe? I'll give you Atl
28 Chicago Bears -- Yes
29 St. Louis Rams -- No
30 New York Jets -- Yes
31 Buffalo Bills -- No
32 San Francisco 49ers --No

[akhhorus]

Yeah, that's my point. ;)

I thought it was about carries? Parker's on pace to beat Portis in carries also, so he's going to have a lot of wear on his tires soon also.

I guess that with Maroney (especially), Bush, and to a lesser extent Jackson, it would be a risky trade, but if they have a good year this year, I would definitely make the trade. Portis's health, conditioning, and durability is really starting to become a concern for me.

When Portis starts missing games due to injury, I'll get worried, but he's producing(not to the levels we would want, I grant, but he'll produce a good season barring injury). And for the record, Reggie Bush has a bigger contract than Portis does ;)

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Name them, and I'll do the same.

Assuming no financial/cap implications, here is my list (off the top of my head):

Carolina, Detroit, Seattle, and the Packers are all definite "yes" IMO.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I thought it was about carries? Parker's on pace to beat Portis in carries also, so he's going to have a lot of wear on his tires soon also.

Yeah, but as of today, October 15th 2007, Parker gives you more good years than Portis does. It doesn't matter who has better numbers at the end of their careers, if I'm making a trade, I want more production from now on.

[jaylen]

Portis is at least making things happen, Betts has been terrible flat out awful.

The line is killing Portis at this point literally. He's taken more hard hits in these 5 games then at any point he's been here he's got stoned at the line more than any back I can rememeber.

To get some of the runs he's gotten has been amazing.

Around the league Alexander when Hutchison left has done nothing.

LJ is struggling bigtime.

The line seems to make all the difference.

Look at What Adrian Peterson is doing running behind Hutchison. He's getting 5 yards before he' getting confronted by defenders.

Alexander misses those days.

What could Portis have done with the holes Betts had the last 7 games or so.

[akhhorus]

Yeah, but as of today, October 15th 2007, Parker gives you more good years than Portis does. It doesn't matter who has better numbers at the end of their careers, if I'm making a trade, I want more production from now on.

Thats a big assumption. If they both play the same amount of games, then yes. But Portis has played through pain and injuries every year of his career. I think that at the end of the day, Portis will have a longer career than Parker will even from today.

[Death_Venom]

I agree with you, but in my eyes, it looks like Portis is pulling himself out the game constantly because he is not in football shape

he looks worn down when he runs 2 times in a row, he starts limping off the field, and then when they interview him during the week, he says there not calling his number. It seems like BS in my eyes.

They need to MAKE him practice all week, get him and the rest of this team into conditioning more and pound the damn ball

Wow-everyone is looking for a scapegoat and now we have found him!!! With the patchwork O-Line we got (whose play is somewhat inconsistent) and one over-paid WR who cant seem to wrap his head arounf the offense I can't see how Portis is to blame for all of our woes.........

[dj_stouty]

Name them, and I'll do the same.

Assuming no financial/cap implications, here is my list (off the top of my head):

1 New England Patriots -- Yes
2 Dallas Cowboys -- Yes
3 Indianapolis Colts -- No
4 Cincinnati Bengals -- Yes
5 Denver Broncos -- Yes
6 Jacksonville Jaguars -- Yes
7 Cleveland Browns -- Yes
8 Philadelphia Eagles -- No
9 Pittsburgh Steelers -- No
10 Houston Texans -- Yes
11 Minnesota Vikings -- No
12 Green Bay Packers -- Yes
13 Detroit Lions -- Yes
14 San Diego Chargers -- No
15 Washington Redskins ------------*
16 Arizona Cardinals -- Yes
17 New York Giants -- Yes
18 Seattle Seahawks -- Yes
19 Baltimore Ravens -- No
20 Oakland Raiders -- Yes
21 Miami Dolphins -- No
22 New Orleans Saints -- No
23 Carolina Panthers -- Yes
24 Tennessee Titans -- Yes
25 Tampa Bay Buccaneers -- Yes
26 Kansas City Chiefs -- No
27 Atlanta Falcons -- Yes
28 Chicago Bears -- Yes
29 St. Louis Rams -- No
30 New York Jets -- Yes
31 Buffalo Bills -- No
32 San Francisco 49ers --No

Above are my 12, Smoak.

You have your proven studs; Jackson, LT, Gore, Addai, Westbrook and LJ.

Then you have your young guns, who are doing well for their teams and there is no need for upgrade, even though their teams are'nt playing well; Bush, Brown, Lynch and Peterson.

Then you have guys like Fast Willie Parker and McGahee who are playing for winners and trading them would be a risk right now.

The only one I sat on the fence for was Dallas' Barber. They really like him and he seems to be a TD stud...but if they really thought he was the real deal, Julious Jones wouldn't be getting so many touches.

[Skins7ny]

:rolleyes: Shocker, why did I know you wouldn't miss another opportunity to dump on the Portis deal(Bailey btw, has looked simply awful and old this year for Denver and teams know it). I don't think it has to do with injuries, since he clearly can still physically run to the outside. I think it has a lot to do with Thomas being on the shelf. Portis looked fine on the offtackles in the Miami and Philly games(until Thomas went out), but since then, he's struggled going into the tackle box. But I'm sure you'll respond with "Well, he's useless since he has to have good blockers to be a good RB" nonsense.


At least I am consistent...:niceday:
I don't think CP is done, and I agree that the problems on the right side of the line are affecting him (and Betts), but you can't ignore the fact that he comes up limping after every third carry and goes to the sidelines. For what we gave up for him, and what we are paying him, he is supposed to be our franchise back. 100-yard games with 20+ carries are supposed to flow pretty regularly around here, and they did the last few games of the year when Ladell was carrying the load. Is it too much to expect Portis to play up to, or at least near the level of Betts last year, if he is everything you have said, and continue to say he is?? He doesn't work out, he doesn't practice with his teammates, doesn't keep himself in game shape and gets preferential treatment in camp. If that didn't happen, I would feel a lot more charitable about him constantly being banged up.

We can blame it on the OL, but only partially. People said that Jansen and Wade were about even last year, which means the difference is Fabini for Thomas. I admit that is a large drop off, especially in run blocking, which is Fabini's weakness and Thomas' strength. But come on.

Right now, I would say that CP is at a crossroads in his career, and the next 11 games will go a long way in determining if he will have the longevity that you have been predicting here, or if we will be parting ways with him in time for the 2009 season.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

1 New England Patriots -- Yes
2 Dallas Cowboys -- Yes
3 Indianapolis Colts -- No
4 Cincinnati Bengals -- Yes
5 Denver Broncos -- Yes
6 Jacksonville Jaguars -- Yes
7 Cleveland Browns -- Yes
8 Philadelphia Eagles -- No
9 Pittsburgh Steelers -- No
10 Houston Texans -- Yes
11 Minnesota Vikings -- No
12 Green Bay Packers -- Yes
13 Detroit Lions -- Yes
14 San Diego Chargers -- No
15 Washington Redskins ------------*
16 Arizona Cardinals -- Yes
17 New York Giants -- Yes
18 Seattle Seahawks -- Yes
19 Baltimore Ravens -- No
20 Oakland Raiders -- Yes
21 Miami Dolphins -- No
22 New Orleans Saints -- No
23 Carolina Panthers -- Yes
24 Tennessee Titans -- Yes
25 Tampa Bay Buccaneers -- Yes
26 Kansas City Chiefs -- No
27 Atlanta Falcons -- Yes
28 Chicago Bears -- Yes
29 St. Louis Rams -- No
30 New York Jets -- Yes
31 Buffalo Bills -- No
32 San Francisco 49ers --No

Above are my 12, Smoak.

You have your proven studs; Jackson, LT, Gore, Addai, Westbrook and LJ.

Then you have your young guns, who are doing well for their teams and there is no need for upgrade, even though their teams are'nt playing well; Bush, Brown, Lynch and Peterson.

Then you have guys like Fast Willie Parker and McGahee who are playing for winners and trading them would be a risk right now.

The only one I sat on the fence for was Dallas' Barber. They really like him and he seems to be a TD stud...but if they really thought he was the real deal, Julious Jones wouldn't be getting so many touches.
I think we have the exact same opinion of Portis right now. My list would be almost identical.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Thats a big assumption. If they both play the same amount of games, then yes. But Portis has played through pain and injuries every year of his career. I think that at the end of the day, Portis will have a longer career than Parker will even from today.
You're right, it is. And we'll probably never know for sure what the truth is because there are just too many elements involved. But, having to make a decision in this exact instant, with Portis having twice as many carries as Parker, them being the same age, both having shown that they can produce big-time behind a good offensive line, and with Portis showing signs that might (repeat: might) lead one to think that he is struggling with keeping 100% healthy throughout a whole season, I would trade Portis straight up for Parker. It would absolutely not be a comfortable decision though.
Wow-everyone is looking for a scapegoat and now we have found him!!! With the patchwork O-Line we got (whose play is somewhat inconsistent) and one over-paid WR who cant seem to wrap his head arounf the offense I can't see how Portis is to blame for all of our woes.........
I don't know if this is intended towards me, but just in case, I wanna clear things up and say that in no way do I think that Portis should be the scapegoat. He has far less responsability on yesterday's loss than Moss does.
I'm just starting to wonder if he is in fact an elite running back anymore. I'm in no way saying that he is not a good running babk.

[akhhorus]

At least I am consistent...

Yes, you are. You consistently do nothing but whine.

I don't think CP is done, and I agree that the problems on the right side of the line are affecting him (and Betts), but you can't ignore the fact that he comes up limping after every third carry and goes to the sidelines.

And he limped around God knows how many times in 2005?

For what we gave up for him, and what we are paying him, he is supposed to be our franchise back.

And he's not? He's on pace for 1400+ total yards this year and 10-12 TDs.

100-yard games with 20+ carries are supposed to flow pretty regularly around here, and they did the last few games of the year when Ladell was carrying the load. Is it too much to expect Portis to play up to, or at least near the level of Betts last year, if he is everything you have said, and continue to say he is??

That Betts run looks more and more like a fluke of Betts playing for a contract and against bad run defenses.

He doesn't work out, he doesn't practice with his teammates, doesn't keep himself in game shape and gets preferential treatment in camp. If that didn't happen, I would feel a lot more charitable about him constantly being banged up.

Huh? He missed most of TC(just about all), but has practiced during the season with his teammates and is in game shape.

We can blame it on the OL, but only partially. People said that Jansen and Wade were about even last year, which means the difference is Fabini for Thomas. I admit that is a large drop off, especially in run blocking, which is Fabini's weakness and Thomas' strength. But come on.

It makes a major difference on the interior runs(which was "my point"), Portis still looks great on those outside runs to the left. Which undermines the theory that Portis is "shot" or "done".

Right now, I would say that CP is at a crossroads in his career, and the next 11 games will go a long way in determining if he will have the longevity that you have been predicting here, or if we will be parting ways with him in time for the 2009 season.

Barring major injuries, or Portis totally falling apart as a player(which hasn't happened yet), he'll be here for as long as Gibbs wants him here.

[firehawk157]

let's just pause this debate and see what happens when we can go into a game with a somewhat decent and static line. I don't think we have played two full games in a row with the same guys at OL. Portis needs to develop chemistry with his line, and the line needs to develop chemistry with itself.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

let's just pause this debate and see what happens when we can go into a game with a somewhat decent and static line. I don't think we have played two full games in a row with the same guys at OL. Portis needs to develop chemistry with his line, and the line needs to develop chemistry with itself.
Yeah, that makes sense. And it's why I was saying in the o-line thread that we simply cannot afford to lose Rabach for any extended period of time.

[Skins7ny]

Akhorus, don't put words in my mouth. I did not say Portis was done.
I don't believe he is done. I do think he is at some kind of crossroads, and I think the posts by most people on this thread indicates that he is at a crossroads at least in the hearts of many fans. We want to see less second-guessing of the coaches and their practice schedule, and we want to see Portis be the bell-cow for what we expect to be a dominant running game. If you want to argue that Fabini for Thomas makes that impossible, I will hear you. But otherwise, my eyes tell me that Portis is not quite that same guy right now. He is on pace for about 1,100 yards rushing without and his YPC is okay (about 4.3). His stats are solid, but I want to see the dominating running game we are used to around here, and I don't see it.

[LATrueRedskin]

I didn't like this arrangement from the beginning and all your points are good ones. However, don't forget that Portis does what he wants to do. I've heard players interviewed say it. Gibbs for some reason gives this him card blanche.

I never liked this arrangement either, simply because Ladell Betts isn't as good as Clinton Portis. But Portis likes to take himself out whenever he wants, and has had a case of the fumbles this year. Honestly, I'm not too pleased with how either one of them is playing. Stick with Portis until Portis can't go anymore. And if Portis doesn't want to run, too bad.

[akhhorus]

Akhorus, don't put words in my mouth. I did not say Portis was done.

Spell my name right.

I don't believe he is done. I do think he is at some kind of crossroads, and I think the posts by most people on this thread indicates that he is at a crossroads at least in the hearts of many fans.

To say he's at a "crossroads" implies that he has at least the probable potential of being finished. Based on his play, I don't see how that conclusion can be reached.

We want to see less second-guessing of the coaches and their practice schedule, and we want to see Portis be the bell-cow for what we expect to be a dominant running game. If you want to argue that Fabini for Thomas makes that impossible, I will hear you.

Read what I wrote please. I said Portis has struggled running inside since Thomas went down(Betts has struggled period, no matter who's on the Oline). Portis still looks fine running outside to the left, so he's not some lazy or broken runner.

But otherwise, my eyes tell me that Portis is not quite that same guy right now. He is on pace for about 1,100 yards rushing without and his YPC is okay (about 4.3). His stats are solid, but I want to see the dominating running game we are used to around here, and I don't see it.

I want to know how much of that is the devestation of the Oline due to injuries, how much of it is less running in the offense and how much is Portis' limitations. The fact that Portis still shows flashes of brilliance even running to the side with the 2 healthy Olinemen make me believe that its the first reason. The fact that Betts(somehow) looks even worse when he runs all but confirms this.

[firehawk157]

I never liked this arrangement either, simply because Ladell Betts isn't as good as Clinton Portis. But Portis likes to take himself out whenever he wants, and has had a case of the fumbles this year. Honestly, I'm not too pleased with how either one of them is playing. Stick with Portis until Portis can't go anymore. And if Portis doesn't want to run, too bad.

That's a fine line to walk right there. Sure, we'd all love to have Portis in there every play and so on, but if the dude isn't in shape, or is hurting, not only do you have a marginally effective back in and (in the case of soreness where he comes off limping) risk injury, a lot of other players look at it and say, wow, they don't care at all about my health and well-being. Thus, who would want to go up for the tough catch, or stand in there to make the tough throw knowing the coaching staff/FO doesn't care if you get injured and will hang you out to dry? It's easy for us to sit here and say sacrifice your body for the team, we don't feel any pain.

OTOH though, you can't let Portis just take practices and plays off for no other reason than he's just uncomfortable or a little tired. That sends the message that if you've done anything for the franchise in the last 3 years, you can do whatever you want. A fine line...

[firehawk157]

I agree with some of this. There are very few backs in the history of the NFL that can run with a patchwork OL like we are playing now. Barry Sanders was one of them. Do you think Riggins would do as well as he did if he was getting hit or having to make his first cut 2 yards behind the LOS? How about when Emmitt Smith did it? Barry Sanders is the exception because he was probably the most elusive player to ever play the game.

[silverspring]

Some of portis' issues could be blamed on the oline but i think for the most part that is a cop out. The oline is not fumbling the ball. The oline being crappy isn't what is causing portis to need his own personal oxygen tank on the sideline. I like the concept of the interchangeable back system but i don't see how any running back would take themselves out of the game so often. Star players shouldn't want to come out of the game at all much less every couple plays - even in the first half.

I do agree that in a way portis is coming to a crossroads in his career. He is getting older and if he wants to stay a top running back in the nfl he needs to start practicing like a professional and taking all the non-game day work as seriously as he takes game day. The more you practice the more you re-enforce that muscle memory. Also if he wants to be a team leader he should do it by example and that means on the practice field and in the film room. However i don't think that gibbs should be giving portis such a long leash.

[akhhorus]

Some of portis' issues could be blamed on the oline but i think for the most part that is a cop out. The oline is not fumbling the ball.

The oline is responsible when Portis has to face 5 defenders by himself with no blockers. His fumble against the Packers, he was gang tackled by the LBs.

The oline being crappy isn't what is causing portis to need his own personal oxygen tank on the sideline.

I'm sorry, but this is crap. Cooley, Moss, ARE and most skill position players in the NFL uses oxygen from a tank on the sidelines.


I do agree that in a way portis is coming to a crossroads in his career. He is getting older and if he wants to stay a top running back in the nfl he needs to start practicing like a professional and taking all the non-game day work as seriously as he takes game day. The more you practice the more you re-enforce that muscle memory. Also if he wants to be a team leader he should do it by example and that means on the practice field and in the film room. However i don't think that gibbs should be giving portis such a long leash.

Portis does practice every week, as far as any knows, Portis is in the film room.

[Skins7ny]

Some of portis' issues could be blamed on the oline but i think for the most part that is a cop out. The oline is not fumbling the ball. The oline being crappy isn't what is causing portis to need his own personal oxygen tank on the sideline. I like the concept of the interchangeable back system but i don't see how any running back would take themselves out of the game so often. Star players shouldn't want to come out of the game at all much less every couple plays - even in the first half.

I do agree that in a way portis is coming to a crossroads in his career. He is getting older and if he wants to stay a top running back in the nfl he needs to start practicing like a professional and taking all the non-game day work as seriously as he takes game day. The more you practice the more you re-enforce that muscle memory. Also if he wants to be a team leader he should do it by example and that means on the practice field and in the film room. However i don't think that gibbs should be giving portis such a long leash.

I think you have hit it on the head. As far as being a team leader goes, however, I think that ship has sailed, at least on this team. Team leaders don't publicly question their coaches' game plan or practice schedule, and they sure as hell don't get to skip pre-season and decide when they come out of games.
That's not leadership. By the quotes I hear/see coming out of the Park, the impression I get is that he is viewed by many as a somewhat immature, somewhat funny charachter, who is respected for what he does on the field.

Originally posted by akhhorus
Spell my name right.
It would be a lot easier to remember to spell your name right if I knew what the hell it meant!

[akhhorus]

It would be a lot easier to remember to spell your name right if I knew what the hell it meant!

:rolleyes: Weak out.

[silverspring]

The oline is responsible when Portis has to face 5 defenders by himself with no blockers. His fumble against the Packers, he was gang tackled by the LBs.

It shouldn't matter if you get gang tackled or not you have to protect the football. All rbs fumble at some point, but it seems like clinton is starting a bad trend these days.


I'm sorry, but this is crap. Cooley, Moss, ARE and most skill position players in the NFL uses oxygen from a tank on the sidelines.

This is not crap. Yes many nfl players use oxygen, but they don't have to use it every couple downs. The point to all this isn't that I think it is bad that portis is using oxygen but rather his heavy use of oxygen while already constantly getting spelled by betts is just another indicator that he seems out of shape.


Portis does practice every week, as far as any knows, Portis is in the film room.

I am sure portis practices every week to some extent, but we have all heard portis himself, gibbs and others blatantly talk about how portis is not a practice guy and does not like practice. Portis clearly does not take practice preparation as seriously as he could. I think if portis started taking practice and conditioning more seriously we would see an overall improvement in the consistency of his play, less injuries and i think it would generally extend the time he remains a top back in the league.

[akhhorus]

It shouldn't matter if you get gang tackled or not you have to protect the football. All rbs fumble at some point, but it seems like clinton is starting a bad trend these days.

Portis always has a run 2-3 games where he fumbles, then it ceases. He had this in 04, in 05, in 06 and with Denver.

This is not crap. Yes many nfl players use oxygen, but they don't have to use it every couple downs. The point to all this isn't that I think it is bad that portis is using oxygen but rather his heavy use of oxygen while already constantly getting spelled by betts is just another indicator that he seems out of shape.

1-I see players using it all the time on the sidelines. Portis' use doesn't seem to be excessive in any way. I've seen Cooley using it more than Portis is. I guess he's at a crossroads in his career? :rolleyes:
2-Betts is spelling him? I'm seeing less and less of Betts out there every week and more and more of Portis.
3-Portis is out of shape is a BS attack on him. Even you want to say that he was missing TC, he sure looked fast and quick against Miami in week 1. So, despite playing each week, he's out of shape? Makes zero sense.

I am sure portis practices every week to some extent, but we have all heard portis himself, gibbs and others blatantly talk about how portis is not a practice guy and does not like practice. Portis clearly does not take practice preparation as seriously as he could. I think if portis started taking practice and conditioning more seriously we would see an overall improvement in the consistency of his play, less injuries and i think it would generally extend the time he remains a top back in the league.

And yet, outside of this past TC(where he might have been injured), you never hear about Portis skipping practice or has bad practice habits.

[LATrueRedskin]

That's a fine line to walk right there. Sure, we'd all love to have Portis in there every play and so on, but if the dude isn't in shape, or is hurting, not only do you have a marginally effective back in and (in the case of soreness where he comes off limping) risk injury, a lot of other players look at it and say, wow, they don't care at all about my health and well-being. Thus, who would want to go up for the tough catch, or stand in there to make the tough throw knowing the coaching staff/FO doesn't care if you get injured and will hang you out to dry? It's easy for us to sit here and say sacrifice your body for the team, we don't feel any pain.

OTOH though, you can't let Portis just take practices and plays off for no other reason than he's just uncomfortable or a little tired. That sends the message that if you've done anything for the franchise in the last 3 years, you can do whatever you want. A fine line...

Portis has had the entire training camp and preseason to relax and take it easy. He has most of the practice week to relax and take it easy. He should be fresh. I'm tired of seeing him run off the field and take a breather so Betts can get in, gain a yard, and fall down. We're simply not as effective when he's not in the game. This two-back system is not taking us anywhere. Yeah, he's hurting, but so is everybody else.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

i dont think the coaches have bought into that concept..and i dont think that portis fumbling has helped it either..
his fumbling hasn't helped, but its not like betts hasn't had fumbilitis issues before.

It's almost exactly that.
really? it doesnt seem like it. maybe that's because CP isnt getting the ball more than 20 times a game anymore.

[lpunder414]

Not to dismount the miscues of this team, but I feel a little better knowing that if we wouldve handled the ball better(which includes fumbles and dropped passes) in the two losses, we would be looking at a 5-0 record instead of 3-2.

Yes thats only if, but look back at the past couple of years, we had so many problems with the entire team(not just the offense) and we are in much better shape than what we have been in the past. Our defense has an identity and they are exceling.

The two guys that seem to be having the most ballhandling problems, moss and portis, are perrenial all-stars in this league and chances are these guys will find a way to put these miscues behind them.

Nevertheless, we are 3-2 after the first 5 and that leaves us in decent shape for the remaining 11 games. And I beleive that these miscues that were having now are only going to be beneficial to the team down the road(as long as we act on the problems and get tough mentally). We all expected this team to have their down's at some point in time, and I think that it's best that these guys get a chin-check early in the season rather than late when everyone's trying to make their playoff push. Dont get me wrong, by no means am I justifying the loss, but it's definitely better to acknowledge your problem early on rather than late. But in anycase HTTR!!!

[shally]

his fumbling hasn't helped, but its not like betts hasn't had fumbilitis issues before.


really? it doesnt seem like it. maybe that's because CP isnt getting the ball more than 20 times a game anymore.

i think that CP has managed to make the coaches forget about betts' fumbles last year, and throughout his career.. but some of it is that betts is a quietly hard worker (with substantially less talent) whereas CP tends to pop off

that said, i think the team needs the ball in the hands of portis as often as possible. he has the capability still of making the special play. betts doesnt and never will

having a beaten down offensive line has hurt a lot

[SpicyMcHaggis]

his fumbling hasn't helped, but its not like betts hasn't had fumbilitis issues before.


really? it doesnt seem like it. maybe that's because CP isnt getting the ball more than 20 times a game anymore.
It's 86-41 in Portis's favor.

You know, I was thinking the exact same thing when looking at the stats yesterday. The Skins have an odd combination of A)never handing the ball off to their started more than 20 times per game B)having the 5th most rushing attemps per game in the NFL and C)handing the ball to the backup less than half the times they hand it off to the starter.
The reason for this is Sellers. He is getting more and more involved in the running game, with FAR better results so far than what Betts is having. He has a higher average, is better in short yardage situations, and even has a longer longest run. Another reason is that Cammbell is getting in his fair share of scrambles as well.
But what is really killing our running game is Betts. He has been just awful. What I would do if I were the Skins is reduce his role by far and give the majority of his carries to Sellers, who brings much more power and a real change of pace when he comes in.
In order to be remotely effective, Betts has to get at least 15 carries, which happened only in Week 1, in which he wasn't as awful (just mediocre). But to do that, you take them away from Portis, and that's not good because 1)Portis is better and 2)his contract doesn't allow it.
So since Sellers is more effeective coming in here and there, just do that, and try to trade Betts to a RB-needy team, and next year, like Akh intelligently proposed, try to find a good power back to put behind Portis. I was watching the Steelers highlights, and a guy like Davenport would be very good for example.

[smoak]

Carolina, Detroit, Seattle, and the Packers are all definite "yes" IMO.

I have yet to see the Panthers this year, but what little I've seen od Deangelo Williams and an oft-injured Alexander, I would consider taking taking them both over Portis. I love Clinton and whether it is injury or work ethic, he has no EXPLOSION!

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I have yet to see the Panthers this year, but what little I've seen od Deangelo Williams and an oft-injured Alexander, I would consider taking taking them both over Portis. I love Clinton and whether it is injury or work ethic, he has no EXPLOSION!

Right now I agree with this statement. And it is backed up by his numbers recently.
However, you can't dismiss the fact that Alexander is 31 years old and has LOTS of mileage on him (other than being a bit on the soft side).
As for Williams, he is currently backing up DeShaun Foster, in what is a pretty efficient RB duo over there in Carolina. But I wouldn't trade Clinton for either one of them. I would however trade Betts for either one in a heartbeat.

By the way, if you wnan see explosion, go back and look at the highlights of the Vikings-Bears game, in particular Peterson's last kickoff return that set up the game winning FG. Holy cow..he went from his own 20 yard line to midfield in about 1.5 seconds. That dude is unreal.

[skins74]

I totally agree with this thread and they are most definitely NOT interchangeable! Clinton needs to stop fumbling though.

[Skins-R-Us]

Is it just me or does anyone else think Portis has lost it or never really had it. I was watching some other games and highlights this weekend and when you see backs like LT and Adrienne Peterson or even Jerious Norwood and a few others run it makes me wonder what we have. These other backs hit the hole hard, make jukes and other moves and run well in the open field.

Portis always looks like he is falling forward or off balance when he is running, even in the open field. It only takes the slightest contact and he falls down. Plus the way he holds the ball like a loaf of bread is pathetic. What is that?

He has heart when he plays, he is a good blocker, but I am really starting to doubt his running ability. He had a great season or two in Denver, because they were Denver and had a great run blocking line and scheme. He had one good season with us because we over worked the hell out of him.

Was Peterson available when we picked LaRon?

That is just my observation, what do you think?

[Skins7ny]

I am sure portis practices every week to some extent, but we have all heard portis himself, gibbs and others blatantly talk about how portis is not a practice guy and does not like practice. Portis clearly does not take practice preparation as seriously as he could. I think if portis started taking practice and conditioning more seriously we would see an overall improvement in the consistency of his play, less injuries and i think it would generally extend the time he remains a top back in the league.
As far as the longevity of his career, I think that ship has sailed already. He needed to start taking better care of his body from a younger age, before he took all those hits. He has a lot of carries under his belt. With most smaller RBs, once they start getting these frequent minor injuries, it is pretty rare that they just recover and go on to carry the load for several more years at relatively excellent health. It could happen for Clinton, but I wouldn't bet the mortgage on it at this point. His trajectory seems to be downward, healthwise. I would bet conditioning has something to do with it, dating back several years. It also seems to me that when he gets outside, his speed is not what it used to be. His accelaration is definitely a little bit diminished.
And yet, outside of this past TC(where he might have been injured), you never hear about Portis skipping practice or has bad practice habits.
False. Santana Moss himself unwittingly outed Portis two years a year or two ago when he complimented Portis on his ability to play without working out. He said basically that Portis is so naturally talented, he can perform at a high level without working hard in practice.

I pointed it out on one of the threads when it happened, and I would bet that you responded to defend CP at the time. When I have time I will look it up.

[dj_stouty]

Is it just me or does anyone else think Portis has lost it or never really had it. I was watching some other games and highlights this weekend and when you see backs like LT and Adrienne Peterson or even Jerious Norwood and a few others run it makes me wonder what we have. These other backs hit the hole hard, make jukes and other moves and run well in the open field.

Portis always looks like he is falling forward or off balance when he is running, even in the open field. It only takes the slightest contact and he falls down. Plus the way he holds the ball like a loaf of bread is pathetic. What is that?

He has heart when he plays, he is a good blocker, but I am really starting to doubt his running ability. He had a great season or two in Denver, because they were Denver and had a great run blocking line and scheme. He had one good season with us because we over worked the hell out of him.

Was Peterson available when we picked LaRon?

That is just my observation, what do you think?

Having three 1,500-yard rushing seasons under your belt is not a fluke.

Yes, Peterson was available, but the Redskins already had too much money invested in their top 2 RBs. Drafting a RB when defensive help was severely needed would have been criminal.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

Is it just me or does anyone else think Portis has lost it or never really had it. I was watching some other games and highlights this weekend and when you see backs like LT and Adrienne Peterson or even Jerious Norwood and a few others run it makes me wonder what we have. These other backs hit the hole hard, make jukes and other moves and run well in the open field.

Portis always looks like he is falling forward or off balance when he is running, even in the open field. It only takes the slightest contact and he falls down. Plus the way he holds the ball like a loaf of bread is pathetic. What is that?

He has heart when he plays, he is a good blocker, but I am really starting to doubt his running ability. He had a great season or two in Denver, because they were Denver and had a great run blocking line and scheme. He had one good season with us because we over worked the hell out of him.

Was Peterson available when we picked LaRon?

That is just my observation, what do you think?
Yes. He was the player picked after Landry.

(Disclaimer: I am NOT advocating that we should have picked Peterson, and I disagree with much of what is said in the quoted post)

[akhhorus]

False. Santana Moss himself unwittingly outed Portis two years a year or two ago when he complimented Portis on his ability to play without working out. He said basically that Portis is so naturally talented, he can perform at a high level without working hard in practice.

I pointed it out on one of the threads when it happened, and I would bet that you responded to defend CP at the time. When I have time I will look it up.

There was a Post article which said that Portis sometimes practices hard and sometimes doesn't. But it also says this:

"On a given day, Gibbs would say Portis practiced. Later that day, Portis would say he hadn't practiced in days."

So, I don't think there's any clarity on what is going on. I don't think you can buy whats coming from either side(Portis or Gibbs) on that then. And this is irrelevant, the issue that Portis is being criticized for this year is that he's "not practicing" and supposedly is "out of shape" because of it. Which simply isn't true.

[Skins-R-Us]

Yes. He was the player picked after Landry.

(Disclaimer: I am NOT advocating that we should have picked Peterson, and I disagree with much of what is said in the quoted post)

So you think he runs confidently, looks balanced and steady, has a good burst and reads holes well, makes good moves to juke defenders? Also that he doesn't carry the ball in front of him like a loaf of bread and when he does tuck it in he usually puts it in the wrong arm so he can't stiff arm someone. Please point me to some highlights that prove me wrong.

[shally]

So you think he runs confidently, looks balanced and steady, has a good burst and reads holes well, makes good moves to juke defenders? Also that he doesn't carry the ball in front of him like a loaf of bread and when he does tuck it in he usually puts it in the wrong arm so he can't stiff arm someone. Please point me to some highlights that prove me wrong.


perhaps if had a fully functioning o line in front of him things would be different ???

[Skins-R-Us]

I am not talking about blocking that is an issue in itself. Even in open field he does not seem to run well, he always looks like he is ready to fall down. Something just doesn't look right and I don't know if it is just this last year or so or if he always ran like that. Not to mention carrying the ball like a show off corner back running a return back. I am just saying I am noticing that quite a few backs are looking technically much more proficient then our main guy. It could be practice, conditioning, injury, attitutde, all of the above, but it does not look real good in my opinion.

[shally]

This bothered me in the offseason when I heard it was coming, the whole, "Clinton runs a couple, Betts runs a couple" thing.

It looks fine with the naked eye. Two 1,000 yard backs trading off carries, staying fresh. The only problem is, it doesn't work. At least not with us.

I have never liked this system, because it keeps EITHER back from getting into a groove, gaining momentum and building off that momentum.

In '05, Portis was the man, and he had a monster year, only getting stronger as the season wore on. In '06, when Betts was the man, he was incredible and was running with abandon.

Now, neither back is doing anything of note whatsoever except fumbling and getting stuffed behind the line on crucial fourth down plays. In fact, Portis has gone 10 games straight without 100 yards rushing. That is pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.

Portis showed flashes of his former greatness yesterday, with some great cut back running at times. But then? He comes out of the game, no momentum is built.

I say it's time to stop this crap. I say it's time to tell Portis, "Look, you're our guy. Expect to carry the ball until your tongue falls out and to carry it at least 25 times a game. And you WILL NOT take yourself out of the game unless you're injured. You don't come out 'till we say you come out."

The entire offense lacks an identity, and how could it NOT, with guys taking themselves out of the game, confusion over who should be in on this play or that play. If they're not going to adopt an identity, it's time to force one on them. Make Portis THE back and feed him. And if he goes down or can't handle it, then try it with Betts. We are far from a team that can throw to set up the run.

your last sentence says it all for me.. but with all the losses to the o line i think we are gonna struggle no matter who is in there at RB

[Hr fan]

I have yet to see the Panthers this year, but what little I've seen od Deangelo Williams and an oft-injured Alexander, I would consider taking taking them both over Portis. I love Clinton and whether it is injury or work ethic, he has no EXPLOSION!

About the O line problems, there has rarely been a hole to explode through. CP is not a yards after contact back, he is a back that makes you miss when he gets into the secondary.

As to the question of this thread, at least under current conditions the backs are clearly not interchangeable. Maybe if the O line can get up to last year's standard, but not now.

[Redskin4Life]

About the O line problems, there has rarely been a hole to explode through. CP is not a yards after contact back, he is a back that makes you miss when he gets into the secondary.

As to the question of this thread, at least under current conditions the backs are clearly not interchangeable. Maybe if the O line can get up to last year's standard, but not now.
I agree with this post completely....

We have to all remember this... last year Betts had the starting OLine we intended to have during his great run last year. This year we've lost as many as 6 OLinemen to injury (3 guys that weren't with us last year are starters after Week 2). In fact, we had 4 new guys playing OLine by the end of the game in Green Bay.

When teams like the Rams and the Eagles struggle or fall apart after losing ONE OLinemen, how can we blame the poor RB attack we have now on Portis/Betts with so many injuries to our line???

One thing I know for sure is that Buges is back to being the master of the OL. Hopefully he'll be able to find another diamond in the rough out there....

[Skins7ny]

There was a Post article which said that Portis sometimes practices hard and sometimes doesn't. But it also says this:

"On a given day, Gibbs would say Portis practiced. Later that day, Portis would say he hadn't practiced in days."

So, I don't think there's any clarity on what is going on. I don't think you can buy whats coming from either side(Portis or Gibbs) on that then. And this is irrelevant, the issue that Portis is being criticized for this year is that he's "not practicing" and supposedly is "out of shape" because of it. Which simply isn't true.

You totally ignored my post, LOL.
I was not referring to Portis or Gibbs in the Post.
I was referring to a direct quote by Portis' buddy Santana Moss,
in which he said, on camera, that Portis is so talented that he
performs great without even practicing hard.

[akhhorus]

You totally ignored my post, LOL.
I was not referring to Portis or Gibbs in the Post.
I was referring to a direct quote by Portis' buddy Santana Moss,
in which he said, on camera, that Portis is so talented that he
performs great without even practicing hard.

I did a search of the board for what you were talking about. In a mock draft thread, you referred to it in a post/thread as being a week beforehand. The only thread on Portis' practice habits I could find from anywhere near that time period didn't mention Moss at all. There was a prominent article about Portis' practicing and his injuries last year, which you commented in(and only really complained about Skins' officials talking to the Post).

And its ironically hilarious that you're criticizing me for ignoring your post, when you've done the same to me in this thread.